John Polkinghorne - Why the Cosmos?

[@dredelcottcryptozooligist4101]

The universe is here so I can make myself a bowl of Cocoa Pebbles using Chocolate Milk. Grand design? Random chance? It doesn't matter, as long as I can double up on that chocolatey goodness.

[@krystlewolfram5644]

Bingo

[@richardsylvanus2717]

God is Count Chocula

[@krystlewolfram5644]

@@richardsylvanus2717 Only at night. Frankenberry has the day shift and BooBerry on the weekends and holidays. Yummy Mummy and Fruit Brute remain at large.

[@dongshengdi773]

Max Planck, Father of Quantum Physics "I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness."

[@evanjameson5437]

without consciousness there is nothing.

[@dongshengdi773]

Physicist Menas Kafatos. Science doesn't give answers to the whys, it only gives answers to hows, ie , how do particles move or behave, but not the whys . The Why is a fundamental philosophical question . Why the universe exists is because this is a meaningful universe ; this is a conscious universe . The universe exists for us to experience it . The meaning of life is to give your life meaning . We can only access reality through our consciousness, therefore, Only consciousness is Real. Everything is just an experience of our consciousness . .

[@evanjameson5437]

thanks Robert--this is a rational discussion and excellent points about the separate but equal positions of science and theology.

[@dongshengdi773]

Only exceptional people become aware of reality. Some call them enlightened and some call them awakened. Those that learn true reality must possess a rare degree of intuition and sensitivity and a questioning nature .

[@kuroryudairyu4567]

Beautiful, but i prefer objective proofs, can you give me a single one?

[@brandonhodnett5420]

The cosmos or multiverse can only have purpose if it’s existence is intentional, so there is only purpose if there is intelligent design. Otherwise how could anyone logically try to give anything purpose if it’s existence isn’t ON purpose.

[@nguyenkhanhhung91]

Nice! Very thoughtful of you. I would like to add. "Purpose" here could mean the ultimate origin. This is related to the free will question. If there is no free will, then there is no such thing as intentional. So "purpose" here, if you don't believe in free will, is the same as where does it come from, or cause and effect. Or the "why" question is the same as the "how" question and the "where does it come from" question. Either one, there is still a big hole in the doughnut.

[@brandonhodnett5420]

@@nguyenkhanhhung91 I see your viewpoint 100% well said. For me I always go back to the statement “nothing can give that which it does not have” in this application meaning imho there is no way the uni or multiverse came from nothing. Some form of intelligent design had to be behind the laws that govern the cosmos, to me it’s unfathomable that all of this just sprung from nothing. And if it came from “something” that something also holds the key to purpose.

[@ibrahimtaha879]

I think part of the purpose of the universe is to act as a trainer for consciousness the way we humans would have to train an artificial intelligence if we want to avoid a catastrophe that threatens our existence , and here the concept of reincarnation becomes more logical , if god wants to create a soul "basically another god" he has to be very careful in teaching this new intelligence to do good and avoid engagement in evil acts , and this universe seems to be the perfect school for this .

[@ibrahimtaha879]

@@xenomyr I think our best potential knowledge on this topic is near death experience research , and after have personally read thousands of nde's i can safely be confident that for a soul, a body is like a piece of clothes , it's something to wear , and in heaven souls are mainly balls of what near death experiencers call energy and they have super senses and abilities for example they have 360 degree vision when not in a body and they can create any form or body they want and inhabit it , it's not un common for near death experiencers to have bodies of birds for example .

[@ianp3112]

Which is better? Objective morality - morality that benefits the whole (as in All sets). OR Subjective morality - morality that benefits the group or the individual.

[@AndrePAuger]

Brilliant presentation. Thank you!

[@arpit.s]

because there was so much time and nothing to do.. so we started playing games.. and 2d is better than 1d and 3d is better than 2d. we as a consciousness are able to perceive only three dimensions, but this is not the last dimension.

[@longcastle4863]

We're a little bit of life on a tiny speck of a planet adrift in a vast endless ocean of energy and matter -- likely unknown and for all intents and purposes invisible to the cosmos. We homosapiens had better figure out how to survive our own technical revolution -- make it past just the next couple of hundred years, for example -- before reveling in any grand notions of how special and remarkable we are.

[@707gomez]

A lovely response.

[@neffetSnnamremmiZ]

That's like to say: don't fly into space, because enough problems on earth. We are not God, but God the Life is in us!

[@Samsara_is_dukkha]

A typical put down version of Life and of the Universe that came as a reaction to the totally anthropocentric version that preceded it.

[@dongshengdi773]

There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the "particle" of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force is the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the MATRIX of all matter." - Max Planck, Father of Quantum Physics

[@suatustel746]

Where do you squeeze ethical issues as far as the Matrix concern such as pity mercy compassion empathy etc.

[@JimKanaris]

To truncate or not to truncate. That is the epistemological question! Polkinghorne's view of consonance is the form of positionality I've always found appealing. It does not forestall the answer to life's deepest questions by a truncated view of intending complete intelligibility, i.e., by some paltry view of "God", the elusive terminus ad quem of intellect.

[@neffetSnnamremmiZ]

It's my own structure!

[@CGMaat]

Best physicist priest ever!

[@jjcm3135]

A very important man indeed. Re best physicist priest well there's also Copernicus, Lemaître & literally dozens more who have made significant scientific discoveries & inventions. See a partial list here... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Catholic_clergy_scientists

[@dongshengdi773]

Guest : Physicist Sir John Polkinghorne. He was knighted in 1997 and in 2002 received the £1-million Templeton Prize, awarded for exceptional contributions to affirming life's spiritual dimension. A famous theoretical physicist who became an Anglican priest . author of five books on physics and twenty-six on the relationship between science and religion;[9] his publications include The Quantum World (1989), Quantum Physics and Theology: An Unexpected Kinship (2005), Exploring Reality: The Intertwining of Science and Religion (2007), and Questions of Truth (2009).

[@harrisonmwenda7122]

Satisfying discussion.

[@S3RAVA3LM]

I always questioned why I am in the body i occupy. Why wasn't I that person over there. Or why am I even a person and conscious. Or why was I not unborn or non existent. The 'I' is Consciousness. What is the 'I' that's been circumscribed in the body i occupy. Is it only the ego that asks these question or divides. There may not even be such thing as non being -- only the thoughts from ego may arise these questions. How is this consciousness circumscribed in a seemingly local since. Or is it not circumscribed at all, and was only a false notion, while dissolving the layers of ego enables this realization soon to become Union. Why the cosmos -- why 'I'. Even if the brain produced consciousness, i ask the questions above. Is the the Soul but a rain drop of the abode consciousness/cosmos, and a physical body circumscribed to the Soul, rather than vice verse. And the shedding of ego, the process of disobjectification and renunciation, the God consciouness, God Union. I have to philosophize about this fall, or the divisions of nature. The waves crash into the beach, only to return back to the abode. God is Knowing himself. I am that I am. Why am I who I am. I think God may not Know either, because on that level not knowing is the truest pure Wisdom. God doesn't Know who or what God is, but Knows what God is not. And so God is coming to Know God Self as we seek to Know thySelf. Why even ask the question why? Does not a process begin -- and where does it end? Isnt that the same for God? Grab your surf board, harness the waves, be poetic, seek Divinity.

[@dongshengdi773]

"This most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being." - Sir Isaac Newton

[@owencampbell4947]

We can observe that consciousness is not perfect. It is also ruled by informations gathered through the brain, we can observe the difference on the ethnic groups way consciousness evolved. So we have to differentiate the quality of consciousness to its developed stand. Let us not always try to cultivate a collective mass ignoring the individuality nature of human beings. We are born individually in a evolved state, developing varying degrees of development. We dont know exactly what causes a brain to evolve better than others, but it is obvious that this happened in the past. Our interest for the universe is a sign of a step ahead conscious development.

[@kos-mos1127]

I think they why question is irrelevant because it will always answers with a subjective response. The Cosmos is not a creation the Cosmos is creation and annihilation.

[@dongshengdi773]

Science and religion are two sides of the same deep human impulse to understand the world, to know our place in it, and to marvel at the wonder of life and the infinite cosmos we are surrounded by. Let’s keep them that way, and not let one attempt to usurp the role of the other. .

[@vitr1916]

If everyone is thinking as same as you, I believed there is never an argument about Gods' existence. From the chaos, people should find Gods to find peace. From peace, people will work together to figure out how to live with nature by scientific study (if it is possible).

[@davidsanders5652]

I have never understood how Polkinghorne got suckered into the god thing. He is clearly a very intelligent man with a strong physics pedigree.

[@NeverTalkToCops1]

Maybe he thought he would be more novel, more "important". I mean look right here on youtube, he's prancing about like a pope who just relieved himself.

[@davidsanders5652]

@@NeverTalkToCops1 Nope. He's an actual Cleric has been forever. I bought a book by him on quantum physics many years ago and, there it was in the bio, C of E cleric. Odd.

[@nonesuch27]

How condescending of you.

[@davidsanders5652]

@@nonesuch27 Not at all. It's mostly only really stupid people who believe in the supernatural. In fact believing in the supernatural is a strong indicator of mental defect. Have I struck a chord?

[@DavieParkes]

We could be one of infinite universes, does the Christian God model account for distant galaxies and universe’s too. There are unknown possibilities, more than we can comprehend, it’s easy to attach a God to this to temporarily answer this question. I personally believe there is something, is it some supernatural deity, I’m not too sure about that, but there must have been life in the past, currently and billions of years in to the future that wonder the same as ourselves. If consciousness it’s experiencing itself, then consciousness can’t know it’s own self until it has experienced everything.

[@bozo5632]

Shower curtains exist for mold, probably.

[@eksffa]

NTS 60/u Unit of knowledge

[@clownworld-honk410]

And there was me thinking we live on a flat plain under a dome. I'll have to take another look as I don't think we live separate to God, as mentioned.

[@Patrick77487]

We assume we understand. Adding meaning may be natural yet adds very little to reality.

[@SandipChitale]

The word scientism uses the same trick as the word woke which basically dismisses or disarms legitimate arguments. It does it by avoiding providing the counterarguments.

[@dongshengdi773]

Further reading: There Is (No) a God: How the World's Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind by Anthony Flew

[@suatustel746]

Not quite, he was close to be an agnostic, but vacillating between scepitism and pantheism.

[@spanish_realms]

The notion that there is some higher purpose to our existence, some meaningful end goal that compensates for the struggle of man and woman kind to survive over time is, I suggest, just wishful thinking, something not supported by anything concrete. Maybe we just are born, live for a time , reproduce and die, with no more higher meaning than that intrinsic to the life cycle of a butterfly? I don't know, I don't think anybody knows. To satisfy the perverse desire of some imagined creator entity to be worshipped for eternity by grateful peons? Give me a break.

[@PrzemyslawSliwinski]

Could we say both science and faith act as mutual catalysts?

[@andrewwells6323]

RIP

[@xanrygaming4239]

Great question as always, but a lot of very good posh spoken answers. I always believed that science exposed fake religious created by man and true beliefs in God exposing fake science created by man. This respectfully keeps humans evolving and finding the truth of everything.

[@evaadam3635]

Why The Cosmos ? Ths purpose of why God created the Cosmos is to serve as temporary dwelling for His lost children for a chance of salvation through faith. Let me clarify, as follows: All alone, the Holy Spirit was never bored in His Spiritual World/Heaven..... but splitting Himself into free souls to have a free family to love, and to be loved freely, was His great achievement that has added great flavor to His existence.... ..but before He split Himself, He created the Physical Universe first, because He can not rule out the possibility that some of His prospective free splits might go astray, may lose faith in His love to leave Him to end in NOTHINGNESS (Hell).. At least, the Physical Universe can serve as a temporary Home for those who may go astray, who may fell from Heaven, and who may ask Him for a chance to return Home through regaining the faith that they lost.

[@tedgrant2]

Explaining the world is the job of Scientists, not arm-chair theologians.

[@neffetSnnamremmiZ]

Yes, the one "mind" in the end, the Life that will once have fully realized itself, with all its promised capabilities, is the same who was in the beginning. But science can never see that Living, science is its tool for self intervention for reason of self transformation and realization! What science can see there looking at the beginning (some unpersonal forces, energy or information) is just something like the "dead corpse" of the Living! And science is, like religion too, a way of self alienation. In both (science and religion) the Living or the subject of knowledge steps each in a specific way next to itself, for self intervention, for reason of self transformation and realization! "God" is that point in far far future, where life will have fully realized itself, the point, spoken with Max Planck, where science and religion will meet - at their common goal!

[@mickeybrumfield764]

I like being a creature with the potential to know God.

[@suatustel746]

It doesn't make any sense your drivel.

[@Gringohuevon]

old people are mad

[@kurtchristie]

I believe additionally that the universe exists for the Creator to have innumerable experiences in a way that otherwise would not be possible.

[@markfischer3626]

I go with the idea that the universe is pointless and meaningless. This man is confused. He holds two contradictory thoughts at the same time. As a scientist he comes to tentative conclusions about what he has evidence for. As a theologian he believes in absolute truths with no evidence. That's called "faith." Faith is belief in something for which there is no evidence. When I observe this phenomenon I'm reminded of the mental process called "doublethink" in George Orwell's novel 1984. 2 + 2 = 4. 2 + 2 =5. Which is true? Both are equally true because self induced schizophrenia was the only viable strategy to survive in that insane imaginary world of horrors Of all the horrors of that world this was the one that frightened me the most the first time I read itg when I was about 12 years old. Everything believed today can be sent down a memory hole and not believed tomorrow, believed again the day after. That was the job of the Ministry of Truth. Why? Because Big Brother said so. He alone tells you what to believe at any given time. When I was a sophomore in college, in a physics class in a lecture hall the professor, Hans Meissner, the son of the famous physicist Meissner said today we will study electromagnetic energy. Sometimes it acts like waves and sometimes like particles so we call them "wavicles." I'd have fallen on the floor if the chair I was sitting in didn't have armrests and separators on both side and a flip down desk to hold me in. Doublethink. Which is it? What came next was even more disturbing. When we think of them as particles we call them photons and they have no mass. Something made out of nothing? How can that be? So if I don't believe anything from the minds of theologians and philosophers I question physicists equally by challenging their absurdities with equal vigor. They are as smug and self assured as priests and in a sense they are the priest of science. Except about 10 years later I realized that the hundreds of equations I'd memorized derived and used about electrical and magnetic fields and the thousands of others in other fields told me what would happen but nothing about how. So I realized that I didn't really know anything and it was of no comfort to realize that nobody else did either. Here's a frank admission that I am right, they don't know that they don't know. kzbin.info/www/bejne/pYuam6qbq7-VmJY So we know something about what happens, we know little about how it happens. The question of why it happens is absurd because there is no answer and no way to arrive at one. The notion of god as an answer is an intellectual cop out.

[@markfischer3626]

@@xenomyr God was created in the image of man.

[@Samsara_is_dukkha]

"So if I don't believe anything from the minds of theologians and philosophers I question physicists equally by challenging their absurdities with equal vigor. They are as smug and self assured as priests and in a sense they are the priest of science." I agree. Both theologians and scientists use different technologies to explore phenomena. The first use introspection to reach esoteric revelations and the second use extrospection to reach exoteric revelations. In the pantheon of physics, the Higgs-boson is the new god of mass that sits on the right side of the graviton, the god of attraction that nobody has ever seen but that physicists know must exist for sure according to some theoretical symbolic representations of the Universe that most of us cannot understand but that we are supposed to take at faith value. Then the questions arise as to why we have this relationship with authority (whether religious, scientific or whatever), why we have this relationship with knowledge and what consequences such relationships have on our lives?

[@bluelotus542]

Why not? God has multifarious energies. The problem arises when we see God's energies separated from him.

[@dongshengdi773]

In Communist countries … atheism is taught in schools. … Having grown up in communist Bulgaria - a culture where blind nonbelief was as dogmatically mandated by the government as blind belief is by the church elsewhere. … I don’t believe that a real conflict with science will arise in the ethical aspect, because I believe that moral questions are outside of the scientific realm. … Now a question of the form: If I do this, what will happen? is strictly scientific. As a matter of fact, science can be defined as a method for, and a body of information obtained by, trying to answer only questions which can be put into the form: If I do this, what will happen? The technique of it, fundamentally, is: Try it and see. Then you put together a large amount of information from such experiences. All scientists will agree that a question - any question, philosophical or other - which cannot be put into the form that can be tested by experiment … is not a scientific question; it is outside the realm of science. ~ famous physicist Richard Feynman . .

[@kraxmalism]

this channel inspires people to leave pseudo-scientific semi- poetic comments under the videos. lifehack: do not read comments they are of secondary importance.

[@S3RAVA3LM]

This channel does lure many ingenuine, unwise, atheist/materialists, nihilists, shills, trolls, lost souls -- all in whom ego is much prevalent. And these people are hurt, most do not know it. Life is traumatizing and takes great discipline and Will to grow. There are a few who are genuine and truly do seek. I do wish the comments section were of students wanting to learn, and share experiences, and depth of insights,,or profundity.

[@ChuckBrowntheClown]

Science is just asking questions that the word of God has already given the answers to. By asking what is the cause, God creating is the cause.

[@ChuckBrowntheClown]

@@realitycheck1231 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John 1:1‭-‬5‭, ‬11‭-‬14 KJV

[@ChuckBrowntheClown]

@@realitycheck1231 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Genesis 1:1 KJV

[@ChuckBrowntheClown]

@@realitycheck1231 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. John 1:1‭-‬5 KJV

[@ChuckBrowntheClown]

@@realitycheck1231 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. Hebrews 11:3 KJV

[@ChuckBrowntheClown]

@@realitycheck1231 The LORD hath made all things for himself: Yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD: Though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished. Proverbs 16:4‭-‬5 KJV

[@dongshengdi773]

Anyone who becomes seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that there is a spirit manifest in the laws of the universe, a spirit vastly superior to that of man." - most famous physicist and philosopher Albert Einstein

[@robertschriek1353]

Great questions as always, but lot a lot of silliness as answers. “I think, I believe” lot of rubbish covered by a posh accent. But man do I like this channel, thank you Robert!

[@Z-Diode]

I dare say that during their conversation these two scholars exchanged not only their ideas and speculations, but also their omicron viral load.

[@jamesconner8275]

It's sad to see religion destroy a great mind like Polkinghorne. But, religion is blind.

[@Tzimiskes3506]

well Einstein did say science without religion is lame so....

[@Tzimiskes3506]

it truly is sad to see atheism destroy great minds to the point where they say nothing had given rise to everything...

[@williammaxwell8466]

such an ironic statement. your religion IS science----and it is you who are blinded by your unbounded faith and belief in your understanding of science.

[@brodygreene5918]

He seems to have lead quite the life with all his accomplishments. “Destroyed” isn’t the word to describe his mind.

[@12schoolies]

Which of the 80 or so known Gods, is he talking about?

[@perryedwards4746]

God! really!! I don't know how he squares everything...

[@janklaas6885]

🇺🇳6:22 Science will find the theory of EVERYTHINGK

[@francesco5581]

No i think is something already abandoned. Science need "something" to work on so you will always ask yourself this "something" from where it comes...

[@janklaas6885]

@@francesco5581 talk to the ✋

[@johnfree2833]

Vape DMT and find out

[@maxwellsimoes238]

Copernico shows earth inst importancein Universe than human being. He proof his in.model.math. NOW guys Said man conscieness is part Universe. He hasnt proof it because he Not show up his match model. However he are talking about GOD mind , so arrogant comment from guys dont knows GOD essencial Works. Stuck up.

[@_a.z]

Logical fail! If a bigger, more complex, more powerful, everlasting god can exist, then so could the universe. The problem of prime movers no longer exists!

[@mikel4879]

Pure rubbish!

[@ThomasMilne]

There is no god 🙄🤦‍♂️