Joseph Smith's Bible Translation and Effective Evangelism, by Kurt Van Gorden

[@gardeeoh]

I wear a Crucifix on a chain not to honor a torture device as you say, but to remind me that our Lord made His sacrifice on the cross to take away my sins and give me an opportunity for Eternal life. Every time I see it or feel it I am reminded of what He did for me and the love He had for me to go through what he did for me.

[@betJohnson]

God would never give us a Bible that has errors. He's perfect!

[@freemanrebel2]

I thank God for all the lds folks who get on these videos to comment. You are already down the path and you don't even know it. God is doing a work in you; no matter how long it takes when you come out of Mormonism He is going to use you to reach back and pull your loved ones out as well. The bible says the truth sets us free; that grace and truth comes through Jesus Christ and he is life and truth. When you seek the truth, you seek after the Jesus of the bible; and the only Jesus that saves.

[@missriina84]

Good message I sat down and wrote down the notes in this video so when I come across mormon then I will have lots of notes to share with the truth about the True Jesus that He is the way the truth the life

[@awolLDSasap]

@urloony What is your response to Josephs changing of Rev 19:15 against the clear condemnation of Rev 22: 18-19?

[@suggesttwo]

The first chapter in almost every book in the new testament speaks of the divinity of Christ.

[@HerdingDogRescuer]

Great video!

[@GiftoAll]

Well done Aaron. Thanks again. LDS members need to watch all of these after they watch the lds conference.

[@EXALTEDDIRT]

Are you good enough to enter heaven? Ever lied? Ever stolen? Ever looked at a person with lust? Ever used God's name in vain or as a curse word? If you have, then God sees you as a lying, thieving, blasphemous adulterer at heart and you must face God on judgment day. Revelation 21v8 says; "All liars will have their part in the lake of fire" The bible says; "No thief, adulterer, or blasphemer will enter" The guilty will end up in Hell. That is not God's will. You broke God's laws but Jesus paid you're fine! Repent, turn from sin, and trust in Christ alone

[@deskjockie49]

Yes, the Mormon 'prophets' and 'false teachers' have the same problem. "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." Galatians 1:8

[@korydemoss5366]

Is there a website we can get a copy of the handouts from this talk?

[@SpielbergMichael]

Great video!

[@Kelly4370]

I pass out business cards stating the statements > "Bible Only" > "Galatians 1:8-9" & "Salvation > Romans 10:9", then they state these Biblical Scriptures...

[@dabish2888]

I love how Kurt is presenting evidence, showing the errors of mormonism and the response by mormons is something like - he's a liar or he's misinformed. Many mormons (God bless them) are just incapable of reason it seems. I admit that we all have our traditions and biases, and that no one is exempt from this, but if you show me where I am wrong through evidence, I have to consider it. I will certainly look into it! Not so with our mormon friends by in large. This is a powerful, mind-controlling cult!

[@johncornelius7614]

How re you brother kurt. I live in Payson Az. now. Praise God! Lets Talk. john cornelius.

[@awolLDSasap]

@urloony Footnotes like Josephs translation of the Bible?

[@TheYungapostle]

What did you learn about the bible? i have questions regarding LDS church.

[@awolLDSasap]

@urloony Who gave us the correct information? Who lied and commited adultery? What occured just before and during the earthly demise of these 2 individuals?

[@awolLDSasap]

@urloony I SAID JOSEPHS TRANSLATION OF THE BIBLE CHANGED THE WORDS IN REVELATION! I never said anything about the earliest manuscripts. Do you want to talk about the small errors they found in the King James and these same ERRORS are found in the bookofmoreman?

[@mckster56]

Amen

[@Toppo2099]

That's a packed house.

[@OEMPlus]

@urloony did i say there are originals? dude, consistency is evident in the finished work. you need to look at the manuscript evidence, their historicity, and their authenticity verified by even SECULAR SCHOLARS before you continue. i encourage you to learn more. you want to say the bible is inconsistent... but can't validate that claim on any level.

[@OEMPlus]

@urloony not having autographies but having 20000 fragments of autographies resolves that issue completely.

[@1961darrylsh]

maybe he just didnt have his rock in a hat that day?

[@truthforsaints1]

Kurt Van Gorden is a great Bible teacher...one of the best, hands down.

[@1961darrylsh]

muslims, mormons, Jehovah Witness dont like crosses! remember Pauls words: The message of the CROSS is foolishness to those that perish,

[@1961darrylsh]

funny how Joseph Smith didnt know those verse were added or changed? Didnt he copy exactly from mark into BOM i belive?

[@awolLDSasap]

There is 1 gospel. The infinite God said that it would last forever. It has NOT been lost and it most certainly didn't need to be restored. An easy way to convict Joseph of being a false prophet is through his removal and insertion of words to the book of Revelation. Rev. 22 says that Joseph has been condemned.

[@1961darrylsh]

not to mention the witness testimonies: word for word and phrase for phrase from god and wouldnt change unless it was correct.

[@deskjockie49]

Richard Holmes, I think you are the one who is misinformed

[@1961darrylsh]

I didn't know the bible taught they would teach another gospel and another Jesus in the latter days but it does. It says test it against the scriptures like the Bereans did, not pray for a good feeling. 1Kings ch 22 King Ahab sent for another word from God after rejecting his word and God allowed a lying deceiving spirit to go and decieve him. It only cost him his life as its going to cost you. By NO other NAME! I AM THE TRUTH THE LIFE THE WAY! I love you mormon.

[@awolLDSasap]

@urloony Since you are a student of language, lets see a few of these changes that will prove everything Joseph invented was accurate. FYI, Peter, James and John never held any priesthood. The foundation in heaven has "12" apostles chosen by Jesus, to represent the 12 tribes of Israel. No more apostles.

[@1961darrylsh]

So give an example of something left out of the bible since there is so much? That's a lie you have been told your whole life to support the fable and another gospel you follow. Ever read Galations? ch 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before,so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed or DAMNED! HE SAYS IT TWICE!

[@gbantock]

Ironically, although the Reorganised Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints was the Mormon group which first published the Inspired Version (a.k.a. Joseph Smith Translation), the RLDS Community of Christ now uses it very little. In fact, nowadays, they seldom use the AV (KJV) Bible either. While some RLDS authors and members use the NIV (and other modern) translations, it is the NRSV which they thus favour most. That Bible is not best, but it`s by far superior to the Inspired Version!

[@1961darrylsh]

the problem is the witnesses report that it came word for word or phrase for phrase from god and woudlnt change until written correctly! ...Then explain why married women who were living with their husbands married JS and then BY after JS died in gunfight all the while they were married and living with their husbands? Their husbands would be conveniently sent on missions? VERIFIED at family search org! Who they gonna be married to in heaven?

[@awolLDSasap]

@urloony Who are you going to believe? Joseph, who lied to his wife, his friends and the congregation, or Jesus, "who is God"? Jesus was the true prophet and continually repeated and fulfilled the Old Testament prophecies.

[@awolLDSasap]

"Joseph and Christ"? Joseph shared a bottle of wine and recieved 2 guns from a friend. Jesus was beaten. Joseph tried to fight off the intruders and killed 2. Jesus was sent through the streets and scorned. Joseph jumped through a window calling the Masonic distress. Jesus told the thief he would see him in paradise and asked God to forgive his persecuters.

[@urloony]

I’m not disputing that the original manuscript was written word for word as dictated by JS. The point that you are missing is that the 1830 edition was not printed from the original MS, but rather from a second hand-copied Printer’s MS written by Oliver Cowdery. Errors crept into the text of OC’s Printer’s MS as well as in the type setting done by the printer himself. The 1830 edition is at least twice removed from the original MS.

[@awolLDSasap]

Why was Joseph killed? To restore lost things? NO. He was attacked by Masons, husbands and other people angered by his theocratic rule. The last straw was the Nauvoo expositor which was going to provide facts about Josephs nerfarious acts. Deu 18:20 But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.

[@urloony]

@anonazero Nice try. But you are misinformed. There are no autographs. Where do you get the number 20,000 from? I am aware of approximately 5700 NT fragments, and a handful of manuscripts. Having an enormous amount of variants HINDERS the problem it doesn't help it. The issue is far from resolved and represents precisely the problem at hand.

[@gbantock]

I k,now what you mean about the continuing attraction, socially and otherwise, with the cult before one had become Christian. I finally figured out that, because of childhood participation in L.D.S. Mormonism and my long family history of Mormonism and Utah, that I was and remain "culturally Mormon", but I don`t believe any of its religious teachings that conflict with the Bible. Mormonism has a vigourous cultural life and presence, partly good, and I don`t have to reject that side of it.

[@awolLDSasap]

loony How do you explain God telling Abraham to lie about his wife in the D&C? In Genisis, Abram makes up the lie. The almighty God of Israel doesn't tell people to lie.

[@urloony]

You are correct the 1830 edition of 1Nephi 12;18 states “Jesus Christ which is the Lamb of God” This was changed by JS for the 1837 edition of the BoM to “the Messiah which is the Lamb of God” The 1830 and Printer’s ms state “king Benjamin had a gift” at Mosiah 21;28. This again was changed by JS to “king Mosiah” in the 1837 edition. The title page explicitly states that the record is not inerrant. “If there be fault it be the mistake of men; wherefore condemn not the things of God.”

[@Toppo2099]

@61MAF Actually Nahom has been found.

[@urloony]

The fact is that the Bible has been changed, added to, and taken away from. To what degree can only be determined as we discovered more NT fragments and mss.

[@urloony]

@aaronshaf2006 Terrible logic, but typical of the EV. Thousands of manuscripts with hundreds of thousands of variants some of which COMPLETELY disagree with the small amount of fragments we have from the 2nd and 3rdC. Those early papyrus are the ones EV's like to ignore. Those variants are relegated to footnotes in your NIV as "no big deal" right? We don't know what the originals said, and we have numerous variants in the text as a result. Many of which are SIGNIFICANT differences.

[@urloony]

@awolLDSasap "The almighty, infinite Lord promised the apostles they would remember what to write and his word would last FOREVER" The problem isnt whether or not what the Apostles first wrote were the words of God, its the fact that they were not preserved. If the words truly were preserved forever, why dont we have them?

[@urloony]

You honestly think that what is preached today in Evangelical churches is what Jesus preached 2000 years ago? Think about that claim. Changes and additions to the Bible are a point of fact, there isn’t much to prove here. Consider the addition of Mark 16;9-20, and the addition of John 7;53-8;11. Both of these scriptures are significant and the subject of numerous sermons every week. Another significant change/addition is 1John 5;7-8.

[@urloony]

@awolLDSasap Again, your ignorance of Biblical manuscript evidence and textual variants precedes you. The earliest fragments we have come from several papyri, with the majority of the fragmentary text on P47 and P115 and come from the 3rdC and 4thC. We don't find the full text until much much later. The assumption that we somehow have the original text "John" wrote is false. Furthermore the textual variants IE, the changes made by others, far exceed any "changes" JS made to the text.

[@urloony]

There has never been a claim of BoM inerrancy. I have no problem whatsoever with you indicating the errors. Have you examined the work of Royal Skousen? Biblical inerrancy is faith claim that cannot be demonstrated with objective evidence.

[@urloony]

@anonazero Spare me. You have no idea what you're talking about and attempt to lecture me on something you have clearly never examined. Explain why P66, the Vaticanus, nor the Sanaiticus contain the pericope of the woman taken in adultery, yet it still appears in our modern additions. Modern translations now footnote the fact this was a later addition by a scribe and not original. What about Mark 16? Is this your idea of consistency? No one knows what's original and what isn't.

[@urloony]

@awolLDSasap "The almighty, infinite Lord promised the apostles they would remember what to write and his word would last FOREVER" I have no problem at all if you want to believe that. However that is a statement of FAITH not FACT. You must realize that there is absolutely no evidence to support your claim. All the evidence we do have is to the contrary. I make no claims regarding the inerrancy of any scripture Bible or otherwise.

[@gardeeoh]

We do not have original manuscripts (plates), that is the ultimate failure of B of M inerrancy. It is a false premise. If you ever want to know the hundreds and hundreds of errors in the B of M, the "most correct book ever written". contact me loony.

[@urloony]

You are welcome to "go on" as much as you want, but I don't think you've truly examined any of these issues but rather are relying on what you hope to be some inherent shock value to the fact that there have been changes to the BoM. Mormons are not inerrantists. We don't believe the Bible nor the BoM to be inerrant.

[@urloony]

Changes made to the Bible is hardly a "Mormon Conspiracy." You are merely trying to distract from the very relevant issue of Biblical inerrancy by attempting to make it a Mormon issue.

[@jeabo0adhd]

The Mormons ordained black people. It was not racist. The Book of Mormon says that you will not be punished for the sins of your fathers. One fault in the his argument.

[@urloony]

Joseph Smith instituted polyandry and polygamy as a prophet. There isn’t any explaining to do there. You simply accept it or reject it as a matter of faith. You should bear in mind however that if you reject JS as a prophet because of polygamy be prepared to condemn a number of OT prophets as well including Moses, Jacob and Gideon to name a few.

[@urloony]

It’s very difficult to believe that you have been misled for your entire life and that you haven’t had the whole truth and that the truth has been lost from the world for almost two millennia. That is a HUGE dilemma. You are so wrapped up in pointing out what is wrong with everyone else’s beliefs you haven’t truly examined your own. I’m afraid there is a lot that has been left out of the Bible. Once you come to that realization and begin asking God for truth you can begin your journey.

[@urloony]

All of these videos, as do all EV's come from the false premise that the Bible is the inerrant word of God. The conclusion of course being that IF the Bible is inerrant THEN Joseph Smith, the BoM, the JST are all false. The presenter in this video goes so far as to assure his audience that the Bibles in their hands are inerrant. There are always going to be ignorant EV's that lap this stuff up.

[@camtep2you]

TOTALLY BORING

[@blrite]

Read the Book of Mormon and pray and you will not be so foolish.