Jon Foreman: Leaving the Christian Label

Рет қаралды 5,460

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 44

@almostheretical 9 күн бұрын

A number of listeners had push back on this episode. We did an after show that you can hear here: www.patreon.com/posts/53-pushback-from-109404683

@r.m.solympic1771 Ай бұрын

Thank you for your perspective. I am a person who did not grow up in a religious home or go to church. Before coming to faith, I believed there were many roads to what a person believes is God. I came to faith in Christ around 30 when I realized I owed a sin debt I could not pay. My violation of the holy standard of God weighed on me, and I realized that neither myself nor anyone else can keep those standards required by God perfectly, even when we try our hardest. None of us can be Christ like for every second of every day of our life, sinless in both in thought and deed. That is God's standard, perfection. God's love is, that while we were yet sinners, He sent His Son, Jesus, the only one who could keep those standards perfectly on our behalf, so that His righteousness can be attributed to us and our sins blotted out. He died in our place, so we can have life eternal. The good news in Christ is that He paid that sin debt for those who will trust in Him and His sacrifice on our behalf. Christ actually spoke of hell, many times. If Christ does not pay our debt, we go to hell to pay our own debt. It is our choice. Romans chapter one says all humans know God exists, because He has made Himself known, so humans have no excuse for their rejection of the true God. The doctrine of hell is actually one of a loving God. If someone murders and rapes and willfully does bad and rejects all that is good, should they not be punished? If someone kidnapped your child and tortured them for days and then murdered them, would you not want justice for your child? That is what hell is. Justice from a loving God. Those who willfully reject God for the sake of embracing evil will be punished in hell. That is love. People who willfully harm others deserve to be punished. God extends mercy and forgiveness, but if that is rejected, it is the human's choice to pay their own sin debt. I have had bad experiences in church and have been hurt badly. I understand the pain. If a person is hurt by professing Christians, read your Bible. Going to church doesn't make you a Christian. Realize that the church is full of false believers, but that does not mean the message of Christ and the Bible is false. Also remember, that none of us our perfect and we all sin in many ways. Sometimes as humans, Christians or not, we hurt others. That is why Jesus spoke of forgiveness. I stumbled upon this post because Switchfoot is one of my favorite bands of all time. Based on some of Jon Foreman's songs, he seems to be searching for the true God or singing of God, as he sings directly from the Bible. Things aren't always as they appear, so I wanted to dig a little deeper to see where he stands. Regardless, his music and voice has always moved me since discovering Switchfoot. The answers are in the Bible. Scientific facts and fulfilled prophesy validate the belief that the Bible is from the one true God, creator of the universe. I ask my own kids, who have now been raised in a Christian home, to reason and question everything. I frequently quiz them on how or why we know Christianity is the one true religion. Afterall, a person raised a Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist will most likely believe what they have been raised to believe. All these religions can't be true, as they worship different gods and have opposing beliefs. As Christians, we should be prepared with answers. That is my goal, to always have an answer for every question asked of me. I am praying for you both and for Jon Foreman, that you find the only way, truth and life, Jesus Christ. John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

@StevieWonder824 24 күн бұрын

This whole comment is awesome. Thank you for sharing your testimony. My story is similar. I appreciate your articulation of hell and that the Bible is sufficient and trustworthy. I am saddened that Jon has gone towards progressive Christianity and still wonder why Drew Shirley actually left the band. Maybe because of the progressive Christianity that was happening in Jon’s life? Idk. I hope Jon and these two starting judging using the Word of God only instead of assuming they have the right moral standard and judge the Bible by it. Thanks again for sharing🙏🏽

@lovealwayswins9860 3 ай бұрын

Jon Foreman is the thread in my stitches.

@ChristianContent-l8t 4 ай бұрын

Being a disciple or a “Christian”means denying yourself and taking up your cross daily. The problem with modern Christians who don’t have a high regard for the Word of God is they are so obsessed and focused on their feelings that they miss the point of even being a follower of Christ. It’s not about you, it’s not about me, it’s about Jesus…when we focus on Him, turn our hearts to Him, that’s when we are able to love other people in the way God designed. Anything outside of that is simply an act of pulling ourselves by our bootstraps and hoping for the best.

@trevorkeith3813 4 ай бұрын

As someone who has deconstructed (or evolved in this case lol) it was really interesting to hear Jon's philosophies and ideas on these topics. And I like that the questions were asked in a way that wasn't combative. The discussion felt very open that there were many paths to take in life and that just because somebody found theirs that it doesn't mean the other person is lost, even if there's a disagreement between beliefs.

@thomaskatch4898 3 ай бұрын

I think Christian is not merely being "Christ-like", although that is important. It is firstly pledging your allegiance to Jesus, the enthroned King, then Christ-likeness will spring from that. Looking forward to seeing you in concert tomorrow in Indiana! Your music has inspired me for many years.

@prosper2386 Ай бұрын

@@thomaskatch4898 Psalms 63:12 TLV [12] But the king will rejoice in God. All who swear by Him will boast, when the mouth speaking lies is shut. Philippians 2:5-16 TLV [5] Have this attitude in yourselves, which also was in Messiah Yeshua, [6] Who, though existing in the form of God, did not consider being equal to God a thing to be grasped. [7] But He emptied Himself- taking on the form of a slave, becoming the likeness of men and being found in appearance as a man. [8] He humbled Himself- becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. [9] For this reason God highly exalted Him and gave Him the name that is above every name, [10] that at the name of Yeshua every knee should bow, in heaven and on the earth and under the earth, [11] and every tongue profess that Yeshua the Messiah is Lord- to the glory of God the Father. [12] Therefore, my loved ones, just as you have always obeyed-not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence-work out your salvation with fear and trembling. [13] For the One working in you is God-both to will and to work for His good pleasure. [14] Do everything without grumbling or arguing, [15] so that you might be blameless and innocent, children of God in the midst of a crooked and twisted generation. Among them you shine as lights in the world, [16] holding fast to the word of life, so that I may boast in the day of Messiah that I did not run or labor in vain.

@prosper2386 Ай бұрын

1 Corinthians 15:27-28 TLV [27] For God has “put all things in subjection underneath His feet.” But when the psalmist says that “all” has been put in subjection, it is clear that this does not include God Himself, who put all things under Messiah. [28] Now when all things become subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also become subject to the One who put all things under Him, so that God may be all in all. The true Messiah pointed his students to God, not his own glory. John 8:54-55 TLV [54] Yeshua answered, “If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing. It is My Father who gives Me glory-the One of whom you say, ‘He is our God.’ [55] Yet you do not know Him, but I know Him. If I say I do not know Him, I will be a liar like you. Yet I do know Him and keep His Word.

@lovealwayswins9860 4 ай бұрын

Jon Foreman is my human example of how to walk through this life like Jesus teaches us. Meek means power under control. ❤

@karenbooth7309 3 ай бұрын

Thankyou Jesus for this image so amazing thankyou for sharing the true Christianity Jon appreciate who we are Christians your dad taught you and Tim the real Christian life and you turned into fabulous music to the world thankyou ❤❤❤❤

@chrisbyerly 4 ай бұрын

Firmly agree that those post-show recordings were the best. I used to get so attached to them in that form that the recordings always disappointed me.

@almostheretical 4 ай бұрын

Totally! I still have most of them. :) -Nate

@benlange4484 4 ай бұрын

I first heard Your Love is Strong from a live bootleg of Jon playing it at some awards event back in like 2007. Loved those recordings!!

@benlange4484 4 ай бұрын

Loved this conversation. Love Jon. Thank you Nate and Shelby!

@joesixtoe6698 4 ай бұрын

God definitely wants you to come to him with questions. I can hear your tone of struggle and your faith seems shaken. I hope the Lord guides you in the right direction. The label of Christian isn't a team, its simply a way of telling others that you follow Jesus Christ, a little way of preaching the gospel. I feel like you guys are thinking too much into this. Love the Lord, go out to preach the gospel, and let your light shine so that all may see and glorify your father in heaven. Let Christ be your rock, a firm foundation in this world. It's not always easy, and we will sin probably every single day, but that's ok, he's still our rock. It's not an organization. It's not full of perfect people. It's not full of people who have zero doubt. Instead, we all have doubts, we all sin and a lot of us struggle to feel connected with other people in the church. But first and foremost, our connection and love for Jesus Christ our Lord comes first, and living a life that glorifies him.

@oliviah.7753 4 ай бұрын

What this guy said!

@dqreyes24 4 ай бұрын

I completely agree with your comment.

@jeffersonfreed2716 4 ай бұрын

It’s ironic that defining “Christianity” as “how you love your neighbor” basically reduces it to a man-made system of ethics that those in deconstruction may accuse of Christianity in the first place. Yes, all of God’s law is contained in loving God with all our hearts, soul, and mind, and loving our neighbor as ourselves (Matt 22:37-40). But it’s not the latter that defines the former, as alluded to in this video. I believe it’s just the opposite - if I love God sincerely as Jesus described, true love for my neighbor will automatically follow. And yes, on the Christian festival point, I’m sorry to see something that should be holy used in a way that isn’t. God cares about that.

@StevieWonder824 24 күн бұрын

Couldn’t have said this better myself. Well said💯

@djdangerfield590 4 ай бұрын

“There are a lot of bands I don’t listen to from the Christian World”. Lol

@vineethraj1671 4 ай бұрын

I am not an expert but our circumstances or emotions shouldn’t define our faith Christ Our Lord He is ALWAYS I’ll continue to strive no matter what.

@sosapablo1789 4 ай бұрын

Acts 11:26 “The disciples were first called Christians at Antioch.” Clearly the term Christian pertains specifically to followers of Christ. And all those everywhere who call upon his name (1 Corinthians 1:2). I’m not getting the whole rigamarole if I’m being honest. @almostheretical

@bekah85rf 4 ай бұрын

I don't call myself a christian either to people. I call myself a Christ follower.

@cal1believer 4 ай бұрын

Im a christ believer 😊 I feel like i cant really say im a follower i still sin even after knowing the truth.😔

@lovealwayswins9860 4 ай бұрын

@cal1believer we all do! Following means watching, learning, growing- like a student of Christ. First you believe and then you follow while still a sinner❤

@dizzydisciple 4 ай бұрын

Tons of words, endless pondering, loads of self-centeredness... no depth. Welcome to progressive Christianity.

@joshuaspidel6603 4 ай бұрын

101 right here on progressive “Christianity” unfortunately :(

@lovealwayswins9860 4 ай бұрын

Once we all truely put other's above ourselves the world will be what God intended for us in the first place.

@eliz6880 Ай бұрын

It makes me sad to hear them talk like that about Faith. I feel that there is a hidden desire to please people. The world and its desires pass away but he who does the will of God remains forever.

@prosper2386 Ай бұрын

John 12:43-50 TLV [43] for they loved the glory of men more than the glory of God. [44] Yeshua cried out, “Whoever puts trust in Me believes not in Me but in the One who sent Me! [45] And whoever beholds Me beholds the One who sent Me. [46] As light I have come into the world, so that everyone who trusts in Me should not remain in darkness. [47] “If anyone hears My words but doesn’t keep them, I do not judge him; for I came to save the world, not to judge the world. [48] The one who rejects Me and doesn’t receive My words has a judge; the word I spoke will judge him on the last day. [49] For I did not speak on My own, but the Father Himself who sent Me has commanded Me what to say and speak. [50] And I know that His commandment is life everlasting. Therefore what I say, I say just as the Father has told Me.”

@SarahElizPrincess711 4 ай бұрын

Everyone has a different map worldview, because of their upbringing, because of their, experiences, everything that makes them who they are and what they believe... Who are we to judge or put labels on anyone? Yet we do this because of our own "maps".. Are basic human needs boil down to love, safety and belonging.. And coming from our own map, which could be skewed because of this broken world, our critter brains want to immediately protect any of those that are affecting love, safety and belonging.. The five core human fears are.. 1. Extinction. 2. Mutilation or bodily invasion. 3. Loss of autonomy. 4. Separation abandonment or rejection. 5. Humiliation shame or worthlessness. So when coming from our own skewed yet valuable map version of her own experience and our ideas and thoughts and opinions, etc, they boil down to protecting love, safety and belonging, and our "critter brain" brings a sort of fear or protection regarding those five basic fears, and that's where the human race in general stems from. So trying to learn about each other without judgment but curiosity and have an understanding and compassion and empathy for one another, is truly The most sacrificial beneficial thing you can give to another person and yourself. And it all stems from God and his word, and what he's telling us to do with his power, not our own. Which John Foreman, of Switchfoot does very well with his songs and lyrics, and they never get old.

@TheAudioDabbler 3 ай бұрын

Great Conversation. So many amazing topics. Regarding the church, people who are using the name of God for manipulation is truly violating the 4th commandment, taking the Lords name in vain. Beer and boobs, you know where they stand, someone who is manipulating is trying to gain something. It's almost like witchcraft.

@angelalangdon4271 2 ай бұрын

"Hell is not a Christ-like concept?" Huh? Jesus taught quite a bit about hell. We learn far more about hell from Jesus’ words than from any other part of Scripture. Yikes, people...

@amillionstarsband102 2 ай бұрын

Correct! Totally biblical- hell. It may not be popular, but it’s reality.

@flowfreefireworship Ай бұрын

Falling away, itching ears turning unto fables

@angelalangdon4271 Ай бұрын

@@flowfreefireworship Bulls eye!!

@flowfreefireworship Ай бұрын

@angelalangdon4271 it is only sad for a moment, I loved switchfoot as a band my whole life pretty much, but the souls of the guys in the band are much more important than me liking their music, so I can only pray for them! God's Word always comes true, even the parts we might not want to see happen. If anything, seeing prophecy come true is an exciting time to be alive! Even if it means things like this

@Brittbrothers2 Ай бұрын

@@flowfreefireworship I don't think Jon ever agreed with these guys about their viewpoint of Hell. He almost made a concerned face when they said what they said. At no point in this video did he say anything heretical.

@santiago77920 4 ай бұрын

Hey Jon it's funny, You said" Find Truth" But you didn't say what your truth was. Because I would think as Believer, If you are one. That one would say that The Lord Jesus Christ is that truth. Seek his truth, Truth is a word and he is that word. Read and believe The will of the Father, Which is to believe that Jesus died on the cross to save us from our sins and conquered death by being raised on the third day. Now that is the only truth you need to know. Don't trust in your truth or any of the feelings or doubts you might have..