How fast is too fast? Testing 32,500KV WeBleedFPV Screamer Motors!

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00:00:00 - Will higher kv motors make me faster?
00:01:45 - Swapping in the motors
00:02:06 - Meteor65 fails the test flight
00:03:50 - Switching to the Mob6 instead
00:05:29 - Outdoor flight test Mob6 with WeBleed motors
00:08:09 - Race flight test: do the motors make me faster?
00:10:27 - Turning down the throttle scale
00:12:05 - A musical interlude
00:12:54 - My actual fastest laps, and conclusion
My RaceGOW playlist: • How I got 3x better at...

[@PhantomFPV]

You can NEVER go too fast!!! Love the speed. 🔥🔥🔥🦄🦄🦄

[@romankorseev3703]

- Hello motor vendor. I am going into racing and I need your strongest motors. - My motors are too strong for you Joshua...

[@mark6302]

lol oh man

[@ChainsawFPV]

Lmao.

[@dugdogsc]

we all get old man!

[@bradleymorgan8223]

My motors would kill a cinelifter, let alone a tinywhoop!

[@jsmithproductions]

YOU NEED THE GEMFAN BIBLADES WITH THESE MOTORS!

[@IsaacSchultz-lz8jc]

That all depends if you are freestyleing you want bi blade props but raceing you want tri blades

[@KillerWhale806]

@@IsaacSchultz-lz8jctriblades on these motors are just too much load. it'll fry the escs soon. also theres something about the rotating mass or extra thrust or whatever. these super high rpm motors don't fly great on tri blades, as seen in the video.

[@Loganmofficial]

Yeah 0702s can sometimes handle Tri blades that are 31mm. However he has 35mm props which is probably why it was freaking out on high throttle

[@IsaacSchultz-lz8jc]

@killerwhale with the 35mm props you want 0802 for it but those 36000kv 0702 can definitely handle 31mm triblades any of the new aio boards can handle up to 20amp constant

[@chrisdomeier4985]

True

[@sk8erdude88]

Came to learn something today. And learned a musical interlude was what I needed. 😂

[@spladam3845]

You're a community treasure JB. Thanks FPV stepdad.

[@CodyRobertEly]

using the quad cam is an excellent touch and I love it

[@MCsCreations]

Awesome flying, Joshua!!! 😃 Thanks a bunch for the testing and comparison! Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

[@Humble452]

thanks for the video JB, I use webleed GORE Edition 28500kv motors on Mobula 6, they work great and it was a great upgrade for me, as I was not too happy with the stock motors, I am now able to fly the Mob6 inside and out and really enjoy it very much! Appreciate the content!

[@TyranttFPV]

I'm not surprised by the tuning issues when using 0702s with a heavy hdzero build. I just bought these screamers last week and put them on a 18g build and it flies amazingly and is super responsive, but that wasn't experience and I hated flying 22g+ 65 builds. And yes, you lose throttle resolution with higher KV, but usually the pilots that need the higher KV are generally skilled enough to adapt to the loss of resolution pretty quickly.

[@JayReding]

Try those motors on a 17-18g whoop with biblades and you’ll get the experience you want. Adding them to a 20g+ whoop is like putting a supercharged engine on a minivan. Will it be faster? Yes, but it’s nothing like putting it into a purpose-built racer. The 533 whoop build is a challenge, but you put those crazy motors on that build and you’d get something truly special. Even with 26.5K motors a super lightweight build is a totally different beast. Definitely try that (or have Evan custom build you one!) and you will see the kind of significant handling improvement you were looking for.

[@ChainsawFPV]

These motors are amazing. Plenty of torque to pull out of maneuvers. Great throttle resolution. No matter where you point it, it goes. I can't wait till they release the 40,000kv ones!!!

[@Pyrolassist]

One of your best videos! You may have made more tech·ni·cal·ly difficult videos to date, but this one just had perfect timing and a well placed gag that took it to the top! Thanks for what you do!

[@CiottiFPV]

For the record, when you turn the sliders on you lose the specific number they had entered in which is fine since they're setup for the painfully low 19,000kv motors

[@HoltBlackheathFPV]

12:16 Might make this my turtle mode switch sound.

[@hateeternalmaver]

Troll face is now Bardwell Face?! xD haha, that was funny^^

[@TomasWatchReviews]

love those racing videos where you try to improve something. I actually love all your videos :D

[@FPV_TitaN]

Love the whoop content keep it coming :)

[@MichaelHeinrich1]

You should reduce prop pitch when you use higher KV Motors. On a tight course there is no high speed, so props with less pitch are going to bite better.

[@kevinthealienfpv]

I feel like you would benefit greatly from some properly set throttle expo instead of motor limiting. Throttle expo is an absolute game changer with these high kv motors. Also, if you continue using the Mob6, consider resetting the PIDs to default and re-tuning the quad. The stock PIDs are very high in order to compensate for the lack of thrust/power from the stock motors. Great flying and great improvements so far!

[@RyanQuellet]

Nice experiment. You'll find increasing the camera angle has a perhaps bigger impact on speed than this motor swap

[@johncarold]

Hi Josh, Great video and review of Webleed screamer motors. I have been using [for my mobula 6 22,000kv. I just need to try these 32,500kv and see what happens. Thanks again for the video and information.

[@dennismatovich8411]

Good stuff! Is it possible to make a 1 channel lap counter?

[@DigitalCruzer]

Damn they really spiced up those motors, i thought my NBD plaid motors was 🔥 when i got them almost 2 years ago, but i also run a 75 cuz i like to fly outside, bout to convert it to a fractal soon, i blew my aio last summer and never got around to fixing it, i keep getting different parts for it, lol, but I'm running a betafpv aio

[@carterdavis5176]

What camera did you use to record the talking shot in the woods at 5:31? I really like the lens flares

[@parallax_aerial_photography]

I really wish it was possible to make a truly indoor-capable tinywhoop with a Runcam Wasp or something. I'm so heavily invested in DJI digital that I don't want to switch over for just one quad but indoor tinywhoop flying looks like so much fun and a great way to spend the winters in my area when it's too cold to fly outside

[@bastardjosh1354]

I got it as well. Im just gonna put expresslrs module on it. And go with whoops that jave that? Ill keep my qx7 for my d8

[@Catboy-hr2qp]

The question we should be asking is, why is bardwell still flying angle mode inside?

[@mattconn241]

@JoshuaBardwell instead of motor limiting at 10:45 did you consider adjusting midpoint and using throttle expo? @ciottifpv recent had a live that went through it.

[@whatsthematter8767]

I NEED that lap timer voice to use on my radio! Anyone know where I can find it or something similar?

[@kieren7763]

I personally noticed a decent difference in your flight characteristics you were tighter to the inside lines for sure and just sharper all together .I personally find sitting helps I feel like it takes brain power to stand and balance not much but I feel like I just free that up when sitting down especially with whoops

[@bramble-east]

Swapping to motors both lighter and higher KV would require changing filters, first and foremost. I had a similar issue with motor swapping Mobula6, I went from 19000KV 0802 to 28000KV 0702, and flight performance was crap. Jittery and noisy. Tuning the filters by following Ciotti FPV recommendations, and applying Quad66 presets I was able to smooth things out. Turns out, 28000KV 0702 are not trash, and are, if fact, based. I got about 30 seconds more flight time and much more power after all of the tweaks.

[@maxl6058]

Could you throw some links on this guides please?

[@Halphbaked210]

Bardwell... Hope your hitting those high kv's with some throttle expo.... game changing

[@t4lly82]

Hey jb! I almost have the same issue with my mobula6. I did not change anything. The motors make the same noise like yours did. Also the quad flew away like yours. I tried to find an answer in your discord , but nobody seem to have an idea 😢 ordered the mob6 and can’t fly it. rip

[@user-tp3dg5ym6u]

try to change prips on the meteor. maybe iriginal just go into flatter

[@The2xWhiskey]

Now this was a good video.

[@stevegigg6066]

Do those motors still run on standard lipo batteries 450/550 3.7v 1800mA, also the meteor is that analog and ELRS? Great vid dude 🤙🏼

[@grepboy]

You're gonna try and show up to a race with these - I feel the disturbance in the force.... LOL

[@macrokernel13]

Perhaps you should try something in the middle of the range like 25-26 kkv motors. And certainly use biblade props.

[@keithcarpenter5254]

Probably be worth hand finishing the prop blades, and dynamically balancing the lightest props you can get. At those rpm, destructive vibrations would be bad. Try to avoide supersonic tip speeds too!😊

[@nic_RC]

The biblades on the mobula were probably an advantage at that high kv. Mine at 220000kv does much better with the biblades over the tri.

[@bbsheppo]

Oh there nice!

[@DroneOn]

I freestyle, but on higher kv motors, give bi blades a try, im my experience i get better throttle respinse with a little trade iff for sliperry cornering. In a few packs you learn the throttle and corner the same. I dont race seriously, but mostly freestyle.

[@locksmith9580]

I wanted to get the new mobula 6 2024. But I think it’s ELRS only. I have a frsky qx7 ASST. Which whoop do u recommend for frsky and analog

[@glitchunicorn]

I picked these up a month ago for my Mobula 7. To me they are a lot of fun.

[@josetorres6127]

How are they holding up on the mobula7?

[@glitchunicorn]

@@josetorres6127 not to well… one of them went out

[@user-tp3dg5ym6u]

you also should try 75 mm whoop with 25000 kv

[@GeekBench92]

you coming to the whoop open in April??

[@jandomingo9806]

I remember on a 5inch i had wobbles.. i lowered the D something i forgot wat it was wat it was in the rates section i think.. from memory it was 1600 stock.. lowered to about 1300 wobbles disappeared at full punch. I always thought it was the frame but nah

[@thehootpoot8647]

any chance those 32kkv motors were pulling too much current for the plugs? could soldering make a difference?

[@bastardjosh1354]

Does the expressLRS v2 nano module work with x-lite pro? Is the latency as good as the v1?

[@barcia475]

Hi Joshua, I have the same issue you had in the Meteor65 with my 3 inch 3S (HM 1204 6500KV, DarwinFPV AIO, so no blackbox, Bluejay 0.18). Lowering PID master multiplier to 0.8 tame it quite a bit, but I'm very interested to know if you find a solution.

[@NightworksYT]

Have you heard of the tiny whoop firefly motors, they 0702 36000 kv

[@CasperskullsAdventures]

What about the 702 27000kv motors 533 suggests

[@calebschillo2794]

What is Joshua's live stream schedule, I thought I saw it somewhere but maybe I was dreaming.

[@kobusdowney5291]

Looks like on the first whoop, your battery voltage bottoms out. It is most probably drawing too much current on your controller, causing massive voltage drop on your escs.

[@Sugalime3D_FPV]

I gonna use these on my 45 mm FPV tiny whoop with 21 mm props. 😁

[@TheDanteBoots]

You need some bi-blades I think, iirc tri-blades produce more torque/lift at lower rpms and bi-blades have less mass which reduces strain on high kv motors.

[@zer001]

Whatt says JB about the Redbull fastest Droe? I know a video from you JB 3 Years ago with almost 350 Km/H

[@itsgoofy3189]

Ineed help I just got the jumper t light v2 and I need help flashing it I open the configurator and set the release as 3.3.2 device category should be jumper 2.4GHz and the device should have 2400 tx but the only options are stuff that says 2.4GHz please I need help I might quit I don't want to I want to fly whoops

[@tonhabraken9339]

What’s the weight of those quads? Most of my whoop racing friends running such high kv motors are targeting 17 grams or lower…

[@jeffmcclain]

I'm guessing going to 0702, *and* trying to bump up nearly double on kV on those 35mm tri-blade props of the Meteor65 Pro was just too much (for PIDs *and* the 5A ESC). Possibly bi-blades would have helped at that point, but honestly, I'm not sure why you wouldn't have just tried 0802 with 23-25kV. I think that would have performed better. Still, the 31mm on the Mob6 with like 0702-28kV probably is a hard platform to beat...unless you shed 1.5-2g on the HDZero and go analog too. LoL. Ok..enough arm-chair quarterbacking. Thanks for the video. You're awesome!

[@Mr_Meaty]

I switched to higher kv motors and had similer weird wobbles at full throttle. Turned out my props were spinning on thr shafts cause rhey were too loose. LOL!

[@davelie291]

Can you do a review on "XILO Stax V2 Combo - F4 FC + F4 45A BLHeli_32 3-6S 4-in-1 ESC" next please

[@IsaacSchultz-lz8jc]

You need to try the 40,000kv once they come out

[@vpr0]

You should try throttle expo instead of limit

[@vicenteriquelmezavala2110]

try biblades also... it can surprise you

[@powersv2]

Headsup did a video on what he’s looking for to improve. Might be an opportunity to get tips from him and limon.

[@Waffles4Penguin]

I don’t know if this question is going to be answered in the video, what exactly does different KV do? I’m looking at a whoop, the two I was considering was the meteor65 pro or the new mobula 6, and they have a lot different KV, just wondering how that affects flight? Ok yeah maybe it’s just RPM of the motors…

[@nic.h]

KV=RPM/Volt so it's more than just RPM

[@richardamiss7000]

Lol on the Family Guy style interlude!

[@jasonpressler7111]

We have found that anything over 22,000 kv should be direct soldered to the ESC to reduce the sag you are seeing in those tight turns.

[@JoshuaBardwell]

The Happymodel Mob6 is direct soldered.

[@c2819fnf]

Nice house

[@rawpicsfpv3516]

whats the perfect tinywhoop size for gnb 1s 500mah lipos? Got a lot of them laying around:)

[@josetorres6127]

75mm. Meteor 75

[@mrthingdudeman]

PIDs! It the most blackbox aspect about quads. and I bet would fix your trilling. If you can't do it, then how is anyone else expected to?

[@TheReaperGrim63336]

I get 5 min on diamond Aio screamers and gemfan tri blade

[@FPVYeti]

The betafpv 19,500kv motors aren’t the go to, no. But I kv tested them to actually be on par with 22,000kv motors. It’s not super common to see 802 22,000kv motors on a race build but I’ve seen some top tier pilots use them and fly faster than I ever have, such as Orangestuff and RAB. Even tdog is often using kv as low as 25-26k I personally prefer a little higher kv than that for my 65mm builds, especially since I dont go as light with my builds and dont need as much efficiency as those guys, but there’s no denying how hard the top pilots can rip lower/mid range kv

[@KidCe.]

These high KV motors seem to be "crazy high power upgrade" right now. I think that will soon change and everyone goes high kv like this and it will be the norm. Sadly it wasnt when i began flying and i was having so much problems when starting out with a meteor65pro... evrything got sooo much easier with higher kv motors

[@DronzenFPV]

Funny I sing/tralallalaaa that song all the time....😂

[@winder6]

Maybe play with adding more camera angle. 30-35-40 cheers great job.

[@Mellow.1]

To go faster, swap to rate mode, and your batteries are always undercharged. If you want to really whoop race, get webleed 300 mah batteries lihv. If you feel thats TOO SLOW for you, use the 270's. Thats what the pros do

[@maxl6058]

What is the hdzero whoop weight?

[@modquad18]

23.4g w/stock motors

[@modquad18]

Is that the NuclearHazzard Atom lap timer?

[@modquad18]

Nvm, saw a comment further down 👍🏽

[@FPVKrash]

No worries about what those jacked up kvs might do to an ESC? Tiny Whoop has a full on warning about using that high of a kv motor on their sales site. That warning gave me the cold feets and I’m going to be trying out some 27k kv motors in the near future since I got scared off from the 32.5k.

[@JoshuaBardwell]

I like to live dangerously.

[@FPVKrash]

@@JoshuaBardwell if you keep flying those motors as hard as you were, please keep us posted about the lifespan of that AIO! I”d like to know if I blew it by getting all scared of the extra zippy spin!

[@KButler88]

Capacitor help maybe?

[@Truth12345]

I'm a bit confused, lower kv motors have more torque and should have faster ramping up/down rpm. My guess is your props provide to little lift or your tuning with your pids resulted in faster times.

[@JoshuaBardwell]

Every part of your statement about torque, kv, and responsieveness, does not match empirical test data. You're repeating myths about motors that have been debunked. Torque is roughly proportional to stator volume, all else being equal. The motor's kv rating cannot be used to predict the amount of torque the motor will create. Generally, you would expect an 0702 to make less torque than an 0802, but because of its stator volume, not because of its kv. Kv affects torque constant, not total torque generated. A higher kv motor requires more current to generate torque, but does not generate less torque, assuming the power source is capable of supplying sufficient current. Higher kv motors are generally more responsive, not less, unless the current source becomes a limtiing factor in their ability to generate torque.

[@Truth12345]

@@JoshuaBardwellThank you for the extended reply, I also watched a video of Chris Rosser back where he tests motors. The most responsive motors are the ones that have the highest torque and highest kv.

[@jonscot8393]

FAA will look at this and outlaw this size now, Roll on the Nano Quads by WeDead.

[@geordil]

the 32500kv motors was too much powertrain for your frame and d gains. You can see it oscillating just hovering and I'm sure you could hear it. They worked on the mob6 hdz because you have another board on there to stiffen the frame, plus extra weight. Just turn the master multiplier down or get a stiffer frame.

[@JoshuaBardwell]

I 100% tried pid tuning the Meteor, including changing D gain, master multiplier, and filters.

[@TheWalter777]

mr ciotty was a good info beacon?

[@petrokey]

Betafpv just released a new 'lava' battary with 75c - maybe higher 'c-rate' will help?

[@JackalFPV]

Definitely! Because of that reason I used GNB / Tattu high C rated 1S packs. And connectorwise BT 2.0 or similar.

[@divingfalconfpv4602]

Be nice if they made the 95c in 300mah

[@JackalFPV]

@@divingfalconfpv4602 webleed, tattu and others make them. With BT 2.0. Its even more important to have heigh c with that lower capacity. Makes more of a change.

[@divingfalconfpv4602]

@@JackalFPV well I use gnb27 & A30.. so I got change battery plug

[@JackalFPV]

@@divingfalconfpv4602 Use BT 2.0 pigtail, it fits A30 and BT 2.0. I switched years ago to BT 2.0 but there were no packs other than BetaFPV to buy. That now all changed.

[@levitatedfpv9742]

The 40000kv Ciotti has been running have to be Ludacris 🔥

[@Roflgator7]

Holy shit I’m not the only one who randomly sings the troll song 🤣🤣🤣

[@divingfalconfpv4602]

He's testing 40,000kV now hahahaha

[@bmonden]

Silly Joshua, we are doing 40,000kv over on Ciotti’s stream 😂

[@jsm99]

Why aren’t you losing your HD video link on the Mob6 when the voltage was sagging to 3-3.1? I have the Vision40 with the 450mah WeBleed batteries and it’s almost unflyable when the battery drops below 3.5v because a throttle pump or spin/flip/roll will cause the voltage to sag below the 3.1v minimum for the VTX and I lose video. It’s done this since it (and the batteries) was brand new.

[@JoshuaBardwell]

You're using Walksnail vTX right? I'm using HDZero. Looks like HDZero can tolerate lower voltage.

[@divingfalconfpv4602]

Walksnail drops at 3.06v HDZero drops at 2.78v

[@Voyajer.]

@@divingfalconfpv4602TIL

[@jsm99]

@@JoshuaBardwell Yes, Walksnail vTX. Well that is a much more simple explanation than I expected. I didn't realize minimum voltage varied between vTX, but then again why would it be the same, either? :) Thanks so much for your response.

[@jsm99]

@@divingfalconfpv4602 Thank you so much!

[@blackjungle308]

40kkv motor video when? :D Jokes aside, I wonder if you hit the max current the ESCs could handle, and they slumped? (Just rewatched some parts: The meteor was at 12amps most of the time. The mob6 hit 12 amps only when you blipped the throttle. interesting.)

[@IsaacSchultz-lz8jc]

The esc rating is per motor so a 5 amp board can handle 20 amp constant and a 24 amp burst total

[@bbsheppo]

You need a lighter tinywhoop, the new mob6 would be perfect.

[@TurboDrifterZar]

I never knew Bardwell was Canadian.

[@tommaillard1415]

From my experience these kinds of motors are so fast they destroy themselves as they go. They are just meant to give you a boost at the cost of replacing motors often. 22/25000 kv is already quite nice and will last. 19500 is good for beginning.

[@a-rad4139]

I just fly meteor75 stock, break it, then get a new one. Amazon shouldn’t offer me a replacement plan.😂

[@adamwolfy4826]

PROPS! 2 blade low pitch

[@Ice-FaceMedia]

I beleive in you bro......push it !!!...9.5 lap.....lol

[@catbroh]

Your center speaker is much too high JB :)