Joining the Mormon Church at BYU - Liz Lambson Pt. 2 | Ep. 1724

Content Warning: Mental illness, self-harm, suicide
We continue Liz’s journey as she goes to BYU and gets baptized. Liz explains her interactions with church and BYU culture, and the effect of “worthiness” interviews w/LDS leadership once she is an official member.
At BYU Liz struggles to fit in with white culture and begins struggling with symptoms of mental illness along with outbursts of creativity. Things get heavy with a friend’s suicide as she battles her own depressive thoughts.
iz's Instagram: @lizzylambson
Liz's Music & Social Media: linktr.ee/lizlambson
“Never Too Soon”
Spotify: open.spotify.com/track/19Det7...
Apple Music: music.apple.com/us/album/neve...
KZbin: music.apple.com/us/album/neve...
Amazon Music: amz.run/6N6t
Chapters
00:00:00 Introduction
00:08:20 Academics & Dating at BYU: The “Promised” Land
00:26:20 Baptism in Switzerland: “Best day of my life.”
00:38:20 Working at the Utah Shakespeare Festival, Dad gets remarried.
00:40:45 Dating Stan when he finishes his mission.
00:44:15 Scrupulosity & damaging Bishop interviews
00:52:30 Breaking up w/Stan & other dating woes
01:19:00 “Unworthiness” causes Liz to feel unredeemable & leads to depression, self-harm, suicidal ideation
01:32:00 Managing her bipolar symptoms, OCD, scrupulosity, along with creative bursts
01:51:15 Therapy at BYU
01:56:30 Gay friend comes home & comes out
01:58:00 Liz considers encouragement by a non-LDS musician to leave BYU.
02:03:15 Another difficult bishop. Says “Maybe BYU isn’t the place for you.”
02:05:00 Conversation with gay RM friend when he came out. Mental gymnastics as a sport.
02:10:30 Finding out her gay Mormon friend died by suicide. Feeling jealousy.
Episode Show Notes
www.mormonstories.org/podcast...
Liz Lambson Playlist | Mormon Stories
• Playlist
ABOUT US:
Mormon Stories Podcast is the longest-running and most successful podcast in Mormonism - hosted by Dr. John Dehlin. At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We also occasionally interview scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals. Our overall mission is to: 1) Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology, 2) Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis, and 3) Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions.
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[@beetledriver7]

Again, thank you for sharing Liz's story. I was in the BYU orchestra when her (and my) friend died by suicide, and it was one of the defining events of my time there. Liz's courage and compassion continue to shine even now. Just like she said - the toxicity of BYU harmed me, Liz, our friend, and so many others. Eagerly looking forward to the next part of her interview!

[@stviz87]

Converted at 15 in eastern Europe. I can say that the church the missionaries were selling was not the church I joined. As a missionary i got disgusted by the character worship of the mission president and the temple was soooo disturbing. BYU was the final straw, i totally left the church and do not miss it at all

[@debinindiana]

Thanks for sharing your story…I seem to have a thirst in my 60’s for learning about other religions, after being raised a sheltered Baptist in a small town. This is like a book I can’t put down!😊

[@mommarichman]

I relate to Liz's story so much. I joined the church at 13, only member in my family, was so devoted to all the rules and culture, at 16 I had 4 callings, graduated high school a. year early and went to BYUH at 17. What a powerful story to share and the courage, I am thankful.

[@gretchenprice7651]

I listened to the whole series in podcast form but had to come back to KZbin to see the outfits! Loved this one. Thanks for sharing your story, Liz!

[@fleurhufflepuff2198]

Omg Liz is pure art! I love her immediately! Her confidence shines through, and it is so inspiring! Love the whole thing abt the custume change. Love her hair! Absolutely love her storytelling and how she's conducting it so brilliantly. (I haven't seen part one yet, but I will). Absolute love this series!

[@mormonstories]

Totally!

[@rubendhoyos9886]

2:12:30 I was at BYU when that happened and I totally remember that incident, and it was announced while I was at Concert Choir. Never mentioned was that he was a closeted gay person, some of my friends that knew him told me that he was gay. That year, I was selectively coming out to people at the time. That’s how I knew he was LGBTQ and this became a shelf item.

[@weeza8739]

I love the gymnastics metaphors. I can absolutely relate! Some of us tried so hard to achieve something that is impossible for our bodies...and it wasn't our fault. So powerful.

[@anzbatman2297]

Thank you for sharing Liz...as a Mormon I gave up on my true love because I believed I would never be good enough, worthy enough for her. I married another Mormon girl who has personality disorders and I've suffered in silence with depression for decades. All our 4 children suffer from mental illness. It was only after leaving Mormonism and looking outside of church for answers that my life started to get so much better. Knowledge has set me free but there's still so much mental work to do. It seems as though religion attracts & cloaks those who have insidious personality disorders.

[@Zorazora1234]

Wow this is so sad. Grateful you are free to heal …

[@heatherh4272]

Liz, your story is so powerful. Thank you for being vulnerable and brave enough to share all this hard stuff. I am looking forward to part 3.

[@kkeiter]

The bishop roulette thing in the LDS church disproves these men's authority all together

[@t.thompson9977]

What great episode. Part 1 was just as great and I’m sure part 3 will be fantastic. Liz your an intelligent, strong, creative, amazing woman. Thank you for sharing your journey thus far

[@aaronbacon591]

This is the best Mormon stories podcast series ever .. can’t wait for part 3 … Liz’s story telling is amazing …

[@margybernard]

I noticed the change of clothes at once. That’s an artist of course. 😊👩🏼‍🎨

[@kkeiter]

I can tell Liz is a very special person. Love her story

[@caseyjude5472]

What an amazing young person I’ve gotten to learn about. Thank you Liz for sharing so much with us. I eagerly await watching part 3!

[@mormonstories]

Thank you so much!

[@daylestevens50]

I noticed the costume change right away and love it and this story! 💙💛

[@Moundfreek]

I get a hit of dopamine when she mentions all of these familiar Colorado Springs places. But seriously, Liz's courage in telling her story is an inspiration. P.S. The trail in question is the Santa Fe trail.

[@jennifernewton9539]

I love Colorado Springs. I’m moving there soon.

[@sallyostling]

Yep. It feels like you are in your own reality "planet". Which can be amazing and feel great, so good I sometimes miss it. Or it can be completely destructive, devastating and that I certainly do not miss. Undiagnosed you don't see that. I can categorize my life looking back at where I was mentally, manic or not. Very relatable to Liz.

[@oldchandrilan4093]

Liz is such an excellent storyteller. I am enjoying this series with her so much

[@conductorsearle]

Nevermo here, but a big fan of MS. I'm also a fellow musician and am so appreciative of Ms. Lambson for sharing her story. Being a music student alone can be a real psychological struggle for young people in a country that doesn't really value the arts. I can't imagine trying to do it surrounded by the poisonous, shaming culture of Mormonism. Thank you for these episodes. I'm also a Rush fan, so props to John for the Geddy Lee mention!

[@amanda_weber1]

I'm loving this story, Liz. Thank you for being vulnerable. Margi is such a compassionate and thoughtful co-host as well.

[@brothernobody1775]

Bipolar is a helluva drug, glad you figured out how to ride the cyclone, Liz. It's never going to be perfect, it's never going to be easy, but you make survival look worth it.

[@bestoffriends703]

This was just as good as the first. Excellent story teller… thank you for sharing

[@backthebusup]

I’m loving this series

[@shewearsfunnyhat]

I relate to finding names for things. I thought I was broken because I am no sex drive or attraction to others. I am not broken I am asexual. There are others like me. I no longer feel alone

[@kristimaeblue]

Thank you for talking about the struggles of parenthood. It's not for everybody and unfortunately many people don't know until they have children. It's not something you can be prepared for. So often if struggles of parenting are discussed in society, then you are labeled as a bad and ungrateful parent. So sad.

[@FrenchyTaylor]

Thank you Liz for sharing this part of your story with us. What a beautiful complex human you are.

[@beckyobeck]

Thank you for sharing.

[@esthekatie]

First, thank you so much Liz for sharing your story. Second, John and Margi can you please add a more intense trigger warning for 2 hrs and 15ish on.. the portion talking about Liz’s feelings about talking about her friend Allen’s suicide. I love this story so much but wow wow when it’s said out loud about the envy of being able to follow through ect that’s a radical truth I wasn’t expecting and not so positive for me to hear at the moment. Again, all love to you Liz and I really appreciate your story 💖💖💖

[@margybernard]

Love the specs

[@divatesteddivaapproved]

The first Ad I saw when I opened this episode was from BYU.... LOL

[@aspackblaze3583]

Geddy Lee reference! Epic

[@mrsspeech]

I am so sorry.

[@fleurhufflepuff2198]

1:13:39 about the double standard regarding discipline and consequences when a girl/woman does something vs when a boy/man does the same thing. I have a "funy" story. During my mission it became kinda of a joke (because it did happened probably quite a lot) that if an Elder wanted to be promoted to zone leader or AP they should get a girlfriend (sister missionary, investigador, convert, member). I heard of Elder and a Sister missionary there who started dating each other during mission. The mission president found out and the sister, who was a sister training Leader, had her calling "downgrated" to just a regular senior companion while the Elder was promoted to zone leader or something. Make it make sense. They probably said something abt how he got promoted to give him more responsibility and opportunity to work closer to the president or whatever, but shouldn't this apply to the sister as well?

[@klpartydecor]

I am curious if her mother suffered through bipolar disorder in silence and that is why she left.

[@jennifernewton9539]

I just thought the same thing. It really makes sense.

[@klpartydecor]

@Jennifer Newton I have seen bipolarism close up and the need to runaway is there. Definitely intrigued and wanting an episode 3 even though I'm not done yet with this one.

[@bestoffriends703]

I’m sure

[@raylawler13]

It's always interesting to see how often women receive much worse consequences than men when repenting of sexual sin. I totally believe this is the case, but my experience has been the exact opposite. I don't know if it's just bad luck or if it's the nature of the way I confessed or what, but I almost always had pretty harsh consequences for sin.

[@Maryfs1]

I relate to so much about her life! Thank you for sharing your story! 😊😊

[@lovebaileymarin]

This new trailer fucking slays.

[@tendymoyomazuru]

Sidenote: John, your wife is so cute! Lol

[@samsngdevice5103]

Someone should make a video a out how in the bible it says that the sun was created after the planet earth.

[@godsoffspring4195]

The Bible does not say or teach the sun was created after the earth! And God said: "let there be light" which is the creation of the sun on the very first day of time concerning this creation. The sun was created before the earth. Then the earth was formed as were the other planets of this solar system throughout the billions of years during days 2&3. On day 4 when the earth's atmosphere cleared of it's translucent mists and the heaven's could be seen.... the sun and stars are mentioned now because they can be seeable from a man's perspective as if he was standing on the earth at that time. The Bible is written as if a man was watching creation from the earth. That is the only way the ancients could relate and God teaches Man according to our ability to understand according to the times. :>)

[@samsngdevice5103]

@@godsoffspring4195 Dummy, it does too! In the beginning darkness was upon the land so let there be light. The second or third day he created the two light sources 12 guide the day from the night which is the Sun and Moon so if it existed before why would they be saying he created it again? Currently you have no comprehension

[@samsngdevice5103]

@@davidjanbaz7728 Check out the KZbin video titled Top 10 reasons the Bible le is repulsive and then comment back bout the sabbath day of rest.

[@paulamacdonald7070]

❤️🧡💛💚💙💜

[@silviayanes5128]

No exceptions if you are a convert after you get baptized you have to wait a year to get a temple recomend.

[@beboystyle620]

I felt like I had more of a disciplinary action against me than my, at the time, gf. Could it be because she was white and I’m not?

[@jennifernewton9539]

Probably because the bishop thought since you hold the priesthood that the man is more responsible for whatever happened. I saw this happen to a friend. The guy was from Africa and the gf was white. The bishop was not white.

[@raylawler13]

I also had harsher consequences than mine. We are both white, but at the time I assumed it was because I was endowed and she was not.

[@beboystyle620]

@@jennifernewton9539 takes 2 to tango! But I get it!

[@UtahTrucker]

What was the word that John used for religious perfection?

[@lizzylambson]

Scrupulosity/scrupulous

[@UtahTrucker]

@@lizzylambson Thank you, enjoying your story

[@lokinsea]

She is a human version of chat GBT.

[@charlesmendeley9823]

ChatGPT is super knowledgeable about Mormonism. It's amazing!

[@timetravelere1208]

Never saw someone narrate that well. It's like listening to a book

[@oritigra]

So, corset over the shirt and bra over the garments))

[@blckprsthd4791]

@Dub Wub: OMG! You called it the "Mormon" religion. I think that would be "one giant leap" of "victory for Satan"

[@kkeiter]

Her first bishop's interview after being a new convert makes me sick. This was some sheltered dumb hick judging her who was her bishop. This is so messed up. And it ruined her relationship

[@thomaspearson1919]

[ 1 ] Message to all Mormons around the world Corinthians 15 - 46... The physical body, comes before the spiritual just saying but true.

[@godsoffspring4195]

Haven't watched any of John's videos for a few years. Boy.... he's sure looking beat up from kicking against the pricks. Not much light left in those brown eyes John.

[@amygreen758]

That's a very culty, Mormon comment-- to think anyone cares about your opinion of John's "countenance" lol.

[@godsoffspring4195]

@@amygreen758 ... Hi Amy. I'm not a Mormon nor espouse any cult organizations so not sure how that might be a culty Mormon comment. I'm all ears on that one. Just thought I'd let John know it shows to those who notice the diminishing oomph he used to have railing against the LDS faith with an apparent sparkle of hope, now looking quite monotone. Just another day at the office I guess. As for any readers caring about my opinion or not, well... thank you for being the first to reply. :>)

[@Chocolala20]

Jesus is the only way!!! Not the LDS church, not christianity, not catholicisim, the church is not an organization or a building, the church is the people who are disciples of Christ. Jesus cares about every detail of your life, God bless you all.

[@colinfoy]

Not to yuk your yum but for me, it's hard to reconcile Jesus with all the terrible things Jesus has been used for. Christians have killed and hurt soooooo many people in Jesus's name. Colonization, The Inquisition, witch trials/burning, The Holocaust, mass shootings, systematic sexual abuse, etc etc etc. If we didn't have Christianity, think how much murder and abuse we would've avoided. If Jesus is so good, why's he responsible for so many dead bodies? (Let alone all the non-death suffering)

[@Chocolala20]

Not every body that calls theirselves Christians are christians or are moved by the word of God as there are this kind of people in every type of religion that’s why God is the only way not religion that is modified by people and culture but his word still remains and will never change. We live in a sinful world because of the Fall when Adam and Eve chose to disobey God. God has given every individual the freedom to choose to do what is right or to do evil.

[@jennifernewton9539]

@@colinfoy good question. I think terrible things happen because God/Jesus doesn’t intervene. Humans are plain mean to each other.

[@colinfoy]

That’s true. People will use anything to justify causing suffering. Was Jesus just caught up in an inevitable pattern of mythologizing gods who’s name we can invoke in order to murder people? Idk if I’d go get myself killed knowing I was going to be used to justify all that violence. Jesus goes hard.

[@ehhhh765]

@@Chocolala20 so then how do you tell the Christians apart of they all call themselves the same thing? 🤔

[@DarcyTheManstop]

Get these heretics away from my recommended