John Garand's .22 Trainer: the Springfield M1922MI and M2

The effort to create a .22 rimfire training and competition version of the 1903 Springfield rifle began just after World War One, as a project of the esteemed then-Major Julian Hatcher. His work would result in the M1922 rifle, of which about 2000 were made. However, the design would go through several significant iterations.
In the mid 1920s, John Garand was tasked with improving the rifle, and he came up with a modified version that went into production in 1925. This would feature a flush fitting magazine (removable), a new stock design, and improved specifications for the barrel and chamber to improve accuracy. As the M1922MI, this would see substantial production and use by both the military and the civilian shooting world (by way of the DCM). However, it was not yet perfected.
In 1934, a second set of improvements would go into production as the M2, against designed by Garand. These included designing the bolt head retaining latch (it had been a weak point of the previous type) and substantially shortening the bolt throw to improve functioning. The M2 type would be produced until 1942, when it would be replaced by a much more economical training rifle made by Mossberg.
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[@indydurtdigger2867]

Many years ago I ran across one of these in a back woods bait and tackle/gun shop. Had no idea what I was looking at and honestly assumed it was a conversion someone did to a 1903. Fast forward about 30 years and all I can do is a solid face palm.

[@renelopez2244]

Man oh, man... I'd have done the same thing not knowing what it was. It happens to us all

[@ARMAN35LEE]

God these old bolt action rifles are just so cool

[@sircarter2428]

you should take out the bolt and end him rightly

[@somethingloud1886]

orion gaming is that a skallagrim reference

[@sircarter2428]

; )

[@ARMAN35LEE]

orion gaming the combat manual shows it being done so it must be real hurr durr

[@Boeing_hitsquad]

.. yep... after this, I'm definitely going out back to the range for some mad-minute practice on my .22lr SMLE Cadet-Trainer and then see if it worked with the .303 ..my kid's gonna be angry I used up all his Zombie doodles he made for targets.. :)

[@JerryEricsson]

Years ago, long before I was born, my father purchased a Remington 521T (I think that was the number, I haven't looked at her for years!) it came with that same sight, but mounted on the other side of the receiver, and a very nice leather sling with an adjustable sling mount system for the front of the sling. He always told me it was a surplus Army trainer, but I have never heard of such a gun, of course I was young at the time and didn't have a lot of knowledge about guns. Many years ago, I gave the sight away, now I regret that for not being able to complete the rifle. Dad had the gun drilled and tapped for a side mount scope, and the scope is still on there, it is a cheap small 4X scope marketed by Sears I think, called a J.C.Higgins scope. it still works fine. About twenty years ago, I repaired the stock, where dad broke it beating a wounded rabbit to death after wounding it, and polished her up to 400 grit then hot blued her in one of our gunsmith bluing sessions. She came out looking like new, except now, after all those years, you can see a small crack where I glued the stock together. For many many years, the rifle had black friction tape all around the pistol grip portion of the stock where dad had broken it, so when I repaired the break, I also sanded the stock down to bare wood, and put a nice oil finish on her, that too has held up well. In another ten or twelve years it will go to my eldest grandson, he will be of age to use it by then. Oh the rifle has the name Targetmaster Jr. on the barrel.

[@kenibnanak5554]

We had these in High School (JROTC) and they were neat little 22s Sadly we weren't allowed to check them out of the armory for small game hunting, although many did ask to. LoL Instead we just used them for 50 foot target shooting at the indoor range. They were extremely accurate rifles.

[@jmpetersrn]

Ken ibn Anak same for us back in 1974-1978.

[@kenibnanak5554]

Wayne Hartneck loL, we had individually assigned M14s too. A TRW for me. I still have my old weapons card (left in the rack when checking out the rifle), although battacks guard and CQ were with 1903s. :)

[@pakman422]

Ken ibn Anak Thats awesome. Its said what school programs like JROTC have turned into. In my old high school all they did was march in the parking lot. One JROTC kid had a pocket knife fall out of his pocket and was suspened for a week and had his parents "talked to". Us and some parents raised a fuss about it but of course everyone was ignored. - Jacob S.

[@yearzero974]

Unless you are in the habit of calling a US Rifle 1903 a "neat little" rifle you will know that the M1922M1/M2 is not a "little .22". They are full sized rifles, built every bit as strong as a 1903. There were many .22 trainers built in that era, the Winchester Model 52, Mossberg 44US, H&R Model 65, and others. The H&R was built as a Garand trainer, it is approximately the size and weight of a Garand.

[@57WillysCJ]

When you hear the bolts work on these, you recognize old school quality. Always brings a smile to my face.

[@cs-rj8ru]

Sadly they could be built today, and with generally better tolerances. Even more sadly is that they'd likely not sell too well. Market has shifted.

[@iamnolegend483]

This makes me nostalgic. I learn to shoot a rifle club that was run by the local police department. And I do believe this is one of the rifles that we used. Fun fact, the instructor. I learned many years later, was in the O.S.S.

[@JorgeDiaz-xo8kb]

Liked very much the focusing on and off of the rear to front sight . Shows well thought out presentation. Great work.

[@franklinrector3690]

I actually inherited one from my father that he got from his father who was in the army in the 40s and 50s. I'm so glad I found this video i knew very little about this rifle except for how collectable it is. Great video

[@joshw9559]

I have a Mossberg .22 Enfield style trainer that was sent to England in 1942

[@class3nfadealer666]

I was fortunate to acquire one of the M2 rifles in just over S/N 3400 range from a dear friend's estate. Excellent condition and great shooter!

[@johnhurst3737]

Dear forgotten weapons ( aka gun Jesus ) I know this is a bit late not important, but I must suggest that the sa80 overview is not complete without bayonet comments/review. As private Pike would say " they don't like it up them" ( that last bit is British comedy reference we need a bit of a laugh ) keep up the top work.

[@TheRustylungs]

John Hurst you mean jones

[@johnhurst3737]

I have failed in epic proportions, he was a corporal too. Please revoke my British stiff upper lip. ( cheers for the correction )

[@zipdedoda6532]

Gun Jesus, I like it.

[@tonlito22]

I thought you were quote Mad Esson. "It's da cold steel boys. Dey don't like it up 'em."

[@johnhurst3737]

Hi, don't know that quote. I was trying to quote " corporal Jones from the BBC series Dad's army " but as was correctly corrected said private Pike instead, " you stupid boy"

[@crazykirsch]

I would say first but, instead I'll just say I wish I could afford these rifles

[@HughesEnterprises]

They aren't that expensive. $1-2K at the most. Although a Winchester 52 would be a far superior rifle for regular use and less expensive.

[@class3nfadealer666]

Forgot to mention - Great presentation as are all your videos, Ian. Very detailed and informative, Ian!

[@derelique85]

excellent video. I inherited one of these from my great grandfather and just learned from this video some great details about it!

[@bergkongs]

Where did the video on the Czech bullpup anti-tank rifle go? I did see it yesterday and then it became unobtainium....

[@MrMoldyMurder]

Just what I was thinking.Must have been taken down.

[@3ducs]

Good vid! I have an M2, 4-42 dated barrel. The M2s have an adjustable headspace bolt. If you can find a good M2 buy it! Same for the Winchester Model 52. Pricy both but the pleasure of ownership endures after the sting of the cost has faded. A good D-Day vid, I didn't know of the John Garand tie-in with the Springfield M2. For a Garand trainer there was the H&R Reising Model 65, it was made to approximate the weight and dimensions of the service rifle. The magazines will hold ten rounds but are also marked at eight rounds. They have precision Redfield sights and give a Garand sight picture. They are semiauto with adjustable recoil springs for different ammo.

[@rich5vgyc.803]

I as well but in 30-06?

[@class3nfadealer666]

Right On! on the Model 52! Picked one up made in 1948 and she's a tackholer!!

[@Yorgar]

Gotta make the rifle "Private Proof", also I think I've seen these at local gun shows, gonna keep my eyes open now

[@MrBenny1220]

I inherited an M2 from my great grandpa, serial number in the 900s and barrel stamped 9-35. I haven't found one with a earlier serial number. Neat rifle, only wish he hadn't refinished the stock. :(

[@dumb_beard]

charming guns... :)

[@redjoshman]

Ian, A tiny mistake at ~9:06 in the video, the standard 1903 Rifles all have a knurled disk like cocking piece. That "smooth style" one was certainly not standard on any of the full size 30.06 1903 Rifles and is more reminiscent of what you see on the likes of K98Ks and the like.

[@cs-rj8ru]

I was surprised at such a deliberate mistake by a supposed gun guru. Is he using Obama's teleprompter?

[@hellfrog24]

Why the hell is KZbin suggesting Paw Patrol to me on a Forgotten Weapons video? That don't make no sense...

[@YeeMacghyee]

hellfrog24 "educational" videos all get lumped together. So some kids have probably actually stumbled onto these accidentally while looking for their normal stuff.

[@hellfrog24]

Yee Macghyee Good to know, Danke.

[@hristo.bogdanov]

I'm drooling... :)

[@johnwillis4706]

Years ago I was looking for either a Remington M513T or Mossburg M44T. I ran across one of these rifles and bought it for $100. I since bought a 513T and M44T but I gotta say the Springfielt will shoot with either of them. It is excellently accurate. The DCM has become waaaaayyy over priced.

[@timbaskett6299]

I don't know, there is just something about a bolt action with a peep sight that makes me almost drool (it's the peep sights). Maybe that's why one of my most recent "ballistic acquisitions" is a Crosman 100. I also have a Crosman 160 (.22cal) with the peep sights, and a QB78 (.177cal) fitted with a peep.

[@Toolness1]

My Grandpa brought a bunch of parts home from WWII and there was an M1922 M2 bolt in with a bunch of other stuff.

[@esrvdb88]

Interesting, they high side auction estimate is less than what Simpsonltd has been selling these for.

[@sniperboom1202]

You should try to find a hoffer Thompson in there my family has one and is really interesting to see them

[@TiberiusThyben]

Hey Ian. Didn't want to bother with an email, since it's probably too out of the way and a bit of a long shot, but if you were ever around Saskatchewan, I got some friends with a museum on the Riel Resistance and Metis history that has some stuff that might be up your alley. Among the stuff they had there was a trapper's old pinfire double barrel shotgun, an old NWMP Snider-Enfield, and Metis soldier's rifle.

[@Boeing_hitsquad]

I was supposed to go out and split fire wood after this .... now i'm going to take my .22lr SMLE Cadet-trainer & .303 out back instead of the chainsaw and wood splitter. ..... GEEZUS! .. THANKS FOR RUINING MY DAY! :) :) :D

[@SuperWasweissichdenn]

Forgotten Weapons could you make a video about the german Drahtschneidepatrone (improvised ww1 wire cutting round) ? I wonder how effective it really was and how dangerous it actually is to fire one off from a 98 style rifle. Best regards, SWWD

[@aljr357]

I prefer 30.06 rifles but I would still love to have these .22 rifles for bird hunting. They would be great for partridge and rabbit.

[@fakerfake1]

I’d like to hear your thoughts on the conversion guns that started as m1’s and were converted to m2’s. I have one and I want to learn more about it

[@countryfrieddiesel]

I've been a subscriber for some time now, but this the video you've done on a firearm that I actually own, I have an M2 that I often use as a varmit rifle. It's in a rough unfinished stock, but it is an incredibly accurate little rifle, having taken squirrels at 200 yds. I also have a Winchester Model 490, but I find myself carrying the M2 far more than the 490, I love the 490, but the M2 is by far and away the best .22 rifle I've ever owned.

[@samiam619]

james griffin I have one also. Do you have a sling on it. It looked like the one Ian had had a 03 sling.

[@countryfrieddiesel]

Mine is in a generic 03 Springfield stock, using just a cheap Wal-Mart sling.

[@aidandudley8746]

We opened up a safe at my grandma's old house and found one of these fine guns in there

[@rogerwilco5918]

Found a brand new one in my grandfather's attic.. brand new, never fired.. huge pain in the ass cleaning all the cosmoline off, but well worth the effort

[@lynchlink01]

You should do a video on the Mannlicher Schoenauer

[@stevewarren4292]

Hey, Ian, I inherited one of these except it's in 30-06 caliber. Same Lyman peep sights and everything and I think it has some kind of quick detach front scope mount out on the barrel. I've never even fired it.

[@southronjr1570]

The one you have isn't an M2. What you have more likely is one of the target models made by Springfield, they had essentially a custom shop making them and they were used by the AMU and sold through the DCM iirc. Without seeing it I can't tell you the exact model you have but they made a bunch of them. When Hatcher developed the M1 22lr rifles, he essentially copied the full sized "sporter" rifles that Springfield was making at the time.

[@SlimCowboy]

Very cool video curious to see if you talk about the Stevens 416 later I have a "us property" marked one that I would love to learn more about

[@theyatsyspam]

Thankyou, Gunjesus.

[@adammfanning3654]

Beauties.

[@itswoods]

Videos at the springfield armory when

[@ganymedeaerospace4580]

What was the effect of the Great Depression on military procurement in the United States?

[@hh4826]

I still don't understand the phantom dislikes.....

[@harunhodzic1]

hi make some video about mechanical sights and compare them. I saw in couple video vernier sights on witvorth rifle and it's so cool

[@stokesseegers5012]

Someone help me out here!? I went to a Boy Scout camp in 95...ish it was in the mountains of North Carolina, Virginia, or West Virginia. It was a huge camp, 3,000 kids with their Boy Scout Troop. I spent a lot of time on the shooting range. I'm 90% sure it was the Mossberg 44 (.22cal), it had the peep sights and the magazine, bolt action with a heavy barrel. I want to get one for my niece. Is there anything else like that that I might be confusing the Mossberg 44 with?

[@TaeruAlethea]

Nice red Polo, have not seen that one. is it new?

[@worldtraveler930]

A 22 from 1922. ;)

[@corndogg4279]

I used something like this in high school ROTC but they were only single shoot and heavy as hell

[@Silahtar357]

Where's spef?

[@firstspeffan4845]

Silahtar357 I don't know, but I'm worried.

[@fuzzydunlop7928]

That Spef's an outside cat. You might not see him for a few days, but he ain't dead. He'll show up again sometime around trash day. Can't keep an outlaw chained up.

[@firstspeffan4845]

Fuzzy Dunlop but nobody worships an outside cat. spef has a church dedicated to him.

[@firstspeffan4845]

perreterecon spefentology is the one true way. Gun Jesus is not the messiah.

[@genericpersonx333]

One would think that they would have wanted a simple .22LR conversion of the Springfield that otherwise was identical to the standard rifle so that troops would be gaining additional grounding in the weapon's handling characteristics except obviously for recoil management being different. These guns seem to offer little that a commercial .22LR of the era couldn't have done for much cheaper. Classic American Procurement at play?

[@vincentmueller3717]

Numerich Arms, now Gun Parts made a Springfield conversion kit in the '60s, using a barrel liner and a lot of 1922 series parts. Most took some tinking with to get smooth functioning. As to procurement, the Armory wanted to keep a trained workforce busy, and during peace time, they wete pressured to shrink the staff of redundant people.

[@johnqpublic2718]

want one!!!!

[@merlemorrison482]

I had been told that rejected receivers were also used for the M1922; do you have any knowledge about this?

[@scullystie4389]

I have an M1922M1 that was originally procured by my grandfather (a WWI Army vet). It's in excellent condition, but it's missing the magazine, and they've proven to be tough to find. So if anyone has a spare or knows where I can get one, let me know!

[@charlesperry671]

Squeaker: SHOULD I BUY THE SPRINGFEILD?

[@dbmail545]

I have seen exactly one of these. I don't know which variant it was but I was envious. Maybe I will win the lottery and can get one.

[@MrJest2]

What I find amusing is that these are the first firearms I ever shot. This was in the early '70s, at YMCA summer camp. The camp shooting range had about 20 of them on hand. I'm guessing they were donated by people who got them from the DCM a few decades before and then replaced them with more modern rifles. Like the comic books we had back then, these rifles that were once considered "near junk hand-me-downs" are now stupidly valuable. If only I'd kept those comics; I could sell them and get enough cash to buy one of these. :-)

[@vahidgholami5092]

what is up with the recommendations?

[@alexmoore1506]

Vahid Gholami because the video is classified as "educational"

[@chi7891]

I want one

[@Feiora]

such a big rifle for such a tiny bullet... it really brings home how tiny .22 is when you see the magazine and that tiny, tiny space for it on the gigantic rifle thats firing it...

[@jbrunty1989]

will you have a 500k subscriber special?

[@happyhaunter_5546]

"Juhl-JUNE, of 2017" and that children was the time Gun Jesus ALMOST made a mistake, yet heroically collected himself just in time to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat!

[@kainhall]

the CMP (civilian marksmanship program) is THE ONLY place to buy an M1 garand . if you go to a gun show..... a rifle like mines (43 reciever, 42 bolt, 52 barrel thats shot out...new production trigger group..... and NO matching stock pieces, even the metal) will cost you 5000 dollars... . they will say it saw action in both D-day, Iwo Jima.... then the most famous battles in Korea when in reality..... it was a training rifle.... and got a CRAP TON of use for training, and thats why its so worn out, dinged up, not cared for, ETC . . but this very same rifle..... from the CMP 500 bucks . . ya just have to join a gun club of your choice for 0 to 20 bucks can join for 1 month..... then cancel your subscription still get to keep the rifle . . . . and the CMP also has fully rebuilt.... new barrel and stock..... finished with CORRECT methods and they used to be 1000 bucks last i looked they were 1200 . . . . . > > > > > > >. OMG!!!!! the CMP is completely sold out..... besides a few 650 dollar rifles . i never thought id see the day....... . now you just have private sellers...... who mark the price WAY WAY WAY up that 650 dollar rifle will be at a gun show... being sold for 2500+ 2 weeks from now thats a guarantee!!! . . wow.... pretty soon, the CMP will have NO rifles or pistols of ANY kind to sell what a sad day . im so glad i got my M1 when i did even if it needs a new 250 dollar barrel and 150 dollar stock to be as accurate as i want it to be . but even now..... i would not want to be 200 yards down range from my M1 she can still shoot "Minute of Man/deer" at 300 yards

[@tonycantrell9547]

look like a 22lr bolt rifle i picked up years ago. but mine has a round cross hair front site. mine is not as pretty ...lol

[@smithjeateux5641]

I have a squires bingham M11 bolt action rifle,. 22 lr., can someone please help me i want to know when it was manufactured, help please

[@R3DE3MER]

Did he misspell the gun name? he says its the M1922M1 but typed M1922MI.

[@51WCDodge]

I have a Mossberg MB42a Some 30, 000 of those were shipped to UK between 1939/41.

[@dirtmonkee13]

Does anyone know if the USMC used semi auto .22 training rifles in the early/mid 40s? My grandfather served in the Marines in WW2 and when my Dad was teaching me to shoot when I was kid we used a really heavy, old .22 rifle. It was semi auto and my dad told me it belonged to his dad and was a training rifle he used when he first joined the USMC. I was around 7-8 years old and don't remember many specific details but I do recall the gun being very heavy for me at the time which makes me think it was a "full" size rifle. It was a full wood stock and it did use 22LR ammo but that's about all I can recall. The rifle itself was lost to my dads wife after he passed and I will never see it again as she's a greedy vain bitch.

[@MrKraken47]

Perhaps the H&R M65? It was a 22LR version of the Reising M50 Submachine Gun, used by the USMC for marksmanship training during the WWII era. Seems like it would match what you're describing pretty closely. forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=158803

[@dirtmonkee13]

Luke Steenberg Thanks so much for that link, I can't say with absolute certainty that's it but it very well could be, the bolt and magazine strike a chord with me. I've asked my aunt, Dads sister, if she has any pictures of my grandfather or my dad with rifles in them, so hopefully I can match it soon. Thanks again, love these videos and the community around them.

[@kabic7893]

Look at the Stevens M87 M...it is aversion of model 87 that has Garand looking wood stock.

[@skimpadimp6373]

Thanks gun jesus

[@panzerhunter7627]

Can you bring the FN FNC and the FN SCAR H/L? Those are my favorites guns, but the L85A1 would be my number 4 under the Dragunov. Hope to see those soon :)

[@hainhatphung1371]

Ian almost say "Julia" instead of July XD Did Rock Island and Julia Auction hold Ian prisoner at their places for too long? Poor Ian.

[@chrisraven6428]

new shirt!!!!! arrrrgh change!!!!! new is bad!!!! love the vids keep up the good work

[@nol1379]

H&R Leatherneck trainer in 22lr. next.

[@bobsmalser8304]

Director of Civilian Marksmanship. Not "Department" of Civilian Marksmanship.

[@AKATenn]

i hate those peep sights, when i was in cadets, the .22's we used had the exact same one these rifles have. and i couldn't hit the broad side of a barn... im pretty sure they were not zeroed in... it was bad...

[@sammoon2906]

Hadwell They're fully adjustable, you should have zeroed them...

[@AKATenn]

I wasn't allowed to, it was a fully controlled thing and they weren't mine to touch... I own my own .22 with open sights, can hit a penny from 80 yards with it...

[@sammoon2906]

Hadwell Really? What training program was this? I'm curious who would teach people to shoot, but not adjust the sights to be able to hit something?

[@AKATenn]

it was sea cadets in canada, and i was err... 13 years old... i'd already been shooting air rifles and .22's for years before then, i'd even shot my first deer by then... so i got pretty bored with shooting there...

[@sammoon2906]

Hadwell Well, I wasn't there, but it sounds pretty odd, to have target rifles with target sights, but teach nothing more than making noise because you won't allow sight adjustments. I would have ditched that program, too...

[@mrbloodmuffins]

None of the related videos have anything to do with Forgotten Weapons.

[@alexmoore1506]

Taras Shevchenko it's because the video is classified as "educational"

[@mrbloodmuffins]

Among those, this video is by far the most educational.

[@ScreamingSturmovik]

so after ww1 when everyone learned that marksmanship wasn't as important as they thought they americans thought it was still really really important...... go figure

[@mikebirmingham9154]

second

[@watchguy7986]

So I have one that takes 30.06 inserts that shoot a 22 short. I think it is a Hoffer Thompson??