Judith Butler: on COVID-19, the politics of non-violence, necropolitics, and social inequality

[@tormunnvii3317]

Very interesting. I love the framing in terms of Economic Health as an almost vampiric relation upon Biological Health, and the concept of Interdependence against the right-wing ideal of Independence and Individualism. Also, the discourse around non-violence is fascinating. Thanks for this Interview, it was very enlightening.

[@DippingAtoe]

A wonderful conversation thank thank you 😊

[@JLuck88]

Thank you so much for this chat!!!!

[@becksundgras]

what kind of chat is this were every person talks like 10 minutes? My ADHS kicks in too strong to keep following?...

[@growingmelancholy8374]

I liked the part where both scholars' privileges were called into question and where Butler was questioned about her May, 11, 2018 letter to NYU.

[@mindheartmouth]

What is the date of this talk?

[@bogeyworman6102]

Judith says "as of july" so probably a similar time of upload (1-24 July)

[@juankshalonga7190]

It is important to consider that the 'flattening the curve' was not designed to save lives, but to spread the numbers across a longer timeline. It is only a means of avoiding overwhelming the hospitals. Unfortunately, these measures always end in the same number of lost lives. And, unfortunately, deaths of despair from loss, and from the extra stress on mental health alone are a catastrophic addition to the tragedy.

[@larshalvorsen5990]

That's not quite right. Overwhelming hospitals lead to much higher death rates as there isn't enough resources to treat everyone. Flattening the curve would then lead to a lower death rate as more people can get treatment.

[@juankshalonga7190]

@@larshalvorsen5990 Point taken. If the hospitals are pushed beyond functionality, unnecessary deaths would occur, adding to the overall number that would have been the same otherwise. Still, the lockdowns going beyond flattening the curve won't save more lives, and demonstrably has been taking far more lives in extending lockdowns beyond curve flattening. So much that I would bet far more damage and loss of life has been caused locking down, than if they had let it overwhelm hospitals. Both outcomes are tragic. The best formula is to run at full hospital capacity as much as possible, locking down as little as possible. The deaths from the lockdowns are only beginning, and will ripple on for generations already. How many deaths does the doubling of world poverty cause? I think I should have said thr number of infections would be no different. My bad there.. it was 5 months ago.

[@juankshalonga7190]

@@stfngln Perhaps I didnt articulate that once the curve is flattened enough to not overwhelm hospitals, the same number of people will die. There seems to be a push to eradicate the virus by locking down, and that simply will not happen. What is happening, is the poorest become much poorer, and our future is being gutted, sucked out of the economy, with every local business dollar lost, straight to the corporations who buy up businesses or replace their services with walmart, amazon, etc.. it may seem less pressing than covid, but we are stuck the effects, including deaths of despair, suicides, education system halted, all social functions shut down longer term, etc. the pandemic will pass, enslavement ala technocratic surveillance tyranny, will not. jussayin

[@uncleskipsprairiejustice9367]

not exactly. It is easier to keep people alive in a hospital that is NOT overcrowded, i.e. when health services are accessible to more people, thus treatment can be provided earlier and with more efficacy. Flattening the curve does little to reduce the absolute # of infections, but certainly reduces the # of fatalities. And what was the alternative?

[@tcmackgeorges12]

What about Fanon? How does butlers analysis stand up against, Fanon’s analysis of violence, which itself is also very Marxist and Hegelian?

[@memel9514]

KZbin should've shown me this long ago

[@indonesiamenggugat8795]

Great show, Amia. Warm hug for you and Judith. Best wishes from indonesia

[@tayouhanzatsu5347]

Sounds like your notion of interdependence(y) is purely prescriptive. What I'm particularly struggling with it your description is whether this can be turned around to say 'this hurts me more than you' while you stab someone. It also sounds you would be well off taking a course on data visualisation, instead of projecting so much on the line as an abstract object.

[@Questioner365]

"Nothing is more Capitalist Monopoly than Communism." - Jonathan Alder

[@draftnotion]

I'm 30 minutes in and so far I am a little underwhelmed. I was hoping it would have expanded a bit more on Foucault's biopolitics and how it was applied in a statistical mode of governance, but they instead seem to be taking their time linking ideas of violence and slow-killing in a very roundabout way - with some currents of social inequality and anti-capitalism sprinkled in. I was hoping for a lecture but they are just reading their essay and speak in a really stilted way, and the writing isn't even as poetic as I think they believe. Perhaps they will develop this into something deeper but I am not engaged enough to have the patience of gambling another 36 minutes to close the heurmeneutic circle. I would much rather description provided a link to the text she is flipping through rather than pushing for book sales. A little ironic considering "the death drive at the heart of the capitalist machine". Watching this literally felt like it was draining the health from my body.

[@johnsonjr.butalon3374]

Say Hi if you see this

[@russeljohnduetiz4667]

Hi HAHAHAHAHA

[@gregoryallen0001]

this is so sad

[@joanginsberg9604]

No agendaspeak here then!

[@grayarcana]

The resort to violence closes minds on partisan lines: the advance of the Radical can only begin by the opening of minds. Thereafter, the flow of events may engulf a polity in violence: violence is the risk the Radical must run, however averse to violence one may wisely be.

[@thesacredvowsdrsamirvyas2938]

Non-violence is non-existent in western philosophy.East has lived and walked the path for eons,indic civilisation has many of examples like Buddha,Mahavir and Gandhi.

[@khwiik4706]

This is simply not true. Erasmus of Rotterdam and Jesus just to give two examples

[@DorotheaAntonio]

There was the Fabian Society (a group of intellectual socialist in London in 1880) who preferred a gradual, non-violent socialist revolution rather than the violent revolution Marx was endorsing.

[@no-tg4me]

Ah yes Jesus. Everyone's favorite westerner.