Joshua Maponga Questions Everything!

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Happy Tuesday, all! Thanks for being here.

[@uncleanunicorn4571]

Is he an active pastor? He's asking some disturbing questions

[@MindShift-Brandon]

He was an active bishop for SDA. But not sure exactly where he stands now

[@raya.p.l5919]

​@@MindShift-Brandon❤ Jesus power ❤ Warning it is intense. 😮 only last 3 days. Soon I will be lifting the Vail.

[@vladimirgrbic8325]

If oneself could be totally ones own, it would be much simpler. But noooo, them warring flocks...and them grinin' shepherds.

[@anthonyharty1732]

Hello MindShift can you do a bit on what kind of voice they hear EXACTLY when their ‘God’ ‘talk’s’ to them, especially women when they are supposed to be hearing a male voice back. 😂 Another one is ask believers how they think EXACTLY a ‘he’ created all of the star’s, the planet’s we see, the Sun 93 million miles away from us, some star’s uncountable light years away and uncountable star’s out there in the Universe’s. HOW ‘he’ EXACTLY brought ALL these thing’s into existence and how LONG it took ‘him’ to do it all. Why didn’t ‘he’ explain all this in any Religious book EVER!!!!!? I predict there will be a lot of silence back from them. 😂🤣😂

[@The-Resistance]

Just to give you a background on how the Christian religion was brought to Africans by missionaries. They behaved like dictators, ill-treated our people, they humiliated them and they stole huge tracks of land using the name of Jesus Christ. That is an historical fact of Mariannhill Monastery. Joshua's journey started by understanding his history. Your analysis are great for someone who does not have this history fact.

[@siyabongamahaye3946]

True, but not all. I come from a family who housed the 1st missionary in the area and also a family of traditional healers, a family of preachers and also a family of traditional leaders, so jah. Nothing is new and people have behaved +- the same since the beginning of time. Just as it is today, they were good and bad missionaries but we tend to pick and choose what supports our view of life, but this is not say that there was no bad done in the name Christianity, by the way it already was in the continent and some traces of it are shown in history before white missionaries....questioning is good thou...never believe in anything which cannot pass a test

[@draco_1876]

@@siyabongamahaye3946No it is true. Aside from Sudan and Ethiopia Christianity was brought to Africa through colonialism.

[@pauzamsiska3605]

@draco_1876 that's 100% right, people don't realize that was brought up in Ethiopia by a Greek man called Frumentius, but then if Christianity was here in Africa, what was it called before European?

[@PeterGaysue]

Ethiopia has the oldest bible and were NEVER colonized by the Europeans

[@Taharqo.saved.the.Hebrew]

​@@siyabongamahaye3946sounds like your family where them Africans that sold out to the Europeans for money and land

[@DavidRichardson153]

Even back when I, at most, was considering deconverting, one of the best people I consulted with was an ordained minister who also happened to be my history teacher for most of my time in high school (and he was my guidance counselor for my senior year and helped me get accepted into my first-choice college). It may sound strange, but he made me consider atheism, and not in a "He tried to get me to affirm my faith, and it ended up the opposite" kind of way. He explicitly told me that if adhering to Christian belief clashed with trying to not harm others, then I should consider leaving Christianity, whether it be for another religion or faith or even atheism. Now, why did I, who was still pretty religious at the time, trust him on considering atheism? Well, part of it was the background. Sure, I was Roman Catholic and attending a Catholic high school, but he was Western Orthodox (to oversimplify, think westernized Eastern Orthodox). It was through reading his Bible that I got introduced to different canons. Furthermore, long before he came to my high school, he was a USAF chaplain who served during the Korean and Vietnam wars. I was respectful enough to not ask for any specific stories, but he did give a little summary for his experience and why he was a minister: "Most of my time was helping people through troubled times. Most of those were fairly basic and relatively light, but there were also times when no amount of faith could bring comfort or guidance. War and violence have plenty of reliable ways of tearing through any facade you might be given about them, often leaving you with only two choices: doubling down on the facade in extreme denial, or accepting that there are lies you need to break free of and should start doing so now. In my experience, the deeply religious tend to go with the former. Of course, I also had my own faith-shaking experiences then - perhaps not as much or as bad as that of some of those I interacted with, but still - so I had to answer at least some of these same questions for myself too. Sure, I may have stayed with my faith, but today, I would say that it was so that I could be more likely to be in a position to help more people. I may not know, let alone be able to help, where someone might go after this life, but what I can do is try to help with this life. If not having faith in any deity, God or not, allows someone to be a better person, then so be it. I do not believe that others need to believe, let alone as I do. If the God I thought I believed in and worshipped does not approve of my attempts at bettering someone's life, especially the ones who decided to not or no longer worship, than I suppose I will have to end my belief in and worship of then, even after a whole life of belief. Just because you might be wrong does not necessarily mean that the other person, God or not, will be right. After all, God was wrong about Adam and Eve, Saul, David, Job, and plenty of others, which demonstrates quite the lacking in the 'all-knowing' aspect." Yeah, that is not exactly something you would easily forget. Sure, I did not deconvert until years after I graduated from there, but I visited him after I did, and I told him that I did. His response... was that I evidently made the correct choice for myself, that I appeared to have gone through a major improvement after making the decision. Yes, I did think that I was prepared to a rejection from him for deconverting, but to not only not hear that but hear the opposite, it was even more of a relief than I could have expected. Granted, he did agree with the Family Guy joke where the pope said, "Peter, the Good Lord said to _honor_ thy father. He never said anything about _liking_ him," and even elaborated a bit on it, so stuff like that may have had something to do with me respecting him. And here come the flood of apologists claiming that he was wrong and that he and I are going to burn as they spam away like they purposefully lit their own hair on fire while likely claiming that it was Satan who did that to them.

[@kalinora3901]

The man actually stuck to his job as a chaplain, even after leaving the military. He's a good man and I like how he handled the situation.

[@duanethompson8770]

Thanks for bringing Joshua M. to my attention. Also thanks for your thoughtful comments about his thoughts. At least he doesn’t seem to believe that everyone must follow all the exact rules in the Bible or go to hell.

[@MemoryMulenga-g2z]

African wise man Joshua maponga✊

[@TrysonKaonga]

True 💪🏾💪🏾

[@stevenpike7857]

This is my favorite KZbin channel. Thank you for your insights Brandon. The hubris and exaggerated sense of self importance to think one is a prophet getting messages for humanity is insanity; add in a dash of savior complex.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Thats so encouraging to hear. Thanks for the kind compliment!

[@joyabia682]

Exactly I cannot stand people that try to elevate themselves spiritually

[@mikeigori2983]

​@@joyabia682Even your christianity is paganist out from greece.A VERY BIG TIME EUROPEAN LIE AT IT'S VERY DEMONIC BEST.YOUR WHITE PAGAN GOD JESUS CHRIST WILL NEVER SAVE YOU.HE NEVER EXISTED.I am a pacific islander and I know my spirituality.Common sense made me leave that white european cult.PRAISE AND HONOUR TO MY ONE AND ONLY TRUE GOD AND SAVIOUR YAHSHUAH A'MMASSISACH!!!!

[@ZOE_NtombiYaseMancwabeni]

What most people dont get is, African spirituality is actually rooted in the belief of God. We Zulus call Mvelinqangi. We dont personify God. Its not a he or she. God is the divine or divine consciousness. Ancestors are those we send messages to, so they send them to the divine consciousness

[@pauzamsiska3605]

👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

[@StrangeforceSA]

No I'm. A Zulu Bro UMVELINQANDI ..COMES FROME OWAVELA KUQALA ....THE ONE WHO CAME FIRST ....EACH SURNAME HAVE THE ONE WHO CAME FIRST THAT YOUR GREAT GRANDFATHER THAT WHY YOU USE SURNAME THAT WHY WE HAVE IZITHAKAZELO ....WHICH IMPLIES THE FACT THAT THE ZULUS VIEWD THIER UNCESTORS....EVEN THE WORD UNKULUNKULU ...MEANS UMKHULU KAKHULU ..GRAND FATHER OF MY GRAND FATHER.....WE SIMPLY BELIEVE IN UNCESTORS GOD IS A EUROPEAN COSTRUCT WHICH LATER THEY TRIED TO FUSE WITH ZULU TRADITIONS

[@ZOE_NtombiYaseMancwabeni]

@StrangeforceSA then why do we also refer to uNkulunkulu in such names as uMenzi? Etc..etc.. ultimately the reason we don't personify God is because we know God is in everything, the force or what you may call the energy that lead things to exist, noth seen and unseen that force is what we refer to as uMenzi or Mvelinqangi.

[@B4Africa]

The word Africa is European. So what is African spirituality?

[@ZOE_NtombiYaseMancwabeni]

@B4Africa I think we all know Africa isn't an indigenous name here sir. That wasn't the context.... location was the context. Spirituality is actually all over the world. Search South America, some Asian regions. Please learn to read between the lines...it will help.

[@donaldnumbskull9745]

It can be very hard to accept that some questions don't have answers. I'm as guilty as anyone of making up my own answers, but I do try not to believe them.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Thats a key difference for sure

[@ReasonQuest]

Holy cow, Brandon. At the end of my faith struggle, I went to a pastor too (actually a very famous evangelical author; you'd likely know his name). I said I felt a lot like Job. I told him I couldn't hear God at all. His advice: "Well you might try standing a little closer to HIm." Like... what the heck?

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Gross! Who was it?

[@ReasonQuest]

@@MindShift-Brandon Randy Alcorn

[@joyabia682]

They are clowns, and they always wanna sound superior. No one hears from God they hear the voices in their head and if their head and emotions are rotten they hear rotten things

[@AnonymousWon-uu5yn]

The reason why I have morals is because I know that I don't like to suffer against my will and the worse I suffer against my will the more I don't like it. And that understanding about myself is what makes me understand why it's immoral for other life forms to suffer against their will and that's why I'm an antinatalist because I want to prevent as many life forms from suffering against their will as I possibly can and if they don't exist in the first place then that's just fine because then they won't know or care that they didn't exist.

[@cygnustsp]

I agree. I even signed up for VEHMT once.. voluntary human extinction movement. Imagine how much better we could make our world if we abandoned having children.

[@sorryifoldcomment8596]

Agreed. I will never give birth to my children - I love them too much. Over my dead body will they be forced to exist just to suffer & die anyways, without their consent.

[@rainbowkrampus]

Generally speaking, antinatalism is a moral position. Much like how I as an antitheist believe people shouldn't believe in gods. You are in effect saying that people shouldn't have children. You know you can just not have children without making it into a moral position right? Because the alternative is for you to define suffering and whether or not there are acceptable levels of it for everyone, including the people who do not exist yet. And that is a very silly position to put yourself in.

[@matmolin]

And just to add that suffefing is something built in nature. I would say that suffering is one of the main reasons nature got so diverse and life avoids boredom

[@caffiend.]

Buddha said life is suffering and that life is death and death is life.

[@sebirada9942]

He is not wrong. I wish him well 🙏🏻

[@cramwellmazhambe4026]

Proof please

[@Naafidy]

14:50 My now ex husband had me talk to our pastor. I was attending a North Point church (run by Andy Stanley) and apparently the campus we went to had a lot of people leaving. My ex wanted me to meet the new campus pastor, and I did. We had a good lunch, he didn't do a lot of preaching, just wanted to know why I had left the faith. (Apparently the church had been bleeding members recently, and my ex had sent them a scathing email about how they weren't there for us when my doubts began, long story.) My mother wants me to meet with her pastor... and well you know that story. I think that'll be the end of my meeting with spiritual leaders to explain myself.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Man. I get doing it for loved ones but yes at some point its just so futile. We dont owe explanations. They do! Its really warped the more you think about it. Just turn it to something more widely condemned. Imagine if tom cruise made leah remini go back and answer to leaders of scientology simply for being brave enough to wake up from the cult. It would be its own form of harassment and harm.

[@20july1944]

Your ex is better off without you, bitchypoo!

[@rainbowkrampus]

Man, there's no timeline in which I would have done that even once. I'm not sure how you made it through but kudos for not dismembering anyone.

[@20july1944]

@@rainbowkrampus Does your name mean you're homosexual?

[@20july1944]

Do you anything about God that I don't? Maybe you'll convince me of atheism!

[@michaelsbeverly]

15:00 This was different for me in that I went to a pastor/mentor/homegroup leader and we talked about my thoughts/feelings as I was considering the idea that God, perhaps, didn't exist. When I said I was considering the idea of "being an atheist" i.e. I was investigating the claims of Christianity (and theism) he told me to pour my whole self into the investigation. Rather than trying to discourage me or tell me I was wrong, he said I needed to give the search my full attention. I suspect, of course, that he was praying and hoping I'd find God and stay a believer, but I have to say he earned my respect by not trying to browbeat me into staying in church or by trying to convince me that God was real and I should just accept that, period, on its face.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

That is a better approach until its not. My experience was many people like that saying that doubting is good. Go search. Go question etc. until i concluded god wasnt real. Then it was right back to my lack of faith and love of sin

[@26beegee]

Joshua sounds like a real character. Very charismatic and probably fun to be around. Not sure about writing a gospel of his own, though. Sounds a little like a potential cult leader. A little scary. Glad he is thinking and verbalizing these questions and hope he eventually arrives at a rational place.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

I agree with all of that but what i find really funny is all the christians so against him writing a gospel. It is exactly what those anonymous authors did 30-120 years after jesus died. But 2000 is too far? Who is to say (to them) god is not inspiring joshua like he did those authors? Lol they just cant reject joshua as not a real prophet and blindly accept anonymously authors from back then without being contradictory

[@26beegee]

@@MindShift-Brandon One word comes to mind about Christians’ objections re: Joshua’s gospel - IRONY (as it was sung by Peter Griffin.) 🤣

[@anita10674]

@@MindShift-Brandon Yes, the other way of saying that is that 2000 is to close to us. I see him, I could probably go visit him if I was really motivated. I know it sounds strange but I think there is a cocktail of anxiety that makes ancient text/religion attractive, almost sexy, to a lot of people. Otherwise, it is a cult and who knowingly joins a cult.

[@Octoberfurst]

I remember when I was deconverting and my Christian friends insisted that I read Josh McDowell's book "Evidence that Demands a Verdict."" ( That was the go-to apologetic book at the time). I had already read it and thought it was unconvincing and rather lame.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

All those books fail so hard unless you are already bought in.

[@joyabia682]

I used to read a lot of Christian apologist. Kai those people are a waste of time

[@lindboknifeandtool]

@@MindShift-Brandonyeah they’re for people who are doubtful themselves, meaning they don’t have faith! Which means hell! 😂

[@mikeigori2983]

​@@MindShift-BrandonThe bible is full of contradictions but you whites will always defend your religious cult.You white european liars are full of shit.Your god died on a friday and rose on a sunday morning;that's one and a half days.He should've rose on a monday evening to complete three days.WHERE IS YOUR OTHER ONE AND A HALF DAYS?I AM A PROUD BLACK PACIFIC ISLAND MELANATED GUY AND I KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT!!!

[@The_Gru_Slayer]

Hey Brandon, I love your videos! Im currently watching your secular bible study series and im loving it! Great video! Keep it up!

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Thats so lovely to hear. Thank you for letting me know!

[@kaceesnow]

When I had a load of unanswered questions, my Mom said, Forget everything you know, just ask God for the answers, just wait and have faith, the answers may not come one time. Me: That wouldn't be fair, and I can't forget everything just like that, that would be bias, I must carefully think this through, I can't put emotion into it. And It isn't a rush, I asked God, If I am wrong, please save me, and I HAVE FAITH that he will. I will do what I have to do, if I loose, I loose, at least I know within myself that I tried. And I left it as that. Because as an individual who is sincerely seeking truth, emotion/fear should never have any influence in the steps you take to find truth. The message I was trying to convey was, I am sincere in my decision and have a pure heart, if God can see that I deviated due to ignorance, dispite I knowing the risk, he would set me back on track for sure. Rather than the Christians who just operate off of fear, and is far from sincere. So I believe that if I have things wrong, God would find me, if he could change Paul, why not me

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Like Joshua said, give him my address!

[@kaceesnow]

@@MindShift-Brandon Lol. Well, he is omnipresent, he has my address, and records every word that comes out of my mouth, so he knows. It will be sad if he only wants to chat on Judgement day 🤣

[@lynchkatiza863]

What a brilliant analysis. I for one have watched Joshua Maponga for some time, he is on a journey still to arrive.

[@chikesilasokonkwo2543]

Joshua has arrived a long time ago . Just to borrow your words he is only striking a balance to carry the African Christians along without loosing them in between to the fanaticism of Christianity and the depth of the African spirituality and gradually making them arrive to the knowledge of the creator without hating who they are.it not surprising if a none African is confused from how Joshua communicates his teachings but if you listen with an open mind and keen attention with a little of African perspective you may catch up with him

[@lynchkatiza863]

You have articulated his position to some clarity and if what you are saying is correct it only makes his effort more honourable. Thank you. The African who is Christian or Muslim is still our brother and sister it is therefore wise to woo them with knowledge and love than it is to castigate them for what they are currently practicing.

[@MRFITTA]

@@chikesilasokonkwo2543 Joshua Mapongo is presenting nothing more than idolatry and the gospel which is no gospel at all. Satan knows scriptures, demons knew who the Son of the most high was/is. The key is seeing where he is taking people, and as I can see, he's deceiving the ignorant, who are still in bondage to the flesh, having issues with their identity, which should be in Christ- if they are sons of God according to scripture( and reality)

[@anon-o-moose]

Thanks for the great content! God doesn't simply *not condemn* or *tacitly condone* polygamy - the Law of God provides direct instructions on *the right way* to take another wife (Ex 21:7-11, Deut 21:15-17, Lev 18:18), including by force from unbelievers (Deut 21:10-14) and from other believers (Deut 22:28-29)

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Thanks for watching and yes exactly!

[@jeffrutan2344]

At this point in the Information Age we have so much access to whatever we find interesting. In the specific field of Abrahamic God theism/atheism it sometimes seems we’ve heard it all from both sides. Still, I keep obsessively searching for more unique voices. Yours has become my favorite in recent months. But another type I find particularly interesting is when I find voices who straddle the fence - identifying as Christians but agreeing with many criticisms offered by atheists. Some of those can be generally classified as gnostics or new agers or just liberals/universalists. All of them have to step back from a literal infallible fundamentalist version of Biblical interpretation/understanding. I’m hoping to see a deep dive on the more gnostic stuff someday. After 4 decades of thinking about all this, I now find myself wondering if the best Christians might be the ones with no real scholarly perspective at all. I think everyone makes up their own version of God in their heads anyway - no two are the same - but those who actually express the most genuine love may be those with strongest intuitive empathy and natural ability to not see all the Biblical inconsistencies, contradictions, confusion and outright evil.

[@BookishChas]

Great video Brandon! I’ve never heard of this guy before. He’s very enigmatic it seems like, but he’s willing to be honest about the sugarcoating of the Bible that goes on so much, and that’s kind of cool.

[@joelonsdale]

To an irrational audience, anything can count as rationality. There's a lot of grifters in the spiritual, theological and apologetical arena and a lot of money to be made for a professional opinion you can adopt. Rarely do they withstand scrutiny.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Well said!

[@joelonsdale]

@@MindShift-Brandon Thank you. I don't know this this character, but I recognise the the confidence, the "easy to agree with" phrasing, the fluffiness of their "message". I don't expect everyone to have a clear and definite message, but I do expect them to acknowledge that they don't as a consistent party of their schtick if they want to be transparent.

[@Pj287.]

Man you always hit the nail on the head!

[@wegotitoutthemississippimudd]

I love joshua maponga

[@robtbo]

Joshua Maponga seems like an intelligent, empathetic person who was raised in fundamentalist Christianity and learned that his core beliefs are impossible. It’s only the specifics of this impossibility and if he accepts the reality of it that I find curious. Unlike Jordan Peterson, he hasn’t operated in any forum secular enough to ask him “what is God?”

[@jerryhayes9497]

The difference between knowledge and wisdom? Knowledge is knowing that the name of the monster isn't Frankenstein... Wisdom is understanding that it is

[@a.b.2405]

This was actually deep!

[@JM-hr4xp]

Thanks!

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Thanks so much!

[@AnonymousWon-uu5yn]

I currently enjoy existing and that makes me think that it's okay to force other life forms into existence even though they might not like or possibly even hate existing.

[@JamesRichardWiley]

Joshua is struggling with contradictions and doesn't recognize them.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

I think so

[@TheRatzor]

I question everything a healthy mind should always be Skeptic A bit of topic I have a religious friend who see all the crazy horrific stuff happening in Israel and believes its part of the end times. Would you be willing to do a topic or video on the current events? I was watching and i'm like how can a good God allow all that suffering it amazes me how people just side with Israel or vice versa based on their religious conviction

[@MindShift-Brandon]

It really is just insane. I have been thinking if I want to try and cover it

[@TheRatzor]

I just find the topic interesting because so many have this mindset on the apocalypse end times and everyone always focuses on Israel etc however if you don't cover it I understand the horrific sh*t is never a pleasant topic to talk about. what scares me is how people get all excited about end time regardless of the human suffering it and i'm like people are suffering and dying and this stuff is happening because of religion in the first place @@MindShift-Brandon

[@jordanmapfumo9359]

I think the Thomas point is him saying IF Jesus is who Christians say he is, then that would mean everything that is written in that book about him is true. If it's true then he needs to go out of his way to reapond to my doubt. Much like the lost sheep, the responsibility is not on me to find my way home, the good Shepherd, if thats what he is, needs to come and find me.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

I agree. Divine hiddenness is a major problem when the Jesus of the bible tracks down Thomas and shows up personally to Paul etc.

[@jordanmapfumo9359]

@@MindShift-Brandon yup. As for the bible he is supposedly writing, i suspect it will be some kind of a parody bible. He seems to have the attitude that says if you people need a Jesus so damn much, lets create one who actually works for us. I domt think he goes on to believe that Jesus has a heaven that he can take people to.

[@KingCon054]

I lost my wife and kids because i deconverted from being a Christian after being born and raised in a Christian family.I just wish one day shell figure it all out and come back home😢

[@cbaveritt]

Can I please write you a theme song? I would not charge you anything. I just LOVE what you do for this community and would like to contribute in my own way. I have a small YT channel, CB and Friends. Thanks!!

[@MindShift-Brandon]

I checked you out and you are for sure so talented. Thank you for the extremely kind and generous words and offer. I have moved away from music on the channel and am dont really have intros or openings much any more to play music over. Usually hopping right into it. Id hate for you to go to any work

[@cbandfriends]

@@MindShift-Brandon I totally understand and thank you for the kind comments! Please let me know if anything changes and keep up the great work! Thanks.

[@tianyouzhang4301]

The Clergy Project exists because there are pastors who have privately lost or at least changed their perspective on religion.

[@nkalolangnkalolang1507]

This is interesting i think it will be nice for you to have an interview with Joshua to get him to explain some of his augments because I think you have good points sometimes he confuses me as well as to where really he stands with God and Christianity, he has valid points though.

[@peterkeller7880]

Thats right Jesus has my address he can pay me a visit anytime. Please bring some wine im also thirsty. I got cupcakes and pizza for Jesus. We shall have a party, changing water to wine, Jesus first time eating those divine cupcakes. Its biblical what makes Thomas more special? My door is open. "Let Jesus come to my house , baba" - Joshua Maponga Legend in a making

[@MRFITTA]

As a Christian who has 'read' the bible, asked the questions, had the doubts, and come through, and will continue to go through the cycle, I can honestly say you don't know what you are talking about. I actually agree that seminary became the cemetery for the faith of some, however most of the questions you claim you asked whilst trying to hold on to your faith can be answered, the question is, are the answers satisfactory to someone who is already open to a spirit of error and unbelief. I spend a lot of time listening to atheists and other religions, and all it does is give me even more reason to believe, as the counter options are nonsensical, and very 'I' based. But I thank God, through the internet, we can get real case studies, we don't have to read books, or hear second hand accounts deconstructionists etc. But you keep doing what you are doing, its helping a lot( albeit not the way you think)

[@oldschool5]

Its mythology yall. Cmon now

[@jordanmapfumo9359]

I could be wrong but the questions Joshua asks, and ive seen several talks and interviews of his, are checkmate kind of questions. The type that invalidate the whole scam. So when he appears like he is still a believer of sorts, he is saying if athiesm is too radical for people, at least lets rewrite this thing, repurpose the scriptures...at least 0:00

[@ChillAssTurtle]

Everyone can always easily figure out the bs in other ppls religions but never turn that inward. We have to grow up outta these things.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Agreed!

[@20july1944]

So are you an atheist, Turt?

[@ChillAssTurtle]

​@@20july1944i'm unconvinced of any claims of supernatural stuff. Its actually miraculous to me how there is no evidence for any of it EVER.

[@20july1944]

@@ChillAssTurtle OK. How did the universe come about?

[@20july1944]

@@ChillAssTurtle You're making a scientific claim, let's discuss the science.

[@feliciadavids1093]

Did you listen to his other videos?

[@simonkoster]

The only thing more scary than a religious con man is a smart religious con man.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Lol. Havent heard that one before. I like it.

[@Charlotte_Martel]

@@20july1944 If he's writing his own Gospel, then he is most definitely a con man. Galatians 1:6-9 absolutely denounces this, so atheists and Bible believers alike should be wary of this man.

[@20july1944]

@@Charlotte_Martel Is your name a female version of Charles Martel? Good for you if it is!

[@simonkoster]

@@20july1944 Well. he's apparently writing his own Gospel and that certainly gives me some Joseph Smith - L. Ron Hubbard vibes.

[@20july1944]

@@simonkoster I didn't watch this, just here to argue with atheists. I deleted my own idiotic response.

[@josephcollins6033]

Sorry about the repeats. Looks as if it won't take my comments. Obviously you saw it.

[@theresemalmberg955]

From a Christian perspective I'd say that Joshua Maponga is on a dangerous path, a path many of us recognize. He's openly asking questions that a lot of us secretly asked ourselves when we were believers. I may be wrong, but I'm afraid that there is only one destination that road leads to, and it is not to renewed faith. This sounds like a man on the way out. I have to admit I was surprised by him, because as I said in my earlier comment, African Christians tend to be a more conservative breed than their American Evangelical brethren, and their numbers are growing while Western Christianity is declining. This presents a challenge to all of us. While I consider myself agnostic or at best a doubting Christian, I am very sensitive to how the American Christian community perceives itself to be treated by others and I have to say that there is some truth to the idea that the only permissible bigotry is anti-Christian bigotry and that Christians are being punished for standing up for what they believe is right or wrong. I have long felt that how you treat those you do not agree with says a lot about the validity of one's ideas. Truth should not have to persecute; truth should not have to punish; truth should not have to coerce or mock or demean. I believe--now I may be wrong--that there is room for both believer and nonbeliever in this country and to say that one side should not be free to express its opinions or persuade others or even influence politics while the other can do all those things and more is tyranny. I believe this is a tightrope that we have to walk if we call ourselves a free society. I did not become agnostic because someone said I had to; I did not become agnostic because someone mocked me for my beliefs (though I was mocked plenty of times!), I became agnostic because I asked myself the questions that Joshua Maponga and others have asked. I would never force my agnosticism on anyone else and in fact I am very careful around those who do believe to not do anything to cause them to lose their belief, unless they themselves without any prompting from me, indicate that they are open to such discussions and questions. Good video.

[@CheknoEternity]

Polygamy is almost more like a “frown upon” than it is a “sin” If God was so highly against it he would’ve put his foot down about marriage from the very start. Same thing with slavery. The Israelites had no problem following laws that were similar but yet believers will make excuses and use mental gymnastics.

[@itsnevertoolatetodotherigh3271]

Whaaaaaat!!! This guy is from my country

[@MindShift-Brandon]

I think the accent is so beautiful.

[@itsnevertoolatetodotherigh3271]

@@MindShift-Brandon glad you find the accent appealing, most blk south Africans speak English like that, anyways even though am a Christian I appreciate yr content .

[@xthewixard]

He is Zimbabwean, actually; even contested elections there under ZANU PF...but he just spends a lot of time in SA.

[@20july1944]

@@itsnevertoolatetodotherigh3271 As a Christian, what do you "appreciate" about the content of this filth?

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Yes Zimbabwean, lots of time in the states then home in SA. A good mix.

[@comfortbonney6289]

Christian’s right now has mostly become very religious. Full of the letter and eloquence of men. From every indication the spiritual men of old all had life changing encounters with God which cemented their believe in God. It is those same encounters and experiences that we read today as the God’s word. It is therefore important that we also experience our own spiritual encounters to help solidify our faith in Christ. Without that we will be stack with the letter which may not deliver much.

[@winstonmiller9649]

All these merry smiling people who can cheerfully question things. We should question things. However it's hard to question anything when you're totally brought up not questioning anything atall, thereby you're incapable of questioning anything. Until one day you do...🤔🤔🤔

[@stephentsotetsi7847]

Why don't you invite him on your platform?

[@MindShift-Brandon]

I have just recently started reaching out to people like this. Wanted to get my subs up first. Hope to have lots of guests. Thank you

[@humphreyhairdo]

Think for a great support Putin have support him with evidence

[@CB66941]

There's a group of niche Christians I have listened to which I will arbitrarily draw a line and call them non-perfect Christians. I find these Christians interesting, because they aren't fundamentalist Christians. They are willing to accept that the bible could be wrong, don't accept all of it, some of it could have been written by men, not God. Or they accept that the bible requires other information to supplement it. Interpretation of verses is also incredibly liberal and contradictions are ok, expected even. Even the core of Christianity, Jesus, is disputed. Meghan from Digital Hammurabi said she doesn't know if heaven or hell is a real place. I think she also mentioned that the idea of Jesus coming down to die for people's sins is not what she believes, or that she doesn't know, I don't recall. I think even Meghan's husband had a friend who flat out told him the reason he believes in god is due to a subjective experience yet understands that's not a strong case for it. There's a Christian interviewed by Harmonic Atheist who doesn't believe in remission of sins and I think she was horrified to expose her child to that and to the concept of hell. Dan McClellan is a critical scholar too, and he said if you want to interpret the scripture in your own personal and private light, go ahead. And he advocates that as you interpret the bible, it must not be harmful to people or marginalize minorities and I think even other Christian scholars admit and say: "yea slavery was condoned in the bible". Kenneth Miller is an evolutionary biologist. Miller accepts that the story of Adam and Eve could be allegorical. This is anecdotal but my older brother is a Sunday school teacher who teaches kids the concept of death in a secular manner. He told my parents he won't teach heaven and hell but to teach the reality of death in a manner that people of any religion or non-religion can listen to. He's also trying his best to teach evolution to my fundamentalist dad and convince him that the earth is not 6000 years old and even showed me a documentary while telling me that it disputed the flood narrative. And he is the first person I told of my deconversion and I was pleasantly surprised at just how supportive he was of me. While I have no doubt there will be criticisms of these Christians (from fundamental Christians or atheists), putting that aside for the time being, I think as ex-Christians we are very used to fundamental Christianity being the ones that we engage with that we don't hear often from these non-perfect Christians who hold very similar beliefs to us. And after hearing them speak, I came to a conclusion: Perfection truly is the enemy of the good, and that you don't need to have your religion to be perfect to relate or identify with it. I don't know if Joshua is on his way there, I won't speculate, especially considering what he wants to do. If Buddhism can have a parable about blind men who don't know the whole elephant but can only know parts of the elephant through touch, illustrating various concepts like contradictions, subjective experiences, relative truth, imperfections, interpretations of experiences and the unknown, I don't see why it isn't possible for Christianity. And honestly, I would rather that Christianity over the fundamental one we got.

[@corwin32]

Did Joshua and I read the same book? Jesus gave Thomas proof, but he wasn’t supportive. He gave a mild rebuke.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Not in the gospel of Thomas though. He is using that non cannon gospel to help make his point.

[@lukundonyondo4604]

Know his background

[@newyorkchamp9110]

He might be deconverting, mind a little cognitive, I went through that 8 months before deconversion.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Right. Hes either gonna end up way deeper or pushed all the way out!

[@newyorkchamp9110]

@@MindShift-Brandon facts, my guy lol 😂😆

[@musasayyaf3101]

Make discoveries about the Qurán and you will get the big difference.

[@TebogoMotlhale]

Joshua is quite an intellectual I must say. While he is originally from Zim, he actually lives in my home country (SA) for over 20 years now, down in Port Elizabeth. He is still going through a state of massive internal battle between mind and belief (his mind vs his beliefs), but surely he is inquisitive and pretty sharp about the many problematic issues documented in the Christian bible. Just another random thought that crossed my mind earlier today . . . when you approach a fundamentalist Christian and you ask him . . . "Sir, who created this mighty universe with its 100 trillion stars ?" The answer you're sure to get is "Son, the One and only Almighty God! Praise be to him who reigns above ALL creation!" and you instantly get this feeling that He is so MIGHTY that ALL of these trillions of stars and galaxies in the universe, as big and mighty as they seem to you, they are Nothing much to Him, after you are further reassured that he in fact created them out of "a Word" or by simply uttering "his words". . . . but then you go on to enquire/ask further . . . "so Sir. . . why is the Bible, being his WORD . . . itself showing up in the form of these shabby pieces of paper and broken pieces of stones and aged artifacts that REQUIRE translation from a SINGLE language when he could have openly written his words on granite stone and mounted that granite on EVERY majestic mountain on earth with His Words already translated into LOCAL languages" ? you just get this "Hhhhmmm . . . SILENCE", . . . becuz the grand-scale majestic declarations must now be instantly reduced to obscure apologetic explanations and excuses for why "the WORD" that CREATED these trillions of galaxies, itself comes in the form of shabby papyrus and broken pieces of stones and decomposing papers, that are NOT even a BILLION light years CLOSE to the grand-scale declaration of how galaxies were created 🙄🤕😕😕. It's like . . . we drop from GRAND-SCALE to . . . Zerro-grandeur in a split second 🤕🙄.

[@princemlambo8270]

what religion did africans practice before they were given a,book- not written by africans😊

[@ivanj.conway9919]

6:50 - Wow, well if we are going to be talking about any new bibles for a new age, we need to be looking into the writings of the Urantia Book then, as well, a book I feel can easily, replace all our current, holy books like the bible and quran for the depth of Spiritual Meatiness it contains. And indeed, for that matter; "A Course in Miracles" far surpasses both the bible and quran, as well, and both were "downloaded" as this man seems to be talking about here, or channeled as it has traditionally, been called.

[@judeogbonnaya2975]

'FORCE IS THE LAST RESORT OF EVERY FALSE RELIGION'.

[@chicfini]

Yes, I do think he is kinda confusing, but he is right anout polygamy and homosexuality.

[@UnluckiestManAlive-n6g]

Always consider the fact that he was a Bishop for more than 2 decades... So he'll always quote the Bible in his illustrations....

[@broski365]

5:23 can any medical doctor or experienced professional tell me how Jesus can have holes in his body from the nails while still having working hands and feet? Every square millimeter of the hands and arms is occupied by a moving object or a critical body part. Also I don't believe that it's possible to stick nails until person without breaking any bones or ligaments, want the same time still having polls after being Resurrected? Only in Fables!

[@MindShift-Brandon]

My favorite is they broke his knees. But he’s walking around. so convenient to be resurrected 98% healed except for some cool symbolic holes.

[@20july1944]

His nail holes are in His wrists, not His hands. The specific hole is called the "space of Lestat" or something like that. You're ignorant.

[@Simon.the.Likeable]

Jesus went bodily into a cloud in Acts 1:9. No oxygen tank, no pressure suit - did he keep going into outer space without any other apparatus? Was the incident based on the extant Ptolemaic conception of the universe or the science-based reality we know now? Of course it is fables. No matter how many attempts at rationalization, it is fables. The scariest question then arises, why did Simon Cephas and Saul the Pharisee want to convert the Gentiles into Noachides?

[@20july1944]

@@Simon.the.Likeable No, rather obviously Jesus transcends the need for oxygen.

[@Simon.the.Likeable]

@@20july1944 ...the other one plays Jingle Bells.

[@reversefulfillment9189]

I think of religions like comic universes and the followers are like larpers attending sunday service comicon.

[@shizomedia]

why are you soscared yet interested?

[@Bswahbcukjdsyvcz8307]

Maponga is afraid to identify himself as an atheist i can argue thus

[@GgGg-s2j9q]

People should stop listening too those gentiles explaining there view on the bible. The time is up ⏱️

[@sibusisotshabalala1279]

YOU'RE KINDA MISUNDERSTANDING JOSHUA... BECAUSE HE WAS A CHRISTIAN AND USED TO WHOLEHEARTEDLY BELIEVE IN THE BIBLE, HE NOW BASES HIS THEORIES ON THE BIBLE ITSELF. HE COMPARES THE BIBLE TO PRACTICALITY OR VICE VERSA!

[@Cat_Woods]

I don't disagree with your points, but I have to say I think this guy is dangerously unstable. All the makings of another cult leader.

[@frankanderson5012]

If he's creating his own 'bible' for future generations, I wonder what they will believe about him? Could we just be witnessing another man made, manufactured religious event?

[@SasukeUchiha-u6f]

Hello MindShift Where Did God Come from and have Does God exist Please Comment Back And Have a great day goodbye

[@MindShift-Brandon]

God isnt real. But his myth came from people looking to explain the world around them

[@bazilolara]

Mindshift this is to let you know their certain things Joshua talks of that you will never understand because you’re of no African heritage, eg habit of polygamy,

[@Chris-op7yt]

another snakeoil salesman. from dodgy self improvement, to prophet. gibberish is part of the sales pitch and being able to deny what was said, because misunderstood. it's a feature.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Feature is right. Good point

[@superjamhuri3625]

I’d say the genuineness is different, thomas doubted for real not in arrogant way that God do this do that and I’ll believe that is a very disrespectful way to ask God to reveal himself to you, you know how big is the world? For this God to even care your little KZbin noises you can’t even stay hungry for days and you’d shout about the creator of the universe 😂😂 you guys funny.. God is God, you want him in your life you kennel down and ask for his mercy and grace to reveal himself to you, been t the beach before? Look how big that shit is? Your 1 little thing 😅😅 here speaking about the God who created the world 😂😂 your not important bro when it comes to God, his mercy on us gives us life SEEK HIM TRUTHFULLY AND HE’LL ANSWER NOT THE WAY YOU WANT, WHO ARE YOU?

[@MindShift-Brandon]

This is a really bad answer. I have sought earnestly and desperately when i was a believer for 30 years and the size of the beach has nothing to do with anything. You cant have it both ways. You cant say i am nothing when it suits you and also that i am made in gods image, that he cares about me and wants me to know him when it suits you. Lol and how very silly to say thomas doubted for real but not me. What do you base that off of? If you are a christian trying to either show love or convince me of your god, this comment is not the way to do it

[@clemstevenson]

I suspect that this guy is being dishonest, as he clearly understands that the biblical claims are indistinguishable from fiction. No honest person will be able to find the metaphorical black cat in the bible's coal cellar. Indeed, a major problem is that biblical passages have been granted an unwarranted level of intellectual merit. As none of the Jesus Christ claims can be verified, there is no reason to take them at face value.

[@kettei7743]

This is beyond the point. These texts are of immense spiritual insight for millions and you don’t need to have the position of a fundamentalist to find value in them. Claiming that he is dishonest is specially incorrect when he, as it is shown in the video, is way more open for questioning than a typical pastor. If you are going to judge people, don't go off psychoanalyzing them and poisoning the well. Also what do you mean with “the metaphorical black cat”?

[@jackwhite8238]

When I was a Christian I wanted to become a pastor. Now as an atheist I still want to be a pastor. Where else can you fill peoples head full of bullshit and get paid for it?

[@keobakilemahura4890]

I always tell my sons never to believe something just because it's from a figure of authority, they must question everything.

[@lindboknifeandtool]

This has its limits, you can eventually become locked up because we humans don’t know jack shit about anything, and we can only be sure WE ourselves exist. Reason I say this is because this thinking sent me into psychosis a while ago.

[@Iocus_Severus]

You mentioned wisdom, Brandon. It makes me smile to think of myself as a teenager who prayed for a gift of wisdom, like Solomon’s (I actually did.) It might just have been the one prayer that I uttered which was heard. As a consequence, “The Lord” led me out of Christianity a few years later. 😂

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Lol!

[@20july1944]

What is the basis of your newfound atheism?

[@Colonizer2]

​​@@20july1944are you the youtube comment version of a masochist?

[@20july1944]

@@Colonizer2 No, I'm just an educated Christian who likes arguing with atheist pricks.

[@lifefindsaway7875]

@shaunelstob. Yeah, it’s oddly comforting to have biblical justifications for leaving the faith. For me, it was “when I was a child, I thought like a child, I spoke like a child, but now I am grown, and have put away childish things” I used to have child like faith, and now I am grown, and left faith behind

[@Mrs_Important]

Joshua Maponga can only be understood by African Descendant,,you will never really get it if you are not,,,he is rooted in African History

[@BAKAIHAHOKI]

Thank you

[@hueyseylo7168]

100%

[@jb411000]

Well, I have been watching Maponga since he started and by now has a fair idea of where his ideas originates and the intended direction of his thought process: lots of his questions regarding the Bible is the hypocrisy of the colonial masters that took all this information and repackaged it to suit and reflect how they think. For instance, he questions what colonists refer to as Afrocentric teachings; the hypocrisy of western Christian embracing present day Judaism; the selective nature of western Christians biblical beliefs and applications. He is frustrated with the way White Christians come to Africa and try to westernize Africans as they claim to bring Africans the gospel. He thinks westerners are there to clean up the African mindset prior to trusting them with the‘worthy’ gospel of a white Christ- which he clearly thinks is ridiculous understanding where Israel itself is located. Lots more. A delight to watch him myself. Very insightful man.

[@TH3F4LC0Nx]

Haven't heard of this man before, but he seems, if nothing else, like an interesting character. And that's a good point about writing a new gospel. Why can John write about divine visions but no one else can? Granted, I'll admit that a good deal of "modern gospels" or other such allegedly divinely inspired books are often at best bunk and at worst dangerous. But questioning things is of paramount importance.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Lol exactly. Id argue they are as wrong and harmful as the four anonymous ones included in the bible

[@gregcampwriter]

I do appreciate Maponga's standard of evidence: Send Jesus to my house. I am curious about his having been a bishop, since Adventists didn't have that rank when I was swirling in that particular cult, and to my knowledge, they haven't adopted it since then.

[@SamuelMavezere-lf9jv]

Bishop is a Greek word which is equivalent either to elder or pastor

[@Charlotte_Martel]

It always shocks me when people who quote the Bible make their own Gospels. Galatians 1:6-9 is absolutely clear that this is demonic&brings a curse. Looking at you, Joe Smith.

[@kingshango796]

Not sure but I think u should watch more of his videos such as his 'farmer's of thought' series. He's spot on

[@MalekMagicianPR]

Your closing thoughts were brilliant! I struggle with it when I was in seminary and that's how I became an atheist. I couldn't justify it nor was I willing to make excuses anymore for it.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Thank you kindly. It is amazing how so many christians lose it right there!

[@20july1944]

Wow! A seminarian! Do you know the NT narrative, even though you apparently don't believe it?

[@MalekMagicianPR]

@20july1944 NT and OT are part of the curriculum, so yes, I don't see how that is relevant.

[@20july1944]

@@MalekMagicianPR Good. I'm curious where/when/how you think Christianity got started.

[@erin6784]

​@@20july1944there are many interesting resources on that topic. There is also evidence to suggest that Christianity itself didn't really get started until Paul and his ministry.

[@philipgrobler7253]

The Irony is palatable with this religion, when I read the bible at face value and ask explanations from apologists I get accused of taking it out of context, but believers continuously take verses out of context deliberately to prove the fallacies of their flawed beliefs.

[@mh4zd]

Regarding his writing a new gospel, I've thought of this prospect. I call it "the problem of revelation." Christians have limited standards by which to vet the divinity of such an occurrence, specifically because of the precedent set by the New Testament, which represents several philosophical course corrections for God/new policies, and even a few prophetic disagreements. The only thing that could get this guy's gospel ignored is the bias expedience or the moral intuitions of the public upon which it lands, and, if he were so careless, contradictions of narrative/prophecy. But as for moral directives, the Bible cannot serve as a guide by which to disprove it, since the OT has clearly not been allowed to be a standard by which the NT can be disproven.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Very well said love this

[@mariobethell3731]

I've never met a religious person when asked, "How was the universe created?" who was honest enough to admit, "l don't know". For in the absence of evidence, truth is uncertain. Therefore, one is left to guess, speculate, and assume. This is called faith and it is not knowledge!! Honest people do not claim to know the unknown. They simply will admit that they don't know.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

100%!

[@lindboknifeandtool]

You have to have faith to be a member. If you’re without it you’re not a believer. This is how they blindly believe everything, even though it offers little to no explainatiom

[@EmissaryOfStuff]

Well, Mr. Maponga is fascinating at least. It'll be interesting to see where he goes next.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Yes i thought so also

[@presentfuture7563]

Re the "how dare you"...I saw the greatest tweet shared the other day... Job: Hey god you killed like literally all of my kids what's up with that God: How dare you speak that way to the inventor of the hippopotamus

[@josephcollins6033]

Here's why you can't pin him down: he is un-put-down-able. He has some great points (love the politicians putting hand on Bible thing), but he is an ego maniac. Writing his own gospel? Non-fiction? Scary.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Indeed

[@kaybeeMoAfrika]

I kinda get where Mr. Maponya is coming from with the analysis of Christianity. He believes the scriptures were contaminated by the Romans and Europeans to advance their colonial takeover of the world. He believes that Christianity was never any better than African spiritualism and that in fact, African spiritualism was and is the foundation of African culture. He knows that Africa is very religious today and he doesn't want to come across too harsh their faiths. He does a good job pointing out the errors in the Bible, but he also uses the scripture as a moral compass.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Yes. I think all thats makes sense for sure

[@Xaeravoq]

the main reason i started to doubt was when i would ask my parents questions they would tell me to ask the pastor and he never had any answers either and this was before the internet so i was just so confused as it didnt make any sense so i couldnt believe it

[@MindShift-Brandon]

The last line of defense. The pastor. Except they cant work it out either. Its all so sad

[@marshallsaccount922]

Yo keep the videos coming man! The quality is super high

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Will do. Thanks so much!

[@stevewebber707]

I hear so many Christians taking a hard line on the bible saying that marriage is only between one man and one woman. Not only do I not see that explicitly said, it seems remarkably missing from all the many rules provided in the old testament. When the bible goes to great lengths to explicitly condemn so many things, it is meaningful when something significant isn't explicitly condemned. The way the bible is written, it is needed to read between lines, and perhaps even extrapolate on what might be meant by phrases that have less than clear meanings. But when engaging in that, claiming that the result is God's word with certainty, is worse than just foolish. Putting words in God's mouth, has to rank pretty highly in things Christians shouldn't do.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

So well said! Agree

[@presentfuture7563]

I believe it's technically limited to one man, 700 wives and 300 concubines.

[@Isaac-hm6ih]

When and if his bible is available, I'd be curious what his positions are. He doesn't seem, from what I see here, to follow the usual "thou shalt not question my hypocrisy" behaviour of most self proclaimed prophets.

[@sosthenespaul8821]

Sishangai kwanza we ni WHITE MAN hapa ulipo unajaribu kutetea makosa ya BABU ZAKO

[@smilefrownupdown]

The amount of cognitive dissonance it requires to maintain your Christian faith is exhausting.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Preach!

[@smilefrownupdown]

@@MindShift-Brandon 🤣🙌🏾🙌🏾

[@simphiwekahla8944]

Point of correction. Joshua Maponga never claimed to be a prophet and he is not a prophet.

[@SiyabulelaKakaka-iz4wk]

Maponga is a gift to humanity

[@PIA-tj5hc]

He is!!!

[@DannyS177]

I didn't know about Joshua before this video, but he is an interesting person.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Indeed he is. So close to waking up but also so far

[@bang8534]

​@@MindShift-Brandonhe is wide awake!

[@PIA-tj5hc]

@mind He is wide awake!!!