How Have Orcs & Goblins Changed? | Building Warhammer Armies

[@chitzkoi]

This is one of your best videos in a while and I particularly rate how you referenced your sources openly and fairly

[@margaretwood152]

"Thaaaat was *_MAGICAL‼"_* ~ Kenny Rogers Psychic Network🪄 (c. 1993)

[@pitmatix1457]

Great video! The only notable thing you missed (though I do think it's a major omission) was the Hill Goblins being reborn as the Gnoblars for the Ogre Kingdoms release! Favourite Orc and Goblin Model? I love the revamped Skarsnik and Gobbla.

[@petermillar8866]

"Great bunch of lads" I hope that was an exquisite Father Ted reference.

[@anchuisneoir3973]

Of course, there are no Orcs on Craggy Island

[@rupertjones5197]

@@anchuisneoir3973it’s not the orcs it’s the elves he’s after

[@Xomitsious]

I love everything Kev Adams sculpted during 4th edition (not so much his earlier stuff) and almost all my models are from that era. I also really like (but don't own) the Gorbad Ironclaw model from 7th edition.

[@DamBrooks]

Orcs are simply the greatest creatures in all tabletop games and fantasy history, you know it’s true 🎉

[@kennethtang4460]

😊Xh

[@John_on_the_mountain]

I use to fight against this idea but slowly i am beginning to see the truth. They are the greatest

[@jacobturnerart]

Even Tolkien knew that the orks and goblins could double as both a source of threat and comic relief.

[@Rgoid]

Hello? Orcs and Goblins are supposed to be the SAME thing.

[@keithsimpson2685]

@@Rgoid It's a shrimp and prawn thing.

[@andrewrockwell1282]

Id love to see someone show up to an Old World game with an army of kobolds, red goblins, hobgoblins, and Fimir. And be like "what? They're old world monsters, I have rules for them from forces of fantasy." 😅

[@ClydeMillerWynant]

I'd tell them I knew they were lying as the Fimir didn't turn up till several years later in White Dwarf. And so sadly I would have to confiscate them and spend the rest of my life sleeping on my newly acquired pile of Fimir-gold. I'd let them play with the rest of course even if I have my doubts about the kobolds which I only remember from D&D.

[@saifernandez8622]

@@ClydeMillerWynant Fimir stats are on the main rulebook bestiary of third edition warhammer fantasy battles

[@ClydeMillerWynant]

@@saifernandez8622 I think their very first appearance might be in WFRP though they became a much bigger thing with the WD articles in issues numbered high-90s/early 00s. Even WFRP is some time after Forces of Fantasy of course as that's a 1st Ed supplement that I sadly no longer have.

[@totomen666]

Tyrranids' slowly walk-in to the Old World, and be like "No one expects Tyrranid Inquisition" - since now they have hivemind from stormtroopers, and probably gonna talk in some extra smug Kerrigan way, She who broke a chains, Queen of Bludds.

[@John_on_the_mountain]

Its like the random person who shows up with the cardboard ork mech from 2nd edition 40K lol.

[@TheLunchBreakPainter]

Another superlative video matey! 👏👏 My favourite Orcs and Goblins are the classic Heroquest versions. From seeing the TV advert to getting them on the table those quick little gobbos and 3 attack dice Orcs ended many a hero! And were responsible for starting my mad passion for the hobby ever since!

[@SusCalvin]

I like the WFRP adventure describing snotlings as "Porters and ambulatory larder". Middenheim had the street sport snotball, No holds historical football using a snotling in leather wraps.

[@alecmulinder5759]

Superb review, I think this level of detail is excellent, and it if means a longer YT vid then so be it.

[@garyknight3018]

There is a mini I had as a youngling which was two orcs carrying a weird boy that I used as my blood bowl teams wizard… he use to shoot lightning bolts out of his mouth and knock players down. I need to track one down now :)

[@imienazvvisko]

Sounds like Ade West Goblin Warboss conversion, posted in Orc & Goblins Collectors Guide. Its based on Oddgit shaman, who standa on dwarf shield carried by two goblins (Asterix village leader vibe).

[@darvidoba6702]

My favorite O&G Goblin is the 6th Edition Fanatic with the little bell on his hood.

[@MiniatureRealms]

Loved this, very fun and loads of great detail. Can’t wait for more in this series.

[@Pumpkinetic]

I love your materials man, thanks for all you do. So informative, well researched and your charisma is perfect mix.

[@fyrdraca77]

I no longer play any GW games and never collected Orcs & Goblins, but videos such as this are such a great trip down memory lane. Orcs were one of the most popular armies at my wargaming club back in the day, hence they used to be a fairly common enemy to face on the battlefield! Thanks for posting these videos Jordan!

[@GordonPryra]

I remember Chaos Marauders!! That game was so much fun. Even seeing the picture of the box here has made me feel really happy :)

[@twincast2005]

I recognize that being a barely treatable fungal infestation has become rather core to greenskins in the various Warhammer settings, but I much preferred when they were just hardy mammals. Anyway, fantastic video! A great job as usual.

[@AndusDominae]

I have a collection of models, books, magazines, box sets, and random things going back pre White Dwarf 1. I had two in particular very geeky brothers about a decade my seniors, who each avidly collected and eventually passed everything to me bit by bit, but I refused to get rid of anything. One bit in I think a White Dwarf always sticks out in my memory. It was varying degrees of mushroom and snotling crossover. Especially one panel, which had twins Mushling and Snotroom, each almost a reverse of the other in how the mix between two states manifested. After this video I may have to unveil the old chest of draws full of the oldest bits and have another look through.

[@ClydeMillerWynant]

My favourite orc, certainly of the ones I have does figure in the video - he's the general of Kev Adams' army in Warhammer Armies, the one with the big morning star. I have a lot of love for some of the other orc champions from that era, especially the famous one with the two cleavers held down at his sides. Also a couple that figured in the Ravening Hordes 'Five Sample Armies' leaflet - Hardnose Mard the Truly Unpleasant and Krapper Snat the Nasty Piece of Work. The latter is the orc leader from McDeath under a different name. Favourite goblins that I own are probably the Goblin Battle Chariots, the (not very good) box artwork is shown at one point in the video. Otherwise Kev Adams Night Goblins I guess. Rather annoyingly my Grom from Grom's Goblin Guard isn't even fat as he's from the slotta version. Even worse I got eight of him in my set along with one trooper and the standard bearer, don't know if it was leftover stock, just badly packed or what, those were the days...

[@BeastWreck]

The green color is likely a result of just wanting to have a color scheme that stood out a bit and was a little less drab than the overwhelming amount of greys and browns already existing in such a world. Toss some green orcs and red dragons in there for some color!

[@Jackalblade9]

Great video, Jordan! My only complaint; not enough squigs! We need at least 40 minutes more on Gobbla and his kin! Maybe mention the night goblins in fairness, but at least 35 of those minutes have to be on squigs! I'm not actually three squigs in a human suit, honest.

[@eriksieurin334]

Great session about a subject I love!

[@davidaward82]

ah... i remember that yellow fronted book... my first orc & gobbo army book tbh. back before Grimgor was even an idea. RIP Morglum Necksnapper.

[@jeremiahembs5343]

The first citadel paint sets had a colour called Orc Brown available in the second boxed set called the Creature set so that says a lot, but the reason goblin green is called goblin green is that the miners used to come out of the mines colored green due to natural chromium, manganese, and especially cobalt deposits and those miners were referred lovingly by the people in Europe as goblins and the color they were covered with as goblin green and the cobalt or KOBOLDS were supposedly the goblins released in the toxic smelting process. True story. You're welcome.

[@drfishynooooo881]

YEEEEEESSSSSS!!!! Finally focussing on the best faction in Fantasy AND w40k. The multipart Orc/Ork Boyz and Goblin/Night Goblin kits are my favourite. So versatile and so much character, they are brilliant on their own or for the basis of a conversion. Great video (I may be biased) WAAAAAAGGH!

[@gatorbomb7472]

I really enjoy this channel, Jordan is just fantastic. I have so much love for this setting, I really hope the old world works out and generations to come can enjoy this setting as much as I have .

[@jamesmorgan3623]

The classic plastic orc and goblin minis are just amazing.

[@jclefbouncyrock]

Awesome video, man. Thanks for making this!

[@bencarter1646]

Wait - glancing through the Comments, was I the only one chuckling at the reference to a gnat's crotchet?? Humph would be appalled... Would love to see more of these History Of... videos, this channel is a goldmine ❤

[@jordansorcery]

Not a single comment from Mrs Trellis of North Wales either!

[@NummiAFI]

The old Skarsnik and Gobbla are my all time favourite. There is a gorgeous entry featuring both at this years Adepticon, altough the name of the artist escapes me thikk skull. Need a krumpin.

[@ClydeMillerWynant]

Nice to see Blood on the Snow included though how you managed to do so without the dwarf snowballs getting a mention I don't know. Had forgotten about the Gathering of Eagles artwork so that was great to see again. The Broken Nose tribe article was also a real favourite, must try to get a copy of that WD. One WD article I felt really should have made it into the video is the Bratt's Boar Boyz one from WD106. Amazing drawings and a fun story. The picture of the recruit launching a flying horizontal headbutt at his boar in the corral while Bratt leans smoking on the fence is an absolute gem.

[@ClydeMillerWynant]

On the Battle Scenario front 'The Valley of Death' from WD97 also merits a mention if only for the Goblins being led by Gan Green and the fact that you needed 64 Orcs, 142 Goblins, 2 Trolls and 5 bases of Snotlings along with wolves, pigs, chariots and war machines. Or a handful of actual figures and lot of cardboard squares in my case.

[@o0krazyboris0o]

What a stroll down ol memory lane, thank you as always Jordan, another wonderful vid :)

[@Thorgrim153]

My favorite orc mini would have to be the Azhag the Slaughterer (8th Edition) version, though the one I had was Finecast and I had to re sculpt properly 20% of it it was beautiful.

[@NisGaarde]

Awesome video Jordan!!!

[@jordansorcery]

Cheers Nis!

[@Treblek]

Thanks for this great history of the best faction of Warhammer fantasy in all objectivity 😁 Maybe one da we could have an episode about the look of the orcs and goblins that has changed dramatically from the 6th, which I believe gives this "signature look" of the green skins of games workshop in general. Personally my all times favorites are the 2nd editions of ruglud armoured orcs with the crossbows. The classic shaman with his skull staff and the nasty skulkers maybe!

[@andrewj1754]

Not just fungus eaters, but fungus be-ers. Love your work Jordan.

[@Fueledchaos]

Always been a massive fan of the Ork range. Though barely owned many myself. Great overview though as ever!

[@michaelmott1420]

Your videos are great because you mix passion and enthusiasm with great research and references! My favorite greenskin models have to be the squigs and herders. I loved putting touches of weird colors and the gobbo herders/riders were just the right amount of playful.

[@EntropicEcho]

Great video! My very first Warhammer purchase was a box of 6 plastic monopose black orks. Wish I still had them. I've also since fallen in love with the pre 4th edition orks, great oldskool fantasy vibes. And, once an orc player, always an orc player, so I still play Kruleboyz and Night Goblins in Age of Sigmar. I hope you'll find your pig stealing orc raider!

[@nashpainting]

Eeza Ugezod's Mother Crushers is my favourite orc regt and takes pride of place on my shelf. He really is a huge sod! King Fyar on his wyvern is possibly one of my favourite ever minis though, and I have always wanted to play all the way through Orc's Drift. I still have my "I bathed in blood at Orc's Drift' badge.

[@greendalf123]

Great video. Getting back into old world for the first time since 8th. Super nostalgic for Orcs. Didn’t know most of that early history, thank you.

[@mevl4822]

Thanks, you do wonderful work.

[@jordansorcery]

Thank you very much for the support!

[@YuanMekong]

I'd love to see snotlings make a comeback.

[@AlexJP88]

I found this all fascinating and full of green skins facts. Thanks for sharing it with us.

[@watchit3746]

The Greatest?!?!?!? This is going in the Book!!!

[@DamBrooks]

Dwarfs only learned to write so they could document how cool the Orcs are 🤡 jealous because the Orcs are just so cool 😎

[@pogo8050]

‘Ello stuntie! Lost any mountains lately?

[@watchit3746]

not really, but I ate a lot of stonebread full of grobi flour@@pogo8050

[@rubenlopezcatalan8661]

Thanks for the video…there is a lot to cover but this is a great summary 🙌🏻

[@narwhalcheese]

What's that hidden behind the Goblin Green? A bottle of Citadel Colour Orc Brown? And some Hobgoblin Orange? Shocked Pikachu face!

[@jeremiahsafford1389]

14:36 Between that face on the shield and Blanche's orc (?) with a Mona Lisa banner, I think there's a Tilean portrait painter captured by a tribe somewhere.

[@greystorm9974]

Another great video. You are one of the best content creators in this space

[@jordansorcery]

Thank you!

[@pISSUMTREE]

Orcs..my first real WFB army. It all started when I purchased a Orc command blister. Remember looking through a wall of blisters and choosing the right one? Later my local game store got a early box that had 5 orcs with swords/shield and 5 with bows. 2 boxed of these and bam I was off ! Great memories for sure !

[@mattiainternullo522]

One of the best video about greenskins' miniatures and story I had ever seen, mate. Great great great and... Great work!!! By a not-so-young old-school warhammer player 😊

[@Mark-nh2hs]

Grom (4th ed) is my fave Goblin mini it captures the humour of the species and his massive Axe - perfect.

[@batjutsu]

miniature = The Orc Villagers, especially tired, glutton, or two drunk orcs. Custom is Paul Benson's Orc War Mammoth! 🐘 Thanks for a great deep dive. Great to be reminded of old lore, plus, even better, learning new things! Squeak-squeak! 🤩🐀🌠 🪄🧟 🐀

[@ernestgraves4401]

Very interesting! As allways! Love your videos❤

[@bern2033]

I have a big big orc/goblin army. I have a huge orc unit 8x6 all in metall all different and I love every single one of them.

[@frodegundersen6728]

Graeme Davis has said that he was the first to use “WAAAGH” as an orc/ork battlecry.

[@jordansorcery]

That’s super interesting, do you remember where he said that?

[@TheBoyFromNorfolk]

I'm sorry I havent a clue reference not missed by me. A blast from my childhood dinner time.

[@Rabarbarzynca]

4th edition was so glorious - doomdivers, squigs and the best spell template ever. Still got this book stashed somewhere. 😂

[@carlosmauriciogranadarojas8203]

I really love your videos! Thank you very much for your great work!

[@PinnacleOfDecadence]

@gobcastpod went on a similar venture to find out why Goblins are green. Interesting to see this topic come up again with so much research 😮 great video

[@icebearcriminal1265]

It's interesting because there's examples of designers of the era painting varying skin tones and even Citadel Orc miniatures presented similarly in art like that for the Lone Wolf mini sets but green seems so ubiquitous for Warhammer proper.

[@Perchpole]

I got a special collectors gold orc in the Grenadier Orcs Lair set. I bought it from the GW in Sheffield. They wouldn't let you out of the shop without opening the box!

[@kingwiku9735]

I still love those original metal Forest Goblin spider riders. The spiders are so CUTE! They remind me more of squigs, and are far less insectoid than the current ones.

[@SamuraiMujuru]

The bat-winged loony lobber is truly a classic. I don't even play greenskins and I'm tempted to nab one of the made-to-order ones.

[@andrewjamieson7178]

Excellent video! Kudos on using the word 'melange' ... Always will have a place in my heart for the original heroquest orcs & goblins. Do like the kruleboyz, with regards to newer releases.

[@DerOrk]

As an O&G fan for whom most of this stuff was before their time, thanks for this. I actually learned a thing or two. Though I would have loved to hear where terms like "boy" or "choppa" first came up. Though I reckon it originates in 40k.

[@ironbomb6753]

Brother, Jordan Sorcery is the closest we'll ever get those wonderful days again. I'm fortunate enough to have been in the game back then, but dumb enough not to have purchased many of these great old figures.

[@danbrown2473]

Even as a Dwarf player, I loved the armies and lore for the Orcs and Gobbos. there is just so much variety. Ever faces 500 pts of Snotlings and units of 100 Stikkas on a hill???

[@jahnhermansen8000]

I just assumed WAAAGH was just pronounced like war. You know, like the orcs are gathering for a big war, following the warboss

[@watchm4ker]

It is. Just drop your voice an octave and yell it as loud as you can. You'll know you're doing it right if you can't make it all the way to the end without gasping for air or your voice cracking under the strain.

[@Tom_Quixote]

Not growing up as a native English speaker, I never realised this back when I was a kid.

[@railwayjade]

To this day I love Orcs as opponents. For me, it started with the Warcraft PC game then later I got the 6th Ed WHFB starter set

[@PeachyPixel28]

Oh wow. the whole fungus things comes from Gorkamorka? that's cool. I love the fact-nuggets this channel inserts into my brain.

[@Yurt_enthusiast7]

Gods! it's really hard to choose one favourite model from one of the greatest ranges GW has ever made, but the equally beleaguered and belligerent crew of the current Rock lobba is really really good. Speaking of great ranges, are we going to see a similar video about the Dwarfs? Prince Ulther and his Dragon company was something I didn't know about before this weeks sneek peeks from GW.

[@jordansorcery]

I’m hoping to do something similar for most of The Old World armies as they release, if I can pull them together in time!

[@bob_jim6584]

This is great content, keep it coming !

[@waaaghzag]

Legend has it, Ansell had a nightmare about Orcs. He woke up suddenly, screaming "Waaagh!" 🤪

[@SimonProctor]

I love the original Snotling Pump Wagon. I had one as a kid and one of the guys at my local club has one, every time I see it on the battlefield I have to stop and admire. If they do a limited made to order version of it I will be getting one and I have no plans to get an Ork army.

[@SusCalvin]

I think the pump wagon had the usual randomness of orc rules. A chariot with random movement forward.

[@SimonProctor]

@@SusCalvin I don't want a pump wagon to play with (well.... Part of me wants to field as many of them and snotlings as I'm allowed for giggles)... But really I just want to have one to build and for all the nostalgia.

[@SusCalvin]

@@SimonProctorOrc rules might seem random and silly now, but they were a lot more chaotic in older games. I don't know how these armies played when so much of the magic and unit animosity and movement is random. They had spells where a giant green Monty Python foot stomps random units. Doom divers could try to adjust how they landed a little bit. Unit animosity could make a regiment stall and take wounds as well as make them race ahead.

[@SimonProctor]

@@SusCalvin oh I know. I've still got my 2nd edition books ;) I just really like the original pump wagon model for nostalgia reasons.

[@DarkWaveLovers]

You mention no more Red Goblins but last Xmas (2023) had Da Red Gobbo as part of Warhammer festive cartoons It was great seeing a Red boy back

[@darnokx9277]

Entirely different red goblins! The ones mentioned in this video were a specific breed of goblins with red skin (giving them their name). The one you bring up is based on a character originally from the "Gorkamorka" game (more specifically: its expansion "Digganob"): a grot called "Da Red Gobbo" who is leading other grots in a "revolushn" against the oppression of the Orks. This "Red Gobbo" had some later incarnations here and there, with that Xmas model being the most recent one.

[@Yurt_enthusiast7]

​@darnokx9277 could still be a reference back in Gorkomorka to the fabled red goblins, they really like re-using names after all.

[@ja37d-34]

When Brian Nelson came in... They became real cool... A little less cartoony and a little mroe brutal. Still love those that popped up in late 5th Ed WHFB and 3rd Ed 40k the most.. The Brian nelson Boar Boyz actually came in along with The Idol of Gork along with some other stuff. The plastuc multipart Orc Warriors are also late 5th Ed. With metal command pieces that were replaced with the plastic command sprue of 6th Ed. The boar boyz command was also updated with a new musician and a banner bearer that was more an icon.. Monor but.. stuff happened with Brian Nelson late 5th Ed, about two years - and in some cases, even further back, before the "new" look in 6th Ed.. :)

[@Cranacti]

There needs to be a super like button. Awesome job 🎉

[@thomasparker6124]

Very minor correction (I think) 32:00 - Squigs comming from Tyranids. 1E' 40K's Waaargh: Orks released in 1990 I believe had the first mention of "Squigs or Squiggly Beasts" and their important role in Greenskin society. My entirely legitimate pdf copy of Advanced Space Crusade doesn't mention Squigs, but does have the Grabber-Slashers. Tyranid Assassin bio-forms that use Ork DNA. Advanced Space Crusade was where I believe the Tyranids first became as we understand them (with their proto-form in the 1E Rogue Trader Corerulebook) I think the Squigs being Tyranid creations from Orks that then got rescued and adopted was solely in White Dwarf 145 (January 1992) which published the Tyranid Army list for 1E. This was after Advanced Space Crusade.

[@johnclarke25]

Sorry to say but it was the grudge of drong that was the dwarf civil war as mcdeath featured knights,dwarfs and highlanders against evil King and Queen with orks,evil clansmen and even a tree man on the good side,still have all the campaign boxes plus all the figures for the games although only have bloodbath range complete along with proberly 4 to 500 orcs and Goblins from all the ranges but great vid again and fun to view again.

[@kabalcrom589]

Amazing video again Jordan. Can’t wait for the green skin releases although I’m confused as to why the giant release looks different to the old marauder giant? Are they meant to be different?

[@pietrogigliotti8365]

Great video as always. I always wondered if the round and red appearence of squigs influenced or were influenced by bounders from child toy and cartoon the adventures of teddy ruxpin. They are visually the same creatures

[@PatS152]

Another great video Jordan. If I may ask do you have any information about the Warhammet Forge book the Battle of Black Fire Pass? What was suppose to be in the book specifically.

[@John_on_the_mountain]

The first place ive ever seen WAAGH! written is in Jim Bridger: Mountain, a biography, written by Stanley Vestal in 1970, talking about how Jim Bridger described the warcry of the natives. WAAAAGGHH!!!

[@JJtoutcourt]

I noticed a mistake in the video, spider riders where back since at least 7th edition, not 8th.

[@stethespaniard2]

Why would I like and subscribe before viewing the content?

[@RemingtonSteelewarhammer]

This channel is awesome❤

[@sirvivor7835]

How's the cardio scheme working out?

[@Aurora07]

Ere we go ere we go ere we GO!

[@KateHolden]

I didn't know squigs were originally tyranids and my mind is blown.

[@williammoore9794]

I've still got my Psycho Styrene Dwarves and the Fantasy Regiments models. Although clearly not as good as today's models, the Fantasy Regiments Orcs aren't too bad. Probably about the same quality as Heroquest. Drastik Plastik orcs were not very good by comparison. They made a big deal of having interchangeable arms but it didn't look very good when glued in place. I've also still got White Dwarf 101. In the letters page someone asks why Orcs are green when they should be black. John Blanche said the colour scheme was based on what Kev Adams looked like the morning after a big session at the pub. Which is probably just as likely a reason as any other! 😅

[@ClydeMillerWynant]

Fantasy Regiments is such a weird set - what use really were ten each from five different armies? One of the things I look back at and wonder why did I buy that. I guess it was a sort of glimpse into the plastic future though that turned out to be a bit further away than they suggested. Agree that the figures are OK though.

[@williammoore9794]

@@ClydeMillerWynant it was probably as simple as a load of "evil" models vs "good" (although a slight imbalance in the numbers). Although army lists had come out at the time, anecdotally I think a lot of people were still playing battles where the evil forces fought the good forces. I remember a battle report from a White Dwarf in the late 80s (107 perhaps?) where a bunch of gamers did an epic 24 hour charity WFB battle. I'm pretty sure it was chaos, undead and orcs against humans, dwarves and elves.

[@ClydeMillerWynant]

@@williammoore9794 I remember the 24 hour thing, it might almost have been the first 'Battle Report' as opposed to the scenarios that you got before that. I guess scenarios became less the thing to do as the game moved away from having a GM, but although I thoroughly enjoyed many battle reports I think that change was a bit of a shame. I certainly played a couple of battles of good against evil - I've only ever owned twenty dark elves (the ten from 'Regiments' and a set of pre-slotta Mengil Manhide's) and they definitely saw action!

[@TheGeneralGarcia]

My friends and I loved that Fantasy Regiments boxed set, we'd come from Blood Bowl, and had been using BB models up until we found a few of those sets. Game changing!

[@Choom89]

BEASTMEN NEXT, BRAYHERD!

[@DamBrooks]

Gorkamorka is a brilliant player focused game. People should play it especially as the rules are available in the public domain.

[@SusCalvin]

Gorkamorka and old Necromunda are like skirmish level holdovers from 2nd ed. I think this was the right scale for these rules.

[@DamBrooks]

@@SusCalvin I liked the narrative growing game of it, it only needed a definite end game goal to work towards, either time constraint or a Mob sized conclusion with possibly a DM to oversee it. Maybe I just love being in control too much but I don’t think so and if you do then I have a penalty for your Mob…

[@SusCalvin]

@@DamBrooks The default one was to simply rise to the top. A character who reaches 400 xp in Necromunda moves beyond the scope of the game and into a higher station in the house. I come out of the old school regional/dungeon/urban crawling tradition where the players must set that goal. I can't tell them what they are supposed to do, only judicate the world. So I would not worry too much about what the players want to do, only on how I can make the hive around them an interesting, living place. Like who are the places of interest in their local hive sector, what other factions hang out, what kind of people do they talk to. How to do all the non-wargame things would be interesting. They might want to stake out a place, go talk with a dude, steal stuff and map out a place. In Gorkamorka you suddenly have cars, and your Leadership is suddenly the drive car skill. But older 1st ed still has intelligence and stuff as character attributes. Like they are closer to WFRP characters in a bit.

[@DamBrooks]

@@SusCalvin as I said I only began in 2nd edition 40k but quickly got a bit bored of just playing the typical two armies fighting for nothing other than winning/losing so Gorkamorka had a bit more character yet even that didn’t have as much as Blood Bowl had, this was also all in the 90s as I had left it all behind because I had moved out of home and was involved in bands and political activities, raving and other dubious activities as was my want as a bloke in his 20s that had, almost in the words of the young Bill Bailey, moved to the city so many other new and shiny things caught my eye and so it wasn’t until my child wanted to play Blood Bowl that I bothered with tabletop gaming again, now I am just trying to learn how 40k works again although I haven’t a painted army yet as I have spent some of the last six or so years playing BB in league and tournament games because at least I find it amusing.

[@SusCalvin]

@@DamBrooks Gorkamorka and Necromunda are still wargames, with a clear way to see who wins and loses a skirmish. If my orks got five scrap and yours two I can declare a lead. Gorkamorka has a campaign game where your losses subsist, my victory or loss includes the injuries to my orks and if an expensive bike was blown up. Blood Bowl is silly and fun. The stakes are smaller to the characters when it's a sport. I don't see why it would have more or less roleplaying. You can decide to roleplay your models in a Necromunda skirmish game with a ref/arbitrator running the greater hive sector around you. Then you can outline locations and non-player factions and people of importance and sector events for the player gangs to deal with. I could make a sector event table and roll. The atmosphere processor is malfunctioning, there's a 2 in 6 your territories become airless if you don't fix this. But the tech-guild operating this fan will owe a huge favor to whomever brings them the McGuffin and you'll get free drinks at the pub for at least a couple days. Or the arbitrators from uphive are really worried about something, more of them have shown up and one player even plays a newly constructed precinct-fort. Oh no, turns out they are looking for a genestealer hybrid cult and one of the player gangs may or may not be one. And then you have an excuse to make up a couple scenaros where hybrid cultists or a real live genestealer are mucking about with the gangs. The arbites player knows a little more, the genestealer-infested gang obviously knows the full deal. One of my friends thinks skirmish games like Necromunda, Inquisitor, Killteam, Mordheim and Gorkamorka work perfectly well as skirmish-RPGs. You just need to pay more attention to events between firefights. My gang could decide we go talk with a bloke in a stall, and that might or might not lead to a firefight with them and their guards. But the parts that aren't a pure wargame are what you need to pay attention to to make it the best of both. In Inquisitor, they started to get ideas of how to frame skirmishes with, or create skirmishes from, the investigation your inquisitors ran. The firefight should be a direct result of the roleplaying and investigation, not the other way around.

[@thomassaxon8254]

I do wish that they'd expanded on goblin ecology with the hill etc goblins.

[@johanderyck6598]

So is there a link between warhammer squigs and the ‘squigs’ in the 80’s cartoon The Adventures of Teddy Ruxpin?

[@dm51964]

Old World Fantasy Orcs and Goblins are far better than whatever they are called now in Sigmar and the old sculpts are far better...Kevin Adams Orcs, Goblins and Snotlings will never be bettered

[@ClydeMillerWynant]

I believe Kev Adams kept going after leaving GW and you can still get orcs and goblins from other companies he works/worked for.

[@dm51964]

He is still sculpting for various people. When I worked at the Citadel design studio in the late 80's Kevin was always great to chat to and listen to his ideas on Goblins, Orcs and Snotlings and some of the sculpts were never produced as Kevin's humour was sometimes a bit too much for some to handle lol.@@ClydeMillerWynant

[@ClydeMillerWynant]

@@dm51964 I saw some advertised the other day, just wasn't sure how old the sculpts would be but sounds like they probably are new then. Great that he's still doing it!

[@dm51964]

@@Vasily_Kotickovitch I dont hate anything. I just prefer the older sculpts and the work of Kevin Adams

[@cook--E]

Guessing it was just an orcy derivitation of "war", which was the style at the time 😂

[@lostinspace466]

Over the years I’ve come to love Orcs the most it seems. I don’t know why, I’m just drawn to the idea.

[@BrinkmanCrafts]

Very interesting, thank you! I have one question though, why did Citadel have an early color called Orc Brown? I always thought it was because orc skin from the beginning was this color, ut apparently it wasn't. It was anyways an awful color that I couldn't use for anything.

[@Doramian]

Hi @jordansorcery , I love your channel and follow your videos with pleasure ! You were asking when Wagghhh term has been coined, I can at least tell you where it is most probably coming from. French word "wave" is told "vague" which is pronouced... "vag", very similar to english "wag". "Orks wave" (like in human wave" is therefore told "vague d'orks"... knowing Games natural taste for french things, you clearly sees here the obvious link.

[@olith]

Be good to see your impression of a Doom Diver at some point.