John Lennon & Stuart Sutcliffe with Jude Kessler part three |

[@annakermode6646]

What a lovely woman Jude is, her parting comments were so sweet. I’m glad she dedicated so much effort to John and stu’s friendship, a warm note for such a sad tale.

[@cameronlewis1218]

This lady is such a gem. I think her analysis of how things were back then is spot on…

[@strose2002]

Matt, this was the best video yet. So nice hearing the stories and life of Stuart Sutcliffe. I love the way Jude can make it sound like it just happened. She can bring us into the moment. Great to hear how important Stu was to John and the Beatles. I always look at Stuart when I'm holding the Sgt.Pepper Lp or cd. Wonderful video Matt. Your channel is #1.

[@popgoesthe60s52]

Thanks again, St. Rose!

[@jaysmith3095]

Pre fame Beatles is so fascinating. They were the same as post fame Beatles with the exception of the people that fell into their circle. He nailed it noting they attracted very different people post fame. Exploitive rather than interesting and collaborative. Can’t get enough info on Stu Sutcliffe, he had a lasting impact on the group.

[@eltronics]

Judd is such a great storyteller. You listen to her and you can tell this John Lennon project is a labor of love. She is bond and determined to mention every little detail. Great job.

[@jackilyncaraballo6586]

Wow Matt! I TRULY enjoyed this 3 part series with you and Jude Kessler! That lady has got the details!

[@paulsurelynotsmith8179]

This just awesome Matt...wow real insight here .need to look to this further Jude s books on John really fascinating n detailed

[@TheEeliciousOne]

Great conversation. I have learned so much. FYI the Stuart Sutcliffe: The Lost Beatle documentary is available on KZbin if you search. Thank you Matt and Jude.

[@JammerAma]

Matt I know you read these because you've replied to me before. You honestly rock at running this channel. You are an incredible content creator and you are even better about keeping up with the community. I am so happy one of your re imagined Beatles albums popped up in my recommended tab years ago because you have quickly become one of my favorite channels on this entire platform. This is what running a KZbin channel should be. No fake interactions at all. Just a very talented guy showing his love and appreciation for the cultural impact that the 60's had on our society even today. And I'm no old head either. Just a 25 year old Beatle fanatic that has been turned onto great music through this channel. I would never have listened to bands like 13th Floor Elevators, The Byrds or Peter and Gordon without you. Thank you so much Matt and keep up the impeccable work.

[@popgoesthe60s52]

Hey Cakesause, thank you for the very kind comment. I do love this job and am very happy to connect with people like yourself who appreciate this music and these topics. More to come!

[@JammerAma]

@@popgoesthe60s52 Looking forward to it, Matt! Keep killing it.

[@70PaulK]

These interviews are amazing! I was a bit cautious about yet another Lennon book, but Jude is a thorough professional and an engaging interviewee. She made some insightful remarks on Cynthia in the previous interview & paid respect to her contribution to the story. Also glad to see the ridiculous Goldman slur getting treated with the contempt it deserves.

[@lisastillwagon425]

Thank you for bringing the Early Beatles to life with Stu and Astrid in Hamburg and Liverpool! I really appreciate getting to know how important Stu was to Astrid, John, George, even Paul. Thanks, Jude!

[@chrisblackfingernail]

Wonderful 3 interviews with Jude, loads of info and a really truthful attempt to find the real truths of Lennon and the Beatles. Those books need to be discussed and read more, but without a distribution or reprint deal here in the UK I probably won’t be able to access them. Well done Matt for finding this excellent lady.

[@popgoesthe60s52]

Thank you for watching all three!

[@chrisblackfingernail]

It was a pleasure to listen to all three. It’s interesting to conjecture where Stu would have gone have he had lived. I went to art college myself and ended up doing illustration and graphic design, old style by hand in the late seventies and early eighties, so I can empathise with the art scene in the 1960s. I like to think stu maybe went to New York in the mid 60s and met Warhol and the Lou Reed entourage, maybe even Yoko? Now How would that of influenced John ?…

[@Mandrake591]

This is a very interesting episode to Beatle-holics like myself. In spite of having read just about every Beatles book I could get my hands on, I never have read anything this in-depth about Stuart. I had no idea his artwork was already being praised at only age 16. I don’t think Stuart would have wanted to be a Beatle, but I agree, he may have gone on to do some of their album covers, a la Klaus Voorman’s “Revolver” artwork. And had Stuart lived, would John have been as intrigued with Yoko. Part of me thinks John wouldn’t have. All in all, another great interview!

[@squorly]

What a lovely lady. I've thoroughly enjoyed these 3 sessions and only wish there could be more. Thank you both.

[@antarcticorb9197]

Hey Matt, just completed all three parts of your interview with Judith, and I was eating it up! Looking forward to more with her when she's ready with other issues of her book series. This has now become my "go to" channel for everything sixties, and I truly appreciate the work you're doing. I hope you love it as much as I do!

[@popgoesthe60s52]

Thank you for the support! More to come!

[@DocDoccus]

Utterly fascinating. From the "half a painting" to Stu wanting to concentrate on being an serious artist to naming The Beatles, etc. it's just mesmerizing. And to think there are still some untruths going on with his story is just amazing.

[@lewis4122]

Fascinating discussion. Good to hear the facts about Stu's contribution to the development of the Beatles.

[@chadbennett7873]

What a wonderful tribute to Stuart Sutcliffe - I learned so very much! Thank you!

[@popgoesthe60s52]

Glad you enjoyed it, Chad!

[@chadbennett7873]

@@popgoesthe60s52 The depth of your research is impressive, and This sseries with Jude brings a completely fresh angle on the many things that the Beatles changed in music and why. THANK YOU!

[@billleary5779]

Such a great series of discussions with Jude on John Lennon. This last one was my favorite so far. I probably should check out her series of books since they appear to be well researched…..which Most John Lennon books are not. Thanks for sharing this Matt!

[@markwestervelt9708]

I know it sounds crazy but I could read a book on what all four Beatles diet consisted of. Breakfast,lunch and dinner. Especially when they were touring. 👍 great show Matt.

[@ministerofdarkness]

Really fantastic interview! So much information to process about Stu and his relationship with John. Definitely going to read her books.

[@radiomindchatter7994]

Great research into Stuart...I was always interested in him.

[@pedrorocha9722]

My older brother had the (i guess it was) official Beatles biography. I never read it, but spend time looking at the pictures. I have to say that i only made ten years in 72, so I was really young when I saw this book. There was only one thing about it that mesmerized me. Yes, you guessed it: Stu Sutcliffe. Maybe because he was different or appeared to be cooler than the others. It was a different energy. And I picked it right away as a child. So if Sutcliffe had this effect on a kid in not so nicelly printed photos, I wonder how he would have been in real life. When I was in the army (my lost weekend) I made, in my free time, a short comic about a teenage idol, one Johnny Sutcliffe...

[@4-dman464]

12:45 Turning his back to the audience was a pose that Miles Davis was publicised for by 1959, and Miles Davis was THE cool jazzer then. Perhaps Stu Sutcliffe adapted the Birth of the Cool to rock 'n' roll. 37:00 One correction: Whatever the reason they took Sutcliffe home rather thanto hospital, it wasn't because medical treatment was unaffordable. The National Health Service absolutely guaranteed free treatment including free hospital ward stays (with free food), free specialist consultation, any operations free, and free Accident & Emergency admission, and indeed free ambulance had they made the free 999 phone call. By 'free', I mean unconditionally, no hidden charges, and they would all have known that. So perhaps Stu Sutcliffe didn't want a fuss made, decided to heal at home. 46:00 Great research got from contacting George Martin that nails details considered too peripheral by other researchers but is a real cut above, vital if the past is to be brought to life. That tangential research really lifts a narrative, New Journalists like Tom Wolfe knew so well but not enough researchers realise but clearly Jude Kessler is savvy to.

[@johnthemachine]

its interesting to note how americans don't even factor socialized medicine into historical discussions like this. totally brainwashed to think it doesn't exist and/or never did.

[@threethymes]

This was my thought too. There is something wrong with the hospital issue. There is no way someone in the UK would refuse to go to hospital because of cost. All treatment was free after the creation of the NHS in 1948. Maybe Americans didn't realise this?

[@jts3339]

There is a very comprehensive 2005 documentary, Stuart Sutcliffe: The Lost Beatle, that includes extensive photos and interviews with Astrid Kirchherr and Klaus Voormann. PBS ran it a few years ago and occasionally reruns it. There was also some speculation that Stu had an Arteriovenous Malformation (AVM) that led to a fatal cerebral hemorrhage, some discussions with his sister, and examples of his artwork. This is the most complete and informative study of Stu that I’ve seen in any format.

[@popgoesthe60s52]

Yes, that is an excellent look at his life.

[@martinsplichal1581]

Finally had a chance to watch this episode. It's fantastic. Thanks for this wonderful presentation that gives Stu Sutcliffe some of his due. It's great that you have some special guests like Jude Kessler that allow a more intimate view of artists whose work I've long appreciate and admired. Thanks for all the great work Matt. Cheers.

[@popgoesthe60s52]

Thank you, Martin - much appreciated.

[@prettyshinyspaghetti8332]

Although this was a fascinating look at Stu Sutcliffe, I can't help but also see this as adding another layer to the tragic life of John Lennon. The depth of influence and meaning that Stu had on John is greater than I ever thought. How could John possibly comprehend that this guy was suddenly dead? By then John clearly knew to suppress his grief into laughter. If John lived I wonder if he would've ever really gotten over it. He at least was able to talk about his mom a bit in interviews. Also That story of Stu's passport really got me. That is a symbol of true love and friendship

[@CBCDs]

This interview series has been really great. Thanks Matt and Jude

[@renemies78]

I was almost going to skip this video because I thought I'd heard everything I needed to know about Stuart but this really changed the way I see him completely. Jude's love of the Beatles is so infectious and inspiring that I immediately got out my Beatles Bootlegs of the band rehearsing with Stuart on Bass and played it in the background during the last 30 minutes of the video. Really cool interview and I must get Jude's books now. Thank you so much for doing these three videos!

[@popgoesthe60s52]

I'm glad you tuned in, Rene! I plan on having Jude return, she was received very well. I do have some more Stuart topics coming up later this year that I hope people find unique so stay tuned!

[@danielrockmyer949]

Thanks Matt. So great to learn more about the Beatles history. Really interesting and enjoyable. I'm going to buy her entire series on the history of John and The Beatles. 🎸🎹🎼

[@erniericardo8140]

Greetings Matt ✌️, You really do us Beatle fans a great service by having and giving us wonderful guests like Jude Kessler 👍👍 So I really want to Thank You for doing these interviews. I really savored this 3 part series, and I cant wait again until the next time you have Jude on Pop Goes the 60"s, and at this moment I am waiting for Jude's books to arrive at my doorstep, cant wait to read them-Cheers Matt🍺 and thanks again.

[@bzydad]

Great interview series Matt.

[@RichBriere]

1 hour ago I wrote in a comment that I'd not seen any other female authors......and now here I am. Fabulous! 🍎 ☮

[@BenjaminNavillus]

The great thing about Matt's podcasts is that (for me, anyway) I can listen to them multiple times as they play multiple roles: they're quite simply interesting, but the low key nature also means they are something to relax to as well. That's only two roles, I suppose but two more than most output on KZbin at least(!)

[@popgoesthe60s52]

Thank you for the warm comment, Ben!

[@robertnahum5823]

Great interview and discussion! 👏🏾 very informative! Thank you both for your work!:)

[@popgoesthe60s52]

I appreciate the kind words, Robert - more to come!

[@robertnahum5823]

@@popgoesthe60s52 Awesometacular!✌🏾

[@claraclown8036]

so glad i found this channel

[@popgoesthe60s52]

Welcome, Clara!

[@Steve68858]

Fantastic last part of your talks with Jude. Your channel just gets better. Thanks for giving your time to produce such great videos and interesting topics.

[@popgoesthe60s52]

Thank you for the kind words Stephen!

[@Pappahobo]

Just can't get enough of you two. Please, let us know if your books are translated into spanish. Even I understand enough, I do not want to loose anything. Tons of hughs.

[@shadowstealer2790]

It's so true that The Beatles' "artiness" which was clearly most embodied in Sutcliffe is not talked about enough, thanks for yet another illuminating perspective. There's a larger social/economic factor that underpins it that's worth noting. One aspect of Britain's post-war boom was the huge expansion in access to further and higher education in general and Art Schools in particular. For the first time ever lower middle class and working class kids who were bright but not traditionally academic had somewhere to go other than the factory or the army (conscription had ended too, big change!).Young people who had been given a new language by rock n roll were looking at said music through the intellectual prism of the British Art School, and that was clearly unprecedented and incendiary. The Beatles got there first of course, but look at the list of musicians that came out of what was a very progressive and encouraging environment by British standards; Charlie Watts, Keith Richards, Beck, Clapton, Page, Pete Townshend, Ray Davis, Ron Wood, Bowie, Syd Barrett, Bolan ,Eno, Bryan Ferry Pretty Things, The Creation...ouch. I don't think there was such an obvious shared background in a music scene in the USA until maybe the CBGB's crowd in the late 70's?

[@user-qm7nw7vd5s]

Fascinating INTERVIEW 👍👍

[@antoniodalfonso]

Matt, a necessary video at long last made available! Bravo!

[@jabbahursty]

tremendous exposition. i learned a lot

[@kellypeterson2625]

Hail Jude! What a great scholar. I have to purchase her books!

[@kellypeterson2625]

Matt is also a great scholar!

[@DrDooDah]

If Stuart's head injury happened in the UK in 1961, then the reason for them not taking him to a hospital would not have been money. All healthcare was free in the UK by that time.

[@ObjectiveDynamics]

Just a gentle correction for Jude Hessler: the Liverpool suburb of Huyton is pronounced "High-ton" and not "Hugh-ton"

[@chriscampanozzi6516]

Great information as always, thank you.

[@williamlangan5902]

I'm looking forward to her 1966 book of John.

[@rudolphguarnacci197]

What an interesting subject. I would never have thought there was so much to disuss so deeply.

[@shedboy18]

Great show, great guest. Really enjoyed it.

[@stephentoto6564]

Great story,George Harrison in an interview actually credits Stu with coming up with naming the group "The Beatles",but also said that John Lennon had a part in in it,so he said we will say Lennon-Sutcliffe.😀

[@DodgeDartSongs]

I so enjoyed this, Matt. Had no idea Stu’s importance to the Beatle saga.

[@jonvought700]

Very interesting stuff!

[@That_Boi_E]

Nice talk through! For my last 4-H Project back in 2018 I did a history poster on Stuart Sutcliffe hoping to educate people a little bit better about the artist but it turned into much avail and was barely noticed at all. But still he my favorite person to talk about in Beatles history though!

[@davidg2122]

Wow, another great part to this series, I did not know about John helping carry HALF Stuart's entry into the competition that paid for the bass.

[@keriford54]

Good episode, you provide a much needed focus on Stuart, still likely one of the most unexplored areas of Beatles history. He wrote many letters, it'd be great to have them collected, it'd also be good to get a good perspective on his artwork and show that his work isn't just abstract expressionism he did plenty of work that was more figurative. He was obviously highly influential on John. There is a fantastic book on the Hamburg period "Mach Schau in Hamburg" by Thorsten Knublauch, really rich in detail and pictures and it puts Stuart nicely in the frame. It is interesting George was obviously close and friendly with Stuart, the stories of Paul envying Pete's looks don't ring true, but there was obviously tension with Stuart.

[@popgoesthe60s52]

Thanks Keri - I'll check out that book!

[@keriford54]

@@popgoesthe60s52 Please do, I'd love to hear what you think of it, it is expensive, but it is so worth it, it is chock full of original documentation, photos you never will have seen and it is the most thorough in depth book on Hamburg that i have seen. edit: looks like it might be out of print already I'd be happy to scan sections for you if you can't get a copy.

[@BeesWaxMinder]

The most I’ve ever manhandled up and down Hope Street is a mattress! But I’ll think, tomorrow when I go down there as I do most days, about them manhandling “half a painting“ along to William Brown Street! Thanks😆👍

[@Hannah-vh3tm]

Lovely interview! I still can't get over the fact that both footage of Stuart in a Granada Studios audience asking Spike Milligan a question was erased AND Stuart's own experimental film was destroyed/lost. Klaus himself as said it's a tragedy that there isn't footage to show the world how wonderful this person was. The passport story was really interesting, but I couldn't find it anywhere in my own copy of the Stuart Sutcliffe Retrospective, and I've never come across it anywhere else...? Does anyone know where the source of that is?

[@gary6514]

In 1961 the NHS in the UK existed so people could get free healthcare. If Stu was taken to an A+E department he would have received medical attention.

[@wyliesmith4244]

Matt, This may be my favorite of your podcasts. I really thought that 11 volumes on Lennon would end up being sonic sludge, but Jude had an amazing amount of info at her fingertips. Nonetheless, I think back to her comments on the Bob Wooler punch up incident, and the fact that were so many stories about what happened, mostly because the story changes in each telling. So I do have some reservations about putting 10% faith into some of her reporting. But for a book, or books rather, on Lennon,Jude was able to criticize Brian Epstein for not understanding the jump from being a big fish in a little pond to a little fish in a big pond - at least as a manager. But Jude states facts without being negative. I liked the way she credited Stu with changing some of the style and approach of the Beatles. As Stu was an artist, I find it easy to believe that he push John to be an original artist in his genre as well. Despite buying the Beatles albums as they came out, I can't recall ever hearing of Sutcliffe until Klaus Voorman did the Revolver cover which prompted some writers to mention Hamburg, Klaus, Astrid, and Stu. presumably because the Revolver cover showed that the Beatles still were connected to their Hamburg roots. Ever since then, I have been looking to learn more about Stu - he was the coolest looking of them all, even the way he held his bass in pictures. But both the times and the Beatles changed so quickly that Sutcliffe was, at most, a footnote. And I will request Manfred Mann as a subject, becuase of the music, and that Voorman joined the band in the d'AQbo years.

[@cyclesgoff9768]

Medical care . Emergency or otherwise was free in the UK in 1961 as it is now.

[@didierkattic1385]

Stuart is the Coils Is the Jimmy dean of Liverpool Fist time l see a photo of Him . Artci master 🎨🎸 Long Live Stuart sutcliffe

[@CartersRemasters]

Lennon gets a lot of hate these days, but the story of him bringing Stu's passport with him to America, that's a sweet thing to do.

[@t221000]

It's wonderful we have Jude to get to the bottom of the story of what happened to Stuart because it's awful that so many authors repeated the lie about John kicking him a long time before his death.

[@jeffclement2468]

Wow. So much new information for those of us who think they've heard just about all of the story. Turns out, a lot of what we thought we knew was erroneous anyway. (I never paid any mind to that weasel Goldman). Jude def sounds like someone honest and trustworthy. My mind is swimming with all these new details. Thanks for having her Matt. Or "did she have you?" 😉 ✌

[@tunafish2521]

Excellent!

[@cynthiaforsythe8989]

A quote from this article struck me with parallels: “It split the Beatles, this affair of the heart. She was an artist from an upper class family. She came from a foreign country that the previous generation in Britain had fought an all-out war to defeat. One Beatle was besotted with her, ready and willing to forsake the band for his new romance. She was always at his side; the intense couple even began dressing and wearing their hair alike. Paul McCartney was jealous, venting his frustration in petty ways that boiled over into the group’s professional work. The name of this lady was… Astrid Kirchherr. It would happen again, and eerily so, when Yoko Ono appeared on the scene six years later. The personalities involved were different, but a similar stew of forces was present in both situations. When the Beatles story is examined as a whole, Yoko can be seen as an amalgam, combining the earlier roles of Astrid - the influential, foreign artistic woman - and of Stuart Sutcliffe - the brilliant but musically limited force who occupied much of John’s attention at the group’s expense. These striking parallels are worth exploring for any light they may shed on the eventual breakup of the Beatles.” Source: daytrippin.com/2011/05/08/the-ballad-of-john-yoko-stuart-and-astrid/

[@popgoesthe60s52]

Yes, the parallels are hard to ignore!

[@Kieop]

Thanks for the link. Great article. Gives credence to something Yoko Ono may have said, if you believe that John Green is a credible source. He claims that she believed Paul was interested in her and that was at the root of his jealousy of their relationship. But of course, most sources claim that she was worried about his closeness to John, not his interest in her. John always characterized it in terms of losing their partnership as well. The article itself posits that due to its timing, Paul was envious of the relationship itself, not jealous of either party as an individual. It says that Paul is in a fragile state having lost Jane. If Jude is correct and Stu was a surrogate for Julia, then something similar may have been at play here too. You see, Paul also lost Julia. Julia felt sorry for him, having lost his mother, and took him under her wing. When John started acting out, Paul probably felt that he could subsume his own grief (which was something that was probably confusing to him and therefore impossible to process -- after all, she was John's mother, not his) into being a rock for John, but then suddenly John had Stu and Paul lost this role for John. Then Stu had Astrid and John still had Stu. So Paul lashes out in both cases, b/c he no longer knows how he fits and it causes an identity crisis. Interesting to speculate. Disclaimer: this is merely a theory that occurred to me right now in this moment. I do not even necessarily subscribe to it myself. The article also has great insight into why John thought it wouldn't be a big deal to bring Yoko into the band. Oh John.

[@DB-de6bq]

I’m a Brit. So John is a my fellow countryman. Brits have a very special relationship with the Beatles, unlike any other country. I grew up during Beatlemania, played in a band in across the UK. Went nowhere of course, but it was great fun. Went on to join the Royal Marines; two combat tours of the Middle East I served. Did my bit for Queen and Country. Played Lennon songs for the lads back at forward operating base. Some got him. Some not. What all resented and hated was fact that John was killed in America by a Yank. Only in the States would this obscene tragedy occur. Gun murdering head cases the lot of the States. I know. In truth, us military Brits barely tolerated the arrogant, swaggering, bull shitting brag of the Yanks. We were forever covering their ass, despite the fact that their friendly fire killed so many of my mates. The biggest mistake John Lennon ever made was living in NYC. Being from Liverpool I’ve talked with his family members over the years. They truly lost John when chose the States, first emotionally and later physically. Here’s these useless talking heads, shooting off their mouth, an American pastime, who know SFA. I’m writing this because John has no voice. He’s one of ours. Always was.

[@tats7859]

Ya and us yanks kick your Britts ass in 1776, and if you wanna blame a whole country for what 1 piece of shit did that's completely up too you... but did it ever occure to you or any other brain dead Britt how long do you think that useless pile of scum would last if they let him out, he not only took John from your country he took him from his 2 sons and the rest of the world... he should have been given a death sentence but how he got away with murder is beyond me but had he been killed in the uk he'd already been released...

[@SeltaebEht]

very enlightening

[@Beatles60]

Loved this, too. See our recent 60 year send off for Stu.

[@patrickmoreau7592]

Bleeding at the ears is a classic sign of head trauma In 1961 there was not much medicine could of done for him but if he was treated he might of lasted

[@joshmalone7258]

Really fascinating stuff, I'm completely enthralled and will be reading these books very soon. After understanding the depth of John and Stu's friendship in the context that Stu essentially fills the void in John's heart left by the tragic death of Julia, the image of Stu Sutcliffe on the Sgt. Pepper's cover seems even more morbid than it did before. It makes me wonder how John ever approved of it, or was it his idea? Do you think that was tongue and cheek John being droll and humorous, or was it something stone cold serious, like them still not really over the way he passed and not able to forget the haunting image of him from that last year of his life and perhaps saying it wasn't all peach fuzz and roses becoming The Beatles, or something like that, or just something else entirely? I can't help but think there was a definite statement in there somewhere, where the overall theme of the album cover was this unlikely, or rather impossible, gathering of all these larger than life mythical type of figures, at least as far as they were concerned. Albeit, a lot of major events and experiences were packed into those 5 or 6 years between Hamburg and Pepper, but a tragic loss of someone so close to you, basically family, still hangs around in the mind for several years, I would have to presume that in 1967 the memory of Stu was and the way he suffered and the rapid deterioration of his once young vibrant health was still devastating, to at least John, if not all 4 of them, including Ringo, since he would've known Stu also. In there place, I could see including an image of a fallen bandmate and brother in arms, but I think I and most people would've gone probably with a stouter healthy and vibrant image of said person, but as you said, and I definitely agree, that these guys were deep, they were thinkers, and they always encouraged their audience to be the same, which is why I personally love them so much, and probably why there exists this community of all of us who are still fascinated and even are willing to obsess over minor Beatle-related details after all these decades.

[@sethberenberg7777]

Are there any surviving recordings of the early Beatles that have Stuart playing?

[@popgoesthe60s52]

He plays of 4 tracks released on Anthology I.

[@tomasfagerberg6323]

When I listen to Jude, I'm constantly thinking: where did she get that from? Is it really true? And then when Matt ask her where she got that information of Stu telling John how great he will be, she refers to a movie called Backbeat. A movie?! I think that says everything about her as a Beatle historian. How can I believe anything that she says about the Beatles after that?

[@popgoesthe60s52]

Well, Tom let me offer this. I do know that several primary sources (namely Quarrymen members) were interviewed to build the story so I believe that film research is what Jude is referring to. I would also like to explore that research as well but it's not always easy to understand what is reliable and what is not.

[@tomasfagerberg6323]

@@popgoesthe60s52 Maby you're right, but I get this feeling to a lot of her stories, that it is a lot of wishing and maybe not so much truth in it. I've heard to many woke people who even claims John and Paul were lovers. But I'm always open to reconsidering my positions.

[@popgoesthe60s52]

@@tomasfagerberg6323 it’s proper for us to question any source and their motivation. Time and time again we find people ‘inserting’ themselves into the Beatles story.

[@reneaceves8820]

This account of the ill-fated blow to Sutcliffe's head squares with the book by the band's first manager, which I read forty years ago called The Man who Gave Away the Beatles or something like that.

[@gerrysongs4170]

A subject that I find interesting is the use and abuse of stereo in the 1960’s. Listen to Sound of silence in headphones for example. (It sucks) so many bad mixes, recordings makes a huge opportunity for mining songs to re-record. Mathematically all songs have already been written.

[@paulcarpenter999]

"What if" speculation is irresistible in the Beatles story - If Stuart had not died, I'm sure Lennon would have wanted him around after the Beatles' rise to fame and riches. I imagine Lennon would have bought him an art gallery (like Pete Shotton's grocery store), and when Lennon entered his 1965 malaise period he may have reached out to Stuart like he later did to Yoko (perhaps alienating the partnership with McCartney in the process). And what role may Stuart have played in Apple? Ahhh, what might have been...

[@antoniodalfonso]

Ms Kessler is a castle of treasures!

[@johnvanstone5336]

What does it mean that Stu could not afford medical attention, the NHS was available for free, so what does Jude mean by that statement ?

[@popgoesthe60s52]

I know that Stu refused medical attention when the band was insisting he go to the hospital. I think Jude was suggesting Stu 'thought they couldn't afford it?' but I should have asked her to clarify that. I do know that Stuart also skipped a doctor appointment some days after the incident, so he was not cooperative.

[@Hannah-vh3tm]

@@popgoesthe60s52 I recall both Pauline and Astrid saying various times that Stuart was the kind of guy to brush off seeking help for his health issues. Probably more to do with societal expectations on young men 'being strong' and perhaps not wanting to face the reality of his illnesses.

[@carlpanzram2130]

It means that Jude comes out with twaddle.

[@Kieop]

The Cathedral quote sounds apocryphal to me. The fact that it's widely disseminated in Liverpool but no one knows the origin makes it suspect. That it is from Backbeat lends itself to doubt IMO. It sounds like movie dialogue romanticism.

[@jhnlawyer2685]

Can you talk about Procol Harum

[@popgoesthe60s52]

They are on my very long list. They have some very strong songs so stay tuned!

[@carlpanzram2130]

Q.What is your source for that Cathedral story? A. The film Backbeat and er...I can't remember. 🤣

[@popgoesthe60s52]

Jude said the source came from research on the Back Beat film when several Quarrymen and others were interviewed specifically for the film.

[@carlpanzram2130]

@@popgoesthe60s52 Unimpeachable, then. The film that gave Stu a Liverpool accent and had John singing Long Tall Sally! How would she even get access to that material, anyway? It's funny how sketchy anecdotal stuff is one minute dismissed (John kicking Stu in the head) and the next taken as rock solid. I'm reminded of a story about Eric Hobsbawm, but enough already.

[@jayburdification]

John has literally been recorded, saying in interviews that he got to ‘Beatles’ because he wanted a similar name to the Crickets. “When you said it, it was creepy, crawly things, when you read it, it was beat music.” Why should the narrative suddenly change from this?

[@popgoesthe60s52]

The quote you offered comes from an American interview on the 1964 tour. The Beatles often downplayed their past and John never mentions Stuart in any interview. He seemed to avoid that topic.

[@BeesWaxMinder]

22:12 - I certainly can see a connotation/allusion in the phrase “flaming pie“ but it has nothing to do with Stu’, so🤷‍♂️

[@antoniodalfonso]

a link to Stuart S.’s artworks

[@popgoesthe60s52]

www.stuartsutcliffe.org

[@Gilbert_Dice_Gottfried]

13:27 I’d say Stuart was better looking, with his delicate features, than Pete best. Especially when he got his hair cut into the classic moptop. I’ve always been surprised people said Pete was the best looking. But I’m not exactly qualified to judge. Astrid, Stuart, and Klaus all sound like such cool people. You don’t see many people like that nowadays. I wonder what would’ve happened if Stu never died. Poor guy. He really rivaled Paul as John’s right hand man. I liked how Jude put it. Paul was someone John looked over to as a partner but Stu was someone who John looked UP to as something of a role model. I love the reference to great merceybeat bands. I forgot about the remo 4 they’re awesome. Also the searchers and the liverbirds. Gerry and the pacemakers are so great. When Gerry was asked in an interview about his manager Brian Epstein he says, “ooh! Munnee! Can you imagine if John ACTUALLY kicked Stuart? Obviously false but that would bring a whole ‘nother layer of tragedy to the Beatles’ story. I feel like respect was something john valued too much. John was quite a monster at times but he seemed like the type of guy who has a very specific sense of honor that he’d uphold with his life. It makes a lot of sense that there would be ruffians in Hamburg that would do that to Stu. Especially in the types of places the Beatles played in hamburg. Maybe Stu had a delicate composition, especially because the other Beatles never struck me as fighters. Except I heard John did get into fights. They really were peaceful guys. The world still has a lot to learn.

[@markturnbull4165]

I've read it was the poet Royston Ellis who baked the famous "flaming pie", and that it was he (at least according to him) who put the "A" in Beatles. I'm not sure Mr. Lewisohn agrees with Mr. Ellis on this last point.

[@popgoesthe60s52]

I had heard about the pie coming from Ellis but the "a" in Beatles, not from Ellis. It's funny how we remember things.

[@carlpanzram2130]

I thought it was an image pinched from The Goons.

[@popgoesthe60s52]

@@carlpanzram2130 Wrong again, Pansy.

[@rogerlunde8668]

Lennon talk about Stuart Sutcliffe in the famous Rolling Stone intervju " Lennon Remembers, " He's talking about Beatles myter, he name Pete Best and sarcastikly " Stuart Sutcliffes mother who write in England "that he was The Beatles."

[@GeoZeppelin1979]

20:34 im sorry but that just isnt true,lennon said it himself 'i had a dream,a man came on a flaming pie and said you are the beatles with an A and we are' phil mccartney even recorded an album/song called flaming pie that derived from this

[@Springheeledjim5]

Lennon also said he was the walrus and the egg man. Who do you believe?

[@GeoZeppelin1979]

@@Springheeledjim5 the walrus

[@famboyoot705]

Didn't eat British food, instead they ate Scottish food? Say English, not British. Every country in Britain is British. And the difference between English food and Scottish food is negligible, a few variations here and there, but otherwise very similar. And we have the same holidays, again with a few variations like Burns night etc.

[@charleswilmot7612]

I thought the same thing myself.

[@scottbrown4361]

Amazin🎉- sad 😢about Stu - so sad

[@intelligencelimited2708]

It was Stuart that told them to write their own songs? She's full of historical nuggets.

[@hiphopdylan]

Brilliant interview... But saying that they couldn't afford a medic for Stuart after he was kicked in the head after the gig in the UK in 1961 is not plausible... The National Health Service (NHS) was established in 1948 and since then all health care in the UK has been free..

[@popgoesthe60s52]

That's a valid point. We do know that Stuart refused to go for an x-ray shortly after. Astrid's mother, who had a bit of money, did pay for him to see specialists but no one could figure it out.

[@hiphopdylan]

@@popgoesthe60s52 Thank you for your informative reply...

[@thomaspappalardo7589]

It’s a very good video, but I do want to point out that according to according to people who work in the medical profession, the fight is unlikely to be the cause of Stu’s death given the timeline. Especially since several people who attended the art college did say Stu did suffer migraines and poor balance even then. A tumor is more likely the case in my book. He had a host of medical problems including (when X-rayed) a spot near the entrance to his lungs and a grumbling appendix.

[@popgoesthe60s52]

He also had acid reflux. Yeah, he was a sickly person.

[@bonsaibiker5378]

to much of ' i think' rather than just the facts for me but iam glad everyone is enjoying it

[@Sweetish_Jeff_]

This was such a joy to watch and listen to. I feel like I’m really getting to know The Beatles and their inner circle as people. I try to see them as people and not stars. They’re as flawed and as f’d up as the rest of us. They just happen to be way more talented. And, they’re good people overall.

[@invisibleray6987]

This woman is totally BONKERS 😂😂😂

[@michaelrochester48]

Did you have ever heard that Stuart’s sister Paula has maintained for years that John Lennon possibly was the cause of the hemorrhages? Bill Harry the newspaper man that champion the Beatles in Liverpool also said that side clip was actually a very good bass player despite what some of the Beatles said because they were forgetting their own mythology at that point

[@annakermode6646]

They’re just talking about it at 28 minutes

[@petemccarry2326]

Albert Goldman has established a reputation as the Norman Mailor of rock biographies, but it sounds like Kessler is conflating two separate events, a McCartney-Sutcliffe onstage punchout and a mass thrashing by anonymous Germans.

[@jabbahursty]

it seems almost every early 60s bands has trouble with the boyfriends. very different times

[@leefitzpeter4287]

If Stuart was injured in the UK he wouldn't have to pay for medical treatment.