John Leslie - What is the Doomsday Argument?

[@theotormon]

Great vid but what about the doomsday argument?

[@chrisc1257]

It's all there between the lines and between the fangs!

[@adrianflo6481]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/h53Vm2efepx5d5Y here it is

[@infinitemonkey917]

It looks like you got the wrong title and description for the video.

[@mikedziuba8617]

There is a third kind of immortality that doesn't yet exist, but probably will exist in the future, if humanity survives and prospers long enough. It's a technological kind of immortality, where people will use technology to become a kind of cyborgs and store all of their personalities and experiences, that they will be able to back up and transfer to a new body, when their original body is worn out. In modern terms, a person's soul is simply information that makes up this person's mind. It's conceivable that with cyborg modifications it might be possible in the future to record and store such information and keep transferring it to a new body, every time the existing body is worn out. This way you can preserve your personality and keep learning from you past experiences indefinitely. Which is the reason why people want to preserve their personality and their memory from the past. If you don't remember your past mistakes and failures, then you are bound to keep repeating them again and again in each re-incarnation. Which is a kind of hell, that a lot of people wouldn't want to live in. That's why the goal of people in Buddhism is to stop their cycle of re-incarnation. The soul of a computer is its operating system and the programs this operating system runs. This soul is pure information. It's not made of any physical substance. People also have such a soul that consists of pure information. But people haven't yet invented and developed the technology for recording and storing human type of soul for preservation and future re-incarnation. This technology doesn't yet exist. But there is no fundamental reason to think that such technology isn't possible, and that it won't exist in the future.

[@nicofonce]

I agree with that. At some point we will be able to 'upload' our minds and brain to some sort of digital form.

[@WestOfEarth]

What is immortality really? If my consciousness, personality, and 'data' in my brain is downloaded to a computer which can presumably repair itself indefinitely, is that immortality? Or in the near future if geneticists are able to stop aging, and we simply continue to exist is that immortality? It seems in this clip they are discussing the existence of an immortal soul which exists after our 'consciousness' winks out.

[@laryxislust6664]

but who is going to repair the computer?

[@Spark-lm7ly]

From the materialistic point of view WE HAVE THE SAME ELEMENTS as anything else in the Universe whether something is described as ALIVE or NOT ALIVE : so when our present state of existence TRANSITS into a different state ( which is UNKNOWN to us ) the disintegration of the elements does not preserve our PERSONALITY which we expect or wish to continue : natural recourse has to be a DISSOLUTION , a MERGER into the FUNDAMENTAL SUBSTRATUM where all the individual elements could be re-used to create something totally NEW : you can't put a constraint on INFINITY of materials available in the Cosmos to preslect or reselect the earlier configuration : THAT WOULD BE ABSURD ! The word REINCARNATION was invented only to suppress the FEAR OF THE UNKNOWN PROCESS OF DEATH and the PAIN OF SUDDENLY GETTING REMOVED FROM THE FAMILIAR SEEMINGLY SECURE ENVIRONMENT : And as Time moves on, you start forgetting the Past and the Memories associated with it : YOU LET GO AND CARRY ON !

[@jeffamos9854]

What is the cat argument ? Good luck arguing with a cat.

[@jeffamos9854]

@Lucy Rane won't argue with that. 🐈🐱

[@Bill..N]

Mr Leslie did a fine job! The Block universe theory is indeed our leading contender in this discussion and it DOES mean the past never goes away.... ALL of us feel 100% conscious at any given moment, and yet we've ALREADY died in some existent FUTURE moment.. Certain we'll placed observers could see either result.. Sooo, we ARE immortal..! Act appropriately..PEACE.

[@xspotbox4400]

Can we have brains made from light, does light think?

[@alriktyrving5051]

So if the past never goes away, what does it mean for the individual once he has died? Does his life simply rewind or what will he experience?

[@jamessmith989]

@@xspotbox4400 there was a spark of light the moment the sperm entered the egg.

[@Bill..N]

@@alriktyrving5051 Yes indeed friend, WHAT happens ONCE we experience our last dying moments.. All that we can say is, if the block universe theory is right, our experiences, self awareness AND consciousness, would be eternally embedded Within the structure. Could it be as you suggest, a continuous series of rewinds? Maybe. It seems to me an energy input of some sort would be required to reboot such a ROM like system.. But we're just speculating anyway, right?

[@Bill..N]

@@alriktyrving5051 In science, we're honest about what we DON'T know.. NOT committed to superstitious dogmas which demand we shut down our critical thinking and accept what we've been handed down for centuries to believe, no matter how Fantastical and ritualistic it is.... An unsolicited and humble opinion..

[@alriktyrving5051]

if the past never goes away, what does it mean for the individual once he has died, according to the Einsteinean physics model of immortality? Does his life simply rewind or what will he experience?

[@johnbrzykcy3076]

The "rewind" button on my tape deck is broken!

[@rioksek8930]

Who tf knows maybe you become a 4d being or get reincarnated into a different world.

[@jamezkpal2361]

I dont want to live forever I just want this 8:38 back.

[@TheUltimateSeeds]

Kuhn asked: *“...Assuming immortality exists, what form might it take for us sentient, unified personalities after our death?...”* I suggest that the only form in which a sentient being who is in possession of immortality (eternal life) could exist in and not go insane due to boredom, would be the same form as God. In other words, the only form that makes any sense in living eternally would be one in which you are imbued with the same potential as God and capable of creating and maintaining a universe that is constructed from the mental fabric of your very own being. It would be a forever growing and forever evolving form in which you eventually reach a point of being able to replicate yourself by conceiving your own offspring within yourself, just as the Creator of this universe has done with us. _______

[@johnbrzykcy3076]

Hey there... I sort of like your idea of us "creating and maintaining a universe that is constructed from the mental fabric of your very own being." It kind of sounds like God will use our imagination to explore the Cosmos and maintain it. Maybe that's why Jesus said "I go to prepare a place for you." A place where we can use our talents and imagination like a child filled with awe.

[@TheUltimateSeeds]

@@johnbrzykcy3076 Hi John, I don't think it will be a situation of God using our imagination to explore *His* Cosmos, but more of each of us using our imagination to create our own cosmos (our own universe) within our own separate minds. It is the ultimate outcome of what it means to be created in God's image.

[@johnbrzykcy3076]

@@TheUltimateSeeds I don't think I explained my idea correctly. I meant that God will allow us to use our imagination to explore His Cosmos but, as you said, to also create "our own cosmos". But I don't think our cosmos will be just within the mind. It will be something real that we can sense with "eyes" and "ears" etc. Do I make better sense now? Sometimes I have problems with words and language. I trust we won't have such "limitations" in paradise.

[@TheUltimateSeeds]

@@johnbrzykcy3076 Yes, that makes more sense. However, don't assume that when I say that the cosmos we create within our mind won't look, feel, sound, taste, and smell every bit as real as what we are presently experiencing in God's universe (God's mind). I mean, think of how real everything appears to be during a vivid dream and then imagine it (our mental holography) becoming fully-real after we awaken into full consciousness of our mind after death. Now just imagine having eternal life to shape and give order to the fabric of your mind. What I am trying to suggest here is that however the contents and features of this universe appear to God (in terms of "realness"), likewise, the contents and features of our own minds will appear similarly to us (again, after death). _______

[@johnbrzykcy3076]

@@TheUltimateSeeds "Now just imagine having eternal life to shape and give order to the fabric of your mind." I just hope the "fabric" doesn't tear before I get there !

[@xspotbox4400]

What do we mean by life, first 3 years after we're born our mind is not yet conscious, youth is fun but meaningless, because we don't know much at that age, third of our lives we sleep and we can't remember most of what happened. Worst problems are aging and illness, body is constantly changing, every morning we look slightly different. We feel most alive when we do something pleasurable, exciting or useful, but that is not always possible. What is there to do in after life, is there anything interesting to see, how do we move around, are we alone or can we enjoy company of a beautiful ladies, those questions seems way more important to me than physical possibilities.

[@mustafaelbahi7979]

Although Pascal is a Christian, he has a good bet for the emergency

[@xspotbox4400]

@@mustafaelbahi7979 Pascal explained migraine.

[@theotormon]

Nice essay but I don't see why you say that little children are not conscious. They might have not developed a sense of self but they are experiencing subjective awareness, sensations, and thoughts.

[@xspotbox4400]

@@theotormon Are they, i don't think mind grow together with brain, it doesn't exist in conscious state until certain age. This is the problem with our understanding of process, to be a human is a concept, no such things in biology. Cell doesn't have any organs, lump of cells doesn't feel anything, even early sensations are a chemical phenomena. Little brain can't produce thoughts, must branch to psychosomatic and instinctual system first. Why am i telling you this, you were an organism once, just like me, try to remember how first sensations were, like flashes of lights and colors, smells, feel on a skin and such. Light is special, kids doesn't understand it all come from sun, light just is for them, like all objects shine and beams shot from their eyes where they focus their sight. This is why we can remember scenes from our childhood as atmospheric, full of some mystical energies and bizarre obscurities, devoid of physical causes and meanings. It's because mind can do logic, it's not natural process but must be trained by constructive thinking and shaping of emotional intelligence, nothing we were born with, all is earned.

[@xspotbox4400]

@@theotormon It's a process, organs grow in phases, first something happens, than some other chemical reaction begin to take place and so on. More and more brain functions emerge with growth, if something goes wrong, some unfortunate people never develop self awareness and can't experience mature conscious state. Brain start as a very simple organ, doesn't have any cognitive functions before we're born because body must grow to functional size before brain can establish a coherent, holistic sense of self. It would be weird to be conscious before cells became fully functional organic parts.

[@jamessmith989]

Isabel Piczek particle physicist says that the image left on the shroud of Turin was an event horizon.

[@jamessmith989]

@D L Luke lol that's coming from someone who believes Christians are the antichrist. That's just perverted.

[@jamessmith989]

@D L Luke here kitty kitty...

[@jamessmith989]

@D L Luke don't worry about the spelling. I'm lucky to be alive. You are still ignoring how the image got there. Can't explain it can you kitty?

[@jamessmith989]

@D L Luke here kitty kitty...

[@jamessmith989]

@D L Luke it's ok Duke we understand. Your way behind the curve. Speed up or get out the way. Run kitty run...

[@govindagovindaji4662]

CLICK BAIT - NO DOOMSDAY ARGUMENT HERE

[@denizbesikcioglu]

I tried listening this at 1.5x speed but that didn’t help it either..

[@glynemartin]

Immortality for many means the immortality of human perception & human identity.

[@thomasridley8675]

A very self centered outlook. That only a very tiny portion of humanity will be saved to populate heaven, or what ever you want to call it. Where does that leave all the rest of humanity ? None of the religions seem to be aware that this point is even in play.

[@thomasridley8675]

@@rubiks6 Well, first there would have to be any credibility in your version of god. And since there isn't. I feel pretty sure of my position. And are you sure your version isn't a false god. Made up to just build a political and financial power base. A con like all the others we have had over the generations. Too spend your life supporting a con job that takes you nowhere. Now that is the sickest joke of all.

[@khufu8699]

There is no question we live on. Our primary spot is spirit, these little incarnations (as human and other) are good learning and experience grounds. But after so many times, you have your fill, and do not want to reincarnate anymore and just stay in spirit doing other important jobs for the rest.

[@thomasridley8675]

Now that would be hell. Living life after life with no way to use the knowledge you gained from previous lives. That sounds more pointless than our current situation is.

[@stevenhird1837]

Khufu what the f-k are you talking about.

[@KonradZielinski]

Can you provide any evidence that spirits exist?

[@jamessmith989]

There is some truth to that statement... Jesus said "you must be born again"

[@khufu8699]

@@thomasridley8675 Thomas, that is what I thought to for awhile. But I realized that was my limited point of view of just this incarnation. When you open your view to that of your spirit which has lived maybe 100s of lives, you gleen a different perspective on it. We don't have to do it, but we do. Obviously something in it for us that we like.

[@jimcolegrove5442]

Man's reasoning. Designer of all things explains it in the scriptures. Evidence is in physics and intelligent design.

[@thomasridley8675]

If this is intelligent design i would like their powers revoked for general incompetence.

[@jamessmith989]

@@thomasridley8675 theirs a war going on soldier.

[@thomasridley8675]

@@jamessmith989 Hmmm ! Which war are you referring too ? There are so many, it's hard too keep up.

[@jamessmith989]

@@thomasridley8675 it's the one we can't see. The UFO disclosure is coming.

[@thomasridley8675]

@@jamessmith989 I can hardly wait to see this ! Can you hurry up, times a passing and I don't want to miss the expected comments. I can't stick around forever.

[@thomasridley8675]

Where was this even going ? No conclusions just more questions. Sorry, im mean just more opinions on the question of god.

[@majmage]

I mean it's a video about life after death, so what'd you expect? :P It's only divided into (A) rational people admitting we don't know due to the lack of evidence, and (B) irrational people who each claim they know a different thing that happen after death, without evidence.

[@johnbrzykcy3076]

@@majmage But what about category (C) ??

[@thomasridley8675]

@@majmage Agreed !

[@jeffamos9854]

@@johnbrzykcy3076 category (D) comes after (C) ??

[@maximwinter7998]

Where is the doomsday argument 🥴

[@chrisc1257]

What is a Jazz Discharge Party Hat?

[@zedwms]

I call it the Circumpsyche.

[@douglasfaichnie]

Please consider addressing the issue of virtually all your guests referring to a God as ‘He’. This is ridiculous. These guests are highly educated. It brings the whole channel crashing down, and I happen to enjoy the discussions apart from this laziness.

[@ferdinandkraft857]

Let them call Him however they want!

[@johnbrzykcy3076]

@@ferdinandkraft857 I sort of agree, but I don't like to see offensive, swear words.

[@traceurGeorge]

you watch the videos on this channel and your main point worth commenting is that your upset that the guests use the term 'he' when speaking about God... They are not referring to God as a 'He' insomuch as they might call God any name under the sun, John, Lucy, Buddha or... Douglas.

[@douglasfaichnie]

@@ferdinandkraft857 I doubt I could stop them. Surely ‘it’ would be more appropriate?

[@douglasfaichnie]

@@traceurGeorge yes. I would have thought ‘it’ was more appropriate. Referring to an entity beyond comprehension as a ‘he’ seems a little lazy.

[@jamesruscheinski8602]

conscious immortality?

[@christopherellis2663]

Clever clatter Blither blather

[@Seth-ng5oy]

I seriously read "The Doomguy Theory."

[@lucianmaximus4741]

QDOS

[@Zen_Power]

Take the red pill and find out the truth......

[@LeeGee]

We're all going to find out in the end. What's the rush?

[@SpicyMcNuggetz]

@Lee Gee We shall all find out the truth... only to forget it once again, and have the process start all over.

[@Zen_Power]

Some people just have a thirst for knowledge. An urgency to know the truth about this world. To have an answer for any possible question they could think of.

[@SpicyMcNuggetz]

@Stefano Portoghesi Regardless of if one believes in God or Gods... I believe it is in our nature to question and desire the truth/answers. As irrelevant as it may be... since we won’t fully know until we reach that point... which in my mind restarts the process in a flash, and once again all is forgotten. I think when we question... we receive certain glimpses of truth and ah ha moments. Unfortunately, most of us shrug these moments off... and go on about our short existences.

[@SpicyMcNuggetz]

@Zeal! We won’t know that we are dead... just as we didn’t know we were being born.

[@renaissanceman5847]

Everyone is an atheist... until the plane they are in starts falling out of the sky...

[@glynemartin]

@Stefano Portoghesi What do you know what death "brings" or not.? All that you have ever known which was "brought to you" came whilst you were alive, present & aware...not?

[@johnbrzykcy3076]

@Stefano Portoghesi Hmmmm.... "a permanent wooden 'home"? Do you have any blueprints for constructing such ?

[@xspotbox4400]

@@johnbrzykcy3076 Home is where we were born, this fact can never be destroyed, only transformed or exchanged for another home we choose. Coffins are out, everybody get cremated this days, it's quick, clean and take very little space.

[@johnbrzykcy3076]

@Stefano Portoghesi Hey, that's a good one. But the carpenter shop in my local cemetery went out of business. It was closed when a "carpenter" named Jesus invited all the "residents" to His wedding party!

[@johnbrzykcy3076]

@Stefano Portoghesi Okay.. that's a good one too. Our worldviews certainly differ but I dislike being negative so I should respect your metaphor. The Jesus that I trust is completely opposite from the one you talk about. Hmmm... that's interesting. Anyhow... enough discussions for today. PEACE to all

[@lucianmaximus4741]

Kudos -- 444 Gematria -- 🗽