Air Conditioners - Single Stage vs. Dual Stage vs. VRF (Mini Split) - Sizing and Dehumidification

Go check out www.mtcopeland.com for more in depth training videos taught by the experts in the field.
What is the difference between a single stage, two stage and variable refrigerant flow air conditioners, how are they sized, and how do they dehumidify?
A single stage compressor has a single speed. It is either off or cooling at max capacity and fan speed. The advantage of this system is its low cost, but the disadvantages are the difficulty in proper sizing, resulting in either underperformance or short cycling, and temperature swings as the unit cycles on and off.
A two stage compressor has two speeds for both the compressor and fans. It can switch between off, low and high depending on the heat load. Sizing becomes slightly easier with these units as they have more ability to match their output to the demand, but oversizing and short cycling are still a concern, especially as houses are better insulated and built tighter. They cost significantly more than single stage units, and their higher efficiency ratings are rarely realized in application.
A variable refrigerant flow system is able to adjust it's output from around 20% to 100% in as little as 1% increments. This allows a system to run at it's optimum setting to maintain a even temperature through the home. Because it is running more of the time, it avoids the tremendous power consumption required at start up, improving efficiency as well as gaining the ability to more effectively dehumidify.
I have installed several cheap VRF mini-split systems in my secondary buildings. I have had good luck with this one so far: amzn.to/3dvx4vl (I get paid if you buy through my link. Thanks!)
However, in the hot, humid south, a separate whole home dehumidifier is recommended regardless of the AC system. A separate dehumidifier can concentrate on only maintaining humidity levels, and the AC can concentrate on only maintaining temperature. I like Aprilaire dehumidifiers - amzn.to/3j6eP0l (I get paid if you buy through my link. Thanks!)

[@ae1ae2]

Thank you, talking about the relative costs is really helpful. I understand people don't like talking prices, but the relative ballparks (if X costs 1, then Y costs about 2 and Z costs about 4) are really helpful as a first layer of understanding.

[@PunjabiBoi37]

Thank you for saving me so much headache! This all makes perfect sense now. I never understood the humidity aspect and now it's all coming together. Appreciate you immensely!!!

[@s.j.5850]

The absolute best description of residential A/C units. Clear, concise, & no extra opinions.

[@i.b.blithe3263]

Thank you Jordon. This makes perfect sense. I am a retired electrical engineer. My father had a HVAC service company. I enjoyed and understand your presentation. It meets the KISS principle (keep it simple stupid) and is technically correct.

[@chuckmcvicker2353]

Jordan, I appreciate the way you take on an issue by discussing pros and cons and giving your opinion without over selling one solution. Thanks.

[@JordanSmithBuilds]

Thanks, Chuck!

[@mackgerardo4152]

sorry to be off topic but does any of you know a way to log back into an instagram account?? I was dumb lost my password. I would appreciate any help you can give me.

[@aydinhudson2280]

@Mack Gerardo Instablaster =)

[@mackgerardo4152]

@Aydin Hudson Thanks so much for your reply. I got to the site thru google and im waiting for the hacking stuff now. I see it takes a while so I will get back to you later with my results.

[@mackgerardo4152]

@Aydin Hudson It worked and I finally got access to my account again. I am so happy:D Thank you so much you saved my account :D

[@boby115]

I was getting ready to load my ammunition before watching your video but I have to admit I was pleasantly surprised after watching. Been in the field of HVAC for over 37 years & found your information to be very accurate. I concur, I am more of a fan of a single stage unit ( less problematic then two stage and VFRs) with an Aprilaire whole house dehumidifier. Get a good contractor, size the equipment and ductwork properly and life will be good.

[@cranbers]

sad thing is 37 years in this industry is like 37 years in the car industry. Cars or HVAC systems today especially variable / vrv systems are basically a whole new animal. Have to have a degree in electrical engineering and small electronics to work on the new ones. In something like a DAikin VRV life system the outdoor unit has internals that rivals a super computer with 18 inch circuit boards full of capacitors and chips. It stops working with a code even following the shooting flow chart its a heat scratcher whats wrong as you wait for Daikin support to chime in and wait for the part to come in via ups, with a 50/50 shot that is even the issue.

[@boby115]

@@cranbers , luckily for me I’m retired and the only systems I need to worry about are my own and my children’s. I’m gonna leave it to the new technicians to learn 2 stage, VRFs,VRVs , inverters, communicating control systems, the latest and the greatest refrigerants (not so sure about greatest) and anything else the engineers may come up with.

[@anthonymaples7264]

Well done, Great presentation

[@MonsterNewfie]

I was listening very carefully to the words and phrases you used. I can't argue with it.

[@jordanlip112]

Always good info brother. Keep it up

[@meltsnowflakes2893]

Gotta have good return air flow. The lack of transfer air is a common problem in homes.. great vid 👌

[@mikeluongo537]

I love my Fujitsu mini with vrf tech. Elec bill was 150, now 75, and I never shut it off.

[@Fackletard]

Dual stage absolutely. It's a game-changer for comfort. I have had one for 7 years now, and coming for Home Energy Efficiency background, I would never go back to a single stage. Ever. (I live in Arizona and born/raised in Dallas, TX)

[@pilotrserra]

I had a dual system Trane variable speed for 20 years and every year something needed repair. I itemized the cost…I saved NOTHING because of small repairs every year. Simply over-engineered and a big con. This is about corporate greed - NOT efficiency

[@Fackletard]

@@pilotrserra Dual stage and variable speed are not the same.

[@bman6502]

Fackletard, I’m in California and trying to decide between single vs 2 stage.. I like the 2 stage but is it worth an additional $7k… vs a single stage

[@Fackletard]

@@bman6502 It depends. You have to first figure out your financial investment/situation and determine from there. If money isn't an issue and you have the excess money, 2 stage is my choice. Your comfort will thank you. Having cold air blowing longer in the summer will always render you a more comfortable atmosphere in your home vs more off time with a single stage. Comfort for us here in Phoenix, AZ - dual stage is better considering our heat waves get into the 119-120 degrees. If you are on a tight budget, I would just stick with a single stage. My best advice is to teach yourself about HVAC maintenance and learn how to fix issues that come up down the road yourself and save yourself a lot of time, money and frustration. But I digress. Again, if budget is not the concern, I would go with 2 stage every time. If you are on a strict budget, go with a single stage.

[@2centsworth766]

Thank you for the info. You cleared up a lot that was running through my brain.

[@cj4freedom856]

One stage works well in this house for the last few years, good advice.

[@trustmemysonisadoctor8479]

We own a large farm house that has been added on to. The original Rudd heat pump is 34 years old and runs like a champ. In the addition we have had 2 heat pumps in 25 years. The second one is a two stage unit that broke down on a yearly basis for the first ten years, it is now 12 years old. By broke down I mean two compressor, 2 or 3 a coils, multiple "computer boards". The last computer board caught fire, we were lucky the house did not burn down. Thank goodness we purchased the extended warranty so we never paid out of pocket for repairs. They just don't make them like they used to.

[@rdoc]

What brand was your two-stage unit that broke down all the time?

[@dougk7965]

Thank you for posting this video.

[@Phat737]

Thank you, very informative.

[@kelvinkiewiet1815]

Great job and video very helpful

[@averyalexander2303]

Interesting topic. I live down south and I'd personally rather have a VRF system than a dehumidifier. My VRF mini split dehumidifies very well since it runs almost constantly and is incredibly energy efficient. The same dehumidification could be accomplished with a single stage AC and a separate dehumidifier, but the power usage would be much higher. A dehumidifier is basically an AC unit that dumps its heat back into the building instead of dumping it outside, which is good in cooler weather to prevent overcooling but bad in hot weather where dumping that heat outside would be much better. I think the perfect solution would be an AC/dehumidifier combo unit (preferably VRF) with a separate reheat coil inside to redirect the necessary amount of heat back into the building to remove humidity without overcooling while still dumping the extra heat (or potentially all heat) outside depending on cooling and dehumidifying requirements. This way you are never paying to run a dehumidifier to recirculate heat back into the building as well as paying to run an AC unit to remove that heat. Unfortunately I'm not aware of anyone who makes these systems yet.

[@wcbscout]

I concur whole heartedly that designating a device for humidity separate from the heat and cooling device is best. Mini split for temp control and a stand-alone dehumidifier is an amazing and reasonable expense for a happy structure and occupants; adding fresh air ventilation control as well makes for top notch management air quality, along with temperature and vapor.

[@JordanSmithBuilds]

Well said!

[@ryanroberts1104]

People think I'm crazy, but I find a $100 window air conditioner makes one of the best "dehumidifiers" for use in warm weather. I put it in an extra room where I don't hear it, and it runs on low all summer. It removes the same amount of water as any other dehumidifier, but it also dumps the extra heat outside, so you save a little on air conditioning. My main single stage heat pump still cycles on and off, but not as frequently, and I can easily keep the humidity below 50%. (In NC) I also have it hooked up to a plug in humidistat from Amazon, only a few more bucks. With this "dehumidifier" I can be comfortable keeping the thermostat at 77, without it I need more like 70. Amazing difference it makes!

[@mikelliteras397]

Depends on where you live.

[@rdoc]

@@ryanroberts1104 I agree, I live in the south and I also run a small window air conditioner that keeps it so dry in here I have chapped lips. My heat pump is rarely needed.

[@jagslion3]

Another GREAT job from the camera lady!!!! LOL :-)

[@ryanroberts1104]

I like how you both acknowledge and explain ROI...unlike that "other guy" who clearly doesn't know how that works. "This heat pump is 3 years old, we have to replace it with a $27,000 VRF XPD GFCI RFI LKQ LNS Mitsubishi...so we can save money!"

[@JordanSmithBuilds]

Yeah, budgets are real. Sometimes we want the "best" and cost is of no concern. Other times (most of the time), there is a much higher value solution that performs phenomenally for the task at hand, while allowing room in the budget for other high value decisions.

[@alanr745]

Wow Jordan. Thanks for throwing in that energy cost value on your own house. That’s a rough number that I’ve been looking for...for years. I may contact you for more info once we find a builder in central AL that speaks hi-performance house/passive house/whatever will get me the building envelope I want. Lol

[@ryanroberts1104]

@@alanr745 It does seem to be rather hard to find rough numbers to play around with these days without doing a million calculations and calling some sales rep. I am amazed at his electric bill - mine is about the same in a bit over half the house size with less people! I think my power coop is ripping me off though....

[@tammy9964]

Thank you for your information.

[@nicholaspappas9712]

I am now thinking about adding split system for my bedrooms.

[@arturomilward3369]

Thank you for your help……… great help…….we live in a dryer desert area……single stage may be the way to go……thanks

[@tweake7175]

thats interesting. over here i have not seen a single stage for sale (at least in the major brands). they are almost all variable inverter units. i did see some 2 stage units but they where the old gas which is being phased out and i think the replacement is variable. the advantage of the 2 stage was that it could run a lower output than the variables. cost wise the 2 stage was about the same as the variable.

[@DNDZOLLER]

Of course I don’t have the knowledge you have but I can say my carrier unit in my home. It’s been going for 17 years with no problems 😎👍🏻

[@Inkling777]

Thanks for giving me an idea. I've got a portable dehumidifier that I've not used because it creates that heat. I may see if I can balance the cooling and dehumidifying to maximize comfort, particularly at night when humidity makes sleep harder and heat is less an issue.

[@mikelliteras397]

In florida, we have to do manual j load calcs on any new house and any remodel where 30-50% of the house is being remodeled. What people don’t or don’t want to understand is even with the load calcs the ac is oversized 95% of the time. The designs are based on the hottest day of the year and the hottest time of the day. With the right thermostat, a variable speed system is all you need for humidity control and cooling. I never put humidifiers in a house. The humidifier still cools the house. A full variable speed system will never pay for itself, but if you can afford it, it’s the only way to go. A properly designed and balanced system, with the thermostat in the right location, will work great for both cooling and humidity and usually it’s with a smaller system than you would think, without the hassles (heat and water)of a dehumidifier. I’m in Ft Lauderdale where there’s a bit of heat and humidity😜, and have installed thousands of systems since 1984, and have never installed a dehumidifier.

[@ArthurDentZaphodBeeb]

Florida a mostly-cooling climate and AC-only is a viable dehumidifying solution. But what about cooler climates with shoulder seasons where you get high humidity but have no cooling needs? That's a much-larger portion of the country. Jordan's advice is useful for a significant proportion of homes.

[@edwardlucero2120]

So glad I found this. You have settled a disagreement with me and my wife. We're building a home - very tight and well insulated. We will have two units in the home. (2k. sq. ft. per. unit work load)

[@andrewdiamond2697]

Great if you can build your own house, air seal it and exceed code on insulation. I did that with my detached garage and now I have an overbuilt air-conditioning system (4 tons for 2200 sq ft VRF multi-split that could have been a 2.5 ton unit, honestly) On the flip side, my main house was built in 1948. I've done what I can to improve insulation in the crawlspace and attic, but there aren't really any options with the walls. It has some drafts, better with the crawl space work I did, but still has drafts, and 2 fireplaces. I have a single-stage "no name" unit that is 15 years old. I'm pretty well convinced that a VRF or at least a two-stage will make a huge difference.

[@gregorymalchuk272]

Wrap the whole house in Tyvek if you put siding on.

[@blazeandcyrus]

very good video

[@ArthurDentZaphodBeeb]

Jordan, good, rational discussion. Agree - if you have humid climate (especially during shoulder seasons when AC isn't needed), a whole-house dehumidifier should be a key piece of equipment. Go for single-stage, high efficiency AC and spend effort tightening up the house/adding a rainscreen. I really like the focus on cost/ROI - it's helpful, useful advice. Matt ignores cost all-too-often in his vlogs - gets people interested until they find about the high cost - yes, rammed earth, hemp homes, triple pane and net-zero are interesting - until you dig deeper and see they are mostly virtue-signalling 1%er vanity builds. For some reason cost seems to be a topic to be avoided like the plague (I guess sponsors don't like that topic) - you've always been more pragmatic.

[@s.n.9485]

Matt's channel is focused mainly on new construction trends and technology. He's more about advanced and high end production, and you can see by the houses he works on that none of it is affordable for the average person. It's the construction version of MTV Cribs.

[@JasonEDragon]

My house is 130 years old in upstate New York and I know that when I went from a single speed furnace to a variable speed furnace the difference was day and night in comfort. I would never want to go back to a single stage furnace. So, I find the praise of single stage air conditioners hard to believe. I have a single stage AC and I don't like it. My biggest problem is trying to cool the upstairs. I was running the fan continuously to try to balance the temperatures but I did some experimentation and found out that was bad for dehumidification. I spent an hour or 2 in the basement watching the drain hose and finally figured out that the fan running with the AC cycled off was drying off the coil and putting that moisture back into the air. I have breathing problems and really can't handle humid weather any more. So, I would really like it if manufacturers and installers would get on the same page and have consistent recommendations. Having spent a career working in the technology field, I find it hard to believe that the price differential between 1 stage, 2 stage, and VRF systems has much to do with material costs for manufacture. I just don't see how one system is that much more costly to manufacture than the other base on the parts involved. To me it seems that manufacturers and/or installers just want a wide price difference to make more money off people who want better systems.

[@stanwinlim5218]

I agree with the single stage humidifier setup. I had a two-stage that was just giving a lot of problems

[@VolodymyrPavlyuk]

Another great video! It's interesting why inverter AC units are so much more expensive in the US if compared to outdated (at least in european terms) single stage units. If we're talking about multi-split VRF systems then they're really more expensive because they're more of commercial grade despite being advertised for home installations. However decent and simple mini split inverter units here in Europe start from 600$ USD for a 9k BTU/h unit and few bucks more for 1 ton ones. It's doesn't makes sense that one central AC unit costs more than 3 separate mini split system of the same combined size. That's some kind of inverse law of economy of scale

[@rj.parker]

A big part of the cost difference is the ductwork system that comes with a split system in the US combined with houses of 2500 sqft (232 sq meters) and bigger. Most of these houses will have big walk in closets, multiple baths, separate laundries, etc of which have ducting. Typical "normal" practice on production houses is often a ton of ac per 500 sq ft and two systems for two story houses. Minisplits "might" be used in single room additions or even garages and hardly ever for whole home conditioning. Not saying any of this is optimum building science but it is reality in the US since the late fifties when everyone had central air installed in new houses and most old houses started retrofitting the same. Finally, US hvac tradesmen as a whole only know single or dual stage split systems. Some can install minisplits but maintenance capabilities are often sketchy.

[@s.n.9485]

@@rj.parker I've met some HVAC guys that are downright hostile to minisplits. Don't understand it.

[@gregorymalchuk272]

@@rj.parker I'm not sure how much ducts play into cost. Most people these days are reusing ducts and even the air handlers.

[@elgringoec]

Good observation, inverse economy of scale. It's probably a pricing/profit outcome. I bought four mini splits last year in the size and price range you stated, no problem. Now with the Brandon squeeze that's likely to be a challenge.

[@elgringoec]

@@rj.parker It's a bit more of a "racket" and "rule of thumb" for my liking. I was quoted $9k for conditioning my home with two resistive backup heat pumps to cover four levels, which I didn't like their approach so designed my own single unit multi fuel system and ductwork, installed everything myself for about $3k. Works amazingly well and super quiet.

[@scorpio6587]

I completely agree.

[@chrisbabolat2]

2 - Daikin FIT Inverter 4 tons, huge comfort difference versus the 2 -4 ton single stage (20+ yrs old). Love them

[@AJ-bi6ns]

Worth noting there's variable heat pump units now thanks to inverter tech. Trane, York, Bosch and Carrier all offer them.

[@philipcatuogno2968]

Bro! Awesome information! I live in Austin, TX ("Humidity Capital"). If I go with single-stage + dehumidifier, should I be concerned with SEER? Would a 16 SEER be fine? Again, you are really putting out good into the world. Thank you!

[@tjrooger1092]

The other key issue... You need a PHd and a laptop with proprietary software to service VRF systems. Pretty much any random jag bag can order a motor and capacitor off Amazon these days. You really need to decide which side of the expertise fence you want to be on. True Pros are hard to find and will charge accordingly--but you can be 99% sure it'll get done right the first time.

[@shenmisheshou7002]

I live in an area where AC installation costs seem to be far above the national average but electricity is relatively inexpensive (average of about $.112 per KWh) They wanted so much for variable speed units that it was never going to pay for itself. The Two stage was a better solution for me but even here, the return on investment was small, but the added comfort offered by the lower humidity was a meaningful advantage. The VRF systems were just stupidly expensive, even after rebates were applied.

[@Garth2011]

I totally agree with going with a single stage system and 90% on gas heating. Why? Value is the main reason. VRF is outrageously expensive, complex, expensive to maintain and likely finding the correct parts when in need will be expensive and involve a waiting period to source them, likely from the manufacturer. Even for VRF to provide any value, the cost to run them would have to be a good 2/3's less energy used compared to a single stage system or else, the benefits just do not measure up. Same goes with those two stage systems. Yes, they aren't as noisy etc. however, all newer HVAC systems are quiet enough compared to 20 year old HVAC. For a working household, both at work all day (or other shifts) then home for a few hours before bedtime then gone again the next day, VRF and 2 stage just cannot give enough satisfaction not being home long enough to experience them. The retired crowed would have the best experience because they would usually be home longer. So, if the industry would offer those systems for less than they are now and provide parts for a good 20 years or so, they might have more value to the average family. As it is, its a choice between spending lots of cash money of HVAC to maximize lower energy costs or spending minimal cash to reduce energy costs at a moderate pace. Those in California would likely benefit from VRF only if the main focus was to use the least amount of power during summer since their electric rates are inflated by 4 to 6 times the national average. CA is paying about .45 cents per kWh during summer ! Nevada is about .08 cents per kWh. Both states get their power from the same sources so who is fooling who? Also, California is trying to eliminate natural gas in new home construction meaning, no gas fire place, no gas BBQ, no gas water heating and for HVAC, electric or they are forcing the industry to use highly expensive gas efficient and CO2 limited units that are out of sight in price. Even in existing homes, California is requiring super expensive water heating replacements and HVAC replacements that produce less CO2 and NOX than the era those homes were built. It's super expensive and the benefits are not going to the home owners, the extra over priced systems are slightly puffing less pollutants but no one would agree the extra cost is of any benefit in CO2 and NOX savings. Folks are best off to replace what they have with a single stage 18 SEER or 16 SEER A/C and 90% efficient heater for the best value and for parts availability when time comes a part fails.

[@ike7933]

Business is going to be great!!… lol I absolutely love replacing those inverter boards when they fail....😁😅 I agree with you though… They more energy efficient etc.... unfortunately, The boards are never on the truck.... and they’re always a special order part that has to take 2 to 3 business days to arrive etc.

[@JordanSmithBuilds]

I hear you. Do you see equal failures for both expensive Mitsubishi and cheap Pioneer (for example) systems?

[@ike7933]

@@JordanSmithBuilds I would say I see definitely less problems with the Mitsubishi units… And the local suppliers also stock more Mitsubishi products and parts, so if there is a problem the parts are slightly more readily available. But some of the midgrade brands are fairly decent actually for the price LG, Daiken seem to have better quality than the really cheap cheep units.... what I would do is simply install whatever unit you want, and at the same time order a spare inverter board. Lol... I actually like mini splits in the right application… I think it’s a great product. The biggest problem is that electronic boards are prone to failure from power surges, static electricity etc.… So you just have to be prepared for that. When you run the numbers they do add up to a lot of cost savings over time.

[@mitchdenner9743]

K.I S.S.

[@boby115]

@@ike7933 , I will agree. In the area of Missouri where I work, basements are the norm , so for me it's single stage with an Aprilaire dehumidifier. Problems are few and life is good.

[@pilotrserra]

Absolutely agree…plus when one system breaks down, they are easier to repair. Dehumidifier does one job…ac does one job…and heater coil does one job. Keep it simple and separate.

[@pooky9775]

no the thing you said is a very good system and economical as well but i would still go with vrf multi splits with nice erv and slap on some merv 13 and active carbon filter behind the erv...

[@shenoyglobal]

in Florida for a G + 2 Floors residential structure what do you think of A Hybrid VRF System with Zehnder fresh air system

[@hussainalali5069]

Good day, and many thanks for your excellent information on HVAC. I live in Bahrain where we use the AC's extensively. Can we convert an existing standard single-speed AC unit with the more economical variable speed AC? Thanks

[@zenderfall]

Nope. The closest you can do is sell off the old unit and buy a variable-speed (inverter) unit. The reason why isn’t as simple as swapping out the compressor. There’s a computer controlling the system that’s different, refrigerant is most likely different and a whole slew of other differences not apparent.

[@alvinhoang1800]

Great Video, my home is single story, 3000 sqft, Northen California, do I need a dual Stage System?

[@hkgonra]

Worked a few years with a great old HVAC guy. He always said Manual J was garbage. Units should be sized based on keeping the house at 65 on a record high temperature day with 2 kids and dogs constantly going in and out. 🤪

[@briangc1972]

If the old guy knew how to use Manual J, he could use it to do that calculation; you can accurately reach any target temp with any set of parameters. Sizing a system to reach 65 with kids and dogs will grossly over size the system. I hope that old guy is no longer in business selling the consumer the wrong equipment.

[@hkgonra]

@@briangc1972 we will have to disagree on that. 65 is comfortable. I don’t want my AC sized to only be able to reach 65 on a mild day and to be miserable inside on a hot day. Most homes built in the last 30 years it’s a miracle to get it below 80 on a really hot day. Especially if you have kids and/or dogs going in and out.

[@wildcard157]

@@hkgonra this is an issue I am currently having. My home is single level approx 1500-1600sf. The current unit is a single stage 2.5 ton and on hot days can’t cool below 75 degrees and it’s entirely hot and musty in the house. I had an hvac company come out and recommended a 3 ton dual stage unit which is slight more cfm and btu but I’m scared I’m going to have the same issue of not cooling below 75 on hot days

[@hkgonra]

@@wildcard157 what part of the country is the house in ? That makes a huge difference.

[@brockbaker3able]

@@wildcard157very late reply, but if your home is musty and the unit is running constantly then it’s not the size, you either have a dirty indoor coil, dirty filter, or you have the wrong size ducts. Also, if you’re air handler is in the attic, that’s a huge issue.

[@Sam-om8ph]

One comment regarding vrf. Reliability has indeed improved over the years but, in the event a vrf motor does go out (and I have), you’re looking at a considerably higher cost to replace than a constant speed motor on the order of 2-3x the cost and availability of vrf motors is less. Higher cost to buy, higher cost to replace, potentially longer downtime. In my case, I had the service tech to replace with a constant speed since the unit was over 12 years old and the dead of summer when it failed.

[@tomo9097]

I live in a dry climate without the humidity issue, should the size of the unit get adjusted for? Is a two stage unit quieter? Sound is an issue for me.

[@Balticblue93]

I also live in a super dry climate but I also live in high altitude but it still get hot as hell here in the western suburbs of Denver. I did a massive amount of research and even started going to night school for my NATE certification. For years, I have helped people fix their AC units by replacing capacitors, contactors, fan units, blower motors etc and replace parts on their furnace. I had an older AC unit that was a single stage Trane that was R22 and it ran for 20 years and was still great when I sold the house. Over the years, an HVAC friend help train me in many areas and as the technologies got better and more affordable, I found them to be so much better. Do I agree with the fella in this video? No, not really, because that is only part of the whole picture. I did a ton of research and found a install company that was very transparent with their costs and found that single stage, two stage and Variable speed systems really do not cost that much more to the HVAC company from their distributors and parts houses. They just mark them up so far and put insane amounts of labor on them because they think they are the only people who can do this type of work. You would think that they were high end lawyers. I forgot that HVAC companies are really medical doctors and charge 500/hr or at least that is how they quote. But desperate people will pay whatever it takes to fix it when it is hot or cold. It is total nonsense. I worked out a deal with a company for new higher efficient 19 Seer 4-ton Variable speed Air conditioner (5 stages of cooling available to the thermostat) and a new two stage gas valve natural gas furnace with a variable speed blower. They both are incredibly quiet with good insulation and proper designs . I barely know they are on most of the time. I cannot even hear the AC soft start, hear the fan or the blower running unless I walk up next to them or I look the thermostat or app on my phone. It is amazing how quiet the fans run gently and keep my home perfectly at one temperature without any fluctuation. You can program your electrical and gas costs into the thermostat and it will give you very close values of what your bill costs will be minus all the insane taxes and ridiculous charges from your provider. It was pretty expensive to install compared to Pre-Covid quotes we received. What was 8-9k is now 14-17k, depending on what you buy and how efficient you go. But you can always find an honest dealer that isn't out to rip your head off on every sale. There are plenty of those companies. I would tell you stay away from the many with fancy commercials and "super huge discounts with coupons." I found a company that worked with house flippers and investors through a friend. The guy did a full entire load calculation, insulation check, windows, current vent flow, checked return air ducts etc. It was impressive to see the report generated. He wasn't the cheapest on the list but his company was great to work with. I am pretty hard on contractors these days and he was a good guy. He didn't try to hide part numbers or pricing from me. His guys did a full install and tons of extra work in 3/4 of a day. I was so impressed on the efficiency of their work and kindness. One of the owners stopped by to make sure we were happy and checkout the install was up to his liking. He runs a tight ship, I would assume. His crew cleaned up and it was like they were never there. 10 year parts and labor warranty included and they have been in business 22 years. You can still have a two stage AC condenser with a variable speed blower on your air handler/heat pump/furnace, depending on your area and need for cooling and heat. Any system can be customized to your very need and wants. Everyone has their own opinion on what brand of equipment is the best. I personally think a great install is more important in most cases plus your home needs to as energy efficient as possible to support the equipment to do its job (Insulation, newer windows, etc etc). Most people do not realize that the top 10 brands are sometimes made in a lot of the same factories. Just make sure it is properly sized for your home and what you want. Get a dozen quotes, if you so choose and ask a lot of questions. Make people honest and accountable. If one guy is 24k and another is 10k, start asking questions like I did. All I know is that I am not paying for one companies overhead because they have a big name on the side of the building. Make sure to get your new setup / system cleaned and serviced yearly to keep it in top condition. Andi n a dry climate, you might need a steam humidifier. Those are amazing during the heating cycle in the winter. But that might only apply here in Denver. American Standard & Trane - Carrier & Bryant, Rheem & Ruud, etc etc kzbin.info/www/bejne/eaqXZ6yKl9CBnqs This video is a younger fella that breaks the brands down. Sorry it is so long winded. I just tell people to be a savvy buyer. Don't get run over. Just for the record, I went with a Bryant Evolution system with a few upgrades for air purification. I hope you found what was looking for since this post was from three months ago.

[@JamesSmith-vy9ft]

Im building a two story house. We used spray foam with radiant floor heat in the slab. Have two ducted VRF units and a whole house dehumidifier. Is this good?

[@tresruizwoodruff9323]

Hello. If you build a “tighter house”... Envelope is plywood, acoustic sealant between ply/framing, tyvek wrap taping all seams and flashing tape all windows and doors. Insulation Closed cell underneath raise house, open cell on roof rafters and rock wool in the walls. Window and Door package mid grade. Southern Louisiana client Do you think I would be find with Single Stage w/ secondary dehumidifier and be fine.... Or at this point, a fresh air supply unit is also needed?

[@JordanSmithBuilds]

You would probably be fine without a fresh air intake. The last pretty tight house that I built and lived in for myself (around 2ach 60) had a fresh air intake through the dehumidifier. I had a CO2 monitor and shut off the fresh air intake to see if I could tell the difference. I couldn't. Between kids opening and closing doors all day long and vent hoods getting turned on for cooking etc there was enough air changes to not need the mechanical unit. However, having said that, if you're already installing a dehumidifier it's really easy to put in a y before the intake and hook it up to your humidistat to switch between closed loop and fresh air intake.

[@tresruizwoodruff9323]

@@JordanSmithBuilds Thank You. Currently working with an investor who always fights me on building science improvements. I(we) feel its more important to build a comfortable and efficient house (Within Allowable Budgets)... All said, Thank you again for the input. Also looking into LP products from another video of yours. Watched Matt R. for years and now you are another resource we use in the ever pursuit of building knowledge. Love the style and approach you are taking with your channel

[@toddharper-ok]

Thanks for another great and timely video! My wife and I are finalizing construction plans here in Oklahoma and I'm struggling with how to manage ventilation. Is the best budget scenario supply through a dehumidifier and exhausting through bathrooms with smart switches ? Thanks again for the realistic ROI advice, that is very valuable to "average folks".

[@JordanSmithBuilds]

That would be my advice. I am doing that exact strategy now on our latest build. You're welcome!

[@ccasanova34]

Could you elaborate on the smart switches? What will they accomplish? Brand/model? Price? Thanks!

[@2centsworth766]

Would you add an easy start on the compressor? Is it worth the $

[@TexasEngineer]

Jordon, I would love to see pictures or diagrams of your dehumidifier.

[@scotthenderson4376]

How would a mini split work for a open center of the house with bedrooms/bath on each side? House is pretty tight and insulated better then most. Located in NWF and have fish tanks ?

[@drive8892]

Should you put on hard start kit to a 2 stage unit ac?

[@sidneyleejohnson]

Doesn't Daikin's inverter offering cover VRF at a reduced cost? maybe not 1 2 4 if you factor Daikin into the picture.

[@Garth2011]

I'm a DIY but also believe that the 2 and 3 ton split systems have a sweet spot when it comes to cooling BTU per cost and power usage. I noticed that the 5 ton systems are big on power usage compared to 3 and 4 ton units. So, cost to operate might play into the math, put in two smaller units or one 5 ton? I'd opt for two smaller units myself and likely experience better control as well as save money on power...Some locations sell power way more than others such as California. I know folks in Nevada and they pay 6 cents for tier one power then 8 cents for tier two. In CA they charge .32 cents per kWh and .45 cents ! It's all because of the state of CA who runs the power grid via CA ISO in Rocklin, CA. They are forcing power distributors, SCE, PG&E, SDG&E, to pay the state sanctions for selling power produced by coal or natural gas and that is part of our rates ! Only in CA !

[@bahopik]

If you think two stage adds complexity, think twice about VRF, coming from a service technician

[@bmfitzgerald3]

As a service tech, would you say that two stage units fail more often than one stage? Are they more expensive to service?

[@garyganser2451]

Roughly how much more is a 2 stage ac over a 1 stage? I have a 3 ton, but my fan is set very high, and I think it and the compressor could run lower most of the time.

[@elgringoec]

"will condensate", really? 🤔 😂☮️ You're right about the people doing the sizing calculations. What you seem to miss is that when cooling humid air, the energy of the evaporating refrigerant is absorbed condensing (not "condensating") the moisture from the air, not cooling the air much at high humidity so it cools more air as humidity drops. The system would have to be grossly oversized in order to cool the volume significantly yet still leave the air perceptively humid. I agree with you on the payoff of fancy electronic variable speed systems (never mind repair costs and availability of parts way down the road) *and* with the airtight insulated structure. But the only place for a dehumidifier imo is subterranean conditioned space where the heavy humid air tends to accumulate and cool surfaces abound. I also agree about higher setpoints; I run my oversized a/c at 80F and the humidity hovers in the upper forties. Coming in from the humid outdoors even when only a few degrees warmer outside it feels much cooler and a comfortable reprieve indoors, and at a minimal energy consumption. Been doing that for thirty years. That said, I'm still impressed with these mini split systems with their complex computer algorithms, speeding up and slowing down, directing air up and down... Kinda silly in a way but quite effective in a single open area, and quiet. Now, when they break, it could be a troubleshooting and parts acquisition nightmare, but operationally they're rather fascinating. Cheers!

[@davidlaws1438]

Question, I have a small house 1000 sf, my old heat pump just quit working after 18 yrs, a Goodman. It's been a good one, I'm looking at a new york, 2 ton, 14.2 seer, I trust my contractor, installed it will be 6,890 . Is this a good deal? Any advice would be appreciated thanks...

[@1ronhall]

I’m in the market for a quality whole house dehumidifier. Any good manufacturer or install tips? I would appreciate any feedback.

[@STEVIE1959]

I have a Trane Gas pack 4 ton 16seer, my question is what at the thermostat determines if I run 1st stage low air flow or second stage high air flow and can I make it run second stage stronger cooling by adjusting thermostat???????????.....stevie I have a Trane 824 thermostat

[@gregorymalchuk272]

I am guessing it has to do with trying and not being able to reduce the temperature to a desired level in some finite time and so it goes into dual stage mode. In this case, it might actually help to turn the thermostat down. It will take longer to cook down that far and might kick it into dual stage mode.

[@alexvincent5790]

Can you run a two stage furnace with a single stage ac unit

[@SeeonX]

What if you have a shity 1952 house? Then do you use a VRF or a basic setup with a dehumidifier?

[@wesiniraq]

Thanks for the useful information. While I grew up in upstate NY, and it could get down to -15F and some years -25, now I'm in the DC area where it's more like +10 to 95 in the summer with a few years hitting 100 and the humidity is terrible. I live in a townhouse and use manual dehumidifiers on the 2 lower floors due the reasons you mentioned and it's not worthwhile to change the existing HVAC from gas heat and normal electric AC to include dehumidifying. I'm planning on retiring to FL in 2-3 years, and I lived there for 3 years so I'm familiar with the climate, but I'll go upscale from the basic HVAC I had in the early to mid 80s to include solar and dehumidifying as well as air filtration. I'm also looking at a heat pump to avoid the horrible winter "shields" electric heat that is far beyond the worst summer cooling in cost - and the coldest temps of about freezing and most years high 30s to low 40s should be cost effective. Trying to figure out the likely options and likely costs, since the ductwork will be in place (I'm not waiting 6+ months for a new house but could add attic insulation and replace some windows) - it's not too complicated but the data isn't ready to find. Assume something around 2000 sq ft standard FL single story and built mid 90s+ and probably mid 2000s+ for a reference on materials and construction. Older construction has energy issues 8 don't want to deal with. My old Clarkson U friends who studied mechanical engineering (compared to my electronics and software) have been saying a lot about the improvements in hear pumps and solar in the last decade, and it makes sense. These are months long discourses involving about 20 of us by email. Your video(s) fill in some gaps about the tradeoffs with #of stages, and were fairly clear. At least pointing me in the direction of questions to ask. The options about heat pumps will be harder as it's specific to the moderate (65 degree swing year round) temperature variations of that region and the CBS construction so common that doesn't include a lot of wall insulation. So this research is going to be multi faceted before I start looking at particular real estate (let alone a likely correction). I just want to say thanks for providing some good information while staying on topic and not trying to cover tangents that belong in other videos. As an engineer I love the technical but know that despite my electronics knowledge buying a home computer often just comes down to the Dell site or what's on the shelf at Best Buy for practical reasons. I hope to simplify to a practical level and then insist on non over simplified answers where they are inappropriate. I think you helped there.

[@cranbers]

I have a Daikin VRV life system, (notthing fancy like what itst meant for just a outdoor unit and a cxtq coil like a normal system) and the dehumidifcation ability is basically zero. After having it installed the house can't get below 55 percent humidity, I had to install a whole home dehumidifier to get it into the 40's. The unit runs all day and its behavior as far as hitting set point is just bonkers. Set it to 72, starts at 74, stays at 74-75 on a hot day, running 18 hours. Eventually shuts off at 71 in the middle of the night. It seems to work by using outdoor temp and indoor thermostat to figure out what level of cooling is needed. It will run to get the evaporator coil temp between 37-54 degrees. I think my evap coil sits in the 40's and with dew point at 7x degrees you need to get into the 30's to actually dehumidify. So I guess the savings is run the unit at 1200 watts for 18 hours vs 4k watts 10 or 20 mins per hour for 12 hours (variable vs a 4 ton single stage)

[@Turbopriest]

I have a 2 stage which is brand new. I’m not sure I like it because the air coming out of the vents seems weak to me and I’m not used to that. Anybody noticed that and agree with me?

[@BlackoutStormChasing]

What about Daiken Fit?

[@rogerhodges7656]

Please expand on a whole house dehumidifier.

[@TheIcyhydra]

6:30 i have portable A/C/heating/de-humidifier in my bathroom... when i dehumidify it heat up the bathroom to about 36 celcius. one way you could keep the temperature to same level while dehumidifying would be to output a portion of the heat from compressing the air back into the house but away from the input so that it doesn't affect the dehumidifying speed as much....with some sort of electric solenoid that control valves n shit

[@arthurmoore9488]

I would be careful, depending on your model, the AC unit could actually be stupidly inefficient. Here's a video explaining it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/lV7Qc5iPeJd-fcU tl;dr: If it's a single hose unit, then when it's cooling it's actually sucking the cold air out of the room and creating a negative pressure environment.

[@TheIcyhydra]

@@arthurmoore9488 mine have 2 hoses but i purposefully do try to create negative pressure in my house during summer because my bathroom doesn't have any duct to expel humidity during showers....during east canadian winter. i just keep the unit next to my shower and the vacuum is near the ceilling and it's pushing hot air downward on the floor.

[@blackericdenice]

I would rather have a single stage unit. Less stuff to go wrong.

[@b4804514]

JOrdan $80 electric a month you are the man. Live in FL and the variable speed fan dehumidifies perfectly with 2 stage unit. Do not run the fan all the time because that puts humidity into the air by not allowing the coils to drain. Do you recommend a split system in a smaller home? 2 separate units 1 bedrooms 1 living area? It seems like areas being all the same temp is wasteful. Sleeping in a cooler space is better.

[@Garth2011]

Average Southern California house 3bed/2bath/1,800 SF is paying $400 or more in summer.

[@MrNicholasAaron]

What is the light blue line on the charts?

[@JordanSmithBuilds]

Humidity.

[@christinearmington]

An engineer friend said I was losing efficiency (and therefore $$$) because the outside units are in a corner under a porch. He suggested moving them out to the edge of the porch for better air circulation (thus less $$$).

[@maverick1776.]

You're talking about compressors...what about the 2 stage air handler with single speed compressor?

[@WakeUpAmerican000s]

Mike Daniello - if you size your 1-speed condenser and evap coil for the highest fan speed for maximum cooling, you're likely to experience problems if you reduce the airflow in the air handler without also reducing the output of the outdoor condenser. Your coil could freeze up.

[@ccasanova34]

Lots of good information here. Many local HVAC specialists I’ve spoken to give a quote in seconds. 😔 Is there a HVAC design service somewhere that doesn’t cost an arm and a leg?

[@briangc1972]

There are online Manual J programs that you can pay a small fee and enter your data. You will need wall dimensions and types, window dimensions, overhang of the eves, ceiling and wall insulation R values, combustion gas appliance info, and exterior doors and sizes.

[@KCkohler]

1 5 ton with 2 zones? Or two units 3ton/2ton for two separate zones?

[@briangc1972]

Always better off with two smaller units. A 3 ton and 2 ton combined equal a 5 ton in output, but at less energy use. Also, when using a 5 ton for 2 zones, when either zone calls for cooling, you pay to start a 5 ton compressor (125 amp initial start draw) and it draws 18 amps continuously. When zoned with separate units, the initial start draw of the 3 ton is about 40 amps and the 3 ton will draw 11 amps continuously. I have seen both types of configurations in multiple homes. The homes with multiple small units always use 30 to 50% less energy compared to the homes using a 5 ton system and multiple zoning.

[@KCkohler]

@@briangc1972 thanks for the reply I will definitely keep my current setup of a 2ton/3ton when changing out my units.

[@leathercheerio1]

Had an hvav guy come out and I asked him about seer. He said it was basically bs for the average guy. Guess he's right.

[@jl9678]

I'm itching to disagree .lol. my ac system is an antique single stage unit. Not oversized and not undersized. But the latent cooling is .46 on a hot day. My house stays at between 38 percent the and 44 percent rh all summer in the DFW area. My highest electric bill this year running two systems 24 7 with 4 people in the house was $154. I will not include a dehumidifier in my new build. More to spend, and more to break later. I want to find a slightly undersized single stage, with good latent capabilities and run with that. Very low upfront cost and very low running cost

[@JordanSmithBuilds]

YOU'RE WRONG!!! :) Just kidding. I actually don't disagree with you. If you have lived in a house long enough to know that the existing tonnage is adequate for cooling, doesn't short cycle and keeps the house at the preferred humidity, then why no stick with what works? The problem for us as custom home builders is that we never build the same house in the same location twice. Having a AC+Dehumidifier solution is our best bang for the buck while keeping happy, comfortable home owners.

[@jl9678]

@@JordanSmithBuilds that's a good point. You have to prepare for the worst.

[@SergeMavro]

who makes 2-zone min-split VRFs?

[@zachattack83]

Whatever you do make sure the outside unit is placed where you don’t here it in your bedroom and it’s not super loud!

[@tedc6694]

Learning about dehumidifiers next I guess

[@g00fysmiley]

I agree for new construction, but think VRF in the south makes a lot of sense for retrofit. As an example my house is a mediocre custom home from 1978 it has middling insulation, the roof has only gable vents and the air handler is in the poorly vented hot (140 f+) roof space. mini splits let me cut out the entire attic equation and for ~$750 each 1 ton Pioneer unit I added dehumidification to the house and cut my electric bill from ~$240 a month in the summer to ~$160 (yea still bad but working on that with some other projects). cost to replace the 2.5 ton Janitrol from 1992 system would have been $5k so overall i saved money for a better system. Admittedly the Pioneers would have been $1500 each to have them installed by somebody else but as a hvac tech i could get them and install without any labor cost, but 3 would still have been cheaper than a low end goodman 2.5 ton system installed professionally.

[@JordanSmithBuilds]

Completely agree. Retrofits are a different animal. I have several Pioneer systems myself in secondary buildings, and have been very happy so far. We are about to add another ton to our garage with a Pioneer system as well. As a HVAC tech, what are tour opinions on the cheap mini-splits vs something like Mitsubishi?

[@g00fysmiley]

@@JordanSmithBuilds honestly the mitsubishis are amazing and efficient but the question falls into a case of are they 3-4x better than a pioneer, LG, Daikan, sveille, GRee? not really. the most premium brand I would debate buying is a MR. Cool DIY partially for the savings in labor but the other side of the coin is they are a bit more efficient. They sometimes go on sale for $1200 and at that price its very worth it. at the current listings of $1600-1800 for a 12kbtu I would not consider it worth double a cheaper one. (most cheaper ones are 17-19 seer vs the 21-23 seer for premium brands)

[@BendeVette]

Most of the airco's can modulate between 20 and 100% of their capacity. So short cycling is something of the past (at least it should be).

[@tweake7175]

Correct me if im wrong here, but only variable speed (efficent) or hot bypass (inefficient).

[@mikelliteras397]

@@tweake7175 you’re correct, a variable speed compressor and evaporator fan motor works best but it can be controlled somewhat by just a variable speed fan motor. Short cycling is definitely not a thing of the past

[@rodhoutx]

I love to follow a/c discussions. I upgraded from a single stage to a 2-stage with the idea it would "dehumidify" better and run longer. When they calculated manual J I am about 2.7 ton, but they don't have half ton sizes, so still at 3-ton size (same as original/builder size). Of course, the indoor coil is so much larger than the old one. The unit does run on 1st stage most of the time, but ironically it dehumidifies better in 2nd stage. Humidity varies from about 52 to 55%. Old system could kept it around 48 to 52% They've come out and adjusted the speeds downward and it also has the dehumidify on demand to slow it down even more. The furnace has an ECM blower with a nice digital menu system, not jumpers. The condenser is the typical scroll compressor which is just unloading for first stage, which some say is not as good as having the dual compressor or a variable speed system. With that said, I do love the quieter ECM blower and that the airflow is less on 1st stage. However, if the system were to die tomorrow I'd probably go back to a single-stage and add a dehumidifier somewhere, and drop down to 2.5 ton. I also feel like the controls for variable systems may not last a long as the simpler systems, or you're going to have a time trying to find a tech that understand that manufacture's controls since each one has proprietary controls, versus just typical simple thermostat and 24v relays.

[@DavidMoriconiM3inspect]

What state do you live, $80.00 electric bill seems like a dream of mine living in central florida. Yea I understand elecric rates have risen in 2 years of this video

[@acmm50]

My problem with 2 stage & VRF is that is only work off of temperature not humidity. Why pay for a dehumidifier in addition to an expensive VRF. I live in the northeast and single stage has been great for me

[@johnalexander2349]

Is "VRF" what the rest of the world calls "inverter"? If so, that's by far the most popular here - maybe 20% more costly, but more efficient and longer lasting.

[@JordanSmithBuilds]

Yes. The units use inverter drives to allow for a variable refrigerant flow. I agree, much more energy efficient, and for small spaces, really not that much more expensive.

[@picklerix6162]

Longer lasting? Really? You need to back that up with some data.

[@Garth2011]

@@JordanSmithBuilds Does that also mean the motors are DC?

[@tjrooger1092]

Repair costs are also x4.

[@bmfitzgerald3]

Following this logic, have you found that repair costs for dual stage are 2x that of single stage? Debating between single and dual, thanks

[@urchin11]

I think you missed a key issue HVAC systems need to be designed for each specific home and client. Never trust HVAC contractor who walks in asks 3-4 question and then just hands you a quote.

[@ArthurDentZaphodBeeb]

You mean, like 95% of them?

[@Garth2011]

And does the replacement in one day. Quality, craftmanship, pride and experienced installers can't do it that fast.

[@MM-es5hv]

I had a two stage ac unit, never again ….

[@tonyhwang3888]

More complex, more chance of getting trouble = more upkeep cost.

[@nicholaspappas9712]

To cool my bedrooms at night.

[@masteraugmentedproduction5828]

Two stage helps out with improperly designed duct systems. 😉

[@_winston_smith_]

Good luck finding a tech to fix your complicated VRF when it breaks. If you can find someone to fix it, make sure you are sitting down before reading the repair estimate. Don't worry, you'll have plenty of time to save up since the parts will take 6 months to arrive.