Joni Mitchell's For the Roses | Ranking the Tracks

[@deanjonasson6776]

The cliche of FOR THE ROSES turns out to be a truth: this is a classic 'transitional' album wedged between two of her best. Like any middle child, easy to overlook but filled with emotion and yearning. Most of the acoustic pieces could easily fit on LADIES OF THE CANYON or BLUE. While complex lyrically, the melodies tend to be rambling, creating an almost stream-of-conscious effect. Because there are so many of these, the album can be an elusive listen or at least samey. Doing a track-by-track ranking then will rely on highlighting the arrangements: the addition of backing vocals, brief instrumental interludes or hooks attached at the end. The album is leavened by the tracks that look ahead to her more jazzy and commercial phase. Thus, we get fuller pieces like "Cold Blue Steel...", "Barangrill" and "Let the Wind Carry Me" that jump out of the soundscape and provide needed contrast. "You Turn Me On...", the for-purpose single (encouraged by commercially-minded David Geffen), is the outlier, a catchy folk song with country fringes that reminds us that Joni can be fun and catchy. (Let's not forget "Night in the City", "Big Yellow Taxi" and "Carey" from her previous albums.) The power of FOR THE ROSES is in the lyrical content: an artist analyzing how love and fame might be changing her. It's the last of her purely confessional albums. Moving forward, Mitchell will start to explore her main themes through the voices and experiences of characters. Her escape to the wilderness (emphasized in the album art) provided an opportunity to create distance between the artist and her art. For that alone, this is an interesting album.

[@robforzese5496]

Do u plan on making this a series? I think it’s a great idea

[@scottanthonyweidner8692]

It’s the perfect analytical music nerd exercise. Love it.

[@echosmyron1278]

They should do this with The White Album (to be fair, there are already a few videos on YT that have done so). Due to the high number of skippable tracks, I only have TWA at 3 stars. But it would be interesting to see a Beatles fanboy like Jason try to defend “Why Don’t We Do It in the Road?” and “Bungalow Bill.” He called TWA perfect in the listography video.

[@scottanthonyweidner8692]

@@echosmyron1278 My list of skippable tracks on TWA: 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. “Beatles fan boy” = “sane and otherwise typical pop/rock music fan”

[@mrp4242]

@@echosmyron1278 , The White Album is a great choice. I’d also like to see their take on Led Zeppelin II.

[@kevtruth]

@@echosmyron1278 I would expect Wild Honey Pie to be high on his list and Revolution 9. Sarcasm

[@melancho96]

I love this album and every single track on it. My personal ranking: 1. Let the Wind Carry me 2. Lesson in Survival 3. Banquet 4. Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire 5. Blonde in the Bleachers 6. You Turn me on (I‘m a Radio) 7. Barangrill 8. Judgment of the Moon and Stars 9. For the Roses 10. Woman of Heart and Mind 11. Electricity 12. See you Sometime

[@DanInMUC]

For The Roses and Hejira are my favourite Joni albums, it's really hard for me to rank the songs. My least favourite would probably be See you sometime, probably the only song on the album I skip when it's coming up. My absolute favourites are Blonde in the bleachers (the band marks the transition into the C&S soft rock jazz fusion sound), For the roses, Let the wind carry me and Lesson in survival. I feel like this is the album where Joni reached her songwriting peak, especially in the lyrics. I will never understand how Blue is generally considered Joni's best work when two absolute masterpieces like FTR and Hejira.

[@ronirico6214]

I have always loved this album- not as a comparison to her others-but as a terrific album that embodies Joni from beginning to end. No bad songs.

[@ihavenoquarrelwithyou3249]

Great idea for a new regular feature. It had felt like the channel was idling since the end of Kram-tober and SOTY. But you have just been holding back, waiting to roll this out. For The Roses is the one that I tend to overlook the most in that glorious run from Blue to Hejira. But it has much to love which 2/3 of you pointed out. The two best tracks point to Joni's future. You Turn Me On, I'm A Radio forshadows the pop sensibility of Court And Spark. Cold Blue Steel And Sweet Fire sets the table for the jazz influenced complexity of The Hissing Of Summer Lawns. Great video.

[@davidellis5141]

Looking for a Shannon sighting in the comments ... This should be a great series particularly if you focus it on albums like this that aren't overly examined. Thumbs Up 👍

[@bengalgangster]

shannon is missed !!! 🐯

[@wallbangerreactions]

My two favorite songs are "Woman of Heart and Mind" and "Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire". As a man, Woman connects me with the feminine point of view more than any song ever. Love it! Good job guys.

[@pulsar861]

What a great idea! I hope Ranking The Tracks becomes a regular series. Great discussion/analysis of an album and you have a nearly endless number of albums for future picks. Good job!

[@painless465]

You picked the one Joni album from the 70's that I know least about! For some reason I never got around to it,the only two songs I know are YTMOIAR and Cold Blue...,which I really like. Gonna have to pick this album up and looking forward to more Ranking the Tracks!

[@AnotherBadSpeech]

#1 Cold Blue Steel And Sweet Fire #2 Electricity #3 For The Roses #4 See You Sometime #5 Woman Of Heart And Mind #6 Banquet #7 Barangrill #8 You Turn Me On I'm A Radio #9 Blonde In The Bleachers #10 Lesson In Survival #11 Let The Wind Carry Me #12 Judgement Of The Moon And Stars (Ludwig's Tune)

[@jeremyshelman9716]

Nice review. Everyone brings something of value to the party... even party-pooper Jason. "Cold Blue Steel" and "For the Roses" are museum quality Joni, but this album doesn't have a bad song on it. Joseph makes a great point about my personal favorite "Blonde in the Bleachers". That song is a crystal ball into the future for Joni. From then on, she will be the star of her life, not a man.

[@kemmek]

One of my top Joni albums. 1. Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire 2. Barangrill 3. Blonde in the Bleachers 4. For the Roses 5. Woman of Heart and Mind 6. Banquet 7. Electricity 8. You Turn Me On, I’m a Radio 9. See You Sometime 10. Judgement of the Moon and Stars (Ludwig's Tune) 11. Let the Wind Carry Me 12. Lesson in Survival

[@DKaschak1]

So cool to see younger generations giving Joni consideration after many of the folky beginner fans dropped off as she incorporated jazz and world music, and crucified her for changing. Now that decades have passed for those who were carried along to the present, what a reward that she's appreciated by the "cool" crowd of the day. The integrity of the art sustains it over time, regardless of which Joni period one hears.

[@mattmiller4917]

These guys make great content, but they are sort of the opposite of the cool crowd. But I love Joni too.

[@DKaschak1]

@@mattmiller4917 Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I suppose. That said, there's always a lag time with Joni's material before it's fully absorbed. One can listen to it over and over and get something new each time. Good for them. I first heard Joni at the age of nine, and have been hooked ever since. I'm 64 now and feel somewhat validated seeing this video. Especially, since most of my peers were listening to the Stones. Then again, I would follow Bruce Springsteen too, as he launched his career in my native NJ too. Joni's genius was overlooked for a while when the focus shifted to the likes of Madonna. It's simply rewarding to see younger generations appreciate her talent passed the likes of someone so overly produced.

[@mattmiller4917]

@@DKaschak1 I'm 52 and rank Joni's 70s albums up there with some of the best music ever made. I was only teasing you for calling these guys "cool kids," when they are really intensely nerdy music fiends, sort of like me.

[@kevinmcardle4087]

This is the best idea ever... Rank every album, track by track.. please!

[@mattmiller4917]

I joined your Patreon for content like this. Anything related to her 70s period is must watch for me. This is my fourth or favorite Joni album, and I'm mostly with Joe on this one in terms of rankings. For this album I got 1. Cold Blue Steel 2. For the Roses 3. You Turn Me On, I’m a Radio 4. Barangrill 5. Blonde in the Bleachers 6. Woman of Heart and Mind 7. Let the Wind Carry Me 8. Judgement of the Moon and Stars 9. Electricity 10. Banquet 11. See You Sometime 12. Lesson in Survival

[@zacharypopp3549]

Barangrill clearly the best song on the album for me, lyrics, arrangement, vocals, just perfection

[@MemphianSounds]

I'm a massive "Joni-head" ("Mitch-bitch"?) But this is a record I rarely come back to making this already interesting format inspiring.

[@marcuskunter1318]

Dear Jason, Joe and Ryan, you do a very good job with your channel. Although I think most other music ranking channels are quite useless/uninteresting, yours is good because you are able to comment in a objective way (not just subjective gut feeling) on the music and your discussions are great and interesting. It is great that you are more than one person. Since I tend to listen through an artists’ discography in full, the listographies / your videos encourage me to reassess the work of an artist. thanks for that. Two ideas of where you maybe can improve: 1) more comments on the composition / writing would be great, esp. for prog artists. Although I have to admit that this would probably not help to get more people for your channel, but anyway that would be interesting. 2) if you average the ratings of you three, you may use the rating scale of stars, not the rank/position. As a statistician, I have to say that this is a methodical flaw. One last thing: since you recently did 1972: the black crowes released an EP called 1972 with 1972 cover versions. Would you consider to review this? 😊 best marcus

[@chapmancarruthers]

Great idea, but think it would have been even better if you did this with the latest Nickelback album.

[@chapmancarruthers]

But seriously, love to see this done with Leonard Cohen’s Songs Of…

[@AbbeyRoadkill1]

1. Let The Wind Carry Me 2. Cold Blue Steel & Sweet Fire 3. Woman of Heart & Mind 4. Blonde in the Bleachers 5. Electricity 6. Banquet 7. See You Sometime 8. Lesson in Survival 9. For the Roses 10. You Turn Me On, I'm a Radio 11. Judgement of the Moon & Stars (Ludwig's Theme) 12. Barangrill I wouldn't say For the Roses has iconic songs but I have it rated 5 stars anyway because I think it's a perfect album. Every track is worth the time spent. Joni's 2nd best LP in my book, after Blue.

[@ironflazambat5815]

Love to see one of these on “Where You Been?” for its 30th, I listened to it a ton last semester and I’m especially curious to see how Jason ranks the tracks.

[@alanaltimont9007]

Blonde in the Bleachers is a through-composed song--a little example of a Schubert connection she has hinted at in a couple of interviews.

[@OutOnTheTiles]

Great episode guys!! Keep this going. 👍

[@WDRhine]

My favorite Joni Mitchel album. That said, I can appreciate why it might resonate with some folks and not so much for others. My favorite song is "Electricity". The emotional complexity of two people struggling to fix a crumbling relationship is captured in each word, each note. The song's central metaphor never feels forced. Joni casts neither herself or her partner as the villain of the story. And the swell of percussion after she sings "runs all through her circuits like a heartbeat" is a top 10 musical moment for me. Number 2 is "Cold Blue Steel". You touched on most of what makes it so great but no one mentioned the insane and ever changing harmonies Joni sings on "Do you wanna contact somebody first?". They foreshadow her avant garde work without losing their grounding in folk. Number 3 is the final track, "Judgement". The musical interlude in the middle is great but the final section surpasses it and distills the essence of the entire album, perhaps the entire struggle of being an artist. The way she sings "If you're tired of the silent night, Jesus, then yell it" with such self-directed frustration, as if she could conjure up a world where she could find a true companion through her art is the kind of emotional peak that we mere mortals come to Joni Mitchell to gaze in awe.

[@johnw706]

A good ranking by everyone . My favourites on the album are : You Turn Me On , I'm a Radio See You Sometime Cold Blue Steel Blonde in the Bleachers and For the Roses . Cheers !

[@rgwebb5165]

I agree with the analysis that this is a consistent album. The highs arent as high and the lows arent as low. I haven't listened to this album as much as others. I suppose that means it not one of my favorites. It didn't sell as well as the albums that preceded or came after it because it didn't have hits. That said, it's still a great album.

[@suchisthismystery2814]

Joni, the singer, the composer, the poet, the storyteller, the lyricist, the psychologist, the musician, the arranger, the producer, the painter, the artist, the GREATEST of the greats bar none ❤

[@TastesLikeMusic]

Nobody likes a fanboy (or girl). - Joe

[@chrisdelisle3954]

An impossible task. To my ears, this is an approximately perfect record. The sound of the record makes it sound like one long suite. However, it kind of peters out towards the end. Therefore, I'll put the last two tracks (Woman of Heart And Mind & Judgment of the Moon And Stars) as the bottom two. As far as 1-10, who knows. 1 and 2 just might be "For The Roses" and "Banquet," though. The other 8 songs are tied for 3rd.

[@rgwebb5165]

I agree that dropping Judas Priest on Black Friday is a fabulous idea. I am Exciter'd.

[@murraytown4]

Huge Joni fan. Any Joni fan is OK by me. Pride of Canada.

[@BenjaminCrutcher1089]

Love all these new ideas guys! On an off subject, any of you three get to watch the Elton John final concert on Disney+ yet? Would love to hear you’re all thoughts on it

[@gigatoob]

Wow, Banquet is one of the strongest songs on here.. Thanks,

[@scottanthonyweidner8692]

Kram, what’s a bear ‘n’ grill? Sounds dangerous.

[@echosmyron1278]

This is one of four Mitchell 70s albums that I own (but I have no intention or desire to hear more), so surprisingly I can contribute to this topic. That doesn’t happen too often when pre-1980s music is involved. 12. Woman of Heart and Mind 11. See You Sometime 10. Barangrill 9. Lesson in Survival 8. Judgement of the Moon and Stars 7. Blonde in the Bleachers 6. Let the Wind Carry Me 5. For the Roses 4. Banquet 3. Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire 2. Electricity 1. You Turn Me On, I’m a Radio A pleasant album overall, but I can’t give it more than 4 stars. I have no deep connection to the vocals and arrangements, but it does evoke the spirit of the early 1970s in a compelling way. I guess that Mitchell is someone that I don’t mind listening to, but she certainly isn’t a top 200 artist for me.

[@TastesLikeMusic]

You and Jason can be wrong together. - Joe

[@echosmyron1278]

@@TastesLikeMusic Meh. Even though “…Radio” is my top pick from this album, I don’t think it’s an all-time classic. It’s just a pleasant, (somewhat) catchy old folk song with decent lyrics. I don’t hear anything else on FTR that’s as much of an earworm. I’ve been revisiting Stereolab’s entire discography these past few days, so an artist like Joni Mitchell is always going to seem dull by comparison.

[@robertsparling917]

You gotta talk about the new album from Shania Twain, entitled Queen of Me, when it comes out on February 3rd.

[@drdavid1963]

I would say at the bottom are Barangrill, Banquet, For The Roses and Blonde in The Bleachers - good but not spectacular Lesson in Survival, Let The Wind Carry Me and Woman of Heart of Mind are stronger The best tracks to me are still not spectacular (not like Blue or Court and Spark). I'm with Jason. I don;t get to an 8. All of these are 7 - You Turn Me On Like A Radio, Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire, Judgment of the Moon and Stars, Electricity and my favourite is See You Sometime. Overall I think the album is 31/2 - 4 stars. Blue, Court and Spark, Hejira are all 5 and Hissing of The Summer Lawns is at least a4 and maybe 41/2. So it's a dip in form before her stellar period.

[@TheARJAY69]

You guys should do this for Thick As A Brick.😉

[@jameswiglesworth5004]

For me the best three songs are the one's you have chosen

[@bulldoginyellowsubmarine9259]

Every song here is perfect but my favourite is "Blonde in the bleachers"

[@TastesLikeMusic]

Same. - Joe

[@danielhkhk7283]

Blonde in the Bleachers is the best song, no doubt about that.

[@Sir_Eyeball]

One of her best albums, Top 3 for sure. Better than 'Blue'. Here's how I would rank the tracks: 12. See You Sometime 11. For The Roses 10. Banquet 9. Blonde In The Bleachers 8. Lesson In Survival 7. Judgement of the Moon and Stars (Ludwig's Tune) 6. Woman of Heart and Mind 5. Let The Wind Carry Me 4. Electricity 3. Barangrill 2. You Turn Me On, I'm A Radio 1. Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire [My SOTY for 1972]

[@echosmyron1278]

I’m pretty sure “Supernaut” by Black Sabbath would get my SOTY nomination for ‘72. I don’t see what’s super-innovative or catchy on FTR. It’s a step down from Blue in all areas, IMO.

[@Sir_Eyeball]

@@echosmyron1278 FTR is not super-innovative and not that catchy, but that's not what she is going for with her music anyway. I just dislike her vocals on Blue, that's why it's not in my favourite Joni albums.

[@AbbeyRoadkill1]

It took me years to digest Joni Mitchell's music mostly because I'm not the biggest fan of the sound of her voice. She's a bit shrill when she goes for the high notes. But my initial distaste for her vocals has lessened over the years, and her songs have continued to shine through. At this point in my life I'd say she's a lock for my all time top 50 artists.

[@Sir_Eyeball]

@@AbbeyRoadkill1 Sry for the late answer, I agree with the shrill vocals. But I only find those on 'Blue', that's why it's not one of my favourites. Still gave it 4 Stars. Let's see how it will develop for me over time. She's also in my Top 50 artists.

[@179rich]

She looks like Cha-Ka on the cover.

[@echosmyron1278]

She reminds me of the Cryptkeeper. Semi-famous music reviewer Mark Prindle said that her face “looks like a skull.”

[@Joelster-og4pf]

My least favs on here I don’t mind listening to every 3-4 months. 12: Barangrill 11: Judgement Of The Moon & Stars 10: Let The Wind Carry Me 9: You Turn Me On (I’m A Radio) 8: Woman Of Heart And Mind 7: For The Roses 6: See You Sometime 5: Electricity 4: Banquet 3: Lesson In Survival 2: Blonde In The Bleachers 1: Cold Blue Steel & Sweet Fire I like most of the songs. The bottom three are kinda meh. Anyways, This is a great album of Joni’s.

[@scottanthonyweidner8692]

We still getting Priest today?

[@scottanthonyweidner8692]

Never mind, saw your note on the community tab. Friday, or Saturday?

[@TastesLikeMusic]

At the earliest tomorrow, but more likely Thursday or Friday.

[@AbbeyRoadkill1]

@@TastesLikeMusic Dropping Judas Priest on Black Friday would be appropriate.

[@suchisthismystery2814]

I found your responses to this Joni masterpiece shockingly flat, unengaged, emotionally disconnected and totally lacking in appreciation of the lyrical (and musical) brilliance of this great work. Shannon's breakdown review of this masterpiece, (her favourite Joni album by the way), was by contrast, a creative experience in and of itself. Her detailed, nuanced appreciation and understanding, both musical and lyrical, overflowed with love and adoration. Sorry guys, but you barely scratched the surface. If you're not prepared to dive in, why bother? I mean really!

[@TastesLikeMusic]

Its just a track ranking. We’re not writing an original thesis on the meaning behind the lyrics here. - Joe

[@suchisthismystery2814]

@@TastesLikeMusic "It's just a track ranking!" A profoundly superficial "track ranking" of a musical masterpiece. But hey, "it's just a track ranking".

[@rgwebb5165]

Probably not as good as the new Nickelback album

[@eltonmusicfan]

Sorry but I didn't find this video helpful because you say nothing concerning what the songs are about. The reviews are purely on what they sound like. What about the lyrical content? Isn't that important?

[@TastesLikeMusic]

I mention lyrics at least a couple times. - Joe

[@suchisthismystery2814]

John I couldn't agree with you more.

[@suchisthismystery2814]

@@TastesLikeMusic I found your responses to this Joni masterpiece shockingly flat, unengaged, emotionally disconnected and yes totally lacking in appreciation of the lyrical (and musical) brilliance of this great work. Shannon's breakdown review of this masterpiece (her favourite Joni album by the way), was by contrast, a creative experience in and of itself. Her detailed, nuanced appreciation and understanding, both musical and lyrical, overflowed with love and adoration. Sorry guys, but you barely scratched the surface. If you're not prepared to dive in, why bother? I mean really!