Joseph Smith's water-walking fail: legit, or just another legend? Ep. 194

Stories have been circulating for almost 200 years now about the Latter-day Saint prophet, Joseph Smith, attempting (and failing miserably) to walk on water. Is there any truth to these stories? That’s the question David explores in this episode.
Video transcript: saintsunscript...
- “Walking on Water: Nineteenth-Century Prophets and a Legend of Religious Imposture,” by Stanley J. Thayne, in Journal of Mormon History, Vol. 36, No. 2 (Spring 2010), pg. 160-204: bit.ly/3KGPziI
- “Walking-on-Water Stories and Other Susquehanna River Folk Tales about Joseph Smith,” by J. Taylor Hollist: bit.ly/3Z7Jssa
Notes:
- In Stanley Thayne’s article (linked above) he also points out that similar claims were made against other controversial religious leaders around Joseph Smith’s time, including Jemima Wilkinson, John Wroe, and James Fisher.
- After reciting the walking-on-water tale, Fawn Brodie wrote, “Baseless though this story may be, it is none the less symbolic.” Hugh Nibley responded in 1946, “The reader is told that though no justification exists for believing the story, Joseph Smith must always have been doing silly things like that, and that makes it ‘symbolic.’ Why bother with mere symbols? Why not give the concrete examples? Can she do no better than to cite a tale that is known to be false simply because it symbolizes her idea of Joseph Smith?” Source: “Tinkling Symbols and Sounding Brass,” Hugh Nibley, pg. 32.
- These stories became so prevalent that in about 1933 a New York State “historic” marker was actually posted at the Broome/Chenango County line (near Nineveh, NY) which read, “Joseph Smith, Founder of Mormonism, Endeavored in 1827 to Walk on Water Nearby, The Venture Was Not a Success.” The marker is no longer standing. Hollist gives additional details about this in the article linked above.
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[@ClintRay2578]

There are so many stories that are coming up today about Joseph Smith that I've never heard in the 38 years of being in the church and randomly people know more than me about the church history 😅

[@outof_obscurity]

I learned so many things like "Emma wasn't his first wife." I learned if it isn't in writing it's not credible. All the history tells she was.

[@whatsup3270]

@@outof_obscurity "first" did you mean to tell that story

[@roberthaskins2220]

[EDIT]Internet communication sucks. My comment (and, of course, since I wrote it, I did as well) apparently missed the tone of the video and conversation. My apologies.[/EDIT]

[@whatsup3270]

@@roberthaskins2220 Though this video was more of a funny than a serious matter, that is not always the case.

[@GwPoKo]

@@mikkifrompreston4396 shhh don't let Jeremy Runnels hear about more gospel topic essays. That was big and scary for him!

[@shoppingwiththedevil]

I’m an exmormon and while I still don’t think the church is for me, this video added a lot more detail to that story than I originally heard. Thank you for shedding some more light!

[@SaintsUnscripted]

You're welcome!

[@SaintsUnscripted]

@@james8996 Sorry I'm not sure what you're referring to.

[@germanslice]

@@james8996 The Lord said in a parable that the Gospel would be taken away from the Jews and given out to another nation that would bear the fruits thereof. That is why there would be a restoration of the gospel in the last days to give the gospel out to another nation. Which John Saw in Revelations 14:7.

[@jugatsu23nichi]

Hey, I love your videos! My niece is a missionary at temple square (Sister Anderson) and shared a picture of her and her companion with you and Jeff (Hello Saints). Keep up the great work! These videos are beautifully edited!

[@davidsnell2605]

I remember! It was quite the coincidence. She had messaged me on Facebook with a question a week or two earlier, and then we happened to bump into her and her companion just across the street from temple square. She seems like a great missionary! She's got the light.

[@jugatsu23nichi]

@@davidsnell2605 Thanks David!! That means a lot!

[@janicemiller9133]

Honestly this is the funniest thing I have ever seen from you guys. Keep it up… brilliant!! I know it’s not true that Joseph Smith walked on water but the presentation… classic!!

[@SaintsUnscripted]

Thanks!

[@outof_obscurity]

"I'm going to burp! Excuse me!" "Joseph walked on the great salt lake" 😂 This is now my favorite video 😂

[@archangel_one]

Sure, he was a scoundrel who made things up, but that doesn't mean he didn't walk on water! I'm sure all those stories of miracles that Joseph did are just as true!

[@outof_obscurity]

@@archangel_one perhaps if he actually did them. This walking on water is just a telephone game lie. He stepped on a log, and someone else told someone else, told someone else, who said he walked on water. Yeah definitely the same as raising the dead or healing the sick by the priesthood from Jesus 😂.

[@archangel_one]

@@outof_obscurity They sometimes forget that in discounting the walking on water stories, that they also discount all the miracle stories.

[@ts-900]

Actually, he used submarine barges that were built tight like a dish. Or so it has been rumored.😏

[@ts-900]

Maybe you can help me understand something. If we logically applied everything that you apply to Joseph Smith, in his defense, to myself rather than to Joseph, then wouldn't that make me some kind of UberGod? Which, personally, I believe would be out-right blasphemy, and we wouldn't want to do that, right? But aren't you efficaciously doing that, with Joseph? Making it impossible for Joseph Smith to effectively to be held accountable before us or God for his sins and crimes?

[@simon_carrick8198]

Whoever does the editing for this channel is really, really good at their job. (Time to ask for a raise? ;)

[@SaintsUnscripted]

They do do a great job, don't they?

[@deborahlofgran5636]

I love your videos (and your sense of humor). Thank you for all of your research and proving false statements. I wish I would know what to say to people when negative statements are said when I am present. I am a convert and the only member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in my family. I have had to defend the Church since the day I joined. Sometimes it gets difficult so it's good to hear these explanations. oh, and everybody. burps.

[@hrv4908]

Keep the faith, sister, nothing in this world is worth your soul.

[@hrv4908]

The devil will always convince the weak to help him try to thwart the Lord's work. There will be many sorry souls who chose evil over good.

[@102wingnut]

My Father in Law lived in the NY area and collected a lot of stories about Joseph walking on water. Almost every little town in the southern tier has a story about something that Smith did there, including the "walking on water" stunts with various versions. It's interesting to see how much folklore built up in the area about the Prophet.

[@ts-900]

Chances are that the story is true, but got around in various versions. After all, it matches his character 100%.

[@brettmajeske3525]

I have always been curious why people have felt the need to make stories, as if Joseph's claims were not enough.

[@dwRS1]

Maybe because Joseph's stories are true. People have always persecuted the prophets.

[@benzun9600]

Yeah like seeing God and angels is not enough

[@dwRS1]

@@benzun9600 yeah

[@whatsup3270]

@@dwRS1 usually for taking money and underage girls, but what is the point in being a prophet without underage girls

[@dwRS1]

@@whatsup3270 I'm glad you were there. Prophets have always been persecuted by ignorant people.

[@RyanMercer]

Spring is sprung

[@danno5645]

You do a very important work making these videos. History is complex, as you know. It is difficult for the average person to make sense of claims like this. You make it so digestible and enjoyable to watch. Thanks for all of your efforts, and the efforts of all who have part in the production of these videos!

[@ARAZTXTN]

Thanks for this video and all the research! I've come across this story online with exmo's. There was so much info being thrown at me and not enough time for me to research it all. This was needed.

[@Timmyjg2004]

Exactly, ex Mormons always say sooo much false stuff that could seem true and if people don’t do actual research to debunk them, they’ll be tricked

[@ts-900]

Don't worry about it, Joseph Smith is absolutely perfect and can do no wrong. Just because the story 100% matches Joseph's character and religion is meaningless.

[@rsstnnr76]

If you're going to walk on water, the Salt Lake would be a good place to start. More buoyancy. 😂

[@SaintsUnscripted]

🧂💧🚶‍♂️ haha!

[@greggsutton3363]

😂👍

[@AhS84101]

I really enjoyed reading the research done by J. Taylor Hollist. Thank you for the link.

[@calebraines4321]

Great Video SU!

[@SaintsUnscripted]

Thanks!

[@angelinavickers8584]

Thank you - nice to know someone has uncommon sense and can discern truth from error.

[@larryfrakous1332]

That AI art is awesome. It almost makes me wanna believe it 😂

[@taylor_su]

I know right? I felt the same way!

[@ts-900]

More credibility than Mormon history, right?

[@wesstephenson4533]

Excellent video! I love the Olan Rogers cameo 😆

[@loudogg73]

Not sure I'm in love with this new format. Actually didn't think it was David at first.

[@reillydevine12]

Good stuff, haters gonna hate

[@kochese75]

Never heard of this before, cool stuff

[@yomuno2511]

New York (and Ohio) in the 1800's got cold enough that anyone could walk on water on Ground Hog Day's Eve.

[@dwRS1]

Very well done. Always informative and entertaining. Kind of sounds like some of the stories concocted in Washington DC.

[@logannance10]

No it's true. I was there when Chris Angel taught him how to do it.

[@taylor_su]

Ah yes, the lesser known angelic appearance of pre-mortal Chris Angel. He also taught Joseph how to perform other street magic tricks like levitating 3 inches off the ground for two seconds and then running away.

[@logannance10]

@@taylor_su I don't know why we don't talk about this more. It's clearly mentioned in D&C 139.

[@adamcruz1407]

@@logannance10 you literally made me look it up 😂😅

[@Galvatron759]

This entire rumour reminds me of the clip from Top Gear where Jeremy Clarkson attempts to walk on water and immediately falls into the sea.

[@michaelmichaelc1748]

Thankyou so much for your work. You and your team do a super job God bless you all 🙏 ❤😊

[@SaintsUnscripted]

You're very welcome and thank YOU! :)

[@stokedtogetmellow]

But did you hear about Russel Nelson’s near airplane crash that can’t be found on record?

[@later4524]

Yes I’ve heard the account, but from a first-hand source - President Nelson related it as one of his personal experiences that he lived through. The difference between the stories about Joseph Smith and the story about President Nelson is as follows: Joseph Smith’s borders on folklore with the number of variations from a variety of sources besides himself (starting after his death) and has been refuted on multiple occasions by those who knew him personally and the history of the church; President Nelson’s account is one story from his own mouth and to my knowledge there have been no refutation, just idle speculation. Also, from personal experience, just because you can’t find it in a newspapers or online doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. No one died, so it’s sensationalism was greatly reduced and may not have made the cut from an editor’s perspective as “newsworthy”.

[@knotskieskyramirez9491]

​@@later4524it simply they trying to foil something out of their speculative defamatory mission.

[@fred-62]

Nice motion graphics

[@LubricatedHeelys]

The burp was awesome. Please have more burps in your videos

[@taylor_su]

I agree.

[@larryfrakous1332]

Tbh I disagree

[@RyanMercer]

Burps for all!

[@oldskola3634]

Where did these images come from?

[@taylor_su]

A lot of the artwork used in this video was generated by the A.I. bot known as Midjourney. There is literally NO artwork out there on this subject so we decided to put artificial intelligence to the test. :)

[@victoriagledhill5872]

Niiiice intro

[@taylor_su]

Thank you! I had a bit too much fun making it.

[@robbhays8077]

What the? I love hearing all these wild claims.

[@brentgarner3143]

Love your videos and your humor ❤️🤣👍👍

[@SaintsUnscripted]

Glad you like them!

[@HunterElliott13579]

The AI art use is amazing

[@SaintsUnscripted]

🤖

[@roberthaskins2220]

How unique is this story to Joseph Smith and "Mormon preachers"? Are there parallels with other notable religious personalities of the same time frame (call it the same 50 years in either direction)? The quote from John Goodell suggests that the tales are less about Joseph Smith or Mormon's per se, and more about the people not being taken in. Joseph Smith just serves as a convenient foil.

[@outof_obscurity]

Walk on water? I've never heard this one. Haha! 😂

[@ts-900]

AND he saw Jesus on Earth! Not one chance! Who'd believe that???

[@outof_obscurity]

@@ts-900 first that's a red herring from the discussion. But sure let's go down that rabbit hole. The only thing that matters is the origin of Joseph Smith, first vision where he claims he saw the father and son. Was that a vision of God or of Satan? The consistency across all accounts is Joseph 1. Wanted to know which denomination to join 2. In the bible James said "if you lack wisdom ask of God" and Jesus said "ask and you shall receive" 3. He went into the woods to pray 4. He got an answer from the father and son. So what are the odds that was a vision from Satan? First do you believe there's a God and the Bible is the word of God then you'd have to now claim James a false apostle and Jesus a liar. Not willing to do that? OK then now you have to claim Satan is more powerful than the father and he blocked God from hearing that prayer, and appeared as the father and son to deceive Joseph. In one account Joseph said Jesus told him "thy sins are forgiven" so now Satan has appeared as Jesus and forgiven him his sins in order to lead Joseph to Jesus in order to lead Joseph away from Jesus? That just doesn't make sense. Unless you're willing to side with the Pharisees who claimed Jesus was casting out Satan by Satan. Jesus responded by saying that would mean the kingdom of Satan is divided against itself and cannot stand. So are you willing to do that and side with the Pharisees? Are you willing to claim Satan more powerful than the father? Because you'd have to be consistent and tell me that will happen in your church also. If I leave LDS to join you because Satan intercepted that prayer then he'd still be more powerful than the father in your church as well and can deceive me in your church. Do you see why it's such a weak foundation to call this a vision of the devil yet? Are you willing to do that? Are you willing to call Jesus and James liars? Are you willing to claim Satan more powerful than the father to arrive at your conclusion? 🤔

[@ts-900]

@@outof_obscurity Well, the first one was a bloodyghost, right? The next one a generic angel, then an angel of light (I'd buy that one), then it was Brother Nephi. Then finally Moroni, some dead guy without credentials. And NO one bothers to test him to see if he is of God as commanded. This is consistency? .

[@ts-900]

@@outof_obscurity I believe that the odds that it was fromSatan are 100%. First, he did NOT test the angel. Second, Joseph did NOT claim that he was a Christian at the time (not that I know of) therefore, he did not have the Holy Ghost. Since there is NO account (not that I know of) of Joseph confessing his sins, asking for forgiveness of his sins, or repenting of his sins, then NO, I don't believe God forgave him of his sins.

[@ts-900]

@@outof_obscurity As for me... When I died, Jesus was there, He escorted me home to God. Now I can't prove it, but Jesus has shown up for me before to the church, so maybe I can. As far as I know, that was no vision.

[@happyarchaeologist]

Nope, people like to make up rumors! This is now my Favorite video too! Ha ha!

[@777johbro]

More good stuff.

[@joaoldc9195]

Here I am! \o/ let's learn something new😊

[@ivaxnog6157]

Interesting though

[@jasonvesmam7044]

Gimme a break. Now he can walk on water

[@RyanMercer]

I see you didn't watch the video before commenting...

[@jasonvesmam7044]

@@RyanMercer no i did not. But it sounds like a lot of people would believe that had they been told by the church

[@carlostrevino1088]

No, he walked on wooden planks that put on the water but somebody removed some of the wooden planks and failed. To prove that he was a fake prophet. Con man. Pat Paulson also tried to walk on water on live tv but failed.

[@dr33776]

So you discount the entire thing because there are contradictions in all the available accounts.... I wonder if you do the same to the multiple versions of the first vision that DO NOT contradict each other at all 😂😂😂😂

[@jenawilson7242]

That's is hilarious!! That's a new one. Ah No.

[@stevenpictures1]

You used AI to make those images. I can tell because Joseph has two thumbs and like a thousand toes.

[@taylor_su]

Gah, you got me there, you did. There isn't any artwork on this subject so we were pushed to have it generated for us. I tried to Photoshop the most horrifying of the grotesque mutations out, but, alas, I could not get all of it.

[@SaintsUnscripted]

😂

[@ivaxnog6157]

Chic Boei

[@archangel_one]

If you ever doubt Joseph Smith, go inside the LDS Temple in Independence, Missouri and read the books of Abraham and Joseph. It's not like he got the Book of Mormon from some dead guy. Anyone can examine the original Gold Plates for themselves.

[@randont]

Even the original story sounds like a hoax. Falls in the pond and dies, lol!

[@ZehnWaters]

lol "strories"

[@kobidoggy7575]

Too much trash stories from jealousies anti Mormon but none of them are true.

[@lovepeace1552]

His many wives underwater propped him up

[@user-ze7co1go5k]

Not a single thing believable about Joseph Smith

[@richardholmes5676]

Latter Day Saint scripture have yet to have been proven as fraudulent works.

[@randont]

The Book of Mormon is true.

[@FromAgonyToLight]

@@james8996 Don’t worry, Jesus can let you know at Final Judgement if the Book of Mormon is more of His Word. Wouldn’t recommend waiting until then however.

[@richardholmes5676]

Paul Gregersen debunked the arrogant Egyptologists, how do you respond?

[@marygreen2672]

@@randont, u should compare it to the bible. There is only one GOD. The dead KNOW nothing so why would u baptize them? God is great. Follow the God of the BIBLE. The devil is a deceiver. Joseph was a polygamist, free mason and deceived many.

[@Cuttingtorch]

I stopped when I heard the word 'prophet'.