Jon Snow's Pyre Will Mirror Drogo's Pyre - Ice and Fire Theory

[@DrummerDaddio]

Your channel has really made me appreciate GRRM's multi-layered symbolism. Thanks for all that you do to enlighten us; to "bring the light", so to speak.

[@DavidLightbringer]

My pleasure! thank you

[@cledosliop4175]

same！

[@newportspapi7174]

It’s actually crazy how in your face George is with reusing symbolism. Great video!

[@newportspapi7174]

The idea of ghost being part of Jon’s pyre is interesting. Ghost would be like Drogo/Drogo’s Stallion and resurrected Jon would represent Drogon. When Jon awakens he’d carry Ghost’s spirit in him too. This also makes me think about the ADWD Prolouge where Varamyr said Ghost would be a second life worthy of a king. Ghost after dying in the pyre would live his second life through Jon as a king.

[@newportspapi7174]

Also a direwolf dying so the dragon can wake is kinda symbolic of jon discovering his heritage.

[@DavidLightbringer]

great comments all. I’ve pointed at that Drogo scene before and said that it foreshadows Ghost being killed to resurrect Jon.

[@SixesandSevens6]

@@DavidLightbringer😢

[@SixesandSevens6]

@@newportspapi7174I don’t want this to be true 😢

[@ricopena2053]

Your Ghost and Dany comparison is spot on! Now I want them to meet. Plus a direwolf and dragon interaction would be epic!

[@Lumistrocity]

A large horse sized ghost growling down rhaegal

[@betoballe]

As with all your content, loving this format! If I may ask though, please don't stop the chapter rereads. I believe they are great in helping us -mere mortals, to grasp and understand all the parallels and archetypes GRRM has created. Plus, it gives us the chance to praise Garth together. XD

[@DavidLightbringer]

Oh no, the plan is to do those every week and to pull these shorter clip videos out of them every week, I think it’s really going to work as a format

[@farahgiovanna]

yay🎉

[@selysebaratheonsmustache973]

Thank you for being one of the few currently and regularly putting out QUALITY ASOIAF content.

[@squisherking]

Always loved your theory that mirri maz duurs ritual to drogo was actually a skinchanger reanimation ritual. It just didnt work since drogo wasnt fully bonded to his horse.

[@DavidLightbringer]

need to reread that chapter soon, was just thinking about that

[@squisherking]

Absolutely! Thatd be a great one

[@janel.8921]

The Dothraki are not sentimental about their horses. They do not name their horses. Drogo’s horse was known as his red. Danny’s hose was known as her silver. Not Red and Silver.

[@Sienisota]

I think it didn't work, because Dany's sacrifice, her baby, wasn't going to live, and thus wasn't a sufficient sacrifice. I think it was simply a Targeryan stillborn dragon baby from the start, not because of the magic. The magic took, but baby's mutation, and carrying Dany into the tent with death, screwed up the ritual.

[@viridianveritas]

The knife that Miri uses to resurrect Drogo is described as leaf shaped and I think bronze. That makes me think of the children of the forest being involved in reconnecting Jon with his body.

[@DavidLightbringer]

oh yeah that chapter is a huge Jon foreshadowing

[@permiebird937]

Really good video, I hadn't thought about Jon's resurrection and Drogo's pyre being mirrors, but it fits perfectly.

[@michaelludlow1282]

As a recent subscriber whose been going through all your big theory playlists, these new episodes which tie together larger concepts are awesome. Love the vibe

[@DavidLightbringer]

thanks for that feedback!!

[@iateabagelonce]

I just wanted to say that I really appreciate this channel. You help me love and appreciate ASOIAF even more, and I love all the connections you draw between texts in your analyses. This channel really opens up my imagination and it's fun and relaxing to listen to while I work. Thank you for all your hard work and for keeping this channel up for so long!

[@simaogomes3119]

What a great video. It's crazy how much symbolism and parallels fly over my head when I'm reading the books, watching your videos makes me appreciate them so much more :D

[@catherinehalverson1436]

More Jon and Dany parallels? Yes please!

[@somegenerichandle]

I'm so appreciative you are doing these edited bits from your livestreams. This is such a cool potential parallel. It reminds me of that old Glidus video about The Price of Life and Death. Maybe this is how Shireen dies in the books... you know someone will need to be sacrificed. And yeah John Brown is very cool. I went to his farm a couple year ago. Timbuctoo makes me proud to be a NYer. The wickerman reminds me of the custom of St. Bridget crosses too.

[@sershyguyofthemushrooms9880]

Also jon waking dragons from stone might be the moon meteors if it happens around the same time

[@greenknightable]

Of course Ghost's shadow will resurrect in Jon. Jon's character is based on Leigh Brackett's original character Eric John Stark. Who is raised by fear hounds on Skaith. And referred to as a werewolf in a number of scenes.

[@DavidLightbringer]

never heard of that series or author

[@EtInYoutubeCommentsEgo]

intertextuality is strong with this one, what a find! good reference game

[@greenknightable]

@@DavidLightbringer you can find some of her work on KZbin. I would recommend Black Amazon of Mars. It's a free novella . And does give an example of this early on. Also Others...

[@lrlavalais2068]

Wow. You are absolutely right on spot with this one. They even refer to him as a "great black ape" and Jon Snow is "Black Bastard with the white guardian"..... Things that make you go hmmm. Thank you for sharing.

[@nickmajors2459]

Great job King, your videos are always well done and thought provoking 👍

[@owleyes07]

I absolutely love this format. I need more ! 🦉♥

[@vitrioljones]

Worth mentioning that Berric heals and scars. So more alive than corpse. I imagine Cat's body was trying to do the same, but was too damaged by the water.

[@DavidLightbringer]

yeah it's weird, you know - it's actually Martin himself who said that Beric's body isn't alive and that his blood isn't flowing; but then how did his wounds scar? It might be an inconsistency

[@annacarollina7703]

​@DavidLightbringer maybe it's because berric was brought back again and again? So every time he goes to the other side daddy o'fire heals a bit of his wounds and sends him back

[@Airehcaz]

I am absolutely loving these videos, I think it’s a great idea to take content from the livestreams and go back to support the ideas in a more accessible video

[@Evrgreens11]

This is the type of content i love listening to from your channel David, great stuff as always!

[@Melleina]

Something that got me thinking (which is rare:) eith George retelling stories and reusing archetyes throughout the novel's history, it kind of reminds me how it parallels the reality of how humans tend to repeat the same choices and mistakes all the time. By the time the last book comes (I'm betting early 22nd century,) i want to see the characters of this fictional world to make different choices. Better choices. Which then leads to the idea that humans kept choosing fire and light which perpetuates the crappy cycle, maybe the "right choice" is ice.

[@michaeltavizon8333]

Love when you reference the other longer video series in the videos when you make a point-reminds me, “oh yeah, let me listen to that again” 😂

[@DavidLightbringer]

marketing department: **smiles**

[@greatstationsyt]

In hermetic alchemical traditions, to create the magnum opus, the philosopher’s stone which can grant eternal life and transmute substances, there are four phases. You’ve got the destruction and putrefaction, which is the nigredo or black phase. You’ve got the purification, which is the albedo or white phase. And you’ve got the rebirth, the dawn, which is the citrinitas or yellow phase. All that culminates in the rubedo, the red phase which is the finished work. A thought I had since you were talking about alchemy and all those colors being shown over and over in characters and scenes. Gotta love when GRRM takes some classic esotericism and makes it somehow even more psychedelic haha.

[@andrewbahlman7768]

Love the recaps my man keep ‘em coming! Praise Garth!!

[@johnnysmall]

man, i know i already said this on the last video but the camera is lookin so nice and crisp. Good lighting on your face too. lookin CLEAN AF

[@DavidLightbringer]

No I’d really appreciate that feedback thank you

[@undead8393]

Thanks for these last couple videos, I like your theories and whatnot far more than the readalongs.

[@andycropp7114]

Love the more streamlined format of this video. I can rarely find three hours A week to listen to a Livestream.

[@debragrogan6235]

I appreciate these shorter videos. The 3 hr marathons keep me up waaaaay too late!

[@costrodrock]

I've been doing a readthrough of the series and currently going through SoS, it's truly amazing to apply this type of exercise with all the other themes and characters in ASOIAF!

[@shelleyj3704]

So cool! I love the word symbolism (how long did it take me to say, "ohhh Ghooost", I get it"). I enjoyed the Asha/Osha allusions - I always wondered why those two names were so similar. Thanks for a great vid. The clean-shaven look is very nice, says a mom-figure.

[@nickycha8428]

LML has the best ASOIF theories. Great Empire of the Dawn is my favorite!

[@lordofthehouseofstormcrows8615]

Excellent analysis as always! Keep bringing the light bruddah!

[@BeBe-zq1dt]

I'd like it to be Cat/Stoneheart that ressurects Jon as penance for the way she treated him in life. I do think Mel will be the one though. I know GRRM won't disappoint even if it doesn't turn out the way I personally want it to though 😬 great stuff as always LML

[@J..P..]

Stoneheart is an undead murderous corpse motivated solely by revenge. Her character arc and the thematic purpose of her has absolutely nothing to do with Jon, or any sort of reconciliation in any way. The idea that she will put aside her bloodlust, travel 6 months in the dead of winter to castle black and reconcile herself to Jon for literally no reason is silly. Besides, Jon won't be "dead" for that long and the whole point of the prologue chapter is to show us that Jon is currently in Ghost. It will be "the old gods" which bring him back, not stoneheart.

[@BeBe-zq1dt]

@@J..P.. feel better?

[@seanslight1074]

@@J..P.. I think I saw somewhere the prologue was meant to relate to Jeyne Westerling in the Riverlands, probably gonna be someone travelling with her and Sybell Spicer in what I presume will be a Lannister/ Frey escort through the Riverlands before they get intercepted by the BWB and a certain vengeful Cat with a Stoneheart if I had to guess what the contents of said chapter will be, likely something regarding a pregnancy in spite of all the moon tea Sybell was giving Jeyne or something relating to Robb's will is getting revealed if I had to guess as well, if something like that does happen my money is on the latter personally.

[@BeBe-zq1dt]

@@seanslight1074 i think they are setting up more she-wolves of winterfell 😁

[@Sienisota]

I think Melisandre is going to try to resurrect or heal an injured Stannis. She will add Jon's corpse, because he was blood of a king Robb. She is so sure Stannis is the one, I don't think she will try to resurrect Jon. She will try it on Stannis, thinking he will rise. But Ghost or/and Cat will jump in and redirect the magic on Jon instead. GRRM has said people do magic and magic rituals by accident in this universe. Melisandre is too proud to believe she has been wrong about Stannis, unless she sees magic directly resurrect Jon.

[@motivatedt9926]

Nobody brings the heat like David

[@almab6875]

The pyre keeps reminding me of Sita, the feminine aspect/spouse of Rama Avatara who had to go through a pyre as a reassurance of her purity when rescued from Ravana's place in the Ramayana. It keeps pointing towards a transformation, or affirmation of true self (only mythical analysis here, because the practice is outmost patriarchy).

[@DavidLightbringer]

and I believe that story is similar to that of Sati, no? I did a video on the Indian origins of Dany, Drogon, and House Targaryen and that's what it seemed like to me, right down to the details of the story.

[@Traisas]

Hilarious opening! Nice editing

[@ahrager]

Thanks for the video, David. Early Happy Birthday. And I think Mel was kidnapped from Hardhome as a child.

[@THEMightyMonarch316]

Hell yeah to this whole video ! kickass to the John Brown shoutout. This symbolism is so fire it would make William T Sherman proud lol

[@DavidLightbringer]

i see what you did there

[@Airehcaz]

Nice video David! 👍

[@akiramado9198]

You know how the show gave us some wierd easter eggs? Remember mabey like the season 6 dvd box set had Jon on it looking like the night king. Ive always wondered why they chose to do that.

[@g_wylde]

I completely agree that Jon will be reborn in his funeral pyre in a way similar to how the dragons (and Dany herself) were reborn in Drogo's funeral pyre. However, I don't think Mel will do it on purpose, mostly because I don't think she realises how important Jon is just yet (Rhllor keeps giving her hints, but as usual Mel interprets them how she wants and she's not quite ready to see Jon as her Chosen One over Stannis just yet), and also because there was no deliberate 'kiss of life' or anything like that for Dany's pyre, the magic just happened kind of naturally when all the pieces were in the right place. I think Jon's ressurrection will mirror that, so his funeral will be just that, a funeral, but instead of his body burning to ashes it will just come out of the flames reanimated. There will certainly be other elements in place to make this a magical ritual (I for one think Monster is a more likely sacrifice than Ghost), but I don't think Mel will intend for this ritual to bring Jon back. If anything, she might be using Jon's body plus whatever other sacrifices to bring Stannis back to life or give him good luck depending on whether she believes the Pink Letter or not, but then Jon coming back will be an unexpected result of the magic. And THAT's when Mel will start clocking that Jon is far more important than she'd given him credit so far and might even be the real AA.

[@farahgiovanna]

please keep the 3 hour live streams! (gotta work, gonna check this on the rewatch)

[@DavidLightbringer]

oh yeah i’m gonna

[@akechijubeimitsuhide]

I wrote a fic once where Jon resurrects from his funeral pyre and the fire also shows visions of his parentage. It was from Bowen Marsh's POV (I had a dream from his POV and I just had to write it). I should probably rework it because my English 10+ years ago was nowhere near my current level.

[@almab6875]

And thanks for your videos!!!! All so insightful!!!! 🔥

[@praveenloganathan7495]

I think that Melissandre will have to sacrifice herself to bring back Jon Snow after Shireen. Hodor was necessary for Brandon Stark to become the Three Eyed Raven and Shireen is required to bring back and perhaps to heal Jon and sever his link with the dead she herself has to make the ultimate sacrifice. At some point Mel will learn the truth about Jon and came to see him as the hero they needed. I also believe that she will make sure that Jon goes to Dragonstone after retaking the North from Bolton as well. Also when Jon returns, he would be different in more ways than one.

[@deepstatethrombosis]

I wonder, when Bran fell & was "unconscious" & his dire wolf stood watch over his body, do you think that was the first time he warged? Left his body through the pain subconsciously & became his wolf until his body could heal enough for him to return? If the other Starks warg at their moments of death, & he thought he was dying, could that explain why he took so long to wake again?

[@joannecassell8825]

Love shorter clips cuz more devoted to one topic !! Also, you look great shaved !!!

[@Calebe_Sagaz]

Shireen will be burned to wake up the dragon, the new Jon Snow. Melisandre talks about stone dragons, probably a reference to scamagris and Shireen. She will be sacrificed. ''Just death can pay for life.''

[@nadiasouthiere7908]

Thank’s LML for the good work👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻Love your channel❣️🙋🏼‍♀️🇨🇦

[@HomieWanKenobiTV]

Hey David great video as always, just curious, I know this is a big ask but is there anyway you could possibly do a timeline video on the world of ice and fire. For people such as myself who mainly learn about this world through content creators such as yourselves it can get difficult to keep track of when events happen in relation to each other I.e the long night versus the Battle Of winter fell, just to make it easier to visual how long ago some of these events took place. If not it’s totally understandable because I can only imagine the amount of work that would take 😅

[@jerrymdza6500]

It would be great if you elaborate on Bran's role in all of this and his symbolisms

[@DavidLightbringer]

For sure, I need to find a chapter that is foreshadowing that

[@Ash.Crow.Goddess]

I'm just going to keep praying you will do deep dives on movies to break down the symbolism, and start with The Shining. Praise Garth and R'Hllor. Or Dick Hollorann, you know, Whichever. (I have a good knack for breaking down Grrm's character names. If you can Crack the code on a name, sometimes, you can figure out a ton, just from that.)

[@murp0443]

Great stuff

[@b0baf00t8]

With all this snow we've been getting, I'm about to burn myself in a pyre.

[@Henbot]

That cartoon cleo was so adorable

[@DavidLightbringer]

that's the squisher emoji Cleo!

[@leann9261]

I love all the yin and yang symbolism going on with Jon and Dany

[@careybrooks3072]

As a nerd with an English masters, believe me when I say you have the chops to be a literary instructor/professor

[@DavidLightbringer]

thank you Carey!

[@stevenclayton4624]

Like most everyone else, I'm sure, I don't enjoy hearing talk that Ghost is going to be sacrificed, even for Lord Snow.

[@Varatil]

JB shoutout in the first 3 mins = Instant Like

[@wrmorris2]

very interested to hear this

[@doomforecast]

Jon Snow's death is the end of the winter's bastard arc of Jon's life, and his resurrection the beggining of the winter-dragon arc.

[@juniorbaal]

I love u David Thank u for another amazing video

[@AshtheGreenMan]

Garth is good. Thank you David

[@user-ln7jw2qn6h]

"Clean Shave" Dave

[@ToucanBinks]

Got you with the like and comment bro

[@lilglukeymonstar]

Don't forget the boat young Griff and Tyrion travel on, the Shy Maid! How does this fit in!?

[@DavidLightbringer]

The moon floats atop her mast. Together they make a weirwood symbol. Then they float down the river of time and do a loop!

[@bobmcbob9856]

I think John’s pyre may be on the heart tree in the Winterfell godswood

[@cledosliop4175]

Your theory made me expect book six even more 😂!!

[@gmen1267]

Jon Snow's body lies moldering in the grave lol

[@Poetrixx]

Just as work ended, thanks from Europe

[@hunterolson1162]

Nice !! Who is he !! 2 videos in one week !

[@DavidLightbringer]

🤣

[@ImreallyIzzy]

🔥 🔥 🔥

[@ryasa777]

Been looking forward to this since the comment on stream 😂

[@magnusnilsson1962]

Appeasing the Algorythm.

[@fuzzyhair321]

I wonder if jons hair will change to ash white. Wouldnt that be interesting to see as the waking dragon. Jons hair changes much like goku haha

[@Mink-yu8nu]

Hold me closer fiery dancer.

[@Poetrixx]

OI MISTAH teespring link is ded, give full link in description pls

[@DavidLightbringer]

thank you for that heads up

[@magnushood3896]

First time I watched thrones I thought the lord of Bones was a religious figure and a title but it’s just a guy who likes bones, which is somehow a more interesting character.

[@DavidLightbringer]

Well he certainly is in terms of symbolism, and that’s why you picked up that vibe

[@gogozeppeli9267]

Do you read other fantasy books? Wheel of time, robin Hobb's realm of the elderlings, earthsea wizard etc... Or do you just read a song of ice and fire?

[@JJJJJVVVVVLLLLL]

bringin it

[@laurelsilberman5705]

The French refer to an orgasm as “the little death”🤨connection with Melisandre? 😂😂😂

[@chipsandip]

Dope!

[@EtInYoutubeCommentsEgo]

bro patreon and teespring links be dead, resurrect the links!

[@DavidLightbringer]

thank you

[@EtInYoutubeCommentsEgo]

@@DavidLightbringer thank you for your work

[@whatsinaname23]

I once found a nest of baby birds, blown out of a tree. The nest had fell at least 20 ft. 2 bodies laid cold and dead pounded by the rain and wind outside the nest. Inside the nest were two more chicks. One was dead for sure. I gave them both a shake. The last one seemed to resist the shake faintly, barely noticeable slow fall of the head. Hypothermia death. I felt compelled to save it. Something told me I must. I dried the bird under a hand dryer carefully quite far from main heat. Stuck what could have been a dead bird to my chest between my breasts. Kind of forgot it was there as I was working. I had on a heavy coat. Suddenly I felt it move about a half hour later. I know realized I had a live bird that I was now responsible for. It was scrambling and clawing and hungry. Yes putting a basically dead bird down my shirt super weird, but I felt there was purpose and that I must save. There was a reason i found this bird. I wonder if melisandre will feel similar and resurrect jon. She will get a sign and strongly feel compelled. Perhaps something will trigger her vision of all she could see was snow, make it clear. Stannis was just a path leading to jon. Oh and that baby bird. It lived and grew up to be a total badass. One of the best most magical creatures I have ever met.

[@benharris5890]

Tf

[@JoeyWhisperz]

Also I am distantly related to that Jerome Brown dude I remember my mom and gma talking about it when I was a kid (my mom's maiden name was Brown). I used it for social studies or whatever when I was a kid in elementary and middle school because he was a civil war general dude or whatever that stopped slavery I remember that's crazy coincidence my

[@DavidLightbringer]

more of a straight freedom fighter then a general but yeah he set it off

[@neuralmute]

That's some interesting family history. Of course, most families have some interesting history if you know where to look. My great-great-grandfather fought in Abraham Lincoln's own regiment, under his direct command. When my grandfather was a kid, he'd play dress up in his grandfather's old uniform, and play with his sword! Both are in a museum now. (The uniform and sword, not the grandfathers! 🤣)

[@JoeyWhisperz]

Jerome Brown I was wrong he was abolitionist civil war general too though.

[@JoeyWhisperz]

@@DavidLightbringer i got it wrong it was: JEROME Brown. He was an Abolitionist Union Civil War General. Sry I had the wrong Brown-named Abolitionist. Lol

[@tobiasash9281]

JOHN BROWN! 💪💪🫡

[@10bunks12]

Do you think resurrecting Jon is Melisandre’s ultimate purpose and she will die after giving Jon the Kiss of fire / life?

[@DavidLightbringer]

very possibly so

[@DavidLightbringer]

check the last Melisandre’s secrets video though for weirder theories hahaha

[@dawnmcd2200]

Are we certain it will be Melisandre who resurrects him? Why not Dany? “Three fires your must light… one for life, one for death, and one to love.” Notice the preposition change with “ TO love”

[@DavidLightbringer]

Dany is in the middle of the Dothraki Sea. How do long do you think Jon can be dead for? she’s months away from Westeros

[@DavidLightbringer]

that would be dope if she was involved remotely through magic or something

[@justmhr7598]

Probably tho, Jons Pyre needs living blood to burn. Mirri Maaz Duur

[@houseadams4841]

Jon’s not even dead…. All hail Order of the Greenhand !!

[@justmhr7598]

I dont know, i like shireen pyre too

[@JoeyWhisperz]

Is there a possibility that maybe he and tormund giantsbane got glamored and he's not dead? Ghost is usually around him and he wanted a horn and I know the ruckus was going on the stop the noise but for some reason he wanted a horn never ever just thinks about blowing the horn like seems like grrm wanted to specify that & after torman read that he was trying to save his boy Mance. I mean I know someone had to have thought of this already but it just came to my head

[@DavidLightbringer]

I mean I don’t think so personally, because we were in John’s point of view when he died

[@JoeyWhisperz]

@@DavidLightbringer yeah ur right "stick em with the pointy end" all he felt was the cold w grrm said something in a magazine interview " you think he's dead do you? " That's why and to

[@billberndtson]

Gotta say, you look great shaved! 🙂

[@worldtreegardens]

YGGDRASIL hails Garth !!!!

[@rajshreesinghrajshree1452]

Oooh nice

[@shaycase1834]

Nice 😊

[@celly8713]

shaveid lightbringer

[@ACPritchard]

Who would win: Max level Mel with rare gear Or Base human torch ? 😇

[@DavidLightbringer]

human torch prolly

[@OneAngryDragon]

I wonder what the future is now for House Targaryen, I mean Jon already technically died already, even though he is alive now...Can he have kids? lol If not should he and Dany live forever in some form? Maybe she'll come back and have some conflict with him that will lead to a new Night King...or Queen

[@DavidLightbringer]

Yeah I don’t think they’re gonna have kids, some weird magical destiny makes more sense in my opinion

[@OneAngryDragon]

@@DavidLightbringer I feel like there will be this Children of the Forest Vs. Targaryens plot, they could do so much with the story

[@exilhannabal]

23:28 see what's crazy is, a minute or two ago, the first time you said "A Shy Maiden" I made a silly little joke to myself like "Haha don't you mean 'An Asshai Maiden" then told myself not to waste a comment on such a lame joke My jaw dropped a little, ngl 😂