Jonathan Blow talks about his new upcoming game

Jonathan Blow, the game designer of The Witness and Braid, talks about his upcoming Sokoban style puzzle game.
Tip me: ko-fi.com/blowfan
Jon's Twitch: / j_blow

[@gordonfreeman-g5w]

There are only a few game devs who I trust to make a good and meaningful game every time and Jonathan Blow is one of them.

[@BlowFan]

Definitely!

[@defjam641]

He's directed 2 games, that's not a super strong record?

[@chao3948]

@@defjam641 I have only played the witness so far and considering that I think that game is a timeless masterpiece and the best video game ever created up to this point, yes, I do believe that's a super fucking strong record. Also wtf did you just make that comment 50 minutes ago? lmao what a coincidence am i right?

[@gordonfreeman-g5w]

@@defjam641quality vs quantity

[@ddd-op5wy]

@@chao3948 Man play a second game. You can't compare 500 tablet-tier puzzles with actual true innovative masterpieces with no equal like Rain World and Outer Wilds. The Witness is not that good.

[@gemigames154]

Up to 8 hour levels! Jesus John, please have mercy.

[@MultiRecordMusicInc]

Really excited for this game. Thanks for the video!

[@educate9946]

Yeah but the game won't have memory safety as it is not written in Rust so I'm not sure if *everyone* will appreciate it.

[@nerderror]

No GC either. Have no idea who will buy this game for real

[@brandonwinston]

😂

[@nates9778]

The game also needs good memory protocol if it's going to make it in the industry. Basically I only want my memory if it's been planted and harvested from the memory garden and if the memory is blessed and reversed-gardened at runtime, before being sold at the farmers market. Otherwise you're just going to get soil as memory and soiled memory is bad, there's things things that mitigate that like fertilizer and composting, but you generally wana stay away from that, only accept fresh memory, stored in optimal conditions with no preseverstives.

[@Maraus92]

I lol'd so hard xD

This is so niche comment in a niche community so well written!

[@stigstew21]

the witness is my favorite puzzle game ever and I am so happy to see him creating something else. cant wait to play. P.S. if he decides to make a sequel to the Witness I would be overjoyed

[@tripplejaz]

I will never play this game but I love JBlow and am hoping this game to be a commercial success and a testament to the man for writing his own language, building an engine and a game with the engine.

There. Are. 750. Levels. Right. Now. Oh. My. God.

[@blowfantoo]

JB recently said the game was 400 hours long.

[@CaptTerrific]

"case Guy" "case Monster" - this is my kind of naming convention!

[@encryptor6710]

Philosophy of game design question: Can a game be too big that it loses its luster over time. I think people want at least that understanding of knowing it will end or that they can accomplish completing the game. But knowing that this game has almost 1000 levels just seems like its too big and no one will ever be able to beat it and that already kills the mood.

[@BlowFan]

I think it's fine as long as new ideas get constantly introduced, and I'm not just talking about new mechanics. Ideally a game should be as big as necessary to explore its design space and not bigger. A puzzle game with almost 1000 levels that don't get repetitive or arbitrary is unprecedented. There's going to be some kind of connective tissue as well that connects all the puzzles into a meaningful whole. Jon wouldn't be satisfied with a collection of disconnected puzzles even if they were good. Knowing Jonathan Blow's design skills and high standards, I think the game's going to be something special. I believe this about all of his future games though. Also, I don't think most people finish (puzzle) games even if they're short. People still seem to enjoy big open world games with a lot of time wasting collectibles and quests too? :D

[@encryptor6710]

@@BlowFan I really enjoyed The Witness but it just got too overwhelming and repetitive regardless of new "languages" being introduced. I never finished it because it started becoming drudgery. Im afraid with a game with 1000 levels it will become just like that. No end goal in sight. Great I have finished 673 puzzles so far. Now just 400 some odd more to go. That doesnt sound that enticing.

[@BlowFan]

​@@encryptor6710 That is fine. People have different experiences with things. I agree that normally a puzzle game with almost 1000 levels wouldn't sound very promising but I'm trusting Jonathan Blow's design skills to make it interesting I guess. Maybe you can skip a lot of levels and still complete the game? It really sounds like something you'd have to be crazy or *very* ambitious to attempt to make. It's very interesting to have a person like Jon in the video game industry I think. I will most likely enjoy spending as many hours as it takes in his next game anyhow. :)

[@BlowFan]

​@@encryptor6710 I also think you shouldn't force yourself to finish games that start to feel like a waste of time. If the game was worth your time until that point, you got some value out of it. You don't play games just to finish them, right? I have actually finished a few games just to finish them and regretted it every time. It's a hollow accomplishment if you don't really care about the game anymore.

[@quatricise]

I love that one of his entity types is just called "Guy". He doesn't fuck around xd

I hope there will be some alternative of "environmental puzzles" from The Witness. I am looking forward to my reaction of discovery :)

[@wisnoskij]

I am really confused about what this game is going to be. I cannot really grasp how a puzzle might take 20 minutes of acatual rote solving and still be a good puzzle, complexity ramps up super fast with the number of things you must keep track of and the time it takes. I think this is a universal, and yet in the witness where every puzzle is like 10 seconds long and takes like at maximum of less than 100 choices to solve, their are still hard puzzles. Honestly, if I had heard Blow say bigger, harder, longer, more ideas I would of thought like 60 second puzzles with like maybe 1000 choices becaue anyhting past that should be impossible by my understanding of puzzles. More excited than ever for a release

[@encryptor6710]

This game seems like a really advanced Adventures of Lolo from Nintendo?

[@Andres-is3lj]

and this is the small one from the upcoming games?

[@shitheadjohnson2797]

physics engine projection is the coolest idea.

[@danielreichelt7292]

Instant buy for me.

[@BlowFan]

Same.

[@blowfantoo]

Same too.

[@tutucox]

same

[@miserablepile]

Bro's inner Peter Molyneux is showing

[@TWlaz]

The thing is that Blow has a track record of following through on his promises. You can love or hate the results but he does follow through on his stated ambitions.

[@h0gheadS]

Can't wait to play it in 2025!

[@johanrg70]

You are an optimist, I like that.

[@makotoikari4854]

Starting to feel like 2027.

[@nongmotrash]

has he said whether this will be an "artsy" kind of game with a sort of philosophy like the witness, or just pure puzzles?

[@TimmacTR]

Art is always about Philosophy, because Art is about Truth

@@TimmacTR Damn, it sounds tasty!

[@TimmacTR]

@ If it's not about Truth, it has a name too, it's called: Propaganda

[@nickwilson3499]

@@TimmacTR that’s not true. Something can be propaganda even if it (coincidentally) tells the truth. Propaganda is just a way of convincing people of something without anything to back it up

[@TimmacTR]

@@nickwilson3499 Propaganda is literally distorting the truth. If you say some true things with false things to get to a political goal that is called propaganda and it's the opposite of the truth

[@Heyoka86]

I think The Witness is the most profound game ever made.

[@youtubeceoruinedyoutube]

It’s literally just 2D puzzles set in a pretty 3D environment. The entirety of the mechanics is 2D puzzles. The game is good and challenging but cmon now. I think profoundness requires some real interaction with the game world and a real story.

[@kiwec]

@@youtubeceoruinedyoutube bruh

[@Lecarottin]

@@youtubeceoruinedyoutube There is real interaction with thé game world, using the same skills you learn playing the puzzles. Also there is a « story ». It’s just not a linear false cinematic hollywoodian story.

[@PatchyE]

@@youtubeceoruinedyoutube The Witness is beyond mere gameplay and story. In my book it 100% deserves to be called the most profound game ever made. People who get it will get it, people who don't will most likely never.

[@educate9946]

@@youtubeceoruinedyoutube I don't know if The Witness is the most profound, but for what it is worth story is really not so important I feel like. Games like The Witness and Journey touched me more than whatever story-driven game. Kinda like in novels where celebrated works may have very little actual story.

[@JrIcify]

I saw him in the credits for Baba is You as a tester so I wonder if the game will be anything like that

[@barterjke]

it scares me a little. I will buy game for sure, but i finished all puzzles in braid by myself except one, in witness I skipped probably one of a third, because some puzzles are hidden, some puzzles can't be solved at certain step, and some are too rigged or difficult (I'm sorry, musical section, it's just too much). And I definitely liked Braid more. Braid was an experience, witness was a puzzle game.

[@immanuelkouldnt7601]

I can't wait for this game!!

[@0525ohhwell]

So, if it's "like the witness" the first 400 levels or so should be pretty good and the last 600 just tedious permutations on the first 400?

[@franciscofarias6385]

You mean environmental puzzles? Because I never felt that any panel puzzle was redundant (switches notwithstanding)

[@justMe635033]

What size did he meant when he said "There is a map that's like 250 squares across"? What one square stands for?

[@BlowFan]

It's a Sokoban style puzzle game where you move one square at a time.

[@gmdFrame]

Is it still in creation?

[@ar_xiv]

Turbo chips challenge insano mode

[@LittleWeevil]

Is this game going to be on ps4?

[@Muguetsu]

Is he talking about the sudoku game or the other game?

[@BlowFan]

He's talking about the sokoban game.

[@alexmartinez6619]

Entonces sí va a sacar un nuevo juego? Igual o parecido a The Witness?

[@javago-o]

Es el que se ve al principio, es tipo Sokoban

[@flamendless]

And people still say that jon has nothing to prove and back up his claims

[@leokrukowski8940]

sounds like Legend of Mana

[@nexovec]

Last week John got triggered by me asking about an unfinished animation. I literally thought I don't understand the animation, because it's a debugging feature or something. He had a fit. It felt weird.

[@zdenekgromnica]

From your point of view, you asked one question, but Jon gets these kinds of questions hundreds of times per stream. It gets really annoying.

[@gemigames154]

@HalibetLector I love John but yeah that tends to happen when you sniff your own farts from time to time XD

[@XeenimChoorch-nx8wx]

@nexovec the guy is an insufferable A-hole, unfortunately. I wish it were otherwise because I agree with so many of his views.

[@Core-Poration]

When I saw "Sokoban style puzzle game" I was thinking that Baba Is You would have been exactly the kind of game Jonathan Blow might have done, but the more he talk about his game, the more it looks like Baba Is You, but even more powerful haha

[@El_Andru]

Man, I went into Baba like "pff stupid game, Im just gonna break all the rules and get easy dopamine wins" I ended up quitting for a while. I can't fathom that but more.

[@franciscofarias6385]

Is this game gonna be about "programming rules" or something in this direction? I was under the impression it wouldn't be that different from sokoban

[@Core-Poration]

@@franciscofarias6385 I don't think the rules will be similar to baba is you, I was talking about how he says there will be a ton of levels and different ideas, just reminded me of baba is you

[@benmitchinson9831]

💙

[@jiaquwu3986]

❤

[@JugglingForCake]

❤️

[@wikkidize]

i hope this game wont be shit

[@vborovikov]

Tetris has over 9000 levels...

[@Honken]

Tetris literally has one level.

[@puncherinokripperino2500]

@@Honken that's not true, in handheld tetris there are tons of modes which can be cosidered different levels, for example the mod with garbage already on the level or the mod when whole field rotates one square to the side after each drop

[@SaHaRaSquad]

@@puncherinokripperino2500 It all depends on what "level" means to you. There's level as in "map" or "game world" in which case those tetris modes would just be different modes in the same level. There's also level as in "stage", like where you can have multiple variants and you have to finish all of them in some order to finish the game. Like for example in a racing game where you always play on the same race tracks but with different goals or against harder opponents. And Jon clearly talks about levels as in different puzzles, not the same one in different variations.

[@Clovelt]

🖤

[@UltimatePiccolo]

Braid was better than the witness.

[@Mrmr-nw4eu]

Jonathan, I believe, has given up on his upcoming programming language because Rust has been out there, so, there is no need for another programming language of efficiency. Right? While there is Rust, why need more. Waste of time. So, has he converted his codebase into Rust already?

[@BlowFan]

"It wasn't always so clear, but the Rust programming language is fundamentally about empowerment: no matter what kind of code you are writing now, Rust empowers you to reach farther, to program with confidence in a wider variety of domains than you did before."

[@SaHaRaSquad]

What, did he stop working on Jai? Haven't followed that all too closely.

[@Mrmr-nw4eu]

@@SaHaRaSquad I don't think so. I was just trying to tease him that he doesn't have to bother for a new language, that Rust can not be topped already.

[@Cons-Cat]

Rust is not in any way useful in the same ways Jai is. It exists for a niche domain that has nothing to do with video games. Jai can actually do things. C++26 will also be useful, but generally less elegant than Jai.

[@djcb4190]

That is not a game. Jonathan, you should do...

[@puncherinokripperino2500]

not apples to apples comparison - у нас это называется "сравнить жопу с пальцем"

[@TheLuceArs]

Великий и могучий!

[@nerdError0XF]

Спасибо, буду знать!)

[@phemartin]

More coherent than Hollow night?

[@josemwarrior]

wtf bro, what are you talking about? 🤣

[@SaHaRaSquad]

It's the Dark Souls of Jonathan Blow.

[@arthurtower8192]

Is this Todd Howard speaking?

[@youtubesuresuckscock]

He's a comical ego case. *shows the most basic, bland game* "NOTHING HAS EVER BEEN DONE ON THIS LEVEL BEFORE. Yeah sure okay. We really believe you.

[@APaleDot]

On one hand I see where you're coming from, and I'm skeptical of grand claims. On the other hand, a game like Steven Sausage Roll looks like a very "basic, bland game" and yet has such a surprising and ingenious design, that each puzzle is like a mind-expanding experience even though nothing "new" has been introduced.