Do You Need FRFR For Your Modeler? [Here's why I stopped using FRFR]

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I often see the conventional wisdom that FRFR is the way to go....I actually have turned back to other methods - here's why I think FRFR is an option, but not the ONLY option.
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only if you wanted, you could buy me a coffee!

[@Jason-Taylor]

When I first tried the FRFR route, I bought an Atomic CLR which I just never got along with and didn’t sit well in my band with another guitar player using a real amp and 4x12 cab. I ended up going back to an amp and cab myself and was much happier with the sound but eventually got tired of hauling them to shows. Recently I decided to go with a Fractal FM9 into a Seymour Duncan Powerstage 200 and into a smaller Mesa 2x12 cab. I couldn’t be happier! The tone and feel are still there but even cleaner and I also eliminated hauling my 100 watt head and 4x12 around. My other guitar player liked what I had so much that he ended up going a very similar direction and we both have been loving our sound and the convenience it’s brought. Thanks for the video!!

[@siddwitmusic477]

Currently looking into this!

[@heartpath1]

In my experience, and I’ve been doing this for 30+ years, it all comes down to how you’re monitoring yourself. If I’m playing live in a small venue with limited monitoring I always use an amp with pedals. If using in-ears live I use a modeler and no cabinet. If studio I use whatever sounds proper for the recording but these days I can dial up a Kemper or Fractal or NI Guitar Rig faster than miking an amp. Most modern productions aren’t begging for real amps and would rather move quickly with maximum versatility. TLDR: if you’re playing live without monitoring use an amp, otherwise take advantage of digital gear.

[@MarshallDerrickBand]

Why don’t you use modeling live? Is it because of the monitoring situation? That’s my issue right now. I like how it sounds FOH but can’t comfortable with monitoring situation. I like IEM’s but if the the rest of the band is not using IEM’s they want something on stage to hear the guitar.

[@swardmusic]

This.

[@EdPettersen]

Here's a semi blasphemous statement: Sometimes I just use my HX Stomp as a pedal platform into a small tube amp when gigging in London (can't bring a large amp on the tube after all) OR sometimes if I'm using amps and cabs in my HX Stomp I use the cleanest, flattest little tube amp I have and make sure no gain is really coming from the amp. Depends on the gig. Believe me, nobody knows or is going to turn you in to the modeling police. Whatever works. Stop spending money. It won't make you better.

[@kalli199]

This sounds interesting to me. So how do you use it as a pedal platform with a tube amp? Do you use the stomp as a head?

[@EdPettersen]

@@kalli199 I just use it like a pedal board. Compressor, drives, modulation, delay, reverb...etc.

[@emilgruca]

It actually makes sense. 🙂

[@TheRflynn]

Why bother with a tube amp, wouldn’t solid state be lighter for lugging around?

[@EdPettersen]

@@TheRflynn Sure, if you have one handy.

[@luciverofficial4061]

Played tube amps for 35years, then switched over to Fractal due to back surgery. The thing is that tube amps sound good on stage, but for most gigs they have to be miked and you will have to rely on the sound guy to reproduce your sound to the audience. There is a big chance that it won't sound exactly as you like, due to the fact that the sound guy doesn't have your ears :) There is also a lot of room for f..ups (mic placement, eq) With a modeller you give the soundguy 1 or two signals (stereo or mono) with the advice to set everything flat on the mixing board. If you did agood job creating your sounds, it will sound good with no adjustments needed and more importantly, very consistent across other venues as well. A modeller will give the sound guy exactly what he is trying to achieve,...a miked up sound. You can play with inears or let the sound guy provide you with 2 monitors for a stereo sound on stage. Basicly you can go to the gig with 1 or 2 guitars and your modeller of choice, setup in. 5 minutes. Most of us bring expensive gear to gigs to impress other guitar players that maybe in the audience. Well....those guitars players in the audience have to shut up, because you have work and they don't :) The "normal" people in the audience sure has hell don't give a rat's ass what equipement you are using. You are there to entertain!

[@samueldiker]

My thoughts on this: The sound guy doesn’t have your ears, but I think he needs more trebles than you, because they disappear with the distance. At 15/20m it is not the same mix and without trebles it becomes dull. So I often use earplugs if my floor monitor has the same mix than the front speakers (I like to hear everything).

[@YonkyKADAVER]

I am one of those "sound guys", and as sound technicians, our job is to equalize all the instruments and voices, and it doesn't matter how well you have configured your guitar sound, it will not sound good if the technician does not fit it into the overall mix, which in turn depends on many factors such as the environment and the acoustics of the room or the place where the concert is.

[@danielhornbeck6588]

Scott Henderson handles his soundchecks by recording into a loop pedal with the band. Then he can walk around the venue, see what it sounds like at the mixer, make suggestions, etc.

[@YonkyKADAVER]

@@danielhornbeck6588 The same equalization and setup of a band playing in one place does not work in another place, that is why the "sound guys" are necessary if it would not be enough to do the sound check once and copy it for the rest of the concerts on the tour, but that It doesn't work like that, you always have to adapt the template or guide that is generated for the same band, because the acoustics influence it, the P.A. system. mounted influences, etc. No matter how good your guitar sounds to someone, in order for it to fit into the mix it will have to be processed depending on many parameters that change from one gig to another.

[@danielhornbeck6588]

@@YonkyKADAVER yeah that's what I'm saying. Scott has a good means to that end.

[@MajorUpgrade]

First off, thank you John for doing this video! Your content is always inspiring, and honest. I've not used FRFR yet... but I have some options... I have lots of little practice amps and the pod go. I also have a Focusrite SOLO interface and Bias FX2 coming out of Presonus Studio monitors. Since I just play at home, presently I've been playing around with going Guitar>Pod Go>Positive Grid Spark>effects loop of my orange 35RT. I'm on KZbin all the time and I'm always hearing this is best, or that is best...but honestly, it's a large experiment for me, and that is the fun of it. Nobody should be able to tell you or me or anybody what is best, I think. IMO use what you've got. Stop buying equipment to buy equipment, or just because some KZbinr tells you to do it. Get what you need and use what you've got. Learning to use what you've got takes time, and I'll bet there are already good tones to be had with the gear you already have! You just have to dial in your sound a little from what bits and pieces of what you have cobbled together over the years. TRY things. It's not going to hurt to swap it around, and just SEE what it sounds like. Don't just take everyone's word that "this is the best"... Also, don't forget that with things like an interface and Bias FX 2 / and free amp sims, you can get pretty far without having to shell out a ton of money for actual hardware. If you have a decent PC, you can get a pretty nice home rig! Try stuff. Remember, people like Eddie Van Halen and the Edge from U2 just basically experiment until they come up with something good! Play guitar and have fun experimenting with different things!

[@steveclark9934]

I totally agree try things especially things you wouldn't normally expect back in 2001 I was without much money but I had a cheap guitar and a couple of old 70's or 80's home stereo pioneer amplifiers with quarter-inch microphone and headphone Jack I decided from the lack of equipment and strong will to play guitar I ran one of the stereos distorted into the other and had a very decent sound that I could play with it just worked.

[@jwn333]

The key thing with the FRFR approach is that impulse responses don't simulate the sound of a speaker, they simulate the sound of a microphone in front of a speaker. Running this 'mic'd' sound through another speaker is more like listening through a wedge monitor, which is a very different experience to listening to the sound of a real guitar speaker cab in the same space.

[@zipporaid]

I really wish helix had "no mic" as a selection. This is the problem I've always had trying to play in a room with other folks through a frfr. Seems like a no brainer?

[@fredepstein]

@@zipporaidwith a powercab you can have that. From Helix amp you send straight to powercab. Powercab has speaker models without mics.

[@ryanpjolley]

@@zipporaid Completely agree! The only problem is....how would they capture the sound without using a mic? But, that begs the question: how did they come up with the speaker simulations for the Powercab+? There's gotta be a way for them to do this.

[@zipporaid]

@@ryanpjolley I believe folks have made IRs in anechoic settings with reference mics, maybe a flat mic option like an earthworks type would be the easiest solution

[@theweazel]

@@zipporaid They do. And I know this because I had the same wish as you! I play out of 12" guitar combo amps, using the FX loop, and QSC10's. On both of those I don't use a cab or IR block. I just use an EQ block - which is exactly what an IR is. On a guitar amp you usually don't have to use much EQ, only tune to taste. On my QSC's I'll start with a HPF around 70/80hz and a LPF around 4500ish. And I'll usually boost around the 2k-4k range. But you can do whatever you want! I started to love digital modeling after I learned about this.

[@stevedrake360]

Don't forget, most modelers, if not all of them, are equipped with EQ blocks. You can also add an EQ to your rig. An EQ is a way of controlling any unwanted frequencies coming through your FRFR. Personally, I like the full range of an FRFR because there are certain presets that wouldn't sound nearly as full without it.

[@justinTime077]

It doesn’t give you the warm organic orgasm that only tubes provide to this day. You’ve been brainwashed to forget my child. Let me bring you back to the light. Don’t forget the light of analog, that which feels, and touches your tone with warm embrace. ❤

[@brianschmid6993]

use filter .then set low and high pass to 5k .

[@KorkMoyer]

Not sure if anyone mentioned this, but the Tech 21 Power Engine 60 is just an un-colored power amp and guitar speaker cab. They work wonderfully.

[@GlennMichaelThompson]

Too bad they're not in production anymore. :0/

[@LuisM_Piozza]

I had a awful experience with the Powe Engine 60. Very disappointing... 😢

[@KorkMoyer]

@@LuisM_Piozza what happened?

[@HaarmodeQuinkertz]

I use the Quad Cortex with a Headrush 108 . At the start i hated the Sound but now it works perfectly for me. The Gamechanger for me is using the Eq (High and Low Pass ) and a little Monitorstand to keep the Speaker a few centimeter away from the ground. I am really happy with the result.

[@phil3178]

I use since one month an everse8 as Personnal monitor for my Kemper /Helix config and I think I will buy another one because of its Quality and versatility ! And I will be able to use them in a stereo context or as FOH in small gigs. With my Bose L1 model 2 they are really complementary… and for instance when I use playbacks I like to send drums in this everse8 some meters away from me to wider the sound landscape of my playbacks… well I like this versatility… and I can use too my Fender HotRod with Celestion Alnico cream in the monitor out of the Kemper (without cab sim) when I want to feel something really more “organic” musically Philippe

[@frantisca]

Liked your live performance a lot ! FRFR: I agree with you. I ended up with the BluGuitar Amp 1 and its NanoCab. It's a suitable solution for traveling light and still loud (60W - up to 100 with my other cab loaded with an Alnico Cream) and 4 voices: Fendery clean, Voxy crunch, JCM 800 (very realistic) and Mesa Boogish modern tones. Plus on board reverb and boost: you just bring along a minimal pedalboard and off you go ! Cheers John.

[@tonystartup3817]

The amp 1 and some form of ported cab is a good option. Small, light and powerful

[@billk5864]

I agree John. My first purchase after the Quad Cortex was the Atomic wedge FRFR. I thought it sounded ok until one day I plugged into just a powered PA top. I realized the atomic wedge was very nasally sounding to my ears and I sold it immediately. I now just use a Yamaha 10” powered pa top for live use and it sounds fine for on stage sound to me.

[@johnmccarthy9445]

John, thanks so much for this video. Judging by the number of comments, this seems like something a lot of people are interested in. I hope you can explore this subject some more in future videos as there is not a lot of info out there other than product demos. I have been looking for a portable solution to listen to my HX Stomp and Quad Cortex. Currently is use a pair of Focal studio monitors - which sound great AND produce a great stereo sound - but I don't want to move them off my desk. Your suggestion to "try what you have" first is an excellent one, especially if you are on a budget. The FRFR rabbit hole looks like it could be like a particularly large and expensive one. All of this to say, I am going to try a Henriksen Bud. If I really like it, I might get a second one - as opposed to a speaker extension cab - to go for stereo. Quad Cortex Out Left to one and QC Out Right to the other. Someone should make a solid state amp with a stereo power set up and a line out to a speaker cab. That way you could set up the amps for optimal stereo effect. This would be opposed to something like a Line6 PowerCab 212 or a Mission Gemini 2 - both of which are stereo cabs with fixed speakers. Thank you, John, your content is really, really great!

[@3mstudiospalmdesert]

It seems to me that if you are home dialing in tones through your monitors and in-ears that the purpose is on the way to being defeated by introducing another amp and cabinet. Personally, once I've captured and balanced the tones and set the effects, all I want to do from there is scale up to performance volumes. The last thing I want to do is add more variables. I just use whatever PA tops like a QSC K8 or a pair if I feel like stereo. Then the house sounds more or less the same, my stage sounds more or less the same, and my in-ears sound more or less the same, as what I dialed in at my studio. Why mess with that more than you need to? If it's for eq you could just have the Global eq up and fix it from the unit. No extra cartage and fast breakdown. You may even have enough extra time to buy your girl a drink. What a concept.

[@kyran4238]

Yeah, I agree. However, I think people want reinforcement from behind them like an amp. In that case a cheap SS guitar amp is good.

[@3mstudiospalmdesert]

@@kyran4238 Why can't you put a monitor behind you? They even lie at the right angle to hear it without raising it up or tilting it back.

[@kyran4238]

@@3mstudiospalmdesert kinda defeats the purpose of FRFR as won’t be hearing “flat response” through the back of your head. It is also the worst of both worlds because the modeling benefits of low stage volume and matching FOH and stage tone are negated, and you don’t experience the thrill and nostalgia of having a cranked tube amp on stage.

[@3mstudiospalmdesert]

@@kyran4238 , you can also place them in front if you want. Like monitors or in ear. I have an incredible amp collection, and I can tell you honestly that I don't miss them with the Quad Cortex, where I put all my amps accurately into. It's at that point now. I can't deny it. Tube amps are no longer better.

[@kyran4238]

@@3mstudiospalmdesert I don’t disagree, I just don’t see a practical reason for placing it behind unless there is no FOH or it needs reinforcement from an on stage source.

[@johntruman6571]

Thanks John. I'm really enjoying using my Pod Go with Cab / IRs on into the Power Amp In of my Katana 100 MK ii. The reason this works is that I have fitted a Celestion FRLR (Full Range Live Response) Triple Cone 150w speaker (purposefully designed for guitar modellers) to the Kat. The perfect combination for me.

[@vkgraphics]

I use a Headrush 108 with my Helix and find that Global EQ in Helix is an easy and great way of fine tuning my live sound. I found that cutting the top end to around 4.1K takes that top end sharpness/hiss away and makes it more " real " sounding. The bottom end is really down to the room or band sound so I'll cut that to suit.

[@randyclere7756]

Im using two Headrush 12’s & Helix for my Chapman Stick rig. They carry the bass side of the stick really well. Love them

[@JM-eq3sx]

I'm using a pair of HR108s. For the price, they are amazing. You do need to trim back the lows and highs but that's a piece of cake with any modeler.

[@vkgraphics]

@@JM-eq3sx yip, that’s where global eq in helix is very handy imo. 🤘😉

[@druidhugger6311]

@@JM-eq3sx This is what I dont understand . You get two frfr and then end up trimming the frequencies to emulate a real guitar amp. So , why bother and use a guitar amp designed for the purpose. For the price of two , even cheap HR frfr's you could get a really good guitar amp . Yeah ok it is personal choice but I feel this frfr stuff is just a complete con some people are buying into.

[@JM-eq3sx]

@@druidhugger6311 Because a real guitar amp is just one amp. I do have several real guitar amps of different sizes and types. I don't want to carry them all to a gig, as if I could. As great as real amps are, I like the flexibility of a modeler for the gigs I do, which cover a wide range of musical styles. There are some guitarists who have one sound (maybe 2 or 3) all night, and some of them can make it work. I want maximum versatility. I want to feel a Marshall when I play Rocky Mountain Way, an AC30 when I play Tie Your Mother Down, a Fender Twin when I play Hotel California... They aren't "perfect" replicas but they are ideal for what I want to do. Like PA cabs, FRFR cabs are not perfectly flat. The HRs seem very bottom heavy, but they are ideal, again, for what I want. Just blew the HR 2nd tweeter in 6 months. Not happy about that though. Might just disconnect it rather than replacing it again.

[@-Thunder]

The FX return on any modeling amp with a good speaker should work fine. If you've got reference monitors you could EQ your amp to sound pretty close to your reference monitors. I'm going to change my home setup to A/B between reference monitors and tube amp. I agree the FRFR thing is too expensive. Tweak what you have first.

[@jimamsden]

FRFR (in something like Powercab) is most useful if you need the flexibility of different speaker tones. But its really necessary if you need to include acoustic guitar tones in your guitar mix. No question that a modeler into the effect return of a tube amp into a good guitar speaker will sound better. But it won't be very flexible.

[@riccampbell]

Agreed - though Jonathon makes good points regarding straight electric tones. For a number of years the project I was working with needed a variety of stringed sounds, for me the Helix and Variax were the solution. From electrics to acoustic 6 and 12 strings, dobro, banjo - I even pumped percussion and keys through the system. Simply wouldn't sound right through a frequency-limited cab.

[@michaelbreach5862]

I had a headrush FRFR for a bit that I used with Strymon Iridium- I did not find it to give me what I was looking for and sold it. I am much happier honestly with the sound of going into the FX return of my marshall. Sometimes I even like to put my amps preamp in to 4 cable with the HX stomp and essentially create my own clean channel by turning that FX loop on or off. Works particularly well with more old school amps that do not have a squeaky clean channel or have a shared gain ( Like my Marshall Juibilee).

[@replicant8532]

I've been using Guitar -> USB Interface -> VST Plugin -> Power amp -> Mesa 2x12 cabinet signal chain for the longest time.

[@JM-eq3sx]

To answer the "why not just bring a real amp?" question, the modeler gives you a spectrum of choices. While they aren't the "real" Deluxe Reverb or Boogie Mark IV, the approximation a modeler creates gives you both in a single cabinet. For an original band, I would go with the tube amp (or amps) suited to the music. I'm looking at the Red Sound ELIS 8 and MF10. Nobody has done a side by side comparison yet, and they're way too expensive to experiment with both. A pair of the 8's looks very appealing. But your video makes a lot of sense. I listen to some old recordings, many generations of gear in the past, and think, "Damn, I had a really good sound, should have just stuck with that." But it never seems quite enough in the moment and in the midst of a live performance. The Henriksen did sound pretty dark in your video by the way. I thought it was where the camera was positioned. It worked well for what you were playing but it would be lost in my band. For a cover band, a modeler is far more practical, and if the audience enjoys the music, the purist standing in the corner will have to concede that it does the job very well. I'm in a tribute band and we cover the artist from Woodstock to the present. His guitars and amps, and therefore tone, have changed quite a bit over the years. I could do it with discrete pedals but the modeler makes it much easier and lets me think about the music. Tube amps can be fickle too. I have a Boogie Nomad head in my basement. I may have to break it out and see how it works. Assuming you have a combo. What speaker(s) are in it?

[@giacomoneri1782]

You could still use a modeler for pedals and use a real amp, or use a digital preamp into a tube power amp. Similar to what they did in the late 80s with things like the Mp1 or the Triaxis.

[@chrisb3389]

I've gotten amazing tones running my Nux MG-30 into the power amp in on my Katana 50. I upgraded the speaker to a Celestion Neo Creamback. I turn the IRs off. The speaker is very versatile with different amp models. Still a cheap solution when I want an amp. At church I go straight to PA.

[@MajorUpgrade]

I need to try this with my pod go and katana again. Thanks for reminding me :D.

[@GazWJ205]

Similar - I use a joyo american sound pedal into the power in on my Kat 50, sounds brilliant. Oddly the AS pedal seems to take OD pedals better than the kat pre-amp, much smoother low-gain sound. Kat as a powered cab, given the price of 50 mk2's now is an absolute bargain if you don't need FRFR.

[@zoomzoom3950]

When I use modelers into FRFR, I found the key to improving the sounds for guitar, is to use EQ to attenuate / eliminate frequencies below 60-70 Hz and above 3-5 kHz; adjust to your rig and tastes

[@scstraus]

So basically the same effect you'd get from running through a guitar cab then

[@bobolufson9861]

You caused me to finally hook up my helix to my Mesa 2:90 stereo tube power amp! Then i went out into my Marshall 1960 split stereo 4X12 cab. It sounds so incredible! For a year I only went out to a PA system and was happy enough. What got me motivated and curious was your comment about the existence of tweeters being unnatural for guitar amplification which finally got me to try this today! Thank you very much. You directly saved me well over $1,000 as I was in the FRFR market. 😊

[@Kasper911band]

The reason in theory a FRFR cabinet is supposed to work is because the simulation of the amp and speakers in a modeling amp is basically a already mic’ed cab, and you are listening to the studio mixed version of the amp and speaker, so in theory the FRFR cabs should be like a good pair of studio speakers and should be fine, but! The problem is most powered FRFR wedges with the tweezers are so directional that as soon as you move 3 feet to the right or left you are no longer getting accurate sound, because studio speakers and any home speakers are meant to be listened to while sitting in the “sweet spot” in the center of both speakers. So that’s never going to work in a live situation! So we just have to remember modeling amps are tools, and they are a compromise that just makes things easier sometimes, but whenever I can use my real amp I do! I have two Friedman powered FRFR wedges that weigh around 63 pounds each! I never use more than one, but mostly none Live, I just ask the sound guy to put me in my house monitor, and I pretend I’m having fun until it’s over! lol and I just wait for a real gig when I can use my real tube amps! Life is about knowing what is best the tool for the job at hand, every gig is different! 🤟🏽😋

I’ve used boss katana as a speaker for ax8 and headrush. Just plug straight in the input and select acoustic amp model. Eq to taste. Works like a charm

[@geokar16]

You can actually use the power amp in input, where it bypasses the preamp

[@sboy1955]

For years we have simply run our Line 6 units direct into PAs.. live or practice. Actually the only amp in our band is used by the keyboard player for his Hammond.

[@gabrielwareing]

I’ve been using the power amp in on a boss katana for gigs recently. It works really nicely with a modeler, there’s no eq on that setup but it does sound just like the modeler is a real amp.

[@azizaziz7007]

I did the same then got powercab 112+. Katana sounded great and more open.

[@skipneumann1]

Are you using mono out presets into the power amp in? Any other advice? I already own a Katana so I want to try that with FM9 before buying anything else. Thanks

[@RogueYogis]

I am now using the Boss GT-1000. Usually the stage monitor do the job. But! I like to use a Fender Vintage sidekick keyboard 70w amp for the back line as well. It has 2 inputs with volume control, bass, mid and treble eq. It has a 10 inch speaker in a closed, ported cabinet with very good bass response with no tweeter! Small, light weight and cheap!! The reason I really like it, is I put it on an amp stand and you can easily tweek the eq and volume, they are right there on the front. No pesky tweeter yet still has pretty flat eq. Not so loud but the whole idea is to keep the stage volume down right? So it's great when you want to move to the back of the stage away from the sweet spot of the floor monitors and still hear yourself play.

[@QuikdethDeviantart]

I love my headrush and 2x frfr108s… but my band hated it. I added a marshall avt50 with a 4x12 as a mono out. (using 1/4” and the 2 xlrs go to the frfr cabs on stands). It sounds glorious. One show we also mic’d the marshall thru the PA and it was even more awesome. BUT I got sick of lugging equipment. Now I just use the marshall (because my band finds frfr only unacceptable, not because it’s the better option). Personally I would just bring the Headrush and go right into the PA stereo xlr and maybe one frfr behind me to monitor things. But the reality is it’s my singer’s band and I can do the whole set with 2 sounds (clean and dirty) with a boost for leads and a wah. I do miss the huge sound I was getting with both but for practical reasons I gave up trying to convince luddite musicians who listen with their eyes that my “r2-d2” modeler is all that’s needed. In fact, the audience only really hear the PA anyway so the “amp in the room” thing is for the band… When I do my own thing you probably won’t see an amp on stage… for now I’ll enjoy the bar owner rolling his eyes as the 4x12s come in… cant say I blame them but I did try!

[@tristangarel-funk3236]

Great comment 👍🏻

[@Rhythmanalysis]

I recently took my kemper stage to a rehearsal. I normally use a traditional valve amp (tone king falcon grande). And we’re LOUD. in the past I’ve run the kemper through a headrush 108 FRFR but a bad back meant this time I just went into our PA. And immediately everyone thought it was amazing because they could all clearly hear me (there were 4 different PA speakers running). There’s a mindset change from this for me: the FRFR is basically a PA speaker. It’s not an amp and it doesn’t replace one. It’s there as a monitor to let me hear myself. The band PA is there for everyone else to hear me. It’s not an amp or an amp replacement. Oh, and next time I take the valve amp, it’ll a) be attenuated and b) mic’d and then it’ll be better heard (not louder) for all!

[@MoonBlue121]

I tried so many different rigs, amps, pedals and I’ve finished up with my Marshall DSL with a FM3 in 4CM. Nothing gives me that “amp” feel, which is hard to explain, but those who know, will know what I mean. There’s nothing else that gives me the choices of effects and amps like the FM3. I’m so pleased with the set up.

[@DrProgNerd]

I'm a home player. I bought a pair of Atomic CLR powered FRFR's a few years back. While they were good, I didn't feel they were $2k-good. As an experiment, I ran through a pair of 8" Mackie studio monitors. At low-medium volumes, they did quite well. Right now, I'm running QC into a pair of Adam A77X's and I've never been happier.

[@Maionemente]

Hi John, what do you think about the power amp in of Katana Mark II 50 used like a monitor for Helix? The problem about the monitors is if you have stereo effects in the preset you will hear them in mono. Thanks. (You are a great guitar player, everything you play...)

[@RodVonLongrod]

My Mk II Katana 100 & Mk II Artist both have the Power Amp in feature for modelers. My Headrush Prime sounds pretty good through both amps.

[@aviator_bryan]

I’ve had great success with a Friedman ASM12. It’s made of birch with a Celestion in it, so it thumps like a real cab. If I have an opportunity, I sometimes use a Powerstage 170 and a Marshall 1960B with V30s.

[@terrycline8689]

My experience: have tried modeling/FRFR multiple times. have worked long and hard to dial in something I think I would be proud to play in public. Every time I think I am there...I plug into my amps...and...game over - the amps are just ...well, better. Warmer, fuller, more responsive. John you have it right. If that is the sound I like, why am I trying to work so hard to dial in all the variables, just to end up with an inferior experience? Sure, we haul less equipment, but we put out a lesser sound, to my ears. To be fair, I have both a Helix and a Line 6 HX Effects. I find I use the HX Effects over the Helix, as it fits on my board along side several other pedals. I use the HX Effects for the majority of the signal massaging (EQ, compression), MIDI and signal routing. I can add mono effects such as Trem and of course various drives. I also take advantage of the effects loops to add high end OD and/or distortion pedals. Then I run all of that into the front of one of my amps, taking the preamp out signal back to the pedal board where I run the signal through my stereo modulation effects. I return those outputs one each to my two Fender Deville 4x10 amps. Freaking glorius stereo heaven. For me at least.

[@chrisnaishguitar]

Was running my Fractal FM3 into a Friedman ASM12 for a long time, and I loved it, but it was heavy (52 lbs), and a bit awkward to carry the rare times I did jam with other people. Most importantly, even at really low volume settings, my family still complained that it was just too loud. I now run my FM3 into a pair of Kali LP6 v2 studio monitors and am enjoying a comparable experience even at lower volumes.

[@sixtyaffairs]

I had three experiences with my GX 100 in a live Situation. One time I had to share the Stage and the other Guitarist had a Marshall Stack with Send Return . With no editing from my Studio Setting I was trying the Effects Return of the Marshall and it sounded great. The other thing is a 200W Harley Benton G212 FR Cabinet I am using in our Rehersal Room. Sounds great. A Headrush FR 108 sounded awful to me. But the best thing I experienced was a Kemper Power Kabinet . That sounds like a real Tube Amp . Perfect.

[@pascalbourhis]

Hi But the Kemper has already IRs if I’m not wrong? So you can put them off?

[@sixtyaffairs]

@@pascalbourhis No you can't do anything without the Kemper Profiler. I don't mind because it sounds good. To be honest, I didn't even put the Cabsim in my GX100 off.

[@pascalbourhis]

@@sixtyaffairs Strange that sound good because your cumulate 2 cabs sim… I also have the GX-100 + the same Harley Benton. I do not use any of the GX-100 cabs sims but I use IRs that sounds terrible!

[@brianlebrun2382]

Good video. I use one of 2 FRFRs, one being a powercab 112 and the other is a Headrush FRFR112. A few weeks ago I did an A/B test and found that the Headrush had more amp-like qualities (at least for what I want to hear) than the PC. These are just for my monitoring on stage although I tend to put them behind me as I would an amp. My sound comes from the mains in stereo. I could just bring one of my 2 tube amps and run into the return but I also carry and run sound and lights so there's no room for an amp. The FRFR sits upright seat belted in my passenger seat in my car. Again, I just use it to hear myself and not for the amp in the room sound. If I ever quit doing sound I'll probably go back to an amp. I used to have a Headrush pedalboard and it sounded excellent through the amp.

[@blueleaftuber]

I just ordered a Headrush mx5 and am considering selling my jazz chorus 40 amp for the headrush 108, maybe two of them in stereo. I have a full pedal board as well, and I realized I don't use the JC-40 for any of the tone or color.

[@davidforsythe8231]

Moral of this video is know what you want when experimenting. You'll often find you don't need a ton of gear to be content in most cases. FRFR is cool but I honestly have gotten a more rounded glassy sound to my liking out of a fender solid state. Doesn't ad gain as much as tube Amp when adding volume. Also with using the EQ pedal on the podgo I get a good enough sound to not make me spend hundreds of dollars. Go direct Amp out mic the Amp. And have one cable going to front of house with Amp and cab modeling on. You almost get a dual Amp sound to fill any gaps you might feel your missing in tone. Been my experience so far.

[@mgie22]

I just got a solid state power amp to feed my favorite cab, and to me it’s the perfect sweet spot for helix. All I was missing was a real cab in the room, not amp in the room.

[@fishy4071]

A lot of tweeters, particularly cheaper ones, are a bit harsh, don't have a smooth response. With a crossover point around 1.8kHz to 2.5kHz any phase problems could be messing with important frequencies for guitar. Bi-amped powered cabs will have the crossover before the power amps which can help. Having your own sound source is a good safety net if you don't know the pa you'll be using.

[@CristiNeagu]

I think this is a bit of a gimmick... Guitarists come from a world where cabinets are meant to colour sound. That is what they know and are used to. So when they start using simulated cabs, they are told that if you run a simulated cab through a real cab, it will sound very, very bad. Which is true. But then they're told that the cure for this is a full range, flat response speaker. Here's one, for loads of cash! Specially made for guitar players! But the truth is that most PA speakers try to achieve a full range, flat response. Some come closer than others, but the point is that you can just get a good PA speaker and it will be good enough. Maybe add an EQ block before the output, or maybe use the global EQ if this is a speaker you use all the time, and it will be just as good.

[@maxwellbrewer8637]

Or you can get a guitar power amp and a sweet cabinet of your choice 😉

[@CristiNeagu]

@@maxwellbrewer8637 Why would I spend more money for less?

[@adityabali1939]

Or you could get iem’s and go completely in ear

[@CristiNeagu]

@@adityabali1939 I'm sure the audience will enjoy that greatly.

[@adityabali1939]

@@CristiNeagu I’ve never played a gig where the audience was listening to my guitar amp on the stage. Most venues have stage sound and PA sound separate. If the audience is going to hear the mix that the in house engineer has made, your point isn’t valid. In such a situation IEM makes more sense. I should mention i play metal

[@sonicdnaartistjeffmilam6371]

I currently use a Headrush pedalboard through the effects return to 2 Marshall heads and into 2 Marshall 1960 cabs, running stereo, and yes I leave the ir on and there is no phase issues, with Headrush when you turn the ir off it sounds like a chain saw. So for me doing live shows. I either use the Marshall Heads or Solid State power amps in stereo, absolutely does the trick. I sold both FRFR made everything to digital. The Tube heads using just the power section give it warmth. I myself don’t run direct to a console. I mic both cabs. People says that defeats the purpose. It depends on the individual guitarist. If you want a warm tone and don’t mind keeping Extra gear to do it why not, if you just want to plug straight in and not use cabs if that works for you great 😊

[@larrysteinke1839]

the concept of FRFR assumes that your modeling of the power amp reactance and speaker and cabinet responses are referenced to a flat response. you could also just correct the response of the IR or just EQ it to allow for the different response of your non-FRFR speaker, ie. a regular PA speaker which is just somewhere between an FRFR and a guitar speaker. look at the speakers in a Positive Grid Spark. They have neither the response of a guitar speaker or a flat response but the response is electronically compensating for the speaker.

[@johnmccarthy9445]

Just wanted to add, I don't know how many modeler owners care about stereo, not too many people really talk about it - though, John, you certainly build it into you presets to great effect. I find it to be one of the most important and compelling features in my HX Stomp and QC (IMHO). My question to John and everyone else is, first, how important to you is stereo, and second, does the need for stereo change depending on the environment. For example, is stereo more important in the home/studio but less important in a live venue?

[@markdouglas8073]

Good question. Which there were more responses. It is important to me at home. God have us 2 ears (and ten fingers).

[@derekjuliano1298]

I’ve been using a Line 6 Catalyst 100w plugged into the return/power amp in. But I just recently made my own stereo rig. It started as a Trace Elliot 2x12 combo amp someone was throwing away. The amp had been ripped out and was in pieces, but the cab was good and was loaded with Celestion V30s. I cut a slot in the top of the cab to drop in an ART SL-2 single space power amp and wired the speakers in stereo. No more cab sims for me…except going direct to the mixer for FOH

[@derekjuliano1298]

Ah man…I edited my comment and I lost your ❤️ John!

[@KerteszHuba]

I use a Bose S1 Pro with the Iridium and all of my modelers on the past. Sounds awesome

[@fishy4071]

LOVE these clips from your gigs !

[@1972Georges]

Laney LFR-112 FRFR got a tweeter but you can adjust to your liking - also you can switch if off completely.

[@robertritchie3134]

Whatever sound you dial in at home or in the studio invariably won't work in a live situation and that's why one of the most useful pedals on the planet is a BOSS 7 band EQ. Its a great clean boost (as well) and allows you to sculpt your sounds to suit the venue. Each venue has different acoustics - that's why there are things called sound checks... of course smaller bands and pub / wedding events won't have this luxury - hence the BOSS is great to tweak during the gig. Playing to an empty venue in comparison to playing to it full of people affects the sound as well. It a live situation more mids are useful (to cut through the mix) - your "bedroom/studio set-up" won't reflect this as you're not playing with a full band at home... so at home less mids - during a gig more is required. That PEDAL show has a lot of useful info about EQs etc. Lastly there are some really good "amp-in-a-pedal" solutions out there, where I am sure you could plug your modeller into it to get really good tones. I am considering one of the H&K Spirit Nano amps, which I think will be a great way of generating great sounds at lowish cost for home recording as well as playing "live" - I suggest one that has a decent amount of headroom or a solid state amp that won't distort at hight volumes. I agree with John - why buy a FRFR to take to a gig when you can carry a guitar speaker cab... I suggest a 1x12 is more than good enough for 80% of the time - buy a used one.

[@stevemacdreamcolours]

Our band has found that the best and more stable (no surprises) solution in terms of sound quality is to get rid of all amps and cabinets and have all instruments connecting directly to a mixer (and guitars through their modellers) , and use FRFR for stage monitors and PA front house.

[@MattyVicious1]

I use the boss GX-100 4 cable method into my Orange half stack. Turn cab block off and sounds amazing.

[@AudioAtmos]

Pair of QSC K12.2’s. They have some useful EQ’ing functions and I/O options that make them versatile.

[@JM-eq3sx]

That's got to sound massive. You've got your own Front of House system.

[@AudioAtmos]

@@JM-eq3sx They do push some sound. I’m an old timer guitar player, but a newbie to modeling. At first I got them to use as basic sound reinforcement, but soon realized they did a great job with modelers and they became dedicated. Probably a bit more power than I would need. Their sweet spot is quite loud, but sound good a lower levels too.

[@MattPriceGuitar]

You're living the dream, those are great speakers.

[@AudioAtmos]

@@MattPriceGuitar 👍👍👍

[@vg99]

I use the Roland Cube XL which was made around 2010 built like a tank, and LOUD! It easily holds it own - I could play anywhere with this amp. Even if the other guitarist had a Marshall Stack, the 80 Cube 80XL would still cut through. It is voiced more like an FRFR unlike its successor the GX which was darker sounding. I use it with my GR 55 and GP 10 .

[@tomulator]

I like running my Kemper Stage in stereo to my Line 6 Powercab 212+, and then taking a mono XLR from the Powercab to the FOH. Allows me to have full “stereo” stage monitoring but pass-through a mono signal to the sound engineer. Independent volume control onstage that doesn’t affect the level sent to FOH.

[@sonofdirt]

A used solid state stereo combo is the perfect fit, & some of them are dirt cheap. The cheap ones are anything inspired by a Roland JC-120, but made by Fender / Peavey / Crate etc. usually marketed as 'Chorus' amps. I use preamp pedals with stereo FX into the stereo FX returns, it's a killer budget stereo rig.

[@sugarprobe]

I like the darker tones as well. I also prefer my QC into a boogie tube amp and I leave my cab sim on as well. Sounds and feels how I like.

[@johnlerro997]

FRFR cabs are too expensive for what you're getting. Here's what I use live with a Fractal AX8; an old Showman 2x12 cab loaded with Celestion K12H-200TC full range speakers, powered with a DV Mark Micro 60 (into the return) sitting on top. Looks like a real rig, and the Micro 60 acts as a backup for the AX8 (never needed, knock on wood!). I get asked constantly what's that 'little amp' that sounds unbelievable.

[@jakestewartmusic]

I've never used any powered cab - I just run direct and use the house PA floor monitors. The 3 keys to making this work- 1) dial in your sound for live use through a real PA at volume. 2) be respectful and clear with the sound engineer on what you need to hear on stage. 3) keep your global EQ open for last-minute tweaks to fit the room. This path is relatively more risky because you're relying on the sound engineer and house PA, but frankly if I'm playing somewhere where they can't get my guitar loud and clear enough on stage, there are likely a whole host of other sound issues that should be addressed and the venue is likely unworthy of anyone's time.

[@jnh73]

I have the same three keys in mind. However, most of the house PA floor wedges I've had the... um... "privilege" of using have speakers that sound like they were broken in by dunking them in a vat of Bud Light. ;)

[@johnlerro997]

I did that once and it sounded so bad I thought my modeler cab simulator was off. The house sound man said the monitors were "optimized for vocals", which meant nothing but mids.

[@jakestewartmusic]

@@johnlerro997 That sucks, I definitely would have politely asked them to remove any board EQ on my guitar channel or remove the high/low shelves since you have more than just vocals in the monitors

[@tmuka]

I bought a stereo FRFR to make practicing at home flap my pants more than with my 5" studio monitors, while still preserving some semblance of similarity to the sound I get through my reference IEMs (UE RRM) at gigs. Another convenience is with helix you can then play your baking tracks into the FRFR too over USB from iOS or computer.

[@1972Georges]

what kind of stereo FRFR do you use?

[@goodheartmedia]

I had the Powercab and found it dull and drab sounding. I bought the Laney LFR-112 and IMO it's much better. However I still find that hearing an FRFR from behind you is still a "weird" sensation to the ears. When I hear my Helix presets come through my wedge monitor they sound awesome to me, but from behind my brain still wants the classic sound of an amp, not the sound of an amp being miked and run through a full range system. So I run one of the aux sends out of the Helix pre-speaker cab with it's own separate EQ block and plug that into the effects return of my tube head. FOH gets my XLR out and that gets folded back into my wedge montior. So I get the best of both worlds - "real" amp from behind, miked amp sound from the wedge.

[@vasudevajopaul1089]

Love your personality, sincerity, musicality. Regarding EVM 12 inch: I had one in a Fender Deluxe for a couple years; until I played a 12" Celestion in a similar Fender Deluxe I could not get the personality, warmth, typical Guitar speaker distortion. For me the EVM was like a PA speaker… Sort of FRFR 🙂

[@Eliminator-rl9sn]

Have a look at the first generation of Bluguitar`s Amp1 (they call it silver edition). It is a 100W amp of just around 1kg. Connecting a modeler to the return input of this amp is going to give you a high end modeler amplification. It is dead quiet and very organic. For me one of the best amplifiers for modelers. Although the amp itself is excellent, but if you prefer your modeler sounds, its power amp is outstanding.

[@johnnathancordy]

I believe I have a video with one up here somewhere!!

[@page29]

I thought I was the only one who liked the tone of the modeler speaker/ir in addition to the actual amp speaker. I look at it as another EQ option, essentially using the ir as a EQ preset of sorts, shaping the tone before it hits the amp. And, as you mentioned, seems to keep my tone more consistent at a variety of volumes.

[@nikolaki]

I plug my Zoom G3n into the power amp in of my Fender Champ 25R and it sounds really wonderful. The preamp in the combo is so noisy and it hummy. The power amp noise floor by contrast is silent. For clean stuff it really is great and 25W is good enough for stage monitoring. The G3n does a decent job emulating a range of preamps for high gain stuff. Using a cab emulation also helps as the volume goes up and the natural breakup of the power tubes sounds divine.

[@michaelwilson2497]

I had my Zoom on Krampus and ran it to my 5150 Iconic and my 4x12 celestion cab to the left and a Randall 100 watt 2x12 on the right. It was phenomenal. Had to downsize. Almost cried. Have to go with one of these.

[@19501960]

I use a EHX magnum solid state into a 2 x 10 cab I swapped the cab guitar speakers for pa speakers £66 for both and plug in the modeller. Works. With MY valve amp and a 1x12 cab to get a good sound I could only use the modeller as a multi effects pedal, using the amps and cabs of the modeller sounded thin and terrible spent the night adjusting eq's I'm afraid to let go off the valve amp and cab as it really is the best sound, but the convenience of a powered FRFR set up still draws me in.

[@e.t.k]

The live performance (@04:58) with people dancing is great, even the singer likes it !

[@BobbyLaneProductions]

the amp in a room vs a modeler FRFR system debate will probably never be resolved.. it's a matter of taste.. I use my Axe-Fx III through either a pair of QSC K10s or Turbosound iQ12s.. the 10 band global EQ output roll off starts at 4K.. it sounds great and I love the stereo spread.

[@dreamaster9000]

I was going to warn you that stacking an IR into a real cab could dampen some of your top end, and then you went right into the diatribe about being treble sensitive. Sometimes it just WORKS. :) Great video and discussion.

[@therangersinger]

Best thing about FRFR, which is how I use my power cab 212 plus. Is that when I run my boss looper with drum backing tracks through it with my helix it's sounds freaking amazing. If I use any other mode of the powercab then the drums get colored and sound muffled. So FRFR is a win win for me. What works for one player. Doesn't work for another.

[@josephbot6]

Hi again!

[@SteveKuhMusic]

Yours is good advice. I tried two FRFRs with my Fractal FM3 -- the Atomic NEO MKII and Xitone 12" Active Wedge . I sold them both because, as you've experienced, they just don't work well live. I've since been using a Quilter Tone Block 202 into two 12" cabs with high watt NEO speakers. The Quilter has an FRFR voicing, which together with the NEO cabs, runs quite flat. I'm able to keep both amp and cab modelling turned ON while running the FM3 into the front of the Quilter. You can run into the Quilter's FX Loop return, but that disables all of the Quilter controls except its reverb and master volume. By running it into the front, the Quilter EQ and other controls remain active and gives easy access to adjustment. In addition, the Quilter is itself an amp so you can use it as a back up to the modeller should something happen to it during a gig. You can also use the Quilter's built-in IR voicings with your modeller's effects only, by creating a preset that do not have amp or cab blocks.

[@tonyortega8065]

I also use the Quilter 202 with FRFR, it's fantastic. but I use the QC!

[@rockstarjazzcat]

The second FR… flat response. That matters to me when taking the time to dial in tones across devices. The hybrid approach, splitting out a line before the cab block, is great for the “make a lot of noise” situations. I use a Matrix power amp into my now ancient dual rectifier cabs. Folks turning up treble is s sign of hearing loss. I prefer darker, lower mid focused, tones as well. Cheers, D

[@kcapkcans]

I run a Boss IR-200 direct usually, but also will plug it into a Roland JC-40. I've found it's sort of the best of both worlds where it feels like an amp and still has a pretty flat response (plus actual stereo!)

[@BeauregardHall]

I've started running my Pod Go into my old Marshall Code, turning off all effects and amp emulators in the code, so it's just a powered speaker cabinet that was built to emulate a wide variety of speaker cabinets (and also super cheap)

[@haydenmoore584]

Interesting concept, so i run a bit of an interesting rig. I run a Kemper rack and an engl pre amp with a VHT D50 handwired dumble clone, the VHT has a Pre amp bypass so it becomes a Fryette Power amp essentially, but if i want heavy heavy i have the Engl, the kemper is great for everything else depending. and then i have that running out into an old 1970s princeton that was broken from work, took the amp out and its now a 2x10 cab with a Fender blue (eminence)10 inch speaker from 1970 and a celestion 10 creamback. theres a seperate 2x4 cab depending on what i need todo. but its pretty cool playing around with all the difference tones and possiblites you can have

[@bruunm1975]

Recently sold my Line6 PowerCab and have my Laney 212 LFR for sale. Loved the sound, but it was very directional. As soon as I stepped out of the "beam" I could no longer hear myself. Just bought a Twin Tonemaster and use Helix as FX only... its a revelation... Sound from everywhere and back to natural feedback etc. And yes having a EQ on the front of the amp helps. I also have a high cut on global EQ and usually cut aroun 5-6khz at home and at gigs down to 2.5-3khz.

[@bruunm1975]

And the LFR 212 sounds montrous... love it! But Twin wins, also its half the weight.

[@scottpeters4401]

I have tried many,many “FRFR”speakers…I did all the high cut/low cut tricks,EQ blocks,etc….and none of them even came remotely close to a power amp and real guitar cab…..Especially at gig volume’s……I don’t care about not being able to use a thousand different IR’s…I just want one great cab,so using a real cab is what works best for me…it’s cheaper and sounds far better for my needs….

[@johnnathancordy]

I think that sums it up nicely!!

[@lucaszembrzuski]

I use Two Notes Le Clean tube preamp with Two Notes CAB M+ (4x12 V30) after it, pedals before and stereo pedals after it. Im a little bit torn between Fender FR-12 to use after CAB M+ VS EHX 5mm poweramp and just a regular cab with V30. I suspect the cab with real guitar speaker could use alot better even without ale the eq options avaliable on FR-12 (i have a eq pedal i ill need to shape the sound some more), also that would have no latency at all. I also have and like my Ibanez TSA15 combo but i love the fender twin sounds from Le Clean preamp.

[@neilwarden]

Interesting. 25 years ago I used to play my POD 2 through an AER (Power Amp in) and folks looked at me as if I was crazy. FRFR has come along way. Thanks for great videos. Oh... and I hate too much top... dark is good.

[@kenjiwhe]

I've got a 30 watt Orange PPC-112 cab after my pedalboard solid state poweramp. I think it sounds better, much more 'real' than the Laney FRFR I tried last year. Plus no hassle with simulated cabs or IR's. Just switch my rig on and play. And it saves you blocks and DSP for effects and stuff. One minor catch, not all amps sound great with my analog Orange PPC-112 cab but some, like the Brit Plexy (Jump) sounds really great. If you have a Vox or Fender cab you'll probably have another cross section of amps that you dig.

[@JoshuaGay]

Dude...that intro was beautiful!! Great phrasing. Really wish I could play like that.

[@rodrigocastrofoto]

After watching this, I just tried to leave the IR active through the return of a solid state amp into a 1x12 with an Eminence speaker. After some tweeking (with lo and hi cuts) I did get a better result than without it. Some of the harshness from my 1x12 (even with normal setups) was taken away and it sounded bigger. Not perfect but fully usable. Thanks for the video and valuable advice

[@MartinCraneRockbeast]

Horses for courses. If you're not ready for the broader range of FRFR then tread your own path. Some may want their ambient sounds to shimmer to their fullest ability. Consider Wet/Dry/Wet maybe?

[@jnparesa]

John, I just purchased a Fractal FM9 and a Hendrick Ten. Do you feel this combination for live. The FM-9 has not yet arrived.

[@Sea_Jay]

For me, taking my headrush frfr with a mooer 250 modeler is way smaller to move than taking my full size amp and pedal board. Plus the modeler has way more to offer in term of sounds I can get out of it

[@7516663]

Hey thanks for the video. I'm trying to decide what direction to go within this realm. I am looking to use amp in a box type modelers with on board cap emulations and just enjoy playing it at home. I wont be gigging or anything. Would a good pair of studio monitor speakers give me an experience on par with playing into a traditional amplifier? Or would a FRFR cab be more appropriate?

[@killaken2000]

I use an axeFX and solid state Carvin amp into some old 90s 2x12 randall cabs with no problems. Not saying frfr wouldn't sound better/different but I'm happy with what I'm using and haven't heard any complaints.

[@mikeaustin4138]

I've used both of the Atomic cabs (not the CLR, but the older models.) Sound great. Also used the Laney IRT-X, which is not as loud, but more portable. I don't play live, just at home and at rehearsal spaces. I now run through a Blackstar HT-5R. One of the great things about digital is IRs. FRFR was designed with IRs in mind and, from what I've read, using IRs into a guitar amp's power section connected to a guitar speaker is not advisable.

[@zoomzoom3950]

I used modelers into FRFR for many years. Still have them and use them... Recently switched to HX Effects + Catalyst 100 in 4CM with MIDI to control the Catalyst amp model and boost from the HX Effects, works great, versatile and sounds great too. The HX Effects works great into the front / in the effects loop of my tube amps: Marshall, Engl, and Fender.

[@ChrisDeJuanMusic]

Great video again, thanks for sharing your experiences and knowledge on the subject man! For my small solo restaurant gigs I've been using a PodGo with a TC Electronics Plethora X5 inserted in the stereo effects loop of the pod... and going straight in to a small HK Audio PA... and I also put my home made backing tracks through the PA via it's bluetooth channel with a little ipad. It's a neat little set up, all effects in stereo too which I really enjoy... but lately I've been missing a bit of 'unfff' for my guitar sound so have started taking a small Fender Bassbreaker amp (another extra thing to carry which sort of defeats the point of using an amp emulator) ...anyway... I go from the AmpOut on the PofGo to the return on the back of the Fender Amp... it sort of works, but one problem I find is that the signal from the Podgo's AmpOut is really really f****** loud... so I either have to insert a pad gain reduction pedal or just go in to the front of the Fender amp to be able to reduce the volume on the amp! Another problem is that all the stereo effect patches I have carefully created on the PodGo are lost...'coz the AmpOut signal taps out just before the Cab/IR block... so I don't get any of the podgo's effects on the Fender Amp... if i want the AmpOut signal to carry the effects, all the effect blocks have to be in front of the Cab/IR block which means I loose the stereo! So... basically it looks like the PodGo's design sort of pushes you to have to buy an FRFR cab! I'm thinking of getting the inexpensive Harley Benton FRFR 212 Stereo cab and seeing how I get on with this... before splashing out on the Line 6 212 Powercab! Have you by any chance tried out the PodGo or the Helix with the Harley Benton 212 FRFR!? Thanks again, really enjoying all your videos!

[@christian_oz]

The twitter is meant to make the response of the speak flatter. The IR is supposed to give the response of a guitar speaker, that fed into an FRFR would reproduce is close as possible. If you prefer darker sounds, you could explore with an IR from a darker speaker. If you use an IR and feed that into a guitar speaker, you would be getting a darker sound than the speaker the IR was created from.

[@dougjfindlay]

Not using an frfr means that you are limited to the cab that your using. Fine if you are running a plexi model into a 4 x 12 with Greenbacks. But then when you switch your fender tweed model it will sound wrong. If you are worried about spiky top end then just put an eq on your modeller and cut frequencies above 6.5k. Laney FRFR stuff is cool.

[@davemonty8979]

I do the same with the speaker ir still engaged. I know people say not to do that but to MY ears...It sounds FANTASTIC. Im using a 44 Magnum and a 1x12 cab btw

[@Stefan-]

I have never used FRFR, i have always used my modeler (rack) with a rack tube amp and a guitarspeaker and it sounds great like a traditional amp so no need to go further for me.

[@dukegdl]

Absolutely true. Those are indeed the main problems one encounters when using the FRFR. The FRFR is something extraordinary, I use it all the time. However players using them on youtube sound horrible. And maybe I never would have bought it, if I had seen a video of them before. The sound is so raw. It is not made to plug and play. And that's what most do. You have to have production concepts to be able to exploit it to the fullest. That is where the designers of these speakers have gone wrong. They are not for guitarists.

[@jfrankcarr]

I've used an old Peavey Bandit 65 to amplify modelers for many years when I wasn't going direct into a PA.

[@eanroad]

I think you nailed it when you brought up the question of why would you use a FRFR cab that weighs just as much as a common amp... I appreciate the thoughts. This makes me want to get the Bluguitar Amp X even more when it comes out, since I imagine it can be used with the nano cab and fat cab (which are relatively lighter in weight).

[@sboy1955]

Yep, why not just get a tube amp if you’re gonna drag around an FRFR ?

[@waitin4winter]

What FRFR or powered speaker have you used that weighs as much as a tube amp?? Tube amps are way heavier than a powered speaker

[@waitin4winter]

Ok I just saw his laney 212 example. Yes in that case I agree, why go through that trouble and not just use an amp

[@michielnijboer]

Because in essence with a modeller you’re not carrying one tube amp but 250 or so and potentially hundreds of speaker cabs. Not saying you necessarily need that, the point is that any modeller with FRFR will be more flexible than one particular tube amp. My main concern is how it feels, I sometimes feel I’m missing something when going back to my Fractal FM3 with FR speakers after having plaid a real tube amp again.

[@sboy1955]

@@michielnijboer - Having never owned or played a hand wired boutique amp, I am not qualified to say modelers are as good as any tube amp. However, having owned and played several typical, sub $1000, circuit board tube amps, I can say today’s modeling is neck and neck with any of those. And it is that class of amp that you see most often in live settings.

[@danielstryhanyn7278]

Honestly in my experience just playing my modeler through my tube amp is perfect.

[@GlennMichaelThompson]

Rather than an FRFR in a guitar speaker cab I prefer to use a powered monitor wedge. The wedge aims the sound at a better angle than a guitar cab, which is essentially aimed at your legs. Other alternatives for an FRFR type response are keyboard amps or larger acoustic guitar/vocal amps which are basically more compact PA systems. I prefer these to guitar amps only because I'm using a Line 6 JM4 looper with WAV files of real drummers as well as a Roland Groovebox or other modules with synthesizer tones.... So a full-range speaker is somewhat necessary. If I do a gig with only guitar, then I'll use one of my guitar amps (or 2 for a wider dispersion of guitar tones). I find that using two guitar amps affects the way I play in a positive way...and it can become addictive! lol Cheers.