JOHN DONNE Death Be Not Proud poem | Holy Sonnet 10 | Metaphysical Poetry | LITERATURE ANALYSIS

[@DrOctaviaCox]

Do you find Donne’s logic & imagery compelling? Does Donne’s speaker overthrow Death, do you think?

[@veraintuizione6497]

In my opinion it's not about imagery and logic is about Truth. Death does not exist. Donne has understood it perfectly. Donne overcomes this material state which is not real, is just an illusion.

[@CGMaat]

Certainly - best prosecutor ever! You did a masterpiece of explain!

[@llylearmstrong9152]

Great review.

[@NivarnaMonk]

It’s about fear, John Donne transcends the fear of death and takes on the symbolic rest and eternity that the end brings

[@robertgainer1395]

I love this poem. I think the volta is subtle but meta-poetic, switching from a defiance to death’s inevitability to an outright attack that metaphorically ‘turns the tables’ on death. Another excellent analysis.

[@soho6435]

I found this poem when reading the play Margaret Edson's W;t (the protagonist is an English professor who studies John Donne's work and later on gets diagnosed with cancer and deals with death herself) and then reading the book "On Doctoring" (includes this poem), and I didn't understand the meaning behind it as I'm not good at close reading at all but thank you so much Dr. Cox for this amazing explanation, it really helped me understand this rather beautiful poem!

[@clairee4939]

Great. I found it as the answer to a question on “University Challenge”. I vaguely remember hearing it somewhere before but it didn’t register at the time. Wow.

[@yusuffulat6954]

This is such a great poem. It provides an empowering perspective when facing the concept of death and loss.

[@NotSpockToo]

Thank you for this. I never liked poetry until an English teacher included Donne (whom she hated) in an overview session. I fell immediately in love with his words and imagery and have since read all of his poetry, prose, and am working my way through his sermons (and I'm not remotely religious). A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning and Death Be No Proud are my very favorites.

[@DrOctaviaCox]

Yes, beautiful imagery.

[@friday3417]

If you’re looking for simple, easy poems to also enjoy Robert Frost’s “fire and ice” as well as “the road not taken” are rather good ones

[@lesleywalllace7955]

I studied Donne for A level (many years ago!) and have loved his poems ever since. What has always struck me is that the passion he put into his love poetry remains in his holy sonnets after his conversion. The sonnets are not quiet and contemplative but dynamic and impassioned. You can imagine him thumping his lectern as he delivers them! When these were written most of his readers would have been very familiar with Christian theology of eternal life. This is less so nowadays so I wonder if the poem has the same impact now as it had previously?

[@DrOctaviaCox]

An excellent point Lesley. I imagine probably not. Exactly as you say, his contemporary readers (well, those of 1633, which was after he had died, but when the Holy Sonnets were first published publicly) would have read them with a religious inflection the majority of readers just wouldn't now. I agree with you - I love the passion and energy of Donne's lines too!

[@CGMaat]

Dear Dr. OCTAVIA- thank you for this quintessential explanation to one of my most loved poems that i have always interpreted as the secret of what the mere Christian fairy tale is about. This poem connected me to transcendence like no other and i am not a privileged elite - i was educated in New York City schools and as Puerto Rican and trouble even understanding everyday language . There was some very beautiful way about this dialogue that blew me away. Now i found you and you have masterly deepen the beauty and given me more knowledge in that lovely British voice . I just put together the Russian Dying SWAN with this poem - for my imagination of the transition ; like you said it is just a divine nap- ( LOVE THIS NEW INTERPRETATION) and we become so very rested and beautiful . In Socrates ‘ PHAEDRAS it is the trumpeter’s song - the more beautiful when thy know that they are to die - this gives me so MUCH HOPE!THE GREAT NEWS! I didnt know the COR.. SCRIPTURE - WOW . Today is an UTMOST FINE- YOU! Thank you for this illumination !SEE DYING SWAN- DLYANA-LOPATKINA

[@charlesiragui2473]

Death snuffed out by life - beautiful

[@clairee4939]

What a beautiful way to put it. ♥️

[@chrisbcakes4949]

I can't believe I hadn't come across this poem before! Thank you.

[@realmccoy]

Truly remarkable analysis.

[@DavidSaffern]

One of my husband's favorites poems. Thank you for dissecting for those of us who have trouble understanding poetry. My husband loved poetry. So many books on poetry. Thank you again. JKE

[@metaphysicalmigraine694]

Thank you for an accurate elucidation of John Donne's sonnet. I didn't know how to compose one before, and I'm still at a loss, even if I swear I'm Voltaire reincarnated, with one quatrain or stanza, the exact in English I wrote unaware of his translation in his native French tongue: Truth is my compass. My journey is time. So much can amass. Such too is sublime. I've written extensively with metaphysical meanderings of the mind and am inclined to link my think with ink as Lore and myth before. Awesome analysis. Thanks again.

[@darrenw2890]

I am agnostic, but I do enjoy John Donne's poems. I particularly like this one because it marries with my own belief that death is not to be feared. We don't fear being born. It is part of the cycle. Most of the time it is living we fear. It is living we make an enemy of. In the west we have these silly euphemisms for death like: he passed away. HE DIED. As a keen gardener and animal lover I have witnessed death many times. Plants, cats and dogs die just as we will. We are allotted our time here in accordance with biology. So dance while you are here and try not to fear life nor death. The one line in the poem I take umbrage with is his assertion that death dwells with the sick. This feeds into the idea of Supermen. The concept that illness is a sign of weakness. That line offends me personally and I would imagine a lot of infirm people. After all, most of us will confront infirmity before death finally calls time on our dance on this comic flat earth. With saying that, I really enjoyed your analysis. Darren

[@terrikennedy3088]

I am a follower of Jesus, and illness is

[@NivarnaMonk]

@@terrikennedy3088 illness is?

[@aruns101]

I am so proud that for your explanation, understanding this is poem is a great

[@suganthym1438]

Thank you very much. Found this oddly comforting.

[@DocDarnell]

Thank you for this wonderful analysis of such a deep and provoking poem. I'm thinking of reading this at my mom's funeral, as I find it comforting to address death head on.

[@LindaMarie9]

Yes! Great idea! So sorry for the shadowland you are walking through! Or should I congratulate you on your upward journey out of the shadow of the valley of death? Either way, sending prayers of comfort, strength, peace and the power of the Holy Spirit, who PROVES that death is just a Horizon! May we all transcend this great deception before our bodies rest in peace🙏🫂🦋

[@digitalworld24-25]

Lovely. Thank you ma'am.

[@clairee4939]

😮 Wow. Thank you so much. 😊

[@koralite3953]

excellent analysis!

[@LindaMarie9]

Love this! Beautifully delivered and "interpreted!" Have you got anything like this on pain, suffering? You have whet my appetite!🥰💖😇

[@وجدانصادق-ي3ل]

great explanation

[@DrOctaviaCox]

Thank you very much. I'm glad you found it helpful. Octavia

[@paganpoetprophet6441]

If I may add ? To quote EMILY DICKINSON ,poetry is but life distilled , john donne attempts perhaps to simplify and distill death itself ,

[@paganpoetprophet6441]

And why is it called Holy? To me it teeters on blasphemy , since death is a creation of God or mother nature , and serves as a cleansing of the enigma Life

[@DrOctaviaCox]

Good question. I suppose because it ( and the other _Holy Sonnets_ ) considers a religious theme broadly speaking (here, a conviction in the afterlife), even as it also exposes anxiety about it.

[@franceszapata951]

Wasnt it Gwendolyn Brooks who said "poetry is life distilled?" I love Dickinson, though😊

[@henryahoy]

I think I may have studied this (several centuries ago) at school. It seems so ridiculous to remember a bunch of 14yr olds in rural New South Wales in the late 70's being expected to make anything of this.

[@RonLWilson]

It seems that death does exert power over those some who call it mighty. For we also read that the devil roars like a lion and a male lion roars to panic their prey into running into an ambush the the female lions in the pride weighting in ambush. Thus not fearing that roar of death and thus giving flight also defeats its power.

[@ruthlevai4816]

Couldn't "yet" in the fourth line also be understood as "moreover", rather than, as you say, hinting at his anxiety?

[@Beastlee1]

I always read this poem as the 1600’s version of their way of saying “yolo”. After your explanation I don’t know if I’m wrong but I feel like I am. Idk. I’m a high school drop out.

[@friday3417]

I know I’m 2 years late, but I will still try. In a way, John Donne isn’t just saying “yolo”. He is saying he does not fear death as believing in God and being a faithful servant to him will make him go to heaven along the best of men, meaning even after death takes his body his soul will depart to heaven to find everlasting peace. However, this obviously means he must stay faithful to god and not to indulge in any sin whatsoever. Basically yolo with limits

[@paganpoetprophet6441]

I personally think John donne wrote this poem , given his century to assault , attack , insult , belittle death as if to be a mortal showing and daring to reveal to the masses , that this enigma ,which was at that time shrouded in mystery , how the ignorant masses must have feared death , to the point of majestic superstition being created to explain this mysterious entity , fear can freeze a man in mortal combat ,it can also freeze the spirit hope of the masses , when death is elevated as it was in john donnes century , I feel john donne may have been commissioned by the powers Parliament or monarch to put death in its place , so the common man would not see death as perhaps more mighty than the powers of reason that the ruling class relied on to rule the masses , superstition tends to grow and hobble a people when something is more feared or revered than the church or monarch , so by the belittlement of death , common men would once again look to the church or monarch for life's answers , to me death is like birth we will not remember , for dying slow is not death itself , but a process to reach death ,we mortals do not remember birth nor will we remember our death ,so I think this was a subtle political tool to impress on the people ,the ruled , to not let death seem so giant, I hope I make sense

[@DrOctaviaCox]

A subversive attack on what William Blake would later call "the mind forged manacles"? Brilliant thought.

[@هاجرعدنان-خ6خ]

ماهي الأدوات الشعريه التي استخدم الشاعر

[@RaysDad]

I believe the long vowel sounds of the last line would be an example. Also, addressing Death directly with persuasive, logical arguments.

[@souadhaidou344]

Personification and metaphor

[@robinlillian9471]

Obviously, Death still came for him, so he/she wasn't impressed all that much. Donne assumes that Death's purpose is to at least destroy your consciousness instead of to transport people to the afterlife, which could even be an improvement. If no one died, there would be no place for future generations. Everything has its price, and some things are ultimately inescapable.

[@DrOctaviaCox]

Yes, indeed one cannot escape dying. But I think Donne's point is that one can be released from - or defeat, or "overthrow" - Death's _power_ (we might think of 'Death' as a symbolic figure here, rather than the act of dying): one can defeat the apparent threat of Death (the threat being worry, angst, fear about dying)?

[@robinlillian9471]

@@DrOctaviaCox The unknown is always the most frightening. Fear is a normal emotion that protects you from endangering yourself. It's healthy, as long as you don't overdo it. If you didn't fear death, and didn't run from that tiger, you would be very unlikely to pass your genes on to the next generation. Attempting to somehow defeat or ignore the forces of nature or the laws of physics is never a good idea. They will eventually catch up with you in a very unpleasant way.

[@DrOctaviaCox]

Yes, indeed Robin - fear of the unknown can be crippling. I think that's Donne's point - that one shouldn't allow a fear of dying to become overwhelming. Achieving that (appropriate fear rather than paralysing hear) is a victory.

[@friday3417]

@@robinlillian9471he isn’t attempting to defeat it, he’s just putting death in place. Donne doesn’t try at all to win over death, but rather belittle it a and welcome it if it ever came as it can only get his body, but not his soul.

[@عاشقةنفسي-ف1و]

اريد المعنى العام والتفصيلي لان ما اعرف اترجم من تحجين

[@jeffreyrichardson]

*

[@sabinepayr7057]

... and out of John Donne's proud, poor Death comes Terry Pratchett's DEATH. Sorry for the blasphemy, but this is what comes to my mind first.