"Frodo Failed" » What Did Tolkien Mean?

[@randomiscellaneousness1483]

Frodo's mercy and kindness toward Gollum made it possible to for Gollum to fight him for the Ring and take it into the fire. In that sense, Frodo successfully saved Middle-earth, through simple kindness. It's the perfect proof of what Gandalf said: "I have found that it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love."

[@TheJhtlag]

There is a story in Welch mythology that involve twins, one being the good and kind twin, the other not necessarily the bad twin but the mischievous and troublesome twin. The good twin fights the good fight even while being hindered by the bad twin but continues to show patience and kindness to him. Ultimately, the good twin fails in his quest, but that's the moment the bad twin feels remorse and carries out the good twins objective forfeiting his life. It doesn't quite happen that way in the LOTR, Gollum did have a twin, whom he killed immediately upon finding the ring, but Frodo plays the part of the tolerant brother protecting Gollum during their journey. The ring would never have allowed Frodo to destroy it but Gollum completed the task. He was necessary all along to perform a final good act and in a sense that rewarded Frodo's faith in him or really faith in the the good willing out.

[@MelissaGarrett1980]

This, exactly. The simple fact that Frodo was a good person who did everything he could to save Gollum directly saved Frodo himself in the end. It’s as simple and as complicated as that.

[@nalublackwater9729]

I still think Frodo bearing the weight of the Ring to the very end is a win on itself. It was a small, normal Hobbit against the will of a Maia, for crying out loud.

[@TolkienRoad]

Absolutely - and I think Tolkien would agree with that point.

[@toddbonny3708]

@@TolkienRoad And Frodo's kindness shown to Smeagol was essential to the Ring's ultimate destruction.

[@rcschmidt668]

Gandalf said: “It was pity that stayed Bilbo’s hand. Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends. My heart tells me Gollum has some part to play in it, for good or evil, before this is over.”

[@Caelidh]

@@TolkienRoad and thus the FELLOWSHIP of the ring perhaps succeeded? He did not do the task alone.. each person had their own task to fight Sauron and the Ring.. a message about that we ALL must come together to fight evil.

[@thehellyousay]

It wasn't the will of a Maia, it was the seduction of corrupting power concentrated in a ring made by an immortal embodiment of malice.

[@cristinanunes3541]

Frodo's heroic journey was done from the stand of the small, the frail, and the humble. Seems to me a beautiful metaphor for humanity. He's not a king, but a humble peasant bearing a more-than-human task.

[@greenquartz]

I've always loved this moment. Frodo went as far as he could physically, mentally, spiritually. It seems to me like he got as far as he was supposed to go. That his succumbing allowed Gollum a small amount of redemption. He wasnt trying to destroy the ring, but in the end, Gollum was the one who destroyed it.

[@TheOtherKine]

And your point is?????? LMAO You said NOTHING but summarised what happened. Frodo failed. Gollum was an evil conniving cunt, beginning to end. End of.

[@DreAmeoba1]

One of my favorite moments in the entire epic ! & yes, Gollum was the accidental ‘hero’ at the very end (possibly due to the ring’s psychic hubris, regarding it’s hypnotic control over him ?)

[@DavidHeizer]

As foreshadowed earlier by Gandalf: "He may yet have a role to play" or something like that (from memory).

[@Maridun50]

I agree. And Frodo acknowledged his own failure. I wish Peter Jackson had included Frodo's remark to Sam after they escaped the Crack of Doom but before they were rescued by the eagles: "...Had it not been for Gollum, I would not have been able to destroy the Ring - so let's forgive him."

[@maralonent6257]

@@Maridun50forgive him for what. The ending was all about evil collapsing in on itself. Neither Frodo or Gollum was trying to do the right thing, they were just fighting for the power because it’s simply not possible to resist that temptation. Maybe there was a an underlying “good” pushing them both towards their fates, but it was a happy accident that saved the world.

[@tinudur2284]

As I was young, reading the Lord of the Rings for the first time, it blew my mind that Frodo lost. The good hero has lost, like Gollum Frodo lost to the corruption... and become evil... but because of the corruption of Gollum and Frodo, because both are evil they fight each other for the ring, and in the end... well basically evil destroyed itself. At least that's how I see it and to me, that's the beauty of the end of Sauron.

[@keepinmahprivacy9754]

But I think the bigger takeaway is not just that Frodo fell to corruption, but that everyone would have fallen to it. Gandalf knew he would fall. Elrond and Galadriel knew it too. Saruman fell without even possessing it, just from coveting it. So if Frodo is evil for falling, then all of them, arguably the most "good" creatures in the world, must be judged evil as well. So that's not a good standard of judgement. We can't just judge a person by their failures alone, we have to look at more than that or we all fail the test.

[@DreAmeoba1]

Evil always winds up eating itself…

[@Lordcamilli]

@@keepinmahprivacy9754 That's exactly right. What Tolkien intended with TLOTR is to present a story about compassion. Compassion for Gollum by Bilbo, by Frodo and by Sam, who could've killed him but didn't, because they showed compassion. Compassion is what saved them in the end.

[@SusannaSaunders]

Except it doesn't. Not in real life anyway. Why do you think some of the biggest companies are run by Sociopaths?

[@jameshill2450]

I think you missed something, because neither one of them ever "became evil." Failing at the job someone else pushed on you doesn't make you evil, he just wasn't strong enough. They fell to the corruption of the Ring, but they were never evil people. Gollum had the role of a "villain" but there were never evil intentions. He could have easily killed and eaten Bilbo right from the beginning in the cave, and there would have been no story. Instead he chose to have a riddle contest, and honored his promise to help even though Bilbo totally cheated.

[@aribailor3766]

Frodo, enlisting Sam's friendship, and having him as a ride or die companion on his journey is what allowed the destruction of the ring. Frodo lost a battle, but won the war.

[@itechnwrite]

@@Fisher-King - There were many heroes in the story. That’s the real point.

[@prasaite]

I dont agree. Frodo lost everything when he put Ring on his finger than cast it into fire. In LOTR lose everyone, wizards, humans, elves, hobbits, Sauron too. But Sauron lose was everyone win. And it's happend only because creature possesed by Ring bite off Frodo finger and fell down into lava with precioussss. If not Smeagoll Sauron willbe get Ring back with additional thenth Nazgul Frodo Witchking of Shire. Just look what happend with Frodo aftermath. His soul was still suffer and missed by Ring, he cant find happines in home, and he was fated to swimm out of Middlearth with sadnes and shame that he felt and with hole in his soul what was ripped by corruption of Ring. When Maiars fight, mortals are torn to shreds.

[@unverifiedverified4418]

​. I coukdnt.... in the movie i just wanted to punch sam for crying like a girl about everything lol.

[@kettch777]

Actually, if you recall....Gollum destroyed the Ring, not Sam.

[@nklinef]

It is the parallel between Gollum: who murdered his best friend in order to obtain the ring and became a monster. To Sam who carried his best friend to the ends of the earth in order to destroy it and became a hero.

[@benedixtify]

I think part of the heroism of Frodo is that, by any prediction he can't do it, but he goes to do it anyway. First he decides at the council in Rivendell, then he decides again at the falls of Rauros. I think it's the selflessness of his choice to bear the Ring that takes him so far without succumbing to it.

[@TolkienRoad]

This is why I think Frodo is a “failure” only in the strictest sense - in reality, he succeeded in getting it further than anyone else could have. And then Ilúvatar did the rest.

[@pantonal]

Simply put, Frodo may well have been the only one who could've taken the ring as far as he did, but ultimately nobody is capable of destroying the ring. One of the boldest and greatest plot points in the history of storytelling, and of utmost importance for we mere humans to meditate on. Or not. I've been wrong before.

[@micklumsden3956]

Completely agree with you; I don’t think you’re in error

[@MrRjhyt]

The wisdom and empathy of Gandalf's words guided Frodo's understanding, from righteous indignation to Mercy and Pity. A task far harder to achieve than simply express.

[@jessejordache1869]

Which is why at the moment of Frodo's inevitable fall, Frodo is described as "stern, untouchable now by pity".

[@fredneecher1746]

"I will take the ring, though I do not know the way". When Frodo agrees to undertake the task (in roughly those words), he is at his most humble. He does not want to do it - that is his personal view - but realises it must be done and he appears to be the only person who can attempt it - that is the impersonal, or Moral view, working in him. It is really that moment that allows him to go as far as he did. At the last, the personal Frodo took control but by then the Great Working had been achieved. It is a magnificent metaphor.

[@pyrrhicvictory6707]

Frodo may have failed, but his failure towered over the successes of heroes.

[@TolkienRoad]

Love that!

[@billnolte8644]

Frodo's failure was needed to show the redemptive power of mercy. Gollum was only there to do his part because of the mercy of multiple people that could killed him, but each time showed mercy, whether of their own or another's urging.

[@b.w.elliott7259]

Thank you. Very insightful and generous. Mercy can't rob justice, but neither can justice negate the need for and redemptive power of mercy.

[@rhyswallace3590]

Frodo was simply the Ring bearer. He bore it to the place of its final judgement. As a hobbit he was never gonna be the one to destroy the Ring. Doing so would've been impossible especially after suffering so long. The Ring was a force beyond anyone on earth Frodo did not have the authority to judge it's fate or by extension Saurons. This is the same reason he opts not to have Sauroman killed after the Scouring of the Shire because by the end Frodo's smallness had become clear to him. He had precieved that which was beyond him. So Frodo may have failed in the traditional sense to destroy the Ring himself. But that was never his role. He was it's messenger to the place where it could be destroyed and he resisted it's evil until he reached that point. That to me means he succeeded.

[@johnjames6980]

Totally agree with you!

[@dineshvyas]

Ring was the force beyond anyone on Earth.. here come Tom Bombaldi.

[@stoneomountain2390]

Frodos failure was in claiming the ring. While that action served to distract Sauron and help the alliance defeat the forces of darkness, the destruction of the ring would have served a similar purpose. Samwise wore and used the ring and clearly stated that he is just "borrowing" it until he can get back to Frodos side.

[@rhyswallace3590]

@@stoneomountain2390 You're right. That's the Eucatastrophe Tolkien always talked about. Frodo couldn't resist the ring any longer while he was in a weakened state and it was at it's maximum power. But claiming it as his own. Their by proclaiming himself the "Lord of The Ring " in the heart of mordor is what distracted Sauron. This challenge to his authority made him suddenly aware of the entire plan, Frodo's presence, and his mistake, causing him to withdraw the Nazgul and his forces to lose moral. All this was possible due to the will of Illuvatar. The only other way Frodo was to be free of his burden was Gollums intervention. Sam hadn't suffered nearly as long under the torment of the ring. And his plain hobbit sense allowed him to resist just long enough to return it to Frodo. In the end the Ring could've only been unmade by Illuvatars Grace.

[@jessejordache1869]

@@rhyswallace3590 The part where Sauron first perceives Frodo at the heart of his realm and sees "the magnitude of his folly" is one of the best written scenes, IMO.

[@fuindes_batwings]

Tolkien was a very kind, gentle soul.❤

[@TolkienRoad]

Indeed - one of the things I love and admire about him.

[@claesvanoldenphatt9972]

Humble, meek and strong.

[@jaklumen]

Not was. Is. Tolkein, Lewis, Dickens and others continue to plan for the future.

[@claesvanoldenphatt9972]

@@jaklumen great literature lives as long as the culture it came from does. Some writers though, ascend transfigured.

[@alexmiguelpt]

He was, even after experiencing the horrors of war. Truly amazing

[@bobafeet1234]

I loved the movies and didn't even realize that Frodo failed in his mission until recently... I almost thought Frodo turned at the last moment for dramatic effect.... I should've realized it was deeper than that. Frodo was merciful to Gollum, he took the ring as far as he could before his mind and spirit broke, and Gollum's greed and obsession returned to carry the ring past the goal line. Just brilliant!

[@franksullivan1873]

I think that Tolkien was showing a sort of correlation in Frodos’s will as with us all.Even the strongest cannot fight beyond their limits but we can overcome with the help of others.Frodos’s weakness was something we all expected ,considering how he was tempted several times along the way.However he did achieve getting the ring to its proper place and that in itself was heroic.He did his job and bore the ring.It shows we all must do our part even when we cannot see it all the way through.Frodo did the mission.

[@raygivler]

Film-wise, I would have like to have seen a final battle of Gollum vs. his alter ego, with the good half of Gollum saying, "No" and stepping backward off the brink, followed by the evil Gollum freaking out on the way down, and maybe the good half smiling and whispering "We wins" before plunging into the lava.

[@thomasesau2376]

I viewed Frodo offering the ring to Galadriel was the point in the story that it became possible to defeat Sauron and relinquish the power of evil. That it came down to the endevours of the minor entities of Sam and Gollum was a perfect climax to the story. I've always felt that the story was the development of Sam. Frodo was the agent of Sam's heroism.

[@RubbittTheBruise]

Good points made. And interesting material hinted towards. Agreed that, especially as I get older and release more of the burden of ego mercy and kindness become the key qualities of good living.

[@dennismoon6693]

Something else that might be worth considering. While I don't recall precisely to what extent Eru allowed free will to mortals, it was made clear in the Silmarillion that even in his rebellion, Melkor was still acting as an instrument of God's will, and that extended to other maiar including Sauron who entered Melkor's service. It would follow that the One Ring, as a creation of Sauron was also a part that plan. So if we look at it from the narrow standpoint of the plan formed at the Council of Elrond, for Frodo to journey to Mordor and destroy the Ring, we might consider him to have failed. But given the fact that the Ring was destroyed (seemingly) by accident, by Gollum slipping and falling, might we not conclude that the Divine plan was never for Frodo to destroy the Ring, but only to bring about the circumstances that would allow Eru to intervene in the least obvious way?

[@Drave_Jr.]

I remember seeing somewhere that Eru directly intervened in that moment.

[@havareriksen1004]

This sounds rather like the christian alibi for there being evil in a world guarded over by a supposedly omnipotent god. It's all part of his divine plan. It was not Eru's intention that Melkor would mess up the world's creation by singing his own tune in the symphony. Gollum's fall was not an accident, but a result of his oath upon the ring and Frodo's curse when he broke it. Thus the ring was bound to destroy itself, and some see that as Eru acting through the oaths and curses. What Eru certainly did to influence the war of the ring, was to send Gandalf back to Middle Earth after his physical body was destroyed in the battle against the balrog. His mission was to stop Sauron from getting the ring. Strangely, the mission of Glorfindel seems to have been to kill the Witch King, that he was the one to kill the one that could not be killed by men. But that mission was completed by a hobbit and a woman, that while fulfilling the prophesy of sorts doesn't seem to have been the plan of Eru.

[@tarekokail]

Eru created the Valar and the Maiar, and asked them to sing the world into being; from the moment of its creation to the moment of its ending. Eru allowed them free will to sing as they wished, and what they sang became the past, present, and future of the world. Everything in it is pre-ordained by the symphony they sang then. Eru neither intervened nor stayed apart; the work had already been done, the plan already created, and everything in it developed over time as the symphony had decreed. Even to the smallest details.

[@DarkAshenfall]

@@havareriksen1004 This perspective misses two key facts clearly mentioned or otherwise implied in the Bible. God is omnipotent and sees all, past, present, and future. Secondly, God does not intervene because he wishes free will of every Human to remain intact. Eru is Tolkien's version of God, and the Valar and Maia are the angels. Melkor is so obviously Lucifer its plain as broad daylight. The point is, Eru saw that all of this was going to happen. Now, what is not strictly mentioned in the Silmarillion (at least that I am aware of) is whether Eru did not intervene because he wished free will to prevail or not. God does not generally intervene for this reason. If he solved every Christian's problem, and or all the World's problems, then it would defeat the point of free will and Humanity working to solve its own problems. Its the same concept as a Parent needs to know when to let a child stumble and fall and make mistakes. So the child can learn from those mistakes and be better for it. Since Eru is Tolkien's version of God, I feel it is 100% safe to assume Eru would prefer to let his creations learn from their mistakes. However, since the world is written for drama and adventure, it did require some differences. Such as the Valar coming in to save Middle Earth from Melkor. Because, Melkor was simply beyond Elves, Men, and Dwarves, they needed saving. In the real world, you don't see Lucifer running around with Balrogs, hordes of Orcs, and other creations that could bring about the end of the world.

[@blackbird365]

But doesn't that deny any free will? Any moral blame or praise worthiness? If everyone is a mere puppet acting out a predestined script ... ? @@tarekokail

[@philippajoy4300]

These are some of the most comforting words I've ever heard arising from this lovely story. As a severe ME sufferer I had to give up Baptist Ministry after just 18 months in my church; I was accused by some of malingering and by one very close family member of having a fake illness. The idea that moral failure under certain circumstances of pressure is not to be any more countenanced than it would be if crushed by a boulder is helpful. Of course I failed in many ways in the handling of my illness but it would indeed have been something if persons had taken into account the my intentionality, and not least for me to think of myself this way is a breath of God's love. Thank you. X

[@TolkienRoad]

Thank you for sharing! May God bless you and grant you the grace to bear your sufferings well. ❤️

[@SusannaSaunders]

While I no longer subscribe to any faith in a god / God. Life is far too capricious and vile for that happy notion to prevail. Especially on a planet that perpetually eats itself to survive... Literally. If that isn't the definition of evil, it should be. This isn't heaven - it's Hell. But otherwise, yes these are comforting words. We do what we do without hope, without witness and without reward.

[@SusannaSaunders]

Ever...

[@dennisyoung4631]

No. You were *NOT* malingering - and that disease, or a great many others, nor disabilities named by others as character flaws - No, none of that is fake. You can do what you can do, and that is what you *can* do - and to do more, that requires *help.* I am not sure if I have M.E. - but I am sure I have chronic pancreatitis that began showing its first symptoms in childhood. I am sure I have other health problems that add to it - sufficient to do a fairly good imitation of that ailment you mentioned as far as fatigue. I also speak from firsthand experience regarding *multiple* misnamed disabilities - most of which I strove against in near-total ignorance until they were diagnosed later in life. I am too familiar with moving until collapse, and there being no one, *seemingly,* to pick me up. This has *really* messed with my head. I have lived many years with the sense that I did not go as far as I could. Only now am I beginning to realize just how much of a price I *did* pay, and how far I learned to push myself - yes, to the point of collapse, even. I’m being forced by advancing age and worsening health to finally accept reality.

[@blackbird365]

I totally get those feelings. Sending love. @@SusannaSaunders

[@allenscott8065]

Frodo did make the wise choice of selecting Sam as a friend and helpmate. The fact that Sam never fell under control of the ring, and never gave up his self-assigned responsibility to serve the cause as well as his friend, was in part, Frodo's best

[@purplekat5864]

Had Frodo not taken pity on Gollum, and spared him, Frodo would have been standing above the lava in Mt. Doom alone, unable to destroy the ring. Gollum's presence facilitated the rings' destruction -- a direct result of Frodo's mercy. Therefore, I call Frodo's journey and struggles a success. Along with Samwise! Without him, Frido would not have made it. It was the concerted efforts of two good men willing to sacrifice everything to save others.

[@cynthiafrancis6711]

I'm in somewhat disagreement with those saying Sam was the "real" hero: Indeed Sam's love and deepest regards for Frodo is what helped get them both to Mt Doom. But had Frodo fallen along the way before that time and the ring gone to Sam alone, the quest would have failed, IMO. It was Frodo's original drive that got took them on the long perilous road and got them where they needed to be. Frodo shielded Sam and kept him from the deeper horrors he himself was enduring under the power of the ring. Thank you Sam for being there for Frodo when he needed you most, that alone was your real mission.

[@jeffmuller1489]

I think the point is that no one is a hero alone. Heros need support because no one is completely self-sufficient by God Himself. Even those who are completely alone have God to give them breath and make their heart beat.

[@Enerdhil]

I think the catalyst for Eru getting involved was the oath Gollum swore on the Ring. He violated that oath and died. That is Tolkienian, too.

[@TolkienRoad]

Solid point!

[@peterclarke7240]

Except, technically, he didnt break his oath. Smeagol swore to "serve the master of the Precious." He does not see Frodo as the master, but as a thieving hobbit. He also doesn't view Sauron as the master ( he says "Don't take it to Him!" ). In fact, I'd argue that Smeagol saw *himself* as the master- he'd carried it for 500 years, after all. So, in taking the ring back, Gollum did not break his oath, because his oath was to himself.

[@Enerdhil]

@@peterclarke7240 Obviously Eru did not interpret Gollum's oath the way you do.

[@Enerdhil]

@@peterclarke7240 Also, Gollum referred to Frodo as "Master." I know Sam said the same thing, but Gollum was not copying Sam, but recognizing the fact that Frodo was the Master of his Precious.

[@peterclarke7240]

@@Enerdhil They were all playing their part, as decreed by Eru. I don't deny that. However, I don't think Gollum's death was punishment for him breaking his oath. It was his greed that undid him and, fortuitously, resulted in the Ring being destroyed. In many ways, if you consider Eru to be an all-powerful god. Gollum was completely used by hi, in order to ensure he kept the ring safe from Sauron. Deagol's death, the rumours of babies being stolen in the night... 500 years of mental torture and utter savagery... I do sometimes wonder why we bother with Gods. They're not very nice.

[@rbarrett111]

Was it Martin Luther King, Jr. who said you have to know where someone started in order to assess where they are?

[@TolkienRoad]

I'm not sure, but I like that quote!

[@striderflys]

Bilbo was the only one who let go of his own free will after years of carrying the ring.

[@garwynrosser8907]

I always thought that Frodo was destined to fail. He wasn't expected to survive his journey and he was going to die a hero. In essence, he was a sacrifice. His failure was to return alive. As someone else was sacrificed to destroy the ring. Yes, Frodo carried the ring to Mount Doom. But the trip was meant to be one way. Nobody was capable of throwing the ring away. It had to be carried all the way to its destruction.

[@paulm749]

Your final three lines contain a very powerful insight into what Tolkein seems to have been trying to say about the concept of original sin, as symbolized in the ring.

[@Frisbieinstein]

I'm glad you're not the author of my life. As far as I know anyway.

[@jessejordache1869]

Well, saying he was destined to die is speculation, but saying that Frodo was destined to fail because no one is capable of throwing the ring away, is cannon.

[@MaurogDark]

Did Gandalf give Sam THE TALK about what he should have done without waiting for some random Gollum to take matters in his own teeth?

[@fredneecher1746]

A wonderful insight. It reminds me of survivor's guilt, of all those soldiers who returned when so many of their comrades had fallen.

[@FattyMcFox]

Frodo failed in the same way Isildor failed, he bore the most powerful and corrupting object to the brink of it's destruction, then when the object was in the place it was most potent, it got to them. The difference is that Frodo spared Gollum who was there to, in his zeal, accidentally completed the task. Islidor had no such help, and we see from what happened to Frodo after the ring's destruction that, that he was forever scarred by it, and should Isildor have completed the task, he too would likely have been so changed and to be unrecognizable to his allies that he could never have been the leader he needed to be. Weirdly, i think going nuts and then being slain by arrows face down in a river might have been the more merciful end for Isildor.

[@bricequirl]

True redemption comes only through personal failure. Are we not all the sacrifice; choosing a journey destined to end ruinous? There is no arrangement where we can triumph ultimately using only our own devices. Frodo's power to be redeemed rooted in being the only vessel with power enough to carry the ring to Mount Doom; this struggle granted him the strength of mercy towards sparing Gollum again and again. But like Gollum, he lacked the power to ultimately rid himself of the ring. Sam's power to be redeemed resided in being the only friend perfect enough to follow Frodo to the end; his unyielding bond to Frodo allowed him to carry Frodo when his resolve was completely exhausted. But Sam lacked the meriful disposition, seeking to destroy the only means -- Gollum -- by which he and Frodo could escape demise. True redemption is the lift of grace after the utter and upmost fall of failure. Tolkien tells this story of redemption perfectly.

[@Questor-ky2fv]

The Tolkien books are among the greatest fiction stories ever written. I've always felt that Sam was underrated. A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, I had to do a book report for school. I picked The Hobbit to read for the assignment. My father came up with the idea to ask me questions about the book to help me write my report. I remember we were sitting and working at the dining room table. I eventually went on to read every other Tolkien book I could get my hands on. For a little my time I owned most of them, but they eventually got sold off at a garage sale prior to one of my moves. I have always regretted that. I did eventually get to see all of the movies for free online. I just kept looking for sites offering them for free until I found them. I'm thinking of getting both the ebook and audio versions, but I want to get a laptop or a tablet with a real keyboard first. That way I can enjoy them in the kitchen while eating or doing chores. I have a desktop computer in my home office, but I can't use it in the kitchen. The screen on my smartphone is too small for comfortable reading. With a keyboard equiped laptop or tablet I could more easily read and post comments, and also work on emails. Tolkien, Rudyard Kipling, and James Fenimor Cooper were all extremely gifted authors when it came to story telling, use of languages and accents, and use of other cultures. I still have a battered paperback copy of RK's Kim. I need to replace that too. The Tolkien movies introduced a whole lot of new fans to the books.🤗📖

[@TolkienRoad]

Thanks for sharing!

[@andreaharwood-jones7503]

Great to have a podcast that features the moral aspects of Tolkien's work. Encouragement for walking on the Way is always appreciated!

[@TolkienRoad]

At your service - thanks for listening! 🙌

[@gamrage]

Thinking about the weight the ring carried, Boromir succumbs to the rings power without ever seeing the actual ring. Powerful beings like Gandalf and Galadriel were bitterly tempted by the rings power and they had to reject it with every fiber of their being. Sam was only exposed to the ring for maybe a few hours and he had already felt the weight of the ring and it's will. You can say he failed, but I doubt anyone could succeed in the story except for Sam who constantly drew his attention away from the ring towards Frodo.

[@scallie6462]

He sees it when they are climbing the Pass of Caradhras, atleast in the movies. I do not remember if it happened that way in the books.

[@ElffriendYT]

I think in that letter someone pointed out that Frodo failed, and then Tolkien said that he did, he gave in and claimed the ring as his own. The word failed was quoted - so I'm not sure that Tolkien was saying outright that Frodo failed, but really saying coming from a particular angle one could say that he 'failed.' The mercy was due to his compassion to Gollum at the end - even as an "instrument of Providence." One thing I didn't even realize about that letter until about a few weeks ago, was that Tolkien even imagines a Gollum casting himself down for Frodo's sake in an "alternate plotline" or something due to Frodo showing this compassion to Gollum, which is v hard to do! Nevertheless, I think it's just easy to point out that Frodo didn't exactly destroy the ring, especially when looking at it from one angle or as you said a "strict" angle. But it seems that was kind of the point, that he wasn't really meant to willfully destroy it. No one would - and he was meant to find a way to get there and did that.

[@TolkienRoad]

Yeah, it's a bit of hyperbole from Tolkien, but what he does with it I find extremely wise and consoling.

[@ElffriendYT]

@@TolkienRoad of course!

[@havareriksen1004]

A wizard once said "What i said was true....from a certain point of view." :-D

[@chronicsmith1115]

@@havareriksen1004 Old Ben?

[@user-microburst]

The ring was irresistible, it is just that simple. Gollum saved the day

[@Katie-sx5kf]

Frodo was always and only The Ring *Bearer* (emphasis mine). In the larger sense, he succeeded in his task, and fulfilled his destiny. I believe Tolkien's comments only highlighted Frodo's role as The Flawed Hero and pointed towards Sam *Wise*'s role as The Veiled Hero (again, emphasis mine).

[@LCTesla]

It puts in context how hopeless this campaign was. Gandalf must have known the ring was too great a burden even for a Hobbit as pure as Frodo to bear. It really took a miracle to get it to its final destination.

[@TolkienRoad]

That’s why Gandalf called it a “fool’s hope”.

[@KevDaly]

I see the success of Frodo's quest despite his own failure as a classic example of Grace. Frodo's actions while he was able to exercise judgement created the conditions that enabled it to operate. He did the best he could and that was rewarded.

[@KaijuSocial]

Frodo “failing” allows Gollum a sliver of heroism - that, even if it wasn’t his intention, after loosing everything, even himself, in a lifetime extended and spent in absolute devotion to keeping the ring safe, Sméagol certainly deserved.

[@kukochan]

This was beautifully written!

[@TolkienRoad]

Thank you!

[@eutha6]

This can be applied to addicts who fall back-Frodo was in fact an addict and although he wanted to quit for the betterment of all as well as himself, his addiction was too powerful-

[@TolkienRoad]

Great point. Thank you for sharing.

[@tiagomazzon]

Wow that was amazing. Tolkien's wisdom is something else, made me think and reflect about myself and life. Thanks for sharing.

[@TolkienRoad]

At your service!

[@newperve]

Frodo failed because the task was so great. It's not a rightful judgement to say that he was a failure if it was reasonable to expect success. And he's a hero specifically because he took on a task that it was reasonable expect failure. He did better than anyone had a real right to expect, so how is he a failure? He needed fortunate circumstances for the desired result, that's true of anyone who does anything significant.

[@ethanperks372]

My favorite birthday gift is the copy of "Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien" my brother gave me!

[@smartalek180]

That's a good brother. Hope you're as good to him...

[@lesliedycke9795]

It's interesting to contemplate the oath Gollum swore on the Ring. He violated that oath and died. Was that because breaking his oath placed a curse on Gollum. Was there no possibility of forgiveness and mercy for Gollum. Then that would imply limits on such qualities as well wouldn't it?

[@TolkienRoad]

Great point! Viewing Gollum's fate through the lens of oath is something I hope to explore later on, because there are other important oaths in the Middle-earth legendarium.

[@99Kresnik]

Tolkien says the saddest part of the tale is the moment when Gollum was looking upon the sleeping Hobbits and for a brief moment seemed as just a very old one himself, and when Sam awakes and suspects Smeagol and says very harsh things to him, is the very moment where the balance tips and Smeagol loses to Gollum

[@carldunmore7182]

Frodo failed means that even the purest among us are not strong enough to withstand the evil in the world, but nevertheless evil will undo itself - as shown by gollum in his obsession pitching the ring to its destruction

[@TolkienRoad]

“Evil will undo itself” - YES!

[@gabrielna5968]

Thank you for addressing the central point in all the LOTR. I don't think Frodo fails (despite Tolkien"s own words). Frodo consciously begins a journey of self-sacrifice (Sam too, by the way). Even if they still had a tiny hope of coming back alive they were prepared to give their lives and that's what makes them true heros. Moreover, Gandalf had told Frodo that maybe the mercy Bilbo had had spering Gollum's life would be essential ("the pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many"); it turns out both Frodo and Sam have in turn pity on Gollum's life (Frodo in Henneth Annûn; Sam in Mount Doom) and it is that compassion that in the end wins the day thanks to the fall of Gollum, as Gandalf had foreseen. Now, I'd like to point out that Tolkien was a scholar well acquinted with traditional heroic sagas, like Beowulf, Kalevala etc. Those sagas and traditional tales are based on heros that are a) individualistic and b) violent. In LOTR, on the other hand, we have little people who help each other and win through mercy: that is to say that Tolkien turns the traditional heroic paradigm completely on its head, and that's maybe the central meaning of the whole book. That meaning, by the way, was betrayed by a very popular film adaptation..

[@TolkienRoad]

“Tolkien turns the traditional heroic paradigm completely on its head…” - INDEED!

[@gabrielgonzalezrio]

Magnificent depth in his resolution of the conflict. As portrayed by one thoroughly acquainted with ultimate struggle and sacrifice. Utterly moving to glimpse through his depiction, the crushing rigor of existence on the will and soul, desperately carrying the Precious, the greatest desire, power and destruction like Sisyphus up the mountain of doom. To sacrifice it for a higher goal and good. Gandalf's words surely moved Frodo when uttered, and stayed his hand when confronted as Bilbo with the wretched creature. But further on, his compassion sympathy and kindness came from hope for redemption, however desperate. That his own corruption was not irreversible. Such hope gave courage to endure even farther, so not only did Gollum ultimate be the uncanny hero who destroyed the ring, but also was a bulwark for Frodo's will on his way there Thankful that you opened the discussion on such central yet overlooked plot point

[@peterclarke7240]

In fact, Frodo had already failed before he even reached Mount Doom. It was Sam who carried him the rest of the way until they were attacked by Gollum (and that's ignoring Shelob), so what Tolkien was doing was illustrating what an absolutely ridiculous and hopeless task it was for anyone to undertake, least of all a hobbit, while, as you rightly say, subverting the "hero's journey" concept by making Frodo wholly reliant on Sam, and in making the endpoint of the mission occur accidentally, thanks to Smeagol and some loose rocks.

[@AverageCommentor]

@@peterclarke7240. Although, Frodo binding Gollum to an oath that he would then betray led to Eru intervening allowing the Ring's malice to cause Gollum to trip, so in a way, Gollum only tripped because of Frodo.

[@LifeToTheDying]

@@AverageCommentor This is something people tend to miss. Frodo unleashed power of the Ring upon Golum: "and before it stood stern, untouchable now by pity, a figure robed in white [this is Frodo], but at its breast it held a wheel of fire. Out of the fire there spoke a commanding voice. 'Begone, and trouble me no more! If you touch me ever again, you shall be cast yourself into the Fire of Doom.' "

[@Cre8tvMG]

The scale of the burden Frodo resisted is what makes his failure powerful and yet understandable. We might all aspire to be Frodo at our best. None of us can manage to be Sam. He’s the hero.

[@Nu_Wen]

"None of us can manage to be Sam." if you convince yourself of it, it will always be true :)

[@braemtes23]

Frodo was no less a hero than Sam. His whole quest was one of torment. Torment both physical and mental from the ring itself, torment from the Nazgul blade, being skewered by the troll, punctured by Shelob, etc. Sam (other than discomfort of the trip) did not have to suffer as Frodo did. Both Sam and Frodo were heroes, but what Frodo had to endure was far greater than Sam.

[@Cre8tvMG]

@@Nu_Wen Well, part of Same great strength is his great humility, not seeing himself as a hero or a 'great one', but just knowing that he has to do his best. That's where I am too. I'm not convinced I can be that faithful but I'll try my best. Over the years I've seen the people who convince themselves they are unbeatable are a big part of the problem in the first place! 🙂

[@Nu_Wen]

@@Cre8tvMG true, true. people who tend to not respect those they view as under them are really difficult to be around!

[@jeffmuller1489]

The idea that mental and emotional torment can have the same affect as physical injury is powerful. Having been in abusive relationships my whole life, I am healing from the damage and trying to understand that God was with me the whole time, even when I "gave up". He delivered me from abuse by exposing me to wisdom and knowledge about the reality of my situation. All those years, I may as well have been physically beaten, but my torment was not so obvious.

[@TolkienRoad]

Amazing comment, thank you for sharing the wisdom you’ve gleaned from what sounds like immense suffering. All the best to you. ❤️

[@AlexandreOliveira1974]

I have it really clear that Frodo didn't "win" as an individual: he has fallen, and the defeat of Sauron would not happen if it depended only on him despite his absolutely gigantic effort. But, emptied of any vanity (the missing finger would remind him it if anything else failed) Frodo IS victorious in a collective way. Every member of the Fellowship had his own heroic part in the final triumph - by DESIGN in some senses, but undoubtedly being put under proof by freewill, thus not a granted victory. At all. Just like life. No religion in Tolkien's work... but plenty of it, of good clean spiritual perspective - for those who are awake.

[@bookmouse2719]

Frodo and Sam went on and didn't turn back from their duty. Then "divine providence" took over through Gollum. They were both heroes and didn't fail as what matters is they did their part, two morally superior Hobbits.

[@Maxyshadow]

Brilliant summary.

[@Maridun50]

One interesting thing is that the scene where Frodo has reached the crack of Doom and hesitates there, while Sam urges him to throw the Ring into the abyss - is almost identical to the scene 3000 years earlier, when Isildur stood at the same spot, while Elrond urged him to get rid of the ring, and Isildur refused and kept it. Isildur - Elrond Frodo - Sam The difference was Gollum. Isildur - the mighty and powerful king refused Elrond's advise to throw the Ring into the crack of Doom. Elrond - who was also a mighty and powerful ruler,. 3000 years later two small and humble hobbits repeat the scene - and fail as well. Gollum - whom Frodo had shown mercy and compassion - robbed Frodo of the Ring, he had desired for many many years. And he paid with his life and thus destroyed the Ring. Wasn't Isildur humble enough? Perhaps not. But you might say - it wasn't fully known then what the one Ring really was. And had Isildur thrown it in the abyss - that would already then have destroyed the powers of the 3 Elven rings and the Elven societies would all have been long gone by the time Frodo and Sam lived.

[@critter5248]

These are movie scenes, or book events?

[@Maridun50]

@@critter5248 both.

[@DarrenEden-ub4vj]

Lord of the rings is one of the few stories I have read multiple times. Even though Frodo failed at mount Doom. He did so much when he got home and helped rebuild the shire.

[@barriolimbas]

No ring bearer ever resists to the end. They are only the more resilient.

[@timnordin6230]

The nuances are what makes the work both so popular and difficult to understand. Compare Faramir's handling of the ring in the book to that in the movie. I'm the book he outright rejects it's lure and thus stays pure. In the movie he is drawn in and then later rejects it by the force of his own will. But his own will was already corrupt. This makes mockery of his brother's sacrifice, who only found release in death. As does Frodo, only it is the death of the ring itself delivering his release. Thank you for your exploration of this topic.

[@TolkienRoad]

You are spot on, it’s the nuance of Middle-earth that makes it such an immense treasure. Many read and love Tolkien, but few seem to get this.

[@jeanannd]

It was because Frodo gave mercy to Gollum, that in the end, Gollum finishes what Frodo could not. If he had not shown mercy, then Frodo would have been corrupted by the ring, and the ring would not have been destroyed.

[@michellerhodes9910]

The meaning is clear that - at that moment - the power of the ring before the fires of its birth was paramount. The scheme, however, succeeded because of others, their failings and their virtues. But that he tried and gave everything doing so, is a great moment in literature, and that it was a trial few could face, let alone succeed in. Good discussion, thank you.

[@stevenwilson5556]

There's a passage a bit before Frodo goes into Mouth Doom where Frodo (or maybe the Ring itself) curses Golum where if Golum acts against Frodo, Golum will be cast into the pits of fire. So in some sense the Ring destroyed itself, because after stealing the ring violently from Frodo, Golum was indeed cast into the pits of fire. So in that sense, Frodo did destroy the ring by getting it to the point where Golum taking it would doom the Ring to fall into the fire along with Golum

[@anarchorepublican5954]

...🧙‍♂✨All have sinned, and fallen short of the Glory of Eru," Ilúvatar"... however blessed are the merciful, for it is they, who shalt obtain Mercy...

[@modolief]

Thank you!! Very thoughtful and well articulated recounting of Tolkien's thoughts on this matter.

[@dustind4694]

I've always taken this with a bit of Bruce Lee: it is not failure, but low aim, that is the crime. In great attempts, it is glorious even to fail. And I don't mean great as in 'mighty' or 'powerful' I mean great as in 'worth doing'. Frodo did something incredible by even accepting the quest to begin with. He did the impossible by making it so close to such a difficult and distant goal. He stood taller than the Men of Gondor in mercy and dignity before the unfortunate Gollum and Saruman the once-wise, and took the aid of Sam, a man that even in Shire society's limited classes was 'lowly', only with protest, not because he didn't trust or care for Sam, but because he didn't want to put his burden on a friend. All of the Hobbits in the Fellowship evince a kind of gentleness and earnest goodwill that is infinitely more valuable than some notion of invincible, unbreakable nobility.

[@dustind4694]

To Tolkien, this had much to do with his faith. To this secular reader, it speaks to the necessity of perspective and the understanding that one person is only one person.

[@wildboar2598]

Agreed on all counts. I would love to get your opinion on the possibility that in the final moment the last remaining embers of Sméagol rose up to literally tip the balance against Gollum and the ring. That would make Sméagol the redeemed hero.

[@chiraldude]

Another possible ending would be for Sam to have intervened in Golem's attack of Frodo. He could have wrestled the ring away from Golem and, with a great burst of will power, thrown it into the volcano. Golem would have charged Sam in one last fit of rage which would have been deflected, resulting in Golem falling over the edge. I suppose Tolkien did not choose this because he wanted the ending to be ultimately out of the hands of mortal beings.

[@yorktown99]

I remember in the late 1990s, the Tolkien Estate website was rather pathetic. At the time it was little more than a landing page for business inquiries (though what there could have been, I imagine, even then was paltry). I'm glad to finally see the family engaging with the billions of people that have fallen in love with these writings.

[@growsomeplace9987]

As we see in the fellowship of the ring, this effort had a team and team Frodo, still prevails.

[@avalonmentorsliterature5575]

Question: Do you think Smeagol was, in the end, saved?

[@TolkienRoad]

I believe in the unfathomable mercy of Ilúvatar...so YES, I do. What do you think?

[@AbecedariusRex]

Ihave a friend who suggests that Frodo doesn’t save Middle Earth, Smeagol does. I do believe increasingly in Smeagol’s salvation as an example of, as you said, Illuvatar’s numinous mercy.

[@ravenlegal4551]

It makes me remember in the Fellowship where Gandolf states that Gollum has a purpose and part in the story. It was yet to be known at that time. It shows God's hand in the story. He works in mysterious ways and through unlikely characters. Frodo and Same would never had made it Mt Doom without him.

[@MarcosRuiz1979]

The way I see it, is that Gandalf could see that the evil in the ring was going to be its own doom. Because it relied on mortals to do its deeds. So Gollum still had a part to play because of that influence. At the end it is Gollum who destroys the ring, thus playing his part into acheiving what good could not.

[@l.sophia2803]

@@MarcosRuiz1979 great points

[@ravenlegal4551]

@@MarcosRuiz1979 In that scene, Frodo had stated Bilbo should have killed Gollum. Pity for Gollum is what had stayed Bilbo's hand. I think that scene did teach a major life lesson. We do not the future and we cannot control what we do not know. Judging another and extracting revenge should not be taken lightly. We do not have all of the facts. Trust in a high power is what Gandolf was stating. We do not control anything. It is God's job to judge not ours. The Lord of the Rings has huge Christian themes.

[@lestergreelack3131]

Do not put your imagined friend god to Tolkien's universe.

[@l.sophia2803]

@@lestergreelack3131 Tolkien was a proud avowed Catholic and Christian as we’re all the Inklings. and this is applied Catholic cosmology. Hate to break it to you if you’re a fan and atheist.. could be a conflict there. ☮️

[@Jaasau]

“Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.”

[@rustyhowe3907]

Tbh I don't think anyone could've truly succeeded against the will of Mordor by themselves, it was such a monumental task of overcoming that everyone needed to be in their place to support everyone to do anything. Even the big heavy weight heroes of the story felt its temptation and they didn't even carry the ring. Only Tom Bombadil and Sam were the only ones not swayed by its influence.

[@Yverian]

I always thought that Frodo's real test was before he and Sam left the Fellowship and crossed the river, setting out towards Mordor on their own. Getting the ring to Mordor was a stealth op, not a commando raid. Frodo sat on that high seat just before Boromir tried to take the ring and made up in his mind to go it alone. It was a good thing Sam wouldn't let him. That Frodo gave in at the last moment after not only the ring's torment but being wounded by a Morgul Blade and being stung by Shelob is little wonder. Gollum played his part there, just as Gandalf's instincts had told him he would. The task was accomplished, the Dark Lord was forever fallen, and Frodo was headed toward his final rest, and permanent peace. I wonder if in the West, beyond the end, what his peace was like and how much his pain and suffering could have been soothed? Gandalf said something to the effect that Frodo might in the end become a pale light for those with eyes to see, who can. I sincerely hope that doesn't mean he spent eternity lonely and alone and without a friend to comfort him and I hope that he sought comfort from his friends, no matter what he became in the end. "Those with eyes to see who can". I believe Sam and Gandalf were among those.

[@NathanP711]

When Gandalf said he would become a pale light we was referring to him eventually moving into the spirit realm, but he would be a light, not a shadow.

[@thehellyousay]

Samwise sailed to the uttermost west, too. He too, was a ring bearer, after all. Frodo and Bilbo were never alone there, either.

[@cha5]

“There is one more chapter to be written.” I know some people don’t like P Jackson’s LOTR movies, but I always thought that moment between Frodo and Sam when Frodo is leaving for the Undying Lands and leaving the tale of their epic odyssey for Sam to finish was beautiful.

[@Kintizen]

I think people always dismiss Tolkien's theological mind. Two things to be taken in consideration. First He constantly uses and emphasize that at a point All Man fails, give into their desires, thats tied into his Biblical view. Second comes from Biblical idea that "Persons desire to do evil/sin," becomes his own self destruction. Frodo fails at the end because he give into the desire of the Ring. Gollum/Frodo are not diffirent from each other. Only difference is that Gollum gave into the Ring from the start, and Frodo, when it matters the most. It's supposed to be tragic, not heroic. Also the deepest meaning of Tolkien is trying to show, Heroric intentions and actions. Won't save anything, unless one is steadfast. On top of it all, what saved the Middle Earth is Frodo's mercy towards Gollum. Biblical idea of "Love your Enemy."

[@TolkienRoad]

Great comment, thank you!

[@Maxyshadow]

Love this vid thanks. Also feel I needed to hear this and take it on.

[@toddkurzbard]

It's an interesting take. And one backed up by the fact that Isildur also stood in that same place long before, and the exact same thing, an inability to destroy it and an irresistible desire to possess it overcame both of them. Isildur walked into that same place inside Mt. Doom, only to be overcome just as Frodo later would be, despite their both walking in with the same intent, to destroy it.

[@franciscordon9230]

So interesting, thank you! Amazing background with the Guitars and Middle Earth Map, too!

[@TolkienRoad]

Glad you enjoyed it! 🙌

[@scottys1423]

Keep in mind that both Gandolph and Galadriel knew better than to offer to be the ring bearer.

[@claesvanoldenphatt9972]

Tolkien was an actual Christian. Read Leaf By Niggle. There is nothing mean or cheap in anything he wrote, nor anything proud and selfish.

[@thehellyousay]

Roverandom was a beautiful story, too.

[@claesvanoldenphatt9972]

@@thehellyousay I wish more people were like him these days. The world needs good artists who are based, not hateful.

[@cvmcmanus3763]

I am really glad to hear these words you read from Tolkien's letter. It is parallel with my own impressions every time I have read LOTR. If I may, I would like to say that Frodo's wound from the morgul knife on Weather Top had to have had an impact on his failure. The wound had to have compounded the effects of all his other privations in the story weakening his will to endure to the end. Gandalf always said Gollum might have some important part to play in the events that occurred. And he did. I find this to be a profound act of justice and Mercy rolled into one that Gollum perished with the ring and Frodo lost his finger, shedding his own blood as an atonement for his failure. Thank you for your well done and interesting commentaries on LOTR. 😊

[@TolkienRoad]

At your service - and thank you for your insightful comment!

[@amishpuritan9770]

Very thought provoking. Thank you.

[@nahuelcutrera]

he could understand gollum as he was a ring bearer himself, he had mercy on him and that ultimately save middle-earth, he got the fact that gollum was a victim of the many years of ring influence, while nobody else could see it. The other end I could have seen for the ring was frodo commiting suicide to destroy the ring or even sam pushing him into the abyss but tolkien got the best ending I think.

[@TolkienRoad]

Interesting thought, but I think Frodo committing suicide or Sam aiding him would have been TOO dark, and harmed what makes those characters beloved. Your point about Gollum is spot on though.

[@KarlElvis]

That is an extremely positive message. Thx.

[@TolkienRoad]

At your service! 🙌

[@dand3953]

Ultimately, it was Frodo's Tolkien-karma that determined The Ring's final fate. By getting the ring to the precipice of Mount Doom's volcanic furnace, Frodo was indeed more powerful in character than all other Middle-Earth leaders. Furthermore, Frodo could not have achieved his victory without Sam. Sam was the most important lynch-pin. The final puzzle-piece to plop into place was Smeagol, whose almost invisible victory-dance of successful theft ultimately led to him falling (with Frodo's help) to his -- and The Ring's -- death. Both Frodo and Gollum (and even Bilbo) were, individually, hopeless addicts of The One Ring's overwhelming power. Fortunately, it was that final contest for possession that undid The Ring's own obsessive will to survive. Bilbo was able to contain his addiction before the Ring-Quest commenced and surrendered possession (as The Ring itself deemed fortunate). Frodo and Gollum carried it to the very edge of annihilation. The Devine Providence of Middle Earth's creator inevitably won out. Even so, Sauron never died.

[@AugustoCuervo-hx9pr]

Frodo touched and sensed the power of the Ring, he was even witness of a dwarf gone into madness, just like him. In a sense, knowing the suffering of those around, he failed. Empathy is feeling the failure from others in order to continue with your personal, individual path.

[@Spark_Chaser]

Frodo reminds me of the soldier trying to destroy an emplaced position with a grenade, getting cut down close to it, but the grenade still falling into the emplacement, destroying it. We'll herald the soldier as, but in the end, he did fall.

[@jasminerochas-oq8jw]

Deeply beautiful. Thank You ❤️

[@rexrobertson2219]

there is a small section in the dead marshes that took me years to get, when frodo bound gollum to the ring with an oath that if gollum attempted to take the ring from frodo by force, gollum would himself be ast into the fires of orodruin. the saving grace that accomished all.

[@ladykoiwolfe]

You could see Frodo was becoming obsessed with the Ring and could not complete the quest. But the pity of Bilbo and the mercy of Frodo brought about the success of the quest as he fought with the other ring-bearer. Gollum completed it for him. Sam made sure he got there. I do think Frodo could have carried it further with less corruption had he not be stuck by the Morgul blade. Bilbo carried it for years. Frodo carried it for months. I still find Sam the best of the Ring-bearers, even if it was only for a short time. All he wanted was his garden and he knew what to go to get back there.

[@Billy-Mandalay]

I had always thought that the true "lord" of the ring was Sam... someone who wasn't tempted by it.

[@johnjames6980]

Loved Sam, he was my favorite.

[@blackbird365]

What an absolutely wonderful, inspiring, deeply thoughtful presentation! You have re-ignited a deep longing for my long-lost 'religion' in me. The simplicity, humility & sincerity of this has been what I have long missed in churches, with all their noisy, raucous trendiness & superficial, often hate-fuelled bluster. When at 5 min you talk of our minds & wills being 'capable of' being crushed etc, don't you perhaps mean 'susceptible to' ... ie passively subject to, rather than this vulnerability being an active power? In Catholic theology, as I remember being taught long ago, we have 'actions' & 'passions' (& can sin and make reparation with both 'satisfaction' & 'satispassion'). Being subject to or vulnerable to something happening TO us is not the same as our being capable of actually doing something deliberately, by our own will. But I doubt if anyone thinks this way any more ... I cannot find any church people who discuss or understand these things which used to be so very important to me, decades ago, when I tried & failed to practise a spiritual life alone. I gave up. But this little video gives me Hope. Thank you. 🙏

[@TolkienRoad]

Thank you for the kind and thoughtful comment! I wonder if "trying to practice the spiritual life alone" is a key mistake that leads many to lose faith. Jesus sent the disciples out in groups, after all, and we know that from the beginning "it is not good for man to be alone." The reference to minds & wills being crushed has to do with the quote from Tolkien's letter regarding Frodo. Temptations are forms of demonic pressure. I think "being crushed" vs. "susceptible to" is a matter of semantics - one is a figurative way of looking at it, the other is more psychologically stated. I too despise the things you mention about many modern churches - but there are certainly others out there that are truly holy temples, spaces of quiet and prayer. We are blessed to attend such a parish where we live, and they certainly exist in many locations, if you take the time to look. Best to you!

[@blackbird365]

@@TolkienRoad Thanks. But I have made no such 'mistake'. I don't know anyone among all my friends & acquaintances who believes in God or seeks anything spiritually profound or philosophically meaningful. I have attended many churches of different denominations in the 4 cities I've lived in, over decades. But have always been deeply disappointed by discovering that in one town, the church was chiefly a gay networking service (high Anglican & Anglo-Catholic vicars were all gay, which is fine, but doesn't help or include me, a straight older woman, excluded.) I promise I have searched & searched for genuine Christian fellowship, especially in the Roman Catholic Church, into which I was received after failing to find what I longed for in the otherwise marvellous Methodist churches of my childhood & youth. But everyone, esp the clergy, are busily involved in good social work, coffee mornings, tea parties, fetes, home visits for nice dinners etc - which is all really lovely & beautiful, social bonding, warmth & even love. But I must be weird - or differently wired - because I seek MORE actual religion. I've never fitted in beyond very superficially with spending too much time involved with light, small-talking groups (though I'm very good at it & do it lots, out of care & concern for people + giving & receiving enjoyment in small doses.) Yet I've never found anyone or any group actually religious! Anyone who actually believes in, considers, meditates on, wonders about, is willing to discuss or struggles with profound things ... the Big Questions ... understanding different viewpoints ... learning about broader & deeper aspects of our souls' travails in this world without defaulting to the trendy, godless 'psych'-speak of this materialist, secular, anti-religion age. My partner & friends are atheists / agnostics at best, who are vehemently averse to thinking & feeling. So my inner spiritual & emotional loneliness is intense & life-destroying. That's why I really love Tolkien! His work is imbued with religion, morality, the supernal. A lifeline for me. I'd love to attend churches again, but after several recent forays into pop-band, informal, jolly get-togethers in several 'churches' where wars etc are happily advocated & biblical stories taken literally as a licence to kill, invade, judge others etc, I come away in great distress, feeling even more isolated from the possibility of ANY spiritual community. In exile. Even old-fashioned, traditional churches preach about fighting & wars & are just pompous rituals showcasing ceremony with no underlying beliefs or sincere self-expansion. My questions & attempts are always laughed off jovially at best; excluded with horror at worst. They do what they do; it's all on the surface. Most modern vicars / ministers / priests here in the UK, according to an anonymous poll, no longer believe in God 'as such'. Therein lies my issue. At least discuss it? No. Too much. Just let's get on with socialising. 😞 I HAVE 'taken time to look'. 4 decades. In atheistic England, there simply aren't any 'truly holy temples, spaces of quiet and prayer.' 😟

[@markteague8889]

It's an embodiment of Lord Acton's Axiom about power embedded within the story. "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely!"

[@markteague8889]

The fact that Frodo (one of the most naïve and innocent of creatures in all of Middle Earth) couldn't resist the temptation serves to reinforce that Acton's observation is axiomatic.

[@g.mantua1195]

In essence, Sam was the ring bearer. He didn't carry the ring, with the exception of one time, but he did carry Frodo. When I reflect on the story, I can't help but think that it was Sam's strength that bore the ring to mount doom. He was Frodo's strength. A true friend to the end.

[@TheLookingGlassAU]

Of course Frodo failed, the ring destroyed itself. Evil can only steal, kill and destroy. All evil, given enough time, will always destroy itself. The ring being evil, destroyed itself.

[@bumbleguppy]

Thinking about this, I had a funny thought that made me chuckle. Imagine Gandalf and Frodo at Bag End and I'm there too, think of a sitcom, and I say "Let me see that ring..." and immediately I bolt up and shout "I WILL RULE THIS WORLD! MWA HA HA!" and Gandalf remarks "Hmph...record time." Even Isuldur would have resisted better than me I think :)

[@JL-nb1yc]

I love your perspective on this. I first read LOTR as an atheist. I became a Christian in my 30s, truly around 2008. The more time goes by, the more I see Christianity embedded in LOTR. I am always getting a deeper appreciation for Tolkien as time goes by.

[@randyl5205]

I guess the main failure would be that Frodo was not able to give up the ring and cast it into the fire when he made it to the Cracks of Doom. The other possible failure might be to remain uncorrupted by the Ring, which is sort of the same matter, but here I am thinking about his need to leave ME to heal from what was done to him by the Ring.

[@badbiker666]

I would argue that Frodo did not fail. I would argue this point with Tolkien, himself, if I could. True, at the last second he could not destroy the Ring. But all through the story, Frodo is portrayed as a fallible being. He wasn't some kind of super being, able to withstand the power of the Ring. Its influence was at its greatest there, in Mt. Doom, the place of its creation. No ordinary being could have withstood those dark voices. Certainly no man, be he peasant or King, could have. That Frodo's will failed literally at the last second is a testament to his tenacity. And the Ring was, ultimately, destroyed and Middle Earth saved from Sauron's tyranny, which was the goal of the entire campaign. I would also argue that Boromir's actions did not constitute a failure. Yes, he attempted to take possession of the Ring himself. That shows NOT how weak he was, but how powerful was the influence of the Ring. Boromir was no ordinary man, being a Prince and a war leader. And yet, even his will wasn't enough to shield him from its power. Not even Isildur, who was by all accounts an extraordinary man, was able to withstand it. Boromir recognized his failure at last, fought the orcs and Uruk-hai, sacrificing himself to give Frodo and Sam time to make an escape. For this, I believe the dark mark of his failure is wiped clean, redeeming him in the eyes of the history of Middle Earth. In other words, failure is not such a black-and-white, all-or-nothing, question. There are shades of meaning to the discussion, one I enjoy having with folks and have enjoyed for almost 50 years, since I first read the books.

[@ethanperks372]

I think of Frodo as an addict, hooked on the power of the ring. Anyone who has overcome an addiction will understand!

[@smartalek180]

Yes, no question at all -- I came to this realization long ago, many reads back, and am convinced you are correct. It is the most PERFECT literary representation of the whole love/hate/control paradigm I've yet read, & that's including many memoirs of addiction (or alcoholism) & recovery. Which necessarily raises the question... How did Tolkien know?

[@straypacket]

​@@smartalek180Tolkien probably knew someone who battled with alcoholism or opium addiction. After The First World War, I'm sure there was no shortage of damaged people looking for an escape mechanism.

[@oatnoid]

Pity and mercy good points, but a person should be worthy of it. Hunger thirst and fatigue make failures out of everyone. Nobody can hold out indefinitely.

[@penichandler3585]

I always felt Sam was the hero of the story.

[@captainhotrod7948]

It was necessary to Eru's plan for Frodo to fail. But that failire was not the plan. The plan was for Frodo to enact love and fellowship to the utmost. When he reached the most he could do then he cracked and could go no farther. It was this expression of utmost love and fellowship that was necessary.

[@TolkienRoad]

INDEED