Music streaming is FREE! (Yes, really)

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[@earthoid]

My only complaint about streaming is that the original recording is often replaced by a remastered version where the results are not always better.

[@paulofoliveira]

Exactly! Usually is always worse :( I really don’t understand why they do that and don’t even leave the original version there

[@TheWorldTeacher]

What about the fact that the file is NOT a transfer of the master recording, in most cases?

[@1Hiprascal]

@@paulofoliveira To boost sales of Vinyl. More money from selling vinyl on top of your subscription

[@earthoid]

@@TheWorldTeacher What bugs me is that a recording that I love can be replaced anytime with a different version that usually doesn't sound as good to my ears. I'm lookin' at you, Qobuz!

[@mokobigbro]

This is not true. The record label is responsible to upload the master via digital service provider (aggregator). They can be easily replaced with an updated version by the label through an ISRC code. Most of the time the change that we hear is more because of loudness normalization in the streaming platform.

[@jonberry6388]

I’ve been in this music business for enough time to release music that I am certain reached your top 1000. This is an honest and insightful synopsis - the fact you are someone to take the time to represent a moral view of what a music fan can be is highly commendable. Thank you.

[@hueyw1916]

I'd happily pay more to stream if the streaming service would guarantee that the extra I pay goes solely to the artists and doesn't get eaten up in profits the way it does now.

[@jam1epugh]

Absolutely

[@nickdunmur]

Same here.

[@Srode1999]

Profits? The most "profitable" service is Spotify. Their most profitable year (and the only year they listed a profit) was 2021. In 2021, 70% of their revenue went to rights holders and less than one percent was profit.

[@danielsvoboda198]

Do you apply the same logic to your car, groceries, health care etc?

[@MKL_D]

That's the problem.

[@looopy2u]

This vid is an example of why I like this channel so much!

[@1Hiprascal]

Yes, more important than the DAC of the month review.

[@Moremusicnowplz]

Streaming subscription $12.99, discovering your new favorite artist/album through streaming… priceless. And then go out and buy their music at your local shop. Support artists and small business owners!

[@maxhirsch7035]

Yes!! That's what I generally do. Any of us doing financially better than musicians struggling or semi-struggling to pay their bills from album to album (yes, I come from the album era) should help support their work at an adequate level.

[@victortio]

❤ That is how I use my spotify account

[@T100ley]

I stream and then when I really really like an artist I might buy their physical album. I tend to make a rule that I limit buying my albums at concerts with the assumption that is the best way to support them outside of their Patreon.

[@kattenfrederik618]

This is how I use Tidal 😊

[@mephistoGR]

Not enough income to do that, unfortunately, because I listen to A LOT of music and I like A LOT of artists/albums.

[@chrisnyc3641]

It's broken the same way everything is broken - the people putting in the work get little or nothing while the rich who hold equity hoard all the profit. Raising the price of streaming would only generate more money for them to hoard.

[@martinaston1715]

🥱

[@festerofest4374]

Taylor Swift would just add another jet.

[@syanhc]

There's a rich man in every profession, giving the finger to the poor man.

[@ouroborosrecords]

100%

[@davidzwicker9988]

@@festerofest4374she should sponsor an artist owned streaming platform.

[@mitschiewaldmann9450]

1:33 The moment you said free I knew exactly what you meant. No further clarification needed! But since some people obviously stopped to think and take everyone by their word we need videos like this. Keep up the great work 👍

[@thejasontlewis]

Gillian Welch has a song called “Everything Is Free” on her 2001 record “Time, the Revelator”. It’s still probably the closest any artist has come to describing the feeling of having your life’s work become totally worthless because the record companies finally figured out how to cut the artist out of the money equation. Streaming is kinda evil and a really terrible way to listen to music compared to physical media. I’d rather pay for the superior experience.

[@maxhirsch7035]

I think it's evil when it significantly supplants supporting musicians. When it's used to demo an album that one wouldn't otherwise risk buying, and subsequently one buys more albums, then it helps musicians.

[@dobieprime]

totally agree.

[@uccelino]

A musican friend of me pointed out that for the genres of music he and I enjoy it doesn’t make any sense to stream other than for promotion of the artist- he is simply giving the music away for free to streaming. He and his colleagues would be over the moon if they got to over 10000 streams over a month (which would include several streaming services), but it would be economically less profitable than one customer buying 1 [!] CD (producing LPs are out of the question for most independent musicians because it cost way too much - Vinyl is a rich man’s game today) we have to face it that if no one bought the CDs it would simply not make any economical sense to record music for the «non-pop» genres - and music at large would be all the poorer for that reason. - As it stands now, for most musicians, streaming services are leaches on the back of Music, and they are not doing much for music to go forward at all.

[@ShoganGeorge]

The crazy part now is that it's nearly impossible to be a CD in South Africa, there's literally no physical music stores in malls in South Africa. I used to regularly go out and buy my favourite artists CD's. The last one I purchased was online a while back. It's just not that easy any more finding physical formats here.

[@victortio]

My issue with streaming is that once their contract ends, some artists and their work simply dissapears and my only comfort is my physical collection

[@gram1608]

Key point for me. So many tracks just disappear

[@zroter]

It really depends on your listening habits. If you are essentially listening to the same "essential" albums, buying them in some form might make sense. If you are always discovering new music (listening them for a few times and then moving on) and old albums get listened no more than once a year, streaming services are way more interesting.

[@jvnb-y9e]

I love it all! Vinyl, CDs, streaming. My main source lately has been vinyl and Tidal streaming. I turned on my Rega Apollo CD player for the first time in 2 years. Played my 35 year old Led Zeppelin CDs and they sounded fantastic! My $11.00 a month Tidal subscription is a steal. Just enjoy it all!!!

[@wfifa199]

Quite right! As long as you're enjoying the music, listen to it whichever way you want

[@kenneths.perlman1112]

I too have been listening to my “ old “ stuff lately. Everything sounds fantastic. 60 years old and The Beatles still brings joy. Dylan singing Like a Rolling Stone actually raises hair in my arms. Plus a lot of new stuff.

[@tonyhodgkinson4586]

Too much choice makes me skip from track to track and end up listening to nothing, so I just bought me a new cd transport and am listening to albums again.

[@konstantinosbalaskonis4553]

This is so true. I grew up with cd's, but decided to try vinyl. Not for the sound quality (which is at best the same as cd, but often inferior), but because I enjoy the ritual even better than with cd playing. It's my digital detox time.

[@dobieprime]

Sounds like my daughter in her car. I don't think she ever actually gets the end of a song before she is going to another one.

[@hmsworcester]

Exactly why I bought an SACD player last year. It slows the entire experience down and keeps me focused.

[@kaischmidt730]

with streaming I always feel like I might be missing out on a more interesting song right now. I have gone back to listening to radio or, indeed, the collection I ripped from my CDs >20 years ago in somewhat terrible quality 😂

[@michaelmcglynn968]

This is why I started buying vinyl

[@pcm9969]

I grew up in the LP only era, followed by cassette tape, then CD, and finally to the streaming era. I used to be jealous of friends who had 1,000 or so albums. I just couldn't afford that much music at the time. Now, for about $13/month (Qobuz), I can access over 100 MILLION CD minimum quality albums. So yes, streaming is practically free. Not to mention how much space it saves me.

[@festerofest4374]

And remote listening when away from home!

[@dodpr]

I totally agree. My only issue is that there is so much music that I end up skipping tracks. Same thing happens with Netflix. So much variety that I cant decide.

[@Wuppie62]

It's true: when the supply is large and easy to get (instantaneously), it's 'value' goes down...

[@citytianyu]

That happens to almost everything today. When you have too many options, you lose patience quickly on each of them.

[@820stovall]

@@citytianyu I feel like recently I've been starting more and more new songs and cutting them off in less than 30 seconds because they don't fit some mental template I have in my head about what I like. I don't think that's a good thing. I've been doing this across a wide range of genres. I need to focus on having more patience with new music.

[@wikath449]

There is a famous (economic) book addressing this phenomenon - it is called: „The Paradox of Choice“ - interesting and enlightening

[@NeilLavitt]

My 14 year old commented to me that if you like the music more than the sound quality and don’t mind ads it’s free - referring to his use of freemium services. He says that most of his class are happy with this.

[@rosswarren436]

Pandora is still around for a reason. And Spotify still has an ad supported tier too I think, although I haven't looked at them since I switched to Tidal.

[@wfifa199]

Which is no different to listening to the radio really

[@proinseasburke2681]

I pay for two music streaming services, Tidal and Idagio. I use Tidal for pop, jazz, etc etc, and Idagio for classical, my main musical interest. The combined cost of these services is 23 euro and 98 cent per month or .8 cent per day. I am amazed at the volume of music that is available to me at the push of a button. I realize i don't own the product but I am able to download for offline listening. Moreover, if both Tidal and Idagio doubled their monthly subscription I would still pay the extra for the wealth of enjoyment I receive.

[@kenneths.perlman1112]

Well said

[@siguz6070]

Another benefit of streaming: It's available on all of your devices whereever you are. Someone could put their bought music on a server to stream it in house or even over the internet to their own devices. But this includes some IT knowledge and some hassle. And if we would ignore those, then it will still require you some hardware to store this library on, and the power to operate this server.

[@viis]

I now want a list of John’s 1000 essential albums lol Pretty sure I could guess a couple hundred of them…

[@misterdisc]

I second this request. I already did Rolling Stones Top 500 years ago, so would love to tackle Darko's 1000 list

[@gioponti6359]

seems crazy but I guess you can put together 10-20 artists per country, each of them with 10 albums over a career..

[@itsmetimmee]

lots of RHCP on there i bet

[@viis]

@@itsmetimmee oh of course, and definitely void of any Aphex Twin or Monolake

[@JaradPetroske]

Radio Paradise offers free streaming of great tunes with FLAC quality.

[@dobieprime]

I listen to it sometimes on my Nodes. But...I wish they had more variety.

[@DavidHamilton5]

Surprised he’s never mentioned them

[@micalo5221]

I'm still buying digital copies on iTunes because it is convenient and reliable. I stopped using streaming because even though it allows you to discover new artists and songs that might sound good, it still lacks emotional attachment. Most of the time, my streaming experiences are wasted on songs that might sound good but don't really matter to me in the end. So, I prefer to buy what matters and listen to what matters instead. P.S. In the case of iTunes, the songs you buy in an album don't disappear when there are changes in licensing. You will still be able to re-download them.

[@christopherviers8302]

I grew up in the Midwest, in the 50's & 60's, so gaining access to a wide variety of music was next to impossible...!!! You basically settled for what your AM radio could pull in, so sitting in a car with friends during the wintertime was always the best, as you could get the good stuff, like KAAY, WLS, etc... The mind-blowing, amount of music available these days for next to nothing is really fantastic for my old head...!!! Some aspects of the 21st century are truly a wonderment - especially the music scene...!!! Nice review/opinion piece...!!!

[@COMA69BAND]

whether you've bought physical media or stream, when your time is up, it doesn't really matter, you can't take it with you....we rent everything we own, it's all temporary, so do what makes you happy.

[@maxhirsch7035]

Also- I'd encourage people to do what makes other people, particularly in this case working and especially struggling musicians, happy as well!

[@mrpositronia]

At least we got to enjoy holding the record sleeve and reading the liner notes, looking at the artwork and remembering where you were when you first bought it.

[@dobieprime]

Well...all my records will be going to my children who also love music and actual media they can hold and love.

[@newdevilman1167]

John, you nailed it! “Music comes before HiFi audio”!!! I love audio hobby but great music heals. We need more artists who can make living by producing & performing music. Streaming service really needs to come clean about how the money is distributed by streaming. The transparency is the key. If the money is for everyone who are part of making great music, then I am all for it.

[@puddingchewer1018]

Darko! I always liked your music-first audiophile attitude! If you haven't done this already, i think a second channel where you talk about music would be a fun watch! 🙂

[@mrpositronia]

I feel nothing from streaming. Even though I still do it. If I really like what I hear, I will look to buy the title in physical format.

[@pimvanvliet2812]

When I was a young bloke, we used to drive to another town every Saturday afternoon to buy CDs. We would then go to a cafe to have a cuppa, sometimes with a slice of cake, or a few beers. Considering what I paid just in fuel, food and drinks cost, compared to what streaming costs, you could easily argue that the music is essentially free. I am so delighted to have this enormous library of music at my fingertips. Noting beats it. I do have to say, the artists should get paid better and if that means my streaming service cost have to go up, I think that's perfectly reasonable. I'd even sign up for a pay per stream model, which I reckon is the only way for artists to get what they deserve. Anyone who disagrees with me is welcome to come and mow my grass every week for the solid remuneration of $1.50 per year.

[@scottcarlon6318]

Forced into early retirement because of a motorcycle accident that left me pretty broken, I was left with limited financial recourses. I dont have the funds to buy Albums or CD’s, so streaming services are a God send. I am so grateful to be able to listen to such a wide variety of music that would be financially out of my reach. Great video as always John. By the way I use amazon music. I could afford a small monthly fee, maybe 5 to 10 dollars a month if I knew that proceeds went to the artists.

[@TexasScout]

I have about 800 vinyl albums some of them going all the way back to the 50s

[@Grant-ud2ws]

Always look forward to a new Darko video and hearing John’s thoughts on music, audio, and the lifestyle of music addiction. For me, streaming is a convenient way to discover new music and well worth the cost. But once I find something new I really enjoy, physical media will always be my go to. CD, SACD, and vinyl-depending on the type of music, when it was recorded, and how it was mastered.

[@johndipetrillo4924]

Great synopsis. Keep up the good work. I really appreciate the effort you put into your research and the quality of your content. Thank you!

[@lindholdt7550]

I love my CD collection, but I also can't live without streaming. Everyday listening and discovery for streaming, and then I buy and rip (if not bought through Basecamp) the albums I find myself coming back to on a regular basis. Not cost effective, but thats how I enjoy music the best 🙂

[@grahampelliott9090]

Excellent analysis. I started subscribing to Spotify when Twitter polls appeared in which pieces of music (classical in this case) were compared, which gave you new music to listen to as part of the activity. Apart from KZbin, the only way to access these were streaming. You could listen to all of the piece, or just the first few minutes. It was a basis for discovery which buying downloads could not match (nor physical media, though in that case there would also be a time lag which would prove completely inconvenient). I know poeple who subscribe to streaming but then get the CD of a favoured piece in order to have better sound or feel they posses that music in a more real sense, but I feel the sound of Spotify at max setting is perfectly good, and I would rather not find the space to store loads of CDs. That is another way in which both downlaods and streaming are less costly than physical media - in respect of space saving and reduction of clutter. You don't have to have a bigger house/flat just for your music collection.

[@OzSteve]

My "collection" vinyl, CD (and SACD) I rip my CD's to FLAC and then store those on a NAS to talk to my streamer and then into Roon, I then use Tidal for Roon radio to discover new music and then purchase new music. I then go to markets and the like to find the older original recordings over the 'remastered' versions Great video as always

[@newdevilman1167]

Streaming service really needs to come clean about how the money is distributed by streaming. The transparency is the key. If the money is for everyone who are part of making great music, then I am all for it.

[@stephenrichards5869]

I’m interested in this too, who gets paid when I stream Nick Drake?

[@justadad2304]

Qobuz (I say as a music-first audiophile as well, really, it does have so much music to explore and keep up with, both new and old, but then on top of that... it sounds better)

[@chrishahn2937]

One thing that really sucks is when Apple arbitrarily makes songs unavailable in your country. There’s a great live house album that I love that has had over half the songs be made unavailable with no explanation to the user..

[@andycampbell5416]

Excellent Video that John ,,,, when it's put into perspective it all makes sense ,,, cheers 🍻

[@_lukemoloney]

Very enjoyable take, and accurate insight. Thanks John!

[@great100m]

My audio system is primarily used for HT (90%) and distributed music thru ceiling speakers. Therefore I recently dropped Spotify w/no ads and replaced it with Pandora w/no ads. Saves me about $70 per year and serves me well.

[@ABC-rh7zc]

A few problems with this... I recently tried to send 8 album recommendations to my brother, who uses Spotify. Only 3 of the 8 were on Spotify, so it's far from a complete catalogue. Also, there's no point in taking 100 million albums into account if they are albums which you don't want to hear. I probably only want to hear 2,000 or so albums of the Spotify catalogue (so $4.50 per album for life) and then I need to add thousands more albums from CD or FLAC. Then there is the fact that none of the streaming services are making a profit and most will disappear at some point. Once the competition is eliminated, we can expect the price to increase significantly. Streaming is economical, for now, but not a complete solution.

[@ChrisWhittenMusic]

Only paying to the gate keepers though, not the people who make the music.

[@Wuppie62]

But you don't know which 2000 albums you'll want in advance. It's like having a membershipcard for a huge library: you have a zillion books to choose from, but you won't read them all..

[@citytianyu]

The problems you mentioned are legit, however, regarding the video's topic, you need to compare the similar scenarios to owning physical format. If you recommend 8 albums to your brother in CD era, either he only borrows the CDs from you to listen (then you cannot listen to them for a while), or he needs to buy all 8 albums by himself, which is $120. More realistically, he'll borrow and listen your CDs and then choose to buy, maybe 3 of the 8. Of course, this procedure has more fun than just send him a list in a message. For the life span of streaming services, I think it's overthinking. It's like you are buying CDs but worry about some day nobody will produce CD player anymore and when your CD player is worn out, you are doomed. It's possible, but it's not happening until today, and it's not going to happen in the foreseeable future. Maybe try to increase your own life span is better and more productive.

[@ianmany2354]

Being able to listen to all of the new releases every Friday in the genres I love, makes £10 per month for qobuz the bargain of the century. The days of getting home from the record shop and realising you’ve wasted a chunk of your hard earned wages on a dud are thankfully long gone. We live in amazing times.

[@Krell666]

Amazing times for the consumer, terrible times for the artist.

[@geoffholmes3851]

Thanks John, very thought provoking topic, if I knew artists were going to be paid more for their efforts I’d have no problem paying more for subscriptions. Also I’d be curious to know how streaming companies are structured in terms of tax minimisation, that is, where they’re registered etc. after all they’ve made the music industry buckle to their business model, so paying minimal tax should be a snack!

[@cunawarit]

Great video 👍 prompted me to watch my Wrapped. It's very different from what I expected.

[@carloc8763]

I enjoy streaming for the endless possibility of accessing any music, in particular new music, instantly and virtually anywhere. But when it comes to my favourite artists, I am still - almost without wanting - buying the CD. But I am 60 year old, after all.

[@earlofmar11]

Same for me (including the age)

[@danieli.9252]

58 and buying CDs again. My wife thinks it’s dumb, but I am gonna keep it up. Cheers!

[@thedarkknight1971]

04:30 - The Orb's Adventures Beyond the Ultraworld... AWESOME album!! 'Little Fluffy Clouds', 'Into the Fourth Dimension'... BRILLIANT tracks! 😏👍 😎🇬🇧

[@Milo_Molnar]

Great video John and you are right. I'm 64 years old, but streaming, /Tidal/ is definitely more convenient for me. For a few euros, I can listen to every hot new release and basically almost every one of my favourite albums.

[@James_L_RCC]

I love John's Post-Modernist approach to everything... An Englishman in Germany, indeed!

[@KlaasEQR]

I use streaming with Apple mainly for evaluating music. The albums I like, I buy on vinyl. So streaming is the cause I buy more LP's, thus the artists are earning more. The second reason I stream is that I'm able to listen to music I probably never would have bought. So these artists are also earning (a little) more money. The low (no marginal) cost of streaming is helping to spread music over a wider public. With 'marginal' costs, I mean that every extra album I listen to, I don't have to pay extra for. But still, for a 20% higher price I will keep my subscription. But what effect will it have on the large numbers of subscribers? The marketeers of Apple, Tidal c.s., will have calculate the optimal price I think. Maximum profit for the streaming services = maximum profit for the artists.

[@michaelerlander9961]

I have Spotify, Tidal, and Apple Music subscriptions and I couldn't agree more. I mainly use them for discovery (Tidal), making collaborative playlists with friends (Spotify), and not-at-all-but-it's-part-of-a-bundle (Apple Music). Most albums that I listen to more than a couple of times I also purchase. I can think of a number of artists I would have never heard, and subsequently purchased physical copies of their music, if not for streaming services (Fred Thomas, Sleep Party People, Kid Dakota, Hamish Hawk, The KVB, a.s.o., and so many more).

[@bobgaskins]

Plus... if you're 100% streaming, you don't need to worry about storage space or where to put all those 10,000 albums! But... ownership does have its attractions. ;)

[@Weyasey]

What happens when your isp have a problem if streaming is all you have to listen to music??

[@keithposter5543]

2:53 - Eat Static - splendid taste, sir 👍

[@DarkoAudio]

Yep, I really dig their first few albums.

[@leonvanderlinden6929]

Spotify brought me so much! Using it for a couple of years now. Wrapped learned me this week the names of the genres genres i seem to listen to!

[@chefmike8888]

I am similar to you in that I usually will only purchase 1 or 2 songs from an artist if that is their complete works. I like the term Music first- Audiophile. My collection consists of vinyl, CD, Digital and I have a fair amount of cassette tapes, definitely have a handful of 8-track tapes and for a 2 year period I loved my reel to reel. Neither of the tape versions gets played, in the 8 track case I don’t think they will play. And reel to reel tapes I don’t want to damage and are safely and properly stored. All of the above are now in lossless digital format like flac, wav etc..

[@roa5359]

Brilliant

[@richardlowe4069]

Its all about the data baby! I love it, a great video.

[@Jorge-Fernandez-Lopez]

Streaming is a great solution for many people. However, I guess that subscription costs will increase in the next years or decades (lifetime). If these services disappear, we will have to buy the albums anyway (probably more expensive in the future). I don't know, if these files and the quality are exactly the same that my compact discs. I do know that some are not -worse- even if they are presented as Hi-Res. I can't be sure if dynamic range, volume or any other change has been applied on these files again. I use my own server and I do know that the files are exactly the same). I can apply parametric equalization (for room modes) permanently to a group of files without external hardware or software (Roon, etc) that would need live equalization each time (more noise, computers, etc..). Streaming and compact discs (or records) are different products and give different services. In my case, one can not replace the other.

[@dieselbrodeur]

What do you mean bu disappears ? there will just be another player replacing them in such a case.

[@bgroovin1343]

For everyone saying he didn't include the cost of internet services, etc. I wager you would already pay for that service regardless if you were streaming, so he is correct to not include it. In some cases you can just use your already paid for phone service. And for those of us who enjoy our physical media, don't forget to include the price of all the stereo hardware. Much cheaper than any streaming hardware. So yeah, streaming is a pretty good bargain. But I will always love my wall of records and CDs 😊

[@Cuchulain-rk1kw]

Can’t wait for the top 1000 albums video!!!!

[@TC-mb2pw]

What you say is of course true. But in my situation (aging and retired) I have been trying to cut back on subscriptions for some years, knowing as my income diminishes, justifying monthly outgoings becomes harder. So while I was still earning, I invested in as much music (cds and downloads over recent years) as I could knowing it was mine forever, and not just while I could afford the subs. Subscriptions are for young people! Interesting point about downloads for your notional 1,000 albums suggesting you might not be able to find all you need - I always found subscription services had much less of the music that I want (eg obscure prog rock) than I could find online to purchase ie Spotify et al had less to offer for me.

[@tigertiger1699]

You’re bang on again John…, it’s super cheap way for us to enjoy people’s hard work…

[@bobk3840]

I remember in the 1980’s when CD’s cost $20 to $30 a piece in the USA.

[@824tonimarie]

Wow I was thinking about this just yesterday... we are all connected. I came up with the idea that I will keep streaming,buying Vinyl and CD's. Thank you for going the xtra mile and doing the math to the % level 👏👏👏 I so agree with you. Thank you thank you!!! You are appreciated! 🎵🎵🎵🎵

[@rikardekvall3433]

John, you are right and correct. Sadly the record companies take most of the profit from streaming and physical media. The artist get bread crumbs. But to have physical media is nice, because you can touch and read on the leaflet. Touch it. Listen to it. BUT streaming is great and soooo convenient.

[@ChrisWhittenMusic]

Not just the record labels. Independent artists and DIY'ers are earning almost nothing from streaming. It's the streaming model that is at fault....not so much the labels.

[@zenflynn]

love the inclusion of LCD Soundsystem in the b-roll 🤘🏻

[@DarkoAudio]

American Dream is a tremendous album!

[@zenflynn]

it is! I got to see them live twice last month 🤗

[@Paulruk]

Still buy CDs, I will maybe stream a radio and if I hear something I like will buy the cd. It just feels like you actually purchase something rather than digital that just gets lost on a hard disk somewhere and forgotten. I can visibly see all my cds in my lounge.

[@GreenArrowNetwork]

And because streaming is effectively free, Apple Music has become my number one tool music discovery tool (you're a close second John). I can trawl through the world's collection and if I pick a clinker, no big deal, because - effectively free. I'm getting into some great and wildly diverse new music this way. Much better than radio or record store bin-diving for discovery as back in the day.

[@adge74]

Watched kate nash talking yesterday about how bad the system is and how she was paid .003 per stream of work. It is surely not even worth bothering to create music at that price. Also i did read this week that apparently there was as much music released in one day, than was released in the whole of 1989. Mental so its obviously not the case of less being made. For me i do miss going and buying the physical product, but with a family subscription to tidal it makes complete financial sense. And while growing up i was only ever able to buy certain albums from certain artists. I do love the fact that im able to listen to so many styles of music and artists back catalogues. If i had the means i would still purchase all the ones i really like, but also now i can be glad i didn't buy a record that only had one or two good tracks on it. Or rebuy the same album over and over on different formats which surely is where a lot of the legacy money was made. Rick Beato had done a couple of videos talking about the scams within the music business as a whole. You just realise its never been a great industry to be in for lots .just wish the artists could be paid properly, because now live music is starting to become to expensive to go to, especially with my children. The conundrum continues.

[@karlernstbuddenbrock371]

Great point John!

[@BabakAmini86]

Saying something is "too cheap" is an very different argument (with considerable political and ideological implications) than saying something is "effectively free". Regardless, without attention to copyrights restructurings and music production before and after mass music streaming, the discussion can't go any further than a customer guilt-ridding for a poorly formulated argument. Even though John's final thoughts at the end of the video touches on some of this, it still fails to underline the need for rethinking (if I may say so, "democratizing") the rights and redistributions of profits and perhaps ways to do it, he falls back on the limited perspective that the consumer centered approach imposes and simply states that the guilt ridden consumer must confront this balance sheet disparity (and perhaps injustice but towards who and who would benefit from such change?) by having the consumers pay more for subscriptions.

[@riagnol]

The cost of physical format storage is also part of the value equation over streaming.

[@PaulRigby]

I agree to some degree, sole artists make the money with content, merchandise, tv, radio etc. The cost of a music ticket now is astronomical. It’s the smaller artists I feel sorry for. The bigger ones don’t look to be doing too bad.

[@robertayotte7033]

You made a good point and I agree that the statement is true in the context you described. This said: even with an average of 20 hours per week listening to music, it would take 5+ years to have a listen to every track of every album in your example of 8000 albums (at an average total of 45 min per album)... Numbers !! But I think that the argument that really sells streaming for me is the sheer potential. Thanks for sharing all you great insights.

[@alex_g_wood]

John, good mix of content, keep it coming. I’ve noticed an LP sleeve just behind where your left hand speaker is in your German flat, what is the artist/album? It’s been bugging me for two videos, can’t quite make out the details, is it a barn or house on the cover?

[@fairmania]

My brain hurts now... too many sums for a later evening. Nice work John, clear or clear as mud, it's too late to tell tonight...

[@neil3112]

Your argument regarding paying more is a fair one, I am forever telling my kids how lucky they are to be able to listen to almost anything. As it stands though any additional money from a price increase would mostly go to Spotifty/Apple/Tidal and not the artists. I'd also echo the comments regarding mastering, if for example you listen to an older album from the 80s there is every chance that you will get a later brickwalled remaster on streaming.

[@esce69]

Another advantage of streaming: all my brother's albums got stolen. This was before streaming so the only thing that was left, were the cassette recordings.... with streaming there is no hassle about backing up your music....and you never loose it because you carry it with you everywhere.

[@arthurwatts1680]

After watching your Plexamp vids, I got it up and running but I honestly can't be arsed to use it. With a few exceptions, I just know my own music far too well and I can listen to it anytime I am at my computer. Sure, there are CDs but the first thing I do with those is burn them to disk. KZbin gives me ad-free videos (including yours) for 14.99 AUD a month. It's lossy, but do I really care in the less-than-ideal environment outside my front door ? I don't but many audiophiles would. I can listen to throwaway pop from the 80s or 'Harajuku-core' from 2024 without having to buy a single CD - it's disposable entertainment. I'll let you get back to the hardcore audience.

[@cosmicalsounds]

my complaints with streaming services are one, some songs get removed (I end up purchasing from the artist), two, not all songs will be available on one specific streaming platform (all spread across iTunes, Spotify, Tidal, Qobuz, etc.), three, the biggest reason, we. don't. own. anything. I want my favorite pieces of art to be kept in a golden safe where i can bring it back and enjoy it all over again.

[@bigtom6939]

I subscribe to Qobuz and primarily listen to classical music. I have nearly a thousand albums in my "favorites" and try to listen to most of them. For what I pay, it is well worth the price.

[@dtna]

I've kept some very rare and out of print albums I recently sold two produce crates of albums and kept two crates of the classics. But some were demos and I didn't pay full price. I like my Spotify with a DAC.

[@ptpoul]

I only had 100 cd's and maybe 300 vinyls mostly with 4 tracks pr. Vinyl. John is next level.

[@sergueilarionov632]

Oh, man.streaming even changed my music consuming pattern. I am listening so much new classical music now which I would never buy on CD (too expensive and too risky, I might not like many of them)

[@dre7767]

I agree with you. I use Tidal because they pay the most to artists per stream. However, raising streaming prices for countries with weaker currencies could be problematic. The older system of owning an album was better; more sales went directly to the artist. There’s no rental system for books from Amazon, so why is one form of creativity treated differently? I've started buying CDs and ripping them to a drive, which poses another moral dilemma: I’m bypassing any money that would go to the artists since I’m only paying the store I bought it from. Alternatively, I could purchase music online, similar to how I would buy a book. Ultimately, the only time an artist isn't getting shortchanged is when they are selling their work directly at the door of a concert.

[@eugeniorenzi7790]

Hi John. I get you point. Totally. And from a music-first audiophile point of view I don't think that I have any objections. Also you demonstration was quite wit, as always. However, the only point I see against streaming is that if you find yourself in a position of need (it happens), you can sell you records and CDs. Where the money that you gave to apple stays in apple (or in Cupertino...). Thank you for your video anyway.

[@juliangreaves4727]

I agree with your position. Personally, I don’t want to own physical media. I used to have substantial cd and album collections….and then I bought a streamer. This was a dozen years ago and I barely ever played physical media again. I would happily pay an extra £5 a month to make sure the artists I enjoy get properly paid for their work and my listening pleasure. Dear Tidal. Please make this so.

[@RedSince71]

I totally agree with what you're saying and would be happy to pay the increase in subscription for Tidal's service. I doubt very much whether they will though after recently eliminating their high tier subscription service and merging it into the cheaper variant. The prices will increase in-line with inflation but I think they'd lose a lot of casual subscribers because of it. They have to bow to the lowest common denominator to stay competitive. Audiophiles are many, but not the majority.

[@d_a_n_a2300]

You don’t rent cool you own it__

[@HectorHughMunro]

Artists were always ripped off. The Small Faces were a case in point (they were on £20 a week plus clothes) but it has always been a significant problem across the board. If we were to pay more for streaming, I’m not confident that it would go to musicians.

[@uofmtigertech1316]

I think streaming is a great bang for the buck for music lovers. That being said, I know a lot of people that subscribe to Spotify or Apple Music (sometimes both) and just keep paying even though they spend a lot more time listening to podcasts ( which are usually free.. with ads). All streaming platforms are a bargain if you use them all the time, but I know people that just don’t get their money’s worth and would spend a tenth as much on CDs. That’s streaming economics, they are betting you won’t be compelled to cancel when you’re not using the service thanks to the low price. I am sure Darko listens to a lot more music than most average listeners. I do too.. I subscribe to Apple Music and Amazon despite already being subscribed to KZbin ( which gives you access to music).

[@nuare]

On tv screen my lovely Earth, Wind & Fire - In The Stone. Like & Respect

[@johncolton]

I'd happily pay $ directly to the artist for the act of placing an album in my library. I agree that streaming is way underpriced and I would only feel good about paying more if it paid the artists I choose to listen to. The monthly subscription price for discovery is great.

[@lsaideOK]

You must be pretty naive if you think raising the price of streaming services will result in increased pay to the musicians. The best way to reward the musicians is to buy their physical media if you happen to stream it a lot. Or go to their concerts or send them a tip. Or all the above. Otherwise, a steady diet of low-cost streaming contributes to the artists getting ripped off.

[@9mmmike642]

Please also see them live and buy merch like t-shirts, etc.

[@dominey]

I'm old enough to remember when record companies claimed - when the CD format was introduced - that $15 was only temporary and prices would eventually come down. Riiiight.

[@sensational_cellar8606]

But they did come down

[@maxhirsch7035]

You haven't effectively analyzed the situation. Given the amount of inflation over the past 35-40 years since cds came out at $15- e.g. $15 in 1989 would be worth about $38 today- their prices HAVE effectively come way, way down. Do the math- over the years the typical retail cost of cds has more or less stayed at that $15 (or less, for many discounted ones), while that figure is worth less and less and less. You're falling prey to a kind of static cognitive bias.

[@SpyderTracks]

It’s amazing how many people still don’t understand inflation! $15 in 1985 is not the same as $15 today, in fact it’s about $45 today. Amazes me, it seems educated people reach a certain age and then just lose any education.

[@ChrisWhittenMusic]

CD's are $10 to $15 now, given other price rises since the mid-80's that is a massive drop in price!

[@DarkJeffau]

They never came down here in Australia.Early CDs were $20 when there weren`t many .But the prices went up.Its been a long time since I bought a CD under $30.

[@dieselbrodeur]

Regarding pricing , I think used physical medias low price is a argument for not streaming. If you basically listen to already produced music (classical,rock,pop or whatever) then buying used CDs and LPs can give you a large collection for a rather modest sum. Say 1-5 USD per record.

[@lewiscarty5517]

In my view, I like to mix my physical and digital releases, including albums on streaming that I can't get on CD or Vinyl as they aren't available in the UK, for particular reasons, but I only buy CDs of favourite albums that I have on Apple Music as I don't have a laptop, but I have an iPad to put it on there, but I don't like to buy everything, unless I really want it that is.

[@VincentRol]

For me streaming platforms work like any other social platforms which is to drive attention. The only interest for artists to post their work on them is to gather attention and direct it towards concert ticket sell, donation, merch, physical media, etc. In someways it is similar to what illustrators and artist do on instagram where they publish they work for free and for all to see, so as to create a fan base and then direct it towards buying their books, commercial works, conventions they will be at, etc. Should streaming platforms be subscription base or should they all be advertise driven so that people do not take them as the ultimate way of listening to music, but more so to discover new artists and engage with them. Maybe put the social aspect more at the forefront so as to be more like a community builder than a consumption thing (sounds like soundcloud) ? The social aspect was always a part of spotify even if, as it is, its mostly to drive artist/music discovery between friends and even tho most don't use it. And yes streaming platforms as they work now should be more expensive.

[@everyones.shadow]

I stopped using Tidal because they would drop whole artists without warning or explanation when asked. You seem to assume the streaming services won't prune their catalogue

[@Jorge-Fernandez-Lopez]

I watched Twin Peaks on SkyShowtime last year. Some days later, maybe some months, gone. Where's that great show? Who killed Laura Palmer ? Where are the white and black lodges ? Now, only "The return (2017)" is available. I bought the DVDs. I might buy the Blu-rays even if 4k becomes available again (because Blu-ray Full HD quality [image and sound] can be superior to pseudo 4k streaming.)

[@paulgal]

50 albums i listen to about 50 songs over and over

[@asokthiagu131]

It cost the same for me, even streaming cost only $17 and a new CD album cost $85. But I still buy CD, simply because of the satisfaction and happiness it can give me and piece of CD is valuable art and story that I still could find in streaming almost 10 years same goes digital downloads.

[@MKL_D]

Now let's also consider the musician whenever we mention the word ,"free".😊