Intonation: 8 Common Mistakes

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[@holly._.4387]

Hi, I decided to note down each mistake we may make when playing.. hope this helps! 1:08 Violin out of tune 2:14 wrist being bent 3:22 Not ‘squeezing’ the neck of the violin 4:38 fingers too far away from the fingerboard - delays reaction because it takes longer to place them back on. 5:43 shifting - turn left hand more towards the right. 6:44 fingertip being too heavy 8:28 Double stops - making sure you’re not doing 3rd finger before 1st finger, and making 3rd finger sharper 10:48 breaking down a fast phrase into separate bows checking you have good posture and bowing correctly.

[@lau279]

thank you so much 😄❤️❤️

[@holly._.4387]

@@lau279 you’re welcome! :D

[@rsam1967]

I think I am a 'music idiot' or 'music dyslexic'; cannot tune the violin, cannot distinguish flat and sharp intonation! But thankfully with technological advancement with the electronic tuner I am able to tune - so I am able to play. No matter how bad I sound in playing I have started practicing often. Your videos are very helpful to progress!

[@pianoladyforreal1026]

🤣🤣🤣😂😂

[@arteggers1]

Thank you for taking the time to prepare your videos. I'm 65 years old and taking up the violin. I've played the guitar and bass for 50 years so I know how important intonation is and it's helping me to learn the intonation on the fretless violin. I need all the help I can get to learn to master the violin now... it's a challenge.

[@royelmo38]

I have a first time student who is 89. If you apply yourself as dilligently as you did on guitar, playing violin will happen much faster than you think. As she stated in this video, tension is the determining factor for proper note intonation. You must be as relaxed as possible with both hands and even in your chin rest and neck.

[@arteggers1]

@@royelmo38 Thank you!

[@lowellirish]

Dude! I was 48 when I took up fiddle. after 2 years, I wiped out on my motorcycle and needed 9 pins in my Left wrist, and already had 4 pins in my left index finger...My bodhran hand (Irish frame drum) now has carpal tunnel. I got BACK into fiddle after needing 2 years recovery, and now playing 4 years...So 6 years, with a 2 year break...literally! I found that guitar was achievable over Covid. 2018- current. I'm a performer, and multi-instrumentalist, so it came faster to me I 🤔 think? I picked up fiddle here and there just to refresh, but mostly settled into guitar for the past 3.6 years. I've gotten to the point of Intermediate level on both. I Travis pick, strum and do a little lead...mostly cowboy chords, but also many barre chords and a few 4 finger chords...As to fiddle? I'm exploring double stops, and speed. Playing 90% of my tunes at speed, and pretty precisely. That being said? With your background on guitar? You know it's all about SLOW first, and then speed. You'll do it...just like guitar...time=$$

[@ohtoriginalhimbeertoni]

I can see it in your eyes that you love your job! Thank you so much... 👏👏👍👍

[@JoyLeeViolin]

Yes I do!!! :)

[@liamnevilleviolist1809]

9:50 perfect example of needing to change certain notes to get intervals nicely in tune! Not many (young) violinists know this! I'm glad I was taught this "phenomenon" at the age of 12. Thank you again for demonstrating :)

[@JoyLeeViolin]

Thank you very much also Liam!

[@petrslivinski7481]

My wife took violin lessons but wasn't taught how to hold the violin properly and how to move the fingers up towards the bridge properly. She watched you in complete amazement how your method helped her ease up the fingerboard. Thank you for sharing this valuable information.

[@JoyLeeViolin]

So glad to hear that Petr! You're most welcome and Thanks as well! I wish your wife lots of fun with violin playing!

[@DH-CA]

Another trick I’ve learned throughout the years of playing is to listen to the pieces I play (on recording) many times to compare and have some good references when I actually playing. Surprisingly, how often I don’t realize I’m missing some stuffs. As usual, thank you - great job !

[@ameerah2959]

This video is UNDERRATED! It has answers to most of my questions about intonation that everyone has to know. For self taught people, it's more questionable because some of us unconsciously out of tune, and what's worse is that we don't even know the limits of playing out of tune. We want someone to listen to our playing and say "yes" or "No". Thx so much for helpful stuff

[@JoyLeeViolin]

Thank you so very much Amee! Happy music making! :)

[@TheHWine]

I'm going to watch all your videos because I found all I watched so far are really really helpful. I wish you were my teacher.

[@JoyLeeViolin]

Happy to help! Thank you very much!

[@krishiyer3990]

Your vibrato lessons helped me a lot. And then I realized I have watched so many of your videos so many times and have not subscribed at all. Today I did :)

[@JoyLeeViolin]

Glad you like them! Thank you for subscribing Krish!

[@JSB2500]

11:37 "Wide open ears". Gold! 😃 All gold, actually 🙂. Here's a wide open "Thank you!". 😄

[@JoyLeeViolin]

You're most welcome John. Happy practising! :))

[@lukeli8750]

Thank you so much for the tip. I play cello and am looking for the solution to my shaking bow. This video pride answers to my problem.

[@JoyLeeViolin]

You're most welcome Luke. I am glad to hear that my video is helpful to you. Happy practising!

[@royelmo38]

Helping me understand proper bowing techniques greatly improves my teaching abilitys. Thanks!

[@MarisaPorterVirtually]

This was SO helpful!

[@JoyLeeViolin]

So glad to hear that Marisa. Thank you also!

[@RicardPzV]

Thank you. I love the way you teach. Simply and clear. You have the best KZbin channel about violin in the net. Regards from Spain.

[@JoyLeeViolin]

Wow, thank you so much Sphynx!

[@laurencelance586]

Mistake #2 is one I must work on fixing. Thank you!

[@lisazheng7141]

Dear Joy, you approach teaching in a very systematic way. Thank you.

[@JoyLeeViolin]

That's such a nice compliment. Thank you Lisa! :)

[@jub8891]

the just intonation thing was fascinating.. overall a very helpful video. thanks Joy

[@JoyLeeViolin]

Glad it was helpful!

[@garybarlich1030]

All good tips. I will be watching this video several times more. :)

[@JoyLeeViolin]

I am so glad to hear it! Happy practising Gary!

[@MaHa-um5sv]

thank you so much! This is very helpful!

[@JoyLeeViolin]

You're most welcome Maha. Thank you also and happy practising!

[@lowellirish]

Thank you again, Joy!☺️

[@JoyLeeViolin]

You are so welcome James! Happy practising!

[@gregwilkin6565]

Thank you for sharing. :)

[@JoyLeeViolin]

You are so welcome! and thank you also Greg!

[@lukewhaley4487]

Thank you! You helped me with my intonation very much!

[@MandolinSunrise]

Thank you very much Joy! I appreciate your work, your vids have really helped me. I just started playing fiddle (yet again) yesterday and learned how to actually use rosin properly. Big difference. And your teaching about doublestops too. I was playing EB doublestop thinking why is the E too sharp even though they are parallel with each other on the fretboard! Have a nice day. 😊

[@JoyLeeViolin]

Hi Mandolin, you're most welcome and welcome back to the violin world! I am happy that you are playing your violin again :) Happy practising with lots of rewarding moments! I wish you a beautiful day also!!

[@shipsahoy1793]

Joy, I think I love you! Excellent lesson! 😘

[@MsSemibreve]

I can't thank you enough for this wonderfull class!

[@JoyLeeViolin]

aww.. That's such a nice thing to hear :) You're most welcome and thank you as well Franca!

[@engguimaraes7958]

Thank you very much!

[@JoyLeeViolin]

You're welcome!

[@groovellous1]

I was hoping to find the problem that my student had today: not letting the left elbow swing to enable the wrist to remain straight and the fingers the same shape for each string. My student has his elbow in one place and twists his wrist to get his fingers to the upper strings. So that's number 9 common mistake.

[@stevesewful]

fabulous -as always. many thanks

[@shaheenmunawar3309]

Nice tips. Good expressing style. 👍

[@Zxouf873]

Amazing video 💕🎻

[@Plathianloner]

Your videos are so helpful, thank you!

[@JoyLeeViolin]

Thank you also Steverino!

[@MangAiren]

Thank you!!

[@thepetkeepergirl15]

Thank you so much! I’m learning a lot from your videos!

[@JoyLeeViolin]

you're most welcome Hannah!

[@verasheila7981]

Thank you Joy

[@JoyLeeViolin]

thanks as well Vera!

[@ting7207]

Thanks a lot for giving us such amazing videos

[@JoyLeeViolin]

You're most welcome Thu! :)

[@mechanicaldidgeridoo5741]

Good video! Thank you Joy!

[@jalajasankar6369]

Good video. Thank you so much Joy

[@machanrahan1074]

Thank you for making all these videos freely available. They help a lot of people. I have a question concerning "just" intonation. How is it that two separate notes (eg 3rds) sound in tune when played separately but false when played together? Sounds illogical to my non-musician mind.

[@JoyLeeViolin]

Dear Mac, I understand that it could be hard to understand. But our ears can hear the perfect harmony and this is what I am relying on as well. Sound engineers will probably talk about the different shapes of sound wave and can give more academic explanation.

[@katam6471]

I'm not a professional musician and not very good att musical theory. But I find it interesting and just the other day I watched a YT-clip that helped me get a better understanding on this. Maybe it could help you to. (You don't have to understand the maths to get the general idea.) kzbin.info/www/bejne/iorLgXSYqK6kd5o

[@dovbrodkin4497]

There are certain distance between notes that sound good to our ears. These distances are mathematical ratios. The problem with tuning using these ratios is that some notes sound incredible with one another while others sound terrible. There are some interesting videos about somewhere on KZbin that do a good job explaining why that is, but in short, if you set the pitch of g from your c and then set the pitch of D from your g etc, one of the future notes won't match up well with the c note or other notes that were used many steps prior. Therefore, nowadays we use a tuning system which from a mathamtical point of view isn't always perfect, but is pretty good for all the notes. This system is called the equal tempered system if I remember correctly. When we play violin, we have the option of playing using the perfect mathamtical ratios or playing with the equal tempered system. When we play notes melodically we generally use the equal tempered system that puts an equal "amount" of distance between each note. That will sound fine when played seperately, but when we play them together, which highlights the ratios between them, it might sound a little off.

[@philipq6906]

I feel very confused about the internation in double stop because I played piano and this is not an issue in piano. BTW I am planning to learn violin this would be much more fun

[@JoyLeeViolin]

Hi Peiliang, here are some videos about double stops. I hope these are helpful to you. Happy violin playing! kzbin.info/www/bejne/g5fOo4ucpaeHfKs kzbin.info/www/bejne/pnrZeadjm8aZr9U

[@philipq6906]

@@JoyLeeViolin Thank you~ I never thought you would reply. Your videos are invaluable. Sorry I cannot support you on patreon at the moment because I am a student. Once I find a secure job I will definitely pay you back on these youtube lessons

[@philipq6906]

@@JoyLeeViolin I am now using musicwrench app on iPad. This app can show Pythagorean and just intonation it is super helpful

[@carlosiason9401]

So helpful, thank you 💕

[@johnj.817]

Beloving teacher😍😍😍

[@marcossp6258]

Hi teacher, thanks for this brilliant violin class again. Have you recorded some video about exercises to play in the correct point of contact? Thanks again.

[@urieluy2025]

She has. Try searching for them and you should be able find them. :)

[@JoyLeeViolin]

Thank you Uri!

[@JoyLeeViolin]

Thanks Marcos. if you search for " sound" in my channel, you will find many videos in that topic. Here is one of them kzbin.info/www/bejne/in-9Z4xroambrtU

[@williamkauffman5745]

I tune the violin every time I pick it up to play

[@JoyLeeViolin]

That's a very good habit William!

[@williamng8927]

Like it,that's great

[@JoyLeeViolin]

I'm glad you like it

[@Cranberry_haley]

This "just intonation" concept is somewhat confusing for me and scary, because I didn't know that this was a thing until now, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to adapt :< Edit: How do I know if I'm "in harmony" or not? And how do I know whether I should make a note in a double stop either flatter or sharper?

[@JoyLeeViolin]

Searching for perfect harmony with Just Intonation can be difficult when we are new to this concept. One needs to first find out which note is dominant one ( melody carrying note) and allow the other notes to move a bit up or down to be in perfect resonant harmony. A perfect harmonious double stop will sound immediately bigger as it will resonate with other overtones too. But if can't hear it first, don't worry , as you will get better with time. Here are some videos for you practice. Happy practising! kzbin.info/www/bejne/mpyXpaGfeMmaf6M kzbin.info/www/bejne/aXm2iIV9j510bJI

[@Cranberry_haley]

@@JoyLeeViolin thank you joy lee, I'll make sure to watch it!

[@NeomiNemeth]

I have a question about fingers being far away from the fingerboard. I was told that that is the reason I am unable to play fast passages, and it sure makes sense. But then I watch a Maxim Vengerov video, I scratch my head. He plays like a tornado and I've never seen anyone having his fingers farther away from the fingerboard than him. So...my question: do I have to correct this habit, or is it possible to speed up my play regardless?

[@JoyLeeViolin]

In general, it's easier to play fast passages, if the left fingers are placed close to the fingerboard. There are of course players who have been playing in a certain way for such a long time and somehow made it work like Vengerov. But in my opinion, it's worth to work with the nature of physics to make our playing easier. Happy violin playing Aspiring Violinist Newbie!! :)

[@terrywoodard3051]

Joy, Been busy practicing with good vocals (pop songs, and I am working on viola). Your videos are excellent, keeping perspective on all the areas of playing music. Always good for me to check in, and a boost to my practice sessions. Thank you. tw

[@KaladinStormBlessed190]

How can i get ride off the bad habit of a tension in the thumb? I feel like i need to put some pressure in my thumb in order to get precision to play the notes in tune an often to reach the 4th finger (the pinky). I think i have small hands too and that only make the thing worse T. T

[@JoyLeeViolin]

Sometimes taking the left thumb off the neck once it a while ( just to check) helps to release the pressure. I hope you can try this. happy violin playing!

[@jamiwillson9770]

Do you write the book references down?

[@JoyLeeViolin]

Hi Jami, I am speaking from my own experience from my teaching studio and not referring any specific books. Happy practising!

[@johnwarren7155]

A beautiful lady with the cutest dimples .

[@youaretotallyright3686]

why do you have to comment about the way she looks? it's completely irrelevant to the topic of discussion.

[@92keys524]

She has a very kind face. Reminds me of my second piano teacher. Good souls.

[@american3763]

I wonder if she is Eddy Chen's sister?

[@JoyLeeViolin]

Hi American, Sorry, I am not Eddy Chen's sister. :)

[@liamderosa2157]

I got knocked back a suzuki book for bending my wrist

[@antoncigur3727]

You are beautiful

[@tastybanana420]

Sensei wa kawaii desu.

[@JoyLeeViolin]

ありがとうございました

[@InsaneKobe]

4 fine tuners?? hmm... amateur... (joke)

[@JoyLeeViolin]

:)

[@92keys524]

Bending the wrist also contributes to carpal tunnel syndrome.... not a good thing for a musician.

[@langhamp8912]

You didn't mention buying a fretted violin. You can't know the proper pitch until you've heard it many times, and you can't hear the proper pitch if you're responsible for making the note. Get a fretted instrument, properly tuned, hear the perfect notes, then take that memory to the violin.

[@royelmo38]

Fretted instruments will not help you develop a good "ear". So many variables on the frets such as finger pressure, finger position, fret location for proper note discernment actually make intonation much more difficult to learn. I prefer to teach intonation by using a tuner on the headstock as you play. Muscle memory must be initiated as quickly as possible to effect the progress of advanced playing techniques.

[@langhamp8912]

@@royelmo38 I also play a mandolin. You press your finger down onto the fret and pluck the string, and almost the perfect note is played (it's always a tiny bit off). It's really simple. Press and pluck. One can be amazingly sloppy, and it still works! Why, it almost feels as if the mandolin is a violin done right... I argue all fretted instruments are fantastic for developing a good ear, much better than a tuner on a peg, because the violin a two step process whereas the fretted instrument is merely one.

[@royelmo38]

@@langhamp8912 there is no arguement that fretless is more precise than fretted. It is merely a scientific fact. As precisely as you might play any fretted instrument, the frets themselves will let you down. If you don't believe me, put a tuner on your instrument and see what you get for readings on each fretted note. You will be quite surprised.

[@langhamp8912]

@@royelmo38 We're talking about two different things, probably because you're merely skimming what I wrote. Read the words carefully, speaking aloud.

[@royelmo38]

@@langhamp8912 facts are facts and undisputable in any arguement. Whatever you may add is merely opinion and of no consequence to the point.