The Sonic Adventure 2 Iceberg Explained

[@JohnnyVector]

Chapters :- 00:00 Introduction 01:20 Tip of the Iceberg 06:30 Below the Surface 13:19 Middle of the Iceberg 20:43 Bottom of the Iceberg 28:21 The Depths

[@johnnygyro2295]

The theory that Shadow and Sonic were both created by Gerald, and thus are brothers, is not bad. Ironically, there's another theory that, in the Sonic movie verse, Eggman's going to use the Sonic quill he has to clone Shadow from it, giving him a new origin story. That or use it to power Metal Sonic... That being said, a bigger question is how the hell GUN itself wasn't shut down after the info on the ARK incident came out? Their secrets nearly got the Earth blown up!

[@a.randomcomenter5482]

8888

[@a.randomcomenter5482]

88888888 7

[@myfellowsonicfans7131]

@@johnnygyro2295 Government cover up probably lol. At the end of Shadow the Hedgehog though the President does talk to the GUN Chief about honoring people like Shadow and Gerald however, so if you take that as just being a few years between, you could see how they turned over a new leaf eventually.

[@WaterKirby1994]

No mention of Unused Chao Stuff like the 2-Tone Eggs & stuff regarding hacked chao like "Oh My Egg"? Also why wasn't Grind Race on this list? The fact that it's the only 2P Stage entirely exclusive to the mode should say something. It wasn't just part of an existing stage like the other 5 Level 1 Stages were. There are some theories that it may have been a scrapped Shadow Stage in the game that was abandoned in favor of Sky Rail. Also there's a lot of stuff in Shadow's game that was planned for Adventure 2 with it rumored that Digital Circuit was proposed as a potential stage.

[@wistfulanthophila9317]

I always interpreted the lyrics in pumpkin hill to be knuckles trying to stay calm by telling himself he's not scared

[@nexisvids]

Just like Shadow in White Jungle. "Shadow don't make me upset, I don't wanna hear you, Shadow don't make me upset... you're frightened at something..." Knuckles also lies to himself in an attempt to be brave I think. He's the kind of character that would totally lie about being afraid of ghosts.

[@Josuh]

To be fair those ghosts are absolutely horrifying

[@YophiSmith]

I heard in an interview that P-Hunnid had like 30 minutes to come up with lyrics. Sega wrote the music already and he had to work with the music with not a lot of background on the game. He had to actually rap Wild Canyon as Knuckles for a test run in front of Japanese people 😂. Then they said they liked it and boom, he was given the others.

[@MicahBuzanANIMATION]

YEs!!

[@Nvtesokawaii]

well yeah rappers have this ego some are real some fake.

[@dabluepittoo-aqua4213]

Not gonna lie, the character interrupting in the Shuttle Crash scene actually works to it's benefit. That's likely how it would go in real life, with everyone panicking and talking over one another.

[@ThisJordo]

I agree with your point, but the dialogue itself doesn't exactly work to that advantage. I mean Sonic cuts himself off multiple times in that scene alone lol But yeah they'd definitely just be yelling over each other anyway

[@smileyjojo4913]

Unintentionally realistic dialogue

[@justingarrett2239]

Those are the same reasons I kinda like the interrupting dialogue too. Like if Sonic and Shadow were to go head to head irl I'd imagine they'd start yelling over the top of each other they way that they did

[@alexfield290]

OH NO, DON'T PULL THAT LEVER! WOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

[@snowcakes711]

I actually thought it was realistic and for some reason kinda funny.

[@aurafox1]

Honestly, I actually like the fact that the characters constantly cut each other off. As a kid, I had no clue it was a mistake and just thought they were talking over each other. It actually usually happens during more hectic scenes. There are a few awkward moments where they respond to something before it's said, but I always thought they were just anticipating where the conversation is going. In a way, it actually makes the dialogue a tad more realistic.

[@HellNutcase]

In reality, noone is going to wait until you finish your insult.

[@TheLimedew]

Bro, you were living in the future as a kid. They’re talking over each other is just intentional and that’s what I’m going with lol

[@TheHardStyleLife]

dw I got that too but yeah even as a kid it was like man they could of mixed it a lil better

[@aurafox1]

@@TheHardStyleLife The sound mixing is a whole different story. I definitely remember thinking it was obnoxious whenever the music completely drowned out Shadow's voice.

[@pepeoccult4269]

@@TheLimedew Fun fact: they cut over eachother in other scenes in Japanese too, it's just that the bad english translation made it more abundant.

[@lavieunrose8134]

I always interpreted Shadows memory of Maria’s request as him misunderstanding, and remembering incorrectly out of anger, and it wasn’t until Amy gave him that speech on the Space Colony ARC that he finally realized she meant that he could give earth a chance to be happy. Because he’s been a living time capsule for nearly 50 years, I would imagine he hadn’t been able to go through all of the stages of grief, and so we see him change thru out the story going through those stages. Denial, when he believes he can get revenge for Maria, Anger, when he misinterprets her final request, Bargaining, when he asks eggman to threaten the earth into surrendering, Depression, when he sadly reminisces Maria’s memory before Amy approaches him, and Acceptance, when Amy give him a speech about earth.

[@BvngeeGvm]

Nope

[@a11ergies48]

Sonic and shadows screams were not actually unused, they were put together and mixed into the biolizards scream

[@DumDoDoor]

Along with major audio editing to disguise this even more.

[@a11ergies48]

@@DumDoDoor ya

[@Koko-cy4ff]

Didn't the Biolizard use the same screams as Perfect Chaos?

[@dabluepittoo-aqua4213]

@@Koko-cy4ff @Koko210 The Biolizard has a multiple of SFX, including multiple different roars and screams. It's very likely that both the Sonic/Shadow fusion scream and the Perfect Chaos scream were used.

[@Koko-cy4ff]

@@dabluepittoo-aqua4213, yea, most likely. I just instinctively thought of his scream at the start of the final boss fight first.

[@toppercent]

I am a fluent speaker of Japanese. One reason for using the number 38 might be because the numbers 3 and 8 (san and hachi) can also be read as Sanba.

[@thevioletskull8158]

Thank you

[@pablozanoto5801]

Wow, real clever!!!

[@shroomer8294]

Neat

[@emmeownelan2076]

Something I picked up on in my first playthrough of SA2 that ties into the Sonic being the ultimate lifeform that wasn't mentioned in the theory is the scene where Sonic is jettisoned from the Space Colony Ark. Having not ever performed chaos control before this point, he utilised a fake chaos emerald to perform the ability copying Shadow. Later, Shadow's reaction to Sonic surviving the attempt on his life implied that Shadow believed such a feat was impossible, Shadow himself stating "maybe there's more to you than just looking like me"

[@strawhatandrew8341]

Not to mention he does say something to the effect of "I think you're the real ultimate life form" to Sonic during a certain point in the final boss fight of the Final Hazard.

[@myfellowsonicfans7131]

It could just be down to the fact that Sonic is way more versed in "this" (being adventure or whatever) than Shadow is, like how at the end despite Shadow being potentially more powerful than Sonic when he removed his inhibitor rings, he couldn't even comprehend or control his own power, and it ended up causing his "death".

[@undeadbatman9762]

@@myfellowsonicfans7131 Sonic stated himself that he grows more powerful every second, and Rouge/Blaze said he was much stronger/sharper than before. In 06 Shadow said they could truly defeat IF Sonic was still alive. Shadow taking off his rings would be a challenge but at this point Sonic has grown so much so that Shadow can’t match him. If Shadow were to take off his rings he should be equal if we lowball the amount of power Sonic gains in a second. So Sonic is most likely the ultimate life form, given their is no explanation as to where he got his weird “power growing every second thing” from. Also Shadow himself deduced that Sonic is the ultimate life form.

[@SoIstice]

@@undeadbatman9762 The Sonic 06 point doesn't really stand because he wasn't talking about Sonic's power, but instead about the fact that Solaris has to be defeated in the past, present and future simultaneously. Given the retcon of Super Knuckles, this would only be able to be accomplished with Sonic. And of course, if you're using future games as evidence, you can't ignore the blatant confirmation of Shadow being yhe Ultimate Lifeform created by Gerald by Black Doom, who was around for it all and gave up some of his own DNA for Shadow. And even if you try to point out that Doom might have faulty memory, there's hard evidence in the fact that Shadow was immune to the Black Arms toxin that immobilized everyone else and was confirmed by Eggman to be the same Shadow from SA2. Also, the line Shadow said in the final battle was a cheesy motivational compliment showing his softer side and he was most likely just referring to him as the ultimate and not THE Ultimate Lifeform created by Gerald Robotnik. He had no reason to doubt his past after uncovering the truth what Maria had said to him on the day of the raid. It'd he extra silly considering that last memory is the sole reason he's there fighting alongside Sonic. Sonic may well be the ultimate living creature, but he is not THE Ultimate Lifeform.

[@elisabethsun7059]

AND! The Biolizard’s roar, SPECIFICALLY the one where it uses chaos control, is a modified combination of the two voice clips at, 28:53 and 28:57

[@laylamorrison9596]

Man, I can't wait to see how deep Sonic 06's iceberg's going to go. Cause that game is DEEP.

[@synthesoul]

if you can consider it a game then... sure?

[@sirbirbton]

@@synthesoul Oh, it's a game no doubt. A very, VERY shitty game but a game nonetheless.

[@rrrrr0_]

Sonic 06 is unironically one of the best ones imo

[@gracekim1998]

@Inept Robot what?

[@MintyArisato]

@@synthesoul sonic 06 was rife with potential, but it was poorly executed. if sonic 06 was remade with proper love and detail it would be phenomenal

[@stygian4029]

whenever I think of Big cameos all I can think of is that one scene where Rouge and Knuckles are fighting and big is in the back "lauging"...

[@JohnnyVector]

Haha yes indeed, just "laughing"

[@tiny_98]

Right I've only ever played the gamecube version so never saw his cameos except clips of the one before egg golem and City escape ones but I recently bought the 360 version and fucking choked when I saw him in the post mad space/meteor herd boss fight cutscene ill tell you now I wasn't expecting that

[@TiagoMonteiroArt]

I don't think Shadow's fake memories invalidate him having actually met Maria. According to Gerald's diary, he had full control of Shadow's memories (made more evident in the Japanese dub), which, together with more evidences, suggests that the Professor got a hold of Shadow after both of them were sent to Earth, and during that time, he re-designed Shadow's mind to carry out his own plan for revenge on what GUN did to him and his granddaughter. He made Shadow think Maria's request was for him to avenge her, instead of bringing hope to mankind, but Amy managed to help him remember the truth. Also, slightly unrelated, but in a cutscene where Shadow remembers a conversation he had with Maria in the ARK, he confessed he wondered what his purpose was. Then, in the cutscene where Maria sends him to Earth and asks him to save mankind, she answers that early question of his, telling him that saving mankind has always been his purpose. Again, this is more evident in the Japanese dub, since in the English dub those two separate conversations sound kind of unrelated.

[@emelytorres5715]

my headcanon now

[@cirnosnumberfan6449]

@@emelytorres5715 I think this is actual canon.

[@gracekim1998]

@@cirnosnumberfan6449 it is😅 why the English version didn’t cover that correctly…..is odd

[@lakitudude7577]

You're ignoring Rouge's report from the strategy guide that implies shadow could've been created on prison island

[@MishKoz]

7:14 huh, maybe this is why Shadow says he'll grant Eggman a wish when they first meet. I always thought that was weird.

[@YaGuyALT]

Theres actually a lot of themeing in SA2 about shadow granting wishes, its evidentially more clear in the japanese version but theres also a lot of other like text in the game that refers to this too, such as the in game trailer for last story

[@JohnnyVector]

Excellent point Mish, thanks!

[@redblack8766]

@@YaGuyALT "Wishes are eternal"

[@glacierwolf2155]

It wouldn't be out of place, since the ending theme of Sonic 2 is a song from the band "Dreams Come True."

[@hrrrrghOtacon]

@@glacierwolf2155 the full soundtrack of the first game is from them

[@lajbartek360]

The Depths: -This is the only kids Game where villan *Pissed on the Moon*

[@usadroopymeat1099]

You mean this is the only kids game where villain committed war crimes like killing innocent people and astronauts that have families he must be executed for his crimes against humanity

[@KaiserMattTygore927]

While I do think the game implies that Sonic is probably the "real ultimate life-form" I think its more of a "dragonball esque" trope where Sonic was around building his skillset and using his super form far longer than Shadow who only just returned from cryo-stasis.

[@littenfire3563]

exactly. I always figured Shadow was based on Super Sonic

[@glacierwolf2155]

Yeah, Sonic survived, and Shadow fell to his "doom" simply because Sonic has had more time to be used to the Super transformation and its limitations, whereas this is Shadow's first time in the transformation, so he exerted more energy than he really needed to.

[@nickhall358]

29:40 That's one of the animals you can find in the stages to give to Chao. It's called "Half Fish" and is part of the Ghost group of animals along with the Bat and Skeleton Dog.

[@Luigicat11]

Oh, someone else already mentioned it.

[@staidlystare]

I've gotten it bef it's one of the harder animals to get

[@DeepFriedOreoOffline]

"This isn't the first time Knuckles music has lied about his character..." It actually defines his character perfectly. He acts outwardly rash and aggressive to hide the fact that he is actually quite emotional. It's a trope made fun of a lot. There was an episode of a sitcom where a younger women starts dating an older guy cause he is mature and mysterious. But overtime she urges him to be emotional with her, and once he starts he cant stop. He gets to the point where it's been so long since he's dealt with his emotions that he cries during sex and she breaks up with him.

[@JohnnyVector]

Thanks, I love that characterisation of Knuckles

[@NA-cw3mm]

Its official, Knuckles cries during sex

[@moobysnaxx6086]

Bruce Willis in friends confirmed

[@Shadamyfan-rs8xc]

Poor guy 😟

[@Manynamesonehandle]

5:29 im pretty sure it's supposed to be ironic. seeing as knuckles usually flexes his personality in this game and several others. he says he isn't afraid of ghosts even tho he is afraid of ghosts.

[@KaiserMattTygore927]

That or its him trying to reassure himself.

[@WolforNuva]

Yeah it sounds more like he's playing up a false bravado, "No way I'm scared of a little ghost" - only to be proven wrong once he comes face to face with one.

[@purplowso]

Hmm... That Kinda Sounds Like A Character From An Online Web Series That I Know... Hmm....

[@kaihedgie1747]

34:33 - My rebuttal to this has always been that, despite Shadow being the first known character to harness Chaos Energy with a single Emerald, he has far less experience harnessing the power of all seven Emeralds. He was likely bleeding more Ring Energy because of it whereas Sonic has regularly used all seven Emeralds in multiple games and knows how to better maintain the Super form

[@MDKGunner]

I was going to mention this myself as by the events of Shadow the Hedgehog he's also been awake for far longer than in SA2 which takes place probably over the span of 2-3 days so he might not have gotten any sleep at all during it where as in his own game he actually gets each Emerald one at a time and get's used to using them all instead of all at once

[@jeremy3705]

I like to imagine that the battle takes place far longer than they intended and Shadow (realizing Sonic is a far better protector of earth than himself) feels the chaos energy depleting and uses his last bit of energy to allow Sonic to re-enter the shuttle as sort of a sacrificial act of heroism. Ive always imagined the rings didn’t really exist and instead chaos energy is just sort of limited. Kind of like when humans are struck by lightning, it all depends on how long the electricity flows through you in regards to damaging the body.

[@JacksonMcKay95]

Building on the Sonic is the Ultimate Lifeform theory; if you're playing as Super Sonic at about the 4 minute mark in the Final Hazard boss, Shadow says "Hahaha Sonic! I think I've discovered what the ultimate lifeform is. It might be you!"

[@Shadamyfan-rs8xc]

I think Shadow was just being complimentary there

[@RealBroccoliHour]

@@Shadamyfan-rs8xc I seriously doubt that tbh, it all just lines up way too well. That’d be like if Vegeta called Goku the true prince of all sayians. That’s too extreme a title to just be a ‘compliment’.

[@peachy5454]

The screams were actually used together to make the Bio-Lizards roars! Fun fact

[@zeropointer125]

A detail I liked in that in the Sonic X adaptation they state that 2 capsules were ejected from the colony when it was shutdown, adding more doubt that shadow was the ultimate lifeforms

[@JohnnyVector]

That's cool! I'm not super familiar with Sonic X, so that's good to know.

[@jeremy3705]

Sonic X isn’t considered canon to the sonic series. Although I do believe that a lot of Sonic X was inspired by a lot of fan theory. Dark Super Sonic was just a fan canon until sonic x actually portrayed it as existing.

[@zeropointer125]

@@jeremy3705 Never said it was canon. I just liked the creative decision

[@RealBroccoliHour]

@@jeremy3705 Sonic X is ‘canon’ to an extent. It was made by Sonic Team, and a lot of its concepts and ideas made its way into mainline.

[@jordandillow3423]

yeah tell this idiot he is wrong

[@brandonbaka1375]

Sees Iceberg for History: Nothing Sees Iceberg for Lost Media: Hm okay Sees Iceberg for Sonic Adventure 2: This is the one

[@gowares4ever992]

Only legends do this sort of things.

[@TheRealJaydenJohnson]

Sonic isn’t the ultimate life form... what you see is what you get, just a guy who loves adventure

[@pepeoccult4269]

What can we say? He dies hard!

[@undeadbatman9762]

He is both and he doesn’t know that. Seriously those Echidnas literally worship him as a god.

[@Beta_Mixes]

... ... ... ... ..... ... ... *And piss rocks*

[@derickvera573]

@@Beta_Mixes B L E N I S

[@polocatfan]

I mean he isn't now. Shadow the Hedgehog retconned it.

[@LiveHedgehog]

I like the theory that Sonic and Shadow's super-powered Chaos Control at the end of the game fixed the moon.

[@iproblumanno]

Actually, Shadow states that Sonic might actually be the Ultimate Life Form in the final battle. Shadow, "I think I've discovered what the ultimate life form is...it might be you!"

[@iproblumanno]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/m5innYKdpJaIf6M

[@pepeoccult4269]

Good, someone else caught that.

[@EWOODJ]

Because of how heroic Sonic is.

[@iproblumanno]

here is another good video kzbin.info/www/bejne/rIqllGCLocl0mbs I agree for most of it lmk what y'all think

[@undeadbatman9762]

@@EWOODJ Nah most likely because Sonic has more experience and control over chaos.

[@enchilad6799]

The coordinates in Mad Space's song title actually have a cool little secret. Mad Space's hints are all backwards right? Well if you reverse the the coordinates, it actually puts you in Egypt which of course is a key location in the game

[@JohnnyVector]

That is amazing. I never thought to reverse them. Thanks for that!

[@dip.918]

It's also where the characters go to Space from!

[@apollomaster9301]

My prefered headcanon is that: Sonic is indeed the ultimate life form, but was only prophesized 50 years ago. Sonic was born as the ultimate life form, meanwhile shadow was the closest approximation of ancient echidna murals that gerald found. I've never liked the idea that sonic was on the ark, because for me it invalidates shadow as a character entirely. Shadow being a clone of sonic and coming into his own still lines up with how his story progressed.

[@GoldenGrenadier]

It makes more sense the other way around, for sonic to be an upgraded clone of shadow or the descendant of one that escaped or something. That would give GUN a good reason to want to recapture Sonic in addition to shadow.

[@Admantist]

29:36 The creature the Black Market Chao has is the same as one of the four "legendary/fantasy" small animals, which Sonic and co. can pick up during their action stages (either by finding them in hard-to-find places and/or by breaking all three Chao crates in the stage). The little amphibian can be seen, for example, in one of the cages in Egg Quarters (in the room with the Mystic Melody temple), where Rouge needs to pick up a bomb to destroy the cage. 34:42 It may also be possible that Shadow has exhausted himself due to the fact that he used his Super Form for the first time, while Sonic has been an avid user of all Chaos Emeralds (and more) for quite a while. On a more fan-theoretical note, I personally believe that, in addition to less experience in Super Form, the reason Shadow was so exhausted was also because he received a huge mental blow before the Biolizard fight (having realized that everything he thought he was doing for Maria turned out to be the exact opposite). On a final note, there is an actual quote from Shadow, which can be heard some time into the Final Hazard fight, where he addresses Sonic, stating: "I think I've discovered what the Ultimate Life Form is, it might be you!" On the one hand, I have always taken it as a sign of respect Shadow finally accepts towards his rival, and on the other - well, it does add fuel to the "Sonic is the ULF" theory. :]

[@Diwasho]

30:23 It's not actually Eggman who vandalized the Egyptian relics and pyramids with his imagery and symbols, it's his grandfather Gerald Robotnik. This place used to be Gerald's base of operations 50 years prior, hence why these logos and faces look so faded, weathered and worn out - if they were recently added by Eggman they wouldn't have aged so heavily.

[@Benbfnas77777]

Another example of that “no money” rule being broken is in Sonic Team Racing, where Vector says that he’s at the race to “make a few extra coin”, and at another point Blaze says “I think your here for more than just money”

[@WolforNuva]

The Chaotix as a concept kind of revolves around it, ever since their reintroduction in Heroes they're the broke detectives who desperately need any job that can help them pay the bills.

[@MasterDisaster64]

Which is weird, because it seems like a mandate that was imposed in the same era as TSR came out.

[@Amsel_616]

Is also broken in Sonic Free Riders since the entire story revolves around the second EX World Grand Prix but this time the winning team gets money instead of the Chaos Emeralds.

[@Shadamyfan-rs8xc]

I think they just like adding rules for the hell of it, only to retcon them later

[@renbothegoatman]

The pumkin hill theme it's petty much Knuckles denying him being afraid of ghost

[@MetaKnuxXbeats]

This is probably my favorite iceberg video you created. I always loved the lore implications of SA2. It can be very bizarre looking back but that's what makes it so awesome.

[@JSpyx]

I love that they returned big's cameo's in Sonic and the Secret Rings again x) Also, I remember really well that people thought "Super Shadow" was actually "Hyper Shadow", I read about this because apparently in the SA2 gameguide, the name "Hyper Shadow" was written in there for Shadow's super form, so that's what people went off from

[@firestonehaku]

I remember this as well. It always confused me, as I don't remember the game ever acknowledging Shadow as "Hyper Shadow" at any point in the game.

[@justcallmekai1554]

@@firestonehaku Yeah I thought ppl were just making that up but now I know were that misconception comes from. Weird.

[@KaiserMattTygore927]

I remember that too, never agreed with the people that thought that either.

[@Cornmeal_Rat]

I remember I had a toy of super shadow labeled as hyper shadow back in the day too

[@Langtree]

Yay! I love watching these for the background noise to be honest, and the icebergs serve as a nice way to delve into a topic :)

[@funtimecupcake]

Agreed

[@GSEleven]

Couldn't agree more. I have been in an iceberg rabbit hole, I came from the Earthbound Iceberg, spun around the Space iceberg after watching about 20-30 more, and now I'm here.

[@Ekraelum]

I decided to play Rhythm Heaven because of the 2 hour iceberg that was recently published 😅

[@SPEEPSHighway]

Cool vid! I like a lot of the points made and there were really good explanations. I got some extra info on a few of the points for anyone that wants it: - In the DC version, A Ranks are for the extra characters. Costumes can be unlocked by beating the stages with any rank. They're all purely cosmetic (unlike SA2B) and none of them have sound effects other than Amy. You can even Spindash as Metal Sonic with Shadow's yellow aura. - The girl on the posters in Speed Highway is an un-named spider girl made by Satoshi Okano, he posted about it on twitter a while ago. - A debug build Hidden Palace released has the World Ranking menu before it was removed. Although, the ranks are random and you obviously can't connect to the server. - The out of bounds layout in White Jungle is a very early version of Green Forest. If you load that stage with White Jungle's objects it'll match up perfectly. It predates E3 2000, because the only enemies are Beetles. - Thanks to the huge vertical shaft at the end, Eggman can hover back in bounds and still beat Cannon's Core on a pirated disc. I think it still locks you out of the lost chao and getting an A though. - The screaming clips from SA2:Preview were combined together and filtered to make the Biolizard's roars. Weirdly, it also has clips of David Humphrey screaming in the English voice list but nothing was done with them. Also here's a cool thing from recently that'd fit right into this thing: The Fortune Teller in the Kindergarten was originally going to be the Library Chao. Her textures (aside from the mask and crown) have the library's name in them and she can be seen on a drawing in the entrance area like the other Kindergarten staff. The blush on the cheeks of the Chao in the drawing is on the Fortune Teller's model, but isn't visible due to incorrect sorting (Something the DC would automatically correct).

[@JohnnyVector]

Thanks! Thanks for the extra information. I had no idea the Speed Highway poster character was a spider girl, very cool.

[@SPEEPSHighway]

@@JohnnyVector Yea, the info (JP) is in this tweet: twitter.com/okanotion/status/1292606063661862913

[@risingrevolt]

Aye cool to see you here

[@rickydargence5948]

Here's an interesting theory, could Maria be hispanic? Not necesarily Gerald and Eggman too, but maybe Gerald's son/daughter married someone of hispanic origin, two small but interesting reasons. Maria is a very popular spanish name IF not the most popular one, which is the spanish version of the name "Mary", also in the japanese version, instead of Saying "sayonara" she says "Adios" which is spanish for goodbye. Far fetched? I guess. Does this change anything? Not really but consider this: Gerald researched the "Lost World" ruins from SA1 which were heavily inspired Mesoamerican cultures in LatAm, they speak spanish there, so, probably during his expeditions there, his son/daughter (Probably daughter) hooked up with one of the locals, then she was born in the Ark. Not to mention, this is only maybe a small hint towards how the "world" in the adventure era works.

[@JohnnyVector]

Very interesting theory. This is kinda vaguely related to translation oddities...in the Terminator, when Arnie says 'Hasta la vista' in the movie, the Spanish version dubs it as 'Sayonara'.

[@redblack8766]

Woah....

[@Luigi_Mario_1997]

Yeah, to me that sounds a bit too far-fetched and uncanny.

[@lavieunrose8134]

Even if it isn’t canon, it’s a great head canon! I love going in-depth into small details like this! We know it had to have been Gerald’s son because Gerald and Maria share the same last name, and last names are typically passed down from the Father’s side! Maria could have been the name of another ancestor, perhaps Gerald’s wife or mother! Making the entire family after of Latin origin :)

[@gracekim1998]

@@JohnnyVector wow😅

[@clayton7993]

34:26 you could argue that the reason Shadow "dies" when using chaos control is actually because he produces a lot more chaos energy than Sonic but at the cost of leaving him completely exhausted once all his power gets used up.

[@l1ghtd3m0n3]

When a single game in a large franchise gets its own iceberg, you know it’s gonna be good

[@novelezra]

"Concept art of Rouge also exists, showing her with smaller-" "-Oh no!" "Wings" "Oh"

[@peterpumkineater69346]

*b a t b o o b s*

[@sillybeanthing]

Tiddy

[@Terrazon]

*booba*

[@undeadbatman9762]

Got us the first half not gonna lie.

[@solumanblevins5906]

16:09 I remember there was an exploit in the SA2: Battle edition where you could collect all the rings in either Tails or Rouge's car lvs and carry that number over to a lv of your choice, netting a perfect score on every lv. Since netting all rings in a lv nets you an automatic A Rank it was an easy way to 100% the game. Used it on the Xbox-360 version. Edit: 22:08 Should point out that that was an Evil Bunnie from a Alt Universe, hence the skinny Robotnik.

[@iCABALi]

29:37 The green Chao in the Black Market is a reference to a Kappa, a Japanese mythological creature.

[@WaterKirby1994]

Yes & the Kappa is also 1 of the Rare Animals you can give to chao. To get a rare animal you need to open all 3 Chao Containers or know where the 1 or 2 are in that stage naturally hidden. Kappa are the rare animals for Pumpkin Hill (only 3rd container), Green Forest, Hidden Base (only 2 containers exist), & Egg Quarters. Other Rare Animals include the Dragon (Wild Canyon & Aquatic Mine), Phoenix (Metal Harbor & Meteor Herd), Unicorn (Prison Lane, & Dry Lagoon), as well as the Skeleton Dog (Pyramid Cave) which is common in Pumpkin Hill.

[@xxxxx6869]

The animal in the chao blackmarket in sa2b is a "half fish", one of the ghost type animals (half fish, bat, skeleton dog) that can be collected in the stages. Technically it fits into the background as it shows the players that they are going to get items that are useful to chao raising. It does implies that the black market is involved in (i assume illegal) animal capturing and reselling. I think it's also hilarious that it's located in a closet in a kindergarden.

[@UltraHorseBoots]

Back again for more trivia. Did you know Sega has continued to use the Sonic Adventure 2 engine long since it's release? Every online Phantasy Star game has been built off a branch of the Sonic Adventure 2 engine, including PSO2. It's part of the reason why there's plenty of Easter eggs and asset reuse between both games: such as being able to find the iconic item boxes as throwable objects in SA2 in the Ark stages or Sega GMs being able to load as Sonic characters in PSO1. PSO2 while heavily modified, still has some of the engine faults you can run into while playing SA2 on PC at high resolutions and frame rates, granted the threshold has been adjusted so high within PSO2 it's impossible to reach the points where you can start doing the engine glitches without using ToS breaking plug-ins. However, the new game PSO2: New Genesis appears to finally be running on a completely brand new engine, finally breaking the trend of Phantasy Star games being built off the back of Sonic Adventure engines. Of course that is unless it just turns out the engine is just a branch off the rumored Sonic Adventure reboot for Sonic's 35th anniversary.

[@SprunkCovers]

I didn't even knew that PSO used SA2 engine, I mean it makes sense, but never tought of that lol

[@akiradkcn]

What the fuck, a MMO built on pso2? And I played it for almost a entire year without noticing?

[@emilycurrent7489]

You can find the swamp creature from the Black Market in game and use it for your chao!! There were several mythical creatures (unicorns, phoenix, skeleton dog, etc.) If I remember right, the swamp monster was found in Pumpkin Hill if you open all 3 chao boxes.

[@WaterKirby1994]

You could also find 1 naturally in both Green Forest & Egg Quarters in addition to the 3rd Container in both of those stages. Funfact about Skeleton Dogs is that they are actually common in Pumpkin Hill & Rare Everywhere else. I will admit I never knew the statue blinked before this video, although yeah even in English it's kind of obvious that the dialogue was referring to the chao's mustache being fake rather than Eggman's. Speaking of Chao iceberg things, I'm surprised he left out the unused Chao Egg Colors, & various types of chao that can only be gotten through hacking which were used as Challenge Race Opponents. "Oh My Egg" for example & going into how they work if edited to be other colors.

[@emilycurrent7489]

@@WaterKirby1994 I was low key shocked invisible chao didn't come up! I used to breed those things all the time!

[@WaterKirby1994]

@@emilycurrent7489 I think Bright Chao were mentioned which is how the HD Versions translated the Translucent & Invisible Chao. Still they could have been much more elaborated on. I wouldn't be surprised if the Invisible Egg was part of why Chao don't breed & reincarnate into colored eggs.

[@fakenaam7297]

I don't understand how such an easy oversight was made, really. Even guides from back when the game was new covered this. I find Johnny Vectors chao raising experience highly suspect! Seeing the proper way to play any SA game is with a minimum of 10x more play time raising chaos, I'm disappointed!

[@WaterKirby1994]

@@fakenaam7297 Correction the proper way is to spend 40% of your playtime gathering rings & animals/drives for your chao, then the rest either raising them or racing/helping them win karate tournaments.

[@marronhak2441]

I think 38 & Sambe De Amigo is like the thing with 39 & Hatsune Miku as well as 24 & Puyo puyo. Basically, numbers have different ways of being read or sounded out and some people like to take those and make it sound like something else. 2 can be read as "fu" and 4 can be "yo/yon" so it makes "fu-yo" which sounds like "Puyo". They even made Puyo Puyo 4 as Puyo Puyon, mixing puyo and yon.

[@Roroprata]

That's definitely it, 3 can be read as "san" and 8 can be read as "ha/ba", making "sanba" or samba

[@mcpduffs]

San is 3 in Chinese. And Japanese ba is 8 in mandarin

[@Gunblazer42]

@@Roroprata The Japanese love number puns. If you ever see "573" in a Konami game, that's ko, na, and mi (In MGS4, Drebin's number is 893 for ya-ku-za). If you see "765" in a Namco game, that's na-mu-ko, as well as "876" after the merger for ba-na-mu (BANdai NAMco). There's actually an entire TVTropes article based on the idea, called a "Goroawase Number".

[@Roroprata]

@@Gunblazer42 Interestingly, as far as I know, the yakuza example is actually backwards, the name yakuza came from 893. That's because it is one of the worst hands in a japanese card game called oichokabu, worth literally 0 points, so it was used to call people "good-for-nothings", and the name stuck.

[@taputrainer8463]

19:10 In Wild Canyon around where the air pushes Knuckles up, you can see two Sonic styled humans next to the master emerald. In Pyramid Cave, in the section where you need to get the key near the end of the level (where two mass produced gammas are on large stones) there are depictions of people with Sonic hair and Knuckles hair, I think it implies that Sonic’s people gave the master emerald to the Enchidna race. The video Sonic is an alien also is basically the Sonic Ultimate lifeform theory mixed with another theory that Sonic is the last of his alien kind

[@taputrainer8463]

In Death Chamber in the secret room needed to complete the lost chao mission the same Sonic styled humans can be seen praising a chao, I feel that since this is a singular hidden room where a chao mission is complete I feel that this could be some hint that Sonic’s people brought not only the chaos emeralds and master emerald to the Knuckles Clan but also the Chao. Another comment on another video mentioned how the desert section of the game takes place on Angel Island because it’s sandopolis both have ghost enemies, an Egyptian aesthetic, and a giant golem as a boss. It’s also been stated that apparently since Chaos passed onto the afterlife that Angel Island permanently stayed in the ocean which fixes the problem of how the master emerald was stolen again since Knuckles explains in a recap segment that Rouge stole the master emerald. Since SA2 takes place in San Francisco, Angel Island is place where it’s real life inspiration is and would explain a lot of plot holes SA2 had. The iceberg should definitely be updated to add these.

[@nothingrhymeswithorange5294]

Fun fact: Shadow the Hedgehog was originally only going to appear in Sonic Adventure 2, but his popularity caused Sega to push for his return in Heroes. Originally E-102 Gamma was considered to reappear.

[@mrmrhihi1]

So did you watch the whole video or

[@nothingrhymeswithorange5294]

@@mrmrhihi1 Yeah, why?

[@mrmrhihi1]

Because he says this word for word at 36:50

[@MintyArisato]

@@mrmrhihi1 to be fair he didnt say the gamma part. I've always secretly wished they could bring him back even though its literally impossible, lol

[@Shadamyfan-rs8xc]

I like Omega better honestly

[@CrystalGreymon]

In the final battle of the game Shadow has some dialogue where he guesses that Sonic is the Ultimate Life Form. Considering the fan theory, I just find that coincidentally interesting.

[@crisismoon880]

I’m gonna have a crisis if this video doesn’t blow up. Love your Sonic icebergs.

[@ScorchLawson]

2 things: 1: In the Final Hazard boss fight there's a chance that Shadow will say that he thinks Sonic is the Ultimate Life Form. 2: It's pure coincidence, but in 1995 Infogrames developed a multi-platform rail shooter called Chaos Control which had a release on the Sega Saturn.

[@typreegamingtpg2198]

I do believe that Sonic is meant to be the Ultimate Lifeform, but I personally think that he was somehow born from the natural world, as opposed to being an artificial creation made by Gerald. I think a hypothetical SA3 (had it been made in place of Heroes) would've definitely followed up on this though, seeing how it was intentionally left ambiguous. Either way, the real answer doesn't matter at this point, since the place that the franchise is at now (and where it's headed) doesn't seem like it has the drive to tie up a 20-year-old loose end like this any time soon.

[@agreedboarart3188]

I have no idea what I'm watching but I love Sonic Adventure 2 so I clicked. Had no idea Soap shoes were an actual thing.

[@Lochlin.B]

26:02 Hey, that's my video! Really cool to see it used for discussion, thanks. :)

[@JohnnyVector]

Thanks! It was a cool video

[@katmiller4162]

29:36 The creature beside the Black Market Chao is a Half Fish that you can give to chao as a creature power up. The attributes it gives to your chao is a flame emotion bubble (like the one Dark Chaos Chao has when you reincarnate your chao 3+ times)

[@willrichard6921]

The whole alternate paths thing being intended for SA2 but ultimately used in Shadow The Hedgehog show that it is the true sequel. It picks up a lot of themes and threads from SA2, and has many shared locations in stages. Thematically, many melodies from SA2, including Live and Learn, are used in the OST. In my opinion, Shadow The Hedgehog is the last game that tries to keep any sort of continuity. I miss it...

[@Whocares158]

Sega/Sonic Team : "Screw you continuity!!!"

[@willrichard6921]

@@Whocares158 Very true!

[@GreenSwede]

I believe Soap shoes were added quite late to the game due to issues with lack of funding. They basically saved the game thanks to the adverts. Also Eggman saying "Yosh" is because the voice actors were given the Japanese voice lines for sounds. There are other cases of this happening too like when Sonic jumps at the Egg Golem before the battle starts and he says something from the Japanese voice line.

[@firestonehaku]

Correct. I thought this was generally understood by the voice delevery.

[@pepeoccult4269]

TERIIIIIYAAAAAAAAH!

[@GreenSwede]

26:12 This happens on legit copies of the game too, though apparently not all of them. It is possible to hover to safe ground and continue the stage.

[@pepeoccult4269]

Yeah, same here. I buought a new version of the game after that though.

[@erasmotamayo1937]

24:00 In the Lego Dimensions Sonic Pack they made a joke about this.

[@justhumanthings6711]

Honestly I kind of liked it when the voice dubs interrupt each other a little bit, because it makes the characters feel like they had enough of there rivals trash talking or in the case of the scene with Tails’s ship it makes it seem like the characters are having a bit of a swabble.

[@nicksuniverse7273]

I have a theory: Gerald is classic robotnik. In sonic generations, a younger eggman is seen alongside eggman, but it could actually be Gerald. In this video, it claims to have made that gerald saw the mural of super sonic in Hidden Palace in Sonic 3 and Knuckles. However, the only one on the island to have seen is Classic Eggman, and it says that Gerald was making a more "Ultimate Lifeform" version of Super Sonic. In SA2, Gerald is older, and has the mural to his name, giving to believe that the classic Eggman character actually is gerald robotnik, and spent his life creating the ACTUAL copy of sonic after Metal failed. Sonic, however was oblivious to thus fact, so he thought that the MODERN robotnik was actually the robotnik he used to fight, not Gerald. That was a theory, though, so just take this with a grain of salt.

[@JohnnyVector]

Interesting theory. Kinda reminds me of the Donkey Kong/Cranky Kong confusion.

[@GoogleAccount-ox6em]

The fact that modern eggman recalls fights with sonic in the classic era kinda breaks this theory though

[@matthewbrooks5470]

26:49 Well, “Shadow the Hedgehog” basically claimed that Shadow was created in part by space Satan

[@JohnnyVector]

Haha yeah, the lore gets completely out of control

[@TheQuinnAce]

While it is possible to believe that shadow is speculating, if you do the final biohazard fight and switching your character instead of doing the objective once, or basically an odd number of times to have Sonic be the one doing the final hit, you can hear Shadow tell Sonic that he thinks he's the ultimate life form. I thought it was neat because it shows that Gerald already had a concept of Sonic before eggman started dealing with him. This plays into a lot of the new games concepts. Like metal Sonic wanting Shadow clones because he's a good copy of Sonic in Sonic heroes. Even in Shadow the hedgehog they make it seem like it was a joint effort. The real question is whether or not Sonic was presented as an ultimate life form in the past. If you want to get to the bottom of the iceberg try to figure out why they were copying Sonic before he was alive. Time travel has been a thing in Sonic games but they've never touched this. It can also play into the idea that Sonic getting his powers is a concept that could have been established before he existed. The Archie comics deal with all of these things very well but it's not canon. A part of me wishes that it was Canon because then they can make better games but they always seem to ignore the continuity.

[@GiveGodCredit]

The characters talking over each other in the ship cutscene seemed so intentional💀

[@JohnnyVector]

Yeah it was probably was to be honest. A lot of comments on this video have helped me realise I actually kind of like it

[@trashlord3214]

22:07 Actually, that's an alternate version of Bunnie, though it's a pretty popular fan theory that Bunnie getting roboticized early in life might've kept her from developing N.I.D.S. herself.

[@flaregamer64]

I'm loving all the SA2 content that has been popping up in my recommendations. Nice video btw!

[@JohnnyVector]

Thanks a lot!

[@NinjaKingAce]

I always thought it would be neat if Sonic was a clone of Shadow, or maybe an attempt to recreate the Ultimate Lifeform

[@somedudenamedaaron3239]

Or what if Eggman decided to create another ultimate lifeform and test it by making it the enemy to him.

[@TheMGMfan]

Fun fact, I used to think that the Biolizard was actually Chaos in a new form for some reason. I think part of it was SA2 being the sequel to SA1, which meant it only made sense to kid me that Chaos would appear in both, and it probably didn’t help that I only played SA1 as a kid, even then not beating it until 2017 or 18 (it should be noted that I was born in 2003, so I grew up in the early 2010s and just so happened to be into retro gaming), so before playing SA2 in 2019, I didn't know what the Biolizard actually was. However, the biggest thing I remember making me think they were the same character was how similar the Biolizard was in appearance to Perfect Chaos, which I find interesting given the theory of Gerald basing his inventions after ancient echnidnan murals, including the one of Perfect Chaos for the Biolizard. EDIT: I also gotta say that those Christian-themes SA2B ads are the best worst thing to ever come out of Sonic hand down. I get what they were going for, it's clearly based of the idea of Good vs. Evil that serves as the basis for the whole game, but to demonstrate that by putting biblical imagry and stuff in an ad for a Sonic game is so dumb and so funny. This is also the first time I ever heard of these, which makes sense as I'm an American and judging by the latter ad being in German and the former one saying that it was distributed by Infogrames, which was only the case in Europe, I believe this campaign only happened there. Point is, I'm glad I know about this.

[@JohnnyVector]

Thanks! Yes, I saw those ads in game magazines so it was probably limited to Europe. I also had a fried who was convinced the Biolizard was Chaos as well! Haha, good memories.

[@madokalover]

The regular Knuckles/Rouge pyramid stages have Chao hieroglyphs on the walls. The Hard Mode mission of Meteor Herd has two red GUN robots not seen anywhere else. There's a dark gray GUN robot enemy that bounces you back if you attack them (you can see them in Sky Rail). They can only be killed by Sonic using the optional Magic Gloves that you get in City Escape. However, there is only one of these enemies that you can encounter with Sonic. It's located in the bottom path at the beginning of the Hard Mode version of Green Forest. In SA2B's 2-player mode, if you play Green Forest as Metal Sonic and hold B to activate his shield at the beginning of the level before he hits the ground, you'll gain so much speed that you'll fly off the stage and underneath it, but you won't die. Instead, you fall forever. The camera will even pan up to let you see the stage disappear in the distance. The Chao World has a physical location on the map in the Stage Select screen. Is it actually located there? Hidden Base is the only level in the game with 2 Chao containers instead of 3. You're pretty much 100% done with the game when you unlock Green Hill Zone but the game still ranks you at the end. It's the only A rank that isn't used to unlock anything. Tails and Eggman can attack Chao in the Chao Garden if you cycle through your available B button actions with Y (on Gamecube). Otherwise they can't harm Chao at all. You can dig up pumpkin and skull hats (skulls in the Dark Garden, pumpkins in the other two) randomly (very low chance) with Rouge and/or Knuckles. They sell for 50 rings. Some of the randomly chosen Chao names are names of people and organizations that worked on the game (usually they are the names in all caps). Despite being a main selling point, Shadow is the character with the least amount of stages, with only 4, and the only character absent from Cannon's Core. The Chao Lobby music is from SA1, but I think it was unused there. IIRC the Hard Mode mission of Mission Street has less than 100 rings in it, so it would be impossible to complete the 100 rings mission in this version of the stage. Adding to the Biolizard/Chaos connection, the very last section of Cannon's Core right before the boss fight has a water slide in a large tribal/primitive-looking tunnel very similar to a section of Lost World from SA1. During this water slide only, the music changes to something similar to the music that plays during that section of Lost World. Cannon's Core in general and especially the Biolizard's room have water and stone structures reminiscent of the echidna tribe's architecture.

[@maiselph7456]

Correction: Mission Street in SA2B has 99 rings, so for the mission where you need to collect 100 of them you have to use the return ring and get the last ones at the beginning of the stage.

[@LARKXHIN]

I always took Pumpkin Hill theme as Knuckles' bluffing and not being honest.

[@AutumnWoodham]

Eggman petting a chao while continouslly going "Hedgehog. Hedgehog. Hedgehog. Hedgehog." oddly makes sense.

[@pgj1997]

28:27 According to TCRF... "These are actually supposed to be the roars that Biolizard makes after Knuckles finishes his speech to stop the Chaos Emeralds in Last Story, but because these clips are heavily filtered in the final game, you can't make them out."

[@ShrunkedDude]

28:10 now that you mention it, a palace beneath the sea and turtles. Sounds familiar with Sonic heroes level Ocean Palace!

[@Ness_and_Sonic]

Sonic X explains the moon thing as Robotnik rebuilds it himself, but he does it in a way that if you forgot he has an IQ of 300, you'd think he simply made a mistake and that Sonic's the villain. Sonic fixes his "mistake", though.

[@TheMooseOnTheLeft]

Also, the tidal locking of the half-destroyed moon is very possible irl. The moon is already tidally locked and the most dense part should rotate to face the earth if a big chunk went missing.

[@Miss-Alexis]

You've now covered my three favorite Sonic games, and in each one I learned at least one thing new. Good job!

[@JohnnyVector]

Thanks a lot!

[@segafan2437]

i never found the clipping voice lines to be a problem, i always saw it as more realistic, since the few times it did happen were erratic moments like combat or panic

[@Kurisu545]

Wow, and I was just i looking for iceberg videos.

[@mariomario761]

13:11 Me trying to name every person in the Great Josh Battle

[@yomilemondragon1721]

All these years I NEVER knew the floating particles in Security Hall were money. I always thought it was weird that there was random stone-looking debris floating around in this metal, industrial vault with no stone in sight. Also, I never thought the implication was that Shadow had implanted memories of Maria telling him to get revenge on Earth- I always thought he didn't quite remember what she said, but remembered his anger and fear in that moment and projected is own desire for revenge onto her words, creating false memories for himself organically.

[@Shadamyfan-rs8xc]

I think Shadow becoming tired after using chaos control can be explained by him being less experienced with the chaos emeralds, whilst Sonic had gone super several times before.

[@JohnnyVector]

Makes sense

[@catoticneutral]

17:50 Yuji Naka probably just didn't want to spoil Tails riding a mech.

[@JohnnyVector]

Haha yeah, decent theory

[@MLPPixel727]

Yes, BioLizard does look like Perfect Chaos. I wonder if it’s because of Chaos energy put into the Ultimate Lifeform.

[@ohsat_games]

20:28 It's common in Japanese to use numbers to spell words, which is made easier by the fact that numbers can be read in different ways (and with certain amounts of leeway when it comes to puns and wordplay). 38 could actually be read as "samba" (as a combination of san + ha(chi)). I thought the 34°N 12°E thing would be such a case as well, but I haven't been able to puzzle it out. Great video, by the way!

[@WaterKirby1994]

What if you played around with the coordinates some? Try 34S, 12W or 12N, 34E & see if you find anything then?

[@Mima_the_vengeful_spirit]

@@WaterKirby1994 12N; 34E leads to a lone pyramid in Soudan

[@WaterKirby1994]

@@Mima_the_vengeful_spirit That seems a lot more promising, all the hints in Mad Space are reversed, makes sense the music title there would referring to a reversed location as well.

[@robonaught]

22:07 That's Buns Rabbot the Anti-verse counterpart of Bunnie 29:12 Somebody actually made a disturbing Chao garden mod in regards to the poison bottle. The bottle becomes an item you give to a chao which upon giving will cause a chao to instantly die or reincarnate (depending on if it's happiness is high or low) regardless of how old it is. 29:36 The fish in the Black Market is actually a Half Fish. One of the animals you can give to your chao.

[@WolforNuva]

The water creature next to the black market guy is just a kappa, one of the rarer small animals you can give chao, so that's not especially strange.

[@amaya2728]

I just discovered your account today and I already adore your content! Looking forward to the future of this channel man you present stuff very well!💕

[@JohnnyVector]

Thank you for the nice comment! Glad to have you aboard.

[@romeants8049]

Awesome work, you have a very good voice for narration. And who doesn’t love sonic adventure? Subbed!

[@JohnnyVector]

Thank you!

[@TiagoMonteiroArt]

Interesting point, Sonic possibly being the real Ultimate Lifeform, and Prof. Gerald having inspired himself in prophecies of Sonic to create his own version of that powerful being. One thing that supports that theory, is that Sonic was able to perform Chaos Control with a fake emerald, after seeing Shadow do it only once, and with a real emerald at that. It's interesting how the game's storyline gives all these hints to keep us wondering instead of downright answering everything. It adds to the richness of the storytelling imo.

[@elisabethsun7059]

The unused voice clips at 28:43 aren’t really unused, if you layer them on top of each other it’s the Biolizard’s roar without the effects (specifically the one where it uses chaos control).

[@sanglish18]

The thing about Sonic being the ultimate life form is way simpler, during the Finalhazard boss Shadow says "Sonic, I think I know what the ultimate life form is... It might be you!"

[@WolforNuva]

That certainly helps (and should have been mentioned), but if it was just that line without anything else to make Shadow's status arguably questionable, the more obvious conclusion to draw would be that Shadow is simply complimenting/acknowledging Sonic's abilities, to imply that even though Shadow was made to be the ultimate lifeform, Sonic still managed to outclass him.

[@sanglish18]

@@WolforNuva I believe Shadow was an attempt to create the ultimate life form based on Gerald researches, while Sonic itself is some kind of legendary hero who was born naturally being an "ultimate life form", something like Link from Legend of Zelda.

[@WolforNuva]

@@sanglish18 Personally I agree, that seems much more likely than Sonic having been made by Gerald; considering that Sonic has *no* memory of Ark whatsoever, and I doubt Gerald would have buried a fake memory into Shadow of Maria telling him to make everyone happy, since that runs counter to his goal in manipulating Shadow's memory.

[@Crooked_Mantis]

@@WolforNuva I agree with both of you. Sonic would require far more memory alteration than even Shadow if he had been sent off by Maria on the ARK 50 years ago. Like, he believes himself to be a teen. Never has he claimed to be way older than any of his friends. He had to have been naturally born, with the murals being prophecies of his legendary status in the future. It's quite possible the Shadow from SA2 isn't the hedgehog sent to Earth by Maria, but I don't think that hedgehog was Sonic either.

[@CantRead1]

@@Crooked_Mantis There is a rumor that Sonic had post traumatic stress and it caused him to forget the events and hell, Sonic even mutters Maria's final line before her death at the end of the game possibly hinting that he remembers a tiny bit of it. I noticed that Shadow was found on prison Island not on the ARK and in the Japanese manual it says that the capsule was never found after it was launched on the ARK, possibly landing on Christmas Island were Sonic was supposed to be born

[@oreo_frito]

They really gotta remake the Adventure duology with some interconnectedness and finally make 3 become the true conclusion to project shadow being linked to sonic being the ultimate lifeform, along with the echidnas knowing of his coming leading to precaution of Chaos being mistaken for a interpretation of sonic based on their designs. Would be cool to see if it all ends with the end of the world being solely preventable with sonic giving up his life leading to the conclusion of the adventure story. Maybe even a remake of Sonic 2-3&Knuckles with animated scenes leading up to the Adventure story

[@tomtheconqerur]

21:35 when you said "nid's", I can't help but think of tyranids from 40k

[@astro6683]

holy crap, this came out at a perfect time thanks!

[@azimochaa]

28:53 Jesus fuck I was NOT expecting that scream 😭

[@andrewcritic2227]

I fell in love with this theoryes that havent any objective and in fact are just fanfictions

[@EveryoneDisagreesWithPJ]

for the part for the bad audio at the like rocket cutscene, I think it’s perfect doe cause it sounds like their real people fighting and cutting eachother off lol

[@v4603]

I’ve been on such an intense nostalgia kick with this game over the past few weeks, amazing timing for you to post this now, aaa

[@TheReZisTLust]

Soap eventually became Heelys and thats wonderful

[@pepeoccult4269]

Can't wait for SA3 to have Heelys.

[@TheReZisTLust]

@@pepeoccult4269 they already have it in SA2 but they got rid of the wheels and made them hover for the future tech

[@nitroarc5389]

15:20 About that. The creator he is talking about is Emi Jones, and Hunnid P didn’t just try to extort money, he also tried to extort *SEX* from Emi. So yeah, maybe it’s a good thing that he hasn’t worked with Sega recently.

[@JohnnyVector]

Oh damn, the iceberg gets deeper

[@WaterKirby1994]

That guy tried to do what to Emi? No wonder she hasn't streamed in a long time. I remember I used to really like taking part in her streams when I could. EmuEmi is a nice person, sucks that she got victimized so badly after moving out west to California. I remember at 1st I blamed myself for being too friendly to her by showing her my character & offering her an invite to a server for Cream Fans, which I got banned from 2 weeks later for being too depressed. It's awful the stuff that happened to her & regrettable she doesn't reach out for more support from her fans than just money. Hunnid P is a scumbag for the awful things he did.

[@nitroarc5389]

I don’t wanna edit this because of the heart, so here is a bit more context, Hunnid P and Emi collaborated on a song. They agreed that money that the song made would be split 50/50, though the song only made about 50 bucks. She sent him the 25 bucks and went on there way. Months later Hunnid accused her of owing him 1000 bucks and the Sex. Emi mentioned that the 1000 bucks and sex wasn’t apart of the deal. Hunnid also insulted multiple times and threatened both legal actions *and on top of that, beating her up.*

[@WaterKirby1994]

@@nitroarc5389 Is there any news on how EmuEmi is doing? Also when did Hunnid send those threats? I assumed it was within the past few months, although could Hunnid P have been harassing her for much longer? I hope Emi can recover from the horrible stuff that Hunnid tried to do to her.

[@nitroarc5389]

@@WaterKirby1994 This al happened around 1-2 years ago. And yes, she is doing fine.

[@ilovethelegend]

I suspect the test text in the Knuckles stage makes more sense in Japanese; Like, maybe those phrases are all spelled or pronounced similarly.

[@lautaromaria6040]

They are! Those "aparently" random phrases in english, are actually a play of words in japan

[@HeroesRiseUp]

Sonic Adventure 2 is not only my favorite Sonic game, but my favorite VIDEO GAME of all time. And I’m proud to say, I knew just about everything in this video before hand. 😏