John McWhorter: The Limits of Antiracism

Since the killing of George Floyd in May 2020, Americans have been engaged in a vast discussion on the state of race in America. Like many topics in the country, the issue has become a divisive, tense debate about how the country faces its racist past, the meaning of systemic racism, the role of critical race theory in K-12 schools and universities, and what it means to be "anti-racist" during this challenging moment in American civic life.
Renowned linguist and award-winning writer John McWhorter feels this debate and discussion has been dominated by a "woke mob" that subscribes to theories that are illogical, unreachable and, ultimately, racist in their impact, however unintentional those effects may be. In his book Woke Racism: How a New Religion Has Betrayed Black America, McWhorter argues that an "illiberal neoracism," disguised as antiracism, is hurting Black communities and weakening the American social fabric.
In Woke Racism, McWhorter reveals the workings of this new progressive approach toward race, from the original sin of “white privilege” to the weaponization of cancel culture to ban heretics. His book sets out to show how efforts that claim to “dismantle racist structures” are actually harming his fellow Black Americans by infantilizing Black people, setting Black students up for failure, and passing policies that disproportionately damage Black communities. Some may call it “antiracism,” but to McWhorter, it features a racial essentialism that’s barely distinguishable from racist arguments of the past.
Please join us for an important discussion on the limits of antiracism with an increasingly visible writer who has a different roadmap to justice that he believes will help, not hurt, Black America.
NOTES
NOVEMBER 2, 2021
SPEAKERS
John McWhorter
Associate Professor of English and Comparative Literature, Columbia University; Author, Woke Racism: How a New Religion Has Betrayed Black America
Debra J. Saunders
Fellow, Chapman Center for Citizen Leadership; Columnist, Creators Syndicate
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[@gaylemc2692]

I love his Brilliance and his demeanor. Such a gracious man.

[@laurapalmer01]

Gracious? Really? He basically laughed at the interviewer’s question.

[@thehillbillygamer2183]

Sjw's woke people they're not good people that's one thing he's wrong about they are power hungry tin plated little dictators they are evil pieces of s*** human garbage

[@matrixlone]

@@laurapalmer01 ..a gracious laugh...

[@charlieconneely]

I've listened to at least 4 separate hour long discussions with John at this point. I just can't get sick of listening to this man speak.

[@normabrien8331]

He is brilliant, and I totally agree with his reasoning. His power is in his wisdom.

[@arguescreamholler]

He's full of fanatical conservative bullshit. He's a linguistic! Not a psychologist, Sociologist, Social Scientist. But he's going to suggest ideological, sociological solutions that's been conceived by racist white people? On the outside looking in.

[@benjaminperez969]

@@arguescreamholler ad hominem | straw man | bad faith

[@andrewmowbray7035]

@@arguescreamholler fanatical conservative bullshit? Give one example. One.

[@jaed2630]

@@arguescreamholler must be nice to sit in your ivory tower. And paint every speakers conclusions with blanket statements like that. You obviously haven't read his work. And psychology is not an exact science , like say mathematics. The universities are adrift with bias and bad faith actors.

[@yourewelcomeamericathepodc1601]

John’s resting face at the onset of every interview is priceless lol love me some John McWhorter

[@thehillbillygamer2183]

Woke people are not good people sjws are not good people they are human garbage they are power hungry maniacs they're evil and every sense of the word

[@thehillbillygamer2183]

The only privilege in this country is the privilege of class there are millions of people of color that are upper class they're a millions of white people that are the lowest class and class is how much money in the bank you have what kind of title you have your job what kind of degree you have if you don't have a degree at all that's usually lower class

[@JOHN----DOE]

He is so, so right. FORTY years ago, I was called a "racist" because I pointed out that a potential candidate to teach Spanish in COLLEGE couldn't speak English well enough to function as a colleague in a larger faculty context (being part of a department that taught both English lit and other languages). The other faculty were indulging in a charity act. I thought the students and other professors deserved someone educated to a minimum university-level standard. I also committed the unpardonable sin of pointing out that no one in a Spanish, or any other, university abroad would hire someone who couldn't speak the language of that country--or hire a non-native in the first place, because they protect their countryperson's jobs. Facts are anathema to these people.

[@robertbentley3589]

Pure piffle.

[@TRUTHorSTFU]

@@robertbentley3589 Care to elaborate as to what exactly you consider piffle?

[@machtnichtsseimann]

I know he's a Linguist, but his smart and cheeky play on words is quite enjoyable. EX: His reference to writing "a book that doesn't smile". Never heard that phrase before. Love it.

[@atticuscoleman23]

High school English teacher here and from my experience, CRT is NOT being taught in the classroom in my Kentucky school and I teach at a historically black high school. That being said, I love John and his Lexicon Valley podcast.

[@MR-cp4sj]

Sad that most people don’t know this man.

[@missyperry733]

@MR fully aware of his work....

[@emmanuelpascal66]

For every season there is a colour. For every colour there are varying shades of craziness. For every shade of craziness there reassuringly is a voice of sanity to make sense of the choices, possibilities and hope before us. Thank you John

[@ecstaticallyeverafterwithc5904]

Absolutely brilliant. Such a refreshing embodiment of the classical liberal tradition.

[@jeremywilson2875]

For quite a while I have noticed the fundamentalist religion aspects of the anti-racism movement; and the dogma, the religious texts, the original sin, the anti-racism clergy (the elect) has disturbed me. John's noticing this, and writing about it is brilliant.

[@MichaelFlynn0]

John McWhorter is a very sharp individual...I think I might have to listen to this again. As a non American some of these things went over my head.

[@pamelaroyce5285]

I have read his book. I have also listened to his 18 minute interview on Amanpour & Company *twice* and got things out of it the second time that I missed the first time-even though I am an American. He packs a lot of information and ideas into his comments, and yet they are not full of fluff and distractions. An engaging intellectual.

[@sifridbassoon]

OMG! Debra Saunders! I used to read you back when you wrote for the Chron. Glad to see/hear you're still kicking around. 😉

[@Maliceless100]

McWhorter's pragmatism is enlightening and refreshing. I hope he keeps emerging as THE authority on these matters.

[@CK-lq5gm]

I love his point about the family...telling people to get married before having children is CLEARLY not sinking in...more vocational training is key. Having young MEN (aged 16 - 18 ) sitting in a high school classroom is such a waste of time. Get them trained and working, making money and building self respect.

[@goconnor0304]

Yes if that point is made to all races. But if it is for the colored people, it is just another way to divide. Also it doesn't encourage those people who want to be more. I don't know of any white middle-class families who do not encourage the children to go to college (regardless of whether it will be useful or not).

[@ouruhuru]

He does make a good point though but the societal and economic collateral damage from having an out of wedlock birthrate over 70% can't be ignored, and, in my opinion, still needs to be right up there on the agenda. Given that one of the main factors that caused this issue was a perverse incentive created through allowing access to welfare benefits for broken homes - essentially rewarding a negative - could one therefore not make a case for reversing this through incentivising behaviours favourable to maintaining the family nucleus?

[@kweli05]

I’d like to find the Looney Tunes book, but could not make out the name of the author that beat him to writing it. Edit: Found the author - Jaime Weinman.

[@blaisetzu]

I certainly hope things get better. Where we as a society can return to freedom of speech. Where people can have rational, OBJECTIVE, civil discourse over ideas and events. We are definitely not there yet, but McWhorter's book and the attention he is getting is definitely a beacon of hope.

[@daviderwin1204]

rational, objective, civil ... and add nuanced. We need to be able to talk about specific things without blowing up the discourse on generalizations.

[@danguire4804]

I'd like to add that his extensive lectures on language/linguistics are maybe the most formative works in digital format I've enjoyed in my life, for w/e that's worth Dr. They mattered to me, sir, thank you.

[@Andrew_Cotton]

Clearest thinking man in America

[@LawrenceMeisel]

This discussion makes me want to read his book, and simultaneously read Michell Alexander's The New Jim Crow. 😊

[@billsugg9564]

I’d love nothing more than to watch looney tunes with Mr. Mc Whorter and my son, and discuss it afterwards.

[@phasis]

Such a relief to hear this! I consider myself an anti-racist. As in a freedom and justice fighter and advocate. And have been brutally attacked (mainly by other white people for not groveling properly). Everything within this argument also can apply to the Transgender TERF brouhaha. Most people are not fully on board with the idea that this tiny population can not only redefine gender altogether, but are also entitled to tell the rest of us how to describe name ourselves (e.g. people with a vagina and clitoris, rather than women and girls). This is a conversation that needs to be had with open minds and hearts.

[@gfdthree1]

True defender of liberty, as much as a soldier.

[@michaelhiggins2562]

PS This book is filled with wisdom, common sense, highly readable, and you learn some important things as you read this book.

[@accomplishgoals]

I think at around 27:11 when Mr. McWhorter refers to the 'Revolutionary war', he must have meant the American Civil War. The American Revolutionary War ended about 50 years before the British abolished slavery. The American Civil War, *was* among other things, certainly about Slavery (codified in, among other things, the political discourse and policy making around "States Rights") no matter how it 'seems' to him. That's on the ledger of the Confederacy...as it went...Curious, too, at about 28:05, why he avoids answering the general question posed by Ms. Saunders - "What are your students like these days? Do you think they're prepared?" She asks Professor McWhorter, who has taught for years, what does he think of the quality of student to which he's been exposed in his classes and on the campuses where he has worked over the course of his career. This is what was implied in the question. It is a germane question given the fact that they are discussing "CRT" (which *is* ultimately "just a history lesson") and its effect on the quality of education of grade school students, who presumably often make it to a college where he teaches. She made no mention of Covid or the pandemic or the effect of pandemic protocols on campus and yet the professor pivoted to the matter of Covid and his feelings about "masking" in the classroom rather than tell how he feels about how prepared students are to analyze and discuss ideas in his classes. It's an interesting dodge...for such an language attentive, well spoken, progressively intentioned fellow...

[@AMikeStein]

"John... I have another question. What do you think of the 1619 project?" That look on his face was priceless... if only for a second.

[@mstrailertrash058]

Anybody from Singapore who thinks the U.S. is more racist than their home country is either not being truthful or unaware of the tremendous racism in Singapore. Singapore doesn't even address it's racism, it has different laws for different racial or ethnic groups, different institutions (e.g., universities) open only to specific ethnic or racial groups, allows explicit discrimination (e.g., want ads specifying race of job applicant), etc..

[@dariuszp8119]

Great guest !!!

[@glenna.jaspart1391]

Great book!

[@thehillbillygamer2183]

There's three basic classes in this country two of them have privilege one does not there's the ruling class and the professional class most sjws are part of the professional class but they have influenced the ruling class greatly now the ruling class ain't just government high-ranking corporate people are part of the ruling class their power is just not as physical as a government power and then there's everyone else the lowest class this involves the poor people and the lower middle class people this is from the criminal disabled person to the guy that works a job a blue color job that's lower middle class and the guy that works at McDonald's to the guy that's disabled to the drug dealer to the criminal it's it's all part of that lower class and that's the class that has zero privilege all of them are criminals all of them are bad people most of them are good people it's most of the professional class that are bad people because of the sjw and the wokeness

[@nancydrew5606]

John, are you wearing a sweater vest? Planning on buying the book anyway!

[@iamgolden911]

I have listened to him on many videos, this one was by far my favorite.

[@bunangst8415]

“The elect,” Thomas Sowell spoke of, “The anointed,”

[@Mdaberk71]

Just viewed the Commonwealth Club interview about the book. Maybe instead of all the Looney Tunes in a new book, you could do the history of the language of about 6 of the Looney Tunes characters? My son is on a similar start in his education, he has written about and viewed all of the characters of a line of super heroes, including a website with reviews of all the movies and their summaries. He is undecided in a college study, starting out with basics completed, and physics nearly complete, plus other basics, and sign language and art drawing. I hope he jumps to some idea that he enjoys sometime soon. It was great to hear about the history of your education, it gives me some relief that his turns will lead him to something that will spark his interests.

[@wilsonmacharia9568]

I almost read it like John mcwhiter

[@laylaali5977]

Brilliant man

[@mauricedrew3150]

How about the limits of John's humanity and common sense!

[@ebmurphy8744]

Debra is a distraction. She needs help organizing and or take camera off her. Its like dining with someone who's on their phone nodding when you tell them their car just got towed

[@xavierowens6503]

I agree. She did a mediocre job.

[@kweli05]

What happened in June 2020?

[@jdankerdake]

Suppressing votes isn’t the biggest threat - it’s laws changing as to who counts the votes and has authority over election boards and state elections, to make the overturning the results of a free and fair election a real possibility, and the election of people who would be willing to facilitate that outcome.

[@thehillbillygamer2183]

I don't see how music is racist some of the greatest musicians of the early 20th century and the 21st century have been black men

[@sifridbassoon]

I really wish you would name and shame that music theorist. LOL

[@Kali4Action]

John McWhorter, the following comment is to be considered a feeble attempt at a comic relief: So, Samson defeated the Philistines with a jawbone of an Ass ( Donkey), meaning common language... Holding the jawbone as his attribute, Samson looks upward, perhaps to God. The great strongman slew a thousand Philistines with the jawbone of an ass (Judges 15:19). Overcome by thirst, he then drank from the rock at Lechi, a name that also means "jawbone" in Hebrew.

[@michaelhiggins2562]

John is a bad ass!

[@RunBayou]

To compare the war on drugs solution with the whole family solution, one is legal and the other is cultural. You can end the war on drugs with law. You cannot use law to create traditional family values. I'm with John, if you can solve some issues, then better values should be a consequence

[@Tempus64]

True. But I believe that the line of thinking is that if black men aren't dealing drugs, then getting put in jail and repeating for the rest of their lives, they end up getting "real" jobs (thus John's solution to also have more vocational education for them), they end up being able to have middle class livings. There are more black men around. There ends up being more role models for kids to keep them out of crime. All of that leads to more marriages and so on and so forth. i.e. the exact opposite of what happened in large part due to the explosion of drugs, crime and then the war on drugs back in the late 70s, early 80s etc. Thus, social engineering via laws.

[@thehillbillygamer2183]

- JW's don't want to admit it but they have the privilege yes a lot of them are white but a lot of them are not it's about class not race everyone knows what that means how much money you got in the bank and your education and to an extent your family background and your family's education your family as well but you can be upper class and come from lower class because you was really smart you got a scholarship that that or you somehow worked your way up through some kind of system in a job which is really rare these days because they usually hire people from outside of the company that have some fancy degree this man is upper class but I think he's a good man all upper class people are not bad but the sjws are they are evil they don't want to admit that they are the bourgeoisie

[@stanhanley6004]

log off problem solved

[@everettyoung6596]

Ehhh.. Experiencing more racism in college rather than high school or middle school MIGHT be due to prevalent racially segregated high schools and middle schools, which goes for White and Brown. So the mixing of cultures and 'first' experiences are now happening in colleges and universities rather than 35-45 years ago. I can see why he is popular with some folks, he's crafty and has a way of making some people feel good about their ignorance.

[@nancychandler3673]

Agree. His expertise is linguistics not racial/ethnic studies. John has perfected his word salad.

[@MarcStjames-rq1dm]

Anyone who uses the term...'over educated' has lost my interest.... scary...that someone would toss that about like that. what would THEY DO if they had power to decide policies etc.... just 150 years ago..millions of black americans were bred almost like farm animals..... no one wants to discuss this damage done. how can america deal with her past? with her shame? reparations perhaps?

[@davethebrahman9870]

When he says ‘over-educated’, he means ‘educated beyond their capacity.’ It sounds like you could be an example.

[@ebmurphy8744]

how far do you unfurl history to find the villain of your choice? perhaps for you its only a matter of going home for dinner? You sound like you have a suffering person fetish.....perhaps it has something to with the mind forged manacles of shame you were so tenderly gifted and had no say in?

[@benjaminperez969]

@Squidblade ad hominem | straw man | bad faith

[@c0lorman341]

@Squidblade He's a liberal so not true, he's spoken with left speakers like Sam Harris

[@MarcStjames-rq1dm]

Oh yeah...bigotry needs more ammunition.... this is BS.

[@nancychandler3673]

Agreed. He does have the low IQ supporter though.

[@Mlaprades]

Right winger wing bats unite lol

[@benjaminperez969]

ad hominem | straw man | bad faith

[@edmey]

McWhorter is a democrat...he voted for AOC for the simple reason is that she won the democratic primary in his district. He shocked the "Academy" when he gave up a tenured position at U Cal Berkeley to join the Manhattan Institute. His twice weekly column at the NY Times is a welcome change from the GenZ wokeness that the Times has been inflicting on its readers.

[@goconnor0304]

@@edmey Actually both groups should be given 50/50% time in newspapers and podcasts and interviews. You may not like to hear about the GenZ wokeness. I am 60 and I remember the time when many parents and grandparents didn't want to hear rock-n-roll and felt we needed to hear Perry Como more. (I personally was subjected to Lawrence Welk every Sunday night.) Each generation goes through something new and hopefully the important items stick. I don't want to be like the parents and grandparents of my past. I want to learn how younger people think and feel. It may feel like I am out of my comfort zone, but at least I know something new.

[@edmey]

The "woke mob" that punishes heterodox, independent, thought doesn't have anything in common with the free-spirited liberal thinking of the 60's or "rock n roll".

[@nancychandler3673]

No wonder I'm just hearing about John McWhorter. He really knows how to spin his Rhetoric.