Justice League: The Giffen, DeMatteis & Maguire Years

[@MrHeretrix]

THIS is the Justice League that I want to see James Gunn do. Personally one of my all time favorite comic runs.

[@GrizzledNoob]

There is no way they could make a movie that truly captures the beauty of that comic series. Not even Gunn could pull that one off. Although, what the hell, let them try. I would absolutely go see it anyway!!

[@mayotango1317]

​@@GrizzledNoobWhy not? The MCU movies copy that.

[@FangsFirst]

Oof. Gunn has... Such a great history of directly adapting the way characters were previously written after all...

[@nwoking666]

That would work for Gunn's Universe.....I'd like to see that as well now that you mention it.

[@Yousef15-t7z]

​​​@@FangsFirstl mean for unknowns like the guardians and peacemaker you don't need to be comic accurate as possible to these unknowns so you can definitely have your own spin on unknown characters but l think gunn knows that a character like superman should be comic accurate as possible

[@notsosmartguy6254]

I think Geoff John's making Maxwell Lord a villain was bad idea, I liked this more morally ambiguous Ultimately on the good side version of the character.

[@minaverry]

The moment I saw Max Lord shooting Blue Beetle in the head is when I finally stop caring about DC.

[@psykomancer4420]

Possibly his worst idea yet. It was so juvenile, like a middle schooler's idea of a cool twist.

[@Getwright-]

Completely agree. Original maxwell had so many places he can work in an interesting way within a story. Villian max was so one note

[@juniorjames7076]

@@minaverry The book had looooong jumped the shark by then, for me.

[@oneshot2139]

Johns has a knack for oversimplifying interesting ideas until he’s sucked out everything that was good about the original idea

[@kfcfamousbowl]

the best justice league run, full stop.

[@bruhb7611]

Behind JLA of course.

[@Getwright-]

100 percent.

[@fnkyron]

One of the best runs in cape comics. It is just delightful. The "bwa-ha-ha-ha" is one of my favorite gags that isn't much of a gag, just that they all laugh so uproariously at things. I love how silly everything is, there's always that missing piece in cape comics, and like you said, it's "behind-the-scenes". It's the idea of yknow, what is everyone else doing when there's no huge stuff happening? I'd love to see you take on Rucka's original WW run, including Hiketia, and the 2016 run which is very similar but mainly Rucka saying to DC, "I'll fix it one last time but don't break it this time." Love it. Love the video. Love the channel. Love this run.

[@sebastianquispeluza7640]

Man, my favorite comics related channel talking about my favorite comic

[@benjamincollinson7253]

Exactly what I thought. Literally stopped me scrolling.

[@georgesdrouillard3061]

This channel is pretty great!

[@jimgillespie6109]

How could you forget to at least mention Adam Hughes?! He was, perhaps, the only artist who could have successfully followed in Maguire's artistic footsteps.

[@espurious]

Hughes' run on that book is my favourite work of his

[@dfcsons]

I think my fave issue was the one where BG and BB became super powered repo men. Absolute jackasses....And I love them to this day. Love this overview, top notch stuff!

[@Murdock_the_Pooch]

The way you describe this series reminds me of Garth Ennis’ Hitman series in terms of how comedy & characterization take priority over the threat of the book. I’d highly recommend it.

[@Getwright-]

Hit man is amazing. If you like it and haven’t checked out Major Bummer it also had that vibe if being fully a superhero comic (with all the big dynamic craziness that entails) while also being completely more about the actual characters as a family/ friend group.

[@Zod.the.Merciless]

@@Getwright- Major Bummer was fantastic. There was also a great comic "Young Heroes in Love" that also fits into this style. Sadly short lived though.

[@juliolopez6289]

One of my favorite League iterations.The writing,humor,cast,each felt like a real individual.A friend and I still talk about them every once and a while.

[@jessewilley531]

I've talked to J.M. DeMatteis a few times. He said Watchmen DID impact their approach. Once they found out they couldn't most big-name heroes (apart from Batman) they needed to do something different. DeMatteis liked the idea of Watchmen but wasn't fond of the nihilism of it. He wanted to do something that was sort of the antidote to what most superhero books were doing at the time and Watchmen in particular... extreme positivity to counter the darkness of the world. And there was a difference between the first and second half of their run (and their later collabs). When they started they didn't talk often. Later he and Giffen would go to lunch once or twice a month when they would work together. Not only that... the unlikely friendship between Booster Gold and Blue Beetle in many ways grew from their own friendship. But the word I would use to describe to any Giffen and DeMatteis comic is Bwhahahahaha!

[@panthergod]

What Bendis wishes to be..

[@AllPwrflSteve]

@@Adam-nz3ix Also Bendis ignores continuity sometimes within his own story. Take Secret Invasion. Elektra reverts to her skrull form when she dies, but Skrull Mockingbird was killed in front of the Avengers, buried, and even had her soul reach out to Hawkeye in hell (comics) and kept her human form throughout all of it. Also Scarlet Witch becomes an evil god for no reason.

[@residentgrigo4701]

The best JLA run.

[@22freedom33]

How come this channel has only 16k subs? Trully the most informative comic channel on KZbin

[@Iznikroc]

without a doubt the most underrated comics youtube channel

[@zombiehampster1397]

One of my all time favorite comics, JLI shaped my youth and the writing....so fantastic, absolutely hiliarious. Way ahead of the game. Ambush Bug! I used to read that too. An old favorite for me, absolutely absurd.

[@chrismedford2819]

Loved this. My fave bit was when Batman took out Guy Gardner with one punch and Black Canary was devastated she missed it. Another great run was the first issues of Justice League Europe. Similar banter and humour with Captain Atom leading the team.

[@VerveQuest-zc4ri]

This was one of the only DC comics I got into back as a kid. It was like the Claremont X-Men and 70s Avengers in that it showed the downtime banter and relationships I loved. Without it, there are no stakes to the action.

[@DoomMomDot]

this is my favorite run of Justice League, no question. at a time when everybody was trying to do Watchmen, it dared to be different. and I loved it.

[@ivane5110]

When this series came out I wasn't in the frame of mind to appreciate it; I had just seen a chunk of my childhood (DC's Silver & Bronze Ages) literally wiped out by Crisis. So these, Miller's, Moore's, Byrne's and Perez's amazing mid/late-80's work weren't something I could stomach for even a single issue. I'm still never going to have any fond memories of them, but (finally) I can totally see how that generation would.

[@luciferfernandez7094]

This series was basically a sit-com, and I loved it.

[@Richard-x2p]

Guy Gardner is THE Green Lantern.

[@WalterLiddy]

I never did collect this title (more of a Marvel fan), but everyone was aware of the Batman/Gardner fight. It was the event of the year.

[@AlienIOIandroktone]

Glad to see you cover JL International

[@kirbymarchbarcena]

This is my fave version of the Justice League

[@Getwright-]

Another favorite of mine (Which im sure you’ve probably read) was “Major Bummer” it also was a balance of being fully committed to being a super hero comic book (All the tropes) while being completely not about anything other that an interesting friend group and there crazy subculture. Also the art was by the great doug manke who is still one of hte modern day masters (especially at expression)

[@mahmudmurad4655]

This Justice League is the best JLA. Especially with the art of Kevin McGuire and Adam Hughes. In tone, the only other comic that sometimes remember me of this approach is some of the work of Peter David in The Incredible Hulk and Captain Marvel.

[@traviscreason1911]

Nothing else like this run! Sooooooo glad it’s getting some love😍👍

[@rackstraw]

Obligatory BWAH-HA-HA!! This run was a much needed contrast to the grim and gritty trend during the 1990s. Give me this over the Clone Saga any day.

[@ChrisLawton66]

Nice job on this.

[@tonyvarela7812]

The expressions of the characters and the panel beats of this series remind me of a Love and Rockets comic I have. So GREAT

[@Maxwell03]

Justice League Detroit is still my favorite Justice League. It's like something out of Canon Films.

[@espurious]

That's a great comparison

[@DutchZippy]

I read this run when it came out and loved it. It was like the opposite of Watchmen, but nearly as good.

[@vicaldama9314]

The" Mr miracle/ miracle mister" bit is a classic for me!

[@seandarbe2521]

This is one of my favorite runs of any comic ever, I think of it as Super Hero workplace comedy, with more serious arches being black comedy more then drama.

[@volitanto]

Love the "ten minutes into the future" intro :)

[@juniorjames7076]

I had never laughed so hard in my life reading a comic book! His work on this book, and the Ambush Bug mini-series made Keith Giffen, in my eyes, the funniest writer working in comics. And screw that, his artwork (plagiarism for not) was amazing and remains a unique favorite of mine. I was also happy to finally see DC use characters from the Global Guardians (Fire and Ice, Jack O'Lantern, etc) who really hadn't been seen since the late 1970s. Like all things, it eventually jumped the shark hard by the mid to late '90s but it was a great ride while it lasted!

[@RothurThePaladin]

Still one of my favorite runs

[@ILBrownDawg]

I don't know if it's on purpose or by accident, but I love how your voice, the recording quality, and intro all remind me of those old slide shows with the audio tapes they use to make us watch in grade school in the 80's. I keep waiting for the tone that indicates that you are supposed to click the button for the next slide.

[@artwithmichael5547]

Hero Squared and Planetary Brigade by Giffen and DeMatteis were also great.

[@patriciooliver]

Peter David x-factor has a similar concept

[@uncannydcmarvelous5732]

That's the one were he made Multiple Man a great character?

[@luciferfernandez7094]

Good call

[@ottosixtysix8546]

Ever since I found your channel on KZbin, I've been waiting for you to share your thoughts about this book. Once again you've done a great job of contrasting the good and the bad, the highs and the lows of this IMPORTANT series as done by Keith Giffen and crew. It stands as a marker for others as to just how the mix of the right creators with the right characters can be a joy month after month after month after month.... Thank you for this perfect reflection on a most beloved (by me anyway) series of comic books.

[@OnlineMasterPlayer]

Is everything alright? Hope you are doing well, just noticed you haven't uploaded a while.

[@mobyt.3900]

nice video. Peter David's "X factor" employed a similar comedic character interplay, I highly recommend it.

[@uncannydcmarvelous5732]

The government-sponsored mutant team that made Multiple Man a fan favorite?

[@sebastian5040]

X-Statix by Milligan and Allred also does the reality-TV show, low stakes superhero thing with it's characters. I highly recommend it!

[@TheJohnnyCalifornia]

Have you covered Grant Morrison's JLA? I think that really started the era of superheroes that led to The Authority and The Ultimates and finally Marvel's movies. I think it was strongly built on Giffen-Dematteis-Maguire's work as well.

[@Grogeous_Maximus]

Thanks for another awesome video. The videos still sometimes don't seem leveled - the intro is a good deal louder than your voice?

[@zakattack8624]

I bought the first 3 issues of Justice League 87' as an 11 year old during my first few times visiting a comic book shop. Naturally, I was driven towards the Archie Sonic comics, but I had always been a DC kid who loved Batman. As a toddler, I would sometimes watch the Justice League cartoon when I visited friends. That's what inspired me to spend what I earned cleaning an office. Today, with a real job and being a college student, I've been collecting each issue. I have around 65 issues spanning from issue 1-95 with the first issue of JLE, some annuals and quarterlies. I want to have the whole series in individual comics instead of the omnibus collection. It's addictive and rewarding.

[@espurious]

I love, love, love this series. It's great that it's been collected for a modern audience.

[@Paquinero]

Thank you for making this video. This version of the Justice League is one of my all time favorites.

[@muttjones222]

A couple years ago, I really got hooked on this series and I credit that mostly to its feeling of a laid back/understated/relaxed tone. The art wasn’t dynamic in conventional superhero fashion except in the expressions. All the characters looked soft and clean and the writing reflected that. It’s something akin to a modern sitcom without the laugh track where these people treated superhero work as a day job; some took it more serious than others while the actual stakes weren’t really that high. The reader knew these characters would be fine at the end of the day so why not just hang out with them for awhile. The best way I’d describe this series would be “soft.” Its uncomplicated, not really serious, but it’s nice.

[@heroineburgh]

This was a memorable, hilarious run, also sometimes quite sexy. You forgot to put Justice League Europe in the description. We have a good amount of these titles and continue to enjoy re-reading them. Strong analysis! (p.s. we miss Maya)

[@Rangersly]

By far, my favorite Justice League!

[@s2735]

another great video. also, please: the definitive history of guy gardner. only you could do it justice

[@Getwright-]

I love the warrior version of gardner where he ran a bar and fir some reason kyle ryner was one of the only people he kind of liked

[@anthonyperdue3557]

The Jaime Hernandez touch in Love and Rockets comes to mind as does a couple of old school comic strips : Gus Arriola's Gordo (the 50s and early 60s period) and Walt Kelly's Pogo (also 50s and 60s story arcs). The banter between the critters of Okefenokee Swamp would fit in with Blue Beetle and Booster Gold's dialogue.

[@krisscanlon4051]

Very good narrative so high end which is so endearing. JLA during this era needed this docu type style

[@sitoudien9816]

Loved this series. It didn't take itself too seriously. Felt like I was reading a sitcom.

[@martezdetroit3164]

You r so right.

[@sitoudien9816]

@@martezdetroit3164 Too bad she hulk tv show couldn't be as good as JL

[@Toracube]

As a kid i gave this a pass as too lightweight... Now i absolutely love it.... How wrong i was....

[@rolandkatsuragi]

I'm surprised such a successful series done by three people had such little interaction with each other

[@doyscherr]

Keith Giffen followed Steve Gerber on Defenders and I wonder if that run influenced Keith's approach to writing Justice League.

[@cesaraugustorgz]

Love your video man, this was my fav. run on the Justice League. greetings from Bogotá - Colombia.

[@bjd3707]

Great job! I was too young to understand how important creative teams were back then. I actually learnt that lesson by the Giffen and DeMetteis run ending - it got pretty rough after that before the reboot. When all the big heroes came back eventually it was great - I had to read old comics to see the team together up to that point - but it was never quite the same as this run. But I do agree that the banter got too much. I have no active memory of there being a course correction so there you go.

[@billygarcia9885]

Just got into your channel two days ago! Do the history of Plastic Man!

[@agenolmedina9159]

I loved this JL era. Late 80s!

[@JoePescisAngryCousin]

Hope everything is going well.

[@unrulysimian3897]

Ahhhh. Been saving this vid for a rainy day. I was all in on DC post Crisis - to the point where the only Marvel title on my pull was Avengers. This was the (non indy) book I looked forward to the most. Great overview and breakdown.

[@Clarkthek]

8:50 Oreo!?!?!? How dare you sir! I demand a retraction!

[@djobiwan47]

One of my favorites. Maguire's art was so different and quickly put him on my ever-changing list of favorite artists.

[@paperweight57]

Best review of JLI on KZbin

[@qwellen7521]

If your looking for something similar; try Matt Fractions Hawkeye run, seminal in Modern Marvel, the artstyle is gorgeous and focused, and Its tone is quotes similar, with a bigger focus on the day to day of the superhero life vs the endless grimmdark.

[@terskatti4994]

DC has two JLI softcover collections which both have over 500 pages. If you don't want to throw money on omniboos then those are terriffic value.

[@nwoking666]

Fun story. I met Mr. Giffen and Mr. Maguire on separate occasions at NYCC 2004 and had them sign my copy of Justice League #5. I told each of them that they were why I got into comics as a fan/collector. They gave the same response: "So you're blaming us?" I later relayed the story to JM DeMatteis probably 15 years later on Twitter and he pretty much said that sounds about right.

[@sweeneezy]

Have you ever read Automatic Kafka by Joe Casey and Ashley Wood? I think it'd really appeal to you and is a great example of a series getting cut off too soon but ending strong

[@fnkyron]

"ONE PUNCH!!"

[@DaiAtlus79]

9:58 Kahn & L-Ron inspired Zapp Brannigan & Kiff from Futurama, i swear.... also, the dc show Legend of Tomorrow feels heavily influenced by these series

[@Maxwell03]

You should check out Gerard Jones (yeah, yeah I know) and Chuck Wojtkiewicz Justice League. It was the last run before the Morrison - Porter relaunch. It captures the spirit of the original JLI and Wojtkiewicz's art is amazing, very indicative of Michael Golden. Don't let the controversies surrounding Jones stop you from checking out this underrated gem.

[@sonofsound]

Another gem! My brother totally bought these books when I was a kid. I remember hating them for not having enough action, so this pays them off rather well. I wonder if the JL books were not also slightly borrowing from the vibe of Love and Rockets and other indie titles that gave super-powered folks a "home life" kinda feel?

[@patrickkelly9275]

Great video

[@ailenrivera862]

Thank you

[@pacotorres5968]

the two things i love about this version of the justice league is that it was kinda of laid back on being dark and gritty and the other was they made animal man really funny before here was part of vertigo

[@uncannydcmarvelous5732]

Before Morrison's run?

[@pacotorres5968]

actually it was in the middle of Morrison's run, animal man's frist appearance with the league was between the release of animal man issue #8 until he was part of the league in JLI #24 and his last moments with the league was animal man #19 and after he was permanently was off the team in JLE #21.

[@georgesdrouillard3061]

This era is on my reading bucket list.

[@adamcoxworthy9373]

Comparing the initial lineup to the characters the series is best known for, it seems like the idea was for the new League to be sort of an all-star spotlight for the new combined DC universe: Doctor Fate, Captain Marvel, Blue Beetle, and Mister Miracle (who's oddly absent from Legends, even though that series features the New Gods) were each the most popular non-duplicate character from their respective universe at the time. I think putting all of these formerly off-limits characters on the League might have been a way of introducing somewhat bigger names to replace all of the missing classics, but instead, Giffen and DeMatteis leaned more towards unused characters that they could do whatever they wanted with.

[@upyours192]

Though obviously different, I felt Gail Simone's Welcome to Tranquility meets that search for something similar.

[@hillbillyhippy]

I would love to see a video on G'nort, the canine Green Lantern.

[@christopherwilson3754]

I was almost exclusively a Marvel guy most of my life until I saw these comics. They were so different and funny without being ridiculous (given they had people running around in funny clothes, but I digress) they got me reading more DC.

[@kevinnevada5342]

This book was special.

[@maximusprime3459]

I really liked this run. I wish DC would finish the collected volumes. They stopped at 6 I think and the last story was a cliffhanger. I really dont want to track down all the individual issues.

[@unrulysimian3897]

They've published two Omnis of this. ☮️

[@maximusprime3459]

@@unrulysimian3897 I dont have money to burn to buy those expensive omnis either. They should've stuck with the trades like they're doing with Titans.

[@maximusprime3459]

They also only covered the same material instead of stretching it out into the same amount of volumes of the tpb's

[@squirrel9407]

I still live in hope for G'nort : The Motion Picture

[@bruhb7611]

Hoping for you to one day cover the JLA book as well. Especially under Kelly and Morrison despite your views of the guy :)

[@sethleoric2598]

I wish Max lord didn't end up as a supervillain, i'd rather him be a kind of sloozy businessman who liked the league.

[@aurahoneydew9607]

Of someone is looking for something like this should check out Invincible or even the show SuperMansion.

[@markshulusky6680]

Sounds like a spiritual descendant of Steve Gerber's DEFENDERS, my favorite superhero book of all time.

[@gedeonnunes5626]

I was reading this one recently and it wasn't really doing it for me :c The jokes didn't land, I'd read the same lines again and again to see if I was missing something, but it wasn't clicking. Not that I thought it problematic or anything like it, It might be a matter of personal taste. But I'm willing to give it another chance after your video!!!!!

[@StrangeBrainParts]

It is something you have to be in the mood for, I believe. And, you know what? It may be something that doesn't suit your tastes. That's quite fine, too. :)

[@sahilhossian8212]

Lore of Justice League: The Giffen, DeMatteis & Maguire Years momentum 100

[@luvuyonobadula40]

What a nostalgic trip. I loved Justice League. I grew very fond of this team, even Guy Gardner, who was a total jerk. Remember when he took Ice on a date!

[@alseid8709]

The 2005 "Great Lakes Avengers" book followed the Giffen/DeMatteis JL template pretty closely, although not as successfully. I think it's because while JL focused on characters, with comedy or drama applied as needed, GLA was more explicitly a comedy, so it didn't feel as unique.

[@uncannydcmarvelous5732]

Some folks I know always called the Giffen/DeMatteis JL the most MCU DC Comic, is that true or is just an exaggeration?

[@alseid8709]

@@uncannydcmarvelous5732 Depends on what they mean by it. I don't think I see the comparison. It's true that the MCU has a lot of humour in it (sometimes to its own detriment), and it has a lot of character and inter-character dynamics work as would be expected, but each movie is still an action blockbuster in the end, so the big story always takes precedence. This JL run was all about the characters, how they played off each other, etc. I suppose there's some overlap there, as opposed to a lot of other comics that are all plot all the time, with little or superficial character work. But still, I don't feel they're quite the same. And if anything, "the MCU is the most Giffen/DeMatteis capeflick franchise".

[@isuriadireja91]

i think much of the humor in this run actually heavily influenced the Whedons, the Bendises and the MCU. Maguire's art was in a league of its own. and as i can recall was unrivaled until Adam Hughes did a couple of issues after Maguire left.

[@aVerveQuest]

It bothers me that every time watchmen and The dark Knight are cited as changing the industry, that Mark Gruenwald's Squadron Supreme, which beat watchmen to the comic book shelf, is never cited.

[@juanpere3209]

I love this run i Always love seeing these characthers again this run just have fun like when they stick in the island or the popular one punch moment yet i still believe when things become dark like the gray man and despero this book didn't get peeked after Dematties & Giffen left being the Early to mid 90s era justice league to me sucks like the Early to mid 90s Avengers thank god Kurt Busiek & Grant Morrison made these super teams good again this isn't perfect though i didn't care much for the JL Australia and the art did look wonky in the final arc.

[@kennethschultz4910]

Best panels was Batman knocking out Guy with one punch and Blur Beetle laughs and Black Canary gets sad bcs she missed it.

[@Paper_Abyss_Comics]

I saw echoes of the bwaha league in X-Statix. But that's about as close as I can think