JOKER: Folie a Deux REVIEW - A SECRET MASTERPIECE?

Joker 2 Review! Go to tryfum.com/SCREENCRUSH or scan the QR code and use code SCREENCRUSH to get your free FÜM Topper when you order your Journey Pack today.
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Written and Hosted by Ryan Arey ( ryanarey)
Edited by Harriet Lengel-Enright, Randolf Nombrado, and Lee Mazzio
Featuring:
Brianna McLarty @briannatmclarty on Instagram and Tiktok!
Colton Ogburn ( ColtonOgburn)
Cameron Kasky cameronkasky
#Joker2 #Review #Reaction

[@ScreenCrush]

Go to tryfum.com/SCREENCRUSH or scan the QR code and use code SCREENCRUSH to get your free FÜM Topper when you order your Journey Pack today.

[@FumarMota]

The fact you're using The Marvels as the standard for how "good" this movie is says all I need to know

[@Kanoog]

🤣😆🤣😆

[@alexandr33031]

💀🤣

[@Jbrizzle92]

I like how how ryan is like this is a good movie and the guest are like no

[@tnshanobighost6749]

2 of the guests. Did you watch the last guest

[@h2ojr1]

Ryan is an optimist to a painful degree, but thats why we love him; always Mr. Brightside

[@Burritobandits]

Ryan doesn’t want his channel to get blacklisted and wants to continue to receive early review access to shows and movies so he can make content. We get it but it’s soooooo painfully obvious it makes it cringe to watch.

[@deshawnjenkins9765]

@@BurritobanditsI honestly skip videos like this and madam web reviews 😭 just here for the comments

[@davidwindell]

Ryan isn’t an optimist at all, he’s a shill. In 2-3 months when the studios don’t care anymore, he will be bashing the hell out of this movie like the rest of us. He’s incentivized to pretend this is a great movie, so he does… until he doesn’t. He’s done the exact same thing with She Hulk, Quantummania, and every other terrible show that has come out the last 4 years.

[@claudiocampusanorojas4090]

I kinda disagree with her. There definitely can be a Harley Quinn story where she is the dominant person/abuser, it just seems this movie didn't do it right. The Telltale Batman game sorta did it, and it came out as a relly interesting take.

[@MisTer_xAv1eR]

The audio drama Harley Quinn and The Joker: Sound Mind does this too while still sticking closer to the source material. Their entire relationship in Arkham is her using the Joker to get what she wants until she finally snaps and turns into Harley Quinn

[@GlynTaylor]

There are ways they can switch it so they both abuse each other in different ways, bringing out the worst in each other. There is wild wild wild potential in Joker and Harley stories. But here we are making the worst movie of all time instead

[@davidcota1583]

I also felt like the roles of the relationship between Joker and Harley were reversed because of how her manipulation on a very sick man

[@CaseyPriceForsakenhero]

​@@davidcota1583totally!

[@LarryPJ]

Apparently Art doesn't matter... it's all about the vibes of those who are way too close to "the source material".

[@cpedersen474]

Listening to Brianna, this movie should have been titled "Joker- Double Standard".

[@DarthTheron]

It's such a weird take. I don't understand what Harley fans want from her. Do they want her to become a hero, anti-hero, super villain? It's very weird to me.

[@markpostgate2551]

​@@DarthTheron They can't be of one mind since Harley has changed from her roots already, and the idea of an "emancipatef Harley Quinn" who is still Harley Quinn doesn't make any sense if that persona is the Joker's creation - if the narrative is she became Harley Quinn under the Joker's influence, she is now free of the Joker's influence but she is still the person the Joker made her into - it's an incoherent have cake and eat it development, and to use the excuse of "Stockholm syndrome" (a phenomenon that may not even exist irl) in order to ignore the hybristophillic elements of the character as the current mainstream depictions do, is a half-hearted sanatisation to make the character role model worthy when she shouldn't be a role model anyway; she was never intended to be a role model by her original creators.

[@benawhile4267]

Why is everyone taking it so personally? It wasn't done to you. The director wanted to tell a story. He did that. You've projected yourselves onto him and harley, and when they dont live up to your expectations, you turn on it and say it's trash. exactly how his fans and lee left the courtroom after arthur said he was never joker. highlighting the quote he said that no one cares about him, just the joker. you dont want a story of a mentally/physically abused delusional loner and the gritty of it. you wanted a character to idolize. the director didnt wrong anyone.

[@kymerahYT]

100% this movie separates the sociopaths from the regular person. People hate having a mirror placed in front of them, telling them that they’re the psychos.

[@Internatube]

Yeah for real. Brianna seemed like she was honestly projecting her own insecurities onto her distaste of the film. The film is just a film.

[@nardlane1578]

Because asking someone to part ways for your product is a personal thing. If we don't like it we have a right to voice it. Besides I haven't heard anyone personally attack Todd Phillips. Just his crappy movie. It makes it worse when the fans feel like they're being antagonized. Also didn't like the 1st one either. Neither one of these character studies should have been made if he's not going to study the character.

[@michaelfang1393]

It's almost as if the audience got that mindset of Harley. Harley broke up with Arthur because to her, he is not THE JOKER.... everyone broke away from seeing this is a good movie because they think they're got THE JOKER, but just Arthur instead.

[@nardlane1578]

@michaelfang1393 people wanting to see the joker in a movie named the joker is crazy

[@John.0079]

Breanna's activism comes before her abilities to judge a character portrayed a new way.

[@adrianlozano782]

People don't seem to understand that the movie isn't making fun of fans of the first movie. It's making fun of the people that didn't understand what it's actually about, which is a mentally ill man tearing apart the system that failed him. This movie shows Arthur is still being taken advantage of, except it's not by society anymore, it's by his own "fans" that expect him to be something he's not. You can harp on about comic accuracy and all that, but comic accuracy really only matters if they're adapting a storyline by the same name, which this movie isn't. If you want a Joker origin story about The Joker, watch The Killing Joke

[@2025JustRandom]

Love your comment and totally agree. Joker in both films is in a struggle to find people who actually care about him and not a role he plays. Not him who is trying to act normal ("the worst thing about mental illness is people expect you to behave like you don't") or him acting as the leader of a movement/a symbol ("do I look like the clown who could start a movement?").

[@kevinsmithfan37]

You know what this reminds me of 2 very specific things that are basically the same thing. The "I didn't do it episode" of the simpsons and anyone who gets vidal fame eg the hatchet guy, hawk tuah backpack kid, the island boys. It all starts out well and organically, but in every case people who want to take advantage/ride that viral wave try to piggyback on that moment and in doing so they want to kind of shape the narrative the way they want and what happens is you notice the further said person gets from the viral moment that was this organic natural thing it becomes this cheap disposable catchphrase that waters down those people into products/props. What happens when those people try to move away from the catchphrase? The very people who built them up are the same who try to pull them down because they don't want them to be a complete individual, so they get mad at them for not being the thing the media sort of warped them into.

[@Sarahmint]

The killing joke is an Oracle origin story, not a joker origin story afaik all joker said is he had "a very bad day"

[@Kanoog]

Good for them, they failed.

[@zambamb]

You are so right. The movie is pretty obvious but people don't seem to understand it still.

[@McCheeseincakes]

Who cares if Harley Quinn manipulated some dude named Arthur Fleck, he's not The Joker that will eventually manipulate her. It's not rude at all.

[@Kanoog]

Say you aren't a Harley fan without saying you aren't a Harley fan.

[@MrSiriusAB]

A secret masterpiece? **Insert J Jonah Jameson laughing meme** You serious?

[@sammyboy_samik3554]

You're the problem here. You're part of hive mind. Majority decide on something and you all blindly follow it. I want to hear your arguments on why it's bad movie lol

[@WilbertMoore]

@@sammyboy_samik3554today I learned if I’m ever in the minority opinion, it’s just because everyone else is in a hive mind.

[@MrSiriusAB]

@@sammyboy_samik3554don't be a contrarian for the sake of not being "pArT oF a HiVe"

[@sammyboy_samik3554]

@@WilbertMoore Funny how so far none of the haters could give me proper reasoning of why it's bad movie. Only few did and they all said bul#### like "He's not the real Joker" and I can already tell they didn't even bother to watch the movie

[@sammyboy_samik3554]

@@MrSiriusAB And yet none of you have proper arguments. The comments didn't even bother to prove the creator wrong. This movie is the proof media literacy is officially dead. Majority decides what's good or bad without proper explanation

[@Nukin_Turtl3]

I felt like if this girl didn’t get so upset at Harley for being “the abuser” she could open her mind to the possibility Harley is supposed to be filling in as Arthur’s mother doing psychological damage to him, he never wanted to be the joker they say how he wasn’t joking anymore at the beginning of the movie but once she comes into his life everything changes

[@kodguerrero]

There is a video called "The Magneto problem" that explains that some characters are ingrained in their origin story. I agree with her tbh

[@Ignisvoid001]

Yeah I couldn't stand that girl. I mean, she is telling "now Harley is evil then the hate incels have looks justified", under that asumption no movie could ever picture a girl like a villain ever, which is shallow, pandering, and most important, UNREALISTIC: Harley isn't a hero in her histories neither most of the time (except in the most recent ones where she basically becomes another character), is a person with faillures and shortcomings, and that's the most relatable thing that the girl in the video seems almost scared to see or discuss.

[@tomleech9753]

"Woah, you can reimagine Joker, but you strayed too far from the Harley lore and that's bad." WTF am I watching?

[@sammyboy_samik3554]

Harley is comic accurate. She loves Joker not the man behind the identity lol. Once when Joker turned normal she tried to turn him into Joker again

[@dangerfly]

Why does Harley or ANY character demand respect? Art doesn't exist so you can like a specific person, object, or idea.

[@t.j.713]

@@dangerfly this !!!!!!

[@immortalimp8724]

She was lore accurate just not the old Harley but more like new 52 crazy. She manipulated him with her psychology, and used her body to seduce him because he is mentally ill. She knew it would work

[@looking4beanz]

You misunderstood. There's a difference between having a unique take on a character and fundamentally changing what made that character begin with.

[@tnshanobighost6749]

Fyi. Woman abuse men much more than what is reported and men have little to no recourse. She acts as if its a bad thig to show men getting abused because it "doesnt happen" but it does. I am actually really annoyed by her.

[@kaleblundberg7479]

Agreed. Maybe they should find better contributors.

[@JerryDaBes]

Funner fact: Most (by a large margin) Men do not report any domestic abuse due to social backlash.

[@Ignisvoid001]

Yeah I couldn't stand that girl. I mean, she is telling "now Harley is evil then the hate incels have looks justified", under that asumption no movie could ever picture a girl like a villain ever, which is shallow, pandering, and most important, UNREALISTIC. Harley isn't a hero in her histories neither most of the time (except in the most recent ones where she basically becomes another character), is a person with faillures and shortcomings, and that's the most relatable thing that the girl in the video seems almost scared to see or discuss.

[@sebro7229]

She seems incredibly smug.

[@EEBM1]

She’s js coping tbh, the guys ain’t tryn make a deal outta it but half her statements were easy rebuttals imo. Her arguments is the same concept as people who say women make less money than men, or they get less income off the dollar than men… Statistically yes, but go into finer details and there’s statistically evidence on why men make more money. But hey I’m js a sexist narcissistic boy who has toxic masculine traits and realistic awareness.

[@hastabungbung]

Coming in to the theater fully aware (from the first movie) that Arthur is not The Joker. As a big fan of comic book Joker, and Heath's Joker, I never want Arthur to be The Joker. I love! the first movie, that's why I alsk really like this second movie. The ending story of short-lived "fake" joker, not in a bad way though. Arthur is still the one who creates joker persona, the first joker that inspire The real Joker. For me, masterpiece? I dont think so, but definitely a great movie.

[@KingdomX1997]

I’m glad he respectfully disagreed with them.

[@Kanoog]

That dude who talked last took a entire weekend to justify liking this movie, it's like a lawyer trying to get P. Diddy out of jail.

[@2890joel]

Why is Brianna so hurt?? lol why is everyone hating on this movie. This is exactly what the movie is about. People are so sick that they want to see more of the same than to keep an open mind and embrace something different

[@Kanoog]

Shitty musical numbers that didn't drive the plot forward but felt like a musical commercial break besides one song, pacing was SHIT and Harley was ruined. The movie ended off where it started and no progress was made from the last movie. It just fell flat, it could have been a 20 minute episode on Amazon.

[@2890joel]

I believe Lady Gaga perfectly represents the public's reaction to "Joker 2." When she discovers that "Joker" is just Arthur, she discards him, much like how many viewers dismissed the film when they realized it wasn't the traditional Joker. The movie is a masterpiece.

[@shivasive]

Colton is gonna try and justify joker on ice next. Never let him out of that damn t.v.

[@Kawasaki-pm9et]

Is it just me or does Ryan like/love every movie? It's starting to be a game I play before he starts talking, guessing if he's gonna like it or love it...I win almost Everytime 😂

[@mauriciocanales5420]

Or he gets paid to like everything?!

[@careerdevelopment1822]

It didn’t piss me off. I really liked it a lot

[@creativefortress]

Is Brianna ok? I am serious. 😢

[@samuelcampos1411]

Based on her analysis , it’s like she’s projecting through a lens. Maybe she experienced domestic abuse and was blamed for it for whatever reasons. Hope she’s okay.

[@Alpha23TV]

I respect her perspective.

[@GersonObrajero]

Ryan is not the only one who enjoy the movie. Even I cried for the situations that Arthur Fleck lived in both movies. This man was abu**d and being a joke all of the time, and he was mentally ill at the point it can't can't take it anymore and the Joker was a expression of it. Now, a woman broke his heart just because is not following the fantasy the clown (the shadow) represents. But I totally understand the reasons because the people don't like or don't understand the movie, anyway! 👍

[@yaboyluhant7374]

Not gonna lie this movie different from the 1st one but I liked it tbh💯

[@JayT-1000]

This girl is reeeaaaaly over thinking this. 🙄 No one is hating on this version of Harley for being the “abuser” here except her. The people I know just didn’t like them turning the Joker into a man that doesn’t want to be the Joker.

[@EatSleepEmpire]

20:16 Harley isn’t being a stalker in this. She is based on the very well documented and real cases of girlfriends and female fans of convicted serial killers.

[@davidnettles4734]

How can it be bad to make Harley the villain when she literally is? Yeah, she sided with Batman recently and became more of an antihero, but for the vast majority of her fictional existence she’s been an absolutely evil villain who has done unspeakably cruel things to innocent people. But don’t make her the villain of the story…

[@crossetti]

Everyone is so brainrotted by Margot Robbie’s adaptation of Harley even tho that’s not the original adaptation of the character. She just made HQ annoying lol. Lady Gaga was was better imo

[@stopculture]

I really don’t understand how giving Harley the agency to be the one that manipulates her historic oppressor could ever be interpreted as offensive. Very strange take.

[@calebk7856]

Yeah Brianna lost me with her take. Literally her stance makes no sense. She wants this to be all about domestic abuse and this new joker movie is not about that. Get over it. She’s making it political in a way that it’s not arguing to be.

[@xibalbaila]

So, the guy that really liked the movie it is the same guy that said "the Flash" was a great movie. What a surprise! I see a pattern.

[@trinitylove152]

The flash wasn't a dam musical

[@xibalbaila]

@@trinitylove152 Ir wasn't, it was just a bad movie.

[@michaelfang1393]

I kind of liked The Flash, but I hated how they overdone the whole multiverse crap and there's no Reverse Flash

[@Carebear-g]

The flash was actually pretty good

[@Kanoog]

@@xibalbaila Wasn't a bad movie, you are just on a bandwagon of haters, you are part of the sheep.

[@sibahleziqubu4509]

Ryan is slowly losing credibility man...saying the acolyte was good was the last straw.

[@Carebear-g]

Stop watching

[@Kanoog]

@@Carebear-g Funny how that comment hit a nerve for you.

[@Carebear-g]

@@Kanoog I'm glad I made you laugh. It didn't really hit a nerve. It's just a solution

[@Theoriginaldollbritney]

I love this woman's perspective!! She's saying everything I wanna say.. they slapped the joker name on these movies when it had nothing to do with the joker... Name it something else.

[@Tatted_twilek]

Those that are hating on it for not living up to what they wanted is exactly the point the film is making. Lee and all the Joker fanatics have made up their own narrative on who Arthur was (some master mind criminal, fed up with society) when really he was a guy who went through so much trauma that just needed help. That's what these movies are about.

[@ghostpants3770]

As said in both films, "you get what you fucking deserve." We got two super unconventional films that functioned more as an arthouse thought experiment than the blockbusters we're used to. They're uncomfortable, weird, creepy, and beautiful. Its not what I wanted and thats exactly why I love them.

[@teerex1376]

OR maybe we just wanted a cohesive, entertaining movie 🤷🏿‍♂️

[@batguy39]

Consume.

[@maggiemooming]

Exactly!!

[@2890joel]

I believe Lady Gaga perfectly represents the public's reaction to "Joker 2." When she discovers that "Joker” is just Arthur, she discards him, much like how many viewers dismissed the film when they realized it wasn't the traditional Joker. The movie is a masterpiece.

[@daredevil5072]

“Haha you fail for the ole fake joker gag batman”- Arkham city

[@coleanderson3579]

HOLY FICK THAT GIRL TRIGGERED ME, literally just wants Harley Quinn to be manipulated like her comic, but joker isn’t joker from comics. Or the fact that she’s saying about all the women being blamed for domestic abused etc stfu it goes horrible for both both ways

[@kweightthree]

This movie was, in fact, not great. Call the movie "Arthur Fleck; a joker fever dream. A musical by Todd Phillips" and maybe more people could like it.

[@Kanoog]

Pacing was shit, and the director doesn't understand how musicals work. Musical numbers are designed to drive the plot forward "A Whole New World" is moving the plot forward for a easy example. Songs in this movie not only don't drive the plot forward, but they interrupt the plot at hand and it resumes to nothing of value.

[@bradnaroallen9429]

Bruh, i can only take yall in small doses. You all will never call out garbage for being garbage.

[@stonecold3697]

yeah.. it's starting to get annoying how they need to have a breakdown as to why a movie/show isn't bad when it clearly is.

[@sammyboy_samik3554]

You're the problem here. You're part of hive mind. Majority decide on something and you all blindly follow it. I want to hear your arguments on why it's bad movie lol

[@tnshanobighost6749]

​@@sammyboy_samik3554I agree. You these people just say what's popular to say. Years later movies like this end up classics and stand up to the test of time.

[@nardlane1578]

Exactly

[@Carebear-g]

If you dislike it, then dislike it. Why do you need to be validated? Butch

[@bshaddo]

I don’t know if Phillips realizes it, but the subtitle is almost a perfect cognate of “Faux Lee, adieu.”

[@fabianhammer2864]

youre actually addressing something, that ive noticed, during my second viewing, not everything were meant to see as a delusion, is actually shared and not all of the reality of the narrative, that isnt distinctly marked as being a delusion, is to be taken at face value. though lee was in love with the idea of joker, theres strong evidence, especially in the way some scenes are cut, that arthur, to some degree, did the same thing, he did with sophie, in the first one. theres at least two scenes with lee, that can easily be read, as only being in arthurs mind and id also argue, that the very last scene between arthur and lee, is actually faux lee and that she did kill herself.

[@EatSleepEmpire]

32:59 The idea as well that the Joker can die, but is reborn over and over until society fixes itself, is so interesting. Joker as Batman’s nemesis makes sense, because Batman is trying to save Gotham, but the joker will always exist not because Batman doesn’t want to murder, but because he can’t solve what causes the joker with more violence.

[@SithNerd79]

I want to know what Ryan is smoking and where can I get some? I thought Colton had the crazy takes!!

[@thehershbathens9483]

My man, Colton, coming through again with the smartest take on the subject matter in question! I've been saying similar things about this film all week. Well done, Screencrush. This film is a masterpiece!

[@DrewF-vp6hh]

I dont agree with Colton much but he was cooking in this one

[@sebastianalegria3401]

I don't think Joker 2 is a masterpiece like the first movie, it might be a misunderstood masterpiece as it's a musical, but it's not the only case. Think of Scorsese and his movie "The Irishman", as time goes by, the movie will be earning respect.

[@slicvicc]

21:16 the man in the screen, 🔥💯 poured his heart out on this take!! It was great to hear pushback in such a prolific manner! 📝🖤

[@Manteo1984]

Colton always has a good grounded sane take that I for one appreciate when all you hear from the trash people of the Internet is whining to grift.

[@hightolerance8728]

@@Manteo1984He the only reason I tune in… side note his new hairstyle is comp

[@slicvicc]

@@Manteo1984 Yes I enjoy tapping in with this and other channels for that reason, different opinions. I can count on screen crush to stand out from the rest

[@nickymo]

I love that this channel is willing to make strange connections and far out observations with no shame or fear it will sound stupid to some. so often it makes me think about something in a different way. Keep up the great work gang!

[@jrocalmighty]

The hate for this movie is just ridiculous. It really exposes our society more than anything else.

[@richiescarf7993]

Society

[@JBurnz001]

Or the movie was just a bad movie to majority of the audience.

[@nathanhartono91]

Moviegoers have always loved an antihero, maybe because it speaks to the version of ourselves that wants to act out violently against the injustices of the world. To see an antihero essentially crumble and eventually get killed by his own ideology, it’s a challenging concept. I get why most people have rejected it. But you’re 100% right that it reflects more on society than anything else.

[@metalface_villain]

or maybe it was just a bad movie and people were mad they wasted 2 hours and money to see it xD

[@metalface_villain]

@@nathanhartono91 have you perhaps missed 90% of gangster movies? they were all about that and people still loved them, this was just a bad movie, simple as that.

[@mine_all_the_time0793]

So they made a movie to insult its fan base? Well, don't be surprised when the fan base is insulted

[@kymerahYT]

“Fanbase?” You mean those who idolise The Joker? The people who only want to see the clown? Those people need a good insulting if they want the same old thing for over 80 years.

[@mine_all_the_time0793]

@@kymerahYT fan base, like the ppl who pay money

[@mine_all_the_time0793]

@@kymerahYT they had the capability to make something truly different that could've been truly great. But they decided to make everyone eat crap.

[@paulpoenicke5642]

If the movie was to insult a small group of fans who liked a fundamentally amoral, violent protagonist, then that's not an insult to the entire fan base of the movie. It's an insult to misguided fans of the Joker character--though a stupid way of trying to write a second film and have anyone view it.

[@MatthewTadder]

I didn't think it was made to insult anyone, he was clarifying the "moral" of his story. I actually think he just underestimated the masses willingness to appreciate a less than action-packed, dark comic book movie about mental illness and a broken society.

[@sawjames6620]

20:49 Dog, Harley is a villain! Point, blank , period.

[@tanianorth5089]

Three Jokers kinda explains that ending, that The Joker is not 1 person, but an idea.

[@MusicLover-my6fo]

Personally, I never saw the first Joker film as an "incel film" if anything, I think Fight Club portrays that better with the line, "We're a generation of men raised by women, I'm wondering if another woman is really the thing we need." And while I do agree that Lee/"Harley Quinn" is the main antagonist as she wants Arthur to try to be "the Joker" when he just wants to be Arthur Fleck, then I guess Lee would still lose. Since Arthur gets killed by the inmate, it's perceived that he would just become the "real" Joker and Lee would gravitate towards him. I really think this film fails because it spits on its previous film and the core audience it had. The first Joker film did not need a sequel.

[@Sorcerers_Apprentice_11]

Incorrect about Fight Club. That line is really about Marla Singer. As many how gathered now she’s also a figment of the narrators imagination. Thus, Tyler not wanting another (person) woman to share with the narrator.

[@kingkornkarn6453]

That take on Harley is one she should remember when reviewing everything else.

[@faintyfairysoldierson]

i really liked and agrees with what @screencrush Ryan said, the failure of the movie depicts exactly what is shown in the movie, people does not care about Arthur, only joker. This movie is a real world reflection.

[@Someguy029]

Creatives should be free to tell whatever story they want to tell. They shouldn't be bound by someone's preferred take on a character. To say that it's problematic to have a woman as the abuser falls on deaf ears for me, especially when considering the reverse in this context: we have a grounded narrative where our "Joker" is a mentally ill person. To create a narrative where a genuinely mentally ill person is an evil manipulative monster seems equally problematic given the reality that mentally ill people are more likely to be victimized than they are to victimize others. I get wanting an adaptation to be more in line with what you personally like, but creatives should be free to tell the stories they want to tell. Fleck was never the Joker of the comics and same for "Harley". It's an original story with an original take on these characters. I don't think the director was interested in the DC universe so much as he was interested in this particular character study and social commentary about the systems that failed this particular mentally ill person. And that's fine! The question should be whether the story the director was aiming for was well executed or not, not whether it's in line or not with one's own vision of how a character is 'supposed' to be. A lot of people like Superman. Does that mean we should never get evil superman stories? It's silly, especially when we're already inundated with so many stories we've seen before; let's see something new!

[@Someguy029]

I also don't really buy the idea that it's a middle finger to the reactionary weirdos who thought the Joker was 'based' or what not. These people fundamentally misunderstood the first film and I'd bet most hadn't watched it. Had they watched the original, they'd see things which go against their read of the movie which is what they're now criticizing as some 'subversion.' There is no subversion. It's entirely consistent with the first film. The only thing it subverts are these fools interpretations of it. And in many ways, that runs parallel to the major theme at play in the film: no one is seeing Arthur Fleck as the mentally ill victim that he is. They're seeing him instead as a legend.

[@Robotman89]

People liked that the first joker was a real movie disguised as a comic book movie but now people don’t like that this movie strays too far away from the comics? Seems like people pick and choose what’s okay to change and what’s not.

[@MiharusArtwork]

finally a nuanced discussion about this movie instead of just hating on everything

[@joebond545]

Zero fan service, zero action, zero superheroes, just a great movie about mental illness that unfortunately casual audiences will never understand. This is the BVS of this decade

[@protalghulnist4126]

How could you possibly cite zero fan service as one of its strong points and then compare it to Batman vs Superman

[@choppydell]

Also to the Harley take from Brianna, look at the Caped Crusaders take on Harley Quinn, she wasn't abused but she used her status and position to take advantage of the The Upperclass. That's a scary villain when your psychiatrist is using your darkest secrets in confidence as a weapon against you.

[@BonJoviBeatlesLedZep]

12:40 Harley Quinn was also reinterpreted as being more sinister in the Caped Crusader show, but that's made by the creator of Harley in the first place who was actually friends with Arleen Sorkin, so I'm fine with it. The problem i think stems from the fact that Todd Phillip used the character as just a name without any care to make it meaningful.

[@t.j.713]

Since when are artists expected to "respect" what has came before? What happened to respecting taking risks and having something new? Also noticing the guests keep saying "it doesn't feel like X," if we simply reiterated prior done material in our art our society would truly know no growth.

[@Kanoog]

Okay.... it's simple. If somebody want's a cheeseburger and they get a taco instead, sure it's food but it isn't the food people wanted. This MOVIE didn't give the fans what they wanted, it went off to a shit direction.

[@Sorcerers_Apprentice_11]

@@KanoogThat’s what gives the whole project BALLS. True art takes risks. Seems like you’ve been conditioned on Marvel ( And I’m an MCU fan)

[@t.j.713]

@@Kanoog Yeah going to reiterate that "giving fans what they want" is not and should not be the sole purpose of any art, including this. (I'm also a die-hard MCU and DC fan)

[@McCheeseincakes]

Harley Quinn lets out a psychopath from confinement. Being a victim has a line and she crossed it long ago.

[@OptimusTOM]

The MYSTERY GUY at the end... YES, he's the obvious answer. But he's also YOU. The Toxic Fan who HATES this movie. (speaking from the filmmakers' POV, as I don't know any of you, and relax - it's just a perspective. Not accusing you of anything) - But .... You're disappointed in the film, let down by the character, you had wildly misguided expectations about this film, and character.. despite this being 100% the only sequel Joaquin and Todd would have ever made... Despite either film EVER being a "comic book movie". And I love how the guy at the end slices up his face, just like Heath Ledger, aka, it's the filmmakers saying "you trolls only want THE SAME THING over and over. you don't understand filmmaking, and here... Now you're stabbing the movie with your low scored. The filmmakers knew you were coming. You're predictable. Now, take your easter eggs, and take the same character we've already seen, and have that... but the rest of us, will be here, on the ground with Arthur.

[@WilbertMoore]

So they intentionally made a movie that the majority of ppl would hate just so they could come after the fact and shame us for hating it?

[@fabianhammer2864]

@@WilbertMoore this take, about the movie existing, only to spite fans, really only concerns the last act of the movie- consider that the rabid joker fan boys were arguably portrayed, as more unhinged, even before the joker became their symbol- this time, its because arthur stops being the joker, just like bruce wayne stopped being batman, in the dark knight rises. and sure, we knew john blake better, than the inmate at the ending, but id argue that doesnt sell the idea of blake becoming batman, who as a symbol is more specific to bruce, than the joker to arthur, any better. the hate for this one is mostly due to the fact, that a. it has too many musical sequences for most and b. the last act is designed, to very quickly change the narrative back to being arthurs story- that doesnt mean he regresses, or has no character arc. ive watched the movie thrice now and its telling, that during the more analytical second viewing, i noticed the most common reasons, for the walkouts and part of that, is of course many people feeling, like they were being played. but even without phillips outright saying, that arthur could be the inspiration for the real joker, even without the clues in the trailers and the writing being on the wall, regarding this movies theme, from the very beginning, in its animated intro- despite all that some folks still seemed to be invested, until the third act and thats an especially bitter pill to swallow, because its harder to admit, how long it takes, for the reality to set in, which oddly mirrors arthurs character arc- he also thought, he made a positive change for the city and took a stand against the oppressors and only started to see the reality of it, after garys trial, when it suddenly wasnt funny anymore. previous to that, we had a courtroom scene, with arthurs delusion reaching its peak, during his performance of the song the joker- arguably the most classic comic version both movies portrayed. after garys testimony however, it all happens rather quickly- the guards quickly show him, being joker doesnt mean hes in control and his effect is driven home further, by killing ricky. i admit, that choice is controversial, for a reason- but what im getting at here, is even up until that point, i had a viewer behind me whispering, that now the guards will get, what they fucking deserve- they still counted on arthur going full joker, with about 25 minutes of the movie left and after his courtroom confession, the atmosphere in the cinema noticably changed, during every viewing. so its safe to say, that a majority of people have very specific reasons, for disliking this movie, with phillips blatantly spelling out, that nobody cares about arthur fleck and neither this movie, nor the first, wouldve been made, without loosely connecting it, to the mythos- and as a fan, i get the righteous anger. consider the fact, that its not without precedent, that filmmakers, writers etc have spoken out against the interpretation of their respective movies, take fight club, for instance, from which many young men took a similar message and arguably missed the same point, its writer and later on its director, tried to make- or more recently, breaking bad- phillips just went one, or rather several steps, step further, because he intentionally attached an original IP to it. (yet, it was always pitched that way and hes been transparent about both that and the end goal) i disagree, however, with the notion, this exists, just to spite, what amounts to a very specific, rabid fan base of the first and the movie is really only about them, for a short time, after the courtroom explosion goes off.....if you happen to be in the majority of those who didnt like it and im on the other end of the spectrum, lets meet halfway here, i wont argue about the films quality, or try to convert you, i think time will be kinder to this movie, than has been the case, in the last couple of days- but consider the alternative, that maybe phillips didnt try to just piss everybody off, by addressing his issues with the originals reception, maybe he actually trusted his audience a bit too much, in that they would see things his way and arthurs confession was supposed to hit different- i know, it did for me. whatever his intent was, im only trying, for some civil discourse to take place and those above me and would like to believe thats possible, even if we ultimately only agree, to disagree.

[@sedrickwells8545]

Hold up. What the heck doug do to get banned from st Louis

[@ambergerhelper7852]

That’s the one question I want answered.

[@savlosavage]

I think people were pissed because the story actually ended the way it started ... Arthur is not who people see. The Joker is Nameless ... a symbol. Arthur wanted to have personal attachment to people

[@RobbieManic]

Quick task for the audience who actually liked the first film: Justify Arthur killing Murray. Because he laughed at his stand up? Because he's mentally unwell? You can't justify it. He just does it and people loved it. Why? Why did so many people resonate with a homicidal maniac killing people for no reason? The subway kills aren't even justified, just because he was being attacked doesn't mean you hunt them down and kill them.

[@richardthemagician8991]

I just wanted to add to the conversation that we shouldn't forget somebody dressed up like a version of The joker and shot up a movie theater that was showing the dark night back in 2008. I think making a movie criticizing the toxic fans of the original movie was a good call. These filmmakers had an impossible task. Which was to make us relate to Arthur and alienate us from the Joker. All while debating if they were one and the same. I think this movie does a better job with that task.

[@markpostgate2551]

It was 2012 and it was the Dark Knight Rises (which doesn't have the Joker in). It was the media that made out he was cosplaying as the Joker, but the only parallels were he was angry at society and had dyed (orange) hair. So, yes let's not forget that completely inaccurate and largely fabricated story.

[@TheThirdPew]

I was angry at this movie for a day, but I'm starting to appreciate it. I think it will age very well.

[@EatSleepEmpire]

Literally you are the only voice of reason when it comes to this film. It’s ok if people don’t like it, everyone has their own taste, but they can’t say it’s a bad film. It might not give people what they want or what they expected, but it’s a flawless film in terms of its intent and execution.

[@echedp8903]

The comments on Quinn in this just cemented why I like the version of her in Caped Crusader the most. You want to do an 'evil' version of Harley? Do what that show did!

[@badwolf69420]

The haters of this movie are totally Triggered. I admire it for that.

[@EatSleepEmpire]

15:28 people need to understand that just because something has source material, doesn’t mean it has ANY right to be loyal to it. Whatever product is being made, it exists on its own. If the character makes sense in the film, then it works, despite its source material.

[@0chibijulie0]

My thoughts( from nando) Saw it with my mom very early in the am, and there were like 2 other people in the theater. Afterwards we stayed seated and talked about the movie and the comparison between the movies, comics and animations versions of the joker and harley, we chatted in depth for a few minutes and then some folks started coming in for the next showing. I think they thought we were there for the same showing as them lol, but we stopped and i told my mom we should continue our convo in the car to not spoil if for folks coming in accidentally, and mom smiled and insta understood, and then we got a snack and sat in her car outside the theater and contiuned our in depth convo. I liked it. It was definitely different...and...i think arthur was fine playing the victim when everyone was talking around him but about him, loke he wasnt there and saying such dark and hurtful things about him as a person justifying the actions of the person they are speaking of(zazi beats and the others who were on the stand) but when puddles talks directly to him and tells him how He and his actions and choices direclty affected puddles for the rest of his life ( which was already rough, but to add the really horrifying trauma that will now continue for him after that experience for the rest of his life). I teared up a bit. That was both brave...and terrifying for puddles...but he did it. That situation combined with the guards literally beating arthur and...reminding him that HE is getting punished...for his choices, his words and actions in jail, in court, in life..., they took off the "joker" make up and beat Arthur, and reminded him that you are doing this and youbate experiencing this. It was...rough to watch....but i think puddles, that beating by the cops, and the silencing of the jailer who was still singing the song that represented support for the joker... made him see that those actions, that he knew were choices, were choices he made, and did because he wanted to do it because of what those individuals did to him, not a seperate entity acting on its own accord. He took accountability. That...was both the Craziest and saniest thing ive ever watched a "joker" do. I also think lee at the end is an illusion...i think she hurt herself in the last scene we see of her with the long hair, and the version of her that errily didnt stop singing, is an illusion in arthurs mind. Those were my thoughts 😊

[@fabianhammer2864]

youre actually addressing something, that ive noticed, during my second viewing, not everything were meant to see as a delusion, is actually shared and not all of the reality of the narrative, that isnt distinctly marked as being a delusion, is to be taken at face value. though lee was in love with the idea of joker, theres strong evidence, especially in the way some scenes are cut, that arthur, to some degree, did the same thing, he did with sophie, in the first one. theres at least two scenes with lee, that can easily be read, as only being in arthurs mind and id also argue, that the very last scene between arthur and lee, is actually faux lee and that she did kill herself. im happy to share my theories, including the solid evidence planted, in the movie, if anyones interested, or wants to share their take on the movie....id especially love to talk/write about it, given that im apparently in the very small minority, who digs this even more, than its predecessor (and also a fan of the comic IP, so both at the same time actually is possible, though i also totally get, why its not a crowd pleaser)

[@philopharynx7910]

I see this Harley as still being obsessed with the Joker. She is obsessed in the crazy, self destructive way. But she is obsessed with the concept/media image of the Joker. If Arthur had never shown his human side, she would follow him into utter hell and let him abuse her. In a world where this move made as much as the first, I could see a third movie showing Harley facing the consequences and eventually escaping from the hold that the concept of the Joker has on her. I've always been a fan of new interpretations of stories. Bring them on. Yes, some will fail, but you never grow without taking risks.

[@JezzaBondiBeach]

I really enjoyed Joker 2 😃

[@RobbZipp]

I’ll save you all 36:20 YES

[@frankkadar3897]

Secret Masterpiece??? You have got to be kidding. This movie was a middle finger to everyone who loved the first film to comic fans and to WB. Todd Philips disrespected the original source material and did not care. This movie is a disaster and should not even exist.

[@fabriciou3230]

we are missing the third part, where we learn the guy who stabbed Arthur manipulated Harley into doing everything as he planned, now he will take the mantel of Joker. She was already corrupted by this guy and Arthur is the victim of their plans

[@JerzCe73]

I don't agree that Harley Quinn's past trauma exempts her from being a villain. In fact, if you look at Carol from The Walking Dead you can trace back through her marital abuse, losing a child, trauma after trauma and the creators were not afraid to have Carol do some atrocious acts...There is room in the cannon for Gaga's Harley.

[@si_quest]

I don’t trust anyone who liked this movie

[@Kanoog]

SAME

[@zombiezone2010]

I legit can't trust people who don't give good reasons why they don't like this movie and call it trash. o0o herd mentality

[@si_quest]

@@zombiezone2010 well it's quite simple. No one wanted a musical to the sequel of a very appreciated movie. and it wasn't even a good musical. To every herd mentality, you have the contrarians who think it's cool to go against the popular opinion, it just isn't. Get attention some other way

[@fireproofart5526]

Joker is not suppose to not make any sense, he is insane, he has no want or ambition until he finds Batman. But Batman is not in these films. I think the director was making a commentary about today. How a huge personality with funny hair manipulates his supporters. I think the company and director has a responsibility to this character “Joker” to make sure he is dislike and stays a villain. After 2012 Auroa Colorado mass shooting, he definitely needs to be looked in a new light, which might have been one of the goals of this new direction.

[@sammymorales6838]

The joker has no purpose without Batman

[@shirakawanaoya]

I loved the movie. It's so interesting and makes you question everything and anything happening, whether it's real or a delusion. I still think Harley didn't exist at all. It's more of a continuation on how the system failed a mentally ill person.

[@Kanoog]

You are what we like to call "Digging" You are filling in gaps the movie failed to delivery on, it's a form of denial. You can't even argue with what I'm saying because you already proved my point.

[@johngallagher72]

Any ending that ties in and leaves an opening that leads to the Heath Ledger Joker should be loved for that reason alone.

[@joethedragonking7341]

Assuming that’s the case

[@johngallagher72]

​@@joethedragonking7341the ending points to the psychotic inmate was Heath Ledger Joker...the character did everything put say why so serious

[@joethedragonking7341]

@@johngallagher72 except it doesn’t actually tie into the dark knight and the heath ledger joker had no history where as this patient clearly does.

[@Kanoog]

Doesn't make sense, Heth's Joker takes place 2016 - This movie takes place 1983, which means if he was born on even 1983 that would make him 33 in the Dark Knight, but since he was in prison that isn't the case. In the Dark Knight the Joker is likely in his late 20s to mid-30s. According to the math, this movies Joker would be around 53-63 years old by the time he gets to The Dark Knight.

[@LegalLatinoHeat]

The Joker got R-worded in prison how is this a masterpiece?

[@myfathersson3751]

😮😮😮😮

[@The1TheyCallFoo313]

That didn't happen or wasn't really implied, they were cops not inmates.

[@zxG777]

They aren't cops, they are guards... and not only was it heavily implied, that is what happened in the film

[@BthIX]

That didn't happen. We just lying about the movie now?

[@The1TheyCallFoo313]

@@zxG777 The guards stripped him to his underwear when they beat him to see where all the marks they were going leave on him. It would be implied if it was inmates maybe, but not "heavily implied" here.

[@okamifang4059]

I'm with you actually. I freakin LOVED it

[@NotGregoryStevens]

I love everything about ScreenCrush except the "Was it Bad?" video. I almost never click on them. Breanna's biased rationale for what she deems as lack of respect for the source material (only when it relates to Harley) makes me feel I should never click on another "Was it Bad?" video.

[@LegalLatinoHeat]

Todd Philip should never make a movie ever again.

[@byronnjie3610]

he made a banger with the first one there was never supposed to be a sequel. just wb ruining dc

[@BthIX]

Joker 2 is an objectively well made film, you just dont like that it went into an unexpected direction

[@antipop1717]

aight dawg

[@MrSiriusAB]

@@byronnjie3610 Wachowski siblings have entered the chat

[@jordanromesburg6819]

touch grass lmao that is delusional talk

[@dornravlin]

Thank you I actually like the movie and agree with you

[@JlkKlj321]

Dracula The Untold movie is basically Thomas Wayne's story about how he >TURNED< a whole City into mindless zombies... IT~IS the very strong and powerful >Illusion< that a Vampire can create a city of drain zombies slaves. But the very interesting and impressive thing about it, is that if one turns off the Joker movies the same parasitical vampiric parasites are functioning very well within the real physical world LOL.!? Again, within the hopes this helps...

[@JlkKlj321]

Underworld, I am legend, World war Z, Poor Things, Salem's lot, The matrix and Dracula untold are movie illustration depictions of the effects of Thomas Wayne The Dracula Vampire have of Country Cities and States... Arthur Fleck aka "The Joker" was/is just a paradoxically out of control zombie that's making trouble for the top Vampiric Covenants... Harley/Lee Quinn was/is just a curious vampire agent that need to see a rogue agent zombie program with her own eyes, basically for training purposes... 🌱Much Love to all movie fans One Love 🎭J.L.K☺🌳🙏✨✨✨

[@samuelballard3467]

Ryan.. 3 fata errors Compares this film to deadpool and wolverine even saying it's better at points big error Saying the marvels was aggressively fine (it was bad) Saying the marvels has 3 great scenes and NO bad ones. What? And this is only 8 mins in...

[@ryansimpson9654]

I see this as a theseus ship theory debate like in wandavision. Can you strip the structure (which is how we know the original to be) while changing the functions of those parts and have the audience still identify the ship (Harley Quinn as the villain or abuser of Arthur).

[@FilmmakerEagan]

You’re not the only one who loved it I did too!!

[@gracelloyd3758]

Me too!

[@adrianramos4721]

I didn’t love it, but I do love how it set out to piss off fans and did it!

[@FilmmakerEagan]

@@adrianramos4721 So true!

[@shirakawanaoya]

@@FilmmakerEagan me 2

[@CaseyPriceForsakenhero]

I also disagree with her on the whole anti women thing. Because the movie has a female lawyer who really cares about him.

[@JulianWLucas]

Colton absolutely cooked! And never apologize for being a “white guy”. You don’t need to feel bad for your highly intelligent, insightful, and well thought out opinion just because you’re a white male. Everything you said was 100% spot on. Happy you actually shared it instead of holding it in. The genre is transcending. It’s evolving. We want these stories to continue to evolve and change. For studios and creatives to take chances. Some will work. Some will fail. It’s just art. Interesting stories we all get to consume. I don’t need to see another joker dropping into a vat of acid.

[@KnottsBear-yTalesPreserved]

"Folie A Deux" is a sequel title that will live on in infamy as "Electric Boogaloo"

[@EatSleepEmpire]

22:40 hallelujah! So respectfully said.

[@klaudiaflis]

Before I watched, I think it was AMAZING. Perfect sequel to the Joker. I laughted, I cried, I felt disguest and joy - cheff kiss

[@cpt.deadpool90]

So my biggest question from this video... genuinely is....why is doug not allowed in st. louis 😅😂 i have to know

[@ambergerhelper7852]

💯

[@michaelpudney9368]

I actually loved this movie quite a lot and felt it was even better than the first one, especially in how it told it's message. I did not feel it had at all undermined the message from the first one at all, but had instead built upon it and had further developed it into a more nuanced discussion. However, I do think Brianna is onto something here, and it's not something I had really considered until she pointed it out, so honestly thank you Brianna for bringing it up! No message ever lives within a vacuum, and when we provide these reinterpretations and reimagnings of characters we are not doing so in a vacuum either, we are impacting, changing, and evolving the messages and meanings of the original story's and the characters within them. I personally, did not view Harlee in Joker Folie à Deux as being a villian who was manipulating and abusing Arthur. I instead viewed her as someone who was seeking connection and a relationship with the idea of who she thought the Joker was. To me it looked more like trauma bonding where both Arthur and Harlee were feeding into and fueling, the issues, both characters were facing. This is a level of complexity that is often found within a lot of relationships where family harm (domestic violence) is involved, and it could have been a great way to raise awarness if these complexities were properly explored within the film, but it wasn't.

[@michaelpudney9368]

To clarify, the reason why I do not feel this complex issue was appropriately explored within the film, has to do predominantely with perspective of how this story is being told, and who is telling the story, and yes I do think gender plays a very big role in what perspective this film is developed and told through. In the first film the story is predominantely told through the perspective of an unreliable narrator Arthur Fleck, a white male living in poverty with mental health issues, and is continuously experiences differing forms of abuse from an array of people. There were definitely reasons why it was told from solely this perspective, however, a series of issues had become appearant stemming from how this story was told. I feel Todd Philips began to address a lot of these issues within this sequal through expanding the scope of the story outside of just the main characters perspective. I feel this would've been the perfect place to also begin to view the story of other characters perspectives including Harlee, and this is where the story fell short, and I think a big part of why this is, has in huge part to do with who is telling the story, ie Todd Philips, a white male, just as I, a white male, was unaware of the potential ramifications this new interpretations of Harlee could have. While on the other hand Brianna was able find out these issues straight away, perspectives matter, not just for what characters these stories are being told through, but also by who is writing these stories, whose directing them, and who is acting them. Overall, I think the story was well done, but not without it's flaws, and I do want to thank Brianna for helping make all of us more aware of the potential ramefications this story could have.

[@badgerwithagun]

“Spending $200 million on a movie designed to bomb, well there’s nothing more Joker than that” Damn

[@Paintimenti]

Doug’s “ohh carefulll” got me 🤣🤣🤣

[@tspro9844]

0:54 the audible "huh?" That left my mouth could have been heard for miles.

[@mr.dephiant9713]

This movie is a masterpiece! Why? People expected explosions & killing to happen but missed the premise behind the idea of the first Joker...& ignored Arthur....Harley is a representation of the people who wanted the "joker" not Arthur....the musical showcases the mind of Arthur & the fragile state he's in....what's left behind is the idea of the "Joker." Everyone complaining about the musicals aren't in tune with classic genre. The fact different & polar opposite views is a reflection of our society.