Was I Wrong About Woodworkings Most Dangerous Tool?

I accept the challenge from Scott at My Growth Rings and he tries to convince me that the Shopsmith isn't awful.
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#throwdown #ToolReview #woodworking

[@anthonyraye5831]

Takes a real man to be open about learning from someone else. Good on you John.

[@coffeeguydave8149]

Absolutely legend. Self own and make it public. Humility is key to success

[@andrewwaller8499]

Yep, it's a good trait to accept when you're wrong or misunderstood. Never any shame in trying to improve.

[@howardsmith5474]

Ironic how respectful he was to a bunch of nobodies who were real quick to drag his name through the dirt

[@bobwebberkc]

I think you guys need to watch that again he never apologized continued say the tool was in his mind un safe. Look at the thumb nail he used. Think about what his motivation for the first vid might have been. Community service? Altruistic intent? Really sounding an alarm? I think not he was trying to diminish and degrade an American made tool he doesn’t understand. His intent would appear was and is self serving, ignorant and his apology fell far short of the definition. He is neither remorseful nor repentant. His initial video remains as a testament to his true intention to satisfy the algorithm at the expense of a well made and engineered tool. Imperfect yes not deserving the treatment John gave it. The blood the open saw-blade! Why would any of you believe a word this guy utters? What he did was wrong what he said was wrong and his intent was self serving and at the expense of the folks at Shopsmith in Dayton Ohio and the thousands of us that use this tool everyday.

[@frikyouall]

It was a nice thought, but I do wish he had spent less time making excuses and more time listening and learning.

[@birdack81]

As a safety engineer, being respectfully scared of a power tool is the best way to keep your fingers/hands...

[@T0tenkampf]

ageed, coming from the refineries I assumed everything and everyone was there to kill me.

[@justpastmidnight]

Exactly. My grandfather, my uncles, and my brothers and I were/are all carpenters and woodworkers. And there's not a single missing finger among us. I always say that nearly all power tool injuries can be avoided by not rushing things and not being stupid.

[@Protopious]

This logic definitely applies to power tools and guns. It's called a healthy fear. If it doesn't raise your heart rate, at least a little bit, to use these items, then you've become complacent and asking for a mistake.

[@Coen80]

I respect ALL my tools.. however, i really fear my 80's DeWalt Radial saw... and the Instruction manual even more.... Long loose sleeves and formal ties.... scary scary scary haha

[@justpastmidnight]

@@Coen80 - Exactly! Ha ha! That manual for the DeWalt radial arm saw... that'll leave you in a perpetual state of sphincter pucker.

[@TeddyWestside412]

I want to see you and Scott build something vs each other. Scott uses the shop smith and you use the tools you showed at the end to see who builds the better item.

[@blairdog2581]

but they both have to do it in a 1 car garage

[@jerbear7952]

Why? Scott teaches how to use a shopsmith. John ckick baits youtube. Scott didnt claim to be a master wood worker. I could out build both with my shopsmith but only because I read the manual and watched scotts videos. A build off would show nothing.

[@sakikogookheng]

@@jerbear7952 You could out build Scott because you've read the manual (which Scott heavily implies that he also has done multiple times in the video) and you've watched Scott's videos?

[@richarddavis9362]

@@blairdog2581 Who lives with a 1 car garage?

[@richarddavis9362]

@@jerbear7952 Yeah, actually it would prove a great deal. I challenge you to cut up a 4x8 sheet good using that joke of a tool called a Shopsmith vs. a regular tablesaw. You would be struggling mightily, while he would have 4 cabinets together before you had your first cabinet side cut.

[@Kpagenuc]

Soooo.... I bought a Shopsmith 510 (just like the one you had) for my SMALL garage shop. I'm a hobbyist and don't do professional stuff for sale. I love it as it has all the main tools I need. Being a retired Nuclear Power Plant Maintenance person, I DO read and refer to manuals (after working in a heavily rule-based work environment) AND I have the time. When I first got mine, I went completely through all the maintenance and setup. Yes, I took awhile, BUT once it's done, you only have to do it every so often, based on the use. Yes, it does take a little more time and effort to change setups (vice just moving from tool to tool) but it is still VERY convenient for someone with a shop with the square footage of (probably) a corner of your warehouse sized operation!!

[@joeforte5468]

Ya man I remember it took me DAYS to set up the one I had

[@robertgillcrist9528]

The fact that you allowed this man to come into your house and critique you on video and both of you remained respectful. I am.even more of a fan than I already was.

[@swr420]

How dare John say this tool is unsafe. All you need is 40 years experience and it's safe as hell.

[@nr1690]

Bs I used my first one two years ago and if you pay attention set up and adjustment is easier than getting my craftsman saw properly adjusted

[@swr420]

@@nr1690 I'll take your word for it. I don't know anything about it. Just making a joke. Impressive you can still type with your remaining fingers though.

[@Boosty_Boost]

ikr ! xD hahaha. Good point

[@Boosty_Boost]

maybe you should read the manual of your craftsman saw then .. and pay attention while setting up@@nr1690

[@fancyhoundwoodworks9739]

​@nr1690 tell me you don't know what anecdotal evidence is without telling me you don't know what anecdotal evidence is.

[@777chris]

John, I have a Shopsmith and a table saw (integrated into a workbench). I use the Shopsmith for the drill press, bandsaw and sander. It works very well for those. This video was a much fairer evaluation that the first one. Thank you for doing it.

[@CheapCheerful]

John handled himself so well here. This is how mature adults should behave when confronted with a difference of opinion, or simply a situation where you have something wrong, or are ignorant on a topic. It's okay to be wrong! That's how we learn. Making mistakes is critical to human survival.

[@ryanbradley1573]

29 year old Lead trim carpenter here, been doing all kinds of woodworking for nearly a decade, and I 100% fall into John's camp on all of his 1st video and concerns, but good on you John for taking the criticism and push beyond the discomfort that is the Shop smith!!

[@billymurphy3]

On no, you shouldn’t be trimming lead. Lead is bad for your health.

[@MASS1866]

50yr old hobbyist/diy-er. Way more familiar with reading instructions on new and strange to me tools. I also am a fan of using older, cheaper tools. To each his own. For the smaller foot print. Usually, no matter what you’re cutting or making, or the tools used, bigger the footprint in the shop. Shopsmith packs up small when not in use compared to having individual tools. I don’t have one but am considering it for the quality of the tool and space saving aspect. Great video.

[@nzphilly]

Please tell me you gave him a "time to get squirrelly" shirt 😂 Great to see there's still true men out there who are willing to admit when they're wrong and made mistakes, and accept advice/help. And men out their willing to come and help out. Props to the both of you guys.

[@ayellowbeard]

Yes, more of this please!

[@shadygunshow]

Yeah it’s cool, but I still don’t think he was wrong. Like at all.

[@joefairfax]

I inherited my grandfathers shopsmith and I have used it a ton, as a drill press. It does drill press really well, the thought of trying to convert it to do anything else is just daunting. I couldn't see myself buying one to be a "do all" tool. Good on you John for being open to having Scott out to help clarify just how complicated and time consuming that thing is.

[@IctWilsons]

I, too, inherited my grandfather's ShopSmith, 30-ish years ago. As a beginning woodworker, it was one of the few power tools I had for woodworking. My "training" consisted primarily of watching the salesmen demonstrations at the state fair, home show, and other similar venues. I have used all the basic functions plus the jointer (the only additional accessory my grandfather had) and still have all my appendages after a kitchen remodel where I disassembled the built-in-place millwork and rebuilt it in a new configuration, plus countless smaller projects. It just takes getting familiar with the tool. I'm not an expert woodworker nor a ShopSmith expert, but my ShopSmith has served me well.

[@danielhawkins8338]

I had wanted one of these since my teens when I really got into wood working. This past year a friend gave me one built in 1960 and I was ecstatic. It still runs great and while I’ve had to do some refurbishment it I am so happy to have it.

[@trevcdeal]

I'm not a beginning but I'm definitely an amateur woodworker. I've built a workbench, mitersaw station and other things and this tool is extremely intimidating. For the community to attack you and name call you over your concerns or opinion on a tool is crazy. You responded much better than I would have. Good on you and Scott for making this together.

[@Kwright304]

Not only that, but he was right. It’s a dangerous tool for a beginner

[@metal100k]

Given that the emergency off switch is in a horrible location and even he agrees and changed it on his as should put any newer worker off. Power switches should be very easy to see and use from pretty any angle you use the tool from.

[@nr1690]

What the community went after was his completely uninformed and uneducated "opinion" after admitting it was just to much work to read the instructions. Not sure how the shopsmith is more "intimidating" than any other workshop tool. He is a clown shilling for views

[@trevcdeal]

@@nr1690 You’re just proving the point.

[@Kwright304]

@@nr1690 you’re making his point for him right now.

[@thepagan5432]

WoW, that was awesome. As a lifelong mechanical engineer one of the most important aspects is patience, I've been watching John long enough to know he is not blessed with a lot of it. Scott reminds me of my tutor during my apprenticeship, blessed with so much patience, he's nearly a Saint. Real life lives somewhere between John and Scott. Most people read the manual when they get stuck or inquisitive, but Scott's right we should read the manual and perhaps note the salient points. Very generous of John to let Scott sort out the next owner of the Shop Smith, and a great post too. Thanks John and Scott 👍

[@johnfogg7858]

GREAT post!! Spot-on!!

[@sebastiankitzing2316]

I agree with you. And is what has amazed me with some of Scott’s followers comments on how they keep attacking and and giving names on John for not reading the manual. Everyone should read the manual. Should being the keyword there. Not everybody reads them and even less read them completely. That is just the reality. Just ask a friend if he read his/her car’s owners manual… Also that manual being so big with so many steps to make it safe I personally wouldn’t call it safe because there are many things and you can easily forget one.

[@TheCharleseye]

@@sebastiankitzing2316 This is why we invented Darwin Awards. For the people who don't read manuals. The world doesn't need soft padding, just smarter people. If someone is dumb enough to flip the switch on a huge power tool that they don't know how to use, maybe they get an award. Anyone who hurts themselves with a ShopSmith is probably going to do it with some other tool, anyway. Lack of respect for big, moving blades will get you cut, eventually.

[@fallentreewoodcrafts]

I am of the generation who took woodshop, small engines, and auto shop in high school. This experience taught me the concept of incrementalism. Introduce yourself to a power tool; learn to use it safely and properly, then move on to another tool. Mastery comes over time and practice. The very concept of the shopsmith is a temptation to skip the incremental approach and try to learn it all at once. I think the shopsmith lends itself to a certain temperament that many people just don't possess.

[@terremolander5243]

Thank you for taking the time to bring in Scott. Glad you emphasized safety in your video.

[@petem4962]

Pure class from John on this one -- Humble, patient, and kind. Ultimately John's right; if something is overly complex, time consuming and requires an afternoon of reading, the average person is going to miss something important. Maybe I'm out to lunch on this, but most of us want to get the job done much more than we want to build a puzzle before we start.

[@alexshepherd4469]

I got kids, and my shopsmith collects dust. It's quicker to whip out my miter saw and circular saw, or harbor frieght drill press for little jobs

[@joshuaquick5511]

@@alexshepherd4469 exactly

[@shadygunshow]

RIGHT this thing would legitimately take a new age stay at home dad an entire week to set up.

[@ethics3]

" Humble " ??? I guess you missed all the petty snide remarks he said ? Patient ??? John wouldn't shut his pie hole for more than a few seconds . Did you watch the same video as I did ??

[@dandotvid]

@@ethics3 he accepted the help of someone more knowledgeable on the tool to come over and spend an afternoon showing him how things should work with it. That's pretty humble and patient. Did it have to make him completely change his mind for it to be acceptable for you?

[@jarasblunt]

Correct me if I'm wrong but another advantages of having several independent tools are: you set them in a convenient place and use whenever you need to, not having to disassemble them if you want to use another one. Also you can distribute them around in your space, not necessarily all in the middle. Thumbs up for humbleness and good will 👍

[@Kwright304]

There’s literally a million reasons to buy newer smaller individual tools over this thing.

[@jimmckay2337]

Also, if one breaks, you still have all the other independent tools and only have to replace one.

[@Kwright304]

@@Grauenwolf the point is if your bandsaw breaks you now have to fix your table saw and lathe and tiny jointer as well buddy. Not that you can’t fix it. That it’s daisychained in its functionality

[@Kwright304]

@@Grauenwolf strong disagree. You can do the same thing with safer tools. The quality of your final build is about your skills whether you’re using a table saw or hand saws.

[@Kwright304]

@@Grauenwolf if I wanted a table saw and jointer and band saw, I’d buy those things individually and end up with a much better user experience in the end for the same cost. Also it wouldn’t be a 4” jointer

[@ShopNation]

Who knew the Shopsmith community was so frisky? I would have probably assumed they didn't use computers

[@toysoldier46552]

Your ShopSmith tour walkthrough video brought me here lol.

[@janderson8401]

I once was asked by a contractor that I worked for to cut about a dozen fake rafter tails for a job using his bandsaw. He had bought the saw a year or two before and I think he had used it a few times. The first piece was a disaster and I realized he had just mounted the saw on the stand and used it without ever adjusting the blade guides. Found the manual spent some time getting things right and it cut like a dream.

[@Icantball67]

I love the video. I love 2 people willing to learn, willing to teach, willing to adjust their thinking for the better, and willing to adjust their terminology to get across a clearer point. I know we didn’t see all of their conversations but it’s clear to see John came away with a drastically different view of the tool than he came in with. That’s the impact of a real teacher on a real student. My only wish for the video was that we saw more of the conversations about the tool between these 2 gentlemen. I’m also thankful for Johns guest. He came and was willing to teach and not reprimand John for his mistakes. How many of the other critics would’ve done the same. Some but not all.

[@KenMagee]

I remember my dad when I was a kid having a shopsmith and I always thought it was the ultimate tool. I knew someday I would inherit it. He sold it years ago before he passed and I for one was kind of happy. Because one, It is a pain to set up properly and two for it being "space saving", it really wasn't. He eventually bought the separate stand to power some of the items. I don't really remember if it was the bandsaw or what. I will say however that my dad was very meticulous, and he built some very amazing things with it.

[@alisfair]

I am glad you allowed Scott to show you the shopsmith tool system. He is one of the best owner/teachers of the said tools. You have stand alone tools and probably were given the tools because you would promote them. If a person has the floor space stand alone tools may be a better choice. I had stand alone tools and watched the mall demonstrations and liked the horizontal function. I sols all my other stand alone tools and kept my shopsmith tools. I read most of the manual. Today you can watch youtube video on operation and repair of them for free. Most of all of then have interchangeable parts. Try that with the imports. Most entry level power tools do not last the time shopsmiths do and finding parts are often unavailable. We are all free to have and opinion and no one will change your mind. Thousands who have shopsmith tools love them and often received them from loved ones who passed then on down the line when they died. I will keep my shopsmith and marvel at the machine and how well it was designed and how long they will last.

[@SuperScout392]

I inherited my grandfather’s ShopSmith in 1969 when I was 14. I never got a copy of the manual. Other than the table saw feature, I didn’t have a clue about the rest of it. After looking at it for a while, I realized the power head would stand up to make a vertical drill press. For wood working projects, the drill press feature is hard to beat at any price because the table adds a lot of functionality. After reading a few magazine articles on how to tune up table saws and jointers, it functioned very well for me. While the equipment in my high school shop had the potential to perform well, my ShopSmith worked much better because it did not suffer from the abuse of students. I purchased a SawStop for my university several years ago and it is a great saw. When I go home and turn on my ShopSmith, I never think, “I wish I was using the SawStop”. Each tool has its advantages. My ShopSmith has built a lot of different things over the past half century.

[@theoxilus]

My biggest issue with the Shopsmith is the inability to use multiple tools at once. I need to cut something, sand something, run a piece through the table saw, drill some holes, and I don't have time to plan out the order of all the steps for all the parts for my project and change my tools between each step. Half the time I don't even know what I am making to start with, so there is no plan.

[@zamboughnuts]

Yeah, I think John should've mentioned that. If you're doing a project and you have those several smaller tools, you can jump from the planer to the jointer to the tablesaw without spending a half hour reconfiguring everything and adjusting it.

[@superbeziJ]

As a Shopsmith owner I completely agree with you - joint / saw / sand and drill are all - tear down and rebuilds adding time & complexity

[@citylockapolytechnikeyllcc7936]

This is like the all-in-one gym products.... the setups from one function to another are painful if you are using the stuff regularly.. But almost EVERYONE agrees that the Shopsmith makes a damn decent drill press. So the thing will be useful even to a professional, for some tasks.

[@troystallard6895]

That's why I use mine as an extra tool, rather than the only one.

[@DrSaminstine]

Imagine having to come up with a order of operations. That’s Even harder than reading instructions. 😂😂

[@BrailsfordWoodworks]

Way back in 1978 my shop teacher told us there were few tools more dangerous than a tilting table table saw. As you can see there are very very few of them. I am with John on this one.

[@TimGray]

This! I also learned this way back when. My woodworking instructor in college (yes they have advanced cabinet making and furniture making in some colleges). said the same thing. "Dont use a tilting table saw unless you have no other choice, and even then consider going to buy something else." All tools are dangerous if used improperly, but the tilting table has a long history of maiming people.

[@leborhal7450]

"Make sure you have a clean stable work surface" is like rule one for any sort of tool\project. Thats everything from soldering to table saws - so the idea of having a work surface that is "adjustable" is the reddest of red flags. Scott makes a great point about shitty import built shop tools though - which is why vintage american made bandsaws, lathes, drill presses, etc are high dollar items if not damn near collectibles.

[@jamesstrathy2178]

Great vid very fun. I have never woodworked other than felling trees and bucking up firewood. This lived in my father inlaw's basement. I cleaned and set it up over a winter and felt I could use it after watching the Shopsmith community's videos. My Growth Rings in particular. As for content Woodshop Nerdery proved that high quality pieces could be made. Being retired time for setup was not a worry. Storage is the main feature in Shopsmith's favour. Being free was also an attractive feature!

[@redhorsewordsmith6002]

Just adding as a side note - there was a Shopsmith in the garage for Wally and Beaver's dad to use on "Leave It to Beaver" and more recently one sat in the basement (don't know how he got it in there) of Jethro Gibbs on N.C.I.S.

[@thomastheisman1751]

It got there in pieces.

[@juiceman1887]

What episode ?

[@randoman81]

The chainsaw disc for an angle grinder is the most dangerous tool ever.

[@taliamon]

Another woodworker channel did a series on that thing and his surgeries involved in the incident. I'm inclined to agree. That thing will never enter my garage, except maybe to be destroyed.

[@57hound]

Hmm, I’ve been using them for years and never felt they were any more dangerous than any other woodworking tools. I certainly feel they are safer than chainsaws. If your workpiece is securely clamped down, if the guard is properly installed, and if you use the tool with a two handed grip and don’t jam it into a narrow cut which could cause kickback i don’t see it as being any more dangerous than a tablesaw. Honestly, when used properly it’s probably safer than a tablesaw.

[@mtbmetalhead6663]

​@@57houndthey're far more dangerous than a chainsaw. The curved part of a chainsaw blade is the kickback zone, a chainsaw disc is all kickback zone. Chainsaws have blade brakes which activate when kickback occurs. Angle grinders do not. I've got one, I'll use it while wearing a leather apron, leather gauntlets and a chainsaw helmet/visor, but it still scares the crap out of me more than the 3hp tablesaw or 3hp radial arm saw (another 'most dangerous tool' 😂). I've used one of the arbortech carving discs and they're far less intimidating, obviously 5x the price being the issue.

[@randoman81]

@@mtbmetalhead6663 I was going to be less kind about then you. I've spent years as a metal worker using all kinds of grinders day in and day out. But if that's what he thinks, well enough is said about his logic and reasoning skills. Good luck, godspeed to him.

[@T0tenkampf]

my favorite to fear is the planer attachments for the drill press...no thx

[@helimech0]

Well done John. I am an owner of one built in 1957, and bought new in the box in 1958 by my Father. I still have the original catalog from Montgomery Ward where the original tool was advertises from about 1952 or 3. I turned 71 this year. I am currently in section 8 housing through the VA, and my tools are in my storage locker here in Southern California. I think the give away of the unit you bought is a wonderful idea.

[@homefrontforge]

I put so many miles on my dad's mark v as a 17 and 18 year old. The band saw was my favorite tool. Now as a 60 year old I am getting power out to my shop so I can fire up what is now my mark v. Rest in peace dad.

[@JulianBurns-nj1gx]

I own a Shopsmith and I have had it for 20 + years and I enjoy it and still use it.

[@CordellWoodworks]

I don't always agree with John but I'm glad he did this. Pretty disappointed in fellow woodworkers calling him out like they did. I knew the responses were coming after watching the video but so many videos devolving into personal insults is just shitty.

[@Daledoback24]

@@Grauenwolfyou don’t have to read the manual to see that this tool is blatantly unsafe.

[@nr1690]

He made an ignorant video with an uniformed opinion about something he chose to be ignorant and hyperbolic about. He deserves to be called out.

[@nr1690]

@@Daledoback24 far from it but I'm tired of arguing with folks who nod along to his ignorance

[@reed6514]

​@@nr1690Calling someone out doesn't require personal attacks.

[@KIIJJY6969]

@@nr1690 ignorance =/= laughing at it because its blatantly crap

[@carlmiracle1783]

I'm with John on this one. I can see where the shop smith was awesome before. A lot has changed. It would be a dust collector in my garage.

[@mirozen_]

It never ceases to amaze me how people who have plenty of space for a shop can't understand that there are those of us who's big issue is that we lack the space to store away all the shop tools we desire when we aren't using them!!! When you have a big shop and plan to leave everything set up all the time then you have the luxury to only worry about the size of things while you are using them. But for those of us who seriously lack space it's storage size that is most critical. And when it comes to weekend woodworking hobbyists I think those of us lacking shop space may be the majority.

[@chuckgrumble5440]

Mobile bases my friend. Router table, 36" cabinet TS, 2 bandsaws, MFT table, Dust collector, miter saw, 2 vaccums, 12" combo joint/planer and too many hand tools to list all fit in one garage....

[@mirozen_]

@@chuckgrumble5440 Lol! And tuck things away in every available nook and cranny when not in use! 😊👍

[@chuckgrumble5440]

lol its tight but a lot of hip checking myself@@mirozen_

[@JoshD4PREZ]

I have bench-top versions of everything John showed, while they do have their limitations, for my needs they really did save me a ton of space; cost was a plus too Also I like that they can be picked up & carried somewhere without help, or easily transported in a car if need be.

[@IndyGuy09]

So glad you included the "ain't nobody got time for that" lady in the video. I was thinking that the entire setup process.

[@VirginiaBronson]

Yep. It's not safe if no one has the time to set it up properly and safely, and no one really has time for that nowadays. It's just not realistic

[@Drew_H.]

I still don't really get its place in the current woodworking scene. It's too difficult to use for beginners, and it's of average quality for experienced woodworkers.

[@FeMelch]

YES! I was thinking the same thing!

[@qwerty112311]

idk just seems like rabid brand loyalty. Sure, it has tons of accessories that can give it comparable capabilities to a half dozen other tools. It also costs as much as them combined and you can’t buy them over time, as needed.

[@mtbmetalhead6663]

​@@qwerty112311yup. John was willing to concede he was wrong, the other guy was adamant it's still perfect (even when admitting 'it's not for that, it's not for this', making it only useful in the exact specific scenario it works in. Buy a modern 10 inch chop saw and 8 inch table saw from makita or dewalt, any small bench top pillar drill, a hobby grade bandsaw and combo 8inch thicknesser/jointer and you've got a far superior, more mobile, more capable tool kit that doesn't take time to swap between functions. Plus you can cross cut/mitre something longer than a foot. And throw everything in the back of the car. And just start with what you need for a small investment. And it's got a warranty. And a blade brake. And isn't worn out from being used unaligned for years...

[@HawkXe]

Its mostly for boomers that want to re-live their childhood...

[@nr1690]

Wrong on both counts actually. It's very simple to set up and use once you read the manual and it outworks any of my other tools. With one motor I run a jointer, band saw, belt sander, strip sander, table saw, lathe etc. What part of that doesn't work in your woodshop? I use mine to make cabinets, turn bowls, make knives the list goes on

[@TheWeekendMedic]

My family has had Shopsmith machines since the early 70s, and I still have one in the garage. Dad and I each use ours, and have come to understand that a Shopsmith does a little of everything, but doesn't do anything terribly well. I keep mine around as a sander, to run my surface planer, as a big drill press and a small lathe.

[@daveburns1443]

My dad was a woodworker and I learned from him. He had a Craftsman table saw which he had to build a base for in order to use it. When I grew up and got married I went the route he went and bought a Craftsman table saw which came with a stand. When ripping long stock or sheet goods the saw with the supplied base became very tippy. I resorted to building a table out of MDF to add weight and stability. It also allowed me to expand the table area itself. Even with the stable table the precision seemed to be lacking and great care had to be taken to get quality results. I recently purchased an old Shopsmith Mark V 500. It wasn't nearly and nice as the one you had in your shop but I read the manual and made sure everything was aligned. The precision far outperforms my old saw. Also since I only have a garage workspace, like with the Shopsmith, I still had to wheel out my table saw to use it. If I wanted to use the bandsaw I had to wheel it out. In order to add a lathe to my shop I had to build a stand that could be broken down for storage and reassembled for use. Once my Shopsmith is rolled out for use I have the ability to use the jointer, bandsaw, lathe, disc sander and drill press on the same machine in the same location. With the addition of some purchased accessories I can also have an overhead router with enough power to drive a 1/2" raised panel bit to create beautiful cabinetry. I also added a mortising and tenoning attachment to created perfect joints. It does take more time than just walking from the table saw to the lathe, or bandsaw, or dedicated mortising machine but all of those require space I don't have the luxury of owning and the extra time needed for setup of the single purpose attachments gives me time to make sure I have things set up safely and properly which reduces costly mistakes. I love my Shopsmith and plan on upgrading to the latest Shopsmith when I can afford it.

[@DyE0022]

We have a shop smith. We really just use the drill press feature (which is really good). Everything else is either too much of a PITA to set up/tear down constantly, and nothing works as good as a standalone unit. I would also NEVER recommend a shopsmith to a beginner. It's not only much more dangerous, but it just adds a ton to the already complex learning curve. The fact of it is, if these things were as great as people claim them to be, they would be WAY more popular. Instead they are fading away. I wonder why.

[@TheCharleseye]

It's no surprise these are losing popularity. It was all laid out in the video. People would rather buy cheap, Chinese crap that comes with its own dunce cap, than spend a little more on a quality tool system that lasts for generations. Basically, the instant gratification, disposable goods generation is too riddled with self-inflicted ADD to bother with something that has a learning curve. The funny part is that you claim they're fading away, when most of them will still be working fine long after all of the tools on that "beginner cart" he rolled out are deep inside a landfill.

[@DyE0022]

@@TheCharleseye It's common knowledge that a shop-smith can do everything good, but can't do any specific thing great. I would rather have every component in my shop be great at whatever specific thing it was intended for. Not having to messing around with set-up and tear down, increases my productivity and I can rely on things being true without having to check components at every turn. Cheap chinese tools =/= standalone units, especially if you wait for sales or find good used deals. They were made well, there is no question. Doesn't matter how well they are made if at the end of the day they are outdated, inefficient and less safe than modern day alternatives.

[@MrNside]

I remember as a kid, my uncle had one of those. I never really knew what it was for. It looked like a lathe that needed some parts to function, but the parts he had didn't make sense. It was always in such a state of disassembly that I figured that it itself was a project of some kind. I thought he had some old-timey specialized tool that he was trying to refurbish or get working just for fun. I appreciate that the mystery that I had long forgotten about has finally been solved.

[@chuckgrumble5440]

haha thats what shopsmiths end up as..... a pile of rubble and parts... looks like someone did mind altering durgs and took apart toasters in the corner of your garage

[@lstanczykRC]

Enjoyed this video. So awesome to actually take him up on his offer. You guys should do some build offs. Same probect shop Smith vs small entry level tools.

[@hyperionhelios190]

@mygrowthrings this is the ultimate!

[@warrenwerks]

Shopsmith was one of my first power tools followed by a radial arm saw. Guess I learned on the real dangerous stuff and never hurt myself too bad. Respect for the tool, whatever the tool you are using is probably the most important thing

[@wooddoc5956]

Wish we were neighbors. Been using my dad's Dewalt Power Shop radial arm saw for cross cuts and dados forever. He got it in 1962 when I was eight.Can't use it without thinking about him.

[@jeffgass89]

Much respect to both of you guys. Great video.

[@MMWoodworking]

The issue with the footprint argument for the Shopsmith is that you need one big space, and most garages and sheds can have 4-5 smaller spaces, for the bandsaw to be in one spot, the drill press in another, etc etc, instead of one larger open space. It may be the same-ish square foot requirement, but needing it all in one spot is much trickier.

[@robertkb64]

@@Grauenwolfthis is what I came to add. My shop smith is slid under my welding bench / soldering / sanding bench on one side, and the drill press sticking out (since that’s the single tool I use most), with the other attachments mounted to the rafters on pulleys (most of my infrequently used tools are suspended on pulleys - up and out of the way except when I need them). When I need the lathe just slide the frame out and lay it down. I almost never use the table saw as I have a mitre saw too, and it’s set up under a tarp outside specifically for cutting long pieces. For me, the shop smith is great as it occupies space that’s difficult to utilize well (under high counters) while giving me access to a lot of tools that I’d otherwise not have (a lathe being the prime example - I don’t have the bandsaw attachment or that would be on my list too). Does it do everything as well as my grandpas tools? Not even close, but most of his stuff is old iron from carpentry shops that closed half a century ago or longer - when he was building his workshop welders were still new. His lathe weighs over a thousand pounds, for example - and he didn’t keep his big one as it took up too much space, so that’s his “baby lathe.” I’m still missing a mill too, but we don’t all have room for the tools we want, and for me this is a good compromise.

[@MMWoodworking]

Yeah, I am not knocking it really, just noting that the footprint argument for it is not universal. I just wouldn't want someone thinking it is a real space saver if they don't already have a single large space to put it when storing it. It's situational, is all I am saying. @@Grauenwolf

[@thelivingafroo]

I don't know what you mean by 4-5 small spaces cause all garages I've ever seen are one open space and most sheds start off as one open space I've never seen a garage with any kind of interior dividing but anyway Scott pointed out the argument was mainly about storage if anything else

[@MMWoodworking]

What I mean is that most people park 1-2 cars, and then around the perimeter the space turns into shelving, or workbenches, etc. In a small shed shop, most of the time the table saw sits central, with an outfeed table behind it, and then benches on the perimeter hold the other tools. There usually isn't one large space in a garage that is used for cars, and there usually isn't one large space in most sheds once you put in a workbench. Maybe shopsmith people don't use workbenches? I don't know, but a lot of people replying to this seem to imply that nothing else exists in these spaces, and it's just one big spot for a shopsmith, which is something I have never seen in garages or small sheds. @@thelivingafroo

[@DatCameraMON]

​@@thelivingafrooI think I get what he means. Let me use an example: You have a square box and a bunch of puzzle pieces. Now, all of your puzzle pieces fit into this box and there are still a couple of gaps left in it. The various different tools/machines that this piece is combined together to make one of are each, say, 1 cube (I'm just using an arbitrary unit of measure) in length and 1 cube in width. Those are new puzzle pieces that you recieve and want to put in your square box with the rest of your existing puzzle pieces. In your square box, you have three 1x1 cube spaces, so you can fit three 1x1 tools into your square box. Cool! That works and now you have new pieces in your square box. Now, this machine, which combines several of those tools together, is a 1x3, 1 cube in length and 3 cubes in width. Ultimately, they occupy the same amount of space as the three other tools/machines when put together however now you have to find a space for a 1x3 cube in your square box. For some, this isn't a problem, they have enough space to put the new piece in. However, for some people's boxes, they don't have space for a 1x3 cube puzzle piece. No matter how they re-arrange their pieces, it just doesn't work. What they do have are three 1x1 cube spots where those other pieces may fit. That is maybe a slightly convoluted way to explain it but I hope that helps.

[@saltyshellback]

I remember watching the infomercials for the shop smith and they made it look so easy to swap tools. I looked into seeing how much one cost and it was a no go for me. The other thing to consider about having separate desiccated tools is that you don't have to keep swapping back and forth if you have a project that requires multiple tools at once such as a drill press and a band saw. Heck, I hate just swapping a drill bit to a countersinking bit or screwdriver bit, so I carry 3 separate drivers at once when I'm doing a large project 😄

[@nexusofcrisis8881]

I didn't hear it mentioned in the video nor do I see it in the comments anywhere, but it should be noted that Shopsmith is the only tool manufacturer left in US. They still make pretty much everything except the electronics right here in the good ol' USA. Also, the new stuff is backwards compatible with the old systems if you need to get replacement parts or want to upgrade them. The fact that so many still exist is a testament to how sturdy they were made (or how seldom the were used).

[@colinhess8900]

That machine is like a classic car or truck. IF you like that sort of thing, then good for you and good on you for keeping equipment from a bygone era alive. HOWEVER, it is NOT for everyone. Size and weight alone are a pretty big bar to entry. And frankly, by the time you’ve got enough experience to warrant even thinking about getting a machine like that, you’ll already have several of the tools. My personal opinion is that it’s a single wheelhouse tool. It’s for hobby woodworking. In my opinion, it would not easy make the jump to home improvement projects (doable but inconvenient) and it certainly wouldn’t be able to go with you in a truck and make you money. And if your making a career out of your hobby in woodworking, I think that you’re probably looking at a small shop space with more dedicated work areas and tooling. All that to say, it’s a niche machine for a niche community and that’s okay.

[@joujimiichi1]

Agreed 100% I would rather have a single tool dedicated to each operation. That allows more than one person to use tools at the same time, tools are far more portable and when safety features are convenient and already built into the tool, there is far less chance for error.

[@Boosty_Boost]

Really well explained ! Fully agreed.

[@colinhess8900]

@@joujimiichi1 hadn’t even considered having multiple people using the tools. Very good point!

[@RockPolitics]

Except that usually people who are in a niche KNOW that they are in a niche and accept it. These people are rabid dogs, insisting that slide rules are the way to do engineering, and throwing rocks at anyone who sees things differently.

[@spiketro]

All tools require knowledge and respect when using. Even the modern brushless drills could easily break some people's arm in the right circumstance. Bottom line is, know your tools before you use them, and not all tools are for everybody

[@devonsmith429]

I appreciate you being willing to revisit the topic to hear and air another point of view. That said, one of the main things I got from the original video and was only reinforced in this video is your lack of detail orientation. That's a broader concern than just how this tool is set up and used.

[@markroper9269]

All valid points! The downside is the time it takes to change to other tools. Add cordless tools into the mix......drills, sanders, routers, lights, fans, and leaf blowers......I think that is the way to go for beginners. Have a good week!

[@MyGrowthRings]

Thanks, John, for going into this with an open mind. I really enjoyed our day together and look forward to finding a good home for your Shopsmith and the give-away video is now LIVE! Hey, you will forever be able to say that you were once a Shopsmith owner! Make it a great day, Scott

[@MrMarkpeggy]

Thanks for recommending this video, Scott. I love my Shopsmith. I used stand-alone tools before when I had more space. Now that I am working in a small shed area, my Shopsmith is the perfect fit for me. I have found that all power tools are dangerous, especially for those who refuse to read and respect owners' manuals. We all have different approaches to woodworking. I respect that. This channels approach is not what I agree with, so respectfully, I will not like or subscribe to it.😊

[@jamespowell7196]

Another vote for Shopsmith!

[@TheWebstaff]

John I love you for this! ❤ Well done, very well handled!! Scott was lovely and well done for finding the middle ground.

[@willg574]

I want to get my hands on one of those. I think with a few modifications it could take care of 99% of the non job site work is need to do. Cool tool. And awesome to see two perspectives on it, in a level headed manner.

[@3866TIM]

I have my grandfather's ShopSmith that he bought new in 1955. I use it a few times a month as a table saw but I have also used it as a wood lathe, a jigsaw, sander and joiner and drill press. It does a good job at all these tasks even if it can take a while to switch to different processes.

[@samspade2519]

Great to dee you two together. Im sure scotts experiance with the machine helped bring you up to speed. As for your pile of tools, yes you were still short a lathe, sander and horizontal boreing machine, and those tool eere useless without taking something off the cart. I can use my ss as a table, band saw (or jointer) without taking anything off. Also your price was a little high in my area. I picked up a 520 (newest analog version) for 450 with joiner and an older 510 with bandsaw for 250. All un all great video and thanks john for being jhonest about how you felt before and after.

[@jamespowell7196]

I'm glad to see a reply in favor of Shopsmith, and you have two plus a bandsaw and jointer! Great! jim.

[@mkdrivingzone]

I'm a beginner and, yes, I often skip the setting up/read the instructions part of a tool. I have a hobby bandsaw (good enough for what I do) and had no idea how to replace the blade. One Snodgrass video later, I learned a lot and corrected my mistakes. Never stop learning.

[@RichyN25]

First thing I always do when I get a new tool is thoroughly read the manual

[@mkdrivingzone]

@@RichyN25 something I need to get into. I keep all the manuals to read back, but not used to having proper tools.

[@teaguewhite26]

I actually never expected this video to come. Kudos, John, for remembering your GameDay sportsmanship! This was an excellent follow-up to the original video & and it is very classy for you to take time out of your day. The giveaway is also well played & I hope the end-user wows us all with the content produced with it.

[@jseen9568]

what's funny, is your initial video made me look into the Shopsmith. I'm currently about to purchase a setup like the one you bought. it really does save a lot of space, and allows for so much versatility it's crazy.

[@chuckgrumble5440]

its a mistake brochowski, grauenwolf is just father time and cant let go of the past

[@beretgascon]

I was woodworking, Johnny boy, before you were born, and that contraption was straight out of the back of a comic, right beside the X-ray specs. It came straight out of the 1940s, as the guy said, and it should have been left in the 1950s to give even older woodworkers than me drippy, fond memories.

[@michaelcretaro9914]

I appreciate that offer your opinion and are willing to listen to others. The fact you are willing to change your mind, means your opinions have even more value.

[@BobOBob]

My "beginner" shop in 1983 was only the space in the middle of the garage where my roommate's car goes overnight. Every night. Apart from that, I had about enough storage space for three bicycles. Period. I found a Shopsmith model 500 with almost all accessories for about $600. I'm also an engineering nerd, so studying the manuals was not a problem. My first couple of weekends playing with it was all setups and test cuts. Pretty much the 8 hour estimate you made about setting up. But once, just ONCE. After I understood it, change-overs took just a few minutes.

[@johnnyb95678]

Good on you John! You brought in an expert and learned a lot from him. May not have changed your mind completely, but you are willing to share that experience. Thank you!

[@jsweizston5410]

John..you are totally right in your first take. Everyone can have their opinion and the Shop Smith community needs to just cowboy up and accept criticism like adults. This is why no serious woodworker boasts a Shop Smith as their best tool.

[@johnfogg7858]

says the guy who has never used one.....

[@mikep3813]

Idk if "serious woodworker" is the right wording for what you were thinking. If you need tools for work you intend on selling, it probably isn't the right tool for you. With the setup and changeover time, you would be significantly cutting into profits. But if you are a hobbyist, yet still a serious woodworker, it may fit the bill just fine.

[@Philter-Coffee]

​@@johnfogg7858I have never tried to use a banana to do serious woodworking either, but yet I can still quite confidently say "no serious woodworker boasts about their workshop banana".

[@WoodworkerDan]

I consider myself a woodworker. I build banjos, cabinets, tool chests, segmented bowls, and the Shopsmith is my best tool. I have the means to purchase any table saw or drill press on the market, but I prefer the Shopsmith because I can easily do things that would be difficult to accomplish on stand alone machines.

[@Philter-Coffee]

@@WoodworkerDan I'm sure there's things which would be difficult on a standalone machine (though I can't imagine what specifically) but there are also things that are impossible on a shopsmith. I see it as the Leatherman of hobbyist tools, it can hold its own and will do a lot of work, but it doesn't take the place of a dedicated tool in any of its functions other than convenience.

[@Timberjagi]

So respect to both sides, blaming somebody doing a bad job is easy when hiding behind the internet. actually accepting it and ask for help is great.

[@CleverSully]

This reminds me of the equipment I’ve run that takes months to train and learn and even years later you learn something new every time you operate it. Great video.

[@BloPsy__]

You were not wrong, this should stay in the past.

[@mrpink7395]

The Shopsmith is the Dad joke of woodworking tools. I have a garage shop, and over the years I’ve had many older guys try to sell me their old Shopsmith. I don’t feel they’re too dangerous. I’m just far too lazy for a tool that involved. This was a fun watch. Cheers! 🍻

[@jlinkhart]

I’m glad you did a follow up video and took him up on his offer.

[@masonmiller7653]

I would argue that John wearing his hoodie and the strings dangling down is going to be what reminds me to tuck them in or remove it before working next time. I'm 26, I've never had anyone in my life to show me these things or ever have the thought that it might be dangerous. I greatly appreciate John's ability to take criticism and dive deeper into it like this, not only to learn more, but to share where he went wrong and potentially save someone from getting hurt.

[@adamrevell5789]

Well done John and Scott. Great to see a healthy, respectful debate occur where you’re both willing to concede on points to come to an agreeable conclusion. Really enjoyed that, doesn’t happen often enough I believe. So often the media pits two opposing views, from parties so stubborn as to essentially be butting goats!

[@Bill_Hartnett]

Thx for this video. I inherited one with a gazillion parts & was kinda intimidated tbh. It's got a jigsaw & a belt sander & a bandsaw & all kinds of add ons. My dad would do the Scott thing & teach people how to use it. I even still have some shopsmith gift cards they gave him for helping others. After your 1st video I was like "what did I get myself into?" For now it sits in storage.

[@arondaniel]

Yeah Shopsmith intimidation is a thing. The bandsaw for mine sat in the attic for years because I didn't have the manual, didn't know how to set it up, didn't know how to maintain it, didn't know how to use it safely. That's why Scott's channel is so valuable to us SS owners!!! As for the machine, woodworking is just my hobby but I like the 1940's design and all the accessories available for it. I guess it is kinda like a classic car in that way. BTW do you still have those gift cards? I can put them to good use. 😊

[@dawidkowalewicz5845]

This is my favourite video on this channel. One man admitting he's wrong, and have to confront this uncomfortable feeling of it, and the other one who went too angry and too salty over his comments, who gets closure, over the opportunity to defend his tool and his point of view, and through that letting go over anger.

[@grublet2093]

I think when it speaks about space saving it wasn't talking about when in use but rather when you put it away, if you're a beginner woodworker and you have to share your woodworking space with the family car then when you're not using this shop Smith you can pack it up and push it into a corner and everything's compact. When the family car is out for the day you can pull out the shopsmith set it up and start working on it

[@galenvanallen6632]

This is one of your best videos!! Love the aspect of a guest. And love he is really unfiltered.

[@mariondorsett]

I’m in my second year woodworking and I agree with John. The Shopsmith looked like a dangerous ominous tool that I didn’t fully understand… but I’m glad to see this video and know that I was right not to buy one.

[@nr1690]

How exactly is it more dangerous than a bandsaw, table saw or drill press in your shop?

[@mariondorsett]

@@nr1690 as a beginning woodworker, the Shopsmith looked like a dangerous ominous tool that I didn’t fully understand. As a beginning wood worker I agree with John that this shouldn't be my first tool.

[@tnhunts2759]

@@nr1690 Power switches in significantly safer places (most having safeties and LOTO loops, nonetheless), no exposed/unguarded driveshafts, more intuitive fastening devices for anchoring moving parts or work pieces, etc. The Shop Smith is a cool novelty, but hardly advantageous in today's market. I'm a Millwright in a Steel Mill, I've worked on some broken stuff with some insane power potential that would cease my existence in fractions of a second, and I'd still prefer to not mess with the Shop Smith. Cool novelty, not practical (anymore).

[@chuckgrumble5440]

truth, thank you@@tnhunts2759

[@JETBLACKPRIEST]

@@nr1690 I like how you leave a shit reply in EVERY comment but never come back to defend it once you get dragged.

[@kylelambert1672]

My family has been using ours for over 15 years safely. They were built before the time of excessive warning labels for excessively stupid people. Maybe he just needs to learn how to handle power tools properly

[@denisebergeron10]

Very commendable that you brought someone onto your video who called you names. I’m impressed. That shows your good heart. I still think the tool is unsafe and obsolete.

[@phelans3298]

John Malarky is a effin clown….. Yeah that’s why we love him.

[@Andi.Mitchell.Designs]

You may have a point!

[@tayloru8282]

I gotta be honest. Being only a few years younger than John, I think nowadays there are much better alternatives for all of those functions that are affordable and fairly compact. I just don't get this tool at all, I'm on his side here. Props to him for making this video with an expert though to allow us to all make our own opinions up on the ShopSmith!

[@mikej5959]

Do they even make this thing anymore

[@HinoteTosatsu]

They absolutely do. The one John has is actually fairly modern. @@mikej5959

[@FerdBerphle]

John, I have a an old ShopSmith model 10ER. That model is what they referred to as “experimental revised” and oh yes it reflects the sense of safety in those days. Nothing like the newer model you purchased. I keep it around for it’s sentimental value more than anything. My dad ended up in the dog house over buying it because he used the money my mom had saved up to buy new carpet. I have used it as a light duty lathe, I use the large sanding disk, and I have used the scroll saw attachment. Like you, the exposed shafts and things like that give me a bit of a quiver in my knees. No plastic shafts but the exposed shaft coupling for the scroll saw is not good. I will not put a saw blade on it, I just wont’t. Great video and a great conversation!!

[@paulfrost8952]

Would it have been possible to retro fit guards to the exposed shafts?

[@joshuaquick5511]

As a beginner, I considered purchasing a ShopSmith however, I wanted to take 2 options into consideration. Option 1: Mill using the jointer, spend 30min setting up the table saw, rip your lumber, spend another 30 min setting up the following tool. Option 2: Mill using my flip cart jointer and planer, rip on my table, and cut on my miter cart in half the time. I took option 2 given I couldn't find a ShopSmith near me and as a beginner with little free time, I have to make the most of it.

[@firemanj35]

The best part of your videos is your always willing to learn and if you are wrong you say so.

[@cripnite]

This Scott guy is a snarky piece of work. I’d never buy one of these things.

[@thomaspaffett8303]

Agreed….

[@nolansprojects2840]

I gotta respect that you came back to this and actually brought in a very experienced guy solely to potentially prove yourself wrong. Pretty cool.

[@phil4341]

I have a Shopsmith Mark II, with the manual, my dad bought. The price list is dated 1959 and the manual is 15 pages. It was a basic model and we had some 7th grade woodshop training. None of us lost any body parts and we probably did things no sane operator would do. It isn't the quality of the models that have been out for a number of years but it does push into a corner and is handy for some smaller jobs.

[@normancurd8719]

I believe you handled the criticism like a real man. Love the video and glad he visited you, but I would not want that tool either.

[@zakkabuuz]

John showing his respect and character. Love to see it.

[@bigkiv47]

Yeah but only after he got called out by nearly all the woodworking fraternity. I'm afraid saving face doesn't amount to character lol

[@d.e.b.b5788]

My father inherited a shopsmith set in 1963 from his uncle. I had it until 2004, and gave it to my parent's neighbor, who had lived next door to them for 40 years, and had always wanted it. Yes, you can do almost anything with it, but it takes extra time to make sure it's all set up correctly. However, for those with more time than money and space in their working area, it does make a lot of sense to have ONE machine that can do all the things that are commonly used. Dad had used almost all of them, myself, the table saw, drill press, lathe, were the most common items. It's a well constructed device. Thanks, George, for leaving it to dad. And to Wally, who we gave it to, I wish the best of luck with it; it will probably out live you, too.

[@captainnapalm8207]

And THIS is the collab we wanted!!! Now I've definitely got to get my own!

[@justinoliver1984]

Fantastic to see men....being REAL MEN!! This entire video was a breath of fresh air on multiple fronts! Thank you both for the respect, and willingness to listen on both sides. Fantastic to see!!

[@RobertWalling]

One thing I've learned along my journey is ALL equipment needs to be set up initially if you want quality results. This takes time on the front end but once set up properly your set up times improve dramatically. Thanks JOhn and Scott.

[@griffinajg]

My grandpa bought one of the original model 53's, he passed that down to my dad and I grew up watching my dad make dozens of projects on it. I grew up, inherited it, bought another newer model and made dozens of projects on both. Once I had enough space I upgraded to a cabinet saw, a decent 2nd hand band saw and drill press. I have shopsmith in my blood and I can say unequivocally they're not good woodworking machines anymore. Maybe 40 years ago but not anymore. So much of my woodworking skills were set back and delayed because of my shopsmiths - so much time calibrating, aligning everything over and over, dealing with shitty cuts (for the longest time I thought table saws just naturally burned most wood).

[@davidfusco6600]

I watched the first video, I’m a machinist, but also use wood working tool occasionally at work. To me, that machine didn’t look like the worlds most dangerous tool, I’m glad you made the second video to kind of clear things up.

[@richpeggyfranks490]

This was an interesting video,but........ Fifty years ago I went to a Shopsmith demonstration and sales show. After about 30 minutes, I had already figured out that I didn't want anything to do with this machine. I could have actually used some of the space-saving characteristics. One thing I have noticed throughout the years is how defensive Shopsmith owners have become. This usually indicates there are flaws that investors (owners) feel the need to explain away and defend.

[@michaelarighi5268]

I dunno if I agree, John. A used Shopsmith was pretty much my first tool (I may have had my Craftsman 3/8" corded drill before it). Bought it in 1978. I built a deck and about 4-8' tall bookshelves and a couple small turning projects with it in the first couple of years, with no incidents. Now, the reason I can't be sure that ANY beginning woodworker could do it with a Shopsmith is that I had some experience, and a fair amount of observation of my Dad, using his ~1950 Shopsmith 10ER (an older, much less safe, version) over the years. So its configuration and use weren't as totally alien to me, as they were to you. And the prioritization of safety was something instilled, also, by my Dad. But, used with an awareness of safety, I've never had a serious, or even threatening, accident with my Shopsmith. Worst was a little abraded skin on the disc sander a couple of months ago.

[@jamespowell7196]

Yea! Another vote for Shopsmith! jim

[@jamanjeval]

People aren’t anymore impatient than they’ve ever been. What is different is that it is easier for impatient people to get the information they want and for equally impatient people to publish misinformation and lead them astray. Smart people always have been and still are, smart. KZbin just gives a platform for the others to make content.

[@ninehundreddollarluxuryyac5958]

The real advantage of these things is that they can be powered by an external pulley that goes to anything. Belts can connect that pulley to driven shafts overhead, powered by windmills, water wheels, a standing engine or children forced to run inside a big drum.

[@woodshopnerdery]

Regarding the Bench Top Tools, it’s $350-$400 for the Husky Adjustable Worktable. Great bench, well worth the money, but if you have an “always set up ready to go” requirement then you need at least two of the benches shown assuming 1 bench can hold 2 tools. So $700-$800 added on to John’s tally. Would we expect a “beginner” as John says is the audience, to build stands for these? The Shopsmith manual is shorter per tool and more efficient. Johns said his Shopsmith manual was 209 pages covering 5 tools. That’s about 41 pages per tool. The 4 benchtop tools shown in the video have a total manual Length of 179 total. That’s about 45 pages per tool. - Dewalt table saw - 44 - Ryobi Bandsaw - 55 - Wen Drill Press - 28 - Craftsman Jointer - 48 John has the false assumption that the new benchtop tools do not require alignment adjustment. In truth, the manuals for the tools document several alignment and adjustment procedures. These words appear frequently in their manuals. - Dewalt table saw “align” 44 / “adjust” 59 times - Ryobi Bandsaw “align” 12 / “adjust” 89 times - Wen Drill Press “align” 6 / “adjust” 34 times - Craftsman Jointer “align” 2 / “adjust” 24 times The benchtop tools are a great way to get into woodworking. The Shopsmith is a great way to get into woodworking. Both have shortcomings, and both have strengths. To say one is a better route is to state a personal preference not a universally applicable fact.

[@Borescoped]

Well said!

[@jamespowell7196]

Another vote for Shopsmith!