John Deere Garden Tractors: Gas vs Diesel?

The third of three videos dealing with the comparison of gas and diesel in lawn and garden tractors. I compare three sets of John Deere tractors, their gas engine and diesel engine in the same model line.

[@troyriderzsquad2158]

You probably get this question a lot. My wife and I bought our home with 6 acres. It’s all grass with a few trees. The previous owner let me keep his John Deere LX176 w a 38” deck. Problem is it was taking me about 6 hrs to cut my grass. A couple months ago I bought a Craftsman DYT4000 for $300 dls it was a friend of mine. Now it’s only taking us about 4 hrs to cut the grass with my wife on the John Deere and me in the Craftsman. Question is… I want to get a bigger more versatile tractor, I’ve been looking at a JD 455. The guy wants $3000 for it. What tractor should I get? I’d love to be able to put a front loader on my machine at least maybe a sprayer in the back. I wish I could afford a 1025R but it’s out of my budget. Thank you. New subscriber here.

[@FloridaDeere]

Thanks for watching and subscribing Troy. A 455 is an excellent tractor. Most that I have seen come with a 60" and it probably mows faster than either of those machines on top of the deck being larger. Hours can be important, but I find that a well-maintained tractor with higher hours is better than a lower hour example that has been neglected. $3000 isn't a bad price for a well-maintained 455. I had found the 430, LGT16D and my 1023E barely drink their fuel and go many hours before refills and are very reliable. I think the 455 was a bit more thirsty but still better than a 445, which is still a good tractor. What area are you in, could I see the tractor? Also, if you wanted to communicate better, I can also be found at Florida Deere on facebook. 6 acres is a lot for any of those tractors though. That's almost 2R and 3E territory. You can definitely find a loader if you are patient and surf the CL's and Marketplace ads.

[@troyriderzsquad2158]

@@FloridaDeere Thank you so much for the quick reply. I just sent you a friend request in FB. I’m in Woodstock, IL. It’s about 75 miles north west from Chicago. I really don’t know much about tractors. A neighbor told me I should at least get a 500 and up series. But again I don’t know much about tractors. I want to be able to do other things than just cutting my grass with my tractor. I got some gravel that I’d like to spread out and be able to use a sprayer on it. Just do other things. I lived in the city for too long and I just want to do things out here. Have my own garden, grow my own vegetables and stuff.

[@FloridaDeere]

@@troyriderzsquad2158 Current series, you want an X570 or above. The older ones that are similar are the GT and GX series, GT225/235/245 and GX 325/335/345 and diesel 355. Those are all belt driven and will be late 90's, early 2000's. Shaft drive will be 140's 60's and 70's, then 300 series 312-317, then later 300 series like the 318 322 330 and 332, larger variant would be 400 in the 70's and 420 and the 430 in the 80's and early 90's, then they gave way to the 425/445/455 series, which was a huge step up. You need had the potential for a 540 rear PTO, pedal hydrostatic control, no more hand control and you had on-board hydraulics for things like a loader. The 455 you spoke about is a top of the line tractor, very sought after if on good shape. Lots of attachments available. And if you couldn't find a 40 loader for it, there's a company called CTC loaders that makes aftermarket, a bit pricey though $$$. Stay away from Home Depot and Lowes tractors. They were price pointed for that market and while I don't want to say junk....they are compared to "real" John Deeres.

[@FloridaDeere]

@@troyriderzsquad2158 Also watch some of MrrBeef's youtube channel. He has a lot of great content and is very knowledgeable. But I'd be happy to answer any questions I could. GN.

[@BeADad2447]

1. Fence 5.5 acres and get goats! Get a zero turn for half acre. 2. Get the largest tractor you can afford with a shredder. 3. Get the biggest zero turn you can afford. 4. Get the biggest 400 series. Just found a 455 60 inch mower(550 bucks) pick it up sat.

[@HumbleHaymakers]

That was a great video…👍

[@jesseamaya4594]

Oh yeah, I use ethanol free in all my small engines. Add some marvel mystery oil to the can when I fill it at the pump. Been using hot shot diesel additive to my diesel and have noticed a difference in the 1025r, bit more power and a bit less fuel used. Just got a rather neglected 455 and just mowed for the first time with it today and I love it. Has aws and the 60 deck and it just goes.

[@FloridaDeere]

We apparently have similar tastes in tractors. I've had my 1023E for about 4 years now, had a 445 before that, but sold it in 2019. I just picked up a 455 AWS as well, that is my video mule at the moment going over the issues and fixes I'm performing on that including getting the all wheel steering issues ironed out. Overall, it wasn't terribly neglected, but it's not up to my standard of maintenance yet, so I have a video series on a transmission swap and the next one oout (maybe) will be on the front end of the steering unit. There are two housing on the left side of the frame, one is good, the front housing however, I'm replacing bearings, a spacer and a nut and ring clip to tighten it up good. I also replaced the tie rod end ball joints on nearly everything forward of the rear axle. Mine is only a 54" deck though, both for the 455 and 1023E. Thanks for watching.

[@robertmoulton2656]

The primary difference between 425 and 445 was 425s are all Carbureted and 445s are all fuel injected . Tire size is generally just a dealer option choice .

[@FloridaDeere]

Primary difference yes, but seat, pto hp, couplers and later versions were tires. Thanks for watching.

[@michaelbenoit248]

The new diesel fuel is low sulfur content since 2006. Well that sulfur they removed in the diesel helps lubricate everything in the injection system, & in the combustion chamber. Well the old mechanical injection systems on diesels need that sulfur that was removed from the fuel. The lack of sulfur will make the engine use more fuel sadly. If you add a quart or two of oil into ur jerry can of diesel for ur tractor it make a noticeable amount of difference in starting, it’ll run quieter, use less fuel, plus it’s just better for your IP. You can use clean engine oil, atf, or a fuel cleaner like Diesel Kleen that sometimes has a Ctane booster in it.

[@FloridaDeere]

Yeah I've heard it isn't the sulfur that made it lubricity but the process in taking out the sulfur that did the fuel in requiring extra additives which I use for that and as a cetane booster, so my diesel buddie tell me. But I am surely no diesel expert. I do know they get way better economy than gas in comparable tractors. Thanks for watching.

[@cs-gj3yf]

DO NOT run atf, it will lock up the pumps plungers and barrels, the fuel has just enough lube in it now to not stick the plungers, ask me how i know

[@michaelbenoit248]

@@cs-gj3yf , explain to me how putting ATF in an old Diesel makes it run better. ATF in an old diesel is an old trick to reducing friction, & cleaning injectors. Not sure what ur smoking, but you’re wrong. To run ATF it needs to be filtered to 2 microns. Do that, & no issues.

[@cs-gj3yf]

@@michaelbenoit248 why do it that way when you can buy fuel system cleaning stuff? atf is hard on stuff

[@ronaldayers6661]

Lucked up and got my hands on an 1130hr 332. I will die owning it.

[@FloridaDeere]

They are cool little tractor for sure. Thanks for watching.

[@codyshearer7626]

Off road diesel is much cheaper so i always use it in my diesel tractors.

[@FloridaDeere]

Yes, I have heard that by many. I may need to research where to buy it. Probably boat marinas maybe? Thanks for watching.

[@codyshearer7626]

@@FloridaDeere depends on where you live, I live in a rural area with lots of farmers so all the local gas stations have it.

[@FloridaDeere]

@@codyshearer7626 Our area used to be more rural, like so many, but we aren't even close anymore, lots and lots of urban and suburban sprawl in the past 20-30 years, so hardly any of ours have it.

[@Georgiagreen317]

It's just not taxed. And it is dyed. Better not find it in your Duromax or Cummins.

[@hugoglenn9741]

@@FloridaDeere forget Marinas, always more costly than regular gas station whether it’s unleaded or diesel. This is unless you pick certain high volume marinas and load up large sport fishers with a captains license

[@95rman]

Good points. I really wanted the 332 for the torque and longevity. I ended up with the 322 based on condition and price. It does seem to making some weird vibrations in the front .

[@FloridaDeere]

Yeah, those in the picture...well I guess the whole video were my buddy's, he actually had both. I on the other hand only have a 322, which I like just fine. I wouldn't mind getting a 332 for one reason and really one reason only, I also have a 1023E and 455 and it'd be nice to use the same fuel for all three (keepers) tractors. Just FYI, they all vibrate like hell at idle, I think it's a 3 cylinder inline thing. Once advanced up, they run pretty smooth. I had a Shibaura in a Ford LGT16D as well, also vibrated like crazy at idle, also a I-3, diesel. Beyond that just check all your shields and other hardware, probably something easy to fix. I always go with easy and cheap first, then advance myself up to more expensive repairs. Thanks for watching.

[@95rman]

@@FloridaDeere Thank you for the lengthy response. I need to look everything over really well. Seems to run pretty good. Just has a different feel from my 318.

[@FloridaDeere]

@@95rman 🤣🤣Sorry about that man, yep for sure different than a 318.

[@edwarddinardo2830]

Have my eye on a 1991 420 with craftsman bucket up front, blade, 60 deck under 600 hrs, no 3 point. Would u still buy one? Only to be used around house for moving things and maybe backup for zero turn,,,asking 1800...Oh! can I use a leaf catcher without the motorized system?

[@FloridaDeere]

Wow Edward, under 600 hours is nice. I'd say if the machine also looks like it has under 600 hours, $1800 wouldn't be bad at all. Having extras is also nice. Another key thing is the deck, what condition is the deck in? If all checks out well, give him a slightly lower offer and work the best deal out you can. That is definitely not crazy money for a tractor with low hours and that was a very late model 420, so P220 engine and probably as good as 420's got. I certainly don't have a use for one at this time, but a very nice one...I'd still have an issue passing it up. Thanks for watching man.

[@noelstractors-firewood57]

Another thing that was not mentioned in this video was, the 420,430 have two range transmissions. And the 445,455 do not. Do you see any benefits with the two range compared to one range. And I understand that this topic was not on your list for this video, I’m just wondering.

[@FloridaDeere]

Yeah, certainly not the main topic here, but thanks for asking. I would say the low range would be good for loader work, maybe heavy duty snow blowing work on hilly areas, other than that, I would suspect the 2-speed is more an item of convenience or preference. But definitely loader work with the traction lock feature too, those items would greatly help if you had a loader. Thanks for watching Noel.

[@jonbraddock5545]

It may be state to state but You can run off-road diesel and save a bit.

[@noelstractors-firewood57]

Great video. I have a 1970 John Deere 140H3 in my collection. Question on the loaders in the video. Why do the posts extend upward at the pivot point for the loader. ? Just in front of the driver.

[@FloridaDeere]

If you are speaking about the 40 on the 445, I think that was John Deere's attempt at a ROPS without the tractor have a ROPS I guess.

[@noelstractors-firewood57]

Florida Deere ahh that makes sense. I couldn’t remember loader number, thanks.

[@FloridaDeere]

@@noelstractors-firewood57 Do you have a loader on your 140?

[@noelstractors-firewood57]

Florida Deere no I don’t. Would like to have thou. Some day I might make one like I did on my MF 12 tractor.

[@dawsonsilvers908]

Do you know where to get attachments for a 332

[@FloridaDeere]

Facebook Marketplace and Craigslist are the best places to find good deals. Some dealers may occasionally have them, but it's rare for the most part. Thanks for watching.

[@tomsanders9491]

Do you have any leads on a radiator for a 1994 3 cyl Yanmar in my 332?

[@FloridaDeere]

Unfortunately Tom, I do not. I have a buddy that does a lot of work on 400 series stuff, but I think all his stuff is 430 or 4X5 series stuff, unless there is some parts compatibility with a 332. Thanks for watching and I hope you find one soon. Any chance you can get it rebuilt at a radiator shop?

[@FloridaDeere]

Tom, I just saw this on facebook in the IN area, he's parting a 332 out. Hopefully you can find the search. I'm assuming if I can find it from Florida, you could track it down as well🤷‍♂

[@tomsanders9491]

@@FloridaDeere Thanks. I check it out

[@chet9055]

U should do the 430

[@FloridaDeere]

Well, while I have owned both a 430 and a 420, I did not own them at the same time nor during the time period I had done this video, so no luck there, but that would be a great comparison someday maybe. Thanks for watching.

[@chet9055]

@@FloridaDeere what do u think of the 430

[@FloridaDeere]

@@chet9055 Ha, it's really cool but I didn't think it was an easy tractor to work with. Awesome engine, lots of heft, but ergonomically the 445 I had put it to shame, which will be blasphemous to many Deere folks, but it's true, I had both, didn't have a reason outside of that to like or dislike either. The 430 has a strong following, but the move in the early 90's to the 4X5 series was huge step forward. The earlier 300 and 400 series tractors were great but lacked the foot pedal and a level of smoothnes later models had. Just my $.02

[@williamriley2528]

Operating costs are operating costs... you have to include ALL your operating costs...!

[@chase5896]

Back when gas was sortof cheap

[@FloridaDeere]

The video wasn't that long ago, plus non-ethanol gas is still more expensive than diesel and it's what I'd run in a gas motor for lawn equipment anyway. However, it does take a long time to recoup the initial cost, buying used is also a good strategy I think. Thanks for watching.

[@chase5896]

@@FloridaDeere well by me non-ethanol and diesel are way closer. I think diesel is more expensive right now. I would rather have a diesel, but you're not making as much money back anymore. I would love to buy a diesel mower, but just not in my budget right now. I have a d130, and it works good for me. Maybe someday

[@FloridaDeere]

@@chase5896 Well, like a 4X4 truck, buying a diesel used is the way to shave the intial cost of a diesel to a minimum difference. New, it is a tall order. Keep in mind that while you can save some money in fuel, there usually will be some pay back in resale, but it won't be as much as the difference new, just like 4X4 trucks as mentioned above. I imagine there is some level of coolness or uniqueness to having a diesel L&G tractor too, it's not always tangible right? The difference between a X730 and X750 is $1200, a huge difference, but if you use one a lot, there will be a good savings, as the X750 will use about half the fuel as a X730. So even if the gas and diesel are similarily priced, the diesel is the champ...but if you only mow your yard and say, use it less than 50-75 hours a year, you'll likely never pay off the diesel. It really boils down to usage. Straight up though, if the diesel isn't half the fuel, it's no more than 55-60% of what gas consumption you'll find. That was the biggest difference between my 445 and 430. I was always filling the 445, hardly ever filling the 430, it's just the 445 was a better tractor.

[@chase5896]

@@FloridaDeere yeah, that's true. Thanks man

[@joesiegert5224]

You leave out the added value of a diesel after several hundred hours.

[@FloridaDeere]

You're didn't mention it, but there are a fair amount of people that understand they have more longevity, but still not a bad idea to mention that factor. Thanks for watching.

[@RyansVideoGames]

Diesel all the way

[@FloridaDeere]

Yeah, since I made this video, I have kind of leaned that way myself. As my "permanent" tractors are teh 1023E, now a 455 AWS and a 322 which I'm thinking should I just try to swap it out with a 332 to make my fueling all the same🤔. Thanks for watching.

[@RyansVideoGames]

@@FloridaDeere I scrolled through you channel and god that 455 is perfect that has all the options I would love but those things are crazy money up in Maine

[@FloridaDeere]

@@RyansVideoGames Yes, the up north market is most definitely difficult than Florida or the southeast in general. But we also have to search far and wide for these things too. Plus I'm still working through some issues on this 455. Thanks for watching.

[@Georgiagreen317]

Ethanol-free fuel is a waste of money. Nearly all engine components have long ago adapted to the alcohol. Not only that, such a small amount of the fuel is sold at stations offering it, it is often stale. It should not be used for any fuel comparison for that reason alone. I never run the engine wide open and none of my machines ever burned that amount of fuel. Diesel stinks! It burns your nose and you track the stuff all over with every spill. Not to mention, at the pump. It never evaporates! And you haven't even touched upon the cold weather operation. Gelled fuel, much higher winter fuel burn when all that's available is blended number one fuel. Then the hard winter starting kicks in! You should do your fuel burn comparison in the winter months up north where is below zero half the year. Then compare. It's pretty easy to do sitting under a palm tree but the real world for 2/3rds of the country is quite different. The diesel engine is heavier because it has to be and the basic tractor minus the engine is likely the same. And it will under normal use last longer than gas. As it should. But recovering the added initial cost and real-time fuel costs of diesel, which is always higher than gasoline, the payback is much longer than your calculations. If any at all! And finally. Who even thinks about fuel consumption in a garden tractor. You have work to do, you put gas in it, and get the job done. You may save a trip to two per year to the gas station with a diesel, but the pain in the ass that they are can soon grow old. Been there, done that! But, you made a nice video. You just need more information.

[@FloridaDeere]

Joe, it seems like you have some strong opinions here. I do appreciate you watching and it seems like you watched the whole thing, another thank you. I do disagree with you on a few points, first off, I resent that you think all of us like palm trees, I'm a replanted Yankee, I can't stand them, nor pines, LOL. My 430 and 1023 use a fraction of the fuel that any of my gas engines tractors do, so like you say, maybe not a huge deal, there is a noticeable difference. I love my 322, but it is terrible with gas, no doubt uses at least twice as much as those two mentioned. In our area, diesel fuel is very close in price to ethanol fuel, but as I mentioned much cheaper than ethn-free. You're not the only one that has had the poor opinion of ethanol-free fuel, a few others have made that distinction as well. I have found it better, at least in the much older machine. Please understand all my gas tractors are 1990 or older. On the cold stuff, yeah can't argue there, I bow to your better knowledge and have heard the same, gelling, cold starts and the like, sure seem rougher on the diesel. I did cover some of the benefits of both in two other videos. I think you'll agree with some points, not so much with others. And they were very general assumptions. In the video at hand, I did mention the return would be much longer if someone got a 318 versus a 322, which maybe was a way to simply spend extra money, much like the 332 because the 318 is the same tractor. Having said that, I bet there's a higher percentage of 322 and 332's running around than original 318's. I have no official numbers, just my personal experience with the three tractors. Again, thanks for watching.

[@jdtoys2768]

@@FloridaDeere Well said! Living in North Central Ohio and having owned a John Deere 285, 317, 318, three 430's, a 2520 and a 2032R, I have spent much more time messing around with the gas tractors to keep them running than any diesel tractor. So to quote Joe "You have work to do, you put gas in it, and get the job done." is more true with the diesel tractors than the gas for me...just saying! Thanks for the video...Doug@JD Toys

[@FloridaDeere]

@@jdtoys2768 Yes, gas is fine, but I do like diesel better. Thanks for watching.

[@Georgiagreen317]

@@FloridaDeere Just ran across your video again and it is enjoyable to watch. I know my writing style sounds a bit opinionated and I really don't mean to talk that way about any of these machines. Comparing them is really difficult as they are so old and more often than not, one would end up purchasing one that happens to be available. Of the models you compared, it's not like you can go to a dealer and choose what is best for your application. Usually, these are bought and sold based on what's on Craigs, eBay, or Marketplace. Having reconditioned just about every model, they all have their good and bad points. It's obvious, I'm not enamored with diesel. I've owned lots of them over the years in all sorts of machines and vehicles. But sticking to the subject, another point I would like to mention is the maintenance and updating of these now very old machines. Having just completed a 420 project, I think a point that must be considered is parts availability. Many of these machines have a growing list of parts that are no longer available. Especially with the diesel models but also with the gas, many very important parts are getting hard to find and expensive when you do. One very important consideration is engine replacement should the worse occur. Yanmar's are difficult to find parts for and repowering them is virtually out of the question. The same 420 machine, while much more likely to have this happen, is one of the easiest to re-power. Both the Yanmar's and Onan engines are now NLA. And even if they were, the diesel would be more cost-prohibitive to replace. The Onans are also NLA but you do have the option of many different engines to replace them. And you usually end up with a much better, more fuel-efficient engine. This would be true to all of those machine combinations where a choice of diesel or gas was offered. But then again, this is why so many of those machines are finding their way to the scrap/recyclers to be parted out. Not everyone is interested in a $2500 dollar repower. (Gas) By the way, we lived in Florida for 10 years. I didn't care for it either. Sorry for the long post but it's hard to keep these short.

[@FloridaDeere]

@@Georgiagreen317 I agree with you about the age of the tractors, as age goes by I think resale becomes less of an issue for most. I would say that the Yanmars tend to last longer than the Onans without a doubt, but the video dealt mainly with initial cost versus fuel cost ratios. I think an overall longevity comparison is most likely outside the level of what my channel can provide sadly, but it would be fun to do. I think as time went on, as you mentioned the repowers, I think the original diesel option would become even more attractive if the owner, original owner that is had kept the tractor. I will also say that if an owner takes good care of their tractor, gas engines can run for extended periods of time, even if not as long as diesels. I will also agree if you had to repower a diesel, it would be cost prohibitive outside finding another used ones to transplant and even that could be pricey. And I don't mind your long replies and opinions, that's how I learn. Certainly their are people that don't know what they are talking about but you aren't one of them. So I appreciate your insight.