How Hot Will a Lee 4-20 Casting Furnace Get?

[@elvisammo]

Hey Man! I was surprised for sure how high the temps got! I don't know how much of a role the crust on top played in insulating the lead. But man that thing got up there. we normally just turn it up to get the lead melted and back to middle of the road or so. Great Job! Thanks for your contribution! That's a big help in knowing..... And thanks for your generous offer. Looking forward to Having One of Johnny's fine, Fancy Gadgets! thanks again!

[@Thorsaxe777]

I'm just glad that you weren't injured. That is a awesome offer of Johnny. Dave.

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

I ordered the extra parts I needed. Hopefully I'll have it done and shipped off to you in about a week.

[@preachersdayoff]

That's crazy! I've been thinking about bullet casting and I'm trying to learn all I can before I buy the stuff. This really helps because I would never have thought a Lee pot could get that hot. I'll never walk away from one now.

[@preachersdayoff]

Thanks, will do

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Thanks for doing this - That glow is very bright red at night...and actually very alarming. Your 1300+ doesn't need night to glow. Once lead melts, the temp can climb up to over 3000 degrees F. That's why I've often told ingot casters to avoid just cooking their lead - burns the tin and antimony out of it. I would have guessed that the lead in the Lee pot could easily get to 900 degrees. Really good video for all casters to see...

[@DimaProk]

3000 degrees with 700 watt pot? Not possible, you are talking about liquid steel temps. I am very surprised it teached 1350F but I question that accuracy. It's past aluminum melting point and yet his aluminum housing around heating element wasn't melted. How do you explain that?

[@CoachKalu]

​@@DimaProk Because it is lined with steel, and steel has a higher melting point.

[@DimaProk]

​@@CoachKalu Lee steel pot liner is more like a glorified tin can! And anyone who tried melting aluminum in a tin can will tell you that you might get one melting out of it and it won't last. I had Lee pot burn through on me because of too much heat. I had it insulated with Kaowool and temperature even on lowest thermostat setting would creep up to 850F (I was using PID for a 2nd pot). Those glowing hot elements are sitting right on it and it just not designed to take that kind of heat . The surrounding structure is aluminum and aluminum melting point is 1221F. Aluminum doesn't even have to get to the melting point, you can heat up a steel bar and long before it melts it will become soft as spaghetti! Talking about temps climbing to 3000F is nonsense! Try melting aluminum in it and see how far you'll get and if your pot will survive.

[@allenarneson4349]

Hey Johnny, what I think you did was create Lead Oxide or PbO (the red stuff on top). Heating lead to 600degC or 1112degF in air creates Lead Oxide according to my old chemistry book. You exceeded that temp by a few hundred degrees. I don't know how "pure" your lead was, but as someone else stated any Tin, Atimony, Zinc or other metals in the lead were cooked out. The remaining lead would be really soft.

[@martylinda5639]

I believe this is exactly correct!

[@MrCharley201]

WOW. I would have thought the pot would have shut off at around 1000. I was amazed at Elvis ammo's video, glad he wasn't hurt.

[@HammeringHank100]

Loved your video. Never thought the pot would hold up. Hank

[@danielleroberts8964]

Great video! I made a lid for my 4-20 pot which holds my thermometer. I start it and or add ingots on high, then I run it on 3 +- a little.

[@CmaxArms]

Hi, new sub here...Elvis sent me! Wow, very cool PID controller, it is very responsive.......Thanks for making one for Elvis, he works hard on improving our reloading experience!

[@vdog4799]

I Do appreciate the pushing of the envelope you do for the rest of us to learn from Elvis.Ive learned a lot from your videos and I thank you for putting it all out there

[@nickl1682]

When I seen Elvis ammo video . I thought of your control module . But he needed a really hot pot . Nice video .

[@DG2244]

Elvis sent us over to watch this. Nice video.

[@GunFunZS]

I melted zinc with one without using a fancy PID. It took a long time, and zinc causes everything to stick due to reactivity. Also it will dissolve aluminum molds.

[@evadevries2952]

Good to have you back

[@UrbanArmed]

Pretty freaking interesting for sure.. seems crazy that it can get that hot. wow.

[@cgirl111]

Subscribed, I didn't know you existed but I like the style. Elvis sent me over. That said I'm pretty sure the volume of the lead won't effect how hot it gets, just the time to reach maximum. The only difference might be increased heat loss due to the increased surface area of the lead column. In theory the pot should raise the temperature of the lead above ambient the same for all ambient temps. So in round numbers if you got a 1310 degree raise at 40 degrees ambient you should get around 1400 at 90 degrees ambient. Of course the heat loss increases as temperature increases so this is an approximation at best. Thanks for the video.

[@edsiemers3096]

Very interesting, but what you really tested was the bimetal switch they call a thermostat. I have three Lee pots, and have used my RCBS lead thermometer to find the "sweet" spot adjustment for the heat control. All three pots surprised me as they maintain the temperature within 15 to 20 degrees, until I start casting and drawing down the lead level.

[@unclejim2330]

Crazy, those pots need a thermostat . Good vid.

[@Thorsaxe777]

Yes they do..

[@Thorsaxe777]

Johnny that was a great Demonstration. We have talked about the PID controllers before. Here's an Idea, Maybe you should go into the PID controller business, I'm sure that you could sell them because of what you just demonstrated. I like the idea that your $60 Lee furnace won't burn itself up if you use a Pid and your heat control stays consistent thus Making better quality castings and as a side benefit Your Lee furnace will last longer, Maybe never burning out.. Dave

[@gascheck8151]

I did the same experiment a long while back with the same results. I have an excellent lead thermometer and I thought it was broke. Apparently not. Wild high heat numbers. I ordered a thermal laser thermometer from Amazon. Will see if that works out.

[@arentol7]

This kind of thing is contributing to why I am building a casting worktable with an a steel sheet metal top (it will be overlaid on a wood base). It's not actually necessary, but it's also not hard to do, and isn't very expensive either for the small table I need. So why not?

[@skepticalshooter3499]

Thanks for the video Johnny, but don't chuck that "burned lead". If anything, you just purified it closer to its elemental state. The far away, long dead star that forged those Pb atoms was exponentially hotter than your Lee pot, Sir!

[@archangel20031]

Aluminum alloys can melt anywhere from 860˚ to 1250˚ with pure Aluminum melting at 1200˚ Also, Rotometals sells the Lee melting pots for melting most low temp alloys but only mention not using Zinc as it dissolves steel alloys, but Tin or Bismuth should be ok.

[@OTHumbo]

I use lids on my RCBS lead pots, I wonder how hot the Lee will get if you put a lid on it. I guess 1400+ degrees, which is crazy.

[@shotdog4237]

did mine to! i could see it going thru the pot, but that stuff was hot enough to go thru the plate, i couldn't believe that and i'am a welder!!

[@shotdog4237]

it must have been the heating element burnt in to and shorting in the zinc got really hot! zinc has the tendency to kinda pop or explode if it gets to hot, but it was still pretty amazing.

[@tyemiller6204]

Wow, I know this is 7 years ago….but still valid today in 2024…..thank you for following up with Elvis Ammo experience….

[@kayeszymanski6945]

interesting video Johnny. You're a good guy for hooking up belvis keep up the good work!

[@kirkboswell2575]

Hello Johnny. I'm here at Elvis's suggestion. I'd seen your channel on a subject search, but hadn't stopped by. Good work there. The red glow is going to be mostly related to the actual heat. Infra red, and etc, combined with the oxidation of the slag. (similar to a forge) You should be able to use the lead again, but you would have to purify it again with all appropriate fluxing. I'm actually surprised that the bottom of the pot didn't sag. I think that the melting point of aluminum is 1227F. Don't know exactly, just always said "close to 1300F". Either way, that pot was hot enough that I was surprised that it held up. Again, good work. And yes, the failure was because of zinc reacting with the steel. I also think, though it hasn't been mentioned, that once the zinc got through the steel, it set up an arc (like a welding arc) that heated things up even further, and that this explains why it melted through the base so quickly. Thanks for your time and effort with this. Until next time......

[@shotdog4237]

kirt, zinc doesn't react to steel it will stick to steel the most that should have happened to the pot was, it got galvanized

[@kirkboswell2575]

shotdog - Not quite. I had forgotten about it and had to refresh my memory, but zinc is known to create a process called "galvanic corrosion". This occurs between zinc and some metals such as steel. If putting together galvanized pipe to galvanized pipe, no problem, but if putting galvanized pipe together with regular pipe, the process is initiated and the regular pipe starts corroding. It's an "electrochemical" reaction - similar to what happens in a car battery. Add to this natural reaction of zinc the electrical heating element and the process is accelerated a hundred fold. Once the zinc made it through the steel, it had an open electrical circuit to create what would amount to a welders arc. Bingo! instant heat of several thousand degrees, and it would melt most anything in its way. Which is exactly what appears to have happened with Elvis's zinc experiments.

[@shotdog4237]

kirt, i don't think so, i deal with galvanized and steel pipe all the time, just grind the zinc off and weld the two together, we weld stainless to galvanized pipe the same way, and the heating element in the furnace is probably the same type element you would find in a stove or a hot water tank, you should be able to set the zinc right on top of the element and melt it, if it's a hot enough element, it's a pretty simple design.

[@kirkboswell2575]

shotdog - I know that it sounds odd, but it's real. When welding you grind off or burn off the zinc galvanizing, thus breaking the "circuit. The galvanizing process requires completely clean metal. This is accomplished by acid and alkaline "baths" of the metal to be galvanized. Once heated up to 850F the metal is fluxed to prevent any oxidation and dipped in liquid zinc. Process done. BUT, IF ANY PORTION of the metal had a "dirty spot", that spot will initiate the galvanic corrosion effect. Check it out. Look it up. Scratch your head like I did when I was a kid. But it's a real effect, and does occur, and it fits this situation "to a T".

[@shotdog4237]

kirk, i still disagree, the corrosion effect would be over time and in the presence of oxygen and some sort of water or moisture, this was in the bottom of the pot with molten zinc in it, something burnt a hole in the bottom of the pot, the zinc wouldn't have done that, the melting point of the pot is at least three times that of zinc (750-780) i still think the heating element is the colprat

[@2olvets443]

I understand thiss was a few years ago but, one would think Lee would gave it where it does not go over 800. It has been said good pour temp is between 725 to 800, for fishing lures anyway. And with the melting temp of lead being what 640 I think it is just makes sense.

[@archangel20031]

You can use it to melt Zinc, but the service life is freakishly short as it dissolves Iron based alloys, so I'd replace the internal pot liner after one long days worth of casting of Zinc. Lee sells the 4-20 replacement pot liners for $17, the valve rod is $3, the valve spout is $3.50 so add $23.50 + shipping to the cost of casting your CUSTOM MADE light weight, high velocity Zinc bullets for the day, just don't heat it above the melting temp too much as I'm sure the heat helps dissolving things.

[@CassiePerreault]

I can't believe Lee would save a dollar and not put a thermal overload into the circuitry.

[@johnburke8944]

Casting videos to come soon or just a small test in between different videos

[@charlesirby9222]

A B I G T H A N K S Johnny for doing this follow up on Elvis's mishap . . . I am astounded! I subscribed to your channel and gave you no. 126 'thumbs up!' . . . charlie

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

Thanks, Charlie! Glad to have you around.

[@Tradesman1156]

I wouldn't throw it away! It's close to pure lead!

[@nrainfidelforlife]

Wow!!!!!! I'm floored!!!!

[@TheZerplex]

Bro. You made lava. Craaaaaazy

[@archersfriend]

Wonder why Galvanized Pipe does not eat it's self up?

[@JeffinTD]

That was crazy. I wonder if the crust was oxidized tin

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

ZINC MELTS STEEL BEAMS!!!!!!!!! infowars.com

[@SippyCup_Official]

THEYRE TURNING OUR WATER TO MAKE THE KIDS GAY!!!!!! infowars.com

[@mileswhitener4173]

Be extra careful about fumes when heating lead that hot!

[@kellylunceford5625]

I am to reloading and casting bullets why would you think the lead would be no good at reaching high temperatures?

[@shahpourahmadi1338]

I am shocked to find out that the lowest setting on my new 10lb lee pot is 850 F. How am I suppose to cast bullets at 750?

[@terrinewman7390]

Johnny when the pot hit about 650 what is the dial set at? and do you ever play with muzzle loaders??

[@sahmadi1000]

Please Please Please. where can i get a plug and play PID? everywhere I look, they say how to make one. I need one that is ready made. Thanks

[@codystevens1233]

where can i get a complete PID like yours? id even be willing to build one but i cant find the prefab box

[@357bullfrog]

You think that at a lower temp that crusty stuff stays in the alloy and makes bullets perform different ?

[@hfroehli]

Lead becomes unstable under the following conditions : if heated to decomposition (over 500 C/932 F). There is release of oxygen and emission of toxic fumes of lead. Of course as lead casters, we are aware of these toxic fumes. Please be careful everyone and make sure you have the proper PPE.

[@hfroehli]

As a side note, these toxic fumes are odorless and do not produce any smoke.

[@kellylunceford5625]

I am new to casting bullets why would you think it would ruin the lead after getting that hot? Just wondering

[@Kettenhund75]

Hey Johnny, how hot does the upright case get on your lee 4 20 get when casting? The one that houses the rheostat.

[@l.a.3887]

What kind of steel is the pot itself

[@johncunningham9016]

I never run my Lee pot at more than 50%. Otherwise, it fries my alloy. I almost always use linotype for .300 Blackout supersonic.

[@davidunderwood3605]

All you did was crystalize out the antimony and tin which oxidized in the oxygen nitrogen atmosphere. And it Clearly state's in the operating instrutions to keep your pot full. That lead was far more pure when you were done and a whole lot softer. Antimony stays bound to lead untill the higher temps are reached. If there was no antimony present to start with then you were releasing other metals present that stay bound untill their melting temps are met. You'll find wheel weights have a lot of junk metals in them. Not just tin and antimony. I used to work in a foundry and you would probly be amazed at what goes into cast iron.

[@truebornsonofliberty554]

Yeah, Lee could have some lawsuits on their hands if they've had accusations of runaway pots.

[@machinegreen1413]

Looks like my Chili.

[@jreg0028]

Hey Johnny how much did that unit cost you to make? I think it's called a pid I could be wrong.

[@psykoklown874]

You can buy the electronics on eBay for under $30. I just gutted a junk PC power supply to build mine in.

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

Cost will vary from $30-$100 depending on what you need to buy versus what you can scrounge. Here is my video on it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/d5jMqX2be5Wpe7c

[@thebaddest2562]

ive just found out that fm freedom munisions cases are brass plated steel so be careful i made a short video if ur interested like 30 sec showing they are magnetic and a 14 sec showing rusted ones

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

Solid info. Link for the lazy: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eGbbp5Voiaygp68

[@thomasphillips1068]

the baddest Did you order American Steel from them or were those from the general purpose?

[@thebaddest2562]

no its all picked up brass my point is take a magnet through you brass to get them out because noone ever talks about it if you dobt buy freedom munitions u wouldnt know.

[@timsturgill3617]

How much would you charge me to make me a PID UNIT

[@gorillamotors]

What model PID controller is that?

[@robmeglaughlin325]

you need to send one to Elvis, before he gets hurt.

[@ocean374]

Wow that's crazy

[@shotdog4237]

jrb, see how much harder that lead is compared to your regular lead.

[@jima28080]

The antimony was all crusted up on the surface, so the lead he poured into the ingot molds would be very soft. It was basically back to pure lead.

[@barneymerrill3188]

How much would a PID like yours cost?🤔👍

[@rickmiller8931]

Today prices 3/19/22 about 80$ Johnny has a couple videos on how to build and parts list.

[@1stFlyingeagle]

What I did with my spoon was drilled some small holes down the middle so that when I dipped in and scooped. Liquid lead drains back into the pot, and the crap stays in the spoon,

[@gascheck8151]

I did the same thing. You want to keep as much tin, antimony in the mix as possible. You do not want to scoop it out.

[@jasonkrohn5416]

Yep yep aAluminum around 1100. It safe to say Lee probably didn’t intend for their customers to try to melt anything but lead in it . 😂

[@tires2burn]

Looks like lava in that pot.

[@aragoriluvatar5362]

Lee 4-20 Casting Furnace

[@Burtsc]

Old video, but dang!

[@shahpourahmadi1338]

I bought a 10lb lee pot. I measured the lowest setting it is 850F. A pot without a real temp control is junk.

[@trevorfout4759]

moral of the story dont leave the pot on high lol turn it down a little looks like elvis may have just melted her down

[@machinegreen1413]

Damn.

[@peterlepore2726]

the coils dont last long replaced a few

[@BigMeany]

I wonder if you melted everything out of the lead you might have pure PB

[@shotdog4237]

be careful if you decide to try that, the fumes are probably toxic as hell,it will probably give off this white powder looking stuff like zinc and it's poisoning to all kinds of body organs!!!

[@Nitro-SmK]

@@shotdog4237 Zinc isn't poisonous.

[@firstin6264]

He must’ve missed the part in the instructions that says no zinc. He would have known that if he had read, and followed the instructions.

[@jpthomason]

I bet if you let it run overnight it gets hot enough to give birth to a star.

[@sierraecho884]

Wow you can melt aluminium with it.

[@Thorsaxe777]

I hope you didn't screw your furnace up by demonstrating this Johnny. They can only take so much.

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

I think it will be ok. If not, at least they're cheap to replace!

[@elvisammo]

Thanks for taking the risk!

[@shanerhodes925]

Huh that's crazy! that thu,g should,t get that hot for any reason

[@mckwilly]

Diy magma

[@kainhall]

hum....ive had my oven element get some food on it (i think).....and the bitch melted a half inch section and then started arcing... was exciting....bright blue welding arc looking thing... but, maybe the element burnt out....and arced...and that melted the metal. idk...im no chemistry expert....just high school chem

[@gunsnwater2668]

You made pure lead and then threw it out. Muzzle loader. Alloy it back for modern. Don’t chuck it.

[@1stFlyingeagle]

So what temp do you cast at?

[@ballsyau1974]

Looks like I'm building a pid controller. That's crazy