Sonic in the 2010's | An Embarrassing Waste

[@deadweight4887]

They ruined a lot of characters too, most of them were flanderized. Shadow acts like a rival all the time, Silver is basically filler at this point, Omega does nothing, Blaze does nothing, no one besides Sonic and Classic Sonic does something.

[@DanieleMulas-up7np]

Exactly. They took Shadow's nuance away to turn him into poorman Vegeta. They got rid of Team Dark's great chemistry, as shown in that shitty TSR overdrive short for the sake of *CoMeDy* . And pretty uch like everyone who isn't Sonic, Tails and Eggman, they never do anything worthwhile.

[@papersonic9941]

Shadow got ruined the moment they brought him back from the dead. If anything he became better from 06 onwards. But he should've died.

[@DanieleMulas-up7np]

@@papersonic9941 I hate to say it, but basically yes. 06 DID fix his personality, coming from the disaster that was ShTH. A cool headed, Daniel Craig's James Bond-esque agent, who cares about his comrades. Too bad it was the only good part of 06's story. Now he's just a shitty Vegeta rip-off.

[@prufan]

Sonic was never supposed to just be a kids game. Sonic is supposed to be for teens and young adults.

[@DemonDethchase]

@@DanieleMulas-up7np but Tails isn't really being treated very well either these days. Now he's now abit of a wimp who can't do anything without Sonic. I know most sight Chaos 0 in Forces, but even before that he's seen him cowering at regular Eggman troops he would have smashed without breaking a sweat back in day. Whatever happened to the little fox who could from the Adventure days who saved Station Square by beating Eggman all by himself? Sega could have ran with his confidence being shaken, while fighting the war against Eggman, only to then double down it more so - as the line of Tails has lost it suggests - after Infinite "kills" Sonic - as in SA2 rather than breaking down, when he sees Sonic being ejected from the ARK to his death, he becomes more vengeful while fighting Eggman but lets roll with it - hence why he's having the hard time fixing up Omega and getting scared when Chaos appears. But then when classic Sonic appears, all that goes out the window and he's back normal again, and back to not being able to do anything without Sonic. That Tails vs Chaos video by Mike Darklighter could have been good example of how to do it that. It retains Classic Sonic involvement but puts Tails over as a strong capable character by himself kzbin.info/www/bejne/qnrJmaWZZbiGoKc Now I'm not saying Tails (or anyone else) shouldn't get scared - no courage without fear and all that - as (in SA1) before setting off to stop Eggman he has a moment of worry and panic where he's "aww man, this isn't looking good.... Sonic's not here and if I screw up its game over man!" But then he digs deep, and puts hope and courage into practice, as he puts himself over as the little fox who could. Man I miss old Tails, but I guess at least Tyson Hesse gave him back some credibility with the Mania Adventure shorts, as he helped Sonic fight Eggman and Metal Sonic.

[@tobigrantlbart]

Free Riders didn't kill the franchise single handedly, it killed it no handedly

[@themorrigan1312]

Nobody: Free Riders, about to kill the franchise: look, Ma! No hands!

[@autosaver]

In fairness, it sold rather well for a game that seems low budget and half assed. I wouldn’t be surprised if Microsoft paid them money to develop exclusively too.

[@DanieleMulas-up7np]

@@autosaver Selling 1 million copies means crap, if quality is awful, and when the Kinect essentialy died and failed as a gimmick. Be real....

[@tobigrantlbart]

@General Jiggler Only because it was packed in with the Xbox 360 at one point

[@justinc.5591]

@Daniele Mulas The game was still a financial success, even though it was crap. Even Sonic 06 was a financial success, the only genuine flop in the franchise was Rise of Lyric.

[@rollbustah]

The main problem with Sonic in the 2010's is that Sonic Team and SEGA as a whole are just in a state of constant fear. Fear of using characters. Fear of using gameplay mechanics that have potential because they were in games that have garnered a bad reputation. Fear of upsetting fans. Fear of trying something new and unique. There is no one there anymore who has a vision for the franchise, they just put shit out like mindless zombies. Say what you will about the 2000's Sonic games but goddammit, Yuji Naka and his team always had a concrete vision of what Sonic should be and what they wanted to do and what story they wanted to tell and they did it without worrying what anyone would think. And I have nothing but respect for that.

[@kylecampbell565]

i feel sonic team needs a break and the reigns should go to someone else

[@bbumbs747]

I think another reason is that Sonic means so much different things to different people.Like for example,one person grew up playing Sonic 2 and another grew up with Sonic Adventure,while yet another one grew up with Sonic Generations,if you put them in one room and asked them what they want in a Sonic game these fans would give different answers that have the potential to contradict each other.Sega see these ideas tries to combine them together leading to a mess of a Sonic game. Im not good at explaining

[@deadweight4887]

Silver was supposed to be next powerful Hedgehog, yet after '06 he only appeared for some seconds in Forces and Team Sonic Racing.

[@kylecampbell565]

Deadweight yeah its crazy the only mainstay we got after Silver was Zavok. And I’ve yet to meet a single person who’s a fan of him

[@CarbonRollerCaco]

Roll Buster I get the sense that Adventure 1 was when Naka was starting to lose control of Sonic. Sega had wanted that game to be a general showcase of the Dreamcast’s abilities, and Takashi Iizuka had his own ideas for the series, which led to stuff like Big and Gamma and the upgrade system, stuff that would be hard sells today. Yet Tails and Knuckles still had their old skills (Spin Dash not withstanding), Amy fit in well even though her gameplay was undercooked, and Sonic’s gameplay, shared to varying degrees with Tails, Knuckles and Amy, as well as the story and the overall tone, were largely faithful to the past games. Adventure 2 didn’t need to be a hardware showcase, yet it literally doubled down on Adventure 1’s fluff whether it made sense or not because Hero vs. Dark. And, wouldn’t you know it, Iizuka was in charge again. Also keep in mind that Naka had briefly left Sega after Sonic 1 (not Adventure 1) was done, which suggests that he and Sega were rarely on the best of terms. So Naka might have lost a lot of control of the series going into the 2000s, so that decade may not really be representative of his ideas for the series.

[@Aeiutube]

Finally a vid that has more depth and thought than “Sonic has had a rocky history since the jump to 3D”

[@ChiefMedicPururu]

Especially since J acknowledge that the Adventure games, despite a few things, were an evolution of Sonic's concept instead of doing the same thing over and over like right now.

[@purpledragon1945]

I'll say, that arguement just bothers me

[@gars129]

They say 1 million Boost Era Sonic fans cant be wrong, regardless of critics.

[@sonicmania6753]

gars129 I actually read this as “Boom fans” wtf 😂

[@waifu_png_pl6854]

for me it went as smoothly as a physics based platformer could go in the new 3rd dimension. rocky, but great for the time and something to polish. i guess it depends on the context of the time

[@sebastianbenavidesmorales2274]

the most depressing part is how sonic team literally ruined every single character on the franchise, i feel like they're so afraid of use them like they did during adventure until 06 (with their own storylines and gameplay) and now they have no personality and only exist to be as you said sonic cheerleder team, Tails became a coward, which contradics his adventure storyline, silver, knuckles and shadow don't do anything important since 06, (they should have been playable on forces), they wasted the potential blaze had, and everyone else is just a filler.

[@WaterKirby1994]

It wasn't Sonic Team who ruined them, it was Sega of America who ruined them. Sonic Team just does whatever which Sega that's currently in charge of them says. Sega of Japan started caring more about the Yakuza series, while Sega of America following 06 chose to please the critics instead of actual fans. The Just Sonic Mentality was all Sega of America doing what critics told them, as the IGNorant critics wanted to turn the series into something it never was & started by having Sonic hog the series to himself. Then after getting that the critics realized they could convince Sega of America to turn the Sonic Series into the joke of the gaming industry which is how the 2010s decade started. These people who weren't even fans & wanted to see the Sonic series fail repeatedly had hijacked the series. They thought of Sonic as nothing more than a mere cartoon animal like Mickey Mouse or Bugs Bunny that they could get laughs out of & twisted Sega of America's arm into changing the series to that. These critics knew that Sega of America didn't really understand their own series or why people liked it as Yuji Naka & Sega of Japan were always responsible for the series success. With the former gone to form his own studio & the latter distancing itself from Sonic, the Critics had free reign to terraform. Sega of Japan realizing that Sega of America were making stupid decisions with the Sonic Series in their absense decided to cut funding to them in the hopes it would stop them from ruining the series. Unfortunately it only slowed SoA down, they still treated the series like a joke. The vast majority of the game characters introduced in the 2000s were enjoyable, while the vast majority of game characters introduced in the 2010s decade were awful additions to the series ironically. I can only hope the era of awful characterization has finally ended we need a return to form for the series.

[@regulator062]

Yeah if I had to say one thing that's been more disappointing from Sonic Team this decade than anything else, it would be their portrayal of the characters. Every single character outside of Eggman has been represented horribly. Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, Silver, Amy, even Sonic himself is just annoying now and has no dimensionality to his character. They've botched this terribly and desperately need new writers and direction for not only the characters but also the games' stories in and of themselves. Every single game since 2010 have turned what was a cool, adventurous tale about teamwork, camaraderie and saving the world together into what's now cheesy, decidedly uncool cringefests that are all about Sonic all the time and that almost no fan takes seriously. It's funny how the movie literally represented Sonic, Eggman, and even its side characters better than Sega has in over a decade. You can bet if Sonic Movie 2 happens Tails will have a better character than he's had in almost 20 years now. I'm grateful for the movie but seriously, please get your act together Sonic Team!

[@WaterKirby1994]

​@@regulator062 Sega of America proved they had no understanding of the series by being ok with how Colors portrayed Sonic, yet issuing absurd mandates after that. They aren't ok with Sonic losing, or him getting angry in the comics, yet were ok with him acting out of character for an entire decade. Yakuza was a curse for Sega's other series, as it took all of Sega of Japan's attention away from everything else. They were too busy with Yakuza to save the Sonic Series from SoA's mistakes. Super Monkey Ball series also suffered because of Yakuza taking priority over everything else to SoJ. At least there's a benefit to characters not really being used much this decade. The characters who didn't really see use like Tikal, Chaos, Vanilla, Cream, Gmerl, Eggman Nega, & Marine haven't been ruined. Still it's really unfortunate that Sega of America insisted on characters not being themselves & low quality newer characters being in the series. All we can do is hope the series gets its return to form soon.

[@noventaporcento]

@@WaterKirby1994 :(

[@tayojones9460]

This is why I like the Sonic comics. The comic book are the only thing in the franchise that is consistently good. Good artwork, the cast were well developed, many mature themes were explored and Eggman was an actual threat. It also was not afraid to introduce new characters and most of them were really cool (Scourage the Hedgehog). I wish more people would check out the comics because they are really good and treats Sonic with the respect he deserves.

[@Comkill117]

I’ll be honest, I still would rather play 06 than Boom.

[@raidoukuzonoha883]

06 you can have fun and laugh at it but boom is boring like J said whats worse X6 = Frustration X7 = Boring what makes a game worse is personal preference i find boom worse since its not so bad its funny like 06 but to be fair shadows campaign was the most playable out of 06

[@raidoukuzonoha883]

@@mysteryperson1958 it all caomes down to would you rather be bored playin boom or angry at 06 i mean its pick your poison

[@megasoniczxx]

I'd rather play 06 than both that and forces.

[@flamingoodness4923]

mystery person195 don’t know about that one cheif. The one good thing 06 had over boom was the music. Can you name a single sonic boom song? I don’t think anyone can without looking them up.

[@paulakroy2635]

mystery person195 have you watched a speedrun of 06

[@shadowleon659]

I miss the older Sonic games. Not because of nostalgia, but because atleast they tried to do something creative and innovative.

[@Harrinsain]

I think i have more of an investment in '06 than pretty much any of this decade's releases (barring Mania), because at least '06 has evident ambition. This decade is just a messy scramble to please as many people as possible

[@shadowleon659]

@@Harrinsain I have more of an investment in Shadow the Hedgehog than most of the Sonic games this past decade and its actually one of my favourite Sonic games. Granted, it's not perfect but atleast they tried.

[@saricubra2867]

Sonic 3&K, Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 are good games and had ambition. Good mainline Sonic games died with Shadow and 06, Mania is a good game but fanfiction, the same applies for Generations.

[@shadowleon659]

@@saricubra2867 But Sonic Unleashed is good, especially the PS3/Xbox 360 versions. I think its criminally underrated.

[@saricubra2867]

@@shadowleon659 Sonic Unleashed introduced the boost, nah. I really like the animation and story/presentation but that's all. It doesn't help that it has big issues with framerate.

[@rodrigomorales563]

Man, being a fan of this series can be really painful. Edit: I'm still amazed at how this comment blew.

[@jjc4924]

Yep. That's how toxic these fanbase are. And it's getting an whole lot worst than it should've.

[@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz]

@@jjc4924 what does that have to do with it?

[@jjc4924]

Alexender. The way the fans or fanbase wanted towards Sega just makes it alot harder to make an proper good game. And most of the time, it not usually what they wanted & they get all upset despite there demanding. Whether Sega listened or not. It's also one of the reasons that we never gotten to other Sega games that isn't Sonic. Like Amibo sa Samba or Space Channel 5 or any series from Sega. At least we're getting Bayonetta 3. But we don't know when they're gonna show it off on the trailer.

[@sayer4148]

@@jjc4924 not to mention that a lot of people within the fanbase are at each other's throat when discussing a game or era's quality, especially the current era and Dark Age.

[@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz]

@@jjc4924 well, it's not THAT hard to see what the fanbase wants. it's the same every gamer wants. they keep trying to reinvent the wheel but the basics are always king: tight controls, platforming and speed. make sonic go fast, make air control good, make the platforming forgiving enough to go fast, and you're good. that's all the good sonic games are.

[@Everik-ct6pg]

This is an example of how memes and bad criticism can ruin a series.

[@lynxfresh5214]

Tbh I would rather watch Elise vomiting light down Sonic's mouth to "revive" him than deal with "most" Sonic memes.

[@orangelighting5633]

Bad games dont help either

[@precieux6303]

Nah it's just Sonic Team listening to the wrong people again

[@Z3RO5286]

@@precieux6303 No. It's them who are in charged and don't know or don't even care about sonic. Ilzuka should only stick with game designing for sonic games, He should have retired years ago. It's the current people at sonic team ruining the franchise. Sonic Unleashed is the last great sonic game and is up there with sa2, sa1, sonic heroes.

[@mannycampos6885]

@@Z3RO5286 last great sonic game?

[@sulphurous2656]

It should be noted that Mike Pollock had to audition once more for the role of Eggman after the cast was shuffled. It was THAT close to him being replaced. Whatever force was in charge of audio at SEGA seemed a bit careless when it comes to casting in those times. Just ask Ryan Drummond what that might feel like.

[@spamite3378]

Sulphurous Imagine a world without Mike Pollock as Eggman...well there is but I mean post heroes. And also yeah Sega of Japan is constantly careless when it comes to keeping American voice actors.

[@sulphurous2656]

@Santiago ScarpinoIt seems like the chain of command at SEGA has been in disarray to various degrees ever since Naka and the '06 split. Yet part of me just finds it's bizarre how contradictory their practices has been. Just as things started to look up or become rock solid, it's torn to shreds or thrown down the memory hole. What previous cast? No, never heard of these people. It seems like the people who dedicated themselves to the franchise were just dropped off on the next bus stop.

[@Kuzamer]

True. We almost had Ryan return, dammit😔

[@CarbonRollerCaco]

BakuGOAT Count your stars we didn’t; he would’ve been at Pontac and Graff’s mercy. ::VIOLENT SHUDDER::

[@Kuzamer]

@@CarbonRollerCaco I guess you got a point there... But at least he wouldn't sound as lame as his lines. Lol.

[@MrNrj6490]

“Who knows, Shadow or even Silver could help! itwasclassicsonic” That one hurt

[@androgamerzx389]

Shadow did help actually in the DLC..But that doesn't matter anyway as he plays exactly the same as sonic and no new stages

[@sambridgers9543]

So much wasted potential.

[@artistanthony1007]

@@androgamerzx389 Takes place before the actual game or everything before the Shadow clone showed up, he isn't making any difference.

[@brycebitetti1402]

At this point Sonic has the release schedule of mainline Mario and Zelda games but nowhere near the quality to back that development time up.

[@beta511ee4]

Charles Stiles, Mystery Diners Your opinion, m8.

[@silverthememe1845]

Shush concerns?

[@cooldarkboy]

Honestly

[@kylecampbell565]

Exactly

[@BOLPutube]

Skeeter Mania No he’s absolutely right. I’m a fan of all three franchises he mentioned, but besides for Mania which wasn’t even made by Sonic Team, the past couple installments have been shit

[@adriannaranjo4397]

What's even more tragic about Boom was that apparently the developers wanted to make something ambitious and unique, but kept getting bogged down by the higher ups at Sega. By the time they were done meddling we got Rise of Lyric...

[@floatsyourgoats6200]

They didn't even know they were developing for the Wii U. They were just told to make use of a game engine compatible with "next gen consoles" which they assumed to be PS4 and Xbox One, and then had to downscale that into something that would be able to boot up on a Wii U.

[@WaterKirby1994]

@@floatsyourgoats6200 They made false assumptions that it wouldn't possibly be on Wii U even though the vast majority of Sonic Games have been on Nintendo hardware since Sega went 3rd party. BRB weren't the most competent developers, they didn't even think the most famous console manufacturer would potentially have the game on their 8th Gen Console. The mistake was BRB's alone, they should have actually made sure the game wasn't for Wii U before they started making the game in an engine that Wii U was too weak to play. The equivalent of what they did would be a development team in 2001 assuming there was no way their game could be an exclusive for PlayStation 2 & used an engine that PS2 was too weak to handle assuming they were working with GameCube & Xbox. What they did was no different from saying Hit Me when they had 16 points in BlackJack while assuming there was no way their draw would be more than 5 points. They really gambled by automatically assuming it wouldn't be a game for Nintendo despite Sonic's history with getting exclusive games on their systems.

[@vinnyfromvenus8188]

@@WaterKirby1994 I think the point you're making here is weakened considering the PS2 was the most popular console of its era while the Wii U was anything but that

[@WaterKirby1994]

@@vinnyfromvenus8188 PS2 may have been the most popular of the Gen 6 Consoles, however that's only thanks to the new life breathed into it by Kingdom Hearts. There was a time in 2001/2002 that GameCube & Xbox were taking away most of PS2's popularity. Had Kingdom Hearts not been exclusive to PS2, things would have been much different. Then of course PS2's popularity let it still live even after the time of 6th Gen Consoles had ended. PS2 was running vastly inferior versions of Wii Games for a time only because Kingdom Hearts made it popular despite being the inferior hardware of 6th Gen Consoles. Wii was a lot like PS2 in that it was also the best seller of its generation despite having the weakest hardware. Wii U never caught on because it lacked good games. Had it suddenly got a bunch of excellent games throughout 2014 & 2015, it wouldn't have been a failure. The main problem with Wii U was that it had the least amount of 3rd Party support of any Nintendo System. Then again Gen 8 was the most disappointing Console Generation for its time following Gen 3. Switch alone is more successful than the 3 Gen 8 Consoles combined isn't it? Console Wars have always been complicated.

[@dapperblookanimations226]

They had Chao, some better character designs, knuckles wasn't supposed to be stupid, the plot and characters were forced to be in line with the cartoon which drastically limited the creativity and scale of the game, Metal Sonic and Shadow were forced in last minute, They had an original backstory for Sonic and Eggman specific to that series which was rejected because "we want to be the ones to explore his backstory". So much was ruined, changed for the worst, or scrapped. The world was also filled with so many diverse characters. The concept art was beautiful. The gameplay was deeper with tails being able to fly normally, and knuckles able to dig. The characters had multiple combos and techniques, they had co-op and some multiplayer games too. Sticks... Oh God... she was a badass tribeswoman in concept art, now she's a Kooky conspiracy theorist. At this point if Sega and Sonic team loses the rights to Sonic I don't think I'd be too broken up about it. It'd have to go to a notably awful company or something for me to feel otherwise.

[@astriverofstrengthandknowledge]

I miss the times when Sonic as a whole was more diverse, ambitious, and gave more depth to their characters even when the games didn’t turn out so well. EDIT: 2010s Sonic was a bit like that at first then moved on to either being bland, lazy, or uninspired with the exception of Generations and Mania.

[@kieranstark7213]

Seth White (aka 72.224.115.118) of Love Interest Wiki (where he probably got banned for infinity for slandering me as much as possible in the ways I complained about a post-Dreamcast Era Sonic character outside of the Sonic Boom TV series, let alone Amy Rose) doesn’t one bit. So screw him to hell!!!!!!!!

[@Green-Raccoon777]

@@kieranstark7213 Can you share your opinions on Boom!Amy? I think you and I might be on the same page if your comment is anything to go by.

[@kieranstark7213]

"if your comment is anything to go by." I feel like I should easily know its meaning, but alas, I don't get it.

[@Green-Raccoon777]

@@kieranstark7213 I mean that you implied that you don't like her, and I agree. She's a feminazi steryotype if allowed her own opinion. Almost as if she fails to realize that most of her fans and the person she's pinning for, are MALE.

[@jinkisaragi874]

I almost wan't Sonic team to get a reward for being able to produce only shit games for 10 straight years for a character that ones competed with Mr. Videogames himself.

[@TimG57867]

I feel bad for Sonic Colours. As a fan who largely agrees with all the points in the video, I really do feel Sonic Colours specifically was exactly what the series needed at that time. A nice, isolated, light-hearted, and more streamlined game to give the franchise a breather so it could set itself straight and look to provide the kind of ambitious experiences fans loved the series for but without clutter that might bog the core gameplay down. Sadly, instead of being that nice, harmless little "break" for the series, it instead ended up being the origin of the juvenile and watered down direction the series would take for the next decade after Generations. They basically took all the wrong lessons from Colours success. It wasn't loved for kiddy writing or its stripped down cast. It was loved because it streamlined the series speedy gameplay without too much intrusive clutter which was appreciated at the time it came out. But now games following have taken its tone and other elements way too far and too the series' detriment. Now Sonic Colours is looked at as the precourser to Sonic's current day funk and as someone who has fond memories with it when they were younger, I find that super sad.

[@austinreed7343]

Exactly. It’s also why Forces and IDW get so much praise, not from actual quality, but simply by being exceptions to the rule.

[@atteranenforcer5263]

@@austinreed7343 And by Forces, you mean the comics? Just making sure I got that right...the game was still just as juvenile even in it's 'serious' story...

[@nic2-strangedays]

Sonic colors was my favorite sonic game.

[@TheJadedJames]

It is hard to say "the wrong lessons were learned from Sonic Colors" because Sonic Generations (and Forces sorta) is the only real sequel to it. Sonic Colors was this big refresher for the series than then the rest of the decade was games like Sonic Lost World/Sonic Boom. It isn't quite the Resident Evil 4 scenario, where horror game leaning more action-y almost collapses the horror genre

[@shay_3859]

I don't understand why Sonic colours has to be the scapegoat of the sonic series, for it's budget and console, it is an amazing game. It gets compared to games like unleashed and generations, literal anniversary games, and big budget games to recover from disasters like 06... If Colours had the budget of unleashed, it would easily be the best sonic game. And people always lie about the "cringy writing" or "unfunny jokes". I legit sat through a video that was almost an hour of all dialogue of Sonic colours, and none of it sounded cringy.

[@Prime_Legend]

The funny thing is, these "Dark Age" games sold WAY MORE than these so called "Back to the roots" games claimed by reviewers. Shadow sold 5 million. Secret Rings sold 3 million on the WII. Sonic Unleashed sold 4 million. On the other hand Sonic games barely crack 2 million nowadays, in 2020 where most games break that barrier. What am I trying to say? Sonic back then had more appeal to everybody, even kids. Games like Secret Rings, 06, Shadow may have technical problems but they were extremely appealing, unlike these shitty "badly mcnosehair" and 2D linear blocky design garbage we've gotten for the last 10 years.

[@kylecampbell565]

Prime Legend well that could also be due to the fact Lost World was on Wii U which sold like crap. Forces I should note sold more than Mania last I checked

[@kylecampbell565]

Ryu Bateson given mania sold that poorly the dark age tainting the public’s view may also be a factor

[@MILDMONSTER1234]

That's because those games had soul while the meta era is soulless

[@KnucklesWTD]

Ryu Bateson Mania proved that the “Genesis games are the only good ones” crowd is not the majority of fans and is only a vocal minority.

[@WaterKirby1994]

Those Reviewers/Critics don't know what they are talking about & were hugely responsible for the series downfall in the aftermath of Sonic 06. They convinced Sega of America to believe that the characters were to blame with the Just Sonic mentality. Then they completely hijacked the series by taking advantage of SoA's incompetence & not understanding their flagship series that well. They manipulated everything to change the series into a lame parody of itself & caused Sonic to be the joke of the gaming industry. The actual fans never wanted the 2010s tone for the series & would consider Sonic 06 a return to form for the series if it released this year. That's how bad this Meta Era created by people who wanted the series to fail has been. Sega of Japan chose to focus entirely on Yakuza instead of taking Sonic back into their capable hands. Of course the 4kids Era was better than the 2010s Era for Sonic & we can only hope we get that return to form the series needs.

[@spencerdecker5296]

The Sonic Boom: RoL development story is really sad. The game was conceived with the idea of a large scale story driven adventure on next gen hardware with a serious tone. Unfortunately, due to practically no communication, SEGA didn’t tell BRB about their exclusivity deal with Nintendo. This forced the dev team to rework much of the game to function on the inferior WiiU, having to cut a lot of story content and ideas. Before this, they had to change their original ideas more because the SEGA higher ups demanded it be closer to the main series. Then they had to change their characters and tone because SEGA struck a deal with an animation studio to make an animated comedy show, and decided that it should be paired with the new Sonic game BRB was developing, telling them to make it more lighthearted and childish to fit with the cartoon. The animation studio and BRB had poor communication, and the story driven adventure was drastically changed in a bad way. Due to the porting to inferior hardware, the graphics took a dive. SEGA then pulled their favorite move, and said, “It has to be ready for the holiday release!” This made the dev team have a smaller amount of time to work with, cutting their remaining concepts short and just porting what they had as quickly as possible to the WiiU in order to meet deadlines, dropping the game with next to no quality control. BRB would attempt to patch it and fix the problems, but would be ridiculed by fans for the glitchy mess that wasn’t their fault, but the fault of SEGA. ALL OF THIS BECAUSE HIS ARMS ARE BLUE!

[@WaterKirby1994]

BRB when making the game didn't consider the possibility that the game would be on Nintendo's 8th Gen Console. They automatically assumed they wouldn't have to make it for the significantly inferior hardware. They could have simply looked at the Sonic Series history on Nintendo Systems & noticed almost half the Sonic games released between 2001 & 2012 were Nintendo Exclusive. BRB lacked the common sense to ask if they had to worry about it being for Wii U so they were to blame for that issue, even if Sega of America was every bit as incompetent as they were. Still Sega of America royally screwed them over with the animation studio deal. The same way Sega of America screwed up the entire Sonic series during the 2010s decade. If Sega of Japan wasn't so preoccupied with Yakuza they could have prevented Sonic's worst decade from happening. Sega of America has proven time & again that they don't understand the Sonic Series without Yuji Naka explaining it to them & unfortunately he left during the production of 06 to form his own studio. You forget that Sega doesn't have the structure of a typical company & Sega of Japan had almost nothing to do with Sonic for the past decade. Sega of Japan's only actions with Sonic the past decade were to cut the series funding in response to the dumb decisions SoA made for the series & localizing it for Japan. They didn't want SoA screwing over the Sonic Series, although they didn't want the responsibility of managing what was now their problem child while they were busy with Yakuza. Sonic desperately needed quality control from Sega of Japan because of SoA's incompetence throughout the entire 2010s decade. At least Mania Team were able to release a quality Sonic Game.

[@ketrub]

BTW, the porting situation was so bad that SEGA had to get both Nintendo and Crytek (Boom runs on CryEngine, same as the Crysis games) involved in the porting process. A lot of the assets had to be remade in the process, along with most of the level design, to hit a holiday 2014 release date. If the game was released, as originally intended, on PC and later ported to PS4/X1, the game would have released in early 2014. Trying to port a then next-gen game to last-gen hardware ended up taking more time than they had to work on the game itself.

[@WaterKirby1994]

@@ketrub Wii U was an 8th Gen Console with comparable hardware capabilities to Sony & Microsoft's 7th Gen consoles. BRB really screwed up by not making the game Wii U compatible from the start. Your story makes me question how difficult it was to port Wii Games onto PS2 considering how PS2 had the weakest hardware of the 4 Gen6 Consoles, while Wii was supposed to have higher lever hardware than GameCube.

[@ketrub]

@@WaterKirby1994 Sonic Boom was pitched to Sega as a PC only game with a port after it released. I guess they were trying to push the envelope but got caught up in SEGA's contractual obligations they did not learn about thanks to SEGA's horrible communication.

[@BlueBlur24]

@@WaterKirby1994 How the hell were BRB supposed to know that the game was to be developed on the Wii U on their own? SEGA themselves are to blame for their shit communication and not specifying anything. If you were to say that BRB should have asked SEGA what console Boom was gonna be on, then it would be more valid. But you're playing the both sides fallacy by giving BRB a percentage of the blame because they did not "assume" the unthinkable.

[@Ashachi]

The franchise went to teamwork and being cool to all about sonic and cheesy bad comedy. Honestly Sonic adventure and Heroes should be the inspiration for the 30th 3D anniversary game, With generations gameplay possibly. And for a possible 2D 30th anniversary game, Well the mania team can't possibly fuck this up with all the greatness they have achieved.

[@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz]

I still don't understand why the hell they scrapped everything that heroes was. the asthetic was perfect, the music was perfect, the team mechanic is the best thing they've ever come up with. seriously how the fuck did that shadow game get made? HOW?

[@Ashachi]

@@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz I honestly dont have a problem with the shadow game, But if 06 was finished, didnt have any cut content and was released on PC too, we would have had something better than heroes.

[@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz]

@@Ashachi that's a pretty big IF though XD

[@felipe_drawmania1604]

@@Ashachi And also was given a longer development time.It's very clear they didn't had NEARLY as much time they needed for their vision.

[@felipe_drawmania1604]

For Mania,more original stages.

[@KingdomHeartsBrawler]

You know, I just find it so hilarious... everyone talks about how certain Sonic games are "too dark" or "too edgy" for a series starring a "cartoon" hedgehog, and yet the Mario RPGs are WAY darker than anything Sonic has put out. Even Shadow the Hedgehog is a jolly romp next to the likes of Super Paper Mario or Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time. Shadow using guns is way too hardcore, apparently, but Mario and co. being sent to HELL while nightmarish music with demonic garbled voices plays is just fine.

[@superhedgehog6447]

Wow Bruh.....your right

[@zorakthelonemantisoftheapo5680]

Say about double standards

[@nman551]

Completely correct

[@James-oj6ru]

I mean…. Mario galaxy literally has the concept of the Big Bang and explores the concept of the heat death of the sun so… It’s kinda funny how they constantly try to censored the concept though, super paper Mario is the darkest one both exploring the concept of hell and heaven, the whole coping mechanism of letting go your daughter to go on their own path… even if it results in less favorable results, _questionable fans and internet users_ (that goddamn lizard) and the scary concept of fate…. Ok, so I started to notice how recent Mario game has decided to tone it down quite significantly

[@austinreed7343]

Archie comics make up for that.

[@ThatBoyJackaboy]

I used to describe the Sonic franchise as "Unlimited untapped potential." Now I describe it as "One step forward, two steps back."

[@RadiShineAmigo]

Jackaboy “Got a hundred thousand pounds sitting on my back”

[@ZoZo-fh6tq]

now sonic mania went 100 steps forward 0 steps back

[@LiveHedgehog]

@@ZoZo-fh6tq It didn't go any steps forward or back. It's a fantastic game, but it hasn't taken the series anywhere at all. It's a game as good as Sonic 3 & Knuckles, just 23 years later. Sonic hasn't tried to evolve since Unleashed.

[@precieux6303]

@@ZoZo-fh6tq Mania wasn't really innovative or anything at all tho. It just felt like the old games but with different levels..

[@DemonDethchase]

I feel that's the story of Tails as a playable character in 3D. Adventure 1: They land gold first time, as he can run and fly like he could in 2D. Adventure 2: He's confined to the mech walker the whole game, meaning he can't stretch his legs to run or fly at all in any of his stages... besides the Chao garden, but that's no good to man nor beast Heroes: While the mech maybe in the garage, he's now lumbered with Sonic and Knuckles in a state of constant flight, unable to get his feet on the ground and run freely like Sonic and Knuckles... What you doing Sega? Sonic 06: He's out of the mech and there's no extra characters to carry! Could this be the return to form we've all been waiting for...? No, as he has none of his SA1 moveset, replacing it instead with ring box bombs, and his running speed has been nerfed into the ground. So much so that even Knuckles is (slightly) faster than him... Dammit Sega why can't you just stick to what works!? Next time you him back as a playable character, Sega, like SA1, let Tails run (and fly) wild and free. Because, as the old saying goes: let Tails run (and fly) wild and free! And character/story wise make him the little fox who could again like from the Adventure days!

[@TabbyAbby]

The movie wasn't perfect but my God was it a fun and heartfelt ride. The fact that the writers of that movie actually gave Sonic a range of emotions and actual character development (as well as a MUCH better voice actor/voice direction) more so then the games in the 2010's have is both tragic and amazing. I'll admit, I liked the games from this decade at first but after a while and especially after watching Jeb and J's videos on the subject, I realized that yeah, this decade was just bland and played it WAY too safe. A lot of people are saying that the Sonic Movie might just change Sonic as a whole considering its big impact, and honestly I hope the're right. The movie at least knew how to balance comedy and heartfelt moments, sure some instances felt a bit rushed or strange but it wasn't nearly as bad as it is in the games currently. Idk what to expect in the 30th anniversary game, but considering its been yet ANOTHER 3 or 4 year gap since the last game, I'm not so sure anymore, I can only hope that they've learned from all this and the movie. Also, SEGA/Sonic Team? STOP ADVERTISING YOUR GAMES WITH ARIN HANSEN. The guy literally hates EVERYTHING about the franchise, he's said so millions of times at this point, stop taking feedback from people who are blatantly not fans of your product, that's like getting Plankton to advertise for the Krusty Krab -_-

[@Merdicano]

I literally had so much fun with the movie, I really hope the sequel comes out

[@quangamershyguyyz7166]

Nobody1473 He’d probably be too expensive.

[@gama103]

@@quangamershyguyyz7166 But it'd be worth it. I never liked Roger ever since he became the voice in 2010 and i already prefer Ben Shwartz over him

[@hwanniggles187]

@Nobody1473 Honestly. There were times where he sounded like Ryan Drummond and it was beautiful

[@ADragonNerd]

@@hwanniggles187 yeah he does sound very close to Ryan Drummond. Which is why I wish Ben was Sonic's current voice too

[@Sjono]

Another topic to talk about is how Sonic Team used to put out a lot of non-Sonic games over the years. Now aside from Puyo Puyo they almost entirely focus on Sonic titles, and they can’t even consistently deliver on that front

[@jimmybob5541]

Exactly. They've just casually killed off all their others IPs except for sonic, and since they can't even make a good sonic game, I see nowhere for Sega to go from here honestly

[@TurboPikachu]

What kills me is that Sega used to be an absolute *titan* of making relevant, quality IPs. They stood head-and-shoulders above the likes of Capcom, Konami, Hudson Soft, Ubisoft, EA, Activision, THQ, and all of Microsoft's 1st-parties and 2nd-parties combined - Hell, they even edge out Sony when assessing their rich history. They were second only to Nintendo when it came to brainstorming brilliant new game series, the two of them competing with each other effectively steamrolled the already poorly-managed Atari who couldn't get a single system-seller for any of their final few consoles to fight off Nintendo's Mario, Zelda, F-Zero, Metroid, Kirby, Star Fox, Fire Emblem (jp) etc - or Sega's Sonic, Golden Axe, Altered Beast, Outrun, Vectorman, Ecco, Ristar, Tempo, Phantasy Star, etc. With the Saturn and Dreamcast, and even the early years of multiplat, Sega was still absolutely awe-inspiring in how many beloved IPs they were making left, right, and center - Virtua Racer, Virtua Fighter/Fighting Vipers, Virtua Tennis, Virtua Cop, House of the Dead, NiGHTS into Dreams, Daytona USA, Burning Rangers, Shenmue, Space Channel 5, Jet Set Radio, Chu Chu Rocket, Crazy Taxi, Skies of Arcadia, Super Monkey Ball, Billy Hatcher, Yakuza, and right up to their last major new IP with 2008's Valkyria Chronicles. As of this moment, only Sonic, Yakuza, Valkyria, and Puyo Puyo have had major releases in the past 5 years. New entries in series like Streets of Rage and Shenmue are now divorced of Sega completely. Super Monkey Ball's first new entry in 7 years is a port of the series' 2006 Wii launch title. The absolute state of Sega in the 2010s is the *exact* fate I feared when they announced their departure from the console industry... They promised that doing so freed up much more resources to make games, and while that appeared to be true throughout the early 2000s, they fell apart on multiple fronts after Sonic 06 bombed, and ever since 2013 it's become painfully clear that trimming fat as a corporation is Sega's MO - They allowed Sonic Forces to be developed while Sonic Team had just 2 level designers remaining who had no Sonic game development experience prior to Lost World as the company rode off the success of the fan-developed Mania for a year and a half. It makes me ill to see Sega like this, because Nintendo can keep more than just Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon alive - franchises like Animal Crossing and Fire Emblem are better than ever, and Metroid recently returned on the 3DS with a huge new flagship title set to drop this generation; Nintendo also revived dead IPs of theirs like the simple 2D platformer Kid Icarus and turned it into an ambitious 3rd-person shooter adventure, and has come up with a handful of new IPs in the 2010s such as Pushmo, Dillon's Rolling Western, Tomodachi Life/Miitopia, Splatoon, and Arms - even in 2019 Nintendo sneaked a small new IP into the Nintendo Switch with The Stretchers (Edit 3/27/2020 - Nintendo just released yet another small IP with "Good Job!"). Meanwhile, Sega hasn't developed a new IP in 12 years and let their countless others fade into a distant memory; the last new "IP" they even published was Xeen's one-off 3DS title Rhythym Thief, back in 2012.

[@naturalace5375]

TurboPikachuX Persona is another Sega IP that is also relevant today. I know it’s purely Atlus' but Atlus is owned by Sega.

[@TurboPikachu]

@@naturalace5375 That's true, but Sega (unless proven otherwise) isn't contributing to Atlus. I say this because they only served as an advisor for PlatinumGames to develop Bayonetta and Bayonetta 2, but PG couldn't afford to finish development on Bayonetta 2, and that opened Nintendo up to take them in and fund and publish Bayonetta 2, with further contribution to allow PG to develop Bayonetta 3.

[@naturalace5375]

TurboPikachuX Speaking of Bayonetta 2 and Bayonetta, why the fuck are there outsourced Sega games? There are two Wonder Boy games: Wonder Boy: The Dragon's Trap remake and Monster Boy and the Curse Kingdom. Streets of Rage 4, Shenmue 3, Space Channel 5 VR: Kinda Funky News Flash, the Panzer Dragoon remakes, Toejam & Earl: Back in the Groove, Resonance of Fate 4K remaster. NONE of those games are published by Sega, let alone have involvement with them. Sega clearly does not caress their IPS like Nintendo. All they give a shit about is Sonic, Yakuza, Puyo Puyo, and Hatsune Miku.

[@Koko-cy4ff]

I am SO GLAD people have started talking about this recently. Everyone was so high on Sonic Mania's quality as a game that most didn't think of the state of the series as a whole. Why is this better than the so called dark age? In my honest opinion the series has never been in a worse state, maybe except when 06 was fresh on store shelves.

[@kieranstark7213]

Sonic Mania is a Sonic the Hedgehog game I like a lot, but because it’s just one video game, I am open-minded enough to see the MANY mixed-at-best/torturous-at-worst Sonic games/Archie series made in the 2010s are exactly why it couldn’t even nearly save the franchise’s state. So far, the current decade afterwards did start off the franchise passably with the Sonic movie (not my own, but the one by the director of a currently amazing franchise like The Fast and the Furious despite what Twihards like Lindsay Ellis say about it to make it look like it’s not superior by any means by treating it like something just for teenage boys to go macho over in “Dear Stephenie Meyer (I’m Sorry)”.

[@ChiefMedicPururu]

To me, Mania didn't help at all. Good game, but bad message.

[@Koko-cy4ff]

@@ChiefMedicPururu I'd say wonderful game but terrible message even. In a way the franchise didn't deserve something like Mania, not yet. Everyone thinks everything is hunky-dory after that game, which in turn lets things get even more out of hand.

[@Idazmi7]

@@Koko-cy4ff You fear Sonic Mania because it's message scares you, and it scares you because you read the message wrong. Sonic isn't better in 2D because he sucks in 3D... that's proven wrong by Sonic 4. He's better in 2D _because the 2D games were better made._ Sonic Mania - unlike Sonic 4, Sonic Generations, and all the Green Hill/Chemical Plant reuse - was an *_actual_* classic Sonic title. No strings attached. That means no cheap gimmicks. No Chao garden. No fishing mini-games. No overwhelming edginess. No cringe-inducing dialogue. No convoluted attempts at "plot". No slow characters. No trying to appease Mario fanboys. No pathetic half-attempts at ripping off Sonic SatAM. No "homing attack" or "boost gameplay" (which were both just shortcuts for bad game design anyway). They need to make a 3D Sonic game, that is classic Sonic, no strings attached. Then Sonic will succeed again.

[@Koko-cy4ff]

@@Idazmi7 First of all, Sonic Mania is my favorite game of all time, I don't "fear" it. I've played it to competion more times than my Maths Professor could count. Secondly, guess what, people miss the Chao Garden, the attempts at an actual plot and Sonic's friends as fleshed out characters. Do you seriously expect me and other long-time fans to stay fans of this series without ANY world building after all these years? The boost gameplay is awesome, sorry that it isn't your cup of tea, but people really like it when it's done well. See Unleashed and Generations (Colors maybe). You're also the first person I've heard not liking the homing attack. Sonic Mania is my favorite game of all time, followed right up by Sonic 3 & Knuckles, but not because they're "Classic" Sonic games, but because they're just quality games, one of which tried a lot of new things. I actually have fond memories of the games in the series that were pretty bad, objectively speaking, but that's because they tried new things and sticked out. I'll always remember what Shadow the Hedgehog tried to do, it's awesome vocal tracks and it being a conclusion to Shadow's arc in general, albeit a sloppy game. The good 3D Sonic games leave an even longer lasting impression on me. What will Lost World and Forces leave in the franchise's legacy? Nothing. The situation would absolutely be the same for Mania if it didn't have the fortune of having such talented devs and yet they were still held back by being basically forced to pander for nostalgia. People want Sonic to be more than the "haha funny fast boi from that one meme" or the absolute cardboard box that Classic Sonic is. SEGA is doing nothing with the series because of criticism like yours, they're afraid to do anything but the one thing that sticked to the wall that one time in Generations.

[@TurboPikachu]

Forces has done more damage to my perception of the series than Shadow the Hedgehog or Sonic 06 did. I went from joking about the bad games like Shadow, 06, Lost World, and Boom, to outright just wanting the series to die because of Forces. With Forces, I see zero willingness on Sonic Team’s part to ever attempt a big ambitious title like Unleashed or Generations ever again, and I really don’t want to see them ever make a game so spineless and uneventful as Forces again - but with their evidently dwindling talent pool (2 measly level designers from Lost World for Forces) they very likely will... and then I’m just gonna end up hating the series for the rest of my life. At least Lost World, while bad, showed the series had a little bit of vision and challenge left in it. Forces is an uninspired boost game that’s FAR more watered down in gameplay breadth and animation quality than even Sonic Colors 7 years prior on the Wii’s 2001-era graphics hardware, is far easier than a Kirby game, and is far shorter than the classic titles from the genesis era. All that put together, for a 2017 PC/PS4/XB1/Switch title 4 years after the previous Sonic Team title, is PATHETIC. Forces did to Sonic what even Sword/Shield couldn’t do to Pokemon: make me *DESPISE* one of the most important franchises of my childhood/adolescence.

[@jjwilliams410]

I pretty sure we can all agree on that. Myself included.

[@_Tzer]

Shadows lost music is emotional Shadow had a character he doesnt anymore.

[@dapperfan44]

Lost World wasn't bad, people just sucked at playing it so they called it bad. Boost was getting stale and Lost World took a risk, and it worked.

[@TurboPikachu]

@@dapperfan44 Lost World was one of the easier Sonic games for me. It was definitely harder than Colors and *way* harder than Forces. But it was still easier than the likes of Adventure/Adventure2/Heroes and Unleashed/Generations. Yet, I still think Lost World wasn't particularly good, like, at all. In fact, I hold it responsible for Forces being as horrible as it is, because Forces' gameplay was built off Lost World's run/jump physics, all the way down to Lost World's Super Sonic Boost being copy/pasted onto normal Sonic/Shadow in Forces.

[@dapperfan44]

@@TurboPikachu I kind of agree, I know I have all the red star rings but I don't think I did all the time trials. Generations was the easiest to me. I define 100% completion for the classic era as getting all the Chaos emeralds. But Generations was the first modern game I got 100% on (all S Rank, and a Platinum trophy), Heroes being the second. Heroes was tough to A-Rank. If that's what happened then that explains a few things about the physics in Forces, but I never understood why people hated so much on Lost World because I loved it from start to finish. It was also the main reason I shelled out for the Mario Kart 8 Wii U* bundle, knowing it was only going to be a Nintendo game at the time. Whatever other people were saying was so bad about it, I didn't see it. *I never owned the first Wii. Edit: I'm tripping, I forgot how easy Forces is. I could get hit and still get an S-Rank in that game.

[@ZobirisMage]

The 2010's was my least favorite decade of Sonic. Period. Maybe it's because I was born in 2001, but nothing in this series have ever disillusioned me from it until the release of Sonic Forces. For once, I flat out refused to purchase a game from my favorite series; the series I liked so much that I was literally bullied for it. Other than 2 main series games, nothing from Sonic Team was anything better than mediocre and I worry for the future of the franchise. Hopefully this next decade will fare much better for the blue blur.

[@Blueflag04]

You didnt buy Transformed?

[@ZobirisMage]

@@Blueflag04 I did and it was sick! I just wanted more quality from the main series Sonic Team games.

[@GordieKat]

I grew up playing the classics and I agree. Forces was the breaking point for me to stop defending them as well. I have high hopes for the future of sonic but low expectations because there is just no excuse for Forces.

[@WaterKirby1994]

The entire 2010s decade for Sonic was mediocre at best with the exception of Mania. Colors was bad, although back in 2010 we assumed it was a 1 time thing. Generations had no real ambition with Just 2 Sonics being playable for 9 Zones with 7 Bosses existing for the PC & Console Version, while 3DS offered 6 additional zones & 3 more bosses which were all forced into 2D. There was no balance in level variety for the main game of Generations & the only reason the game is popular is because of its awesome modding community. Sonic Lost Cause introduced 6 Villains who probably shouldn't even exist in the Sonic Series & was the start of Sonic's failures on 8th Gen Consoles. I became a fan of the series at the start of the 2000s decade through the Adventure Games which I eventually got for myself on GameCube. Sonic was never supposed to be the way it was portrayed in the 2010s & it only came to that because Sega of America knows nothing about the series & cares more about pleasing dumb critics than actual longterm fans. Ken Penders may also be part of why Sega of America is afraid to actually have quality stories in Sonic Games & why we didn't see Emerl or Gmerl in Generations. Sonic Forces was exactly as advertised fusing everything bad about Sonic Colors with Classic Sonic stuff thrown in & more failed attempts to cash in on nostalgia. Sonic Adventure & its sequel knew how to effectively use nostalgia without it taking over. Most of the Mystic Ruins stages were throwbacks to past games with Ice Cap being the best example. Sand Hill was Sandopolis, Red Mountain's interior was Lava Reef fused with Red Volcano Zone from Sonic Blast, & there were plans for Mushroom Hill in Adventure. Sky Chase was a nod to Sonic 2's level of the same name, while the Egg Carrier itself was a callback to the airships of the Classic games & some of the music from 3D Blast on Genesis got reused. Sonic Adventure 2 had Green Hill Zone as a 100% completion reward & the Space Colony Ark being a nod to the Death Egg. The Pyramid in the Hero Story was another call back to Sandopolis Zone with both Ghosts & another Egg Golem being fought within. Sonic Heroes, Shadow the Hedgehog, & Sonic 06 were also good at using nostalgia similarly. Heroes brought back Team Chaotix who only oldschool fans would have remembered, & had its 14 stages structured like 7 2 Act Zones each followed by a boss. Shadow the Hedgehog was treated as a continuation of Adventure 2 remixing some of its music & even including ideas thought of for that game that went unused. Cryptic Castle was based on Hang Castle from Heroes, & there was a stage based on 3K's Carnival Night Zone as well in Shadow's Game, the latter of which is famous for a line taking place before it. Sonic 06 had a lot of nostalgia to Sonic Adventure that went wasted because of Xbox & Sony players never getting it prior to 2010, & GameCube not getting 06. Ironically 06 being on 2 GameCube Discs & taking the console to the limits of its abilities would have resulted in a much better experience than what PS3 & Xbox 360 players got.

[@ZobirisMage]

@@WaterKirby1994 While I think that Generations and Colors are solid games, I definitely agree with you on how Generations didn't have too much ambition. There's so many interesting things it could've done but the game ends far to quickly to ever reach its full potential. The biggest missed opportunity for me is that Generations 3DS could've incorporated levels from more of (or better yet, exclusively from) the handheld titles (especially Music Plant from Advanced 2, I would've loved to see it come back).

[@SuperSonic68]

The Meta Era of Sonic also gave rise to desperation within the fandom. We wanted to play the Sonic games that we saw in our minds, so... We cracked open Unity, or Unreal and we made them happen! We ended up with a lot of great 3D Sonic prototypes and games made by fans during this time.

[@SHESTAGOOEYFROMOPIUS]

you mean just slap sonic down a empty generic stock unity map or green hill zone? ideas that seem interesting but never fleshed out? Fanfare being canned 1 month after development? Thousands of engines but no actual result? pretentious scumbag Devs? Fuck no! Y'all claim to be talented but fnaf's community absolutely takes a massive dump, a shit on your fucking face.

[@SteveCrafts2k]

@@SHESTAGOOEYFROMOPIUS check out Project Hero, or Sonic 2020: Episode White Jungle

[@tiruliru1189]

@@SHESTAGOOEYFROMOPIUS *Sonic Time Twisted wants to know your location.*

[@BiriBiri925]

@@SHESTAGOOEYFROMOPIUS Sonic Omens looks and sounds better than anything Sega has done in the last 15 years. The gameplay in Sonic P-06 is better and more complex than anything Sega has done since SA2.

[@mythosinfinite6736]

@@SHESTAGOOEYFROMOPIUS Local small child takes the opportunity to somehow shoehorn fnaf into a Sonic homebrew discussion

[@ghostyroasty5564]

It's like whatever the main sonic team doesn't work on is a success The movie: success The comics: interesting Mania: success Everything else: failure

[@Blueflag04]

Racing spinoff - Success

[@iug5672]

The fighting game also looks pretty cool, tho I never played it.

[@DiskusGames]

B O O M

[@ghostyroasty5564]

@@DiskusGames the game or the series?

[@DiskusGames]

@@ghostyroasty5564 The theme song

[@RevolverVash]

They ruined my boy Knuckles

[@rainbowblade2815]

Kobalt_ how exactly?

[@TailsGaming1999]

Kobalt_ I think how he was in X wasn’t bad. They give a legitimate reason as to why he believes eggman in that he’s a good guy and that he believes in chances

[@_Tzer]

And knuckles OH NO

[@francisariwaodo318]

@@TailsGaming1999 I mean, I've always kinda hated Knuckles how he was written in the games. He really does get fooled by Eggman over and over again, and holds literally no significance in any plot otherwise. Even in games where he is playable, like SA2 and 06, he has nothing to do with the plot because his entire character, since his introduction, has been "the guy who gets fooled by Eggman".

[@xboxed720]

DO U KNOW DE WAE

[@DemonDethchase]

To think Sonic 06 is the last time pretty much everyone - who wasn't Sonic - got a look in as playable characters in mainline 3D games, as ever since Unleashed in 08 it's been Sonic or bust, save for the OC of Forces and the outsourced Boom. I know you sight Tails being "playable" in Sonic 4, but you can't really play as him in single player so was he really? What could have been cool is to add some sort of tag team mechanic like Mania's encore mode, or Donkey Kong Country games. Also that double team spin dash seems pretty cool, and I wouldn't mind seeing it comeback for the next 2D game from Evening Star (Christian Whitehead's new dev team) as wasn't the Drop Dash not a dropped idea (no pun intended) from the prototype of Sonic 3? But yea, come on Sega, bring back the other characters, and don't be afraid to shoot for a tone closer to the Adventure series again... And like SA1, let Tails run (and fly) wild and free. Because, as the old saying goes: let Tails run (and fly) wild and free.

[@BlackHatOnline]

I mean u can play as tails in Sonic 2 in singleplayer mode if ur curious about trying tails. I tried it by switching the player switch with my AtGames Genesis controller and I was like O_O

[@symphomaniac]

Forces had Shadow too at least

[@precieux6303]

I'm hoping for a game like Project Hero. Good physics, Tails and Knuckles playing EXACTLY how they're supposed to in 3D

[@DemonDethchase]

@@precieux6303 Project Hero is the gold standard. I'm hoping for either A. the people making it manage to put together a game on their own or... B. Sega pull another Mania with Christian Whitehead and Co., but in 3D. Seeing they've got a good thing here they bring them on-board to make a game. Even if it is just another indy type game like Mania.

[@DemonDethchase]

@@precieux6303 I feel as well the story of Tails from SA1 to Sonic 06 can be best summed up as one step forward, two steps back Adventure 1: They land gold first time, as he can run and fly like he could in 2D. Adventure 2: He's confined to the mech walker the whole game, meaning he can't stretch his legs to run or fly at all in any of his stages... besides the Chao garden, but that's no good to man nor beast Heroes: While the mech maybe in the garage he's now lumbered with Sonic and Knuckles in a state of constant flight, unable to get his feet on the ground and run freely like Sonic and Knuckles... What you doing Sega? Sonic 06: He's out of the mech and there's no extra characters to carry! Could this be the return to form we've all been waiting for...? No, as he has none of his SA1 moveset, replacing it instead with ring box bombs, and his running speed has been nerfed into the ground. So much so that even Knuckles is (slightly) faster than him... Dammit Sega why can't you just stick to what works!? Next time you him back as a playable character as I said before, Sega, like SA1, let Tails run (and fly) wild and free. Because, as the old saying goes: let Tails run (and fly) wild and free! And character/story wise make him the little fox who could again like from the Adventure days!

[@FusionArmorX]

The 2010s are basically why you shouldn't trust Sega as a developer anymore, at least when it comes to things related to Sonic. They refuse to look back on their previous works and ask what people liked about them, instead just focusing on moving forward and largely ignoring whatever obstacles they encounter. You know, the modern boost formula of game development.

[@mjc0961]

"They refuse to look back on their previous works and ask what people liked about them" Oh they look back and they ask, but they have the wrong answers. "Oh everyone likes Green Hill Zone, Chemical Plant Zone, and Death Egg robots! Put them *_EVERYWHERE!!!"_* ...No, SEGA. No.

[@donathan2933]

FusionArmorX plus Sega focuses too much on dumbass critics instead of their own fans opinions

[@icee1683]

After Generations (which was the last great sonic game) sega forgot how to walk

[@donathan2933]

@@icee1683 true

[@BiriBiri925]

In fact, this is not the case. Everything is exactly the opposite. Precisely because in 2008 the so-called "game journalists" unanimously said "we like the daily levels! And we like the 2D segments, we want more of this!" we ended up here. Precisely because Sega listened to them. Because of this, we got one boost shit game after another.

[@deanmoriarty6015]

the characterization in every 2010 game is bad, but god damn i cannot stress how terrible Lost World and Forces are. they continue to nerf Sonic to the point where he for some reason needs some.. random animal with a grappling hook to save him? what? the fastest thing alive that can take out an entire Eggman armada in space in seconds can’t break out of a prison and needs some random animal with a grappling hook to break him out? they can’t even make the characters LOOK interesting anymore. the renders in every game after Unleashed are straight DISGUSTING. plastic, dull, expressionless characters who’s eyes and mouths stay exactly the same all the time and occasionally lifting their arms up like they’re characters in Family Guy. it’s to the point where whenever a leak comes out about an alleged new Sonic game, and the renders look good and full of life, it’s an obvious fake.

[@donathan2933]

Honestly Sonic Lost World was decent, but Forces was an absolute letdown, gave everyone a false sense of hope

[@donathan2933]

Michele Casti y’all hate on that game too much. I didn’t have much problems with it, besides the slower gameplay

[@donathan2933]

Michele Casti the way described it before was more of a “I only like this one thing about the game and everything else sucks”

[@donathan2933]

Michele Casti you’re right about Sonic being a jackass. Idiot puts his friends and entire planet in danger yet he still has the guts to act like an annoying prick

[@deanmoriarty6015]

Michele Casti i agree with you about the core controls. moves like the spindash and bounce bracelet were long overdue and deserve to be mainstays in the series as part of sonic’s move set but the run button and the overall way he turns and controls feels atrocious. ridiculously sharp and stuttery

[@alainwolf146]

I miss the 2000s era/Dark Age. I liked the experiments that era tried to do (whether it succeeded or not).

[@donathan2933]

Alain Wolf I agree the Dark age was willing to change things up regardless of how much praise or hate it gets

[@BitchChill]

I go by what gets good. Which the dark age wasn't

[@schemar17]

@@BitchChill shut up

[@okagron]

Imagine wanting for one of the worst eras in Sonic to come back. Just how pathetic the fans can get? Honestly, the 3D era fans at this point are flat out worse than the Genesis fans because at least the latter doesn't ask for BAD games that nearly killed the franchise to return. Also, there was nothing ambitious about Shadow the Hedgehog or Sonic 06. They are worse versions of games that came before.

[@schemar17]

@@okagron at least they were trying and we had a sonic game each year unlike now where we barely get anything

[@fizzyfuzz5878]

The scripts really went downhill in the 2010s. Lotta cringe

[@donathan2933]

I know. I felt like tearing off my ears hearing Amy’s Minnie Mouse ass voice

[@lynxfresh5214]

Unfortunately the franchise relies on jokes, memes, poor fanservice and music to carry it without needing to actually develop characters (the music can stay but everything else needs to be toned down).

[@donathan2933]

Lynx Fresh plus fans are one of the main reasons why Sega is struggling today. The fanbase is full insane, twisted motherfuckers!

[@jam9852]

Its because sega hired the writers of happy tree friends to write the modern sonic stories which i dont understand how and why as the new writers even admitted they didn't even Know what sonic is or care about the franchise.

[@donathan2933]

Micah Thompson Idk. But the fanbase needs to go, permanently

[@chaospikes]

All i've got to say after watching the video is Sega, don't DARE to fuck up the 20s, the 2010s literally ended with the entire internet shitting on Sonic and the fact that the Sonic movie was a huge success is a goddamn miracle

[@Fonz128]

It’s hard for me to put faith in SEGA after the overwhelming Sonic Forces. I hope they don’t fuck up the 20s. I’ll admit it. I’m a bad gamer. I bought Sonic Forces and I bought Super Monkey ball banana blitz HD. I even bought a bad Valkyrie game. Valkyrie revolution sucked too. I bought and played a lot of bad SEGA games :(.

[@glitchedoom]

It's 2022 and after Frontier's reveal, things aren't, uh, looking good.

[@thefastcommenter7774]

@@glitchedoom wdym

[@Harrinsain]

I think "Meta Era" is the perfect name for this decade. Sonic Team never really seemed to have any ideas of their own, but rather they tried as hard as they can to listen to the most recent complaints from everyone who wanted drastically different things. This eventually culminated in Forces, an attempt to please everyone, and in doing exactly that, didn't develop any of its ideas enough to please anyone. This whole decade was overrun with excessive outside influence; a focus on the meta of the franchise rather than the product itself. I have my preferences, but I straight up do not give a damn what direction the series takes going forward anymore, as long as its entries have a strong direction and end up as products I can say are well made. Sonic Team needs to stop listening to what people WANT and focus on what will make the best product

[@SteveCrafts2k]

Yeah, let's dub this the Meta Era.

[@Green-Raccoon777]

To paraphrase Nicolo Machiavelli: "There are three groups in society. The nobles, the military, and the people. All of which have their own goals and desires. As a ruler, you must choose who to please, and who to ignore, for if you set out to appease to everyone, you will find yourself appeasing nobody."

[@Merdicano]

@@Green-Raccoon777 And in that case, where do we stand?

[@Merdicano]

I agree completely, also, say what you want about the movie but it was a huge highlight because of the fact that the studio LISTENED to their fans in fixing design, and look how that positively influenced the final product of the movie; I wouldn't say that Sega should do what Paramount did in listening to the fans because it's a whole different scenario, but what they should do is look at the success of the movie and re-earn their confidence in making the best product as you said

[@Green-Raccoon777]

@@Merdicano I'd say we're "The People" while Sega's employees and subsidiaries are "The Military", and the shareholders, sovial media junkies, and Non-Fans are "The Nobles"

[@silverthememe1845]

It feels like everyone besides Sega and Sonic Team cares anymore. The success of the movie is evidence enough that yes, people do care for this franchise! And while the comics aren't as successful, they at the very least have some very good writing and good characters. (And isn't a clusterfuck of unnecessary characters like the last comic series)

[@superhedgehog6447]

HEY THE ARCHIE SONIC COMIC ARE GOOD!!! The writing for the most part and the way they portray the characters is better than In IDW in my opinion.

[@sayer4148]

I'm biased towards Archie because of Worlds Collide.

[@seacliff217]

The time between 2006 and Generations was only five years, and still had a number of great games in that timeframe. The time between Generations and now is approaching twice that, and arguably has less good games than the late 2000s. The games are in a worse state now than what people are calling the lowest point.

[@theutubepower1243]

2006-2011 had sonic rush adventure, the hd version of sonic unleashed, and both versions of sonic colors. 2011-now only has sonic mania Yeah the dark age has more good games than nowadays

[@cookieblobber]

TheUtubePower 12 what about generations?

[@theutubepower1243]

Surielle’s Cookieblobber: Nuggin I’m using generations as the turning point so I’m not including it even though its good

[@cookieblobber]

TheUtubePower 12 oh

[@gameman5804]

TheUtubePower 12 I’ll Count Generations. And this era of Sonic started in 2010, So if we were to dim it down to just the main Sonic Games (no racing titles) made by Sonic Team... the only good game from Sonic Team was Unleashed. The Storybook games have good in them but they aren’t the best designed games. And 06... well that pretty obvious. 2010 we got Sonic Colors which I’m not too big on, it did leave a positive impact as a whole. (I’ll defend Adventure, I’ll defend this). And Sonic Generations was even better imo. Lost World tried to be different but it was so fucking unfocused and Forces had a great setup, but it stumbled. Yeah, I think the Dark Age thing still holds up in my opinion.

[@MegaSonic94]

I'd rather have the cheesiness of Sonic Heroes like "the real superpower of teamwork" than "baldy mcnosehair" or "best boss beating ever"

[@donathan2933]

MegaSonic I agree. Sonic Heroes is a lighthearted and cheesy game done right

[@TwoBitSpecialist]

I liked Sonic Colors. Made me chuckle a few times.

[@donathan2933]

@@TwoBitSpecialist It was a great game but the dialogue was ass and cringy

[@VirtuousAezon]

They could just make sonic a cool light hearted guy who just so happens to be a hero.

[@ADragonNerd]

Sonic Heroes is weird because Sonic never talked like that in the Adventure games and never referred to himself as "sonic heroes" other than that game.

[@cosmicspider2]

Gotta love it when the franchises you cherish(ed) are now being catered to people who never liked the series. Or catered to those who were fans of a specific era and not the series as a whole. Never wanting to evolve outside of said era.

[@superhedgehog6447]

Someone finally gets it

[@nintenjoeee]

I was in born in 2000 so I grew up during the "dark age" and didn't experience all the negative aura around Sonic at the time and actually enjoyed the likes of Shadow the Hedgehog cuz I was too young to notice flaws.

[@winterbliss3690]

I kept saying that while Mania is a good game, it's good because it mainly uses past ideas from already successful Sonic games. Mania in retrospect barely has an identity outside replicating literal past stages, something Generations already did but better in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with using good past ideas and improving upon them for future games, but Mania so heavily relies on this idea that I even question whether or not its praise is that deserved. About 70% of the game isn't even its own thing and, much like the Colors and Generations hype, Mania does NOT guarantee a good future for Sonic. Maybe for Classic fans specifically, but not for fans of Sonic all around. This is why I feel like there are more problems now then there were in the Dark Age. I will never say that the Dark Age was perfect or unflawed, never. But I can argue that Sonic 2010 has more problems than the Dark Age. For the Dark Age it was mainly about getting the gameplay correct. Now it's not just about the gameplay for Sonic 2010. Now it's the heavy reliance on nostalgia pandering when it isn't necessary. Now nobody else but Sonic or a Sonic can be playable in the games, now the games are nothing but 2-3 hour experiences with no additional content or reliability. The most you'll do is collect red rings which in my opinion have severally overstayed their welcome. Now we have wisps that actually replace Sonic core abilities that he's had since the beginning of his 3D Adventure, and even some that copy other characters abilities that it's highly questionable whether or not they were truly used for a "placeholder" for the actual characters we care about. Now, almost EVERY single member of the cast is either flanderized, had their personalities ruined, downright annoying or boring to the point that their character is unrecognizable, also the fact that these powerful and competent characters who had their own adventures are basically nothing but Sonic cheerleaders. Now it's the Sonic twitter being nothing but a meme generator to the point it actually affects how people view these characters even impacted them in animations like Big and Shadow in TSR Overdrive. Now the stories won't attempt ANY ideas it has and decided to be nothing but a Sonic comedy skit featuring Tails, Orbot and Cubot, and other villains? They get pushed to the side for Eggman. You thought the Time Eater was the one running things? No, it was Eggman. How about the Deadly 6? No, they're one dimensional characters and Eggman is the true bad guy. How about Infinite, the once hyped up villian? Nothing but a kid who threw a tantrum, got beat and then EGGMAN once more ran the show. Now there's no world building either. We learned nothing about the Lost Hex accept that its basically New Super Mario Bros. the planet. Now we have another Sonic further splitting his already inconsistent series and dividing the fandom even more when his creation wasn't even necessary. The Adavnce Trilogy showed Sonic in his new design along with his friends that weren't trapped behind what we now call the "Classic era". We could've had Modern characters in 2D games like Advance but now I believe the 2D games will solely belong to the Classic era due to Mania's success, so we don't even have that to fall back on when it comes to other playable characters being in 2D like Shadow, Cream and many others. There are so many new problems with 2010 Sonic that just wasn't present in the Dark Age. Again, the Dark Age wasn't perfect, but it is now 2020 and we're STILL left unsure about Sonic's future just like how we were in the Dark Age. It's funny that despite listening to reviewers and getting rid of Sonic's "crappy" friends, the world building, the more ambitious storytelling, the characterization, and making the games more 2D focused that it STILL didn't fix Sonic. It's almost, they were wrong. But that's incorrect to think of course. I'm done, this rant has gone on far enough.

[@DemonDethchase]

I kinda wish they'd ditch Orbot and Cuebot. They were - and weren't as it was different characters - pretty much carry overs from the Sonic X anime (which I keep threatening to actually start watching one of these days!) but I miss when Eggman could be seen as a serious threat without what might as well be the Baldrick and Percy (Blackadder) backing him up, like the Adventure era. Also with the tantrum Infinite throws over being called weak, thank god Shadow never called him Deadweight, as we all know how some people react to being called that. Plus the other characters should be totally brought back as playable characters, as it's been far too long since they've had a chance to shine. And for a playable Tails... No mechs. No being lumbered with extra characters that has him in a state of constant flight. Instead, like SA1, let Tails run (and fly) wild and free. Because, as the old saying goes: let Tails run (and fly) wild and free.

[@theimpersonator7086]

That seems to be the common condenses now a days in all honestly. My take on all of this is the Sonic series has had a lot of fundamental issues for a long time(as in during the 90s). The series is just stuck in a endless loop right now till they fix them. Funny Note:Sonic games and world building lmao. Sonic has some of the worst continuity and consistent out of any franchise I have ever seen. It was a mess before 06 tried soft rebooting, and even more of a mess after Unleashed ignored Cannon from the past games

[@greeneye2037]

Nostalgia pandering is never necessarily.

[@CarbonRollerCaco]

The Impersonator Most of the pre-‘06 mess was Sega of America’s doing as they wanted all of the different takes on Sonic to be taken as the same continuity. “Princess Sally” in Sonic CD, anyone? Of course, the post-Adventure 1 games introduced their own issues, which is ironic given that Adventure 1 was supposed to reaffirm the games as having the true continuity.

[@theimpersonator7086]

@@CarbonRollerCaco Yeah, it was a complete and total cluster mess lmao. The problems extend far further than just basic consistency and reason within the world. One example would be how the Master Emerald is used as a cheap plot device to justify characters being in the story, or how it convienty disappears when the writers need it to. It is a shame as well. A game like Sonic 3 and K, taken on its own has such excellent world building. Level transitions and storytelling through level design were geniuses ideas that should have stayed with the series. Angel Island feels like a cohesive fleshed out world because of them.

[@stormcutter59]

I've been waiting for this video for a long time. About time someone tore the series as it stands to shreds. 2010 to 2020 has been by far the biggest waste of time for Sonic and me as a fan of Sonic. Waste? Yeah that's the best word to sum it all up

[@donathan2933]

I love the Dark Age, Sega was willing to take risks add more seriousness and depth to the characters and stories and best of all they had balls, they were willing to change things of a bit regardless of hate. This era gets red of all of that

[@The_UltimateL1feform]

Exactly I don’t even consider it to be the dark ages of sonic cause they actually tried and cared about sonic games and there were a bunch of good sonic games in the 2000s and also every sonic game in the 2000s had a very good story while the only good sonic games in the 2010s were mania generation the new sonic racing game and colours the rest of the sonic games was shit especially sonic boom. Sonic boom was the biggest mistake and should’ve never existed.

[@zeroxenoverse9251]

@@The_UltimateL1feform Well Sonic Boom was meant to appeal more to western audiences and territories.

[@alejandrolozano4919]

It feel like the 2000 I was born was not the dark ages it feel it was illusion of people telllng it was the dark age it wasn’t the dark age was 2010 to 2020 it feel that is the dark age the worse there only small. Bit of good it have.

[@austinreed7343]

But they did do some superficial attempts at the seriousness and depth after Boom’s backlash.

[@bulb9970]

I remember back in 2012 the fanbase considered Colors one of the best Sonic games ever. They praised the comedic story, the wisps and how the game focused only on Sonic from beginning to end. Funny how today the general opinion is the exact opposite of that.

[@superhedgehog6447]

Sonic was never really supposed to have a Saturday morning cartoon tone anyway. Sonic should always have a tone similar to Unleashed. A balance of being lighthearted and being serious when the story calls it.

[@undeadbatman9762]

@@superhedgehog6447 SA2 is a good example too.

[@projectbat7465]

No it’s not the general public it’s just the weird sonic fans! We all still fuck with colors for the gameplay atleast like if they wanna play a dark sonic game go back to the past games and let sega do what the fuck they want it’s their game!!

[@crowkid5553]

Not really but colors is still a good game regardless

[@lpfan4491]

@@projectbat7465 Can I unoreverse this? Because the minds of the people behind it all changed because the opposite statement wasn't honored.

[@sapphirezx315]

I don't like what has become of Knuckles the Echidna, my favourite Sonic character

[@lynxfresh5214]

Yup he was once just as fast as Sonic, matched Sonic in terms of power (with his own super/hyper forms), had actual intelligence (from laying traps to actually learning how to repair/pilot the Tornado) and let's not forget his role as guardian... Now he is irreverent outside cringe fest memes and consistently be humiliated as the "strong but dumb" cliche with zero substance otherwise. This might sound elitist but classic/archie Knuckles will always be the truest essence of the character imho (at least before they kept reusing the Knuckles gets tricked again plotline and Ken becoming Eggman IRL).

[@CaptainCoolzCT-]

IKR? Both Modern Metal Sonic & Modern Knuckles are just plainly unused now... it’s a shame. Metal Sonic's Sonic Forces Boss Fight was a clone of infinite’s, AND it wasn’t even the real modern metal sonic. Knuckles didn’t even appear in the gameplay.

[@donathan2933]

Lynx Fresh I get your point but how could Knuckles ever match Sonic in speed?

[@tiruliru1189]

And I fucking hate what has become of Tails. He used to be a brave sidekick who rescued Elise, the President (as seen in ShTH) and Cosmo, overcame his fears and defeated Metal Overlord, Metal Sonic, Mecha Sonic, Hard Boiled Heavies and Chaos, and he even rivalled Dr. Eggman. Now, he can't even overcome his fears. I hate how they made him into an idiotic, insecure little twerp who keeps bragging about his shitty machines and cowers in fear whenever there's a danger. Basically, he's a worse version of Chris Thorndyke nowadays. I just hope this nightmare is over, now that Pontac's and Graff's contracts have apparently expired.

[@RatchetSprite1]

1991-1998 Classic Era 1998-2005 Adventure Era 2006-2010 Modern Era 2011-2020 The “Safe” Era They just don’t give af anymore. After Black Knight, they just constantly milked nostalgia and removed the “cool” factor of Sonic. It’s quite sad, honestly.

[@precieux6303]

2014 started the "memes to stay relevant" era

[@Merdicano]

Someone said a legit good comment on a video, and it was that Black Knight was literally the last game that had the real Sonic

[@mjc0961]

"2006-2010 Modern Era" No. That's not modern. It's at least a decade old. The problem with calling anything "modern" is that eventually it stops being modern. Saw Sonic Adventure 2 get described as "modern Sonic" a couple weeks ago. No, dude. Look at a calendar. 2001 isn't modern. There's more time between the release of Sonic Adventure 2 and today than there is between the release of Sonic Adventure 2 and the original Sonic the Hedgehog for SEGA Genesis.

[@RatchetSprite1]

mjc0961 if you wanna get technical with it go ahead. Change the name, but I think you know what I meant.

[@donathan2933]

@@mjc0961 exactly 1998-2004 was the Dreamcast era, 2005-2010 was the Dark/4kids era and 2010+ is the Modern/now era

[@TheSkully343]

Aside from wasted potential the biggest drawback to this era was a lack of ambition, fulfilling content and middling apathy to executing the solid hook that these games needed to reel back an audience they came close to losing by 2009. What it fixed was having a graphical standard that was about as good as it needed to be, serviceable animations, a voice director who managed to avoid the pitfalls that earlier titles like Shadow or Adventure 1 fell into (though those weren't really helped with having a heavier involvement from the Japanese team) and certain quality standard of game design so we never got anything as bad as 06 or Shadow for the main Sonic Team games ever again. But in doing all this, the Sonic series had to throw out its babies with the bathwater to achieve what it was, and what it was was a game that showed stability but in retrospect is the most paint by numbers Sonic game to grace the series (Colours) a good game that fell short of the GREAT game it could've been (Generations) a game that sought to pander to a demographic that had no interest along with contradicting tones and terrible art design (Lost World) And after Rise of Lyric was awkwardly merged with the TV show we just saw a dry spell of memes, self referential social media material and what was ostensibly a Simpsons clone using Sonic characters. Mania was fun for what it was, but after about 3 years it shows no sign of being a permanent thing so for all intents and purposes it might as well be a glorified fan game given official status because Whitehead and his Team earned their good graces with SEGA only there to appeal to one specific audience which it does really well and I'm appreciative of that... But it comes with the heavy cost of leaving the series in an eternal state where your legacy only walks because that's all the series can use to win people's confidence. Forces was the definition of C O M P R O M I S E. Where the game was trying to sate audiences who wanted dark stories, kids who wanted their fan characters in the game, Classic Sonic fans who liked Mania to play it, and general audiences to make memes out of LOL FUNNY DEVIANT ART HOGHEDGE. Jack of all trades Master of None. It wasn't great, wasn't really all that good, but I've played worse so at the end I'm left in a state of "Why should I care?" as opposed to outright anger or genuine enthusiasm. And its not as if I'm hurting for SEGA games since I've got Yakuza, Sakura Wars, Judgement as well as the upcoming Streets of Rage 4 and potential new NiGHTS game coming soon. So quite frankly I don't feel like this series is at the top of SEGA's priority list so much as it is a franchise that's just there because its too unambitious and negative to attract people's attention but too popular to kill because people are nostalgic for the franchises past successes and enjoy mocking its embarrassing failures

[@96wtfomg]

Some people tell me "you're not a fan!" when I criticize Sonic. I started to question it myself? Can someone really be a fan of Forces, Lost World and Boom?! C'mon man, we used to go toe to toe with Mario

[@edgelord8337]

I want to mention sonic runners game. Sonic runners was a love letter to the entire sonic fan base. The game brought back characters like mephalis, werehog, tikal and big the cat characters that were thought to never appear in any sonic game again. Sticks was brought back from the sonic boom series in runners too. Runners also had an absolutely beautiful ost being the best ost in my opinion since generations. The game as the name implies was an endless runner with you competing to get a high score and was satisfying and fun. But Sega had to ruin it with how hard it was to get rings and the Roulette was just a way to get Sega rich because you had to pay 50 red star rings to play and there was a huge chance that you wouldn't even get the character egg and just get some crap. It just left a sour taste in everyone's mouth and runners was deemed a failure by Sega and was shut down. Sega screwed this game that has potential because they were being extremely greedy. See pat macs video about runners for more info

[@DanieleMulas-up7np]

LMFAOOOOOO Reaching much ? A shitty ass, pay-to-win phone game that was cancelled ? That's the big return of other characters ? Also fuck Sticks. This comment is embarassing...

[@autosaver]

Yeah Runners was fine until as you pointed out, they continually updated to become more and more greedy. If I recall, there was even an update at some point where there was an always unavoidable hazard after x meters that prevented you from progressing unless you paid red rings for a revive.

[@autosaver]

Daniele Mulas In fairness, the game’s production values were phenomenal. The gameplay was actually really good too. There was a ton of love put into the game and it was even developed by the main sonic team.

[@DanieleMulas-up7np]

@@autosaver Phenomenal ? Recycling that god-awful, fruity Mario-esque design from Lost World ? What are you, drunk ? Good gameplay my ass, it was a lame endless runner with loads of stupid gimmicks to pad it out, not to mention the roulette debacle. Again, good riddance.

[@jagjitjapra1280]

@@DanieleMulas-up7np stfu the core gameplay was pretty good for a mobile game and while the whole roulete thing was garbage the character design for the characters were a good blend of the classic and modern art styles for sonic

[@CapitalTeeth]

BigRedButton was done so fucking dirty. Here they were already on their way developing the game on an already tight schedule, and then in came Sega who went "Yeah nah, you see this game? Make it for the Wii U. I don't care if the engine you're using is incompatible with the Wii U. JUST DO IT." And as such they had to work all the way from scratch while trying to get the engine they were using to work on the Wii U. What you see in the game's trailer is what was from before that happened, btw.

[@sulphurous2656]

"Well, Let's start with the cartoon..." I prefer to call it an animated sitcom if anything. Not like we didn't have any of that on Cartoon Network at the time....

[@DanieleMulas-up7np]

A really shitty sitcom. Good riddance.

[@Blueflag04]

@@calebproductions1264 dont pretend to be a tough guy who hates cute stuff

[@iug5672]

@@calebproductions1264 what crossover?

[@sulphurous2656]

@@Blueflag04 Boom was anything but 'Cute' for me... The voice acting is constantly distracting. It feels like I've heard their exact timbre in every other animated 'hurr durr' knock off of Everybody Loves Raymond airing on CN at the time. If the characters don't take anything at any time even remotely seriously or with a sense of honesty, and constantly break the fourth wall In the most in your face fashion imaginable, then how am I as the audience supposed to? Just pure tone death and a "look we stoopid lol" attitude wouldn't make a show like Sonic X any better. Yet I don't hold Boom In higher regard than it for a very good reason. On an unrelated note, several of the character models just look pain weird and disproportionate. The shader detail is also poor. So is the shadow depth and lighting, nothing really catches my eye In the scene building. It's just so bland, much like the content that's supposed to be intellectually stimulating me in some way.

[@felipe_drawmania1604]

@@calebproductions1264 Who are you to tell him what to like?

[@tabifiedler6944]

This video cut me deep in my heart because of how true it is. I wish Sonic would stop trying to solely be a kid’s franchise. It’s so much better when it tries to appeal to all ages. Also, screw Sega’s mandates that don’t allow Sonic to cry or show emotion anymore. He’s a character, not a corporate mascot.

[@epsilonalphaargo1948]

Kids like death, destruction and disaster. Gerry Anderson understood this and this is why his shows like Captain Scarlet and Thunderbirds are still enjoyable today. SEGA and Sonic Team would do very well if they understood this.

[@Whisky-Glass-Lass]

​@@epsilonalphaargo1948 Well hey, Sonic does get "tortured for months" after being captured in Sonic Forces! Except that it's entirely off-screen, he shows zero after-effects from it, we never even find out what kind of torture it was, and oh, it was made up purely as part of the English dub...yeah, I'm not saying I want to see Sonic being brutally tortured, but the series could definitely do with growing some spines again, Sonic Adventure 2 style!

[@mangleman25]

1:15 Yo, THANK you for the Black Knight defense. I've noticed a rise in Black Knight love over the years, alot like Unleashed. It's nice to see games from the era I grew up with become more accepted and *decently* critiqued as time has gone on.

[@thelonewolf7443]

I thought Jason Griffith was fantastic as Sonic and ended up being my favorite voice for the Blue Blur of all time.

[@JMotion]

You gave me the biggest flashbacks to the exact moment I learned that Sonic Boom wasn't just bad, but a broken unfinished mess. I remember the video so clearly (The clip of Lyric's ship flying in during the fishbowl helmet things are talking). My heart sank when I saw it. My expectations were already low, since it was a totally different take on Sonic, and it retained none of the fun gameplay that the series had been known for. But finding out that it was not only an uninspired bland game, but also a janky, unpolished, poorly performing mess... it really hurt. That game just never should've been given the go-ahead. It was a flawed concept from the start.

[@brunolinares604]

I always found Sonic 4 very manipulative. I mean, why the need to focus so much in making a comeback to 2d Sonic? Sonic Advance and Rush series were still recent games even by 2010s.

[@AAhmou]

Ambu u And look how great that turned out... Even Sonic Mania's full potential was dampened down thanks to Sega's over reliance on empty nostalgia.

[@AAhmou]

Ambu u 1. It's obvious irony. 2. Yes, Sonic Mania is great, so great in fact it is one of the greatest Sonic games period. However, if you read about its development, the game could've been better... It was thanks to several constraints Sega put (for the sake of nostalgia pandering), that it couldn't reach its full potential.

[@brunolinares604]

Oh that's a shame. I own a Mania Plus copy and despite not being good at classic Sonic games, I am learning and enjoying it.

[@hikmori7]

Ikr.

[@hikmori7]

Hi, Caleb. I knew you come to discuss this mess of franchise.

[@johnrildo2325]

The Sonic franchise has enormous potential, but Sonic Team doesn't know how to make good games. Even a lot of fan-made games are vastly superior to what Sonic team puts out. It's sad. Someone else who knows what they're doing needs to take over the Sonic series.

[@maryafantalia4357]

Ridiculous. The Sonic franchise were good before Colors. Leave Sega alone, it's their fanbase which ruines the franchise.

[@thesnatcher3616]

@@maryafantalia4357 The Sega from the Genesis Era and even the "Dark" Era is a completely different from the Sefa we have now.

[@maryafantalia4357]

@@thesnatcher3616 And Frontiers ? Isn't it the game people call "redemption Sonic game" ?

[@SegaKidJay]

Growing up with Sonic in the 2000's and having played both his 3D and 2D games the 2010's always felt off from the start. Colors was praised, but it felt average to me, Generation felt like it needed to be longer and after that it felt like Sonic was no longer Sonic, but something different entirely. This video hit thar latter half right. A good example is Manias intro compared to CD both are good, but CD's is more serious and more cool it sets you up for a great adventure while Mania is mostly cutesy happy stuff. I don't hate that, but I think Sonic should always be a mix I hope 2020 does better for Sonic.

[@mr.kevin1209]

Fortunately, from what I've know Pontac and Graff aren't the writers anymore so that is a good start at least

[@PersTG]

@@mr.kevin1209 Yo, where'd you hear that, that's amazing!

[@mr.kevin1209]

@@PersTG I think it was from another youtuber talking about Sonic News, and I think I found it about 3 weeks after the movie was released

[@PersTG]

@@mr.kevin1209 Well, i'll try looking around for it then, thnx man. Let's hope this decade's better

[@gantz22ify]

You're comparing openings that feature a cartoon hedgehog, meaning both are silly by default.

[@Klonoahedgehog]

I hate how Team Sonic Racing pretty much killed my hope for a new Sega all stars racing game. Those were SO good and there should be a new one.

[@SuperSonicWarrior93]

The only good thing about Team Sonic Racing, was the fact that they brought back Crush 40 for the soundtrack. That’s it.

[@austinreed7343]

HadouKeyblade And also for Riders. The game was the worst of both worlds.

[@Blueflag04]

The fact that J didnt mention it is mind boggling

[@jgoodz6485]

What pains me is that Nintendo has solidified Mario's formula: - Super Mario Bros: 2D Side Scrolling Platformer - New Super Mario Bros: 2.5D revamp of side scrolling platformer - Super Mario 64, Sunshine, Galaxy, 3D Land/World, Odyssey: 3D Platformer Spinoffs: - Mario Party - Mario Kart 5 roughly different areas where they're able to tweak and rehash to produce consistently good games This cannot be said the same for Sega and Sonic because they haven't taken the risk of reusing and revamping the original formulas they had. As much as I love Mario it's actually quite saddening to see Sonic on a Nintendo system with no chance of ever seeing Mario or better yet Sonic on a Sega platform. Final Points: - They've got the formula for classic sonic in Sonic Mania stick to that. - 2.5D: Revisit Sonic Rush arguably influential for the boosting mechanic - 3D: Imo revive the sonic adventure series and hereos the most influential 3d sonic games of the modern age both had highlights which made them stand out. Spinoffs should not even be a thought until the mess main series games is cleaned up. Hopefully we see a better path for sonic in the future

[@costby1105]

The thing is though that the 3d mario games are all very different takes on the formula. 3d land/world are takes on the 2d formula in 3d, while the Galaxy games are heavily influenced by Super Mario Bros 3 (Think of each planet as a stage in of itself and each galaxy as a world) while Sunshine and Odyssey are derived from Mario 64 which was a very different game from the 2d outings. The only really consistent formula is the New Super Mario Bros. which the whole point is to be a refined throwback the 2d games.

[@jgoodz6485]

@@costby1105 Totally agree, Nintendo know what they're doing and how to revamp their formula, trailblazers for sure. We could even see 06' is a take on the adventure series (which I truly believe they're hesitant to explore again, due to the negativity it got early on) and Sonic 4 a take on the classic sonic games which also had some negativity around it. Again Generations seemed to be a success but then they dropped the ball on Forces so what's next? To me it seems original Sonic games tend to be good, it's the sequels / revamps which they seem to fail at, bar the classic games. Any of these could have potential if done right imo: - Sonic Adventure 3 - Sonic Rush 3 (Switch) - ( I said no spinoffs but) Sonic Riders 4 (I think Xbox Kinect was the main downfall) - An original Series, whatever this could be (maybe explore the origins of the chaos emerald or something)

[@bradley8575]

I am a fan of both franchise and love both but I have to say it that Mario has much better Games but Sonic has better tv shows movies and charterers.

[@JGoodz17]

@@bradley8575 came back to say the 2nd film was amazing, you're right they do TV well, can't wait for prime and hopes on frontier

[@bradley8575]

@@JGoodz17 yeah the 2nd film was good but I think the Mario Movie will probably surpass both the 2nd and first one Also sonic has better Comics too.

[@knux333jw]

A pretty solid overview of the 2010s. It boggles my mind how people still try to hype this period of time up as better than any other... when it has as many ups and downs. And some elements that are just worse. To me, this felt like the most soulless painful year. Because despite Colors and Generations being decent games, they were the gateway to games that just shat on Sonic's identity. And I can never fully forgive this period for that. Colors, Generations, and Mania were not good enough... and especially not fresh or ambitious enough to warrant this decade being seen as anything other than the real "Dark Era". ...At least in my eyes.

[@raidoukuzonoha883]

I agree its sad that fans and atlus (company that sega own with WAY less money yet makin Persona 5) can make better games than sega what i think they should do is take a step back and look at what made sonic work and stop only focusing on sonic make a new nights into dreams or jet set radio anyway that my two sense on it

[@HunterForHire422]

I personally think the classic era is objectively the best, followed by the meta era, then the "dark age". I enjoy the games in the meta era that are good much more than the high points of the dark age. This era also doesn't have a low point has laughable as 06 but that's just my opinion. Generations and mania are my favorite sonic games ever made.

[@raidoukuzonoha883]

@@HunterForHire422 i like shadow the hedgehog cause im very nostalgic towards it but i acknowledge its very flawed personally adventure 2 heroes and mania are my favouirtes

[@gantz22ify]

Thank you, self appointed arbiter of "Good enough".

[@Prime_Legend]

@@HunterForHire422 e. "This era also doesn't have a low point has laughable as 06 but that's just my opinion. Generations and mania are my favorite sonic games ever made." Sonic Boom and Sonic colors. You might say "what colors was good" just because you're hopping on the opinions of other reviewers or don't know Sonic's core identity. Sonic colors is a Linear, 2D blocky and unwritten mess. It deserves to be another 06 in the franchise. The meta era has more downs. In the so-called "dark age" era we had Sonic Rush Adventure, Sonic Rivals 2, Black Knight, Shadow, and Unleashed. This era is called the "dark era" because a bunch of retarded reviewers that don't know Sonic came to start reviewing the games. Most of these dark era games easily outperform Colors, Lost World, Boom, and Forces. Generations and Mania are alright but Generations is simply a nostalgic tech demo. Mania, on the other hand, is just a good technical nostalgic throwback that actually falls back in some areas like Set pieces, Level Progression, lore and Boss Fights(Mania has shitty bosses)

[@HACSSuperbMiner]

God I hate being a Sonic fan sometimes...

[@sulphurous2656]

You might say being a Sonic fan is hard.

[@donathan2933]

youarealoser . com ikr these “fans” are just.......ugh

[@MoriXIII]

...This was sad, to say the least. The first memory I have of my life is me playing Sonic 1, for the Master System. I grew up playing Sonic games and I still belive this franchise heavily impacted me and my tastes when it comes for to the things I like. Unfortunately, Sonic doesn't feel like the cool and different anymore. The games doesn't feel as passionate and creative, exploding with personallity. Everything just feels like an empty shell of what it once was

[@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz]

Sonic Heroes was my first videogame ever. and I thought the rest would be great... I miss those times :(

[@silversonic99]

The sad part is I remember at the start of the decade when people thought that this is it, sonic is making a comeback. I mean hell, we started it with sonic colors, followed by sonic generations. Back to back bangers. How naive we were.

[@jdawson7877]

The decade started off as sonics big comback but ended as the worst decade of sonic's career

[@ABCodeX]

@@jdawson7877 Ironically the inverse of the 4kids era

[@myheroandmadaralover2372]

yah sadly and as masive sonic fan it piss me off maina i love still need more orgail zones yet izuka is still being stuiped

[@zacharyblack8623]

I actually think it’s really baffling and even disrespectful what they did to knuckles. Knuckles was sort of a tragic character, the last of his kind. This is deep stuff and to just turn into the stereotypical dumb character is just insulting. Honestly if Boom knuckles was just a different character I’d like him a lot more because in the show he is pretty funny, but his connection to a character like the OG knuckles just makes me hate him. Plus his design is top heavy and stupid.

[@kylecampbell565]

Zachary Black well id day Knuckles was massacred a long time ago with Sonic X and Advance 2

[@zacharyblack8623]

Kyle Campbell yeah it’s was a slow burn sadly

[@kylecampbell565]

Zachary Black yeah they ruined tails and shadow but I feel some characters were derailed before the 2010s. Some got rerailed before derailed again. I do wonder if Sonic X or Sonic Boom caused more damage (X was the start of eggman being a joke and the two worlds concept)

[@zacharyblack8623]

Yeah even sonic himself is just not right these days. I don’t know how someone can see an interesting character and take all but their worst qualities and not have a problem with it.

[@WaterKirby1994]

Actually the 2 Worlds concept started in Sonic OVA where there was the World of Sky & World of Darkness I think? The 2 Worlds stuff referring to Earth & Mobius was an attempt to please the Western Fans of the series old lore. Sonic X at least solved the Moon thing after Adventure 2, & gave us the Metarex. Additionally Sonic X Season 1 had some interesting E-Series Robots which obviously existed yet were never seen prior to the unveiling of the E-100 Series in Sonic Adventure.

[@gamingandstuff1522]

Literally every sonic character in this decade can fall into two groups. Flanderized or Underused.

[@lordcornelius]

Sonic in the 2010s can be summed up as “Overcorrection”

[@YuzuMelodious]

Hmm, seems like a very fitting choice of words.

[@maptime1680]

Sonic synergy could have been the best designed and most ambitious game this decade. Look how action packed fun all the stages plot and multiple characters could have been.

[@MetaKnuxXbeats]

The 2010s for Sonic was.... a mess to say the least. I feel like I said everything I needed to say in Jeb's videos in the comment section. (Nice to see J and Jeb crossovering btw) but I will just say this. I hope the series only gets better from here after the Sonic movie.

[@aortaplatinum]

Roger Craig Smith finally leaving the role of Sonic only to come back like a month later was like the last big kick in the balls this era gave us before moving on to this new formula and tone with Frontiers

[@thereisnospaghetti4652]

I don't know if this is a controversial opinion... But I would rather have another Sonic 06 then another Sonic Boom. At least Sonic 06 had potential, wasted potential but still potential.

[@austinreed7343]

I find it odd how Lost World and Boom are treated completely different from similar 2000s games.

[@bradley8575]

@@austinreed7343 sonic Boom isn’t Canon but lost world is

[@austinreed7343]

@@bradley8575 As in, even SLW and Boom have potential.

[@joshgroban5291]

Funnily enough, I wouldn't really call the classic games light hearted even though I wouldn't call them dark either. At a surface level, The classics are fun, silly game but once you actually look into it they get kinda dark. I mean everyone forgets Eggman literally stuffs animals into robot suits and cages them. Sonic CD is the ultimate example of this. First of Metal Sonics design is creepy, it's exactly what you'd imagine a cold killer robot to be, and he's peak character design. The holograms of him beating up animals represent how without sonic, blue hedgehog would be a symbol of fear thanks to metal. Second we directly see what happens if Eggman wins, thanks to Bad Future. He directly fucks with the landscape and ruins the environment, and some of the levels are terrible. if sonic loses you can see how badly Eggman would ruin the earth hell in Sonic 2 it's literally stated that robotnik turned the oceans black with crude oil. So I'd say the classics aren't dark but they're definitely mature once you look into them. People say classic Sonic was simple with no maturity, definitely did not look at the games beyond a gameplay level and knew nothing of the lore.

[@jdawson7877]

and people say colors return sonic to his roots no it didn't not even close it

[@joshgroban5291]

@@jdawson7877 agreed. Colors could've been as mature as the classics, as Eggman kidnaps aliens for nefarious purposes. But, this is completely overshadowed by the jokes, the constant quipping and more. The classics never had any cutscenes or just sillyness in the story so the mature aspects of those games stood out more. The story of colors isn't even that deep compared to 3 or CD. 2 is sorta deep because it expands on how tails wanted to be just like sonic. Tails is awesome in Sonic 2. He doesn't even help Sonic *that* much in Colors outside of being the "hey I'm smart" guy

[@undeadbatman9762]

@@joshgroban5291 There is so much lore in the manuals for the classic games it's not even funny.

[@lpfan4491]

People:"It's a true return to roots!" Me:"You, er...are actually classic fans, right? These pictures are nothing alike. As in, 1% similarity and it comes from Sonic's general bodyshape."

[@Milkmanrules1032]

Another thing that bugs me is characters in the 2010's like Tails for example. It seemed to me that the whole point of Sonic Adventure was for Tails to become independent and not follow Sonic's Shadow as a sidekick anymore and he eventually gets hailed as a hero. Tails was almost like a Confident Action hero in Sonic Adventure 2 but for some reason they decided to make him a sidekick again. I feel like Classic Tails should stay a sidekick while modern Tails should be a independent hero in his own right! Not just Tails characters like Knuckles have to also deal with this.

[@KoreeluStromboli]

3:39 Cindy Robinson as Amy got better starting with Sonic Boom. 3:43 I didn't like how Shadow sounded in Sonic Free Riders either because of how he sounded sultry.

[@rankrodent2772]

Lisa Ortiz is the best Amy

[@bowmaj8666]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, but I truly do think the Sonic series is in the state that it's in due to how Sega views the fan base. They see people constantly trashing Sonic for every little thing (even when the series is at it's best). They watch moronic people making videos whining how Sonic games have too many characters or how the stories take themselves too seriously. They see that the internet is flooded with idiotic parodies of Sonic, like those purposefully bad fan characters poking fun of the idea of fan characters as a whole, until people can no longer tell what's a parody and what isn't! They see people guffawing like slack jawed yokels over incredibly unfunny memes like Sanic and Ugandan Knuckles. (Christ, I'll take the stories of Colours and Forces over watching those travesties, any day of the week!) And because of all of this I honestly think that the makers of these games have developed this "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" attitude. They think they don't have to work as hard because hey, no one really likes Sonic, do they? People are only buying these games so they can make their overly negative KZbin reviews with all the same BS we've heard a million times before so they can get views, (because of how "hip" and "cool" it is to trash Sonic these days) and Sega don't seem to care, since they'll still make money! It feels like Sega don't seem to care what kind of state the series is in, because they think we don't care! And when you look at some of the stuff I mentioned, can you honestly blame them? And if you're the kind of person who does care about this series and wants to see it have some actual dignity and quality once again, we'll.... tough titty, I guess! We've seen time and time again that having a positive opinion about Sonic leads to nowhere these days. And that's just sad!

[@XTornado8198]

Wow. For a while, I was never able to properly express my feelings towards the Sonic series as of late, but you summed it up better than I ever could. You're absolutely correct about this whole situation being incredibly sad, but I think what's even sadder is how SEGA's treatment of their star franchise will seemingly never stop because it's the safest approach they can take for the series all so they can hope to make a decent game for the fans to play as well as pandering to critics/journalists/non-Sonic fans. Being a fan of Sonic for over 10 years now, I'll still always wanna know what's the next game's gonna be, but I'd honestly be lying if I said I'm hopeful for the future cause having that particular mindset will arguably lead to more disappointment and negativity, not just from me but from anyone who still has a positive outlook on Sonic.

[@bowmaj8666]

@@XTornado8198 Same here, my friend! There's always a glimmer of hope that the next Sonic game will be great, but it's all based on whether the makers of it have any idea what they're doing with this series, and how the fan base will react to it. So, my faith in this franchise ever returning to it's former glory is steadily diminishing.

[@WaterKirby1994]

Sega of Japan & Ian Flynn are the only hopes for future Sonic games that aren't in the Mania timeline. Sega of America are complete idiots who would rather try to please IGNorant Critics than actual fans. Sega of Japan it's understandable why they only listen to Japanese fans because they don't flood a bunch of contradictory suggestions like US & Europe. At least with Sega of Japan running Sonic the series will be consistent. SoJ will give some of the fans what they want & the series would actually get more funding so it can actually improve under their control. Ian Flynn is the best non Japanese writer that the Sonic Series has ever had & he's still writing comics for the series. I've been a Sonic Fan for 18 1/2 years now & have mostly been disappointed with the series after Black Knight. When Sonic's only good games for an entire decade are crossovers & Sonic Mania you know there's obviously a problem. When Sonic Colors came out I thought it would be a 1 Time Thing rather than every Sonic game for an entire decade. Forces had so much promise for an awesome Sonic Game, although sadly Sega of America had to ruin it just to spite us. Sonic was never supposed to be a Cartoon Animal, he was supposed to be a Shonen Protagonist. How fans of the Adventure Games see Sonic:Spiderman & Goku when fighting. How nonfans of Sonic view him:Cartoon Animal of the 1930s like Micky Mouse. It's sad that people who aren't even fans took control of the series in the aftermath of 06 & changed it into something it was never meant to be. I remember the days when Sonic actually had anger here & there. Getting annoyed by impatience & tapping his foot, being halfway pissed he was locked up in Shadow's place, being furious that Eggman got away with something. He used to be a character that despite the occasional joke could be taken seriously. When Sonic was cocky it was Goku or Jojo styled cockiness, where he was still cool & was still taking the fight seriously. Tails was reduced from character wanting to be as awesome as Sonic someday & improving himself to just mere tech support. Shadow actually had a character arc that never got concluded & was completely abandoned. I desire a return to form for the series when it comes to story & getting to play as more characters than Just Sonic again. I hope the worst decade of Sonic's Career is over with now & that someday he will recover.

[@WaterKirby1994]

@@calebproductions1264 Sega of Japan is the best hope for the series prosperity. Ian Flynn is probably our only chance with Sega of America calling the shots. SoA isn't going to hire Japanese writers who did great work with the series in the past, although Sega of Japan will do that. Compared to the crap that Pontac & Graff gave us, Ian Flynn is giving us gold.

[@crfstewarje]

Are you calling J Reviews stupid for making this video?

[@RedFoxReviewer]

I'm just glad I'm not the only one who has been driven away from Sonic because of the meta era. If I'm being honest I prefer the Dark Age because at least those games were much more interesting even if some of them were failures. At least they didn't continue to beat a dead horse with another dead horse in the form of nostalgia pandering and the boost formula. From Sonic colors onward it felt like the series was being dumbed down and regressing instead of moving forward. I don't really mind the voice actors though my preference is for the adventure cast or even the 4 Kids cast over the current one. The future is very Bleak but I'm hoping that it will be filled with the less Nostalgia pandering. I'm hoping for a return to the adventure formula or maybe even remaking the adventure games from the ground up. I'm also hoping for an updated a Mega Collection and possibly a good Sonic open world game. Still only time will tell and in my opinion the Meta era in some cases was Far worse than Sonic's supposed Dark Age.

[@AK46supr]

RedFoxReviewer imo i felt they were progressing more with the boost formula to devastatingly devolve with forces. But i get what you mean in other areas like story telling and etc.

[@RedFoxReviewer]

@@AK46supr I liked the Boost formula when it was in Sonic Rush and Sonic Unleashed. However, once Sonic team made the boost automated, it quickly wore out its welcome.

[@AK46supr]

RedFoxReviewer it was mostly automated in colors and forces but the most free was generations and second unleashed to me. Unleashed felt somewhat restricted with level design but with great speed while Gens had more places and paths to explore and run through. Felt the most control and free to go where i want. I wish sonic team kept that up in gameplay, sucks they devolved in forces. But one game imo shouldn't be enough to knock it. Its why we lost the adventure formula and might not get it bck. *edit: might I even add its almost crazy to say the colors ds game had less automation a paths to explore with sonics natural moveset than fhe console games which i really wish inspired future boost titles

[@RedFoxReviewer]

@@AK46supr I agree, I thought the Rush games handled the Boost formula perfectly. Same goes for Sonic Colors DS and Sonic Unleashed. Now don't get me wrong I love Generations as much as the next guy, but by adding the adventure stages it only shows how the Boost formula was not meant to be integrated with that gameplay Style or level design. I do like how Sonic Team improved on the multiple pathways since Unleashed but the forced 2D sections in Modern Sonic's stages and the automation hold it back in my opinion. Personally I'm hoping with the next Sonic game they go open world and split the difference. The adventure style of gameplay for completing stages with the Boost formula for traversing around the massive world and for on foot races. I don't hate the Boost formula I just wish they could give us full control over it without any automation whatsoever.

[@jordancromwell]

Fax... Unleashed was great and the other games were either decent and a couple trash but they were memorable

[@92JazzQueen]

I would say that the biggest thing holding back this franchise is that the heads wants a narrow minded view of the franchise. They don't want any depth at all, but just trying to make Sonic into a simplistic mascot.

[@WaterKirby1994]

That's Sega of America, Sega of Japan wants the Sonic Series to be Shonen, although they are too preoccupied with milking Yakuza to fix SoA's mistakes. SoA has no understanding of the series without Sega of Japan or Yuji Naka to explain it to them & the latter left to form his own studio 14 years ago.

[@beta511ee4]

92JazzQueen What is “depth?”

[@SteveCrafts2k]

@@beta511ee4 actual plot, good gameplay, and characters you can relate to. And to those saying Sonic never had a story, the original manuals, found in Japan, say otherwise.

[@beta511ee4]

SteveCrafts2k Kinda subjective, m8.

[@SteveCrafts2k]

@@beta511ee4 Japanese. Manual.

[@Inkfy]

I feel bad for the sonic franchise and fans. I really do. I like the sonic games, but it feels like they can never recapture that spark they got with older games. Even with all the flaws the Adventure games had, I can still see a lot of effort went into them. I think the only other games to really do that again were colors and mania (which was made by fans). It really feels like the sonic team is out of touch with what makes sonic...well...Sonic? I don't want it to be that way, but it's really sad because I want to get invested in Sonic again. I WANT to get invested in this world, but everything else prevents me from doing so. I hope this next decade can give this franchise some sort of relief it desperately needs.

[@jjc4924]

And don't forget Generations. But yeah. I agree.

[@captinsparklezremix]

Colours literally had no effort put into it. That game is an utter embarrassment.

[@cashhhmere]

@@calebproductions1264 Sonic Mania was decent, didn't seem nostalgia-pandering to me...

[@crfstewarje]

@@calebproductions1264 "When you go back from the beginning to end of the shitty decade (2010-2019), their bitching and whining is what kept sega from making actual good sonic games". What the hell kind of hot garbage are you spewing out of your mouth? Sega is the one to blame for their recent Sonic games not being good. THEY were the ones who chose to not put effort into story and level design. But sure, people whining made them not care about what they put out. Your argument is pure garbage.

[@autosaver]

I felt like you skimmed over Episode 2 pretty quickly. The game was seen as a step down as Episode 1 played safe while Episode 2 was ruined with terrible level design and an overused 69 Tails mechanic. It also was terribly optimized on mobile. There was also a bit of controversy where people who bought Episode 1 on the Wii were left in the dust, being forced to purchase both games to play Episode Metal.

[@autosaver]

Valerie Both episodes were available on mobile. On the Wii, you had to re-purchase both episodes on a different platform.

[@mjc0961]

He even had a clip on screen where he's playing as Super Sonic, who gets taken away when you have to do one of several mandatory Tails team-up actions. What's even the point of going through the effort of unlocking Super Sonic when you can't play as him? Also episode 2 loves wasting time in other ways, like that stupidly long intro sequence for the boss that was shown.

[@theimpersonator7086]

20s Sonic should be interesting to say the least. I really do hope they work on a lot of issues with the series. Some noticeable ones for me would be .Way Better Physics- Make Sonic smooth again. Please bring back the Roll .Playable Characters(in Sonic Mania’s style except in 3-D) .More open level design-Not really a fan of labyrinthine level design like Metallic Madness in Sonic CD, or Utopia level design for Sonic. More open level design though would do wonders, along with some more power ups or movement upgrades .Getting a good English Translation-Holy heck, this problem should have been solved more than a decade ago. It continues to bring down the stories of the series when the Japanese versions have infinity better dialogue .Get actual Directors- The Sonic series voice direction is so bad. Combine that with the bad English Scripts, and I feel legitimately sorry for the English Cast for the hate they get. .Emotional Maturity- I found it kind of ironic that there was a whole debate about whether Sonic was originally meant for teenagers a while back. Sonic stories reminds me of a teenager in the fact they are extremely insecure about their own identity, and tried to hide that behind introducing stupid writing aspects. Anywhere from self deprecating meme humor, to awful plot devices like amnesia or time travel. You don’t have to swing back to ether tonal direction ether to do this. Both Persona 3 and Lion King are two very emotionally mature stories, despite them being radically different from a tonal perspective. .Level Transitions and Storytelling through level design- These were absolutely genius ideas that Sonic 3 brought, and they should have stayed imo .Consistent World Building- Sonic’s world building in the game is laughably awful and all over the place. .Better characterization- A lot of the things like getting actual directors, and being more emotionally mature should help out a lot with this. .Cutting/Repurposing Dialogue-Sonic games have a tendency to put dialogue that could be cut with nothing changing. Ether cut the fat or change the fat to muscle. Also have characters speak with there actions more.

[@gantz22ify]

If you hate time travel, don't play Sonic CD: its core mechanic is time travel.

[@theimpersonator7086]

@@gantz22ify I love Sonic CD, even the time travel mechanic. However, I would prefer franchises avoid it like Corona lmao

[@Jdudec367]

if im being completely honest some well teenagers use said "meme" humour

[@theimpersonator7086]

@@Jdudec367 Pretty much

[@seacliff217]

@@gantz22ify He hates it from a storytelling perspective, not a gameplay one. CD is very story light but Time Traveling is tied to the gameplay. 2006 is story heavy, but Time Traveling doesn't enhance or even change the gameplay in any way.

[@justdrinkingmycoffee]

While i dont repeat people's opinions, I think some call me Johnny talked about during his closing review of forces saying that the team is just burned out it's what I think it's happening. While some games were great or bad or meh this decade still has everyone in the same place of what's the future holding for sonic like 2000. One thing I want to mention that I don't want to believe is real is that apparently Sonic forces wasn't made by Sonic team but made by big red button and how Sonic team was just looking overseas the project to see if it's alright. If it's all proven real i feel more worried for this franchise more than I should be.

[@jjc4924]

Yeah. I agree.

[@spamite3378]

So as of now people like sonic again this time """""""""""unironically"""""""""""" due to the Sonic film, Pontaff (Colors writers) have officially left the series, and we may get a new game announcement in April or by next year. Who knows but this decade might be interesting.

[@theimpersonator7086]

I might be being to pessimistic, but Pontaff leaving won’t suddenly make writing in Sonic games good. It has a lot of issues that seriously need to be addressed, since they are bringing down the presentation of the game as well. Most notably would be trimming or editing unnecessary dialogue, and for the love of all that is good in the world getting a good translation from the Japanese scripts. The later is such a serious problem that should have been solved by 05-07

[@spamite3378]

The Impersonator You raise a good point I'd say since Lost World presentation has gone downhill. I think all Sega can do is get genuinly good artists, someone like Ian Flynn to translate, and espically getting a good writer overall.

[@theimpersonator7086]

Best case scenario rn would be ether writing the games in English, or hiring good translators. However, this problem really can’t go on. It has plagued the series since Adventure and is unheard of in other series

[@G5onicDmi]

I read that about Pontaff leaving the series in a few comments Was that officially confirmed somewhere or is it just a rumor? Cause' if it's true then good because I hate them

[@spamite3378]

G5onicDmi Get happy because they're gone

[@elliott1781]

This franchise just has no idea what to do with itself in terms of originality. By this, I'm mostly referring to the current SEGA and Sonic Team. CWhitehead really had stuff going with Mania's ORIGINAL CONTENT, and it was often criticized having too many old zones. I'd love to see new people behind Sonic now .

[@WaterKirby1994]

I'm ok with the reimagined Classic Zones with Chemical Plant being the best zone in Mania. Flying Battery zone reimagined was also great. I agree there need to be more new Mania zones although I also want an almost equal amount of reimagined classics under the condition none of them were in Mania already. What I'm hoping for in Mania 2 is 8 Classic Zones (1 of which should be Sunset Park from Triple Trouble) & 8 new Mania Exclusive Zones & if they want they can give Titanic Monarch the Death Egg Zone Treatment. Sonic Mania in itself should be a mix of old given a new spin & new given an old spin. A game with entirely new zones in the Mania Style would need to be called something else if you ask me.

[@jjc4924]

The one rehash zone of Mania I know that does better than the original is Oil Ocean Zone from Sonic 2. Oil Ocean Zone was one of my least favorite level in Sonic 2 ( Along with Metropolis Zone, Aquatic Ruins, Wing Fortress Zone & few others ). But it gotten alot better in Mania.

[@elliott1781]

@@WaterKirby1994 The reimaginings were extremely well done, but nonetheless telling that Sonic's current existence is mostly proped up by nostalgia for 20 year old ideas and designs. Christian Whitehead is proof that new Sonic ideas can work, but not from the Sonic Team as we know it, as this has been proved time and time again throughout the decade. We need some new people, and we've seen a lot of talent from the fan community

[@crashban4t.f.s.b783]

The 2010s is the darkest age of Sonic ever. Yes the 2000s has Sonic 06 but, there was also Sonic Unleashed and Sonic heroes which are great.

[@purpledragon1945]

The 2010’s were the real dark ages

[@PauClaireIsUnderratedAF]

Dude, I'd take an uncreative game over the gameplay of these games any day

[@laserbeamlightning]

I really shouldn't be this optimistic about the series but granted, the movie has the potential to influence the games in a roundabout way much like the Marvel films have helped to streamline decades of conflated comic book source material. The Sonic film's impact here can't be understated. Kids and the new generation now like the character and it really took Sonic back to his roots with 90's throwbacks (even the buddy cop elements were from that era) as well as giving him a personality that made him feel cool yet cute which to me was always his appeal from 2D up till Heroes. Tim Miller and Jeff Fowler may have messed up the design initially but there was a real attempt to please the fans throughout and you could feel that the people who worked on the project enjoyed it. Maybe their passion will be called upon by Sonic Team but let's give it time to really see how it has affected that side of things.

[@nathancheung4019]

The progress of 2010-2019 was a literal waste.

[@AnyThingWorx]

What progress?

[@lynxfresh5214]

@@AnyThingWorx Exactly

[@donathan2933]

AnyThingWorx Archived exactly

[@cole_man.exe_2002]

2010-19 was the REAL Dark Age.

[@donathan2933]

@@cole_man.exe_2002 I agree, the 2005-09 "Dark age" wasn't even that bad. Good terrifying villains, characters did things, more heavy symbolism etc. The current age is the real dark age

[@kaidenwanna3209]

The dark age was better than this 2010 stuff. At least we got decent stories, good voice acting, and interesting gameplay mechanics. Atleast the games kept in mind it’s past and it’s story as a whole. Thinking about the sonic now compared to back to something like SA2 it’s just not the same character. From sonic now compared to unleashed it’s just not the same

[@DBMusicEX]

Agreed. As much as I love Colors and Generations despite being a Dreamcast/Dark Era Sonic nowadays just ain't the same especially with the stories and characters.

[@Bigslasha]

Seeing tails literally gaslight sonic to make him feel bad made me more mad than hearing shadow spam “damn” in his game

[@lpfan4491]

@@Bigslasha Which was a localization-thing anyhow.

[@bradley8575]

Generations and forces are not great games because there so Quick to finish j disinherited these games in less than 4 Hours and there very forgettable there just disappointing at least the 2000s sonic games were longer and they had more gameplay

[@yunsurfed6153]

are you seriously going to sit here and say shadow the hedgehog and 06 had good voice acting and stories. literally the worst part of sonic as a franchise were those two things. I distinctly remember everyone hate jason griffth as Sonics VA and wanted him gone, now everybody like him, what?

[@ToxicJames12]

The fact they made team sonic racing instead of sonic riders 4 is incredibly sad

[@kylecampbell565]

Well free Riders bombed in sales and Sega all stars racing sold better than any of the riders games

[@ToxicJames12]

@@kylecampbell565 the story and the game is just so shit compared to the original sonic riders and zero gravity

[@kylecampbell565]

ToxicJames13 I can agree on zero gravity but the story of the first Sonic Riders was bad. Yes it had some fun interactions but the game hinges on Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, And Amy giving up chaos emeralds to enter Eggman’s tournament. And before the second race Knuckles says “wonder what Eggman’s really after” as if the answer wasn’t obvious. Also Eggman doesn’t take advantage of having all 7 emeralds only swipping Jet’s cube

[@ToxicJames12]

@@kylecampbell565 yeah but that game actually had decent animated cutscenes not the crap we got in free riders

[@kylecampbell565]

ToxicJames13 true presentation took a big hint and was an introduction to shadow and Amy’s worst VAs but at least Omochao was the only one who feel for Eggman’s ruse in Free Riders.

[@peterparker1683]

The Dark Age of Sonic is the 2010s. The 2000s Sonic Games while had some blunders had far more balls when it came to pushing gameplay, themes, and storytelling. The 2010s however, suffered with mediocre boost gameplay, terrible stories, character assassinations, memes, and classic nostalgia pandering.

[@Chosen十七]

Out of all things this man chose to spit facts that’s the exact same way I feel

[@JoseGregorioValeroVillarroel]

Did you know that the Boost gameplay was created in 2005(The 1st year of the Dark Age)? With Sonic Rush. So, that "mediocre boost gameplay" assumption towards the 2010s is wrong.

[@TheFoxFromSplashMountain]

Being a Sonic fan is one heck of a roller-coaster. This series is so unpredictable it gives me anxiety.

[@jimmybob5541]

We just have to hope to god sega actually uses sonic mania and the movie in a good way. No more insane nostalgia pandering, and no more shitty stories and bland characters.

[@MicahBuzanANIMATION]

Knuckles is like Piccolo - once a rival and equal to the main character, now a joke to the series.

[@dragondelsur5156]

Burger King Piccolo

[@eliasnicolasmiranda4940]

funny because Piccolo at least get more respect than Knuckles

[@austinreed7343]

Knuckles is more like Yamcha, really.

[@ChiefMedicPururu]

They just want to cater to their haters nowadays so much that it has pretty much mutilated the franchise to an almost unrecognizable face. I just want games like the Adventure games to come back, maybe SEGA would get off their safe bubble...

[@_jiratena7113]

I couldn't agree more with the points being made here, and now that Sonic seems to be starting fresh with Prime, I'm cautiously optimistic that the Sonic of the "Dark" ages can make his triumphant return... dear god let this age well...

[@Milennin]

The meta era was the worst, nothing but failed jokes and cringe. At least the older games tried to do something cool and ambitious. The meta era was where they gave up.

[@hypershadix1]

I honestly thought sonic was going to be blacklisted by SEGA after the 2010’s and it made me worried that the very first game series that I played as a kid was getting ready to be Konamied

[@ps4ap_ballin672]

“What does this mean for Sonic” This just means that Sega will put their investments in the movies and continue their lack of efforts in the main Sonic games. Also means we are never ever getting a great, competitive Sonic Riders game

[@thechad7643]

I agree that the series chief weakness has been a lack of confidence from its handlers. They've got the ingredients to make something great. In fact I enjoy a lot of the recent games and think they are fun, but Sonic should be excellent and the people in charge of the brand just have no confidence or willingness to stick with a vision and work at it. They keep changing up the formula and thats been their Achilles heel.

[@DannyBenS94]

The 2010s (after Generations) was the true dark age of Sonic. Instead of having a mix of good and (not nearly as much as a lot of people say) bad games, where you could at least enjoy the good, we got mediocre throughout. Most of the good stuff from the 2010s with Sonic was outside the games.

[@jjc4924]

The only thing that was good about Sonic during 2010's ( besides Generations ) is Mania. Say what you will about it's lacking of originality or whatever. That game had more effort than any other Sonic games around 2010's ( once again, besides Generations ) that we have so far.

[@DannyBenS94]

@@jjc4924 I thought Mania was alright, but I can agree it did have a lot more effort put into it than most of the 2010 Sonic games.

[@SuperSonicWarrior93]

DarkSonic180 How did you react when they played Sonic Mania’s theme music in the Sonic movie?

[@SuperSonicWarrior93]

DarkSonic180 Were you hoping Crush 40 would’ve been involved?

[@SuperSonicWarrior93]

DarkSonic180 I kinda was hoping. Since they are a huge staple for Sonic music. But at least there was a Crush 40 Easter Egg.

[@flamingoodness4923]

God I miss when sonic was cool. The characters, the fun gameplay styles, the stories, set pieces, scope, ambition, it was all so cool! I remember the very first time I’ve ever seen sonic and co beating the hell out of robots in sonic heroes and zipping around at the speed of sound.....it was really cool... I eventually started trying the games out and eventually reached sonic advance 2, and cream and cheese ended up becoming my all time favorites. Sonic x was fun to watch because it had a mixture of fun energetic moments mixed in with serious plots going on. Remember that episode when sonic saved cream and cheese from the GUN base? I was jumping up and down like an idiot in excitement when I first saw that episode because it was just so exciting. Point is, sonic is gone, and he isn’t coming back. I’m hopeful for the next game, but I doubt it’s going to do anything I want. Who knows...maybe this next sonic game will kill my passion for the series permanently. It’s not like there’s much left here for me to enjoy. I fell in love with the series in the first place because of the characters. Chaos, shadow, the chao, cream, omega, knuckles, emerl/gemerl, I loved playing as these characters. But now that they’re gone, what’s the point for me?

[@flamingoodness4923]

Caleb Montes I watched the English version. I was around 10ish when I first saw it, and I have to admit the show had plenty of flaws...mainly Chris thorndyke being the worst fucking thing in existence. But even with it’s flaws, I just loved that damn show. My favorites will always be the first 3 episodes and the adventure ark

[@flamingoodness4923]

Caleb Montes nah....I’m hate watching shows in another language. Also not too big on anime. Sonic x and Kirby right back at ya were kinda my exception when I was little. But I know there was some cut stuff like one scene where vanilla had a picnic when the chaotix

[@WaterKirby1994]

Agreed completely when it comes to the characters & I also kind of prefer English Dubs for anime usually. Sonic hasn't been himself since people who weren't even fans hijacked the series in the aftermath of 06. They took advantage of Sega of America's incompetence & not exactly understanding their flagship series without Yuji Naka to explain it & managed to change the series into something it never should have been. Actual True Blue fans of the Sonic Series were betrayed in favor of accursed critics who wanted to see the series fail. Sega of Japan has been too preoccupied with the Yakuza series the past dozen years to even try to fix the messes that Sega of America made during that time.

[@austinreed7343]

IDW does have some of that passion.