Lead Hardness FAQs & How to Mix Bullet Alloys For Hardness

[@punchrolo]

Thank you very much for responding. I will feel a little more comfortable reloading the 460 S&W magnum. Once again thank you for all the educational videos you have on KZbin

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

punchrolo 2 - If loaded to full magnum performance, the 460 needs Lyman #2 alloy or pure linotype. Water quenching out of the mold would be a good idea. (Lyman #2 + GCs for hollow point bullets) Good reloadin' to ya, FC Steve

[@killer-ir8mn]

Thanks for this finger nail test. I use wheel weighs Thai I melt the metal clips and impurities out .then pour into ingot's. Then I mix 9 pounds of w.w lead with one pound of pure tin .flux the melt with pine sawdust and water drop my cast bullets. That's just what works good for me. 38/357 30/30.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

killer 65 - Wheel weights all by themselves are great for up to light magnum pistol. With the extra tin, you should be good for magnum pistol, plus gain the added flow from the tin to fill out your bullets... Continued good castin' to ya, FC

[@emjartan45acp]

I must have watched this video a dozen times over the years.....but i keep coming back for the information every time I need to cast for a specific Velocity. Although I definitely would recommend the Lee hardness tester. Just to know the hardness of the alloys we are mixing as a baseline...its spot on all the time with the alloy Calculator. I pray this video never gets removed...🙏 ps. With the right BHN & PowderCoating i have NEVER had any leading...Amazing.

[@talonsd7131]

Thats actually a question Ive had, Is it even particularly critical how hard the bullets are, if you powder coat?

[@jolebole-yt]

@@talonsd7131depends what you want the bullet to do. Are you using it for plinking paper or hunting? The powder coat will prevent leading even if the bullet is softer, but it will perform differently in animal tissue with different hardness. Lead casting books talk about this matter.

[@edstimator1]

So I have to ask, what does powder coating do to the hardness equation on a practical level? Does it increase the ability of the bullet to withstand deformity or disintegration and if so to what degree and how does that translate to real world , ie, hunting situations?? Pehaps an entire video on that subject would be interesting.

[@danoneill2846]

Many Thanks !

[@jima28080]

Good stuff as usual FC45LC. The thumbnail don't lie... My range scrap runs a little closer to pure lead than yours because most of it comes from jacketed bullets. I typically run it 50-50 with clip on wheel weight lead plus a small amount of tin for most of my pistol shooting. Rotometals is a great resource for us casters when we need to harden things up a bit.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

jima28080 - Thanks for making that point - we get all kinds of lead fired at our range including lots of cast bullets so there's where the tin and antimony comes from in my particular source of range scrap...Have a great day...

[@ninjaswordtothehead]

How many years of experience before I calibrate my fingernail like yours? Love your videos, I always learn so much.

[@aussief5016]

great video. ill have to do the maths on your mixes to see if i can work out the percentages going from pure lead with a purchasable hard alloy. some of us cant get range scrap and pure lead is the only way to start.

[@joedirt7604]

Thank you.

[@Passportbro33Mark2]

Wouldn’t powder coating eliminate the lead issue altogether?

[@yojimbo05]

What is the correct BNH if your shooting 45acp out of a 1911. We are talking about around 700-850+. What is the proper mix and can you help me with this please.

[@sethjensen54]

Great video

[@garyshaffer68]

The drafting pencil test works good and cheap.

[@brianlee6849]

What would 20 to 1 lead to tin be? A 45/70 match shooter says it perfect and he lets it cool in a dry pan. Also would this mushroom? Do you have different standards for a hunting bullets? Thanks

[@TheRIFLEMAN243]

Hey Fortune Cookie 45LC!! I casted and reloaded about 300 255gr. .452 for my 45 long colt Vaquero 4 3/4" barrel I just got 2 weeks ago and have them moving about 700-750 fps. and found several bullets in and around the dirt pile I was target shooting at and they all looked as if they were barely dented, so I'm using nothing but wheel weights with the occasional soft stick on wheel weights mixed in with the clip on weights, do you think they could be too hard for what I'm doing?? I'm not interested in doing anything spectacular with this pistol or the loads for it, that's what my 44 mag and 357 etc. Is for.... thanks!!

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

TheRIFLEMAN308- not a problem - Wheel weights are some of the finest lead alloys I have ever used for ANY shooting. You are probably just a bit more hardness than you need, but not so hard that the bullets are not obturating your barrel. If you like, you can add more of the stick on (pure lead) to your wheel weight mix and still be fine - will save some of your clip on weights for future use. Or just use that same alloy for your more stoked 44s and 357s - will be fine there for sure...Can't go wrong using wheel weights for 45LC - I do like my range scrap, though because of the zero cost....Best Regards

[@metallicrock5946]

you can drive BH bullets of 16 to 2600fps is what my lead bullet maker states and i tried these speeds with no leading and i been shooting thousands of rounds at these speeds for the last 2 years.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

+Lure Smith - Sounds like you are shooting a 223/5.56. When Elmer Keith did his magnum pistol work back in the 30s, 40s and 50s, he routinely used 1 in 20 alloy - That's 5% tin BHN like 10-11. Even though we consider that way too soft for magnum pistol, he didn't lead his barrels and got superb accuracy. He would not have settled for less performance than that. The key to his non leading shooting was the bullets were fitted to his guns. .001" over chamber throats was fine for him and no leading resulted. Bullet fit to gun is much more important than hardness of bullet for leading prevention. Now problem is that plain lead bullets cast hard can be driven to higher velocities, but the limit occurs when plain lead bullets are driven to the point of them stripping off the rifling. That was the problem during the 1895-1900 time frame when smokeless powder first came into being and rifle makers found the only way they could take advantage of the progressive smokeless powder was to jacket the lead bullets with copper-nickel alloys (guilding metal) and design spitzer bullets to take advantage of the velocity. Jacketed bullet technology went on with that to the present day. If cast lead bullets could be shot at full velocity 30 cal milsurps there would never have been a need to develop jacketed bullets. I've heard of some shooters being able to get 2200 fps using pure linotype, but those bullets are way to brittle for hunting. Continued success to you and you should put that on video so others including myself can learn the secrets of 2600 fps with cast bullets.... Best Regards -- FC

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

+md80 captain - yes, but coating bullets with jackets other than copper alloy is not new - molys, nylons, composites have been tried and they are not mainstream today. PC is still in its infancy (about 10 years). Even the molys on rifle bullets were over the copper jackets. Problem with high vel is to keep the bullet from stripping off the rifling, to "take" the rifling so to speak. Until it can be demonstrated that a soft lead PC bullet can take the rifling reliably, PC for high vel is still unsubstantiated. Have you seen any videos of PC rifle shooters getting sub MOA with 2800-3000fps velocity at distance? If this is not demonstrated, I will be keeping my PC for 30/30 and 45/70 class of rifles only... And I have no desire to PC for 2900 - 3000 fps 223/5/56 anyway as bulk jacketed FMJs with MOA accuracy and functioning are plenty cheap and available at this time (would be different if that changed). No need to improve on that. Best Regards...FC

[@charlesirby9222]

+Lure Smith "You want the correct DOPE, join the 'Cast Boolits Forum' get it all from the guys who pioneer these new concepts…get the facts and leave speculation to everyone else."

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

+Charles Irby -- No speculation really. We bullet casters are a huge bunch with a subset of the upper technical echelons in Cast Boolits who push the envelope on stuff. FortuneCookie Policy - No one this side of Glory has all the answers, but together we have a lot of 'em. Most who look into bullet casting only want safe, good, reliable, accurate and cheap cast bullets to do 90+% of our shooting. There is much we can learn from each other, as well as from Cast Boolits, as well as the experienced hunters and benchrest shooters and competitive shooters out there. Shooters are smart enough to go to any source available to them and use what will work for them and discard what has no value or has negative value. That's why I have the personal preference to never ask anyone to subscribe or like or share anything ever...the shooters of the world are very capable of deciding for themselves what has value for them. Yes, they definitely should check out Cast Boolits - great bunch over there. But none of us, in good conscience, can traffic in speculation without using the terms probably or perhaps, or there are reports of...However, I can attest to the excellence of the Perazzi shotgun without having ever owned one, or the effectiveness of the Weatherby Mark 5 in 300 Weatherby Magnum without ever having fired one. I do not regard such as speculation. As for facts, I've learned early on that nothing can be definitively proven. How do we know that Christopher Columbus discovered America? There were others who just never bothered to say anything. How do we know for sure that Neil Armstrong was the first man to set foot on the moon? It could have been done in a studio. Was Sandy Hook a hoax? Facts and speculation, indeed...We are all friends in the shooting sports...let the information flow freely and everyone be of good conscience. Happy Holidays to ya, FC

[@MrMikepili]

So... if powder coating prevents leading, do I need to worry about hardness in riffle rounds?

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

mike pili - With powder coating , we don't have to be concerned about hardness anymore with handguns (with the exception of the real big blasters. But with rifles, the change over from cast bullets to jacketed came when the cast bullets could no longer hold the rifling. It has not been shown that powder coating allows bullets to keep from stripping off the rifling. No leading is a good thing, but bullet stabilization is still needed to hit at distance. Have you seen a lot of targets shot with powder coated rifle bullets?? We have seen a lot of targets shot with jacketed though - all those tiny groups. Have a great day, FC

[@hectorgonzalez7416]

What about of in doing ar15 rounds

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

hector gonzalez - For AR15 rounds, I'd cast the bullets with Lyman #2 alloy or equivalent (90% lead 5% tin 5% antimony) or even sweeten it a bit with added linotype (84% lead 12% antimony 4% tin) say 1 to 1 mix. Then powder coat the bullets and gas check 'em. Then shoot them working up loads towards maximum stopping when accuracy degrades. Best to ya, FC

[@hectorgonzalez7416]

FortuneCookie45LC ok thank u if I powder coat do I still need to but a gas check?

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

hector gonzalez - For handgun shooting, gas checks are not needed - you can still put them on if you wish or if the bullets shoot more accurately. For rifle I'd recommend you put the gas checks on if the bullet is designed for them. Good reloadin' to ya, FC

[@hectorgonzalez7416]

FortuneCookie45LC ok thanks for the help

[@KE0ZCO]

You are a great teacher Fortune Cookie. Please keep it going!!

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Mickey Mac - Thanks for the good word…Not really trying to teach, though, because all of you out there either need a starting point, or some additional data to add to what you already have, or you might just like to see how others do the things you do (there certainly is room for a lot of personal preference and style in bullet casting) -- It's all OK and we grow together… Best Regards FC45LC

[@jimhelton5731]

Another great video. Thank you. You are a wealth of knowledge to a new caster.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

James Helton - Appreciate the good word and for you taking the time to post it…Best Regards

[@voodoo304]

Wow! That was excellent! Thank you very much for taking the time to answer all of my questions. You are a wealth of knowledge. Great vid. Thanks again!

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

voodoo304-And Thank You for your great questions - it gave me a chance to put it down in video form. And the topic isn't as glamorous as actual shooting, but other viewers are finding it interesting. Best Regards

[@joemolf3894]

😮great video once lead is mixed is there a way to get it back to pure lead state

[@hornetscales8274]

Seems like something useful I could use. Glad to see you passing this along where we can find it.

[@b1gdaddy317]

I again have to disagree i shoot BHN 10-12 in everything from 700-1500 FPS from 380 to 44mag, Was just shooting today range scrap cast 9mm BHN 10 at 1150FPS or 1350 out of a carbine with no leading and great accuracy. Fit is key. I can shoot Pure lead from a 45acp with again 0 issues at 750FPS.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

b1gdaddy317- Thank you for your great comment. You will find that we have no disagreement. It's like Elmer Keith shot a lot of his hell-for-leather magnums with 1-30 lead alloy. He never even mentioned any leading problems. I'm glad that you find great success with your well fitted bullet/gun combos - no disagreement with you or I on critical importance of bullet fit. We can tailor our bullet hardness accordingly and find that we are uniformly shooting bullets harder than we need (I find myself, with excellent joy, that my plain range scrap at BHN 12 [water quench and bullet aging] is easily actually good for +P- I really don't have to do much mixing at all) But between you and me, I just like my magnum bullets to be BHN 18 because some day, I might just need those slugs to crash through a moose or both sides of a car or some other hellacious thing…You are speaking as an experienced caster, we've got to give the newer guys and gals "the book" info, and they will find out for themselves that there is more latitude in bullet alloys than they suspected…Best Regards...

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

+b1gdaddy317 - You are in the same league as Elmer Keith who used 1-20 alloy to make his magnum bullets. Who is going to tell E:lmer that his alloy was too soft? Nobody this side of Glory for sure...That's not a bad league to be in, BTW... :FC

[@russhayes4882]

I really appreciate all you give us with your years of experience casting and shooting !

[@emandejnozka1369]

Thanks! I just purchased a Lee hardness tester. Nice little unit. However, with my old eyes and shaky hands, the microscope scale is hard to hold still enough to read (76 yrs old). HAW! Your thumbnail scratch test is still the best for me!

[@williampollock1274]

Hey Steve I cast and shoot full power .44 magnum at about 1350 fps with 2400 powder at BHN around 11-12 with no leading what so ever. I think bullet fit is more important than hardness but maybe not it just seems that's what I have noticed over the years.

[@pete1342]

That's been my experience as well. I use Lyman #2 alloy, which as far as I know is about 15 to 16 Brinnell, and have never seen the need for anything harder.

[@FranksAFreeman-pe6oq]

I believe I’ve found over a hundred pounds of Linotype (in printing bar form). I’ve only purchased twenty pounds so far and would like to know for sure that it’s the real deal before I buy any more. It is for the most part thin bars 4”-5” in length and most are about 1/8” thick. Some are only 1/8” thick at the top part (where the letters are) and the bottom part tapers down thinner with ribs spaced approx 1” apart. I melted some of it down this evening and it starts to melt at 450*, but is still a little sludgy. It is pretty well completely melted at 525*. I melted a few pounds of it to further verify it’s Linotype. Here’s the part I’m unsure of. If a 1/8” bar of pure lead were bent/flexed it would do so without breaking or snapping in half. The bars that I brought home yesterday(with writing on them and some that still have ink on them) will snap if you try to bend them at all. They are very hard and pretty much will not flex or bend like pure lead. The fact that they are almost brittle is what has me wondering. Understandably, they wouldn’t be as soft as pure lead, but should they snap in half when trying to bend them? Does that sound like how the Linotype you have had your hands on would react to bending? Just so you know, I’ve been casting for low velocity pistol loads (45acp, 38special, 9mm) for about two years now, but with none of my lead exceeding the hardness of wheel weights. I had never even seen a piece of Linotype in person before yesterday, if in fact that is what I’ve found. I also used my lead pencil set and could not put a scratch in the bars I melted down until I worked my way down to an “H” pencil, which according to the chart should put it at 20-22 bhn. So, would you believe this is Linotype or is there any possibility of thin bars with writing on them being anything else? Thank you in advance for your help

[@l.a.3887]

Very informative I appreciate your teachings on bullet casting and hardness testing

[@snoman003]

Wish I had seen this a few years ago as it would have given me a starting point. After much trial and error and much learning, I came to the conclusion that my Shiloh Sharps 45-110 running right around 1400 ish fps works best at BHN 13 and NO LEADING at all. Any faster than that results in hours of lead removal. BTW, NO ONE needs to buy an expensive hardness tester or use the somewhat ambiguous "thumbnail test" ( no offence) but a good set of staedtler pencil works great. Do a bit of research on how the pencil helps determine hardness and put a written reference scale inside the pencil set cover for reference and it will work very well at low cost. This allows you to get a reasonably accurate assessment of hardness at low cost.

[@pareloader5989]

45 LC!!!! I need your help. I am a little confused about the difference’s in antimony, super hard and linotype. I have about 30 pounds of pure lead. I am not sure how and what to mix with it.

[@gregoryschmitz2131]

What should be added is Black Powder velocity, Hornady lead balls are B-5 and those velocities can be into the 800-1100 fps. The question is why can those be so soft?

[@chrislettenmaier6822]

You stated pure lead is 8.6 BHN hardness but everything that I have found is pure lead is 5 BNH. Where are you getting your information about pure lead being 8.6?

[@roblathrop6707]

How do I make cast bullets from known hardness lead. U said tin is needed to make casting flow. How much tin? I have range at 12 bhn. I bought super hard and tin from rotometals. How much of each to make 15 bhn and 18 bhn?

[@plop55]

When you get up into the 20's for Brinell hardness, you're pretty much running Linotype alloy.

[@jamesendsley2611]

I usually get 10 Puritan and mix it in with my pure lead to make it hard enough to shoot from my 45s in my rifle rounds

[@colsoncustoms8994]

This video was exactly what I was looking for. Alright, I plan on getting a 454 Casull lever action rifle and have it set up to run heavy (400+ grains if I can get the c.o.a.l / seating to work) subsonic loads at about 1,000 fps. If the goal was to have the most terminal performance, how would that be best achieved? Ideally, the round would mushroom some and dump all of it's energy quickly instead of over penetrating. You said 15-16 hardness was acceptable for around 900 fps, but how well would that deform at those speeds? Not sure if pure lead could be powder coated or maybe something like 30-1 or 40-1 with a coating. Or would too soft of a bullet just splatter upon impact? Or is it having a hollow point more or a factor than the type lead used? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

[@AndrewCox-y4l]

What about a .243 projectile @ 2100 fps

[@beastmode2990]

I will get a 9mm aea air rifle and i want to know will it damage the barrel if i harden the lead? Will it group better or its better to just stick to cast lead slugs

[@silvergunsmoke494]

I’m starting out from pure lead. Do you have a formula for that?

[@airgunwarriors7491]

Hello FCLC45, today's session using the 99% pure lead with 1% tin content worked really well in reference to casting and swaging! The first time I cast and swaged with this 99%/1%...was the first time I ever cast and swaged, so the results were not that good at all. I've come to realize that the more I cast and swage, the better the results are.:-) For me, its nice to know that developing a skill to produce a better end result is required for this kit I'm using, as it would be to boring if it was just a matter of banging away at something to get the best results each and every time! Thanks again for all of your help! My plan is to cast and swage around 500-rounds tomorrow, grab a handful to apply the 45-45-10 to and then go do some shooting! Respectfully, agw.

[@michaeldickerson873]

Hey Steve, is the third bullet to the right a 45ACP SWC?

[@kennsuhnksu6270]

master, do you has a sort kind of table of dos and donts? would you share with us?

[@stuartmarkman769]

Should I use gas checks on all my lead reloads or is there a certain time too use them?

[@mikerussell6212]

Does bullet hardness have anything to do with bullet weight?

[@loboel264mag7]

Lead drafting pencils can also be used to test lead hardness.

[@Scott-YouTubeAddict]

I still love this video however I’m really struggling to mix antimony with clean premelted ingots of wheel weight lead (10bhn) to make 24 bhn but can't seem to get above 15. The antimony seems to oxidise before it melts into the lead. I am using candle-wax as a flux and have tried submerging the antimony in the melted lead in a LEE melting pot for 30+ minutes at 350 degrees Celsius (650 Fahrenheit) but it still just leaves a grainy substance on the surface like it’s not actually melted / dissolved properly. I've also tried a direct flame into a cast iron pot but that only melts the lead and oxidises the antimony. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. A video showing your process of creating 20+ bhn would be even better because I can't seem to find any on KZbin.

[@TheExplosiveGuy]

Pure Antimony melts at something like 1100° F, it's very difficult to alloy together with lead unless you have a _very_ hot pot. Ideally, you want to melt it together under an inert gas like argon in a furnace or kiln to reduce oxidation and get up to higher temps. It is much easier to just buy pre-alloyed lead from something like Rotometals or ebay, I actually just bought 20 pounds of 30/70 from Rotometals, 20lbs is enough to harden about 300 pounds of pure lead with the addition of a couple pounds of zinc. Once it is alloyed the melting temperature is much lower, which is why the vast majority of casters buy pre-alloyed bars, the equipment needed to alloy pure Antimony isn't worth the cost unless you're producing it commercially.

[@Ford360CID]

furtune cookie i just made my 1st utube video tonight, casting 9mm bullets with lee .358 105 gn 2 cavity mold.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

angelo soriano - Congratulations on your first video - and I know there are a lot more where this one came from - well done!!

[@robbiefortner6426]

Heya Brother, very nice video, great info, Thanks

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Robbie Fortner-And a good day to you, sir…thanks for the good word...

[@JAC8504]

where do I buy this alloy for mixing?

[@nathanhartlaub121]

FortuneCookie45LC, If you use a gas checks can you get them moving any faster with out worrying about leading up the barrel.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Nathan Hartlaub - Sorry on delay answering - somehow, missed seeing your comment and question - great question - I do most of my shooting with plain base bullet designs because they are good shooters and don't lead barrels even at magnum velocities. We really don't need gas checks for handgun bullets with exception of the real big 500 and 460, Linebaughs etc these days...But my advice is that if you choose to cast bullets designed for gas checks, then go ahead and put them on. You can shoot them at any velocity you wish including of course, the stoked magnums...And yes, the reason for gas checks is to prevent leading at higher velocities. The downside is that you increase costs and effort, but for some loads - you also get slight increase in accuracy as well. I use gas checks for my 310 grain Lee 44 bullets and 300 grains 45 Lee bullets because I do load those on the hotter side anyway... Best to ya...

[@3172bees]

So do you cut those bars or can you melt a section of it into the pot

[@moaartstore1219]

FC45LC, Great Info, thanks for putting this info out there.

[@TRprepper]

Thanks for the shout out, a friend told me they seen this video and said you mentioned me. Sorry I missed it when you put this out. Great info as always, I've learned a lot from your video's.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

***** That was a fun video to do, and your questions helped get that going...so thanks to you for that... Best Regards

[@andrewmusacchio5328]

Great video, going to save it for future reference

[@sneakybuffalo]

Hey Cookie, have you done or could you do a video on all the different bullet shapes for 45 LC. Looking to start casting but don't know what dies to get since there are so many shapes and sizes.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Spencer Horrell - OK - sounds like a good idea for a video...Have a great day...

[@sneakybuffalo]

Thanks man, awesome videos.

[@charlesirby9222]

@ 12:45 you say that mixing 2.5 # of Linotype with 15 # of Range Scrap you expect to get BHN 15…My lead calculator program (from Cast Boolits [070612-2.xls]) predicts your mix as follows… {{ .71% Sn, 2.57% Sb, 96.7% Pb…est / hardness= 11.2 BHN }} So if you have been depending on this for your light magnum loads, you have proved what Elmer Keith said over n over again…"don't need hard lead for magnum pistol pressures, need good barrel fit and good lube and plenty of it." Your second recipe of 2 # of Super Hard with 17.5 # of Range Scrap you expect 18 BHN…again the calculator figures different as follows… {{ 0 % Sn, 30%Sb, 70% Pb…est / hardness = 12.3 BHN }} If you join the Forum 'Cast Boolits' you may download the calculator at no charge. Also there are articles by Glen Fryxell there that discuss this exact subject, he has written numerous articles and even published a book, 'From Ingot to Target' also a free download. The Cast Boolits Forum has changed my entire approach on Smelting / Blending / Water Quenching / Lubing / Sizing in order to shoot 'Lead Free' in my different barrels / @ varying FPS and Pressures. I bought the Lee BHN tester and when I started using it to verify my various blends I was shocked to realize that like you…I was way off in my calculations.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

+Charles Irby --Thanks for this - There is quite a disparity from what BHN calculations should be and what winds up...plus, Elmer did prove his use of softer alloys with his shooting - good bullet/gun fit is primary for performance and no leading shooting. If you are from the CB forum, you guys are the heppest on cast bullets out there, bar none. Sometimes the stuff is so technical, I just say to myself, melt the lead, pour the bullets, scratch with fingernail and shoot 'em accordingly. I've never heard of the hardness calculator there, but it sounds most intriguing. The biggest disparity is on the hardness of pure lead, is it 5 or 8.6?? ...RotoMetals (I've done business with them for years buying their linotype ever since linotype disappeared from the local metal yards) has an equation that calcs the BHN using a formula on the bottom of their bullet metals front page BHN = 8.6 + (.29 X %Sn) + (.92 X % Sb) and I add 1 BHN for water quenching and 1 BHN for age hardening. The add ons are conservative. RotoMetals has been in the bullet alloy business for 75 years. I know the boys over at Cast Boolits are much more technical with everything - I haven't gone over there much because what I do works well in my guns over 40+ years of casting...it's good enough for me. Since doing YT a little over 3 years ago, I still surf a lot on shooting stuff on YT, but not much time to spend on forums... I don't use lead testers, because my fingernail test is what I go by...not scientific, but it's the way it was done back in Elmer and Skeeter's day. And now with powder coating, the BHN stuff is all up in the air. Happy Holidays to ya and all the others at Cast Boolits... FC

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

+Charles Irby -- Thanks for posting, Charles. I appreciate the time it took to post that comment because I know how much time those things take just answering comments. I've heard of that calculator and I haven't had occasion to use it... Instead, I've always gone with the RotoMetals formula (bottom of their home webpage) - the real disparity between the two is pure lead - is it 5 as many believe, or 8 as RM aspires? Whatever, since I've been doing business with RM for so long, plus they've been in the caster alloy business for 75 years, I figure their formula is OK to use... bottom line is that my leading issues are scanty to speak of so I'm happy - Water Quenching and Aging give me an extra 2 BHN, and I know that runs in conflict with what is on the fine CastBoolits site also...I've read a lot of Glen's work and it's good stuff...I've asked my brother-in-law who is a metallurgical engineer with Defense Department Clearance about what goes on with lead alloys and he says lead is not that complicated. - time devoted to lead alloys was a waste. He was too busy with alloys for nuclear submarine hulls and depleted uranium penetrators. ..back on track, .the lead controversies are what makes for interest after all... we can talk for hours whether in CastBoolits or the HLZ...Whatever heralds bullet casting and shooting of same is more than plain OK with me. I once tried to post in one of the forums and their requirements for admission seemed awkward - can't remember exactly what the problem was, but I couldn't post so haven't tried since...but do visit forums often when I'm not YouTubing which now keeps me very busy...Your use of the Lee Hardness Tester is courageous. From what I've seen of that tester, it is not necessarily repeatable in its determinations plus the results are subject to the interpretation of the dents and varies according to the operator. When casters are getting after quenched bullets in the BHN 26 - 30 zone, I'm just not encouraged to get that device. My fingernail works just fine. Best to ya, FC

[@cornfed4780]

Thank you sir, your videos have been very helpful. You just answered my question of casting standard velocity 9mm and 45 acp bullets , from lead ingots made from solely melted range scrap.

[@b.1z966]

@@FortuneCookie45LC And what about lead from wheel wheights?. For standard 9x19 mm? Thanks in advance, your video helped so much. I am new to reloading, need all the help i can get 😊🙃

[@taurushipointenthusiast1306]

Ok brother I am following you lead + hot gas=leading the barrel. Can I ask how about Gas Checks? will they prevent this or not? See I like the harder lead over the soft especially when I am casting Hollow Points. Soft lead Hollow points yes mushroom well.However Hard Lead mushrooms well and creates one BEAUTIFUL exit cavity..heeheheheheheh...

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Taurus/Hipoint Enthusiast - I see - Taurus for revolvers and Hipoint for autoloaders - not a bad way to go... Gas checks really serve no purpose for the huge portion of our handgun shooting...If copper GCs are bought, they are 4-5 cents each. But if tested and the GCs shoot better, then by all means, use the GCs. GCs for rifle cast bullet rifle shooting makes sense. Your harder cast HPs are good bullets... Best to ya, FC

[@taurushipointenthusiast1306]

Thanks I got to kicking it around with a few others no one was quite sure.

[@mikemull1478]

I have two places that I get my cast bullets and one says there are BN 20 and the other say that theres are 21. So there not that much difference in the two bullets, correct?

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

mike mull - Your suspicions are well regarded. There is no significant difference between 20-21 for us. Fit of bullet to the gun is the critical issue. 1 BHN can be had just by letting bullets sit for 2 weeks...Best to ya...

[@stephenalibozek1058]

Thank you you’re the best 👍👍

[@joe57788]

Goo 411, Thank you.. BUT how hard should the lead be for shooting out of a Glock .45 using their factory Poly barrel? Thank you

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

lawgiver1-AHA!! That's the $64,000 question that has no answer…We are 1) not supposed to shoot reloads in our Glock factory barrels and 2) not supposed to shoot lead bullets thru our Glock factory barrels. That having been said, the answer is BHN 16 (18 is not needed as Glocks feed very reliably - however, use a good auto pistol bullet like the Lee TL 230 RN with the little shoulder; use the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die with the barest little crimp possible) and medium speed powder like Unique or AA5 or Universal. Best Regards

[@joe57788]

FortuneCookie45LC Thank you for the fast answer. I use the same bullet and die you listed, however I use 5 gr. of bullseye.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

lawgiver1 There was a gunwriter years ago that used 5 grains of Bullseye/230 bullet. I forgot who it was, but he called the 5 grains "…a stiff tot of Bullseye". Have a great day...

[@donaldplank54]

I use ww to harden my lead

[@catherineharris4746]

Fkng outstanding!👍👍👍👍👍

[@goodwater2020]

Thanks for the breakdown. Ur videos on lead are by far my favorite ones. U are clearly spoken n break it down for beginners like me. Thanks

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

goodwater2020 - And top of the day to ya, goodwater2020..!! Safely done, making and shooting cast bullets really opens up the world of handgun, lever action rifle and single shot rifle shooting... Best Regards, FC

[@craighemken7463]

Spot on and thank you for this very informative video.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

craig hemken - And thanks to you for taking the time to post...

[@buckeyeimaging]

I had no clue! thanks for the video...

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

buckeyeimaging-wow! I'm glad it helped you...Thanks for your comment...Best Regards to ya...

[@mcdsdaddy]

Great informative video once again. You do such a great job of helping us to understand some of the nuances of reloading and bullet casting. Thanks for the great video!!!

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

mcdsdaddy- Thanks for the good word...cast bullets are fun all the way around...Best to ya...

[@knifemaker3528]

Fortune Cookie . thanks for all you teach us. years ago I thought I read in LYMAN lead book that every time you heat up your lead and scrap off the gross you are making it softer because you scrap off the tin. do you think this is true. I have a lot of wheel weight lead to hard for 44 cal pistol bullets. I was going to try this 3 or 4 times then test the hardness with finger nail.

[@The2001warrior]

KNIFE MAKER Did you ever test this theory?

[@rocknraptor3195]

Yes it is true to a point. The antimony will dross out easier and it is the hardest, looks kinda like oatmeal when you dross it. I find tin alloys pretty good with lead. Adding soft lead from stick on weights is the easiest. Anyone getting WW should have the sticky tape on weights, these are close to pure lead & some are.

[@QSasquatch]

Use gas checks for harder lead.

[@OIFEagle]

Another great video from FortuneCookie45LC! Thanks for this great information!

[@dafawty9thstate830]

I just bought 500 Hi-Tek 200 gr bullets from Missouri Bullet Company to load for my 10mm. They say there bullets are BHN of 18. I asked them if I could load my bullets to 1200 FPS, and they said absolutely, no problem. I also asked if O can load their 180 gr bullets to 1300 FPS, and they assured me I would be completely fine doing that. Would you agree with loading Brinell 18 bullets to full 10mm power, at these velocities?

[@Gun_Molester]

You can use Staedtler Mars Lumograph pencils to test hardness...Google for instructions

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

AnonaThetan-Gotta check that one out, for sure - Thanks for the comment.

[@GunFunZS]

FortuneCookie45LC That's what my VR linked above is about.

[@jolebole-yt]

Great and informative video. Your data is exactly what I read in a casting book I am reading right now. Thank you

[@calculusentropy]

Our range is mostly .22LR, soft lead. And High Antimony and Tin must be added, btw An-timm-money isn't cheap, so I add magnum shot.

[@Sapphire1987]

I've got a question, I recently started casting and coating 9mm. They are 147 grains and the speed should be 900fps, haven't chronod because I had allot of tumblers. Then I noticed my bullets were sized by my brass. I ruled out seating and crimping since I seated without crimp and the same issue remains. My barrel is slugged .355, I tried .356 and .357 bullets. But they all size down do around .352-.353 in my case. BHN is 18 with the pencil test. I still have old lubed bullets and some coated that I once bought. Their hardness is 26-28 and even higher then H2 pencil. I've got 30 year old lee carbide sizing die's. They size my case to .374 outside diameter. When I pull the harder bullets they are not deformed anything. Though I noticed my .356 plated bullets deform slightly to .355. Do you have any possible tips? Do I need to increase lead hardness by adding tin and antimony? Edit: OAL is 28.87mm

[@wagon9082]

What a great video

[@Munky332]

When it comes to lead for older/lighter load guns, like say the 455 webley, do you want to go softer or harder? It seems that this falls sort of into the cowboy action territory? Also, what about the relationship between the cylinder chambers, forcing cone, and barrel? My buddy has one and he's going on about how he keeps measuring and he's only coming out to 450-452, but he's measuring improperly (in my opinion) with calipers. I told him to slug it, but he seems apprehensive. He loaded up some 262 gr over I believe 3.9gr Bullseye, but he's worried that the 455 bullet size (with 15 BHN) may cause pressure spikes and damage the gun? It is an unshaved standard cylinder mark 6 webley.

[@charleswilson1063]

Just a tip. Buy a lee reloading manual, it goes into great detail on this subject plus I think they make the best molds and etc. At the best prices. Can't go wrong on this.

[@glennlee6274]

Ive never reloaded with my own cast bullets but have recently come across about 200lbs of lead window weights,they seem VERY soft,so I dont know its composition,should I use more alloy to lead ratio? Is there any way to make a formula besides making different batches in ingot form?

[@wawheeler21]

I have heard that water quenching only hardens the bullets temporarily, but I have never put much stock in that. Obviously once they are melted it is reversed but do you think they stay harder until they are melted? What is your opinion?

[@kellylunceford5625]

Ok I’m new at this so if you powder coat your bullets and their still a soft lead will they still expand for the rifling to work? Any help appreciated.

[@davidpennington9002]

Where did you get this information from: Is there a reloading book with this information?

[@nativejuicevapors]

Does powder coating change any of these bhn numbers?

[@petermanetta2920]

Perfect. Answered my questions...thank you

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Peter Manetta And thank you for taking the time to post...Have a great day

[@Siskiyous6]

I believe your casting too hard

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Liberty Cave - I just casted up some 500 S & W 440 grain Lee RNFPs that the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook specified be cast with Linotype - so I did that, but no doubt I really don't need all that hardness either especially with powder coating the bullets. For the applications in this video, I sure don't need as much hardness, but the video was all about getting the hardness we were talking about. Have a great Thanksgiving, Steve

[@wagon9082]

Good video

[@yojimbo05]

have a question Fortune Cookie? all you do is do step by step part separating the leads by antimony, Pure Lead and Water quenching

[@Toolness1]

Or you can powder coat and shoot wheel weight alloy up to and possibly beyond 1850fps fps with no leading (at least in my experience)

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Toolness1 - This video was made before the powder coating when powder coating had not yet really gained traction...now PC is mainstream amongst casters and reloaders (and finally starting to get recognition with the big ammo companies). Have a great day, FC Steve

[@SA-lr1sf]

The best

[@spraynpray]

I heard you match the hardness to the pressure, not the velocity. Working with second hand info though.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

spraynpray- No doubt pressure is a more reliable match (I believe the Missouri Bullets website goes with that), but we shooters don't really have any good gauge for pressure other than what is printed. And there has to be variations from different guns, etc. Takes pressure to make velocity. And we do have chronographs we can use to pin down velocity. So I'm going to keep linking hardness with velocity - and there is wiggle room in the matchups anyway. I'm surprised that others have not commented in like manner… Best to ya...

[@spraynpray]

It's all magic to me anyway. I've yet to fire any of my cast bullets. I'm waiting on the barrel I had chopped to shoot a bunch.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

spraynpray I thought it would be important to get back to you on clarification. On the velocity to hardness match, that is very useful and safe for pistol shooting. And the velocity / hardness / pressure is predictable for pistol. However, for rifle shooting - the velocity / hardness is OK, but there is no coupling of predictability with pressures- You could have a low velocity rifle load with cast bullet hardness being fine, but the pressures could be exceedingly high depending on the powder used. So stay with good published data, and you cannot extrapolate anything with reduced loads in rifle cast bullet loads. Because of the smaller fast burning powder charges, a little more powder can be right on the steepest portion of the pressure curve, and you gain a tiny amount of velocity with a huge and possibly catastrophic jump in pressure. Hope this helps… Best to ya...

[@spraynpray]

This is true, pistol velocity and pistol powders aren't nearly as complicated.

[@j.rob.5943]

Antimonial lead is BHN 8.6, pure lead is BHN 5. I think your recipes are off a little.

[@Joe-sn6ir]

45 long colt????? is there a 45 short colt???? no??? hmmmmm.... O.o

[@reddogleader1968]

Appreciate your time and effort to teach and inform.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Joseph Koziol - And thanks to you for being a friend of shooting, reloading and casting...Have a great day

[@airgunwarriors7491]

FCLC45, as you already know, I'll be casting with 99% pure lead, 1% tin (.22/17-grain air-gun ammo), but if I wanted to make my lead a little harder, yet keep the melting point below 1000-f., what alloy/s do you recommend I mix with my 99% pure lead? Does tin actually make lead harder or does it just make lead shinier and flow better when molten? If you could recommend which item would be best for me to order from RotoMetals in order to make my 99% pure lead a little harder, what would it be? Thank you in advance very much, agw.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

AirGunWarriors - Yes, tin is responsible for making our alloys flow and cast well. Antimony is the best hardener. The traditional alloy used to harden our softer lead is linotype (4% tin, 12% antimony). But RMs has created something even better - Superhard alloy (30% antimony). And, RM has a formula that will help you calculate how much to mix to get the hardness you want...Best Regards

[@michaellentz4134]

Great video. So when would I recognize that I might need to add tin into the pot?

[@punchrolo]

Just a question can I use Lyman #2 to load 460 S&W 300 grain bullet at velocity round 1700 to 1800 ft per second. I will be powder coating and applying a gascheck. I've been loading 9mm 45ACP 10mm.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

punchrolo 2 - Yes, you can do that, and leading will be controlled. But guns vary - If accuracy is enabled, that's a go. If not, you might need BHN increase to BHN 18 by adding 3% more antimony to your Lyman #2 - the alloy will be harder to hold the rifling at your 1700 - 1800 fps. Good shootin' to ya, FC Steve

[@michael184272]

Excellent video..very informative. Thanks for posting..

[@steveshooter9010]

Lots of good information, Cookie man, thanks!

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

+Steve Shooter - And thank you for taking the time to post -- Good shootin' to ya, Shooter!! FC

[@campocaster]

I see some people on youtube water quenching their ingots for more hardness. Doesnt the alloy go back to its original hardness when melting ingots in order to cast bullets? Or does it create a cumulative effect? each time you water quench it continually increases BHN?

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Paul Campo - Quenching ingots is really a waste of time. Best to make 'em, let 'em cool and store 'em dry and away from children. But casters are completely free to do whatever they want with their ingots - it's a personal matter. No hardness gains in our cast bullets will be realized by water quenching ingots. Have a great day, FC