Modern Times: Camille Paglia & Jordan B Peterson

[@step2191]

Who else, once you found JBP, have watched hours and hours of debate and lecture, or listened to it in the background while you do something? I have, I could listen for days! Really has changed the way I look at things. All for free. Thanks Jordan, you are gifted.

[@Chaos-lb9hi]

I listen to JP when I workout (daily) I workout for my therapy. And Jordan’s powerful thought and how he can articulate in his speech. I am honestly in awe. He’s helped me in a number of ways.

[@ericferre]

Me too, listen maps of meaning while studying. greetings from Barcelona

[@musafir3]

I'm totaly addicted , it has been my music for months now and he pushes me to be à better human been .

[@XyZiid]

It's been almost 2 months with me

[@pukhatozhimo]

I do that too. For some reason I enjoy it the most when I'm doing my sudoku. 😃

[@nateswain4633]

I love seeing this other side of JBP - the intense listener, rather than the lecturer or debater. He's obviously got huge respect for her.

[@joaitken123]

Isn’t it great not to see the female trying to take him down because he’s a white man who talks with intellectual honesty especially on the equality argument which they hate to hear that in fact women are different to men. This lady has the brains not to even want to argue it. This is what a real pair of feminists looks like.

[@nateswain4633]

@@joaitken123 she's not ideologically possessed, that's why

[@lubberwalker]

He's learning.

[@lubberwalker]

@@nateswain4633 and she's almost not gender possessed either.

[@the.french.lobstercolinrau2728]

one doesn't realize that such a person must have spent more of his life listening than teaching ;)

[@donwurbadit]

To see Jordan finally not have to fight his way through an interview, but have an enjoyable and fascinating conversation is so wonderful. If you look at his face, it is relaxed and smiling. God bless this man.

[@aryasayne]

Yes, the Cathy Newman interview is a bit like watching a parent patiently attempting to debate a three-year-old.

[@DarkFoxV]

Yeah, while I think more could be added to this conversation, the fact that *it's a conversation* and not looking to reach a goal or accuse or "defeat" one of the speakers but to learn and bounce ideas off of each other instead; it understands how human conversation is at it's best.

[@ErikDeMann]

@@aryasayne Cathy Newman is mediocracy personified, her job is to address the mediocre, uninformed viewer.

[@aryasayne]

@@ErikDeMann agreed, although I'd suggest the communist-indoctrinated viewer. She is the most irritating journalist ever., animus possessed indeed.

[@mrssslimer]

he is conducting the interview not being interviewed. why would he struggle? he is the one asking the questions. this is his channel. he doesnt struggle with anybody. he chooses the people he wants to talk to.

[@xxkaorixx]

I can’t believe I just discovered this interview and its from 5 years ago!!! This needs to be shown at universities, this discussion is so essential!!

[@abstr4ctisease]

Saw it the first time 5 years ago, and it has never left me. Camille Paglia is an absolute heroin in my eyes, savor the interview and enjoy it to the fullest! Have a nice day!

[@ArtPhotographerLindsay]

Same here!

[@faithburns8379]

Read her books

[@rahul_bali]

Yes, here after 5 years.

[@mikegore5840]

Ok

[@bebopj]

Attempt at a bibliography for this video: Jordan Peterson - Maps of Meaning Camille Paglia - Sexual Personae Camille Paglia - Sex, Art and American Culture (contains both her infamous date rape essay and her demolishing of the Post Modernists) Carl Jung - Symbols of Transformation Erich Neumann - The Origins and History of Consciousness Erich Neumann - The Great Mother Frederich Nietzsche - On the Genealogy of Morals For what they're reacting against: Michel Foucault - Madness and Civilization Michel Foucault - The Order of Things Jacques Derrida - Of Grammatology Jacques Lacan - Ecrits I don't know what works Camille is thinking about for Leslie Fiedler, Norman Holland, Max Weber, Emile Durkheim or Erving Goffman.

[@AlexanderJonesYoutube]

bebopj you're the real mvp of this comment section.

[@headbandassasin]

legend

[@bebopj]

I just really like bibliographies.

[@withastone]

Suicide - Durkheim; Presentation of Self in Everyday Life - Goffman Both works refer to the importance of sociological factors in human psychology and behavior.

[@jimmyart007]

You could add the brief reference to Waiting for Godot too, I guess.

[@biddydibdab9180]

Dr. Peterson is a great speaker but what I see here is his extraordinary ability to also listen with intensity. He is so unlike the many people who interview him who constantly try to focus attention on themselves. This is a great conversation.

[@miguelcanutodacosta8091]

I only wish we had captions on his thoughts whilst listening...

[@MelissaRayneDance]

I noticed a similar thing watching the Australian Q and A he participated in earlier this year. The two self-proclaimed "feminists" on the panel (the type to spout "representative democracy" provided that it only extends to privileged, mostly Caucasian women who have had the luxury of being able to spend 15+ years of their lives in full-time education ) were deliberately ignoring Peterson and making obtuse noises etc etc. But when it was their turn to speak, Peterson listened carefully and intently before giving considerate and measured responses. Whether you dislike someone or vehemently disagree with their opinions, when it comes to public discussions there's a way of conducting yourself that is dignified and shows a mark of intelligence - Peterson's got this down pat and it's impossible not to respect him as a consequence.

[@himrix]

He is a professional psychologist before a thinker. He is a professional listener

[@cecynay7369]

Both of them have complete focus on the conversation and are excited to explore all of its facets. So refreshing.

[@ugottheblues]

I really respect how Camille is able to talk A LOT and she's known for that, but she also really listens and clearly has respect for Jordan. When he's getting ideas out she really gives him the floor. It's rare to see someone who can be so equally a good talker and a good listener. I feel like it's the mark of a genuine intellectual. Somebody who has a lot of activity in their mind but is always open to learning. This actually goes for Jordan as well. The only problem with this conversation is how much they agree with each other. Luckily their focuses are different enough that it's still very interesting and they inspire ideas in each other.

[@pn5721]

JBP doesn't agree w her on God (he doesn't say, for obvious reasons, that he's a believer, but he'd step over that line if push came to shove I think), abortion, or porn, and he has nuanced views on gay marriage (whereas in all of these she's a full-blown libertarian) - BUT he doesn't insist on disagreeing with her when these come up for brief mention by her, which I'm glad of. It's like old Jesu said, "Not everyone who says "Lord! Lord" enters into the Kingdom of Heaven, but he who DOES the will of my Father." Camille Paglia DOES the will of the Father. SHE SEES. A true prophetess and I love her. She can SAY she believes in allowing porn, abortion, whatever. But it's what she SPEAKS ON IN DEFENSE OF that matters. I hope she doesn't speak in defense of those things. I haven't watched much of her beyond this with JBP, but if this is representative, everything she chose to elaborate on, to expatiate on, is GREAT TRUE AND ON THE MONEY. 'God bless her,' everyone.

[@moolieporchers7629]

It is a sad commentary on our society that watching two people who know what they are talking about, and actually endeavoring to communicate with each other, can seem to be something unique and wonderful. It should be commonplace.

[@transporter78213]

They came together for a conversation, not a debate. An attempt at expanding said conversation. Not as J pointed out, as 13yr olds. Our politicians and the media can relearn what their roles in societies should be by this mature display.

[@Catherine-NYC]

@@moolieporchers7629 This type of conversation was perfectly commonplace in tiny kitchens of Eastern block dissidents. No worries our society is almost there (sarcasm*): a few more years of current cultural unraveling and toxic ideas being gradually enshrined into law followed by a few more years or decades of real tyranny, with dissenters being physically imprisoned and exterminated (vs. simply cancelled), and I promise you, a good amount of people will start asking real questions and finding real answers as a consequence, out of pure desperation and need for survival. Intellectual conversations like these will flourish. Jordan and Camille are not merely intellectual but also wise bc they are trained to see all processes within a larger context of many other disciplines, in this case history and biology, without being trained historians or biologists (on the contrary, our new Supreme Court Justice refuses to explain who a woman is because she’s not a biologist - !!! She’s a poster child for the death of classical education.) These two (and many others, classically trained) have a skill: they account for wisdom collected not just by a few generations but by the entire course of humanity.

[@jc720725]

I think it just seemed like a lot of agreement. I think Mr. Peterson was just glad to find someone who might be able to validate his thoughts. Two intelligent people that feel things are not a good as they were or could be might very well be on the same page!

[@FatuousRobertson]

True story. As an art professor, I told my college administrators that education was way too expensive and that art students would reach out to artists they admired and ask if they could apprentice with them for just a cot in their studio spaces. I pointed out that this would be essentially what the Guild system was during the Renaissance and the response was "but they won't have an accredited degree!" I responded that there wasn't a single art student at my university who wouldn't want to study with Leonardo, Michelangelo, "or any of the Ninja Turtle dudes, none of whom had an accredited degree!"

[@LilyGazou]

Best thing to learn is the business of art if one wants to make a living in that world. A waitress friend sent her daughter to Pratt in NYC. I looked it up- they say their graduates are prepared to work in the best galleries in the world. 😂😂 Her daughter graduated. And is a waitress.

[@Temeika_B]

Degrees are important for artists! Practice is unnecessary. You should have taken a pic of your face after their response. I am sure it was meme-worthy.

[@ClarkPotter]

​@@LilyGazou Idk if that's more hilarious or sad. Just decided it's more sad.

[@garrettbryan2717]

@FatuousRobertson WOW. I think about this all the time especially in regard to art creation. People that are real artists in my experience can't restrain themselves. It pours out of them. If you put them in a brick cell they will use their food, or their blood, or their cloths to make something amazing. Going to collage for this seems silly. Someone who studies under an amazing artist would mean WAY more than a degree. I tell my kids this and I would tell anyone else. If you want to be an artist than create art.

[@deborahhoffman7394]

A degree gives you education useful in many ways. But it does not necessarily make you an artist.

[@aidanmehigan7062]

Ive never seen Peterson refrain from cutting someone off mid-speech as much as he did with Paglia in this conversation. A sign of true admiration.

[@marksmanmerc1]

Bro she's intimidating as hell. I'd be afraid to interject too. She'd call me a philistine and then I'd get to experience the verbal equivalent of being mauled by a bear.

[@gregwinter8503]

@@marksmanmerc1 Lolol.

[@RashaunMichelle]

Yes. Because she matches his intellect, knowledge, and assertiveness. So in order to participate, he literally has to break into her speaking to get a point in edgewise. Very good conversation.

[@AnneliedeWet]

​@@marksmanmerc1 BS..she's not intimidating at all. She's simply animated. Wtf is wrong with you?

[@AnneliedeWet]

I think he simply wants to hear what she says...

[@ghozt9601]

I’m now convinced I’ve never been in an actual conversation

[@patrickmccabe8428]

I feel like an idiot. I had to look up every other word 😅 they’re so knowledgeable and intelligent and I aspire to be like them

[@shaggyfeng9110]

@@patrickmccabe8428 They did tones of readings and some researches.

[@shaggyfeng9110]

@@markdouglas1601 Good for you

[@Kobac1990]

Dude... I hear you there. For me, its like: The ideas and worries these people have man. Like, im soooo far away from that that we dont live in the same world.

[@rheinhartsilvento2576]

I understand what you mean 😁. I think in this way, most people haven't either. I'm lucky in that of late, I've been able to have conversations that point towards that level. Without being as erudite and complete as those geniuses of course.

[@stuianwood]

Two beautiful minds and spirits that have suffered severe vilification simply for voicing their very well crafted and deeply informed views. An enthralling conversation which was a joy and privilege to watch. Thank you Dr Peterson and thank you Dr Paglia for sharing this.

[@rman5033]

Listen to Fiamengo File you will LOVE it.Its a broad frying fem fog

[@Magoover1]

Pseudointellectualism can't tolerate honest intellect.

[@Magoover1]

36:30-38:10

[@Malouco]

Did she say “I am a tranny”, was this a joke or for sake of arguement?

[@michaelsieger9133]

Vilification from where? Not to mention their entire “scholarly” career is vilifying intellectuals they don’t understand. This hysterical bitch also seems to think that Foucault’s mission was to destroy art (lol)

[@comegetzome]

This is easily one of the best conversations from two unique true patriots of academia talking about post-modernism. It’s one of my favorite episodes Peterson has ever done & I truly admire Paglia for her abundance of knowledge in art & economics.

[@brittimusmaximus7298]

Also have her to thank for adding "intellectual midgets" to my repertoire. 😂

[@dr.emilschaffhausen4683]

Li'l, how long have you been a victim?

[@KentShepherd]

@@lilmoe4364 You can just admit you couldn't keep up. We won't think any less of you.

[@crichtonbruce4329]

@@KentShepherd I admit not keeping up freely. Sometimes you hear a conversation were you think your grey matter must be leaking out of your ears because of its banality and/or stupidity. Sometimes you hear a conversation (like this one) were your not sure your mind can expand enough to take in all the wonderful new ideas your being exposed to.

[@NadiaGee78]

Intellectual midgets! Haha. She's fascinating.

[@DrStephenTee]

I love watching Jordan and Camille. It's like getting the benefit of thousands of books, conversations and thought over years all in one session! Brilliant.

[@TheSanityMachine33]

Jordan Peterson is a leftist UN/NWO puppet on the world STAGE... Paglia is a NAMBLA/pedo supporter....... both of them sold their souls for fame and fortune long ago....

[@gussampson5029]

I think that's how we should all approach every conversation. Look at people like they have a wealth of knowledge and experience and therefore something worth learning. Try to dig it out of them and you'll both have a very useful and very enjoyable conversation.

[@StanGraham1]

totally true Stephen!

[@PrenticeBoy1688]

This is rather good. I was familiar with Paglia before I gave into actually listening to Peterson. I heartily recommend the Firing Line Debate where I first came upon Dr. Paglia. The title is something like Resolved: That the Feminist Movement was a Complete Disaster. The Con side was led by Betty Friedan and otherwise consisted of lesbians, Dr. Paglia included. She could've been on the other team, as she was rather clear that she thought what the feminist movement had become was detestable.

[@TheSanityMachine33]

@@PrenticeBoy1688 do you support NAMBLA like Paglia does?

[@bigboi9767]

The sheer emotion you can feel when Paglia speaks is something I haven't heard from people in a long time

[@jesusjohnny8286]

She's like that all the time. Beautiful.

[@fultonicemedia]

I can't even figure out what emotion is happening

[@burnlikeneon4044]

It's why people say right wingers are angry.

[@bigboi9767]

@@burnlikeneon4044 because only anger is loud

[@electricdreamsofsoul8195]

@@fultonicemedia I think it’s what the wise sages used to call righteous indignation, although it’s only been heard of in myths and legends. It’s a state that can only be achieved through integrity, expertise, and testicular fortitude lol

[@DG-bb4ij]

It’s so rare to see Dr. Peterson have a conversation with someone equally as competent as himself. He’s having so much fun bouncing ideas with the queen herself!

[@ksid6003]

I’m only 12 minutes-in and I’m like, fuck she is smart! Definitely an equal to JBP

[@ekksoku]

@@bentoboxofire7404 I think that's just part of her frantic personality and can be disregarded, listen to the information, not the "poo poo" no? And just because there's some poo poo, doesn't mean there isn't a gold nugget in the middle, one of the issues of today is taking things at face value.

[@smotnick]

Though they conveniently (or smartly) avert lowering the age of consent.

[@DG-bb4ij]

Ekksoku Agreed! That’s the process of learning. You take in as much information as possible, parse out things you don’t agree with, and critically challenge their ideas as well as your own. No matter how brilliant, no one is 100 percent correct. Reducing people’s agreement to political alignment is honestly just such a lazy argument.

[@seancarson1212]

@@bentoboxofire7404 Try reading Sexual Personae....

[@Grogx331994]

My god she was born in 1947. Intellectual fire and passion keeps you young, it's finally confirmed! Amazing conversation as always.

[@sandbach7195]

You can see how much Jordan P. respects another intellectual on his level. Delightful to watch.

[@warrenclark7982]

This is true, he has so few intellectual equals.

[@ulisesurquia3197]

Precisely!

[@mistythegamer4556]

To tell the truth, I found Dr. Peterson's videos just over 24 hours ago and I have been met with world view changing revelations one after the other. As woefully uninformed as I still am, me from two days ago was appallingly, unbelievably, and unforgivably ignorant. Strange that I can only feel blessed and thankful to learn that I am absolutely being robbed.

[@Ounouh]

There is so much good content from Dr. Peterson. Please watch his visits in JRE if you already haven't. Just search from here youtube: Joe Rogan Experience #877 - Jordan Peterson Joe Rogan Experience #1006 - Jordan Peterson & Bret Weinstein Joe Rogan Experience #1139 - Jordan Peterson Joe Rogan Experience #1208 - Jordan Peterson Have a nice day.

[@Mrs.Criticless]

Forgive yourself! And forgive others whose brains are still dormant. And pray that more people will actually wake up to what is historically playing out right now due to our abismal mal-education as Camille so beautifully put it!

[@olafbooij6849]

I've a playlist with my favorite content of Jordan Peterson, mainly full length podcasts or lecture series.If you're interested.

[@MsJilliard]

Don’t be made about what you’ve missed, be grateful that your not there anymore and will never “go back to sleep”

[@carminedeleo209]

Welcome to the real world. :)

[@scillyautomatic]

And a very special *thanks* to all the SJWs of Canada and the US who introduced me to Peterson and Paglia. If it were not for your protest a the University of Toronto, a year ago today, I might never have known about either one.

[@anddoomsticeforall8140]

David Henning crazy how that works

[@iansladetullis]

Yep, same story for me!

[@gregc6535]

Here here! They finally have served a useful purpose!

[@jennifers508]

Ditto

[@Hammasmash]

David Henning hahaha same here! My life has only improved upon discovering these individuals.

[@burkejones8277]

I am so happy that I went to college and graduate school and had professors like these two people, not them specifically, but professors who had the same passion for connecting things like these two do. Let’s just call it a common sense approach to reality.

[@threeofeight197]

My professors were like this too. Idk where all the “over the top” libs are but there weren’t in my state university. I think this is a niche rich ppl college problem.

[@kazbah1217]

I graduated in 2018, not that long ago and was super disappointed with my uni and lecturers experience. I was forced to take politically charged subjects otherwise I wouldn't be allowed to graduate. These subjects on a more impressionable person would have left me having radicalised and pro political views. Luckily I'm an older graduate with a strong resistance to conformity with evil alignments. I could spit on my degree that's how much I value it now, but I am still stuck with uni debt that has interest added yearly. Great recipe for a dissatisfied and bitter citizen.

[@ohwowlovely8733]

The contrast between Peterson's self-disciplined/controlled body language and his careful/neat speech with Paglia's theatrical expressiveness and open flow of thoughts. (Both impressive)

[@luxetteboutique9520]

Yes the personality types are wonderful to watch. She is a pure artist and free thinker.

[@ceruchi2084]

frootjooce He interviews Jonathan Haidt with the same format (and at the same length) elsewhere on this channel. It's also a joy to watch!

[@iagovelazquez8500]

Indeed, much as I love Paglia, that is simply the price men must pay to interact with women in general and harsh women in particular. Women and children make a lot of noise, get used to it.

[@designthinkingwithgian]

classic Yin-Yang display

[@William1942-t2w]

I am humbled and stunned by the power of the persuasiveness of the arguments here. I am elated by the serendipity that allowed me to find it. I'm 76 and I am moved.

[@EdgarParedes.127]

I’m 43, and I enjoyed it too.

[@middleofnowhere1313]

Almost 50. Love these two.

[@averagefemale3731]

27 and can't wait to pass these values to my children! CAN'T WAIT!

[@mikeschneider1624]

I am much younger than the other people commenting here (thats a lie) .. anyway you and me both Bill!

[@mariovillanueva2442]

I love yo Bill

[@thequestion5935]

As intellectually stimulating as this interview is it is equally as satisfying to know this is a collaborative discourse between an open Christian and an Open Atheist. Their fundamental belief of the source of morality did not hinder their efforts to explore morality together. Powerful

[@keymaker2112]

I'm at a loss sir, where is this purported Christian in the video?

[@821lancevance]

@@keymaker2112 Peterson has said that in a different video

[@keymaker2112]

He's a theist, certainly, or seems to be, but to qualify him as a Christian would require that he profess a Creed, which he does not. He's a cultural Christian at best.

[@keymaker2112]

@@821lancevance Nothing he has said equates with any known Christian creed. At best he's expressed ideas that are deistic and culturally Christian, nothing more. The essential cornerstone of "Mere Christianity", he has not formally acknowledged, namely 1) Jesus rose from the tomb. Barring this he cannot, even in the barest sense, be said to be a Christian.

[@jackneely9404]

If Christian means agreeing with the ethos, he's Christian. If Christian means believing the Jesus Christ story literally happened..... it is very unlikely that Peterson believes this. He's a literary deconstructionist. He is probably an atheist. I'm in this boat. I believe in the Christian ethos aesthetic, as in, sacrificing yourself for the highest conceptual good. But I'm too creatively minded to truly and consistently believe ANYTHING in the Bible LITERALLY happened. Who knows. We don't know.... generally speaking. Some things we can't know, at least not without a time machine. A *true* scientist knows not to believe in things that do not weather scientific scrutiny. A creative person knows "belief" is a fluid part of conscious experience. He is both, so I really don't think he fits in the box of theist or atheist, but if he had to be shoved into one box, he's probably categorically atheist when it comes straight down to it. This is just my take, cheers.

[@hughgreentree]

Camille, tell us how you REALLY feel. My gosh, she has so much energy. Her passion is wonderful. Her observations are correct. I've seen how bureaucrats have taken over institutions and organizations; they don't know how to actually DO anything other then attend endless meetings. They hate people who really know how to do things and will exclude us...until things are falling apart and they need one of us to come in and put the entity back together.

[@midnightrun2764]

I agree! “I’ll have what she’s having!”…😉….✌🏼🇨🇦

[@tombrennan8372]

Well said. Could not agree more. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@Temeika_B]

This is also present in the K12 system. After working in the classroom and in an administrative role for a while, I realized there was no "real" desire to fix it. Broken by design.

[@thematsc]

When Sinead o'Connor tore apart a picture of the pope on national TV in 1992, as a statement to what the catholic church had done to hide information off priests abuse of children (something the pope knew about) Camille Paglia said that Sinead o'Connor deserved to be abused as a child. I have had a very hard time to take this woman seriously after that comment.

[@ecstanton]

@@thematsc right??!! Sinead knew what was up before the rest of the world...and what a horrific thing for someone who is supposed to be highly educated to say

[@eliasnewman1130]

Not just one of the best conversations I’ve heard, but also, by far one of the most impressive comments sections in youtube history. Absolutely non-toxic. Really gives me some hope for humanity.

[@unoyunotres]

Totally agree!

[@MGTV1]

@Napoleon Bonaparte i was about to say, it won't stay civil for long, and now peterson will have to answer for platforming a nambla spokesperson.

[@MGTV1]

@hugo zubiria its not about convincing people to become, its about convincing people it should be normalized. She is an idiot for the most part.

[@chadfolzenlogel8739]

@@MGTV1 I had never heard of her before I listened to this conversation over a year ago. She makes absolute sense here, bit he's ve heard that she's been a apologist or proponent of nambla. Not sure what to think of her after that. Pedophiles should be executed, not excused.

[@MGTV1]

someone just thumbed up my comment here and it doesn't show on youtube....looks ike youtube is in on covering that for her....especially since they might get a visit from the COPPAS....

[@chriseflores5253]

Peterson is able to make deep commentary with few words. Paglia is able to talk at great length and completely elaborate a topic. Perfect combination.

[@paul_GriyaLestari]

Well, it was an interview and he was the interviewer. He did his job extremely well and she was the perfect interviewee.

[@kettenschlosd]

its so interesting, because it sounds more like a dialouge. its not question-answer-question-answer, rather they start into a question and then both give their insights

[@dmj-ju9zx]

If you let your attention wander for a second you'll miss three ideas. The presence of coffee in the background is appropriate.

[@nintendo9231889]

HookaSmokingCatapillar it's his channel, I think that he is letting his guest speak.

[@felidiusz]

Both of them are so deep thinkers! I swear I can see sparks of intellect jumping between them.

[@HeadlinesWithAVoice]

Absolutely stunning. The opportunity to listen to this discussion between these brilliant minds was an honor. So refreshing. Thank you.

[@Auceza]

lol I don't think they are brilliant. But they aren't at least totally insane.

[@MW-nOttawa]

Keep your opinion to yourself, lest you be judged by the mob.

[@tarstarkusz]

She is stuck in the 1960s. As an older Gen-Xer, I am one of the few people who lived through the transformation. My single digit years was the old way. Everyone I knew lived with their mother and father and the mothers stayed home. They all knew each other and we lived in a real community. I turned 11 in 1980 and everything began changing. 1/2 the kids I knew lost their father and the rest (including myself) became latch-key kids. That 1970s world is absolutely gone and its people like her that keep it gone. Kids today are not allowed to walk to school! At 10 years old I bicycled all over the city. In the summer I went out in the morning and came home for supper. This is something that young adults have no memory of because they never did it, they were home playing video games living in suburbs but not allowed to go outside. They cannot fend for themselves and they can't even make up games the way we did. As was mentioned, we are being surrounded by a hostile group (Islam) and rather than preparing to fight, we are shunning and insulting anyone who sounds the alarm.

[@marcjohnson4385]

Michael W The Mob the Big Shoutdown needs to be poked and proded at every opportunity lest we become part of them

[@jarukgema6060]

Why do you want to "transcend gender"? Our differences are _good_ things.

[@dhawes99]

It's a great delight to return to this. She never stumbled in her speech. Her brilliance is inescapable. Did I say wow yet? Stunning. To see these two talking has raised my IQ 23 points. Jordan is an astoundingly good listener. Wow

[@Temeika_B]

Doug, you are absolutely correct. I noticed his intensity while listening, and I was impressed with his skill. This makes me want to up my game for sure.

[@reddreilly422]

😍😍😍😍

[@lanecore75]

Well said. I was fortunate to find this 5 years ago and I was astonished at this conversation. I was introduced to Camille Paglia here and I was in awe of her rapid fire speech . I try to revisit this conversation at least once a year.

[@mattdrummond3552]

She is an extremely dynamic and independent thinker. Very impressed by this genius of a woman. Jordan was great as usual. So honored to be able to witness this on KZbin!

[@stoonersan2707]

Omg this video broke me. I am actually tearing up watching two intelligent people having a rational discussion. Thank you for this video, it comes at a time in my life when I am surrounded and being consumed by mediocrity. To be a bit cliche here, it is a cold glass of reality as I traverse a desert of vacuous media sensationalism. Again, thank you for this.

[@justinweiss4191]

This conversation was more mentally stimulating and thought provoking than my entire 5 years at a University...

[@dmaestro1514]

Justin Weiss hahahaha

[@flyboy712]

Had you tried, you would have been called bad names and shouted down.

[@I-Libertine]

Justin Weiss I was thinking ther same thing

[@jamesvanceurban8727]

Don't feel bad; it is a lot of brainwashing now days. You have to agree with their ideas of they will ruin you and in our society you need to finish your degree. Universities are horrible places of censorship and fascism(violence and compelled speech).

[@sizzlepants8525]

This level of conversation is beyond so many people that the odds of receiving an education of *this* quality is akin to the needle and the haystack

[@annewillmott3091]

It began, it progressed and it ended in smiles and laughter. The essence of conversation, talking and listening in turn, respect when learning something new and delight in sharing similarities of thought. The best conversation I’ve had the privilege to witness. I’m still chuckling with delight, thank you so much dear people. I’m 80, just, so have lived through a decades of time you discussed. History was a huge part of my learning, both in school and around the dining table discussions at home. I learned to think for myself, read voraciously, debate my point thoughtfully and valued my fathers and mothers life history, even to this day.

[@johndavies1987]

Hello there. I'm watching the interview and also looking at some comments occasionally. I was very taken by your comments, because they are so articulate and profound. I'm just sitting here reading your words, saying yes yes yes! I'm 74 and would love it if they could arrange another conversation. It certainly causes me to reflect on how things have changed in our lifetime. Love your words. All the very best to you. John Davies.

[@tylerbuckner3750]

“Intellectual midgets”, “Middlebrow Philistines”, Murmuring High Priests”. I love this woman.😂🔥

[@chickenmonger123]

Her characterization of people associated with those movements is excellent. However she would’ve been much more concise in her diatribe without wasting time with all of that.

[@chickenmonger123]

Vim Fuego Or are you an intellectual midget? One does have to wonder occasionally.

[@fridajohansson846]

Yep, I slowly repeated ’hopelessly middlebrow’ out loud to myself there.

[@adamsmith307]

Vim Fuego you seem intimidated by a genuinely empowered and passionate woman.

[@silent_shout]

I learned the word "Quisling" when she was describing male feminists lol

[@MrDeVillie]

Jordan on level of tuition fees and student loans: "It seems to me that the bureaucracy has conspired to pick the pockets of students' future earnings and they do that by offering extended adolescence"

[@sophiasadek]

Bureaucracy has been a blight on the West since the days of Caesar.

[@irishpolish80]

My take on the issue of student loans/debt. It's a postmodern day version of indentured servitude. Only the "7 years to win your freedom" is spent in college receiving an adequate brainwashing of state approved subjects. After college, if you studied liberal arts, you spend the rest of your life without a career, matching your degree and are forever paying the government for the privilege of being brainwashed. If you do find a career matching your degree, you work within the brainwashing machine, perpetuating its growth and its "validity".

[@hedgefundphil]

But people like extended adolescene

[@spencer5028]

He needs to name the globalists

[@arai6147]

billy bob johnson that is the point billy!

[@mellieelle]

I'm so in love with how this conversation makes me feel. As a University student, this is so refreshing. I really wish these two were my professors. Thank-you for posting this!

[@jamiewulfyr4607]

Mellie.I'm from Generation X. All is not lost as long as there are people like yourself shaping our world.Thank you for giving me hope for the future!☺

[@TIm_Bugge]

Franco Martellini, Don't be sad. Focus on what you CAN do. You don't need a university to become educated. Virtually everything you need is available on the internet.

[@mellieelle]

Tim Bugge I FULLY agree! University today seems to teach a few decent ideas through a narrow conceptual framework. University has only made me question what else is out there, which I find online or in books. Franco, you write English better than the majority of the population, and that isn't an exaggeration. If I were you, I would feel absolutely astonished by how much you've been able to grow through sheer determination and commitment. :)

[@popoaraaon41ifyi]

Mellie I whole-heartedly agree... I was aware of most of the concepts in this discussion, but having them expressed so succinctly and holistically really inspired me to continue my education. I was in University, but I felt it wasn't the place for me just yet. I plan to continue my education on my own and revisit college once I am wiser. In the meantime I will explore my masculinity and consciousness to some extent.

[@popoaraaon41ifyi]

Franco Martellini Man, I commend your sheer tenacity. I wish you the best. I truly admire and appreciate those who understand the value of education. English wasn't my first language either and pursuing university would be a very expensive venture for me, so I may understand a bit where you are coming from. I encourage you to continue your education.

[@cameronmacdonald772]

Wow. Five years after this was put out and it is still an amazing and relevant conversation! Often I watch or listen at 1.5 times the speed, but Camille Paglia had so much to say and said it so quickly, I actually thought about slowing it down to 0.75! This was an incredible conversation!

[@reddreilly422]

😂

[@orlandofestrox6452]

Both Paglia and Peterson shine with intellectual brilliance. This is the kind of open conversation that should be taught to today's screaming, irrational masses. So much information, will have to watch this twice!

[@trockfield77]

No, they don't. They offer dangerously reductive ideas about the world based on a methodologically unsound mash-up of biological determinism, moribund mythic archetypes, and a barely disguised Neo-liberalism.

[@2Phast4Rocket]

The left has lost the art of having a dialog. All they can do is to chant "black lives matter" or "love trump hate". They are your modern day robots.

[@adamp4428]

@Kyler Markle you're not a woman, you don't understand the "threat" they would feel. Go read more maybe you'll realize you sound like a tool.

[@iuricpeixoto]

"Peterson was incontrovertibly one of the most brilliant minds I have ever encountered" -Camille Paglia (in a interview by "spectator us")

[@chanimarie6753]

You can tell shes impressed by him as shes trying to overcompensate herself. Camille Paglia can stand with the best of them, been around alot linger than Peterson, shes got nothing to prove, but she felt she did. They both enjoyed eachother company. Great conversation between two intellectual giants.

[@peterkay7458]

HOW DARE SHE!!!

[@peterkay7458]

@@chanimarie6753 I do what she does because I study entanglement for NASA's NIAC. I once spoke with the inventor of Teflon, the most modest man I ever met. She is just excited to finally meet a mind equivalent to her own, at least taht is why i get like that, it is unbridled excitement and enthusiasm expressed simulateneously....i fell in love with both a little bit, and not gay or TGI

[@peterkay7458]

@ I agree Neil just a true delight, she got so excited it was contagious, JP as usual is ..........immeasurably calm :P but clearly THRILLED a planck distance below the surface

[@BiggestRedditor]

Corno di Bassetto She's literally said that she's very impressed by him..

[@YuyiLeal]

Please Jordan, keep in touch with her when building the online university...she has such a great idea of a well rounded education...keeping the greater narratives in mind, how it all connects.

[@YuyiLeal]

I agree M.T. Matter, great insight! That is why students must be given an integrated education, where they are simultaneously considering how one thing ties in with another and another - history, art, religion, philosophy, psychology, sociology, etc. And yes, Religion seems like a fundamental binding thread across the epochs of human kind. I was very lucky to have studied World Religions as a Major in University, it opened my eyes so much to the realities and paradigms of so many different nations and traditions across the world... it was a very enriching experience which I can't even put into words. I think at least an introductory course in World religions is a must!

[@TangMan14]

Except she endorses child porn and pedophilia.... Not someone that should be around Children

[@paulj9821]

@@TangMan14 You done? How many more comments will you copy and paste your reply?

[@EllaArmstrong25]

Wow, I could listen to this all day. It‘s not only interesting but it’s extremely cathartic to hear people speaking the truth and making sense in a world that seems to have turned its back on reality.

[@adamdrives365]

100% agree, makes me want to go start an argument 😂

[@ktbayarea]

This

[@TdotJohn]

This may be the greatest anti- modern feminism, pro- classical feminism video of all time.

[@FrancoJ-c7p]

The New Left IS the SYSTEM. They are not ANTI-System at all! Saying they are anti-system is just propaganda. That´s the whole point.

[@stevencable6317]

TdotJohn there is no classical feminism. The classical thinkers would have mocked her

[@KR-nv3ru]

She's also pro NAMBLA. 🤢🤢

[@fattiemcfats9783]

Jordan. Go to 37:35. Patrice Oneal answers this problem in the black phillip show. Go listen to all 12 episodes. Its our job to give them options on how to think. He showed us how.

[@Archetype77]

This woman supports pedophilia and Jordan Peterson helped to draft a U.N. Marxist doctrine that forces equality of outcome across all Nations. He is a lying fraud and she is a demon.

[@g2DN2aTYHzNsVR6o]

I love Camille Paglia. I could just sit all day listening to her. She's so sharp, so funny, so articulate and trenchant. Love love love her.

[@danielhicks1682]

An absolute gift. I never understood why I hated my last 2 years of art school until now. Thank you to these 2 masters for putting those demons to rest.

[@alfalfaomega9290]

The first 13 minutes is quite possibly the best eloquent rant I've ever seen. Beautiful timing, and delivered with gut twisting passion. The look on Jordan's face was a picture in itself. - now for the rest of the video. I don't think I will be disappointed.

[@leekitten]

Thank you Jordan and Camille for this rare opportunity to see two incredible minds come together for an enlightening conversation.

[@shawnellemartineaux6212]

Two people high in openness discussing ideas is the most delightful thing ever. 😍

[@af5433]

What do you think about intersectionality???? Do you belong to black community??? Do you consider yourself feminist=?

[@shawnellemartineaux6212]

@@af5433 from what I understand intersecrionality to be, it is a roundabout way to avoid the fact that the individual is what matters. It requires too many presumptions for it to make sense. I don't think the black community exists. I'm not a feminist in the modern sense. I think men and women should have equal freedom.

[@af5433]

​@@shawnellemartineaux6212 I think that too, but in general I keep on hearing talking about this intersectionality, this modern feminism ecc.. I'm Italian but we're strongly influenced by american politics. I keep on hearing "white privilege", "male privilege" and so on...... So you're indipendent !!!

[@shawnellemartineaux6212]

@@af5433 yeah America is crazy at the moment. I'm not American. Wokeness is a first world problem! I'm from the Caribbean and we are influenced by their politics naturally.

[@af5433]

@@shawnellemartineaux6212 I'm so so so sorry :(.........I really believe that these ideologies are going to be more divisive and they can even worsen problems

[@clydecavalieri4511]

Ben Shapiro and Camila Paglia could have a 20 minute conversation and then someone could publish the 638 page transcript.

[@panzer5033]

Lol

[@BiggestRedditor]

Imagine them arguing in court. The judge wouldn't know what's happening and the person who types the transcripts would be permanently disabled from arthritis.

[@yourjewishmom7791]

She’s way too smart for that dweeb lol

[@demetriusmiddleton1246]

😁🤣

[@OnlyLevel9]

But Camila's "oks" and "alrights" would make up at least 300 of those pages. Holy hell that's annoying.

[@snoxracr]

I would love to hear a follow up conversation between Dr.'s Paglia and Peterson, now that ~5yrs have gone by, about the current state of things since this interview.

[@susansmith493]

She survived a rampant student demand for her dismissal a few years ago at Univ of the Arts. Although, transgender herself she's highly critical of the current movement. They didnt like that. Her opinion has evolved and changed on most issues because the issues themselves have changed.

[@PrivateHandle.14]

She’s not transgender- she’s gay.

[@strnglhld]

@@susansmith493 She literally supports NAMBLA. I’ll pass.

[@RashaunMichelle]

Same. Maybe request from his daughter. She helps manage his career.

[@socialcommentary1014]

@@strnglhld Her support of NAMBLA was at a time when the organization presented itself as less praxis and more theory. That is, she supported lowering the age of consent to 14 (as it is in Germany) mainly in recognition of certain arguments regarding pregnancy and disease. At the time she supported NAMBLA, the organization had made a very cogent case for lowering the age of consent, noting that this was keeping pregnancy and HIV transmission rates low in Germany by fostering honesty between young teens and their parents regarding sexual activity. She has since renounced her previous stance and argued for stricter punishments of pedophiles.

[@GoodKarma22]

This is first time I’ve heard of Camille Paglia. This was an amazing interview and discussion. I listen to Jordan Peterson all the time now. He is a treasure. I’m so grateful to have found him. Thank you both for your brilliant minds.

[@rmth9827]

Her book Sexual Personae is excellent. She also has articles published in various magazines, before they became woke.

[@dripstein6130]

@@SexuallyRepressedMegalodon agreed

[@tiffaniterris2886]

@@SexuallyRepressedMegalodon lmao, nobody knows who she is. JP is asked to have talks at the best universities on the planet and is knowns worldwide. Gtfoh.

[@blurtling]

I just watcher her on Politically Correct with Bill Maher from either the 90s or early aughts, pretty cool lady. Great sense of humor. It's on YT as of yesterday.

[@patrickstarshooter5221]

@@SexuallyRepressedMegalodon An intellectual icon who wants men to have sex with young boys? Get your head read.

[@grymr34per]

I've watched this countless times. Jordan obviously has the utmost respect for Camille, particularly displayed in the inspiration she provided for Maps of Meaning, and Camille in turn cannot stop nodding anytime Jordan speaks. Such mutual respect from two amazingly intelligent and inspirational professors. Camille is so cute at the end "We agree on eeeeverything! I knew it!!"

[@xxxpyrosxxx]

Grym Reaper i want more conflict.

[@mikeschneider1624]

Grym .. i agree 100% .. watching this religiously .. for the 3rd time .. best discussion i saw in 2017 .. agree with all your points.

[@mikeschneider1624]

Conflict is unnecessery here, its not like its getting boring just because they are on one page. They constantly inspire each other.

[@helenachase5627]

Could you say more about how Camille influenced or inspired Jordan's maps of meaning ? I've never heard tjis

[@JusColeYT]

Jordan Peterson knew what he wanted to learn, had questions prepared, and even formulated new ones as the discussion continued. His absolute intention to learn is clearly observable when he’s listening. He pays close attention, and really soaks in the words. Getting the privilege to speak to someone who would find you that fascinating, as well as know the potential knowledge you may contribute to his own would be a blessing to me man. Love Jordan! -Cole

[@mikexhotmail]

He (sub-consciously) switched in to "psychologist mode" while listening to her? ps. She surely is a really special subject to analyze. I mean her content is awesome but what behind it is what make people like Peterson to really paying attention.

[@petrapalusova]

This conversation is a work of art itself. Complex concepts divinely carried out by intellectual equals in such a manner that made me have goosebumps. Bravo!

[@bukwheet12]

Every high school student should watch this. The art of true human conversation. I am watching this 4 years after the fact and both of these Dr.'s are truly prophetic

[@elsonbranch9k519]

ñb7

[@ChaineYTXF]

@@elsonbranch9k519 a very potent argument

[@ilfautdanser9121]

understanding the past allows you to see much of the future

[@desireesmith862]

As a high school student myself I am not unfamiliar with the ideas presented in this but just hearing them discussed by these two extremely competent minds brings me so much joy. I would share it with my “friends” but the reality is they just wouldn’t watch it and would just say I was weird as they’ve done countless times over.

[@h.e.pennypacker4567]

“We’re living in the dilusional fantasy of a naive 13 year old girl” Priceless. 👌🏻

[@TSC36999]

Mk Ultra/The Plan= disassociate away from reality, act as I train you to act...

[@johnlmcgary]

Totally stolen.

[@annabellee2703]

*Delusional ✌👍

[@justanotherhuman1865]

True, but a reason for delusional fantasy with allure to control might come from escape to a "traumatic" reality. We aren't listening.

[@gerbmac]

great rational point - oh wait nothing of the sort

[@kingofthehamsters]

This is probably my favourite discussion with Peterson involved. When he meets someone as passionate and hyper verbal as himself.

[@mufasao6776]

kingofthehamsters Yep, I keep coming back to this video, I just love her appreciation for history in relation to these topics. Here's another fantastic discussion: kzbin.info/www/bejne/i6PHYXyBZbx4jbc

[@taunokekkonen5733]

The one with Russell Brands is good as well.

[@Archetype77]

Do you think that Jordan Peterson promotes pedophilia and child pronography like Camille does? you know since she loves Allen Ginsberg and NAMBLA?

[@valgag0]

Alex woooooo you got me thinking!

[@ohno1706]

@@valgag0 She's a very intelligent and learned whacko.

[@ericgoldstein4734]

What a great conversation! These two are so sharp, thoughtful and well informed… If only we could spread the idea of using them as exemplars.

[@davidcampbell7831]

I've probably watched this a half dozen times, and each time pull more out of this discussion. Also take note of how deeply Peterson is listening to Paglia, even with her firecracker delivery. He's 100% present.

[@valgag0]

David Campbell She is a firecracker. When i first listened to her 30 years ago .....i was bewildered by her presence. She was brutal. Still young. Maybe 45. I understood and shared deeply her “take” on the world of ideas. They used to refer to her as a red Lamborghini. Now, I come from a political/ eco/ international relations back ground. I am part of the French culture and was educated by them. Had to read Derida, Foucault and Lancan in school....but still never had the balls to go and talk to her. She was that intimidating. Perterson is much younger than her. And he gives her respect due.

[@johnboykin3128]

She is not hard to follow. While she is passionate and intense, she is also focused logical eloquent interesting fair and impartial. This makes the listener feel nourished and inspired, rather than poisoned insulted and ultimately bored and annoyed.

[@lucysweeney8347]

David,you nailed it..Camille Paglia most certainly does have a firecracker delivery.She makes excellent points imo.and has taught me so much.Thank you for that.

[@kristianpetersen6506]

You haven’t seen it more than twice

[@daddydad9018]

Their CNN's are remarkably different. She is the classic highly emotional female while he is the classic man almost in a trance listening to her every word.

[@kamcobbe]

My gosh, this interaction is absurdly delightful and fascinating

[@Interfect727]

or just absurd.

[@calebbrown4187]

I completely agree. I had previously viewed Camille Paglia as somewhat of an ideological adversary of Peterson, but they actually compliment each other nicely as they build upon each other's point. I never thought I could agree with an athiest, lesbian, liberal intellectual on so many points.

[@chadfolzenlogel8739]

@@Interfect727 wtf are you talking about? Opposed to facts and reason, I guess.

[@Interfect727]

@@chadfolzenlogel8739 I don't really know what the hell I was talking about. I think I posted to the wrong video!

[@Johnconno]

Golly!

[@danamorales2427]

I loved this so much it made me cry. Watched it with my friend and we had to stop it every couple of minutes because we got so enthusiastic we had to discuss all of the fascinating and complex topics they brought up.

[@saintejeannedarc9460]

I'm the same way. Drives my bf nuts. He's not a multi tasker, at all, and likes to just watch something all the way through, w/ no distraction or interruption to his attention span. I'm the ultimate female multi tasker, w/ the attention span of a small soap dish and I love to fractionate, discuss, get off into tangents and then bring it right back. I need a chick who thinks more like me and doesn't bark when I want to pause and discuss. It's mostly men that are interested in these two though.

Good to both you and St.Jeanne. What did you think about the point made about SANE women helping to fix this mess?

[@robotmilker]

Aw, that sounds like something I would absolutely love! :-) Unfortunately, none of my friends seem to have any interest in these subject matters! I might have to go find myself an open hangout, skype buddy or something along that way!

[@Beny123]

You have got friends who want to discuss that ? You lucky ...

[@tomjames1976]

Holly Lindquist bb

[@mihailspil-haufter]

This is an excellent talk and I mean it. One of the best interviews / idea exchange on social/sociological/ psychological/cultural and political topics I've heard in the last 40-50 years. Is witty without being pretentious. Honest, direct, elegant and brutal in the same time , that's the mark of genuine intelligent humans.

[@kimberlygolden7095]

I started listening to Jordan Peterson because I was on a quest to learn about opposing points of view. Turns out he is quite compelling and has helped me open up to new perspectives. The worst part is my friends and family have not been on this journey with me. Questioning the status quo is not always well received.

[@spz598]

👍 keep doing you. Sending best.

[@lindseyroy1629]

I’ve had exactly the same experiences. I checked out JP to see an opposing point of view, and I started to question so many things I had accepted as true. Like you, people did not take kindly to my questioning what they see as truth.

[@JackDSquat]

@@lindseyroy1629 yes it’s difficult to undo one’s thinking after years of indoctrination and only hearing one perspective. Or at least that’s how it was for me

[@FoxinTaiwan]

Another loner on this journey here. We're more than we actually think but we're fragmented.

[@TheSanityMachine33]

Jordan Peterson is a leftist UN/NWO puppet on the world STAGE... Paglia is a NAMBLA/pedo supporter....... both of them sold their souls for fame and fortune long ago....

[@CappaGTC]

We're having this for free... when it's priceless.

[@orriolbohigas591]

Yes, and it should have a billion views....

[@MrAnonymous1515]

Don't worry. I pay 15$ a month so you can enjoy KZbin for free.

[@Jide-bq9yf]

Lil David you say that only because you’re a connoisseur , in a world that’s long forgotten fine wine .

[@tubemankiwi]

@@orriolbohigas591 Should have ,could have, would have. The three pointless statements.

[@orriolbohigas591]

@@tubemankiwi Well, thanks for the added redundancy of your comment.

[@jamescox1375]

My respect for Peterson is growing rapidly. He is a genuine intellect. My love for Camille is of that generational sort which understands what she fights for. Her intellect is personally endearing. This exchange quickly became conversational and was perhaps one of the most enlightening pieces I have listened to in years. My hat is off to the two of you. We are fortunate that you have found your respective voices and have the courage and wisdom to continue and attempt influence. Your incredible honesty and years of striving for that 'deeper understanding' has purchased my lifelong support and admiration!

[@JackLanterns]

Been watching Peterson for a while now myself and would have to agree that this one's a doozey for certain!!

[@BettsnBill]

Have the same thought...maybe there is still hope!

[@seBcopTer]

James Cox The true intellects of our time. The future will remember them for this.

[@LordSantiagor]

Yes!! The way out of this mess is very informed people taking a solid stance that people with common sense can follow.

[@illuminachristos]

This is the most refreshingly intelligent and eloquent discussion about men and women I think Ive ever had the pleasure of listening to.

[@TheArchetypalist]

"The neo-marxism at universities is simply a lazy way to assert multiculuralism without actually doing the research and the study of other cultures" - Dr Camille Paglia

[@Danko_Sekulic]

How true! This is why we cannot create a successful multicultural society in an environment where most people are utterly ignorant of other cultures.

[@motorax11]

Sunk the hoop with the closing statement.

[@stevenrichardson1843]

Well spotted by her, and by you, I missed that and it's brilliant .

[@albiboy1599]

@@Danko_Sekulic That's the result when you approach other cultures with the only purpose of escaping from your own.

[@TheSanityMachine33]

Jordan Peterson is a leftist UN/NWO puppet on the world STAGE... Paglia is a NAMBLA/pedo supporter....... both of them sold their souls for fame and fortune long ago....

[@kiltmaster7041]

Jordan Peterson: "Hello." Camille Paglia: 20 minutes of passionate oration. Jordan Peterson: "Yes." Camille Paglia: 14 minutes of passionate oration. Jordan Peterson: "Agreed." Camille Paglia has a talent for rants.

[@ohno1706]

Agreed.

[@lucysweeney8347]

Wonder if Sam Harris has ever interviewed Camille Piaglia??That I would love to know.I love to listen to both of them.Also Malcolm Gladwell.

[@alphamorion4314]

It's wonderful to witness. Basically the ONE time in wich I've seen Dr. Jordan Peterson NOT taking the 95% of the 'rant' time

[@designthinkingwithgian]

When you're that enlightened and are witness to a mad world, I don't blame her for her passion 😅

[@valentinocaruso9282]

i came here to make the same coment

[@giordanopagotto7940]

I can't believe this video exists... Two of of the people I admire the most, having such a profound conversation... This deserves a full transcription and analysis.

[@maxkeefe8286]

This.

[@kerenzafour]

And from so different backgrounds, left and classic liberalism.

[@xabhinavvijay1151]

Such a profound conversation. One of the most brilliant and forthright women I have ever come across. These kinds of conversations make me feel grateful for having technology that allows me to connect and learn from great minds worldwide.

[@YuyiLeal]

Camille's message to women: "It's when men are men...then you're going to be happy." So on point! Brilliant!

[@kleinbottled79]

Let's face it, they still won't be 'happy.' But they will be able to blame men for being men more effectively, which will make them a little happier.

[@YuyiLeal]

Lol

[@captaintac3115]

She is a lesbian right? And she still has to point it out for women to understand

[@lemortedbrian6070]

@@captaintac3115 she is somehow both transgender and gay

[@Noname-hs5lx]

Yuyi Leal exactly

[@Bkrushinskie]

Jordan Peterson says “lions take down the identifiable animals... academics use language to hide within a system” - brilliant!

[@Will-gm4bk]

@Alena Zelentskaya Peterson was saying that the academics are using the animalistic trait of using camo to hide in a group through language to protect themselves and others from criticism. By not being identified by sticking out, they aren't being hunted.

[@joshuabroyles7565]

Racists pretend to be music theorists.

[@joshuabroyles7565]

@@Scotsmanic69 The wings are shown only to give a sense of proportion.

[@papershark]

Camille Paglia was my Jordan Peterson when I was at university (around 2000). Love her to bits!

[@Bob-jm8kl]

I read Sexual Personae in 1993. She's been a favorite ever since. Her ideas are also easier to digest by text rather than her trademark machine gun speech.

[@YouAintGotNoTegridyBoi]

@Kirsten Eklund get over your feelings and socialise.

[@KR-nv3ru]

I just found out that Paglia supports the disgusting NAMBLA. *I feel betrayed that she doesn't talk about it openly.* Because I know for a fact that she would lose ALL support if she did. Pedophilia is NOT okay. 🤢

[@Jide-bq9yf]

Bob I think she writes beautifully too . Her staccato speaking style isn’t surprising,. Afterall she’s never been anything other than a tireless warrior for the body and a champion of direct lived experience .

[@warrenclark7982]

Camille has to be a unicorn as an intellectual and identifying as a trans. I wonder if women see her as an imposter.

[@anastasiakallinic]

This is a conversation that resonates so much for me and my reality of the world. I'm glad I discovered it, and makes me feel less alone in my values and beliefs.

[@lanecore75]

Yes indeed. I can't agree more. We have to believe there are many more of us who are grounded in reality than the extreme left would have us believe. Facts over feelings.

[@westfieldartworks8188]

I've watched this video twice. I don't think I could ever grow tired of listening to these two brilliant minds.

[@gagamcgagaface5631]

Wow my brain hurts .

[@antimitsu]

I came for Jordan Peterson. I stayed for Camille Paglia.

[@RobertJamesChinneryH]

check.

[@davidmarcucci3388]

So how much you willing to pay? It's for meth not this rando

[@DrWizardMother]

True story. First time I had heard of her. I'm impressed.

[@mikroman1818]

And i quote -"Okaay"

[@vectorequilibrium5839]

Why not not appreciating what both have to offer? They agree anyway if you notice.

[@DemonRuby]

I've genuinely liked Mr Peterson for some time now and I have just recently discovered Dr Paglia. This video is like my dream come true :D

[@mufasao6776]

Natalie Scabbia I haven't watched too much of Paglia but her talk at the Seattle library was kinda interesting, she has utter appreciation for history and how fundamental it is to education.

[@Bob-jm8kl]

I'm the other way around. I read Sexual Personae in 1993 and have been a Paglia fan since.

[@mufasao6776]

@rockster10101 Usually I would agree with you, I'm not a feminism either after the surge of identity politics in like 1990, but I wouldn't go as far as that. There is some beauty in today's feminism, take this for example. There was a study that put screening in front of orchestra auditions to try and eliminate gender bias, and it worked and got more females into orchestra. That's the kind of feminism that I find beautiful.

[@mufasao6776]

@rockster10101 You missed my point man, I specifically gave an example of the kind of feminism that isn't using force to put more vaginas in government office, for example. There's zero harm in making orchestra auditions blind because it reduces the very real gender bias. No quotas, no dividing identity politics, no force, and that's why the merit based type of feminism like the one I described is a beautiful thing.

[@lhn2370]

Mufasa O I agree that was a very interesting study and a good example. A counter example of bad feminism is an experiment that was performed where a group of women had prosthetic scars applied to their face. They were asked to talk about the treatment they received in the interview. Before leaving for said interview, the scars were removed under the guise of a quick touch up. Many of those women reported they were unfairly treated because of their (non existent) scarring and felt oppressed.

[@darkmaitri]

I wrote a comment response to this video three years ago. Listening to it again now. And I must say this is one of my favorite interviews Jordan does. I don't know how others may interpret it, because I was immersed in these analyses in school. So for me it is supremely enlightening. Thank you Jordan for seeking her out and then uploading the video.

[@maloreyhenderson9101]

I love this. My experience with university was horrible, and I wasn’t mature enough in my opinions to really understand. I remember sitting in classes thinking this feels like a competition to be the most radical towards ideology. I felt uncomfortable and stupid actually because I thought there was something wrong with me. I’m so happy to see these two speak, it’s spot on. As usual, Peterson articulates what I knew to be true but couldn’t express.

[@alpha6549]

Well i had that same problem but in middle and high school Pointing at me the teachers always pinpointed every breath i took

[@aryasayne]

What subject were you doing?

[@Steven1Cicero]

"As usual, Peterson articulates what I knew to be true but couldn’t express." This is the problem that is expressed throughout this entire conversation, If I was a student in todays Academic academy I would be demanding a refund! It's no wonder Bernie Sanders is advocating for a free collage education. And this is with the term you get what you paid for in mind!

[@stevenrichardson1843]

That's moving. It wasn't you it was them x

[@Bee-gg5mk]

I kinda get this yeah. I always found that if your opinion was divergent from the mainstream radical left you would be aggressively questioned and brow beaten with guilt trips on the discussion. I have always tried to maintain an open mind and consider myself a centre thinking person. I also like being able to truly understand the views of those I disagree and like having my ideas challenged as I consider that a valid route to constructive dialogue but this was almost impossible to achieve when ideas were shot down with aggression before fully formed and when assumptions were made of my meaning without fully listening.

[@toni_smith]

This is a fantastic conversation. I am currently studying postgrad psychology in New Zealand and even here our faculties are dominated by postmodernism and critical approach as some kind of fundamental truth and it's very frustrating, to the point where it feels like you can't disagree with it. Very pleased to come across this - Camille Paglia is a great example of what feminism should be (or should have remained).

[@MCE851]

In NZ too, but avoided the unis for this reason, my condolences . Read her book Sexual Personae if you havent already

[@stevenrichardson1843]

Get the qualification Antonia, say what they want you to say, then that can't be taken away and you can call bullshit with authority that many of us don't have.

[@itsjim2875]

Indeed. I believe Camille is quite wonderful. I have especially enjoyed watching some of her videos on 3rd-wave feminism.

[@oliverread1060]

to understand postmodernism and post structuralism you need to understand relativism and the way they view truth as fluid (this is the most simplistic form of both post modernism and post structuralism). Therefore by your comment, you kind of misunderstand it as postmodernists argue that truth is completely subjective. This comment I made doesn't explain postmodernism but it does refute yours as a misunderstanding of what its core concept stands for

[@Black_pearl_adrift]

Camille is a feminists’ feminist. She just gets it no bs no frills.

[@Cronos-ms3pw]

Few people can talk so fast while making sense all the way through, good show.

[@hoolialynn26]

It's hard for me to believe this was 7 hears ago. I first watched this as a very new mom; I was reconstructing my worldview after seriously struggling to adjust to the reality of motherhood. I had a few therapy sessions, but they were not in our family budget long term. Watching Jordan Peterson talk about the human condition was as close as I could get. This was the start of a very healthy journey for me. Thank you Doctor Peterson.

[@Lattakeoff]

I say this with the greatest respect ... I can see JP's almost childlike admiration for her intellect and conviction ... love this conversation

[@sharonaldridge3332]

I don't quite buy that. He had a list of questions to get in some where in the midst of her many words. Too, he was listening to the content and working to see an end of a point or points she was making to interject what he had to say, AND watching her the way he so often does. ( It's part of listening to clients or patients. ) Watching this, you see how he addresses what she has said, and may put it into other words to let her know he understood what she was saying. That's what I think.

[@Johnconno]

He's a good actor...

[@cindylcooley]

Without a doubt, this is one of the most brilliant conversations I've ever had the pleasure to listen to. Thank you, JBP, for bringing these high-quality conversations to us.

[@ThinkBeforeYouSleepYT]

Camille Paglia's default speed is 1.5x.

[@AndRew-vo9bz]

Man your all over my KZbin these days!!

[@OniNoFro]

And that's before she gets passionate.

[@whoiscapybara]

Laughed for 5 minutes... still she is a 0.5x ben shapiro

[@beerosaurusrex]

Her cadence and use of "okay" reminds me of Quentin Tarantino.

[@crrist]

LOL I actually checked the speed at the beginning of the video.

[@ericah6546]

Camille Paglia is amazing. I'm binging videos of her being interviewed right now. ❤

[@dischargeconductor7305]

Same ❤

[@conanthegreat4418]

She is BRILLIANT and fearless.

[@thematsc]

When Sinead o'Connor tore apart a picture of the pope on national TV in 1992, as a statement to what the catholic church had done to hide information off priests abuse of children (something the pope knew about) Camille Paglia said that Sinead o'Connor deserved to be abused as a child. I have had a very hard time to take this woman seriously after that comment.

[@calohtar]

H O L Y S H I T This is legendary. Camille Paglia was the very first intellectual I encountered after I learned about Foucault and was struggling to formulate exactly what I found troubling about him. She's been a thorn in the side of postmodernism and PC culture for over 20 years now. A truly strange and singular personality. Her main academic work deals with art, and her thoughts on culture are truly thought provoking, not to mention vigorous and entertaining. Out of all the thinkers of our time, these two grapple with the fundamentals of humanness and the long arc of history more deeply than anyone else I've encountered. Timeless ideas. This is a bright spot on a very dark day.

[@Bobedragon]

Very well said!

[@annapohuly1423]

calohtar a rare public intellectual who isn't a coward.

[@jankuiper3422]

I understand how it can be a pain to formulate problems with Foucault. I have trouble formulating what Foucault is actually stating; let alone critiquing it. I'm not unintelligent, I read Hegel and apply myself to a lot of areas within philosophy. However; everytime I get to french post-modern thinking, it takes me about three times as much time and effort to read and "understand" them. It's like they intentionally obfuscate things. So I might just take the easy route and read Paglia as well. This is some of the first stuff I see from her. But man, her ability to verbalise complex issues seems to be topnotch. So thanks for the information, that will come in handy.

[@WowThereBuddy1]

I actually think Foucault has some valid points but her criticisms of him are excellent. His idea that power dynamics will never change within people's internal conscious regardless if the entire societal system around them changes is a striking attack on Marxism despite him frequently sympathizing with their positions.

[@calohtar]

Jan Kuiper My TLDR of Foucault: power influences the world in subtle ways, especially in realms ostensibly governed by other factors. Everything that you think is caused by something else is in fact caused by power if you really think about it. Foucault is adept at presenting his position. I was quite struck by him because his explanations were plausible yet deeply dissatisfying. I found the reduction of things like art and beauty to mere offshoots of power to be a viscerally offensive interpretation, not to mention at odds with my own experience. And yet I found it hard to spot errors in his thought when applied to society as a whole. I eventually saw a Peterson clip where he criticizes Foucault on the basis of monomania. Essentially, Peterson acknowledges that power is an obviously significant factor but rejects Foucault's power-centric thinking as a simplistic and impoverished way to understand the world. That's about where I currently stand: Foucault isn't necessarily wrong, but he is insufficient. The experience taught me a general lesson on truth. A system may be logically consistent yet lacking in scope. Also, I learned to appreciate how multiple factors can coexist in a problem, like how biological and social factors are both relevant in understanding gender. Or how there can be racist incidents without it being institutionalized, or how you can have institutionalized sexism within certain groups/contexts without having an out and out patriarchy. Along the way, I realized that nearly any philosophical position could be profitably exploited if you threw enough brainpower at it. This made me more humble about chasing my own ideas. Logical consistency is no substitute for truth, not when the axioms themselves may be flawed or incomplete. I took little from Camille in terms of post-structuralist criticism. It was mainly the emotional support I felt, that a competent mind shared my discomfort and had the balls to denounce my "enemies." Living in a far left bubble, I had begun to see postmodernism as an inevitable arc of history. Camille gave me the confidence to challenge this grand narrative. I'm far more influenced by her cultural commentary though. Transformed my view of religion and the artistic life.

[@anonymouse2888]

Why are these two not known as the hero and heroine of our generation? It's tragically unfortunate that what these two are saying takes martyr level bravery. Thank you Jordan and Camille for voicing the sentiments that I am not educated enough to articulate concisely.

[@Deebo1985]

Because the world is more interested in what Kim Kardashian had for lunch

[@averagefemale3731]

@@Deebo1985 I don't know whether to laugh or cry about that.

[@BerniceWonderdog]

I hope we hear more from them.

[@TheLkoler]

Simply superb! And so refreshing to see someone with a normal and rational mind. Paglia is a force of nature, a woman with character, panache and utter disdain for the middlebrow elites who have too much power in our world.

[@paulvail7863]

I’m blown away hearing these two intellectual giants so succinctly expressing in words the things that I have been feeling/experiencing yet unable or perhaps just afraid to articulate. What a relief to know that I am not crazy or out of touch. It is only natural that social mores change and adapt through the generations. But no great society will survive for long when it insists on shattering the pillars on which it stands.

[@LucasAlves-er6py]

I'm from Brazil. We are currently living a cultural and political disaster. Everytime I listen to Jordan Peterson and Camille Paglia, I feel like I'm breathing freedom. It's so therapeutic that gives me hope. Our generation have lived such a chaotic culture that I think it's more than expected that we have so much people living with depressive disorder. I'm just blessed to have encountered the solution of my problems: to stop relying simply on logical thinking and stop fighting with my true nature. I think Jung was right about a lot of things and I think, as a brazilia, we are priviliged to have indegenous people as the guardians of our land and our culture. Thank you, Jordan Peterson, for giving me western culture references to rationally verify my intuition.

[@fastandfluent]

Yeap! The same indegenous people want to emancipate from NGOs and political tyranny on their land. They want to use their land to plant, produce, grow, harvest and educate themselves independently, but either corrupt leftist members of congress or the NGOs themselves would just not let that happen. Why is that? Cause in the areas where this has already happened, they have no way of controlling their thinking, therefore they'll never be able to dictate their actions, and most importantly, they will have to find a real job for themselves. Ops, lots of them do not even know what real work is. Research FUNAI and the presence of the NGOs (national and, especially, intenational) on the indegenous lands of your own country, mate. You will find out why they're still killing their sick children and living under extreme poverty line. They are everything but "guardians of our land and our culture".

[@lucasvalmotta]

Um conterrâneo, xará e lúcido. É impossível parar de assistir esses vídeos. Eles alimentam a minha alma e atenuam a solidão pela loucura que ocorre ao redor. "Tudo em volta induz à loucura, ao infantilismo...". Me chama no instagram, meu velho! Não estamos sozinhos. @lucasvalmotta

[@hachimanhikigaya2451]

O desastre político e cultura foi causado pela esquerda globalista.

[@nick_32412]

this conversation reminds me how brilliant human beings are

[@mynamewhatis7254]

@Robert Slack It is called giving the devil his due ;D

[@romanshibilski7093]

@Robert Slack okay Robert, make an “iron man” of post modernism....

[@kerenzafour]

Yes, this! One of the more memorable conversations I have ever witnessed.

[@caralho5237]

@Robert Slack Post-modernism is this group of perverse ideas about humanity with the intent to demoralize individuals by generalizing and categorizing them into groups based on their most superficial traits

[@DarknessProphet]

@Robert Slack Then offer something of value. This "Wrong. Wrong. Your this. Your that." is why it is said that postmodernists tear down while being incapable of building anything of value. So far all you attempted to do was tearing down others while coming off as vacuous.

[@trina8350]

My son had a female teacher corner him in the weight room and yell at him. He in turn yelled back. Now he was also pumped up lifting weights. He is in Grade 11 at the time and is about 6’ tall. The teacher then went to the principal and my Son had to take a three hour class on how to be less masculine. He came home after his class and I told him to completely unlearn everything they just tried to teach him. The female teacher was wrong and he responded like anyone would. She became scared of this big scary man/boy, and felt that he had to be more like her because he was too big and scary. That is completely ludicrous. She had no right to do what she did. And i also explained to my Son that because he is larger he has to make sure not to scare women smaller than him in general, but that there was nothing wrong with being a big strong man. If in an emergency that same woman would be running to big strong man for protection. It is absolute bullshit as a mother to watch how much they are trying to take away my Son’s masculinity!

[@luciavaughn3793]

Keep up the good fight, Miss Trina! Your son is going to be a fine man. I have three hulking brothers and my parents taught them well.🖖

[@jhonnycultura4455]

indocrination, they are telling us what to say, believe or act. they are doing the same with women, maybe they are pushing too much females to be more masculine so they can compete with us thats why so many are becoming lesbians cause they want to get into a masculine role in the relationships which in a heterosexual they cant and a male that is femenine or submissive is not atractive. they trying so hard to be seen as equal to men that they start dating women cause they can do things in those type of relationships that they could not do with a man.

[@REDMICRADIO]

Boys are expected to Socialize and function like females.

[@get_delete1195]

'murca

[@stevethompson210]

You sound like an excellent mother!

[@barbararussell9757]

Great discussion! I have sent this to friends and would like to recommend it far and wide. Camille Paglia is my generation and she describes the situation at East Coast universities in the early 70's PERFECTLY.

[@acn82F]

Fantastic conversation! Her lucidity is impeccable! And I loved her criticism on Foucault. This video should be presented to every sociology teacher!

[@j0eterhune]

God I love Camille. If you REALLY want to know what's wrong with society today just ask, she will set you straight with blazing speed.

[@leopardosss]

To the 60´s...

[@TheSanityMachine33]

Jordan Peterson is a leftist UN/NWO puppet on the world STAGE... Paglia is a NAMBLA/pedo supporter....... both of them sold their souls for fame and fortune long ago....

[@Psycorde]

This woman is so passionate, knowledgeable and well-versed! I can't help but admire her

[@Psycorde]

Let her rip! She is a Beyblade of an intellectual! I know, that must've been the worst sentence you've read all day, dear stranger.

[@reneelazzareschi9953]

If you love what she says about art, history, and narrative, you might want to check this out next from Fred Ross with the Art Renewal Center: www.artrenewal.org/Article/Title/abstract-art-is-not-art

[@double-you5130]

yeah i believe that too but i do not like ho many times she says "OK"

[@ColonPal]

Paglia is a radical feminist and incredible Patriot and Liberal! At least Peterson recognizes her genius, but she despises him. Thanks

[@ColonPal]

Gayle Elizabeth She doesn’t defend him at all. She is just going along because he paid her to try and give himself legitimacy. He’s an idiot, just another TRIGGERED whining ‘angry white guy’. And you know it.

[@mehran1201]

I learnt and enjoyed every second of this conversation. For many reasons I couldn't have this opportunity to further my education at tertiary level; nevertheless, I probably wouldn't have had such chance to better myself as I can now by listening to such exceptional thinkers. Madam professor Paglia, you certainly are a credit to the human science and studies, a role model for not only women but also men, I cannot thank you enough ma'am. Dr. Peterson, you are, as usual, the father of this fatherless generation, thank you sir for everything you have given us.

[@PhilipCau]

Well said…

[@TomWilson]

This is a treasure, and I devoured and loved every minute. Thank you.

[@NicolasIbarra]

same here...

[@missymiss2357]

Tom Wilson So DITTO!!!

[@mikemoore4033]

“patriarchy “ is the ultimate conspiracy theory; no evidence needed or supplied.

[@mertdokur87]

that sounds kinda naughty.

[@NicolasIbarra]

mabaker great argument and facts... let me guess... a postmodernist?

[@lukehanaike5889]

Incredible. Two intellectual titans of the modern world talking. Its gonna be a bumpy ride

[@belascialoja4812]

It's now possible to get a bachelor's in English literature from Yale and _never read Shakespeare or Chaucer_ . That's how far the termites have gnawed and how richly they've dined.

[@johnw8984]

College has turned into a check this BOX pit stop.

[@Tamarocker88]

Makes me appreciate the fact that I read Shakespeare and Chaucer when I was in high school in the early 2000's. I wonder if high schools are also getting rid of classic teachings that I had, historical or otherwise.

[@sebastianquezada6374]

Some "sciences" don't even believe in the scientific method nowadays...

[@drspastic]

Shakespeare can exit persued by bear for all i care

[@theaterofsouls]

lol... really

[@g.s.3450]

One of Jordan's best interviews, a real joy to watch!