Lets Improve A Float Valve

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JohnGrimsmo

JohnGrimsmo

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 163
@stephangosselsberger9861
@stephangosselsberger9861 3 жыл бұрын
Why dont just use a screen tube so the sensors dont get clogged?
@x_ph1l
@x_ph1l 3 жыл бұрын
I wonder if chips can plug the screen so much that the filling rate becomes too low, allowing overflow sensor to trip?! But I guess it's waaay cheaper to try screen tube than $600 sensor. Good thinking!
@xkblxcripple
@xkblxcripple 3 жыл бұрын
@@x_ph1l I had that Issue before, ended up using a pump snorkel cage with wire fly screen mesh wrapped around it placed under the sensor body. It worked for 4 years then replaced the fine wire mesh and should last another 4.
@googleuser859
@googleuser859 3 жыл бұрын
Would it not be easier to make a small, fine mesh cage around the float valves to stop chips getting near them?
@xmtxx
@xmtxx 3 жыл бұрын
Came in the comment section to suggest the same. Deporting the floater, is quite smart, but seems really complicated, the way you did it. The 600$ replacement, way over expensive and overkill.
@hydrusje
@hydrusje 3 жыл бұрын
15:02 That's not how a noga works (or a magnetic chuck) It's a magnet that turns and aligns it's poles with some magnetic pole plates.
@alexcampbell492
@alexcampbell492 3 жыл бұрын
Look at stainless steel mesh hop strainers. You could simply put one in the tank around the sensor to keep the chips out. Cheap on Amazon
@TheTsunamijuan
@TheTsunamijuan 3 жыл бұрын
my first thought with the float not displacing enough due to weight and surface area was Syrofoam packing. Super light, lots of surface area, cheap and readily available. Plus I have seen it used in a number of commercial devices that have float valves with 20 year life spans. You know what they say though, fail fast, fail cheap, and fail often. So you grow, and improve.
@headmaxify
@headmaxify 3 жыл бұрын
Holy cow. The whole time I was thinking this is not going to float. Why do you not just fence off the sensor area in that tank using some mesh or something? That combined with a scheduled cleanout should work well and cost less than those replacement sensors.
@SuperSecretSquirell
@SuperSecretSquirell 3 жыл бұрын
That screwdriver also has 1/4" and 5/16" nut drivers built in, just take out the bit or bit holder. A lot of hose clamps are 1/4" or 5/16".
@DeKempster
@DeKempster 3 жыл бұрын
IFM sensor won't work with current wiring terminals. If you want to use them you need separate 24v supply for the sensor. And check what kind of input the Kern control system / PLC has if you go the IFM route. PNP/NPN, now it doesn't matter as it's a simple switched contact. Also LI5131 would be much cheaper sensor and is made for this specific application
@P1-Engineering
@P1-Engineering 3 жыл бұрын
Exactly this. I would love to help him out with these kind of things.
@capnthepeafarmer
@capnthepeafarmer 3 жыл бұрын
Don't waste money on the IFM sensor. You only need an on/off switch, not a continuously variable sensor. The control on the equipment only cares about on or off. Look at fuel level sensors in cars, it's basically a coat hanger with a float on the end that makes a switch. That's literally the only thing you need. Keep it simple, and it will be reliable.
@aserta
@aserta 3 жыл бұрын
IKR, 600 doolan hairs ripped off. That's such a scam.
@DeKempster
@DeKempster 3 жыл бұрын
@@aserta not a scam, but overkill sensor for this application. A IFM LI5131 would be way more suitable in this application than the one his friend suggested. Though still not as simple as floats. But the LI ones don't have moving parts. But require more wiring as they are not simple contacts.
@littlejackalo5326
@littlejackalo5326 3 жыл бұрын
@@aserta derp
@supermanhills
@supermanhills 3 жыл бұрын
Keep it simple stupid as they say.
@Brad-vs1lk
@Brad-vs1lk 3 жыл бұрын
It needs more than just a simple on/off switch. It needs an on switch at an upper level and an off switch at a lower level. Otherwise the pump would be burning out because it is cycling within a very short change in liquid level. The pump would only run for 10 secs and then 30 secs later start up again. It’s designed the way it is to give the pump time to cool down as the liquid level is rising!!! If you put a float butt up against a simple on/off switch the level only has to change about 1/2” to activate the switch. If you put the float on the end of an 8” rod with the same on/off switch the level has to change about 4” to activate the switch. If you extend the rod to about 12” the level has to change about 8” to activate the switch and so on. This extension of the rod introduces a time variant into the equation so the motor is not cycling continuously. The reason they built it the way they did was to eliminate pump cycling and the reason they did not utilize just an on/off switch with a float is because they probably do not have the room in that small tank..The float switch they are using introduces that time variant for that small tank and eliminates the float on the end of a rod system activating a simple on/off switch. It is compact and does the same job. It is just that the switch is only to be used with clear liquids. It doesn’t factor in metal fillings and floating chips. I think a conductivity probe sensor switch designed for the viscosity of cutting fluid with a simple 0 to 30 second variable timer circuit would have been more appropriate for this particular application..
@supermanhills
@supermanhills 3 жыл бұрын
PVC pipe with a small hole at the bottom and open at the top. Put that around your existing float, you're sorted.
@AntiVaganza
@AntiVaganza 3 жыл бұрын
And to make it even "safer" then put a filter in there, too.
@MrAndrewCole
@MrAndrewCole 3 жыл бұрын
Also the Klein screw drive has 3 different nut drivers too
@mathewresnick9659
@mathewresnick9659 3 жыл бұрын
That Klein screwdriver is one of my faves as well. Also has different sizes of nut runners for the different bit positions.
@HKCNC1
@HKCNC1 3 жыл бұрын
Very good idea but there's an easier way used PVC pipe with multiple holes do the height of the tank wrapped with screen you'll be able to isolate the float from the chips but the water still can go through the screen good luck
@xkblxcripple
@xkblxcripple 3 жыл бұрын
I had that Issue before, ended up using a pump snorkel cage with wire fly screen mesh wrapped around it placed under the sensor body. It worked for 4 years then replaced the fine wire mesh and should last another 4.
@ReiniGrauer
@ReiniGrauer 3 жыл бұрын
That seems like a fancy way to fix a problem that could fixed with a filter around the two floats to keep the chips out of that area.
@RyJones
@RyJones 3 жыл бұрын
Or a baffle, so no filters
@SeanHodgins
@SeanHodgins 3 жыл бұрын
Iterating is fun. Just starting something in general is the first step 100% of the time, and throwing something together with what you have laying around is always a fun way to problem solve. There seems like there are 10 ways that company could have made the float design better e.g. a screen, non contact sensor, a lever instead of a shaft, etc. The most surprising thing is the amount of chips that settle in there and that they thought a moving part within those chips is a good idea.
@jeffstange9183
@jeffstange9183 3 жыл бұрын
I worked at a tie strap company in molding production(Panduit) and the tie strap you could use is a Stay Strap, the head of the strap is free floating, its called a sst, short for stay strap tie
@ZergZfTw
@ZergZfTw 3 жыл бұрын
Why not just stick a filter or some mesh around the sensor? All you need to do is keep the chips away from the sensor. Something like a mesh colander would work.
@JMJR07
@JMJR07 3 жыл бұрын
In regards to the Klein screwdriver, check out Picquic, they’re made in Canada (BC for screwdriver, Taiwan for bits). The Super 8 holds 7 bits on display for easy finding plus it has 1/4” and 5/16” nut runners. The Mariner has corrosion resistant bits if that’s at all a concern with water or cleaning chemicals. You can order any bit to suit your needs off Tenaquip. I’ve got a full set and really enjoy them.
@RabidStork
@RabidStork 3 жыл бұрын
Also, check out Rolgear which is also made in Canada and is one of the nicest "ratcheting" screwdrivers you'll ever use. It doesn't ratchet but has roller bearings that wedge instantly to allow a ratcheting action. Highly recommended.
@JMJR07
@JMJR07 3 жыл бұрын
@@RabidStork I also have a Rolgear. There is almost no backlash and it’s totally silent. I appreciate the double ended bits they include.
@MrAlekoy
@MrAlekoy 3 жыл бұрын
There is a magnet inside the float, and a reed-switch in the rod of the sensor, that is why the chips sticks to it
@nigelpatrick115
@nigelpatrick115 3 жыл бұрын
Awesome video John, as an engineer myself and CNC machinist I can relate to this. Great to see that I'm not alone and try to fix things and think outside the box sometimes. This is what being an engineer is all about. Please do not give up and resort to a purchased part or contact Kern lol, its great to see you come up with a solution and then print/manufacture your own parts. And even if it does not work properly the 1st time sure thats all part of the fun. If it was simple sure what would you learn or get from it. Keep up the fantastic videos John!!
@TheMadManPlace
@TheMadManPlace 3 жыл бұрын
1. get a 3 or 4 inch el cheapo plastic ball from the dime store, cut a square hole in it and silicone it to the tool holder. 2. put a plate into the reservoir sticking down below the surface of the coolant just on the machine side of the sensor to keep floating chips away from the sensor. 3. the fancy sensors MUST BE for the voltage of the machine otherwise you will pop them. 4. do the ball mod, print a 2 part adjustable stand for the sensor and save money - go have a beer. 5. as an old machinist(70) it makes me proud to see "young guys" figure out inexpensive reliable solutions for issues that come their way. 6. the best solution is the easiest solution - DON'T RE-INVENT THE WHEEL - JUST MAKE IT BETTER.
@dumle29
@dumle29 3 жыл бұрын
I'd be worried about the overflow float getting the same issue :S
@TexasBulldog74
@TexasBulldog74 3 жыл бұрын
There is so much more displacement it would take a lot and i mean A LOT more chips to with it down enough enough to offset the buoyancy.
@dumle29
@dumle29 3 жыл бұрын
@@TexasBulldog74 It seemed the failure mode wasn't weight, but that chips got jammed in between the top stop. I guess it'd be hard for that to happen on a float that (hopefully) rarely gets to the top
@TommiHonkonen
@TommiHonkonen 3 жыл бұрын
i just realized there are no filters before the floaters, just a mesh with smaller holes than the chips makes it work much better, of course youd have to clean it every now and then
@riley8824
@riley8824 3 жыл бұрын
question. would chips stick to the shaft of the new sensor like they do on the side of the tub causing the radar to be off? might just be better off with a float switch like the style you are building that doesnt have to be submerged.
@kaelwilliams3354
@kaelwilliams3354 3 жыл бұрын
After seeing how the kern filters chip out of the coolant and what you have done to improve upon that, I would be curious as to how you manage tramp oil in the kern. I believe I saw in a previous video that the Mori has something in its coolant filtration system that does it I am curious what the Kern uses
@xkblxcripple
@xkblxcripple 3 жыл бұрын
I had that Issue before, ended up using a pump snorkel cage with wire fly screen mesh wrapped around it placed under the sensor body. It worked for 4 years then replaced the fine wire mesh and should last another 4.
@ChriFux
@ChriFux 3 жыл бұрын
the noga arms magnetic field actually runs over it's housing in the off position. when it's on the field travels through the metal piece under it, which holds it on
@jpg113
@jpg113 3 жыл бұрын
The wiring isn't as easy as it seems, the IFM Sensor needs an 18 to 30V DC power supply to work. Your current float switches are just a simple contact with 2 wires like a light switch. The IFM sensor has 4 wires L+ and L- are supply lines for the electronics in the sensor, OUT1 and OUT2 outputs for 2 different fluid levels. In the Kern junction box you have probably has +24V DC going to the white wires of the float switches and the blue wires are the outputs provides the 24V signal to the Kern controller. You need 0V DC for the power supply of the IFM sensor in the junction box.
@DeKempster
@DeKempster 3 жыл бұрын
And if its NPN/PNP input channel on the Kern, now with the leve float it doesn't matter. But it matters if he chooses to use a active sensor.
@aserta
@aserta 3 жыл бұрын
12:14 the design of those floats is ... well to put it simply, stupid. I'd get rid of those and get a simple lever actuated switch (from a fuel pump) with a simple electronic switch at the end of the travel. I though that the higher up it went the faster the pump would go or something. That's just a basic float switch. edit: a word / the 600 $ sensors are a rip-off. You don't need that.
@minimovzEt
@minimovzEt 3 жыл бұрын
Lever switch with the way you proposed wouldn't work because it has a latch range, when it goes on it stays on until about half down the pipe, the pump would get triggered only when full with a lever.
@mchlfranko
@mchlfranko 3 жыл бұрын
Does this problem not happen on the overflow sensor? If the first sensor fails I would be worried about the second one failing in the same manner!
@FabFunty
@FabFunty 3 жыл бұрын
Wouldn't even just a bigger tube or some kind of wall around it with just a little space between itself and bottom of the tank be enough ? so the fluid is still leveling in it , the sensors are in clean fluid and the chips can float around.
@hermannstraub3743
@hermannstraub3743 3 жыл бұрын
Normal float switch has the switch and the float separatet. Like an arm with float and the switch above in the air. so the float is not hindered by nothing. Like in my toilet.
@MoondyneJoe
@MoondyneJoe 3 жыл бұрын
John early in this video you mentioned running the Kern for long periods of time unless you have a tool problem or breakage, Is it worthwhile then if you have the storage space in the rack to have a set of duplicate tools for the task at hand, so in case of a tool break the Kern can go to the backup tool replacing the damaged one and continue working instead of machine downtime till somebody gives the needed attention maybe hours later? Tony from Western Australia 🇦🇺
@jeffkeen6943
@jeffkeen6943 3 жыл бұрын
John, it would be simplier to put a round, metal wire cage around the float to stop the chips actually coming into contact with the float. You just need enough holes in the wire cage to allow the coolant level to flow easily. The float design you have come up with assumes that the endmill container will displace enough coolant to lift the float. You will have to measure the static displacement and then calculate how high to lift the sensor to work accurately. You should then look at the overflow sensor, as if it also gets jammed then you might have an overflow...
@Wombbatts
@Wombbatts 3 жыл бұрын
You can use capacitive proximity sensors to detect liquid, and they cost almost nothing.
@DeKempster
@DeKempster 3 жыл бұрын
Still needs additional 24v
@Wombbatts
@Wombbatts 3 жыл бұрын
​@@DeKempster im sure they could afford 20 feet of wire using $40 sensors vs $500 sensors.
@paulmace7910
@paulmace7910 3 жыл бұрын
What is that stuff floating on the top of the coolant? Obviously the system was not designed for floaty chips. I have a feeling that they are going to be a problem for the radar gun. Replace the printed part and yogurt cup with a pool noodle zip tied to the float. Same idea to get the sensitive piece out of the water.
@johnsharpe4131
@johnsharpe4131 3 жыл бұрын
Are all the chips steel? Place an old magnet in the bottom of the tank to catch the chips and keep them off the sensors. Will require cleaning regularly. Just a thought, thanks for sharing.
@TrygK
@TrygK 3 жыл бұрын
Great iteration. As an engineer I will let you know that even the best engineers do use duct tape and zip ties to make something work to test out ideas.
@95dodgev10
@95dodgev10 3 жыл бұрын
I would make a fine mesh panel to go between the area the sensors sit in and the rest of that little box. Fine mesh would let coolant through but very minimal chips. I wouldn't even silicone seal it to the sides or anything like that cause you want coolant to leak past. Another possible solution would be a nexjen sump like you have on the mori with the pickup sucking from that area. Not sure how well they handle chips though since they're meant for skimming oil.
@platin2148
@platin2148 3 жыл бұрын
Would have made a little lever with the float on the end and a switch on the other side. For the more fancy thing i’d add a poti that can be read out analog.
@ChrisHayton64
@ChrisHayton64 3 жыл бұрын
How about a filter mesh around the sensor
@flikflak24
@flikflak24 3 жыл бұрын
Well the good thing about haveing the printer on the concrete is that it have a completely solid/ non movable support from the bottom just like the kern XD Have plans on getting a ender 5 plus my self and adding sand into the non moving part of the frame with linear rails and mount / bolt it to a large pease of concrete with dense foam Maybe even bolt some aluminum plate to the sides to stiffen up the frame completely and ofc a carbide ( and / or Ruby) nozle for wear resistance
@braddles345
@braddles345 3 жыл бұрын
Why Not throw in a sealed ultrasonic level sensor on there? you can set trip values and get a continuous 4-20mA output too if you want. I would suggest going with the Pepperl+Fuchs sensors (they have hygienic grade, IP69K rated, sealed ultrasonics. Self-cleaning head, no issues with water, dust etc. Also, the ultrasonic sensor isn't $600
@bigjd2k
@bigjd2k 3 жыл бұрын
Just have the same arrangement as the ball cock in a cold water tank, but smaller. The rod angles down and the ball floats on the surface, the switch and pivot is high and dry. No sliding action at all.
@FailureIsOptional
@FailureIsOptional 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks John very interesting. .... Seems overly complex for a simple chip filtering problem? I do the same thing all the time 😁
@jeffreyschacher5757
@jeffreyschacher5757 3 жыл бұрын
Try Putting the Float in a PVC Tube Attached to the bottom of the float mount. Coolant will fill the tube and the floating chips wont stick to the float .
@fokkevandellen5714
@fokkevandellen5714 3 жыл бұрын
Lk sensors from ifm are usefull for this operations. And use a rotating hydac filter.
@stuarthardy4626
@stuarthardy4626 3 жыл бұрын
if a lot of chips stick to that plastic cup it will sink and fail do it properly and get the non contact system , you have a $1m machine and re trusting a 1 cent plastic cup to keep it running ( yes I am aware that most equipment has a small fuse somewhere that will shut it down ) I did a fault analysis for the banks mainframe complex the centre manager was shocked to fine a 5 amp fuse in the EPO circuit was to fail no computer complex running
@CdrBimberle
@CdrBimberle 3 жыл бұрын
Yeah John most of the time the simple solutions are the best!
@JHorvathCinema
@JHorvathCinema 3 жыл бұрын
Don’t forget all the different nut driver sizes on that screw driver!
@ErnestDuarte
@ErnestDuarte 3 жыл бұрын
Why not just put mesh around the floats? Like a cylindrical basket?
@aronandreas
@aronandreas 3 жыл бұрын
Research and development is like this. I do the same thing. You are way better with details and make it pretty. Love your movie 👆👍👍
@tawharanui5011
@tawharanui5011 3 жыл бұрын
Just divide the cooling chamber by a filter net as a screen. Simple. Kiss ...
@Bpohlman13
@Bpohlman13 3 жыл бұрын
Why not just put a fine mesh screen around the float sensors?
@VAARRR1
@VAARRR1 3 жыл бұрын
easy to do- may do enclosure for sensor ( fence- to protect him from cheaps
@PraxZimmerman
@PraxZimmerman 3 жыл бұрын
2" pvc pipe around the sensor and any piece of cloth to cover the bottom and screen out chips.
@ollyguy
@ollyguy 3 жыл бұрын
bit late to the party but be careful with gwr (guided wave radar) as false reading can be produced from a mass sticking to the guide rod as the metal chips currently do look at an ultrasonic or radar thats non guided wave might be more functional for you as its a real small tank.
@paulodpereira
@paulodpereira 3 жыл бұрын
Try ultrasonic sensors. They are relatively cheap and very reliable. Ultrasonics are used a lot for liquid level measurement, specially flamable ones.
@petermoore9504
@petermoore9504 3 жыл бұрын
How many knives could you have made while messing around with this? Letting go of these unproductive urges is one of the hardest things to do. When I was an editor I spent 7 or 8 hours trying to get to the bottom of a problem that I didnt need to and ended up working to 3am. Lesson learnt.
@littlejackalo5326
@littlejackalo5326 3 жыл бұрын
Zero. He can't make knives if the machine wont run.
@petermoore9504
@petermoore9504 3 жыл бұрын
@@littlejackalo5326 But the machine would run, he could have cleaned up the float ordered the new float valve he is going to order anyway and been up and running in 15 minutes. My point was more about not seeing the wood for the trees.
@donham512
@donham512 3 жыл бұрын
don't the chips add weight to the float ?? ... not exactly sure i know how. the sensor actually works ...
@xavtek
@xavtek 3 жыл бұрын
Someone said (and I don’t remember if it was you or Alec Steele first) that « it is not stupid if it works ». It has become one of my mantras lately.
@danharlan80
@danharlan80 3 жыл бұрын
Tube with holes around the float up to the top of the tank.
@Everything_Engineering
@Everything_Engineering 3 жыл бұрын
Easy solution just put a seperating panel around the sensors which allows coolant in but keeps chips out
@bigbird2100
@bigbird2100 3 жыл бұрын
Great video 👍 .To buy into 4.0 standard precision automation lights out running mantra,this not good enough.
@cristianconrads9109
@cristianconrads9109 3 жыл бұрын
Hi John, one other variable you forgot in your design is your hours cost, I remember company spending $ 10.000 on software that allowed the operator to press a key on the computer to request a balance to send the data, because he didn’t want to bend over to the flour and press the send button on the balance. This cut have easily solve with a 10 cents wooden stick Other solution would have been an electro magnet that collect the chips an release them when the pump start. But I suggest the new sensors in the long run are going to be cheaper. How much it cast you not having the machine running.
@andrewlarsen9700
@andrewlarsen9700 3 жыл бұрын
Could you also put like a piece of PVC pipe with a diameter bigger so that the float sensor can easily fit in it. make some holes in the bottom of the PVC pipe, to allow the coolant to still trip the sensor . would act like a damn for the chips, might work might not, but PVC is pretty cheap and that sensor is pretty pricey.
@SupremeRuleroftheWorld
@SupremeRuleroftheWorld 3 жыл бұрын
28:00 remember the old saying: "there is no replacement for displacment"
@andydix6243
@andydix6243 3 жыл бұрын
Agree with other comments that the $600 sensor is overkill. A fuel tank float would be a better option. The switch part can be above the tank and clear of the coolant with the float going into the tank on lightweight wire. Don't reinvent what's been successfully used in the vehicle industry for many years.
@scorpiac
@scorpiac 3 жыл бұрын
I love the way you think/problem solve, it's great the way you explain your thought process man. It's the main reason I watch your vids.
@aserta
@aserta 3 жыл бұрын
Stainless can be magnetic tho, i mean, you can stick knives made of low grade stainless unto magnets.
@nehabkeinyoutubesry
@nehabkeinyoutubesry 3 жыл бұрын
where is the 4k @?
@jimsvideos7201
@jimsvideos7201 3 жыл бұрын
The Kern can't send you a text or e-mail if it stops?
@TeAwsomeCo
@TeAwsomeCo 3 жыл бұрын
absolutely hilarious! I saw the displacement issue instantly but nevertheless This is the level of "outside the box" design engineering I aspire to be
@yamahammer4413
@yamahammer4413 3 жыл бұрын
I've heard Brits call it 'bodging'. Cobble stuff together until you find something that works. Don't throw the polish on it until it's vetted and proven, lest you end up polishing a turd! Not the most efficient R&D method I've heard of, but sometimes the most effective.
@maineway1999
@maineway1999 3 жыл бұрын
Make some use of magnets inside of the coolant reservoir to attract chips away.
@jongmassey
@jongmassey 3 жыл бұрын
He cuts a lot of stainless and titanium which aren't ferromagnetic
@T88M3
@T88M3 3 жыл бұрын
JohnGrimsmo, A toilet tank float is cheap and readily available should you need to replace it.
@mariusj8542
@mariusj8542 Жыл бұрын
The point with 3D printing is that is fast and cheap to prototype so that version 5 or 6 usually works😂
@Bigwingrider1800
@Bigwingrider1800 3 жыл бұрын
glue the cap back on the endmill case...done
@osfunsiouf
@osfunsiouf 3 жыл бұрын
An ultrasonic sensor would cost a lot less - you don't need the precision of the guided wave for this application
@philsmith9969
@philsmith9969 3 жыл бұрын
Brilliant video but why not contact the supplier of the machinery that cost x amount and tell them there design is not fit for purpose. Please supply at their cost a retro fit or you will claim the cost of the not fit for purpose machine.
@4833504F
@4833504F 3 жыл бұрын
tell kern they owe you a tub of yoghurt
@Mr30friends
@Mr30friends 3 жыл бұрын
At this point I understand that when you are in a businesss, you actually want things to just work so you don't have downtime. But still, the 600$ sensor might be a slight overkill for your application...
@FrederikBoye
@FrederikBoye 3 жыл бұрын
I’m by no means an expert in big expensive cnc machines, but as a mere mortal i found it surprising that it used mechanical level sensors in an environment full of chips and contaminants that can interfere with the sensors operation. I wonder if it could make sense to use conductive level sensors, one for high and one for low so you get a similar output as what the mechanical ones are delivering but they wouldnt be sensitive to contaminants. They should also be way cheaper than the mechanical ones. I am sure someone more savvy can enlighten me as to why those are not used in the first place.
@mjoconr
@mjoconr 3 жыл бұрын
Talk about Kern, taking the cheap way out on a very expensive machine.
@kimber1958
@kimber1958 3 жыл бұрын
Working it out
@Goguleroma
@Goguleroma 3 жыл бұрын
This is what i love, fixing a 1M-something machine with some plastic and zip ties.
@flagmedownmedia
@flagmedownmedia 3 жыл бұрын
Hi John, One thing I hate with "fixes" like this you go for the most expensive fix or tool to do the job, and just burn money. 1. The "Primary float switch" is not always active it's only active when it gets close to the top, the "Secondary switch" is to stop overflows. 2. It looks like the "Primary float switch" is not calibrated correctly to start of with, that should be coming on at about 50% of the float length. 3. This should be taken back to Kern and be reported as a manufacturing defect, as that's not the method of sensing this fluid level, as debris will cause an E-stop. 3.1 For the amount you paid for the Kern this is a really poor design! 4. This can be solved by using some PCV water pipe with a flange at the bottom with holes drilled at every 90 degrees apart going up the pipe, this can be then held to the base using a magnet or two. Less than $10 in parts. Wrap the PCV in some flyscreen and use some cable ties to hold the flyscreen on. Leave the top open but above the max liquid height, then slide the clean float switch inside the PVC pipe and then you're done. No more issues. If you want a drawing let me know. Regards
@littlejackalo5326
@littlejackalo5326 3 жыл бұрын
It doesn't matter where the two senators actuate in relation to each other. One just needs to be lower than the other. Having it at 50% wouldn't solve any of the problems. It will still get stuck. The fluid will still rise enough to try the overflow sensor, and the machine will still e stop.
@flagmedownmedia
@flagmedownmedia 3 жыл бұрын
@@littlejackalo5326I understand what you're saying. But with the current configuration it's not right. The primary sensor needs to come on sooner. Currently there is only about 1" of difference. That's just asking for the overflow sensor to activate more often, if the primary sensor gets jammed. If Kern had used an ultra sonic sensor they would only need 1 as they would be able to tell the level in real time, then display it on the screen. But that brings up another issue, I don't think Kern expects swarf to be in that side of the container, as swarf would just cause a mechincal sensor to jam up. Heck if John was to empty the containers and just drill a few holes between the wall then the swarf wouldn't flow over the edge, and then get in the sensors. I wonder if configured like this already, and John is not performing the matainance on it like he should be. Regards
@JOSEPH-vs2gc
@JOSEPH-vs2gc 3 жыл бұрын
Over-Perfectionism Never improved my creativity, keep up the good work and thanks for sharing.
@donham512
@donham512 3 жыл бұрын
fill with spray insulation foam
@robert_g_fbg
@robert_g_fbg 3 жыл бұрын
Buoyancy! That’s the missing variable.
@helicrashpro
@helicrashpro 3 жыл бұрын
I think I would be concerned with the overflow sensor.
@bkbricks_
@bkbricks_ 3 жыл бұрын
You need optical sensors instead of float. We have been using optical sensors for many years in the aquarium hobby for our top off water
@forestbirdoriginals4917
@forestbirdoriginals4917 3 жыл бұрын
If John chews at you on BOM, Im going to yell at my empty car. LOL Good job John. Youll get it done. For now you made it so it can run at night.
@Brad-vs1lk
@Brad-vs1lk 3 жыл бұрын
Kern screwed up by using a mechanical switch for this application! Throw out that mechanical switch! Install a simple conductivity probe sensor switch (similar to ones used for basement flooding) but designed for the viscosity of cooling fluid and a 0 to 30 second timer (possibly with a contactor) to run the pump. As the liquid level reaches the top level desired the conductivity probes sense liquid and operate the timer set for 15 seconds starting the pump to bring the level down to 10 percent after which the pump shuts off starting the process over again. On what principle does the overflow switch operate? Is it a switch or a sensor itself? If it’s a sensor then just use another one of those!
@hlavaatch
@hlavaatch 3 жыл бұрын
Maybe it still floats OK, just dips deeper, just adjust it lower
@Daniel-vq9zb
@Daniel-vq9zb 3 жыл бұрын
Shouldn't have to fix these kind of issues on a million dollar machine call kern
@musicelect
@musicelect 3 жыл бұрын
It’s the new Grimsmo yogurt sensor. I say you can charge at least $300 for it 😁
@emzyfilm6492
@emzyfilm6492 3 жыл бұрын
:D i have the same problem , even day before yesterday ive been cleanning same stuff :D funny NEW 660 dollars sensor is good , but still need to clean it time to time , and be carefull our is ceramis and ery fragile, Or put some mesh screens front of sensors,,,
@marcosmota1094
@marcosmota1094 3 жыл бұрын
Floats on sump pumps use styrofoam. Had you cut the inner container as a styrofoam rectangle and sealed the whole assembly in a condom, it would have worked. Yes, a condom. Edit: Instead of ZipTies, electrical tape then the 3D'ed ball sleeve would be round. Then, cut a rectangular block of styro into an octagon with a bread knife/saw/hack and bore around hole into its middle, 1/2 or 2/3rds into its depth. Finally, stick the 3D sleeve into that. There's nothing wrong with styrofoam and saving the $600 bucks and your time.
@artiem5262
@artiem5262 3 жыл бұрын
You are an engineer, and what you did was engineering problem solving at its finest. Identifying the problem, then marshaling resources at hand to solve it. And with iteration, success! Don't sell yourself short, this was superb.
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