Jon Snow’s Fatal Flaws as Lord Commander

[@eiran_o_ddwywent]

Honestly, Jon is a lot like Ned Stark, he makes the right decision morally and in the wider narrative, the right decision for the future, but the wrong decision for the moment

[@ucnguyenanh9414]

That is correct, yeah sure choosing Stannis was the right decision, but Ned should've agreed with either Renly or Petyr's proposal, and then press on his regency instead of Joffrey's claim in his confrontation with Cersei in the throne room, then he could support Stannis in secret, hell he's already sent letter to him.

[@thing_under_the_stairs]

That damn Stark honour again... It got Robb killed (at least in the books, which are all that count, imo) too!

[@eiran_o_ddwywent]

@@ucnguyenanh9414 I think it also plays into the wider theme of ASOIAF. How idealism eventually beats out pragmatism. The theme is frequently played out by the Starks, represented best by how Ned’s memory is unblemished and even those who hate him (Barbrey Dustin for example) still respected him and his ideals, it’s hinted after all that she is working against the Boltons

[@dirrdevil]

I don't even think it has to be done in secret. Seize Cersei's children, supoort Renly's plot, but name Stannis as rightful heir publicly, and hold the Red Keep for him.​@@ucnguyenanh9414

[@nont18411]

Maybe the Starks themselves are not the problem. The corrupt world is the true problem.

[@S-fp7uz]

Being Bowen Marsh must be such a nightmare. Imagine your job is keeping track of all the supplies and food before a multi-year winter and your commander multiplies the number of mouths to feed, including freaking giants and nobody takes you fully serious, despite everyone heading towards starvation.

[@MrHotSalsa]

Bro was having heart palpitations every day

[@josephbulkin9222]

To be fair, this was a battle he was losing under the Old Bear as well. Bowen Marsh did nothing wrong.

[@courtneycherry5582]

I thought there was a theory that the green houses are going to be rebuilt.... Unless when they say winter is coming it's going to be the toughest they had in a while for basically every reason. War, Castle that just got ransacked, everyone fighting, no food, then to top it off more snow. SMH it's going to be crazy.

[@aaronthomson3639]

I would feel more bad for Bowen Marsh if not for the fact he's a Tywin Lannister ass kisser once you look more at his dialogue throughout the books.

[@alexmartin3143]

Jon pulled an Admiral Holdo level omission…

[@mosh57]

If only Jon had the wise council of Strong Belwas, then every chapter would have been at number 1

[@chasjetty8729]

He would also likely be eating more spicy locusts with the council of Strong Belwas, thereby throwing up blood, like a dragon, while ahorse.

[@a_n1441]

Strong Belwas is hungry. Strong Belwas will eat now

[@kierademian4855]

I find it kinda tragically hilarious that basically the main principle of rulership we hear about from Ned is about dinning with your lords- hearing their complaints and understanding their perspectives. Something that Jon seems willfully opposed to doing throughout the entirety of dance as he alienates himself from almost everyone in his command

[@Ivbo]

The thing about Jon is that he’s completely aware that he shouldn’t do something, but his heart prevents him from not doing it…he’s actually super intelligent. I imagine when he comes back he’s not going to listen to that voice telling him to do the right thing anymore, or at least he’s going to listen to it way less often.

[@thing_under_the_stairs]

We also have to remember that Jon's just a kid. He's maybe 16 when he gets stabbed. Considering the maturity levels of the average 16 yr old, I think he shows a surprising amount of wisdom, forethought, and care for the people he's leading. What were any of us doing when we were 16?

[@uryenatienza4093]

​@@thing_under_the_stairsI'm there rn and I'm getting absolutely cooked by my decisions

[@Al4___]

@thing_under_the_stairs the 16 year old during Medieval times isn't a kid, it's comparable to today's 24 years old

[@platypipope328]

@@Al4___ that isn't true. In medieval England the age of majority for men was 21. In the Dark Ages (or Early Middle Ages if you'd prefer) you might see people becoming warriors as young boys, this would only be in dire situations and was never the norm (especially not in actually leading a military).

[@thing_under_the_stairs]

@@Al4___ They still have the half-developed brain of a 16 yr old though. The human brain isn't fully mature until somewhere in the 20's. No matter what responsibilities teens might have had in the past, biologically, they were still immature, with immature brains.

[@florida9295]

Janos Slynts powerful friends sent their regards

[@josephbulkin9222]

I mean. They did. Bowen Marsh, Clydas, and a whole bunch of others were all in on the scheme. Nicking the toad's head off came back to bite.

[@JaMeshuggah]

When Janos Slynt's powerful friends are the White Walkers

[@zoid_on_youtube]

@@josephbulkin9222 they didnt betray Jon because of Slynt

[@josephbulkin9222]

@@zoid_on_youtube Definitely a factor.

[@zoid_on_youtube]

@@josephbulkin9222 I disagree with that. Killing Slynt earned more respect from the Watch than anything.He would probably have been betrayed earlier if he hadnt killed him.

[@RmsOceanic]

It's fascinating how Jon starts the book mainly focused on his duty, but keeps getting temptation thrown at him left and right to help his family one way or the other, and his attempts to insist that a word is not a sword sometimes work but more often add to the controversy that his decisions actually focused on his duty are already generating. And then the letter clearly cosigned by everyone north of the Twins comes along and basically says "no more clever tricks or threading the needle, you much choose love or duty". And he chooses love, to his ruin.

[@josephbulkin9222]

This theme of resisting temptation is with him throughout the entire series. It's only towards the end, with the letter, that he finally breaks.

[@reaganrambles1951]

@@josephbulkin9222Well, he does also technically break for Ygritte a few times. But you’re mostly right.

[@ZendikarMage42750]

​@@reaganrambles1951going to have to disagree with you here. At no point with Ygritte does Jon choose his love for her over his duty to the watch. I really don't think that GRRM is saying a person can't be loyal to their job while having sex with someone

[@AarreLisakki-s5e]

@@ZendikarMage42750 we already hear the watch is not quite as rigid on that point as much as he, a bastard himself, torments himself over it with the comments about watchmen sneaking to Mole's Town not being exactly executed -- but still, as this order happens to take a vow of celibacy, he is somewhat slipping there from his duty not to do so, and due to love. Well I guess you could argue his mission among the wildlings might be near impossible w/o that "compromise", given how her advocacy helps his status, so perhaps its not really an error anyhow.

[@ZendikarMage42750]

@AarreLisakki-s5e Well, you're right that it definitely ties in with the themes of love versus duty. I just think that that part of his story is there to show that Jon was willing to give up his love for Ygritte to stand by the Watch, and it is perhaps his regret over that which helps sway him to give up his duty to the watch over his love for who he believes to be his sister

[@Mj_Jetson]

2:04 tiny correction - Cersei doesn't send men to attack Jon Snow. She thinks about it, so the letter still counts as a mistake on Jon's part, but never goes through with it. Her plan was: 1. Get Marge and Osney caught in the act; 2. execute Marge and send Osney to the Wall with 100 dudes; 3. Osney takes out Jon Snow (and then she pinky promised she'd pardon him, give him a lordship and marry him). Safe to say that the plan is completely abandoned.

[@QuinnTheGM]

For NOW!

[@bmomgrimm6242]

I think another thing is that like Ned, Jon mostly assumes that people will do what is "right" and will remain loyal to him the lord commander and not the oath for which they swore.

[@Omenweaver]

Jon II is a strong contender for my favourite chapter in the whoel series. The carthasis of Janos Slynt finally receiving his due for betraying Ned is a necessary bit of relief as the story grows darker, and it finishes what Tyrion began in A Clash of Kings. And of course the real meat of it is watching Jon come into his own, all his lessons in leadership from Eddard, Aemon, Jeor Mormont and Donal Noye being put into practice. He ultimately fails to navigate the rotten plank bridge he has to walk as Lord Commander, but watching him start with so much promise remains meaningful. Also lmao at 3:07, "killing a rather large boy"

[@SadnessCentral]

The worst mistake Jon made as lord commander was never confessing his feelings to Satin.

[@HOTD108_]

I misread this as "never confessing his feelings to Satan" lol.

[@k.r.o.4762]

​@HOTD108_ in my case I read Stannis lmao

[@kiarashkassaie-l8u]

him and satin are gonna have a ton of sex scenes in winds of winter

[@Bavijaun]

@@HOTD108_same

[@zatoichi88]

True

[@a_n1441]

The way it’s handled in the books not only makes Jon feel more human, but actually makes the story feel more hopeful in its themes. Jon in the show makes every right choice, is punished for it, and then comes back unchanged. It doesn’t matter that he does everything right; Human cynicism and racism kills him for no good reason, because the conflict is resolved shortly afterward. In the books, Jon dies because he let his passions get in the way of his duty. He makes mistakes, and when his brothers kill him, they have tears in their eyes. It’s the human heart in conflict with itself, and it makes everyone involved more sympathetic. There is a feeling that we aren’t all ruled by our worst impulses, that we’re all fighting the same struggle.

[@ZendikarMage42750]

To add to your excellent comment, it's not even a bad impulse that gets Jon killed. Wanting to rescue your alleged sister from a monster is a great impulse to have, and it's heartbreaking that this is what gets Jon killed

[@fightingmedialounge519]

Wouldn't say it's more hopeful considering it shows following your heart also gets you killed.

[@yaboidocphil6660]

Jon creates worst conditions possible at the wall, asked to leave Night's Watch

[@tsarcastic3722]

My estimation of Jon Snow as a Lord Commander just fucking plummeted.

[@AwesomeReshiram]

5 fucking forts in yi ti and then there's this pigmy thing over in westeros

[@LusiaEyre]

I doubt that Jon was having any 'lordling' lessons with Ned, but his main knowledge about being a lord of anything comes from his time observing his father. It is entirely possible that Ned wasn't one for outward explanations and justifying every decision in detail to his subordinates. What Jon probably failed to account for was the difference in circumstances and level of power. Also, Jon's heart is in a good place. He gravitates towards 'good choices' and objectively good principles. But a little like Ned, despite seeing many vile things people are capable of, he assumes people will wait in line while he does the good thing and they get their comeuppance. Just like Ned, Jon wasn't expecting "daggers in the dark".

[@mollofamerika]

the problem is that Ned never got lordling lessons either - Brandon got all that attention. Ned is relatively disconnected from his northern traditions/lore and Great Lord vibes he was trained to lead troops at the eyre, but he doesn't really have a good head for playing the game. lots of the skills are transferrable, and his vassels love him because they were all war buddies and ned was a great commander

[@fightingmedialounge519]

He actually has more in common with Rhaegars style of leadership.

[@LusiaEyre]

@fightingmedialounge519 we know very little about Rheagar and his leadership style, BUT I can kind of see it... Rhaegar seemed to inspire loyalty through acts of kindness and having (outwardly) good principles. Yet, he could get lost in his own head and do stuff he deemed necessary with some sort of tunnel vision and mostly in secret. For some reason, he decided that this Lyanna thing was worth risking everything, told nobody, and ignored a blody war raging around, which led him to his doom. Is that what you meant? Of course, any resemblance of Rhaegar comes from 'nature' and Ned's from 'nurture'. If he is trying to fit a lordly pattern, then he's probably thinking of Ned. But his personality being more of Rhaegar's could make him respond in a similar way?

[@fightingmedialounge519]

@LusiaEyre close. More just that he would make decisions seemingly counter to the values and desires of the institution he wished to lead while not doing much to justify himself to his followers.

[@JervisGermane]

I'm sure this won't make the list, but I keep going back to his missed opportunity with the Iron Bank. Braavos doesn't have enough trees, and the Wall has too many. The Night's Watch could sell the Iron Bank logging rights worth more to them than anything the Night's Watch might require. He could have obtained enough men and provisions with a signature to solve ALL his problems.

[@larryf4180]

I could not agree less with your assessment of Jon VII. The risk of saying the words before the heart tree was an important one. It accomplished multiple things. 1. it showed the wildlings that were forced to submit to Stannis in a weird Red God ritual that they could still keep the Gods of their ancestors. (Very important given the faces carved into the trees in Jon V) 2. It showed the wildlings that Jon was willing to risk his own life and limb for even them. 3. (this is an unintended consequence) It led to the rescue and recruiting of more wildlings, including Wun Wun.

[@maxmustermann9058]

Jon in ADWD and Tyrion in ACOC are my favorite storylines of their respective books, because it feels like that sweetpoint that DnD campaigns sometimes reach in the mid-levels. The characters already have a significant amount of experiences, skill, influence and ressources, calling the shots in their region, but are still far from god level or nation changing people, having to balance different more powerful factions.

[@error-err-1016]

Darkstar would've been the best Lord Commander.

[@QuinnTheGM]

He is of the Night(‘s Watch)

[@God_loves_you_70x7]

​@@QuinnTheGMThe Gospel summed up 1. We have all sinned and fallen short of God's glory - 1 sin disqualifies us from heaven - 1 separates us from God - 1 is enough to send us to Helll 2. God came down to earth in human form (Jesus) - to live the perfect life for us (have a perfect record) - suffer for us leading up to the cross, on the cross, and die for us - He did this, to take the FULL punishment for ours sins 3. This means, if we believe and follow Jesus, repent of (turn away from ours sins), ask God for forgiveness, for what we have done - Jesus will give us His record (which is perfect and clean) instead of us having our own record (which would be full of sins) - meaning we can enter into heaven, for all eternity, instead of going to hell for all eternity Share this message with as many people as possible, so they may have a chance at salvation and have a chance at being saved

[@AwesomeReshiram]

​@@God_loves_you_70x7why yes Darkstar is of the lord

[@God_loves_you_70x7]

@AwesomeReshiram just type in - was Jesus real, is there any evidence for His existence You'll find out that God is real, as He still performs miracles today, watch a video from a youtuber named Testify - called - miracles tested 3 cases that defy science

[@dontGetMunsoned]

If Stannis had known Jon broke his oath, he would’ve executed him himself.

[@kalinmir]

pretty much

[@AarreLisakki-s5e]

what do you mean, didnt's Stannis himself urge him to break his oath and be legitimized as trueborn and heir to winterfel by his command, so as to fight for him?

[@dontGetMunsoned]

@@AarreLisakki-s5e It's a joke. Davos saved Stannis by smuggling, and got his fingers cut off for it. Jon could save Stannis by breaking his oath, but then... (my original comment)

[@kalinmir]

@@AarreLisakki-s5e legitimizing him changes who he is and as a Stark he would no longer be bound by Snow's oaths...besides king in the setting can pretty much do whatever and presumably also relive him of his oaths

[@AarreLisakki-s5e]

@@kalinmir yeah I think Stannis there is of the conviction in the absolute power of the monarch -- but we can see that customs and customary laws can still limit what they're practically able to do (like the line of sucession crisis in HotD) But on the other hand I really don't think merely getting legitimized itself would be seen by the cusoms of the land as ending an oath that expicitly doesn't end untill one's death, really anywhere in Westeros. That's a personal oath by John, its a promise John gave to the Gods in a Weirwood. Stannis can order him act against his words of course, but what possible act of another mortal could un-say one's word? And Night's Watch in particular is an institution particularly set apart from secular powers like kings and lords and self-governed for ten millenia , so its unlikely the North at least would even see Stannis having any legitimacy interfering with its members regardless.

[@mathiaslingerfelt3849]

People complain about last season Jon (rightfully so) but to me he's a boring character from season one (an unpopular opinion, I know). When I first watched the show I didn't understand the hype around him, then I read the books and he turned out to be one of the best characters. So I realized he's actually cool af, the problem is how the show erased a lot of his personality, and quite frankly, not a big fan of Kit's performance either (eight seasons of 😦).

[@DrewbattleTheGreat]

He was well liked on the show but I agree they realy didnt give him much to work with

[@josephbulkin9222]

Kit Harrington was too wooden to play Jon. And too old.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

​@@josephbulkin9222 wouldn't say he's too wooden. He gave the performance asked of him.

[@josephbulkin9222]

@@fightingmedialounge519 Your right. Something my father told me, actors are puppets. The blame should alway go to the directors.

[@CesarALlanos]

Jon’s chapters in ADWD are my favorite POV of the entire series. This boy of 17 is forced to contend with apocalyptic monsters, dwindling supplies, enemies turned allies, allies turned enemies, a political hellscape made of his former home, and the trauma of his life thus far. I felt like I was going to have a panic attack every time I read his thoughts, this poor man has the weight of the world thrust in his shoulders and, of course, he fails.

[@Revi-yr1cx]

He is actually 15 at the time of ADWD, which makes it just more impressive that he made it that far.

[@pedroluiz8750]

​@@Revi-yr1cx no 17

[@GRB-tj6uj]

Notwithstanding some of the real blunders he makes, Jon's risk taking is reasonable. The situation of the Night's Watch is quite hopeless. Even if everything goes right for them it is highly unlikely that they can stop the Others. If you're likely to lose in some situation you want higher variance in the possible outcomes of your actions which means taking risks (that's why you only attempt a hail mary in crunch situations). Getting murdered by his own men is, statistically speaking, not that bad of an outcome. If he plays it safe it's assured that the Others breach the Wall and kill everybody. If he takes risk there's a possibility that it goes wrong (and it does) amd everybody dies, but it also gives them a chance of survival. Which doesn't mean that the Pink Letter fiasco wasn't a bone headed blunder, but it excuses getting involved with Northern politics and Stannis. Without a politically unified North they're toast anyway.

[@josephbulkin9222]

Tycho Nestoris mention! Based member of Braavos's merchant guild.

[@arturleperoke3205]

Bowen Marsh Role and Position is heavily underestimated: an ancient/medieval army that looses its baggadge-train/supply IS DONE - end of campaign - end of war. e.g.: When Persian King Xerxes suffered a defeat at Salamis, his army waaaaay outnumbered the greeks and he was in the heart of greece, YET the notion of his captains that his supply for his huge army is in danger send him back home. Where did he learn that? from his Father Darius who nearly lost an army when he tried to subjugate the Scythians. They gave no battle but destroyed his armie´s baggadge-train and waited.

[@siriusb22]

You're making our that Jon should've shared more. In normal circumstances I would agree. However an army of the dead and others are amassing to form an existential threat. His "best" advisors can't even accept that 100,000 wildlings are better off not being added to the numbers of the others. How is he supposed to get anything done. He had to send his friends away because he could trust them. Grrm went to great lengths to show Jon's political acumen. This is a very naive idealistic video. Jon's in command. Not ceo, not team leader. He's in command and they are at war.

[@Lionstar16]

I think Jon is a good leader as evident by how he lead the defence of the Wall against the wildings before Stannis arrived to save the day but he was up against circumstances that would break even the most competent of leaders

[@Omenweaver]

I agree, Jon was dealt an awful hand, but I think if he hadn't lost his mind at the end and tried to abandon his post, he could have made it, that was the straw that broke the camel's back

[@Ant509y]

In a situation less completely fucked, he would have had the time to grow into his role and his mistakes wouldn’t have been fatal. A couple less crises, a couple less intensely tempting situations where he had to skirt the line of the Night’s Watch’s neutrality, and they would have thrived under Jon.

[@mintw4241]

@@Omenweaverpersonally I’m of the opinion that by the point where he decides to go south it’s too late - the mutiny in the book has definitely been planned and fully formed for some time

[@jacobseed2123]

"Keep your friends close and your enemies closer" Whoever said that didn't have many enemies

[@Drae-gk6dl]

Satin mentioned. PROTECC mode engaged.

[@thepaulwall]

Satin has everyone at the wall dancing on strings, he is the ultimate puppet master

[@Carpman_]

I think this is an excellent format and I’d gladly see videos about other leaders’ best and worst political/strategic decisions

[@frankyg821]

I never thought of Jon having fatal flaws, just his uncle Ned, who is truly a tragic hero

[@andilea-mab4199]

I love Book Jon Snow. He's very flawed and complicated

[@josephbulkin9222]

He's actually a character in the books.

[@Lumistrocity]

This is a fun style of video, keep it up excited for Kevin to spit hotter flames than balerion when he roasts cersei

[@daveqm1024]

The chapter where Jon takes the new recruits north of the wall to say their vows is one of my favorite Jon Snow moments in the series. Him observing how their voices start out timid and reluctant while saying their vows, but how the farther into the oath they get their voices gradually become stronger and more confident, like you’re actually seeing them mentally transition from civilian boys into men of the Night’s Watch, and Jon feels proud of them. I love that chapter.

[@mollofamerika]

Jon's absolute best moment is the braavosi banker and the idea to buy glass/glass makers - also shows his insight into how political power works

[@Flode_boyy]

Cersie video next pleeeease twitter people are just taking it too far😭🙏

[@Flode_boyy]

*cersei

[@youngnat]

Cersei fans don’t understand the bias views that come from POVs

[@QuinnTheGM]

She’s up next!

[@NortonjawX]

Its Twitter lmao. The most mentally unstable people on the internet xd

[@josephbulkin9222]

@@NortonjawX Now it's bluesky, with all the nutcases, because of the migration.

[@PineappleLiar]

When reading the books I remember being struck by how socially isolated Jon makes himself from the common Night’s Watchmen. Like he feels that he can’t just talk to Pip and Grenn anymore, and only associates with people whose job it it to talk to him (his only continued friends being the Lord Commander’s stewards). He’s trying to become like Ned, or Mormont, but is referencing his biased version of them as untouchable moral bastions rather than actual humans. And the examples of personable leaders he has, in Tormund and Mance, are wildlings, and thus a part of an identity that he’s trying to distance himself from. Anyways I’m sure being resurrected from the dead will only help Jon’s communication issues 100%

[@juanferandrade2117]

I think it come from everything Ned taught him, he was lord commander so they MUST follow his commands, but the nights watch is literally filled with criminals and murderers that don’t particularly like getting told what to do, especially if it goes against 1000 years of tradition and their own beliefs. Basically what happens to Mormont in the show.

[@JaMeshuggah]

11:20 never forget

[@reaganrambles1951]

I loved this video, and I’m even more excited for your breakdown of Cersei’s political blunders in AFFC next week. Keep up the good work!

[@paulcourtemanche3549]

1:29 small hands, that was his problem

[@JonasBaratheon]

Never had the makings of a varsity athlete.

[@ZeDitto3]

3:20 that was a great slip up to keep in. You could have edited out but you didn’t and I enjoyed that. Thank you. That was fun.

[@Mj_Jetson]

Oh fun Cersei's mistakes (that's going to be a _very_ long video and I am here for it!) Apart from her general hypocrisy and allergic reaction to self-reflection and especially self-criticism, I think my favorite mistake of hers is right after the High Septon eleciton, she thinks: "Next time, I will choose their master for them" (Cersei VI AFfC). Like... yeah Cersei, great plan... you probably should've thought of that _this_ time? Its absolutely my head-canon that for at least a century, High Septons have been unofficially appointed by the Crown, and the eleciton is a mere formality - that's why why Tyrion calls the new High Septon "his choice" (Tyrion XI ACoK) and never speaks of an eleciton. Thus why Torbert and Raynard were so eager to bow and scrape and wash Cersei's feet - they were looking for her endorsement. The eleciton is AFfC was so drawn out because the Crown didn't pick a winner - it was the first _real_ eleciton in ages. Cersei either didn't realize she had the power to end the eleciton, or didn't care?

[@josephbulkin9222]

Wouldn't be the first time Cersei ignored the power she had, eh?

[@niallgaffney2475]

Jon modelled his Lord Commandership of the Night’s Watch after LC Mormont a little too hard 😅

[@gw_leibniz]

OMG, does Jon really never discuss the deal with the Iron Bank with the stewards? I never noticed this. I guess I just assumed he had. Would that have reassured Bowen Marsh, tho? "No worries, Lord Steward. I just took out a massive loan from the Iron Bank we have no way to pay back." "You did WHAT?"

[@QuinnTheGM]

Yeah he doesn’t mention it once. Like I said I think Marsh would have issues with the long-term impacts, but it’d be massive short term

[@whyareyoureadingmynickname8158]

Here's a challenge - name one Cersei chapter in which she doesn't fuck up anything.

[@QuinnTheGM]

Cersei I and II, ADWD

[@josephbulkin9222]

Her chapters in Dance.

[@lucasdolding6924]

@@QuinnTheGM She's just having a breather for when she makes her biggest blunders in Cersei I TWoW

[@The_Malcontented]

@@QuinnTheGM Doesn't count; it's not your favorite book ever AFFC

[@Ant509y]

@@QuinnTheGMagreed, early on she doesn’t do anything terribly awful, is right to mistrust the Tyrell’s (she doesn’t know but they killed her son!) and her beliefs Tyrion could be in the walls is very accurate, just Varys instead, to equal detriment. She does some ridiculously stupid things but like, not really in those chapters! And her feelings are actually mostly valid! Like, she does legitimately believe Tyrion killed her son, it’s not like she was trying to frame him on purpose, you know? Evil, but her hatred *at this point, not earlier* is relatively valid.

[@DarkVeghetta]

I laughed for a solid 20 seconds at "As far as I can tell, HBO-John has no flaws whatsoever." It's funny because it's both true and it functions as scathing criticism.

[@MultiKommandant]

The flaws each character has in the books makes their virtues shine all the brighter. The conflict is as much with what they themselves want vs what they need as any outside rivalries/tensions. Jon is immature. He tries, I dare say what he went through was way beyond what anyone else could have done in his shoes. With the limited experience he had and the strong morals/values he held, there probably wasn't a ton more he could have done without sacrificing something he cared about. Sometimes you just can't win, no matter how much you struggle.

[@sassquatch212]

Jon’s chapters in ADWD are so good. Want to read them again now after this.

[@bluephoenix6067]

Could it also be possible that he learned a bit of the "Do what I say, don't worry about why" from Jeor? And then attributed that to the position of Lord Commander and not the fact that he was Jeor "the Bear" Mormont, and had years of trust built up (y'know until the end with a couple upstart rookies)

[@jaimefranco4448]

Great video Quinn. I loved the different book covers for each chapter but my favourite one was missing. It's the Spanish version but the old one from the publisher Gigamesh. It's a beautiful ilustration about Dany fleeing with Drogon. I recommend you give them a look (the rest of the books also are great covers)

[@DarkVeghetta]

As someone who hasn't read the books but watched the show, this was a very interesting watch.

[@josephyoung2593]

Looking forward to the Cersei video, but it occurs to me there's probably a miniseries in exploring the various cultures and beliefs of those who live beyond the Wall. You could follow that up with discussions of the Ironborn, the power structures of Qarth etc. I'm sure you'd do them very well.

[@Calebe_Sagaz]

Jon Snow wasn't wrong. Yes, he made mistakes, but he made important decisions for the future, mainly calling on the wildlings and wanting the Night's Watch to be bigger and stronger. Maybe the decisions he made (that others didn't like) will result in their victory and everyone will realize that Jon was right.

[@Valkanna.Nublet]

His biggest flaw is that he don't want it ;)

[@The_Malcontented]

Jon, I want you to have this sword since you're a young man in his physical prime who can train to become a great warrior, whereas I'm an old man. I don't want it. Jon, the only way to keep Janos Slynt from becoming Lord Commander is to eliminate the splitting of the vote between Ser Denys and Cotter Pyke by having their supporters vote for you. I don't want it. Jon, I the king am wiling to release you from your vows and make you Lord of Winterfell, which will allow your family to reclaim their ancestral home and dominion of The North. Oh and you'll be married to a drop-dead-gorgeous woman as part of it. I don't want it.

[@josephbulkin9222]

@@The_Malcontented The truth is. With a lot of those things, Jon DOES want it. That has always been a core of his character, that he wants it, and how he fights his temptations. Only to break at the worst possible moment.

[@hardrada3534]

"Oh you think he's dead do you?" - GRRM on Jon Snows "death" George expected a debate on whether or not he was dead to be debated until the next book, but the show put an end to that as they just resurrect him. I have a theory I call Torjon/Jontor for it involves glamours and shadowbinding the two to be of "onemind" Read his last chapter and specifically his interactions with Melisandre over the course of it as well as the rest of the book. He knows that glamours work as he saw to that with Mance being glamoured as rattleshirt. After getting the pink letter he thinks back on Mels work and then takes two hours we're not given to change the plan. I think he sacrificed a white bull(Tormund) and made him and Tormund of one mind by lacing eachother's shadows upon each other. His shadow is experiencing what Tormund is experiencing and the glamour/shadow effect is making them of "onemind" like Jon Snow wanted. It's effect is similar to the feelings Arya has when she changes faces and remembers things that most certainly didn't happen to Arya but likely the face of the person she's using. This is how Tormund is so in character as Jon, only slipping up in tiny details in his inner monologue. We learn from King Stannis that he experienced what happened with his shadows. This is how Jon feels the 4th dagger when the book explicitly states "he didn't feel the fourth dagger, only the cold." Also Jon likely never said ghost, his throat was slit. He still likely sent his shadow to ghost anyways, or will be picked up by ghost to fit the Man->Wolf->Man vision. This leaves us with TorJon as Jon is of Onemind with Tormund currently wearing those golden bracelets of Tormund's and his shadow wrapped upon him, being of "onemind." Torjon will continue to act as Tormund and will likely be a PoV character early in Winds alongside maybe Ghost. When the glamour is released Jon will likely be comatose from not having his own shadow which Mel will eventually fix, only after "Arya Stark" has come and gone for Braavos and Stannis being informed of Jons death. A new Lord Commander will be picked and create a ton of Chaos when Jon awakes. Jon will leave to alleviate it, effectively released from his vows. However during this time Jon experiencing both Torjons and Ghost will awake knowing something. Afterall its about damn time we get some reveals about Jon's parentage. There is little narrative difference between awaking from a coma and being resurrected, but as always the devils in the details. If Jon is dead than he would be resurrected as a Wight, incomplete, static, certainly infertile(horrible trait for a king), and othered by the magical hinge of the world known as the wall. Awaking from a magical Coma on the other hand lacks those drawbacks. Best part is Jon's Shadow being in ghost would allow him to maybe learn somethings as Val is likely not to be concerned with a Wolf, or talking with Tormund(Jon). Order of the Green Hand has an excellent deep dive on both Jon Snow not dying and who sent the pink letter i'd really recommend.

[@josephbulkin9222]

If only he listened to his officers. Victarion would never have fallen for what Jon fell for. My hero.

[@InterestingNerdClub]

Never clicked a thumbnail so fast

[@AndrewBenson1186]

Jon Snow never had the making of a varsity lord commander....lol instant like 👌👌👌👌

[@Kidd-In-Charge]

I love how you keep changing the book cover lol

[@wallybonejengles5595]

How bad are we gonna hurt if Satin is the faceless 4th knife that plunged into Jons heart?

[@The_Malcontented]

Dissecting CERSEI'S bad decisions in next week's video?! I'mma need a lot of popcorn

[@masterofallthelakesintown2472]

1:28 aye, thats a Lord Commander we are speaking about!

[@sirgoose629]

Absolute banger video! loved it!!

[@martinlivry1751]

What is interesting is that both Robb and Jon have similar flaws in their leadership. They both have communication issues with the people they work with and do not have a precise long term plan which tends to favor dissent and plot against them. I think it is important to point that these characters are 15 years old at the beginning of the book, with no real experience in ruling (expecially Jon because he was bound to inherit nothing). So it's not surprising to see both of them doing such mistakes. I would still argue that Jon came up with far much more imaginative decisions and is commandable for having inherritated a weakened position. Although it is an easy argument to make when we have no chapter showing robb insight.

[@benjamingrunbaum3601]

Taking the recruits to the heart tree shows he still respects tradition and the Old Gods

[@trippel122]

FYI you say Jon nine at 3:28 but it shows XI in roman numbers

[@kitsunekodomo]

I heard someone say that Allister Thorne would've treated Jon better if he knew that Jon was the son of Reagar.

[@QuinnTheGM]

For sure, he was a Targaryen loyalist

[@TheStoneTargaryen]

I gotta say. The baby swap is gonna be the reason why Shireen gets burned. Mel is gunna know about the switch, but she still needs that kings blood, which she’ll take that she needs to resurrect Jon

[@krabe1629]

Haven't Quinned my GM in DAYS now what a relief

[@MrKtosKto]

Interesting that Jon is kinda obssessed with fighting the supernatural threat of the Others, when Rhaegar also had a supernatural obsession with a prophecy (which likely ties into defeating the Others)...

[@tomgymer7719]

The thing that really gets me about Jon is not constantly reminding people that if they turn away the wildlings it will mean even more wights to fight. Like, it is the simplest and best argument for taking them in, and he only makes it once or twice, and otherwise just ignores people complaining. The people complaining are kind of dumb not to see it, but still, Jon absolutely fails to hammer it home.

[@joshuajackson530]

What do you call it when you have sleep paralysis in Herron Hall and Daemon is going through the halls threatening to put people to the sword? Having a sleep paralysis Deamon…

[@TheseUseless]

I feel like the issue here is that a lot (not all) of his mistakes are not a result of a failing of judgement, or a lack of intelligence- but that his goals are so fundamentally dangerous, to work towards them almost necessarily leads to discontent. With then his blatant breaking of his oath to kill Ramsay being the (avoidable) nail in the coffin. He did make a lot of mistakes but for a 16 year old I think he did superbly.

[@ThommyofThenn]

For me? You really didn't need to do that but thank you, i really liked this😊

[@siamzero9480]

11:20 I hope that cover is fanart, 'cause that silhouette is from the Dragon Age cover

[@natemccollum3731]

Great video super excited for Cersei. U could do Catelyn Stark too

[@Mj_Jetson]

12:13 executing the Weeper... aaaarg so I suppose pledging to do this to Bowen Marsh privately could go a long way to appeasing him, but if it gets out publicly that he intends to execute the Weeper, then no way the Watch can ever hope to have any sort of peaceful interaction or deal with the Weeper or his forces, right?

[@joeshafer6806]

Jons worst decision was not pledging the full power of the watch to the One True Kings cause

[@status_quo_post]

If only Stonesnake had been there. He could have saved Jon.

[@facundogonza5740]

This is a theory of mine. But.... why would the Iron Bank offer the Night's Watch anything? Or agree to any kind of deal? It really comes of as strange to me that the Iron Bank will not know what the Watch is. Heck Castle Black is in state of disrepair and I doubt Tycho is an idiot. I may be reading to much into it. But I feel the Iron Bank MAY have some interest in the Watch, not exactly financial ones though. Maybe the Watch has more friends they know? Because you remember the Faceless Men seem to have some interest in House Stark.

[@Millegan11]

Not only was Jon going to march south in violation of his oath, he gave command of the ranging to Tormund. Using the wildlings was already wildly unpopular, but giving a command of men of the night's watch over to a wildling was foolish. I get that he already sent away almost all of the men in the watch that he could trust, but still foolish.

[@maxwell_j_R]

Jon does explicitly tell his brothers why he let the Wildlings through the Wall (so they don't become part of the undead army).

[@idontuploadanym0re]

i can’t be too judgmental of Jon. had i been in his situation i would’ve crumbled under the pressure on day one. however, i think his biggest mistakes were a lack of communication with Bowen Marsh and sending his friends away!! both of these habits were massive unforced errors that likely contributed a lot to his ultimate downfall.

[@jsull81]

This drives me crazy Every reread!! Just talk to your officers, and explain what's going on! I mean, what did he expect 😖

[@kalmes]

14:10 not Cregan Stark, i think his surname is Karstark. Great video though. In taking Lord Janos' head, Jon left the world better off than when he arrived.

[@brianlowe904]

Jon does explain why he let the wildlings through the wall and the other high officers just ignore him. Even the northern lords who have even less of a reason to listen are placated by Jon’s decision to take hostages. Meanwhile Bowen doesn’t even want them to hold weapons. They are not his friends and they wouldn’t change their minds just cause Jon spent more time explaining things. Jon should have explained his plan to feed the watch but you gotta understand from Bowens perspective they should fight the wildlings and the others. We need to stop pretending that Bowen and many of the other high officers are doing things for completely rational reasons. What are you going to do now that the wildlings are past the wall? Eject them lol? As the throne to help? You know the throne that even when you were in their good graces didn’t send any men lol. The watch has been deteriorating for years.

[@reesehendricksen1871]

I can’t find it in my heart to hate the Old Pomegranate. He tries his best to abide all the changes Jon makes to the watch, yet see’s from his limited POV that Jon is going to kill the watch. So it is with duty he chooses to kill Jon, however much it pains him to do so.

[@justdirt]

Jon like Dany and even Cersei are rulers put into unwinnable scenarios in which they all chose different methods to seize control. Jon acts for the good for as many people and does things for the long term even if they are harsh. Dany chooses the middle ground, choosing to concede some things in the name of peace. Cersei chooses herself over everything. None of these people get a happy ending. Myreen is at war and the Harpy still is a threat, Cersei has almost no power with Mace now controlling most of the small council and the faith having increased power. And Jon was stabbed by his brothers. I don't think Jon had any way out of this. His fate was sealed when he was elected Lord Commander. Was picking the boy he had a crush on as his ward and lead steward a good choice? No, but that didn't get him killed. What got Jon killed was having empathy around men who lack it. It was sending away his friends when he needed them most. Jon didn't die because he was a bad lord commander, he died because he got careless and walked ahead of his guards without Ghost. He didn't die because of some grand conspiracy, he pissed off 4 dudes who shanked him when they had the opportunity. Again, even if Jon had made literally every decision to help his men and no one else, he still dies at some point. He could have been more vocal, but every time Jon does explain himself to his top officers, he is met with ignorance, bigotry, and indifference. We know from Dany that simply playing both sides and letting some bad things happen for the sake of unity also doesn't work. Why would it work for Jon?

[@WestonEvans]

What do you mean he hasn’t seen the threat of the others? He got nerve damage fighting one and finding their weakness. Pretty safe to assume there’s more where that came from

[@QuinnTheGM]

He fought a wight, not an Other

[@CorvoThan]

i see a lot of similarities between jons rule at the wall and daenerys rule in slavers bay

[@raultherad2380]

Barristan: “The harpy are in our walls, the Yunkai are at our gates, your people are sick and starving your grace!” Dany: “But Dario😌😚😍

[@QTC1688]

I mean “shut the f up undead ice demons are coming do what I say” would convince me. But hey Bowen do Bowen.

[@zenebean]

Him complaining so much about Bowen Marsh and then not giving him the one thing most important to the guy: that they will in fact NOT starve and even with the wildlings. Bowen would have known Jon was actually listening to him. But still, even with that, straight up signing up for your order's death sentence by abandoning your post was going to kill Jon likely no matter what he did beforehand.

[@AMpersand_videos]

Jon may be a Targaryen bastard but at heart he is a Stark. He and Ned have the same fatal flaw - failing to realize they are in ASOIAF and behaving honorably, believing that if they do good (telling Cersei to escape, letting the Wildlings cross the wall, etc) good will come. They're both heroic noble protagonists in a narrative which is absolutely not welcoming to them.

[@WorthlessWinner]

HOW IS SAM STILL FAT? They've all been living on limited rations and doing exertions in the cold for years!

[@Ant509y]

It takes time to lose weight you know. Like a lot of time. And if Sam was 350 pounds at the start, and lost a hundred pounds, he’d still be fat, especially by the standards of this land which doesn’t have a common obesity epidemic.

[@Ant509y]

Also even the summer islanders mention how much he eats. Which is normal for someone particularly fat, even maintaining weight then requires what seems a huge amount of food… and the body sends those hunger signals to you. You’re simply hungrier because your body doesn’t want to be at below a maintanence level.

[@WorthlessWinner]

@@Ant509y - I understand that, I'm just unsure where he's getting all this food. I might have over-estimated how long he's been at the wall though, the books coming out over such a long period made me think they're set over one. Googling, it seems he's been there for 2 and a half years which should be enough to lose more than 100 lbs.

[@Ant509y]

@@WorthlessWinner Well people always bring up how much he eats. He eats a lot!

[@PalpatineIsAJew]

Not giving the one true king the castles he deserved and needed.

[@reiniervsmeden]

I think this video might have been better if you would have ranked the chapters chronologically. (still liked it)

[@QuinnTheGM]

That’s what I ended up doing for Cersei

[@ec7458]

Damn you cooked with this one

[@Al4___]

I still think Jon sending away his loyalists like Edd and Emmett is the biggest mistake by far

[@humzakhalid7902]

13:05 he doesnt just get a bunch of inexperienced newbies he gets a giant...! but yeah i guess the giant could have been part of the whole group tormund brings in so i guess its just georgie padding the already huge book up