Jonathan Blow's Version of Doom Eternal

[@SigSelect]

Say what you want his alternative intro was really good.

[@malditamente6713]

"You can't have strafe combat in closed spaces" excuse me, wtf?? that's literally what the og doom and quake were

[@___Hermitage]

I feel like the story of Doom 2016 was a masterclass, tasteful, understated, just the right amount of tongue-in-cheek. Doom Eternal on the other hand is completely over the top, with even these absurd arcade elements like the "1up" being added. It just doesn't fit with the tone in my opinion, and unlike Doom 2016, the gameplay and encounters in Eternal are constantly funneling you into this one single playstyle of mindless aggression. It gets repetitive and it isn't that fun. I enjoyed 2016 a lot more.

[@fennecbesixdouze1794]

In Doom 2016 you literally collected bobbleheads.

[@BSPNode]

@@fennecbesixdouze1794yes, but that wasn’t a necessary part of the gameplay. If you didn’t care about the collectibles, you could go through the entire game without getting a single one.

[@the_primal_instinct]

I know many people who didn't buy Doom Eternal because they didn't like what id Software did with it. I think the point "you can't criticize the game you didn't play" is invalid. In fact it is very important to understand why many people didn't want to play it, their reasons for it.

[@henrykkaufman1488]

I liked Doom 2016 more in gameplay and in visual design. Doom Eternal has diffirent pace and diffirent mood. I can boil this down to "Doom Eternal is more like an arcade game than Doom 2016". It is intended, you can tell it from the inteviews with the designers. But I liked D2016 more and I think that the points that John is making are either valid or taste-dependent.

[@stranger0-00]

Pretty much. A game is made up of a ton of elements, a lot of which can be gauged independent of gameplay that don't need you to actively play to experience them. There are also facets of gameplay in regards to tuning, the loop, and integration of systems that can be assessed in relation to personal taste without engaging directly if you see enough of it. Can you give a wholesale, all-encompassing, detailed critique without having played it? No, but you can definitely find a lot of things that you don't like about it that make it an undesirable game to indulge in based on your interests/standards, a number of which even good moment-to-moment gun-play or movement wouldn't necessarily make up for.

[@elbowjuice2627]

Yeah I always thought that was bs and could be disproven by just saying “it looks bad. Why bother?” Also, I thought Doom Eternal was amazing.

[@Optimus6128]

I didn't bother with the graphics of Doom 2016 or 2020, they both look good enough to me. But as someone who still plays too much classic Doom and other oldschool FPS, those still feel much more fun than modern Doom or modern Wolfenstein to me. The way the player moves, the way you can easily dispose hordes of simple enemies (and not interrupted by glory kills), the non linear map design and secrets/easter eggs. Most people got too enthusiastic of the modern Doom (and I did played Doom 2016 with over 60hours, still not played Eternal) like it's the blast from the past, but sorry I didn't feel this and I don't feel the same about modern franchises milked, I rather play Dusk or some other indie oldschool FPS that does it right.

[@darak2]

Doom 2016 was a breath of fresh air in the AAA space, but it was not as good as the originals. The original Doom had extraordinary flow where you would be in control of the map due to excellent player movement, amazing enemy design (enemies complemented each other in a way that made you fight the horde itself instead of groups of individual enemies like in any modern FPS) and lots of player freedom: every situation had many valid approaches regarding your positioning, acquiring aggro, weapons choice, etc, and more often than not there were multiple good choices. As a result, playing the original Doom is making a series of interesting, split-second decisions. Nowadays, designers always want to show you their 'one true way' and everything else is made sub-optimal by design (this is excruciating in Eternal, where enemies have 'weak points', resources are scarce only to force you to use the several resupplying moves constantly, and they continuously patch out any new strategies speedrunners and players may find, for example). Original Doom >> Indie revivals >>>>>>>> Doom 2016 >> Doom Eternal.

[@unchartouille1208]

I completely agree. Doom 2016 has nothing to do with the old dooms. Even the tone, it was gore and frightening, now it's just funny and dark. Where is the backtracing ? Where are the secrets ? Where are the ammunitions ? Why new dooms have to be a succession of arenas ? The new dooms look like Bioshock infinite. No need to memorise the place or anything, just kill the monsters sraight ahead. The old Doom were not "no brain".

[@Bat-Georgi]

>the way you can easily dispose hordes of simple enemies And that right there is the issue. Most of you purists want the game to lay down before you. And let's not get it twisted. OG Doom is not hard. Plutonia is, and most people don't like it. 2016 also has a lot of balancing issues which also make it so that the game keels over and dies. I like it for what it is, but Eternal was exactly what I wanted. An actual, combat focused challenging experience, that doesn't wallow in it's predecessor but instead does it's own thing using all the modern bells and whistles. >The way the player moves Aaa yes, all 2 dimensions of the movement. Again, feel free to enjoy it but I'd take the double jumping verticality of 2016 and especially Eternal over holding down shift so I can SR50 my way through a level. Reading all the comments and listening to Blow, I can't help but think, that yall are just way too old for this shit.

[@SpazeUnofficials]

dusk

[@SpazeUnofficials]

and true that classic doom plays better, not the same game by far

[@h0gheadS]

Odd that Jon's complaining mostly about visual and story elements. The game is primarily about the combat mechanics.

[@MalikenGD]

And Jon typically says he doesn't like story in games and thus he doesn't like story in his own games.

[@stranger0-00]

Jon's front-facing impressions were of the presentation/narrative elements, yes. Those seem to be the aspects that were the most jarring/egregious to him. It isn't odd to me because of his critical views/standards on narrative in games as well as the particularity of his interest in technology making the lack of technical novelty, progress, and instances of visual peculiarities all the more apparent. He's made mention that he believes that the individual facets that come together to comprise the whole experience that is a game have influences on the perceived quality of one another. That alongside what we know are his hang-ups with games makes it seem pretty consistent to expect that he doesn't think the game looks good despite his limited commentary on the gameplay (level-design/references). The back and forth of the comparisons also make it seem like the gameplay was a known quantity/par for the course, or that it wasn't very notable/assesable relative to the other observations within the span of time he invested in watching it. By the end, (and even at the beginning) he even acknowledges for clarity that he hasn't played it and that he might actually like it if he did, but that he just isn't interested, which is likely a result of his initial impressions.

[@gemigames154]

Doom Eternal needs to be played before a full critique can be made. The game is almost entirely about the gameplay but more specifically the combat. Valid comments, some I agree with but you have to experience the gameplay to understand what they were going for.

[@nanthilrodriguez]

The point was jump in and start shooting. The "Punch the terminal" message is doing away with all time-wasting, narrative garbage when the players just want a game to jump in and shoot.

[@todesziege]

But they didn't commit to that even in 2016.

[@corpusc]

cool. him reading my comment at the end :)

[@tathtath]

For me doom ethernal was downgrade from 2016. Levels looked amazing, mechs in the background, etc. But it was too arcade, maruders broke the killing flow, music was remix of 2016, and you had to read the lore! in 2020!

[@KANJICODER]

Marauders are annoying as fuck. But I always think of the annoying hard parts as the parts of the game that make you appreciate the non-annoying parts more. Like when you eat food after having fasted all day.

[@MasterSamus]

What game is he playing in this stream?

[@BlowFan]

Half-Life: Alyx

[@amhm10]

I kinda agree with him

[@Piexus_]

Opinions are opinions. But just to give mine. Most of these things feel irrelevant when you're playing Eternal (too long to detail in a comment why) / But basically it seems to me that some people played Doom 2016 and enjoyed the "story" and the believable atmosphere. (A human in human like places) / While others like me, really enjoyed the Combat and Self Aware tone, and also "Gaminess" of it; in the sense of a Game that's not scared of being a game. Eternal really leaned into arcady, self aware, absurd; and I loved for it. It's euphoric to play, but I understand some people want a more beliavable: Story, Enviroment ecc. ALSO LOVE THE PINATAS

[@KANJICODER]

Doom 2016 & Doom Eternal are the only video games I play these days. I don't play it for the story. Fuck story. I feel like they just threw in a story because they were too scared they wouldn't get modern game players to play it without a good story. My only complaint : The Imps are a lot less frustrating in Doom Eternal because the dash mechanic makes it impossible for them to throw "leading shots" where they throw the fireball not where you are , but to where you are about to be.

[@SaidMetiche-qy9hb]

Yeah idk about this, I wish I could play DOOM Eternal just because of the more story, the impressive graphics in Heaven/Hell, etc... But at the same time I wish there were games that were closer to reality, rather than these huge fantasy unrealistic things.

[@AdobadoFantastico]

there.....are?

[@SaidMetiche-qy9hb]

I mean game that is actually relevant to everyday life, that has a strong purpose

[@Noscopenoproblem]

The gameplay is the primary reason to play something like Doom, not the story or graphics(other than it being a *video* game). Based on this comment and your following comment about wanting games "actually relevant to everyday life, that has a strong purpose", I'd say it's very fair to assume that your interest in video games as a medium exclude the things that make the medium unique from others. Why exactly would you want a game "Actually relevant to everyday life, that has a strong purpose"? Why exactly would you want a video game of all things to contain that kind of relevancy? Are you talking about pop culture, or are you talking wanting to talk about video games to people who think they're too "unartistic" to bother with?

[@SaidMetiche-qy9hb]

@@Noscopenoproblem Many games are simply not unique enough or interesting enough for me to play. And I've realized that is because they add nothing to my life. I still rather play older classics. Most games have no conviction about their meaning, or if they do it is diluted or plainly wrong.

[@SaidMetiche-qy9hb]

@@Noscopenoproblem I really don't like speaking about this on KZbin, maybe I should delete this comment

[@nexovec]

well, the game is so unique from both design and technical perspective that I have absolutely no idea what to think about it

[@nexovec]

I have no idea why I thought doom was technically impressive. Maybe I was relating that to the previous doom versions, which is obviously ridiculous. I still think the design is unique though.

[@BD-cv3wu]

I mean, it wasn't Id that was good at engine design it was John Carmack (and Michael Abrash) and he lost enthusiasm for games and went VR instead. They lost a lot when they lost each original member for what they had to offer, especially Mr. Hall despite all his issues getting things to work before Doom.

[@pallenda]

I think Blow's vision for Doom sounds a bit like Poul Verhoeven. I like it. 😃 Edit: hehe he then mention s RoboCop. 😄😄😄

[@fennecbesixdouze1794]

First few minutes are head-in-palms embarrassing. Dude. If you watch people on Twitch, they are going to turn the graphics settings down to zero to get better frame-rates. Watching a game on Twitch is often not representative of the graphics. Sure some channels might spend a lot on a big rig and crank up the settings, but most don't, especially on a less popular game like Doom Eternal.

[@MemoryDealer]

Disagree. The environment art in Doom Eternal blew me away. Not all of it, but most of it.

[@StickNik]

Loved Urdak completely.

[@niking987]

This just sounds like Fullmetal Alchemist with extra steps

[@u9vata]

I really think "doom on earth" is a big missed opportunity for id. Eternal does not look a bad game, but for me its nearly the same as the previous.

[@dciug]

Does he like Alyx?

[@corpusc]

nope. you can watch him play thru the whole thing on his twitch channel "Videos" tab

[@corpusc]

TLDR: it was %98 complaints and trashing it

[@quaker5712]

I agree the levels should've been more Earth based "like" the original but the Mario stuff is great as it helps you get better at the movement so you can take that into combat sections. The game should of had smaller levels and more of them too imo.

[@DanDanOreo]

Don't know how to appreciate graphics professionally, but I like both Eternal's artstyle and graphics more thatn 2016.

[@franciscofarias6385]

The truth is that nowadays extreme graphical fidelity only really matters for games that have a strong humanistic, naturalistic element (Naughty Dog or RDR2 for instance). For game-y games it's all a matter of supporting the art style.

[@kentatakao6863]

100% agree

[@BD-cv3wu]

Your design seems very much like Tom Hall's. I really don't think we need another Doom 3 invasion sequence. It's timeless on its own. To watch another demonic invasion is pretty boring after that no matter the graphics. I think you really need to play Doom Eternal. Having cramped quarters is redundant to what Doom 3 did. We need more open areas like in the original Doom and Doom 2 and Final Doom levels. I think you have a very different take on demons, Hell and Doom in general. Your game sounds like an action game akin to Call of Duty or a modern Halo game, but NOT a Doom game. Yes, Doom 3 is still a Doom game. You can advance into the fray at any point in time like in the originals.

[@stefanmihaila]

"Story in a game is like story in a porn movie..."

[@BD-cv3wu]

Precisely.

[@baki9191]

Its just too arcadey

[@elbowjuice2627]

Agree to disagree

[@zackwumpus9364]

This is the type of review i hate. Focusing on every graphical and little detail. we have been spoiled way to much by good games. Sometimes just a fun, adventure, with fine graphics is enough. this is the case with doom eternal. No need for a good story, you dont have to read the codex, just have fun with the mechanics.

[@senkrouf]

but you are talking about Id software, its not an indie game. They have a lot of money and they just become lazy.

[@Aggnog]

The game definitely isn't perfect, but he doesn't really understand the sense of humour they went for with many things. I still think it's worth playing just for the experience which is really good.

[@dimarichmain]

Too bad.

[@nateoriol320]

You are wrong sir! Still love the witness :)

[@oscarsalesgirl296]

Doom Eternal was lightning in a bottle. -First off, it was a hilarious critique of the satanic corporations that are ruining the world right now with LGBT and etc. -The gameplay was extremely fresh. It was essentially a Guitar Hero rhythm game disguised as a FPS. -The Soundtrack was a Masterpiece

[@xvidcap]

Don't know why Doom Eternal got so many good reviews. It's an awful game. I stopped playing it about 5 hours into the game. Boring and bland, insanely repetitive, tedious jump sequences.

[@NukeCloudstalker]

I found the combat entertaining enough to execute at high difficulty, that I really didn't think much of the details Blow talked about. I don't play DOOM for the story, although I wish it was better. I don't play DOOM for realism, although it would be nice if it was more believable (cultists referring to themselves as cultists and so on). Graphics would be great too - but I didn't find it an eyesore, good enough to have me enjoy the game, but maybe could be better. I don't know why people call it "awful" exactly. It's not very deep, it's not very reflective, it's just very viscerally engaging, the music especially (I liked soundtracks of both games, fit the themes well). It's a power fantasy and for that it's nice.

[@lm1338]

but the monsters look so cool

[@michelecalabro4344]

He's wrong

[@Chamavii]

doom eternal was so bad....but hes not even gonna try it? I think hes scared that its an infinitely better game than his lmao