Johnson 25 Hp Lean Sneeze Fix - No Carburetor Removal ! THIS OLD OUTBOARD

It's This Old Outboard. Tracey's 25 Hp Johnson started Sneezing Again! The Slow Speed Needle wasn't responding to any setting. Must be Clogged. I Did Not Want To Take The Carb Off so I thought I'd try something different. Follow the Real Life Saga & SUBSCRIBE TODAY ! You Never Know What's Gonna Happen Next ! It's This Old Outboard. Resurrecting Old Outboard Motors. YOU KNOW THE CHANNEL
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[@EthantheIncredible]

Your show has inspired me to continue tinkering with vintage motors.

[@THISOLDOUTBOARD1]

Yes keep at it! Thanks for tuning in !

[@MrEmersombiguns2002]

Good job, and love to hear him talk. The guy you want to know in your city, neighborhood!!!

[@THISOLDOUTBOARD1]

Thanks again !

[@frankstamps7053]

I have the same motor. A month ago the idle fuel path got clogged. I drained the carb and filled the fuel bowl with carb cleaner thru the vent passage on the upper front of the carb. I let it sit over night and then put the fuel line on the motor and ran it at the lake. The low speed jet was all cleaned out and it runs great now. our Ethanol gas around here causes many problems.

[@gillgetter3004]

Darn gasoline sucks, check your fuel line from tank I had one start dissolving once

[@THISOLDOUTBOARD1]

Sounds Good! Thanks for tuning in!

[@THISOLDOUTBOARD1]

Yeah new fuel lines!

[@TheSteelworker]

Sometimes all you gotta do is poke a couple things with your doohickey and it works out just fine! Good video! 👍

[@THISOLDOUTBOARD1]

Hahaha! Thanks for tuning in!

[@FredWilliams-yc1uj]

Sounds good!

[@THISOLDOUTBOARD1]

Hey. Thanks for tuning in!

[@mr.m6845]

I Have a 1990 25 Sneeze Horse and will give this a try. I had seen another post/ video where they stated there was a factory service bulletin for these engines, stating that you delay the opening of the throttle 1/4 in past the double notch in the ignition plate. This is done to eliminate misfires at idle and no wake speeds. His problem resembled the Lean Sneeze. Have you heard of such a modification to the Link and Sync????

[@THISOLDOUTBOARD1]

Hey. Thanks for tuning in. Yes I also did a video on that same service bulletin on my 1990 30 hp Johnson. And it worked. I can't really remember it having a bad sneeze issue, I'd have to go back and watch the videos again. It seemed to be more of a hard starting issue. It was a non running short shaft pull start model and after I got it running a six year old could have started it! Then I noticed the timing marks were a little off, didn't seem that much or a big deal, so I reset the carb/roller/cam timing and it was fine. Until the next day... Couldn't for the life of me figure out what happened, then an old retired OMC mechanic told me about the service bulletin and Bingo! I didn't get it at first, I was resettling it all over the place, It really didn't compute in my brain, hahaha, then he told me to go 1/4 - 1/2 inch past the mark that I wasn't going far enough. I think it ended up more around the 1/4 in. position past the second mark. I used that fix again on another outboard that did have a sneezing issue but it was a mid 80's outboard.? Thanks again & Stay tuned !

[@mr.m6845]

Good to Know. I will be Back at it this morning, as soon as it warms up a little. I t is 35 up here, North of Boston. I am getting a puff of smoke or vapor when she sneezes. I am thinking seals of some sort. If so will ever be able to dial this thing in ???? The Saga Continues.....@@THISOLDOUTBOARD1

[@TimsWorkshopTJY]

Dang, I hate when my red straw comes off too early🤣

[@THISOLDOUTBOARD1]

Hahaha! Thanks for tuning in!

[@want2bsailing804]

I need some Help !!! I have a 1986 Johnson. I rebuilt carb like 3 times put new coils and new power pack . It can’t get on a plane in water. It’s gutless. Any ideas please . Dealing with this issue for year now

[@THISOLDOUTBOARD1]

Hey. Thanks for tuning in. Go back to basics. You rebuilt the carb like 3 times, how many times did you clean it? First thing I would check is the high speed orifice/jet in the bottom of the carb bowl, they tend to get overlooked and no amount of carb cleaner will clean them out, they need to be "poked" out and "surgically clean", a toothpick works good, then sprayed and blown out with compressed air is best. Same with the low speed idle circuit, the tiny little holes in the top of the carb throat just behind the butterfly, use a bread tie, or some people use a small guitar string, spray and blown out. Do a "flashlight test" on the high speed jet. Check out my carb cleaning video if need be. So now your carb is smokin clean! Set up your link & sync. If the carb is not timed with the ignition it will be "gutless". Carb butterfly needs to just start to open as the cam follower or "roller", rolls in between the two marks on the throttle cam. Set the roller just before the first mark and use the "idle stop screw" to keep it in place, loosen the screw on the carb linkage so the butterfly is closed and tighten the screw back up, as you throttle up, the roller moves and starts to open the butterfly just as it passes the first mark. The roller only makes contact with the cam for a short period of time as it throttles up, then the "throttle control rod" takes over and the roller loses contact with the cam. Throttle up to wide open throttle/WOT, the butterfly should be perfectly horizontal in the carb at WOT, you can check this by looking at the "roll pin" on the end of the butterfly shaft, it should be perfectly vertical at WOT, if not adjust the stud/collar on the rod. So now that's all done! Set your "Slow Speed Needle" at 1.5 turns out, this will get you started, Start the motor and let it warm up, it should be idling all by itself, start to turn the SS Needle clockwise in small increments, about 1/8 turn at a time and give it a minute to adjust between turns, this is leaning out the air/fuel mixture, the rpm's should increase, what your looking for is a "lean sneeze", "cough" or "hiccup", at that point turn the needle back slowly until you hit a nice smooth idle, usually somewhere between a quarter to a half turn. Play around with it, you don't want it to fast or to slow. Now, you may already know and have done all of this, I don't know. I get this same problem/comment from viewers all the time. If everything else is good on your outboard then this should work. If you still have the same problem then you've got bigger fish to fry. Could be an air leak somewhere, clogged exhaust, bad compression, the list goes on. Some easy things to check = When you take the carb off, look at the reed valves through the intake manifold and make sure they look good, all the petals should be closed, clean. Check your fuel pump could have a bad/leaky diaphragm. Do a compression test. Check your fuel lines from the tank back, tank valve not working stuck closed, bad primer bulb, air leak in fuel line. Primer pump or Solenoid leaking, almost forgot about that one! When it starts bogging or gutless like you say, cut it off, pull the plugs out immediately and check if they're wet or dry, too wet its drowning too dry not enough fuel supply. One more thing! What may seem like a fuel issue could be an ignition problem and vice versa, but you got new coils and powerpack, the only thing left would be the charge coil/ driver coil may be going bad, usually they just give out and you'll have no spark, just a thought, but it would hurt to do a spark test. Spark should jump a 1/4 in + on a spark tester. Curious to find out what happens! Shoot/post some vids! LMK!

[@danielscrapper8207]

Anyone every used mercury quicksilver quickleen in the gas to clean a carburetor?? Looking to try it but would like opinions!

[@THISOLDOUTBOARD1]

Not me! Thanks for tuning in!

[@wish2fish37]

Had that nipple on my motor get a hunk of rubber from either hoses or oring in primer.Think if you use suction instead of trying to blow it out it gets whatever is in there out easier.

[@THISOLDOUTBOARD1]

Hey. Thanks for tuning in! Yeah suck and blow hahaha! Thanks again !

[@TheRIFLEMAN243]

I have a 1978 Evinrude 85hp. New stator, timer base, both power packs, new coils and plugs, carbs rebuilt and link & synced, new head gaskets and exhuast manifold gaskets, new chris carson reeds, new intake manifold gasket and new thermostats and relief valves and springs, new lower powerhead gasket. All these parts are new, no leaks all adjustments to timing are correct bit it still seems to run a little rough and run rich and load up at idle. The low speed and high speed jets are non adjustable. What would make it run rich? Is this just the way it's supposed to run? I feel like it should idle a bit smoother and a bit more cleaner.

[@THISOLDOUTBOARD1]

Hey. Thanks for tuning in. Are you running it in a tank/barrel or on muffs, just curious if there is a lot of unburned fuel/oil floating around in the water, or if on muffs its draining out the exhaust usually noticeable the next day. What may seem like a fuel issue could be an ignition problem and vice versa. I'm assuming it throttles up fine its more an idling issue. You said the carbs were rebuilt, were the floats set properly, there are two adjustments, carb upside down float set level with the carb body resting on the needle, turn the carb right side up and there's a measurement for how far the float should drop?. I don't know off hand what it is, if you have a manual it will tell you. If you don't have one try ebay for a good used OMC manual specific to the year/model, they have a great troubleshooting section too. I'm looking at 78 85hp carbs right now, there seems to be two styles for that year/models, but they are very similar. I really don't have any experience with those carbs but I would guess they all work in the same manner. That's where I would start, I know its a pain in the azz but I've heard this story many times before. If the slow speed idle circuit is clogged it will pull fuel through the mid/high speed and idle poorly. Check the inside throat of a carb just around the butterfly and see if you can see any tiny holes for the idle circuit, these holes are hard to clean, they need to be poked 99% of the time, use a bread tie wire or some people use a guitar string, blow them out with cleaner and compressed air. You may have already done this but something could still have come loose and stuck in there, similar to what I just went through with this 25hp. Also check the fuel pump diaphragm could have just a pinhole in it. A couple of quick things you can try is take off the silencer and pump up the primer and look for any leaks in the carbs. Also try to run it on only two cylinders at a time like its two separate outboards, basically thats what it is. Run the top two pistons first, then the bottom two, this will help find which fuel system/carb may be the culprit. Also one more thing I like to add, these old outboards sometimes don't take well to what the manual says, for instance that old 87 70 horse I use to work on, the one with the skull on the hood, don't know if you ever saw any of those videos but that thing wanted to run where it wanted to run! Hahaha I set that link n sync by the manual til I was blue in the face and always ended up resetting back to where I had it. She just didn't like the manual's settings! Anyway if it turns out not to be a fuel issue a least you'll know for sure, and never ever assume anything with these old outboards, just because it "looks good" or "looks clean" means nothing. Curious to know what happens! Thanks again !

[@TheRIFLEMAN243]

@@THISOLDOUTBOARD1 Yes I've actually watched all of your videos going back to I think 5-6 years. I used to come home every day and watch your videos. I think I'm all caught up at this point!🤣 I do remember that engine with the skull on it and what you had to do. I run my engine in a big 100 gallon oblong water bucket I got from a farm supply store. It works perfect. Yes you're right, it's more of an idle issue. It runs really well at high speed. I can however feel a very very very slight miss or off timing shake up to 3,000 rpm though. Once it gets past that 3,000 rpm then it suddenly clears right up and I can actually feel it on the steering wheel like the engine is suddenly running on correct timing. But like I said it's very very slight. Most people don't feel it or think it's fine. I've been a mechanic my entire life unfortunately 🤣 and I can tell that this is a fuel or timing issue but I have chased everything and replaced and updated everything I can think of. I have noticed a while back that the throttle plate is brass for the top carb and the throttle plate is steel for the lower carb. I have been wondering if this is an issue and the carbs are slightly off even though they are 100% synced. I've measured all the low and high speed jets using the solid end of micro drill bits that I pre-measured with micrometers and all the jets are exactly. 025 for idle and .045 for high speed. I did adjust the idle timing up a bit to 5° btdc instead of what the book calls for at 4° btdc. It seemed to help a tiny bit. I even unhooked the timer base from the throttle linkage and moved it forward and backward by hand the idle speed went up as I advanced the timer base and the idle speed went down as I retarded the timer base. But I can still feel that very very slight off timing issue. The 5° btdc did help a little though but going past that didn't do too much other than make the idle speed go up. The new Chris carson reeds did help quite a bit but I still have that what seems to be a very rich sick idle and a very light stumble up to 3,000 rpm. I'm beginning to wonder if in fact one of those carburetors are in fact wrong because of the different color throttle plates. I even decked the float bowls on them to make them seal up and not weep at the seal. Worked perfect. I wish you see some of the videos I have of it running throughout all the repairs over the last few months so you could see everything I'm talking about. Maybe your eye would catch something that I have no idea about. Oh yeah and the bulb pumps up hard and does not let any fuel into the carb throats. It has a new bulb line and fuel filter and a new fuel pump also. The bulb pumps up hard and stays hard while you sit there and hold pressure on it. It won't soften up at all so I know everything is staying sealed up perfectly. I swear I think it's a timing issue or those carbs are in fact different even though they have the same idle and high speed jets. I did measure the floats on both carburetors twice and I have went back and made sure all the idle speed jets are clear and all the tiny make up holes in the carb throats are clean too but like you said maybe stuff could be getting back into them but I doubt it because I've cleaned them a few times trying to fix this. Also it does seem to run and feel slightly better when it's running cold. Then once it warms up then I can just tell that it's idling a little bit rich and the very slight off timing feel comes back and stays there until I get it up to 3,000 rpm.

[@THISOLDOUTBOARD1]

@@TheRIFLEMAN243 Hey. Thanks for tuning in all these years, I appreciate it! I kinda had the feeling "you've been there and back" with that thing and all you've done on it. I'd be happy to watch your vids. I would try the running it on 2 cylinders at a time thing and see what happens. Your suspicions may be true. I had a beautiful late model Johnson 25 remote, couldn't get it to idle unless I held two fingers over the carb like a manual choke. I must have cleaned that carb 4-5 times and no help. I was about to tear the motor apart or just shoot it! Then I took an old 70's 25 carb and slapped it on and Boom she purred like a kitten! I took that carb totally apart again but still could not find anything wrong or clogged. Weird! I threw it in the garbage. LMK if you post some vids and what happens next! Hahaha luv the suspense! Thanks again !

[@TheRIFLEMAN243]

@@THISOLDOUTBOARD1 ok I'll try running 2 cylinders at a time and see if I can isolate it. I'll post some videos up on my channel later today. I'll let you know when they've uploaded. I'll also post my results on the isolation of the cylinders test. It's raining like hell so I'll try it tomorrow afternoon. Thank you very much! I truly appreciate your input!

[@TheRIFLEMAN243]

@@THISOLDOUTBOARD1 Ok, I'm uploading a video from a couple weeks ago now of it idling. I also left some info in the description of the video also. Please tell me what your opinion is.

[@ct1762]

that looks like the little 40hp venturi carb. the 30hp should have the larger 1 1/2'' carb on it or i may have missed a video?

[@THISOLDOUTBOARD1]

Hey. Thanks for tuning in! That's my neighbors 25 hp. Thanks again !

[@georgekeats1478]

That many turns out was the biggest clue for sure that it needed another carb cleaning. But it sounds great now. Is the owner using an in-line fuel filter? Another great episode in the continuing saga, right here before your very eyes!

[@THISOLDOUTBOARD1]

Hey. Thanks for tuning in! No he's not, I think it's time for new fuel lines. My motor too. Thanks again !

[@mikeelder6298]

I got a 1995 J25TEEOR. It's not running right.

[@THISOLDOUTBOARD1]

Hey. Thanks for tuning in. Maybe it's time for a good tune up! Thanks again !

[@desmondmarais5044]

Yeah baby l know the channel.

[@THISOLDOUTBOARD1]

Hey. Thanks for tuning in!

[@jimmyhoffa7935]

All be dipped🔧

[@THISOLDOUTBOARD1]

Hey. Thanks for tuning in!

[@danielrobert7181]

Also experienced a 30 hp with a clogged primer. Fortunately, mine finally cleared up after pressing repeatedly on the primer botton. But before that line opened-up, the motor would need serious cranking before srarting and wasn't running all that well. But afterwards, it was bliss. That priming system may require close maintenance but it will improve starting drastically. Thanks !

[@THISOLDOUTBOARD1]

Hey man. Thanks for tuning in! Is that a new mug shot? Yeah you'd get one good pull and next one you'd get the clog! it's been happening for awhile even though I could shoot the fuel through the fuel line. Whatever was in there blocking the needle is gone now. I think it needs new fuel lines. My motor too!

[@danielrobert7181]

Yep the ''TOO-LOOK'' beard is the new thing !

[@hammer9856]

It's the Terminator Outboard... "I'll be back!" ...Well let's hope not.

[@THISOLDOUTBOARD1]

"Come with me if you want to live" Haha thanks for tuning in!

[@Kyle-bb9zp]

Nothing like a 2 stroke idling/running

[@THISOLDOUTBOARD1]

Hey. Thanks for tuning in!

[@artstates960]

Oww! Got some carb clean in my eye. 😮 Used air to blow out a mower carb and it worked ok. Too many weeds- too much doo doo in the water.

[@THISOLDOUTBOARD1]

Yeah Lake Weedy Kah Kah! Thanks for tuning in!

[@Kyle-bb9zp]

I thought you'd buddy had a 40 everude on the back of his boat. Not a 25 Johnson. Just was wondering

[@THISOLDOUTBOARD1]

No, he wants to put a 40 on it. Thanks again !

[@Kyle-bb9zp]

@@THISOLDOUTBOARD1 ok thanks

[@bryanmorrion9503]

It would be nice occasionally to show us which nut etc / screw that you are adjusting. I have an old johnson 25 commercial very similar to the ones you work on But for the life of me im not sure of the way to advance or retard the timing. I recon it would make a great video. 👍🦘🦘🇦🇺

[@THISOLDOUTBOARD1]

Hey. Thanks for tuning in. I don't think you can advance/retard the timing on a Capacitive Discharge Ignition (CDI). You could on the old Breaker Points ignition. My question is "why". The best you can do is to Synchronize the Timing for it to run right. Your best bet is to pickup an OMC Service Manual specific to your year/model. I really don't know much about the Commercial models so a manual may be good to have and it will Save You Time, it has a great troubleshooting section too. Try ebay for a good used one. Anyway, I've done a lot of videos on which nut/screw I'm turning! Hahaha, although I really don't do "How To" videos, we have enough of those guys, I do "Had To" videos, because that's what I "Had To" do to get it up & running! Here's one that might help you out from 2 years ago, same outboard, basically same problem. kzbin.info/www/bejne/mXjQiICkrJ6hrZY . Have any questions don't hesitate to ask, always around to help out. Thanks again & Stay tuned!