Joshua punches Clive - Final Fantasy 16

Joshua punches Clive in Final Fantasy XVI / Final Fantasy 16
Subscribe for more videos of this game!
www.youtube.co...
Main Persona channel: / @fazpersona
Mihoyo games channel: / @kamisatofayato
This video is recorded and edited by me. If you are the publisher/developer of this game and want me to take this and or more videos down, please reach out to [e-mail].

[@Caporg3000]

“Listen, Joshua, I get what you’re saying. But… do you know how much stagger damage diamond dust does?”

[@shiroutheherotraceon3313]

lol!

[@zandgamesandmusic]

hahaha this i can confirm 😂

[@lowhp_comic]

"I understand little brother, but counterpoint: Permafrost"

[@chadesu7837]

bbrrrruuuuhhhh hahahah

[@rizkyanandita8227]

Torgal know that punch is about to happen, and he just let it slide.

[@MidknightFlare8413]

Was looking for this comment Trogal was like uh oh lol

[@lowhp_comic]

the frost wolf didn't wanna melt haha

[@sorathekeybladewielder9675]

What I love about this game is the relationship between the two brothers.

[@DuskChill]

Final Fantasy: Brotherhood

[@ThunderClanFan22]

Final Fantasy 16 Brotherhood (the tv show) just like brotherhood: Final Fantasy XV and full metal alchemist brotherhood

[@mavvynne444]

@@ThunderClanFan22 Exactly the same!

[@MidknightFlare8413]

And Torgal I like his reaction

[@denise6234]

Its touching to see how much respect Joshua has for Jill.

[@ThunderClanFan22]

Even if Jill loves Clive and that Clive loves Jill?

[@Leonhart_93]

@@ThunderClanFan22 It would be funny if Joshua was actually mad here because Clive got a piece of Jill. I wouldn't blame him, Jill is a babe 😅

[@aoto8897]

@@Leonhart_93 He sees her as a sister…

[@Leonhart_93]

@@aoto8897 I was joking but it wouldn't have surprised me if he kept that hidden. They were childhood friends like what? 1 year? I would find it difficult to ever think of Jill as a sister 😅

[@spikey288]

And how little he has for Clive.

[@functionalgopher286]

Joshua got quite a right hand to drop Clive like that. Really great touch that it was the younger brother helping the older brother up as well - usually it's the other way around. It shows that the younger brother can take care of himself and even was watching out for the older brother. I really love the dynamic Clive, Joshua, Jill and Torgal have. True family.

[@vexcarius7100]

No precision dodge, Clive?

[@greenliongirl07]

Well, Joshua was the last person I would've expected to do that next to maybe Jill.

[@RoxasTheBest89]

"nice try"

[@jet44444]

😂😂😂

[@Acesilvergaming]

With bahamut equipped to give it a lil razzle dazzle

[@wazittuya4092]

No megaflare dodge sadly 😢

[@Mr_Normandie]

The relationship of Clive and Joshua looks like the relationship of Edward and Alphonse Elric. ❤️

[@TheFlyingBookworm]

This was one of my favorite moments in the game. Such a brothers thing to do, even brothers that love each other dearly come to blows. It's got a lot of foreshadowing in it that breaks my heart though.

[@masonambrose1093]

The best thing about this game is the brothers relationship

[@MrBcardinal35]

Clive: but I got... you know... laid after. Joshua: k I understand.

[@MegaAndyGG]

Clive: and i am not 33 yo virgin anymore! Joshua: yeah, yeah, dude. I get it!

[@CuteSceneChic]

Clive literally took her Eikon and her virginity in the same half hour. LOL

[@leendaleendawhatsinmyagenda]

​@CuteSceneChic I belive that when she was taken captive it's implied that they ruined her innocence But maybe I misunderstood this point

[@GooseGumlizzard]

@@CuteSceneChicJill wasn’t a Virgin fam. Clive was tho

[@CuteSceneChic]

@@GooseGumlizzard Jill is still innocent in my mind. Lol.

[@3xhollow]

Lightning is smiling somewhere lol

[@EvelynL.1112]

Clive should have told Joshua that it was Jill who suggested first.

[@any4448]

I mean, he took it without hesitation. Clive is to take the blame here.

[@Anonymous-bm6mv]

@@any4448not really 😂

[@Bruhlol656]

​@@any4448nah

[@EvelynL.1112]

@@any4448 He did ask Jill if it was okay first. He clearly was hesitant.

[@deathbykonami5487]

The reason Joshua punched him was less about the eikon and more about Clive trying to shoulder all the world's problems.

[@marvolom787]

In all honesty while i loved Jill as character, Shiva in the story kinda 'was there' and at some point it became painfully oblivious Jill is "past her prime" as an Dominant after 13 long years of being used as war machine. And confrontation with Barnabas probably showed it to her very clearly. Still wished we had at least one moment of Shiva being badass

[@GOHST13ly]

Thats just poor writing and characterization, which is a huge problem with the game

[@marvolom787]

@@GOHST13ly It's weird how the writing can be excelent at times and so, so bland and uninspired at other... second half of the game especially

[@jlit5215]

Jill really did feel like she was purely just present half the time. You could wholly forget her presence in some missions And shiva was robbed. Fun fact she’s the only eikon that never appears on screen with ifrit…Love interest’s eikon, one of the most iconic summons, fire and ice, never shares the screen with ifrit

[@marvolom787]

@@jlit5215 that's also true. And it's a shme because the moments her presence was known were often great - np when she raised her sword at Anabella

[@Diaryofaninja]

100% gav felt more fleshed out than Jill did like Wtf how is she getting caught by Hugo like SHES A DOMINANT TOO cmon…cid for the time he was on had better moments than Jill did

[@SWAGberg2012]

Who would stagger an enemy faster? Every Ability that can melt an enemy’s Will Gauge (including Diamond Dust) OR One right hook from Joshua

[@AdeptKing]

While Joshua’s argument is valid, it did feel it a little hypocritical coming from him. It was also little amusing to me since I think Clive had literally defeated like 80% of the bad guys by himself at this point so he kind of was saving the world alone. Not going to lie though my first reaction was “hit him back” even though I knew Clive would likely never raise his hand against him.

[@shiroutheherotraceon3313]

Phoenix Boy got a mean right hook.

[@Gadgetmawombo]

Kinda hard to take Joshua side about doing things all alone when Bro was literally in the shadows doing things by himself for YEARS until he finally decided to pop in and join his brother towards the common goal. Like bruh...

[@Syotunes]

They took my boys butt. My poor Joshua they did you dirty. You may not be maidenless but you are CAKELESS

[@potenciapilera]

I love Clive but dude... Joshua was so badass

[@NeoakiraIV]

Me being the older brother I was like finally , how you gonna have two brothers in a game and not once do they fight or punch each other….not counting the Ultima stuff it wouldn’t be realistic if they didn’t punch each other once and laugh it off

[@Philkalamansijuice]

Well... those two Sparda Brothers 😅

[@johnshepard8556]

Why are guys so aggressive to each other whether brothers or friends i never felt the need to become physically violent to someone i love in a argument

[@drakofox1362]

​@@johnshepard8556its not about arguments its mostly just play fighting or showing if your friend or family is going down a wrong path and talking wouldn't help then knocking them down will let them listen

[@johnshepard8556]

@@drakofox1362 yeah i am a only child so never experienced it but my 2 cousins both brothers would fight all the time and i did not like it

[@Nikoleonine]

Clive just pulled a Snow from FFXIII by getting punched twice by Cid and Joshua lol

[@Rople50]

Spoilers Someone make an edit of this where Joshua punches Clive for 999,999 damage

[@erikpinto12]

EMOTIONAL DAMAGE

[@SandraHertel-u3b]

Joshua may be ill but, he can still pack a punch. 😂 I will play this game again and again, because I love these characters.

[@alyden567]

I like this how they include a family in the story. Other than FF xiii

[@EvelynL.1112]

What about Final Fantasy 4? Cecil and Golbez are brothers. Final Fantasy 5 had Lenna and Faris as sisters. Galuf and Krile are grandfather and granddaughter. Final Fantasy 8 had Laguna and Squall who are father and son. Final Fantasy 9 has Zidane and Kuja who are brothers. Final Fantasy 10 has Jecht and Tidus who are father and son.

[@SaberRexZealot]

@@EvelynL.1112 In fairness FF10 was over 20 years ago. The family theme hasn’t been as strong in the games since then.

[@EvelynL.1112]

@@SaberRexZealot I guess you got a point.

[@ThunderClanFan22]

Joshua didn’t even have to PUNCH his older brother but I get why Joshua is angry at Clive

[@Bahamut998]

Unfortunately I hear this was a more confusing moment because the Jill/Clive shiva transfer scene dialogue was done differently (and captured intent) better.

[@MidknightFlare8413]

Laughed so hard at this but wondered what if somebody hit Cloud like this. Also the quick reaction from Trogal was like uh oh lol

[@TsukabuNosoratori2]

To be fair, that's one of the few times Joshua for sure ever laid hand on his older brother. Clive probably saw it coming, as experienced as he is in battle at this point, but let it happen. It's his brother after all.

[@Evilriku13]

So to explain in the japanese version Clive actually took Shiva by force from Jill, with force I mean he didn't ask her about it. That makes this scene here more believable why Joshua punched his brother. Kinda weird how that was rewritten but the punch is still there. Maybe to show that Jill is seen as "equal" by having a word into what Clive was doing but.. hard to tell why during localization this was changed so it felt a bit too agressive from Joshua's end to act like that.

[@jamrah8713]

The English was lwritten first in this game. This has been mentioned multiple times in many interviews. It even became a big thing in japan because there’s no Japanese lip sync. This is the original version

[@MinhLe19303]

@@jamrah8713 Not quite, the English script was writen after a rough Japanese script, and then the Japanese script was revamp to fit the English script. Since English script isn't the definitive original language for the whole Japanese-originated franchise, I'm sure future crossover games would take the Japanese version, despite the order of script production reversed. Though I have to say how the Japanese changed that when it's clear that Jill give her Dominant power to Clive, or maybe the context is that she let him absorb it with her consent, 'cause it didn't look forced to me.

[@hermonylee6123]

Yes, there are differences in Clive’s intention when taking Shiva’s eikon between 2 languages. But in Japanese version Clive took it without Jill’s permission. I feel VERY bad watching that scene in Japanese, and they even had sex after that, which did not help building Jill ‘s character at all. I like English’s localization better, Jill fully understood what did Barnabas said, and gave her power to Clive willing.

[@MinhLe19303]

@@hermonylee6123 But how did they changed that when the scene itself literally look like Jill give him willingly?

[@CuteSceneChic]

I'm not going to lie, too me, it still seemed a little forced in the English. I mean, Jill offered sure, but Clive didn't even hesitate or try to talk her out of it. Jill was like "take it" and Clive was immediately like "ok" and puts his hands on her. I excepted him to not take it so fast. It seemed like he actually wanted her Eikon and took it the first opportunity he got so the punch in English still made sense to me.

[@ThunderClanFan22]

Even if Joshua is taller than Clive I bet that Clive could seriously injure his younger brother…

[@Leonhart_93]

Joshua is built like a beanpole, Clive is a lot more massive.

[@MegaAndyGG]

Well, Clive is a soldier after all

[@ThunderClanFan22]

@@MegaAndyGG and shield to his younger brother, I doubt he could ever hurt Joshua since Joshua is sort of like royalty (kinda)

[@AdeptKing]

While my first reaction was “hit him back” we all know he never would hurt his brother. That said, yeah it’s kind of clear Clive is the stronger of the two. Doesn’t help that Joshua is kind of dying right now.

[@ThunderClanFan22]

@@AdeptKing yeah he doesn’t help that Joshua is dying! Joshua is also kind of like royalty but the only royalty we see are the Sanbrequian royal family (Dion, Oliever and Sylvestre)

[@makotoamamiya2442]

Joshua is a bit of a hypocrite he says "dont do things alone" but before dion decided to start a whole revolt joshua refused to show himself, had clive thinking he was dead clive shouldve hit him back for having him believe he was dead

[@timelymirror7826]

that's gotta hurt

[@KEVIN-kf9ys]

Clive: only Joshua didn't Joshua: 🫢

[@shivastars]

Deserved. Because of that Jill was robbed of more fighting scenes and off the last battle in the game

[@Leonhart_93]

Let's be real, it was clear Clive would get her power at some point, he had to have all the eikons in the end. It's much better than her ending up like Joshua did.

[@shivastars]

@@Leonhart_93 Ending up like what? Alive? It’s very much hinted at the end that Joshua survived. Jill could have given Clive her powers in the last battle too so there’s really no excuses

[@Leonhart_93]

@@shivastars All the signs point to Clive having written Final Fantasy, from him being the narrator at the start, to sidequests implying he would become a writer. And ofc he is the one that knows all the events as they happened. Joshua looked pretty darn dead compared to Clive.

[@shivastars]

@@Leonhart_93 I mean you’re right about it also being possible that Clive was the one who wrote the book. Still, Jill could have easily been written in a way that would let her join the final fight. She deserved it

[@liljay3019]

@@shivastarsbro she couldnt even handle an unphazed, fully unprimed version of barnabis in her shiva state. What makes you think there’s any writing scenario in which ultima doesn’t completely obliterate her. Dion was the second strongest clearly, besides ifrit risen, and even he got shat on. They handled jill’s arc respectfully

[@ultimavioletb1599]

He made Josh angy

[@yeetskeet3]

This encapsulates me and my brother so much

[@fallenknight3016]

Also me and my sister

[@DarkLordSauronrocks]

Top 10 paused cutscenes

[@SabRina-zero]

Yup. Thats a solid punch🤣🤣🤣

[@MegaAndyGG]

And still some haters call him femboy lol

[@aoto8897]

@@MegaAndyGG Femboy? Do people even know the meaning of that word???? A femboy is a boy that wears girl clothes. These people who call him as such as Ignorant. Also they are just jealous of how handsome Joshua is.

[@Fodimin]

Me personally I would've recreated the first Ifrit fight after that, but to each his own

[@WinspearUltima]

I can’t believe he did that to his own brother for taking Jill’s eikon. Especially when Clive and Jill did something during when she gave clive shiva.

[@nightowlawaken]

Me too Gav, me too

[@vincenthammons-kd9du]

gav is my favorite character a real bro

[@tamarcussingleton9251]

I understand Where Joshua is coming from Ultima want Clive to become this Mythos by getting the other Eikions's power yet at the same time his own power Immensely. Also he doesn't have to burden himself to save everyone on his own so yeah that punch was wake up call saying quit trying to bear the burden of saving the world on your own I got your back no matter what.

[@Ferdinandcool7]

0:34

[@DarthPingu07]

In the jp version Clive took Shiva by force which is polar opposite of his character and his immense love and respect for Jill. Come on, Clive would never have done that. Ever. She's his world. She has been long before Rosalith castle.

[@Pulowski]

Idk why, but this feels like joshua is mad that clive took her virginity lmao

[@shareefhaddad2377]

I would have done it to my own brother for being a “Dawn of the Future” denier, and to anyone with the nerve to agree with Bahamut’s utilitarian bullcrap back in FFXV.

[@leonnanakashi1851]

Blud whined that shit up too

[@yeetskeet3]

😂

[@lucylu3342]

+20% Bonus Damage against Protagonists

[@gustavob.3202]

Parte mais desnecessária do jogo

[@PrimalDragon1740]

I agree.

[@GooseGumlizzard]

Wtf bro

[@RagnaCloud13]

Clive: well I deserved this punch. (Cue the Phoenix Gate incident)

[@EatTheMarxists]

Just like Gav says “I don’t get it”. What’s the point of this scene? Why is Joshua angry that Clive gets some of Jill’s power? It’s not like Jill is no longer a ridiculously powerful Dominant because she is. Clive gaining that power does not make it impossible, or even difficult, for the Dominants to still call upon their Eikon, so this scene confuses the crap out of me. If anyone thinks that they can explain the point of this scene I would appreciate the effort.

[@Kvin1871]

[Spoilers for until the end / finale of the game] Taking their Eikons (from Dominants) makes the said dominant unable to use their power in control / stable. Yes, they can still use them, but erratic (e.g. Benedikta and Kupka, who pretty much succumbed and wreck havoc). The only one who is able to do this is Dion due to his strong will (as warned by Joshua that he needs a strong will to be able to control Bahamut / Primed). As he is the only one shown to be able to do this on-screen (and throughout the story), we can deduce that it's a rare feat. The point of this scene is to show that Clive's trying to shoulder everything by himself again, instead of allowing others to help him (which is a point in the finale vs Ultima, where Clive claims that everyone helped him to get there, unlike Ultima who shouldered everything).

[@EatTheMarxists]

@@Kvin1871 yes, I believe you’re correct. You are the third person (and I appreciate you all, I really do) that has given me basically the same answer- that Clive took some of Jill’s power so she would be unable to fight with him at the end because he loves his Jilly and he’s terrified of her being killed. Joshua is mad at Clive in this scene because Joshua realizes that Clive wants to do everything on his own, not out of hubris but for the love he has for his family and friends, and Joshua is not going to let him take his power and face Ultima without him. I’ve now completed every side-quest, slaughtered every Mark from the Hunt Board, crafted every weapon and armor, and now there’s nothing left for me to do but go face Ultima for the last time. Well, until Final Fantasy Mode in New Game+, that is. Thanks for your response, my friend!

[@kainakrit9311]

@@EatTheMarxists Joshua couldn't let Clive take his eikon anyway because of a part of Ultima inside him (the hideaway nurse said he would've succumbed long ago if we wasn't a dominant). Ik what the point of the conversation is but it's kind off a fun fact I think about watching the whole thing play out.

[@hermonylee6123]

It’s very easy. Joshua’s angry, why did Clive accept Jill’s idea easily, he should’ve rejected her, he should’ve understood that they can fight together

[@freestyler7117]

@@hermonylee6123 Clive accepted Jill's idea easily because he loves her. It's that simple. He cares way too much for her life considering she's been fighting and suffering for so long.

[@VesperOfRoses]

I mean... Joshua literally told him "the bad guy wants you to collect all the eikons" and Clive went and collected another eikon. I'd have punched him too lol

[@deadspace_658]

You'd think he would been no on the beach with her then smashed

[@samflood5631]

You mean that other eikon was Odin right after Clive killed king barnabas.

[@kome360]

The alternative would be letting Jill succumb to fantasy cancer.

[@perilousloki4712]

@@kome360all bearers have the curse, it only progresses when you use magic. Jill could just not use magic and be cool.

[@SandraHertel-u3b]

And yet Joshua was off acting on his own, trying to save his brother and the world from Enigma. I do think this was a fun scene though and Joshua had a right to be angry with Clive. Clive knew Jill wouldn’t refuse him.

[@TheElementsAreWithMe]

I'm not disagreeing with his point against Clive, but i dont really think Joshua has room to talk about "bearing things alone" when he took it upon himself, to seal Ultima within him. Yes Joshua was short on time, and Clive was right there, but i still feel like they're could've been other options to protect Clive from him.

[@AdeptKing]

I was thinking that too.

[@andysan3764]

I'm also not entirely sure why she's left behind during the final confrontation. Even after giving Clive her powers, she could've still primed into Shiva to help out.

[@HeliosThor64]

There wasn't that much of a choice in that situation. It was either he let Ultima take Clive or seal him away.

[@terellkid1]

There literally were no other options. What did you suppose Joshua do? Fight Ultima alone? 😂😂😂

[@xPrincessGarnetXVI]

ON GOD THOUGH LMAO

[@samflood5631]

I wonder how Joshua would have felt if he found out Clive f**ked Jill after he took her Shiva powers.

[@jelsajanemanangan649]

gosh and heaven ❤ Joshua really damn good calming voice if lost is temper he will mad like a wild

[@omlg2021]

"the world is ours to save." Welp, that didn't age well.

[@asdax8311]

When you think about it: * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Clive got his ass handed to Barnabas. Once in front of Joshua and twice in front of Jill. So of course the thought of Clive going round 3 alone with the possibility of losing once more would anger the worried Joshua.

[@SirFoxbutt]

This was a powerful moment for me, honestly. It really solidifies that Joshua has grown up, he's an adult, he's 28 now. He has so much respect for his friends and his family and he has no problem voicing his opinions or emotions, even to his brother, whom he looks up to so much. It's such a brotherly thing to punch them in the face one moment then the next you're both laughing about it. It's also a really cool touch that Torgal turns his head, clearly sensing the violent intent the moment Joshua turned towards Clive. Also as 0:28, the way Joshua's tense shoulders relax with that sigh before he walks over to punch him, such a subtle detail, almost like Joshua instantly knows what he wants to do the moment he hears Clive confirm it.

[@Harrowing999]

Torgal gave that away. Instantly knew physical harm was coming toward Clive but did nothing seeing it was Joshua. My boy got hands though that right hook was SOLID

[@ronaldlalisan4987]

​@@Harrowing999love torgal. The good wolf witness a lot of heroic to villiany from other characters.

[@spikey288]

There is nothing respectful about punching your brother. Voicing your opinion yes, but that was really childish of him.

[@ThunderClanFan22]

@@spikey288he was angry that Clive could’ve killed Jill! She could’ve easily been killed during that romance scene

[@spikey288]

@@ThunderClanFan22 Taking their power doesn't harm them, she was in no danger at all.

[@drakofox1362]

I love Clives face at this after he got hit from Joshua he is like "yeah i deserved that"

[@barryslieker1789]

1:50 Joshua was right, Clive will not alone. Clive will going to Dissidia Final Fantasy for PS5. If Warrior of Light, Firion, Onion Knight, Cecil, Bartz, Terra, Cloud, Squall, Zidane, Tidus, Shantotto, Vaan, Lightning, Y'shtola & Noctis will meet Clive in Dissidia Final Fantasy.

[@ApexCalibre]

And his 2 partners should obviously be Joshua and Jill

[@kelror1352]

But who would be his main foe, Kupka, Barnabas or Ultima?

[@ApexCalibre]

@@kelror1352 Ultima no doubt

[@mono_art143]

Ardyn be like: "IFRIT! IIIIIIFFFRIIIITTTT COME TO ME!!" Clive: "yeah F you"

[@mauauauauaua14]

@@ApexCalibre i hope it's barnabas

[@crazy_sheep_person]

Gan on Gav, oblivious like lots of us northerners

[@6drago9]

What’s the outro song to these FFXVI videos?

[@laegis_]

I know this response is a month later but it’s ‘Land of Eikons’.

[@aulestethesummoner7546]

I mean...Clive deserved it so he had it coming....

[@spikey288]

Am I the only one who thinks Joshua acted super disrespectful here? He's angry at Clive for taking Jill's power, which she suggested, and for trying to "save the world all by himself", even though he literally brought everyone with him?

[@kieranray5340]

Joshua's implication is that because of how Clive has acted like he's going to save the world on his own, he manipulated Jill. She does say in that scene she wants to give him the power to bear those burdens alone. At the last moment, he would have pushed others away and confronted Ultima alone had Joshua not knocked some sense into him. And as Clive says in the end, loneliness is the key difference between him and Ultima.

[@spikey288]

@@kieranray5340 Except he hasn't acted that way at all, I reject the premise. At that point in the story he includes almost everyone to join him. In fact on the exact mission that Joshua says this Clive brings him, AND then Joshua literally left Clive and Torgal to face Odin alone which is hypocritical af. He did not manipulate Jill at all, in was HER suggestion to share her power with him, and he was hesitant and made and checked to make sure he wanted to do so. How is that manipulation? It was her decision. It also doesn't explain why he messed with Clive at the start by avoiding and goading him into fighting Benedikta, then disappearing again. He does this multiple times throughout the story, hiding and leaving Clive in the dark while he still believes his brother is dead. He has a whole secret organisation at his beck and call, never sends them to help or rescue him from being slave.

[@zander1896]

@@spikey288 When Jill returned from the Iron Islands she spoke of how watching Clive fight gave them the strength to fight alongside him. She even asked him sarcastically if he'd rather fight the world alone to keep everyone safe. Letting him shoulder the burden alone is the last thing she wants but she eventually relents because she could tell that it pained him to see her put herself in dangerous situations. Shiva was the only way she could fight alongside him but she relinquished it to give him what he wanted. Jill would never say no to Clive and he's been saying things like "you shouldn't have to" over and over again, and he's always been terrible at lying. He definitely didn't manipulate her as @kieranray5340 suggested. Jill just knew what he wanted without him having to put it into words.

[@spikey288]

@@zander1896 I agree, and i don't think there's anything bad about that. Him wanting to protect her, and also from a tactical standpoint she isn't suited for priming. It seems to do more bad than good, she gets exhausted. Even if you disagree with Clive Joshua was out of line punching him, he could have simply told him respectfully.

[@tmarie2u279]

​​ Joshua didn't goad Clive into fighting Benadikta. That was Ultima. The reason why Cid can see him is because Ultima can manifest to people if he chooses to. Especially dominants as we see with Dion. Also who would benefit from Clive fighting Benadikta? Ultima or Joshua? Clearly it's Ultima. And after the last fight with Titan, Ultima appears as the hooded figure and Clive says "Is that you Ultima?" and the hood burns away showing it's Ultima underneath it. The game several times shows the hooded figure doing something shady but then a little later it will show Joshua and say Meanwhile and he was somewhere else or arrived later establishing that there were more than one hooded figure in play. Leading Clive to Benadikta, into that Phoenix thing that Joshua was supposed to go into the night their Mom betrayed them, all that was Ultima.

[@Mukation]

I like the detail of Torgal realising that Clive is going to get hurt, yet doesn't intervene because it's Joshua. 🥲