Just WHAT Is Cloud Strife?! THEORY/SPECULATION!

Just WHAT Is Cloud Strife?! THEORY/SPECULATION!
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#FF7R #ff7rebirth #finalfantasyviirebirth

[@miki49]

While I hear you, I actually really hate this take. Cloud stands up for more than just a threat to the planet, but a threat to those he loves and those he CHERISHES. Cloud is special yes, but because of what he stands for in being a person who comes from nothing and becoming something, through experience and growth, through his connection to the happenings of the Nibelheim incident, not because he’s “chemically built like Sephiroth”. That’s what made the OG feel so human. We can all relate to Cloud. We can all put ourselves in those shoes, learn from our mistakes, grow, and be that underdog that rises and surprises all who didn’t believe. And the OG clearly mentions how he was given the jenova cell/mako induction treatment combo. Now if you’re saying the FF7R project will try to explain him as such, I really hope not. They don’t need to get into all that. Maybe a little here and there, but I think this just misses the point and changes things far too much.

[@PhantomyreValentine]

Love these theories-- so good to finally get FF7 content from all of the FF7 content creators after such a long drought. It's gonna be a wild couple years.

[@wyattlewis7428]

It’s always been odd how Cloud was strong enough to take on Sephiroth all those years ago. I really dig this take!

[@chainclaw07]

Imo, one of the core aspects of Cloud is that he is just a kid, the any man. Cloud stabbed Sephiroth in the back when he was distracted. Not much of an overpowerment of sephiroth. THEN in the game its made a point that Cloud cant resist sephiroths manipulation because of the jenova cells in his body. Only through the lifestream dip does Cloud WORK to be free of sephiroths influence by cementing his identity. He is a Hero solely based on that he worked to overcome, no nature/circumstances of his existence made him strong or a hero. This theory is really cool beside that.

[@RayCoffman]

It’s more specifically referencing the moment where Cloud overpowers Sephiroth and chucks him into the Lifestream. Sephiroth even asks what Cloud is.

[@chainclaw07]

@@RayCoffman ah ok, I get that. However by then Sephiroth is almost bisected and Cloud drawing upon hysterical strength( the phenomenon that exists in reality ) would still enforce that Cloud is just human but Sephiroth in his arrogance doesn't recognise that humans can be that strong without enhancement, surprising him. I really like the theory if not for it would undermine what I wrote earlier by enforcing that things done to Cloud is where he got his strength from. I would even accept that his lineage, either from his dad or his mom is like half ancient and the theory applies but not because of circumstance of malicious intent but rather of WHO he descends from. Which admittedly still takes away the lesson of anyone can find strength to overcome evil.

[@elizabethjack5312]

I agree, I like the idea that Cloud is just a dude.

[@miki49]

@@RayCoffmanStill disagree. He’s just a driven person who saw his mother die, the same who wanted to grow strong to protect those he cherishes (promise to Tifa) and had a large imagination to overcome and be great. Almost too large an imagination. Definitely more of an everyman. Trying to make him have common ground with Sephiroth’s origin of creation actually cheapens that. And adds so much unnecessary convolution just for the sake of it. Cloud surprised those who never believed in him or saw him coming. He was always there, but he just had trouble showing it until he was finally unleashed.

[@resetbutton7982]

I love this theory. Whether you agree with it or not, you cannot deny there is something special about Cloud that separates him.

[@gogauze]

Honestly, you've got me on board with some version of this. Cloud's always been the canonical powerhouse-the critical piece to chopping off the head of the snake called Sephiroth-starting with the OG FF7. And he goes toe to toe with Soldiers on the regular. I'm beginning to suspect that Roche was inserted where he was, in Part 1, because they wanted to make it clear that a juiced up, 2nd Class Soldier isn't really a problem at this early stage in the hero's journey. We've never gotten a real answer for why it needs to be Cloud, and I'm with you on willpower or resolve being an insufficient explanation.

[@deltasyn7434]

In DofC, they retconned Ifalna's time with Shinra stating that she met Gast at Shinra. Which indicates she was captive before Aerith was born. This means the would have had access to Ifalna's DNA much sooner. My suspicion is that Hollander used that in his 'delecate balance' for project G.

[@thomasharvey1151]

I always enjoy all of the various theories that have come about within FF7. Though I also like the idea of Cloud just being Cloud. The idea that an average boy growing up as a social outcast, weak, bullied, possibly in poverty..can have a fire ignited within him and grow up to do great things. Can grow up to be much more than what everyone told him he could be. Sure, he had Jenova cells within him, giving him physical strength. But he brought down Sephiroth as a teenager before this, just by the pain and rage of his mother’s murder, his home being razed to the ground, Tifa being wounded as she was..when Cloud was run through and he refused to let it end as such, mustered all of his strength and threw Sephiroth over the railing and into the life stream, that was willpower. When the question gets asked as to what is Cloud..my mind’s immediate answer is that Cloud is strength of will. Believing in oneself. In the onset of FF7, Cloud is able to stand toe to toe against anything and everything because he believes that he can(has the physical strength to back it up due to Jenova cells) but he isn’t aware of that. He fully believes he’s that bada** Soldier 1st Class. The theme is present all throughout. The later story was basically all about Sephiroth’s Will battling over Cloud’s. He loses his way whenever he realizes his memory was a lie, he reverts back to being the weak and taunted boy in his own mind but is pulled back by everyone believing in him and believing in himself again. In Advent Children it’s the same, he felt lost. Like he failed. Everyone gives him their encouragement, reminds him of who he is, who he is to them. He’s told “No giving up”. He regains that will to fight and overcomes. I always felt like that last fight with Sephiroth in AC, where he tells him to stay in his memories where he belongs..that was the moment he truly surpassed Sephiroth. Literally tells him that he is nothing to him but a memory. Completely asserting his dominance over him. His strength of will over Sephiroth’s. This is why I believe that the Remake is Sephiroth trying to change the past. He can’t beat the Cloud that has been through the events of FF7 and AC. So he’s trying to fight the Cloud that is still susceptible to manipulation. It won’t surprise me if we see two Sephiroths in the next game. One from present day and the one who’s interfering in time.

[@Phantomyre]

I think Hojo left Nibelheim before Cloud was conceived because in Before Crisis, he makes a comment about how he was excited to go back to that facility in Nibelheim after so many years. So timewise, it would make more sense that he did something to Cloud when he obtained his comatose body verses being injected. Other than that, I do find it plausible that there's a possibility that he has Ifalna cells.

[@redxhabanero]

Love your channel, Ray, and your theory-crafting. Keep it up! This one is intriguing (seriously, I love your theories!), but I think this one would be detrimental to Zack's character and the connection between Aerith and Cloud. For Aerith is initially drawn to Cloud because Cloud reminds her of Zack, which is of too great plot significance as it sets up the red herring of Cloud and Aerith's relationship (the idea of a 'romance' which is a trick on the narrative's part to keep the player distracted from the truth about Cloud and Tifa), as well as playing up Cloud's Soldier image - as Aerith is in a sense recreating her memories with Zack while encouraging Cloud to keep playing Soldier (the 'date' and park parallels between OG and CC, for example.). Have you read Traces of Two Pasts? If not, I highly recommend checking out at least the Tifa portion for explanations about Nibelheim, its relation to Shinra, and a bit about Claudia too. It might answer some of your questions actually! Anyhow, keep up the awesome work :D Looking forward to your next video.

[@shaynee.9378]

Nice theory! I think it stands to reason that they would want to make as many ancients as they could with Ifalna's dna, Cloud may have been the only one that was successful

[@CustardBustard]

I feel like Cloud's triumph over his own issues and Sephiroth's BS is tied to the theme of his character. The fact that it stands out in the game and seems to make little sense is actually intentional. The admission of truth, knowing oneself and believing in oneself in the face of overwhelming odds is what can change the world for the better. And can also help you survive getting impaled and throwing people off bridges n shit.

[@tiltedhaze]

Aerith is attracted to Cloud because his Jenova cells are mimicking Zack. She later grows to love Cloud for who he is but her initial attraction was always his similarities with Zack.

[@Brahmsonite]

I don't think Marlene is an Ancient. At some point they say that people stopped listening to the Planet, but they still could if they opened themselves up. I think Marlene embodies the connection to the Planet that is possible through innocence.

[@serenavox5540]

This is such a cool take! I’ve wondered since I played OG way back when how the hell Cloud managed to beat Sephiroth and how he was able to fight like a SOLDIER even though he never actually was.

[@chrisdillon8376]

You're gonna ruin the day of a lot of shippers with this one

[@countquackula8539]

Agreed I never found any romantic element between Cloud and Aerith. To me it was more infatuation or friendship. And who knows, maybe you're right about them being related to your theory, which makes sense in a way.

[@saphiresray]

Interesting take, but I'm gonna stick with my theory That Cloud and Seph are half brother-Father and Rufus and Cloud are 1st cousins- mom

[@putrahardjono4409]

I really love your theories and have watched all your theory videos. However, there are several counter argument for this video theory: 1. "Cloud power is only activated against Sephiroth": In FF7 Before the Crisis, Cloud have shown his strength to the Turks (Shotgun) as he could carry huge sword despite being a grunt. 2. "No romance with Aerith": - In Novella: The maiden who travels the planet. It is stated that Aerith chooses Cloud over Zack and loves him more. (It's written by Benny Matsuyama). - In Novella: On the way to smile: Life Stream White: Aerith stated that Cloud is her Koibito (Lover). (It's written by Kazushige Nojima aka FF7 Original Author). 3. "Sephiroth will take over Cloud body": In the interview (I forgot from where I read it): It is stated that: Sephiroth is exist because Cloud is alive. So long as Cloud is alive, Sephiroth will never cease to exist. So, I think Sephiroth will try to protect Cloud. However, I am not sure for Jenova Sephiroth. (This is just my opinion)

[@countquackula8539]

Those novels aren't canon or confirmed to be real, just different perspectives or what ifs. And with Rebirth taking a different approach, who knows what kind of romantic angle, if any, will be added to the game.

[@putrahardjono4409]

@@countquackula8539 Novella: On the way to smile is canon and It is written by Kazushige Nojima. He is the author of FF7 OG and FF7 Remake. The story takes place after FF7 OG and before FF7 Advent Children. If you have read the novella, you will have a better understanding on the story of FF7 Remake. Also, it is the starting point of FF7 Remake.

[@countquackula8539]

@putrahardjono4409 I read this a long time ago. That novella may be canon, but it never confirms who Cloud loves. Tifa and Cloud had big moments of love and care in her episode. But again, nothing was confirmed. Just like Advent Children, Clouds guilt was mistaken for love for Aerith. Sure, he cared for her, but nothing romantic. The ending of that movie gave Cloud a release of a guilty conscience. At the end of the day, this is done on purpose they don't want to confirm a ship.

[@putrahardjono4409]

@@countquackula8539 That's right, the novella never confirms who Cloud loves. I think the way we perceived as a "Romantic" seems completely different. In TIfa story, I feel bad for her because she does not understand how to properly communicate with Cloud and Cloud's ghosting her. She deserve someone better than Cloud. On the other hand, in Lifestream White, Aerith confirms Cloud as her Lover (Koibito).

[@countquackula8539]

@putrahardjono4409 Yeah, it doesn't mean they were in a relationship or had a romance. It could be defined as Aerith expressing interest or falling for Cloud. If they truly wanted to confirm that ship, they would've made it more obvious instead of just beating around the bush. Same with Tifa. Also, Cloud ghosting her doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't care or love her. He's does everything for Tifa, even clues into his feelings. During this time, he was going through so much that he felt he wasn't ready or good enough for her and was going through complications within himself. But again, they don't take their relationship very far. The devs don't want to verify a ship because they will upset a portion of the fanbase. They succeeded in marketing the ship. They know it. It's one element that makes people want to see more of this game. I wouldn't be surprised if in the new storyline there were 2 timelines with 2 Clouds, and he ended up with each girl. 😅

[@CyberSex]

Yeah it’s interesting how after playing FF7 so many times, there are still so many holes in the story. Cloud could really have some crazy deep backstory.

[@maggiebrinkley4760]

Aerith was 20 days old when Hojo came visiting at Icicle Inn, according to Prof Gast's private video. (I played that section of the o.g. a couple of days ago.) I have played FF7 countless times, and that bit still upsets me. Poor Gast! Poor Ifalna! Poor Aerith! How I despise Hojo!!!!!

[@maggiebrinkley4760]

PS I've often wondered if Cloud's Dad was President Shinra. Nibelheim=Shinra Town. Claudia=beautiful Shinra employee. Pres Shinra=nasty, entitled, powerful, ruthless, horrible man! QED?

[@emptymelodies3316]

Super interesting theory! I like it

[@marbarosi]

I think it's more. They recreated Jenova in Genisis and Sephiroth. With Aerith she's half Ancient. With cloud I'd imagine you're right saying he's the key to creation. That he is likely Half Jenova and Ancient. I also believe his memory is hazy for a key reason and not what it leads on. Perhaps something happened to cloud when he was a child. That he just wanted to live a normal life, which his mother tried to push him towards. One thing though I'll end with is I think Sephiroth is good. I think the Seph we know, is actually Jenova. I think she took over his mind and body.

[@blountman747]

Been waiting for ray to break it down

[@Pparty_Gaming]

Is this a cut from the live stream? I couldn’t make that one ! Either way I’ll watch this one soon.

[@RayCoffman]

Yep. It’s the theory part. For those that wanted to watch VOD I made this abridged version.

[@BankkeyAoshi]

💪🏾💙

[@trip30s]

love the theory but let me add this : Aerith has to die because she knows about Tifa making Cloud whole again. The purpose is that the lifestream needs that to happen to make Cloud a Weapon..aka Ruby ect. The twist could be that Zack has to make a choice to sacrifice Aerith or Tifa. Just spit balling but damn can not wait to find out.

[@JMartini810]

No wayyyyy lmfao You also believe in one timeline and that is just false... Like I don't know how much info you need.. I'll be here in 8 months to say I told you so lmao

[@knman0010]

Naaaaaahhhh...truth is president Shinra is clouds dad... no doubt about it. Cloud is a failed experiment to make a Shinra successor... rufus is the successful experiment. Hit me up if you wanna hear the rest of the truth.