Justice League International was More than Just Humor

One of my Patrons, LS Greger, requested this topic: taking a look at the well-regarded Justice League run by writers Keith Giffen and J.M. DeMatteis with artwork by Kevin Maguire, Ty Templeton and Adam Hughes. It's remembered for being funny and I break down its history and why its humor worked so well.
/ comictropes

[@benadrylthundercrotch7144]

Mcguires art for this series constantly amazes me, the faces are just stunning.

[@unrulysimian3897]

Benadryl Thundercrotch - exactly! Solid comic artist, best facial expressions ever. I'm fortunate enough to own a Maguire Hulk page where he and Dorammu go at it. I bought it for the Hulk, but he even manages to give Dorammu expressions.

[@robsonwaterkemper]

How about Max Lord resemblance of actor Sam Neill?

[@CoryTheRaven]

And not just Sam Neill, but specifically Sam Neill from The Omen.

[@darnellafrance3591]

they’re beautiful

[@harrylane4]

Any comic artist who can make faces look unique and distinct gets props from me, it's much harder than it looks

[@RealRoknRollr3108]

JM DeMatteis was and is still a criminally underrated writer.

[@Colonel_Chrome]

One of the first ongoing DC series I have a complete run of. All 100+ issues, all the annuals. One of my favorite incarnations of the League. And features one of my favorite DC Characters who has yet to be seen on the big screen: Fire.

[@FlamingoKicker]

I loved when they slipped "John Cleese" in there as the Beefeater.

[@DangerAce]

Iron Maiden - Somewhere in Time, Justice League #1 and Paul Verhoeven's Robocop, all released less than a year apart. We knew how good we had it, we just didn't know that it was mostly down hill from there. 3:)

[@kevingibson3881]

Awesome! I've been looking forward to this ever since you mentioned the JLI in passing many episodes ago, and it was well worth the wait.

[@zenbyo]

12:37 Adam Hughes did the art for the Despero story and it looks great.

[@TimmHenson]

Just thinking about Booster and Beetle in this book makes me smile. Their buddy-cop antics and capers were hilarious. The oreo prank being one of the greatest "WTF" moment in comics. It rates up there with majority of Stormwatch canonically dying to xenomorphs in a crossover.

[@mattlohr]

4:16 This is one of my favorite single pages in comic history. The expression on Mister Miracle's face in panel 5 still slays me.

[@CaptainTae]

The Giffen/Demattis league is my favorite run of all time. All the way through Breakdowns. Even though I knew it was basically an LMD, I cried when Mr. Miracle died. More specially Guy telling Ice about it.

[@JK_70]

loved the two issue story with the cat!

[@laserbuddha]

@ ComicTropes Can you do some content related to DC:s "Legion of Super-Heroes", original continuity (1958-1994)? For some reason, there's so little content about this version on YT.

[@JoeJoe-lq6bd]

laserbuddha The Great Darkness Saga is one of the best stories DC ever published. The Legion also might have had the most dedicated fandom in all of comics.

[@laserbuddha]

@@JoeJoe-lq6bd Thanks for the info, I have to check out "The Great Darkness Saga". When I was younger I only had access only to a couple of "Legion of Super-Heroes" comics, always wanted to know more about them.

[@AC-gb7do]

laserbuddha I agree, the original continuity is sorely missed in YT videos.

[@laserbuddha]

@Dave Ryan Thanks for the info! I guess I have to take a deep dive back in time and travel to my teenage years (basically do a reverse Superboy).

[@AC-gb7do]

Dave Ryan You’ve got an impressive run of LSH, I read the original run, never really collected it until the 1989 “new” era, the “adult” Legion, the “reboot”, spinoffs like Legionnaires...I’ve missed a lot 😀

[@adolphsanchez1429]

I loved the series as a teenager. The humor mixed with McGuire's faces was unlike anything else being released at that time. I haven't read it in decades, but I would imagine that Blue Beetle and Booster Gold's antics (especially their lusting after the JLI's female members like Power Girl) might be cringe worthy today and result in multiple visits to the JLI HR department.

[@vivigiappone]

Chris, you are great and really love your videos! Also your intros are great but, if you can, use a better cam/smartphone because you use them form the first shot on your videos and it's important as first impression.

[@gevdarg]

"...like Wild Dog... and Vigilante." LOL!

[@maymay5600]

what's always funny is that, how all of them jeep fighting each other for the smallest things like for rooms, food or i don't know maybe the bathroom? or just plain want fight each other

[@BlackburnBigdragon]

My favorite team comic from that time period was Excalibur. That comic really did the humor right as well.

[@johnpglackin345]

It ruin some of the marvel characters as well.

[@aldi404]

Oh hi there, you caught me watching the new Comic Tropes episode.

[@constipatedinsincity4424]

Here's a book for you to review World's Finest 199-200.

[@rogergoza3180]

This run is so good it was the basis of the Justice League in the Batman: The Brave and The Bold tv show

[@vegetafan9922]

1:50 Hey! Don't talk shit about my girl Mari!

[@MGSBigBoss77]

5:49, Lol that Justice League #75 cover, saying Black Canary can take Wonder Woman's place. She is a badass but damn ; Supes, Batman, Green Arrow, The Atom, all laid out. She must've been on a $hit ton of; Weatabix and thensome!

[@jessewilley531]

Who's the greatest Green Lantern Defending You and Me... G Apostrophe N O R T!

[@jasonjacobs7929]

JLI was my first real comic love. The killing off of Ted Kord, making Max a villain, killing Sue Dibny etc shows DC didn't share my love

[@StraboSE]

Great cover, iconic

[@vicaldama9314]

This was on of the only DC series (I was all about Marvel or indie)I collected! The art was sick n the writing made me LOL ! I still remember Batman line about Mister miracle , miracle Mister..dang I'm going have to go dig in the crates.

[@henrybelman7424]

minor correction, lord didn't create the league, he just manipulated Batman and Captain marvel off of it and Booster gold and Dr. Light into it. The team was formed by the Phantom Stranger durring legends, just with superman and wonder woman included.

[@rameybutler6555]

I always wanted kieth giffen to write captain america.

[@johncole015]

I Like their take on Marvel's Defenders too.

[@dantheface2986]

Favorite incarnation of the League

[@Skabanis]

I collect the shit out of these comics they were amazing

[@matthewweflen]

No mention of JLE? It had the same writing team to start and was a showcase for new artists such as Bart Sears. Otherwise, great vid.

[@deodane4065]

thanks again

[@christopherjohnson4276]

Fun video. Thanks Chris!

[@davidgraham8299]

I'm hanging for volume 2 of the omnibus. Come on DC get it happening.

[@Rafferty1968]

Elongated Man, Vibe, Gypsy and Vixen. Third string then, TV superstars now! Thanks to the Arrowverse. I have this entire run, and remember little of it now except for that moment Batman knocks out Guy Gardner lol.

[@MGSBigBoss77]

I was reading the 'Will Payton' version of; Starman at the time, and just loved that 'Justice League #42' exaggerated cover! www.chrisisoninfiniteearths.com/2016/12/justice-league-america-42-1990.html

[@RobotsPajamas]

Another one of my favorite comic series.

[@MadThespian]

Still my favorite run of any series ever.

[@phildicks4721]

I loved the early run of JLI. I actually liked the humor, but the team chemistry and dynamics were what really made the comic great. You had a team that didn't always get along. Everyone had their own personalities, and just like real life, they didn't always like or get along or with their teammates/co-workers.

[@koufax3739]

Booster gold a rich Chad who thinks it would b fun to travel back in time and be a super hero and does😂

[@CarrionCarriesOn]

Oh sweet I love comb-ic tropes

[@givmespace]

oh hi there you caught me stealing comic books!!

[@headofbaphomet]

I love when Big Barda gets her car stolen with her Negarod in the trunk and is losing her mind and Martian Manhunter is trying to calm her down. Barda says to Manhunter "your oreos were in the trunk too" and Manhunter loses his mind too. BTW Maciek is pretty much pronounced Ma-check. Trust me, I used to be Polish :-)

[@SoundWaveSam]

You used to be polish? What are you now?

[@ianfinrir8724]

​@@SoundWaveSamVarnish, obviously.

[@DormammuDawg]

O hi there, you caught me writing an internet comment.

[@Targisvear]

Wild Descartes smiling as you catch him writing an internet comment.

[@estevangarcia1089]

Speaking of internet comment let’s talk about Spider-Verse.

[@slothbaby2104]

@@estevangarcia1089 Let's talk about the end of the world

[@albertolopes829]

Being a Brazilian, the "International" aspect (both the members and the worldwide settings) of the League in this run was definitely appealing to me. The mix of drama and humor, the political tones, the personalities mix, and the art of Maguire and later Adam Hughes were the other high points for me. Too bad it went down in sales and got cancelled. I think it was natural - a joke for too long time can be tiresome. Also, Maxwell Lord was one of the best characters by then. It was a shame that they turn him into a "basic" villain later, losing all the nuanced aspects of his persona. Also also, the blue-gold duo was amazing. In later issues, they started to explore the fact that Blue Beetle had no powers, but a "strong mind"... And he got killed by Max Lord. What a waste of two good characters.

[@JoaoGuilherme-or5cf]

Realmente essa run é muito boa mesmo, li as 60 edições do Keith Giffen e do JM De Matteis e adorei, esse aspecto cômico é muito bom, eu tinha preconceito pra ler essa fase por conta dos heróis desconhecidos, mas devo dizer que muitos desses heróis se tornaram alguns dos meus favoritos, Guy Gardner, Besouro Azul, Gladiador Dourado, Fogo, Gelo, todos personagens muito marcantes. Mas não só os heróis são ótimos, mas personagens secundários também como o robô L-Ron, Oberon, Max Lord, todos muito bons.

[@ArmandoUlloa]

Thinking about the old JLI makes me sad. They forced Maxwell Lord into being a villain when he was clearly not. He loved the Justice League. He was such an amazing character. Anyway, this was the best run of the league. You can't change my mind

[@PeterStellenberg]

Deep down he wasn't a bad guy. He was ambiguious, duplicitous and pretty dark from time to time but he believed in heroes and Justice. If nothing, he would have wanted to become a super hero.

[@ArmandoUlloa]

+Peter Stellenberg Yes! there were issues where he dreamt about being a hero. Even Martian Manhunter read his mind and confirmed he loved the league.

[@lsgreger2645]

That was the hardest part about re reading back issues of this. In the back of my mind, I knew what Maxwell Lord would become so it was hard to read when he redeemed himself to the league.

[@rayvenkman2087]

A major mistake on their part.

[@nailin18]

Indeed, the character assassination of Maxwell Lord was the greatest loss of all. All the other JLI era iconic characters have got their redemption and well due recognition over the years since the Infinite Crisis debacle, but they never fixed Maxwell Lord, he remains broken to this day. And worse still, that is how he is now remembered by in popular culture, that irredeemable trash that was Infinite Crisis is the version of him they use for the tv shows and cartoons, and not his true version in JLI. They are going to put him in the new Wonder Woman movie now, guess which version they will chose? Never forgiven Didio for this, don't think I ever will.

[@Quiro26]

This is going to sound silly but thanks to you I know now how to pronounce the names of some of the comic book creators.

[@ComicTropes]

I sometimes get it wrong, Quiro.

[@MarsHottentot]

@@ComicTropes I think it's funny when you do!

[@2001dallco]

I thought the same thing!

[@leftcoaster67]

They did a reboot of the Justice League origin. The best part is they were thinking of names for the the team. One of the heroes says "How about The Avengers?", where they answer, "That name is taken, you know by John Steed and Emma Peel...." It's humour like that put into a book that made it good.

[@MGSBigBoss77]

Extremely great writing, lines like that clearly carrying a 'double entendre' given DC's main competitor was a few block away in; Manhattan with a certain label book of their own called a certain 'thing' to boot, lol.

[@HeroicNerd]

Maxwell murdering the beetle is the greatest tragedy in comic books.

[@MGSBigBoss77]

Next to the death of Elongated man's wife; "Sue Dibny", perhaps Beetle's is!

[@KidBaklava504]

I almost quit reading comics when they murdered Blue Beetle.

[@megelizabeth9492]

The Brave and the Bold animated series handled the death of Ted Kord much better than the comics did, I think.

[@FredMaverik]

@@megelizabeth9492 That series is amazing.

[@Noname-ut1ye]

I always found Jason Todd to be the most tragic DC character. Fans hated him,He was a kid alone on the street stealing tires because his father and "mother" were dead. Batman took him and thought he can help him follow a better path but it ended up getting him killed, and not just killed but out right murdered by the Joker while his biological mother watched. His mom sold him out to the Joker and it got them both murdered. In a Deadman limited series, it was revealed Boston was there to guide Jason's spirit to the beyond but Jason realized he went about his life was all wrong and was worried about his mom more than anything. While he was dead, Batman saved the Joker's life twice and took on another Robin barely a year after his passing. When he was revived, no wonder he hated Batman.

[@gevdarg]

This was the best run EVER of the Justice League... hands down! It's the gold standard for how creators should approach a book. It did EVERYTHING from action to humor to, yes, grim and gritty. Kudos to the creative teams from the editor to the colonists on this one.

[@johnpglackin345]

Their was no gritty stories or drama in this run. It was horrible. It ruin comic books for awhile.

[@lsgreger2645]

Thanks so much for doing this! After I requested this, I had to go back and buy some of the graphic novels that collects the issues. I was kinda afraid it was nostalgia and my 12 year old sense of humor wouldn't hold up today. It still lots of fun reading it after 30 years. My favorite comic was the second annual where the Joker was contracted by a dictator to kill the Justice League in exchange for the top five candidates on Batman's alter ego. Through misfortune and bad luck, he is foiled on every turn with hilarious results.

[@AC-gb7do]

LS Greger my favorite scene, Guy gets knocked out with one punch by Bats, and BB missed it. I just enjoyed the whole run, still have most of them.

[@lsgreger2645]

@@AC-gb7do oh yeah. That is iconic . I think this run also mastered the anticlimactic resolution to a tee. It wasn't overdone but it seemed like most story arcs ended simply and they moved on. Like the Mr. Miracle/Magna Khan/Apocalypse story arc it ended so simply but in an almost brilliant way.

[@AC-gb7do]

LS Greger Manga Khan, that lovable SOB 😂, and his robot pal L-Ron...the Captain America knockoff, General Glory IIRC..now I’m going to re-read some of my trades.

[@johnpglackin345]

This was the worst series of the Justice League. The humor was very banal. It was a waste of time. I should have stopped after issue 12.

[@johnpglackin345]

@@mr.elixer2455 and most of the characters act like jerks.

[@rayvenkman2087]

A team book that does humour *AND* action that doesn't come at the expense of the characters? Take notes current writers, you could learn a lot from the real professionals.

[@lordd794]

As far as modern writers go, I've noticed Jeff Lemire is pretty good at interjecting occasional humor, and it never seems heavy handed.

[@TheLabecki]

There wasn't really that much action when you look back at it, especially compared to DC comics now-a-days. I think that is fine though, I loved this run ofJL.

[@AceLM92]

@Jacob Wood give this man more likes!

[@lawandorder7777]

The biggest omission in this video is that fact that it was this JL that initially fought Doomsday, Booster Gold actually gave Doomsday his name. No Wonder Woman, no Flash, no Aquaman, Just these guys whom some considered the B team taking on the threat of Doomsday, just before Superman showed up.

[@yy-hj4br]

I just got the first few trades from a black Friday sale. God, Gardner is such an edgelord I'm surprised he didn't time travel from the 90's into the late 80's Edit: I should also say it was because of this channel I picked up JLI, so thanks Comic Tropes!

[@saltacaballo]

Rest in Peace, Keith Giffen. You candid beast of a writer of the my first ever comic : Legion of Super Heroes Anual #50

[@wtk6069]

The thing I remember most about that era is when it did get serious, I got WAY serious, and it had more impact than most other comics. That's probably because of the juxtaposition against the humor. That said, they did "lose the plot" in maintaining just the right balance of humor and drama, and it all became just too silly after a few years.

[@Solitaire001]

I agree that the League becoming serious when the situation called for it. One of my favorite stories was the return of Despero, where he's hunting down the members of Justice League Detroit and comes after Gypsy. After killing her parents and threatening to kill more if Gypsy doesn't surrender (which she does), the Justice League arrives and takes him on. Despite being overwhelmed by the power and rage of Despero, they still took him on despite the odds. That story showed me that despite their reputation they were true heroes, and it is one the best stories in their run.

[@dlvnmedia]

Blue and Gold should still be a title

[@koushikraja331]

....hi, from the future......and it is!!!

[@latestred6510]

Are you joking ???

[@koushikraja331]

@@latestred6510 nope, it's a solo series written by Dan Jurgens.

[@KyleRayner12]

12:40 - I love that the one shot of Darkseid shows him doing his signature move - chilling on someone else's comfy chair.

[@caligulapontifex5759]

Maguire will always be one of my favorite artists of the 80s. In my opinion, Kevin is a very under appreciated artist. He's a master at drawing facial expressions and his page layouts are among the best. A skill very few artists can truly pull off. The cover for issue #1 is iconic.

[@gentarofourze]

A young Sam Neill would of been a perfect Max Lord, hey even now I think he can pull off a older businessman version.

[@timmeyer9191]

With today's technology, they could definitely de-age him like they did for Kurt Russell in GOTG 2.

[@seandarbe2521]

I considered international and Europe one run two books, and they are wonderful. My favorite heroes from the run are Fire, Ice, Black Cannary, Booster Gold, Guy Gardener, and Animal man, and my favorite married super heroes Mister Miracle and Big Barda.

[@AndrewLuke]

Their barbecue was awesome!

[@seandarbe2521]

@Dave RyanBig sur and clock king and other vilions showed up to wreck stuff up.

[@seandarbe2521]

@@AndrewLuke Until Joker showed up it was pretty chill, then Joker arrived when batman showed up he regretted coming to the party.

[@johnpglackin345]

Their correct names are Green Flame and Ice Maiden.

[@aaronleverton4221]

@@johnpglackin345 Nope, Fire and Ice are their correct names and I learned those names in the pages of JLI and JLE. Global Guardians? The who what now?

[@arindam_sen]

One of my favourite KZbinrs covering my favourite JL titles. JM Demateis shared this on Facebook too.

[@PeterStellenberg]

Tragically forgotten but clearly one of the best era of the League. The best with the JLA run by Morrison, Waid, Kelly and Busiek from the late 90s early 00s.

[@gozzywozzy485]

We will never again see Martian Manhunter, Kilowog and G'nort crammed into the back of a cab. Ah, memories :)

[@dennisanderson3895]

I deeply enjoyed how balanced and blended the humor and action were! One of the BEST comic runs ever! It provided adventure and realistic interaction. [And I yet adore the *new* JLI Quarterly team, with the 3rd-tier criminals becoming the JLAntarctica, who then saved the world from swarms of penguin-piranha hybrids!]

[@jackdubz4247]

JLI was the first Justice League comic I ever came across here in Scotland. Batman punching Guy Gardner's lights out is burned into my brain.

[@octaviovids]

The JLI is what got me to truly love comics. Booster Gold and Blue Beetle became very special characters for my best friend and I. I’ll always have a special place in my heart for that team

[@dairedarcy1130]

Wonderful stuff, speaking as someone who read this series “live”, so to speak. It stood out as a genuinely funny book in the midst of all that (admittedly gripping) grittiness.

[@fightclubify]

Not even got to watch the video yet, but you, sir, are exactly, and absolutely correct! ;) Kooey kooey island, though.....heeheehee. Bring back Blue Beetle/Ted Kord, DC, ya heartless bastards. ;)

[@JoeJoe-lq6bd]

Bring back Ted Kord in the form of a young Gavin McLeod and have him be the god of Kooey Kooey.

[@fightclubify]

Hahahahahahahaha. 👍

[@lsgreger2645]

The Booster Gold comic after the 52 series had Booster going back in time and saving Ted Kord. They have some adventures again but Ted ends up sacrificing himself because he realized they were being manipulated into changing the time stream. He also officially thanks Jaime for taking up the mantle and saying he is proud of him.

[@AC-gb7do]

LS Greger Sadly, I still miss Ted’s Beetle.

[@Kz-ds8gb]

L-Ron, Manga Khan, Kooey Kooey Kooey's Club JLI . Anyone Get Justice League 3000 ?

[@jeremycline9542]

What amazes me is how another title, Justice League Europe, which had some of the same creators, can be so mediocre. What was it that made one work and the other was just struggling to lend even the slightest characterization?

[@jeremysoronen8154]

That's what happens when you try to copy something successful and don't understand why it is successful.

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

I don't recall it being bad (but I haven't read it in a long time). I know they regretted setting it in Paris because no one working on the book knew French and they were always getting letters about their attempts being wrong. I think that was the real reason they moved them to England later on. Still, I remember the issue where the team and the Injustice League ended up in the same night class to learn French and being really funny especially when the teacher made Big Sir put is gum on the end of this nose (it was a huge glob) and when they started fighting and she ordered them to sit down and shut up.

[@JoeJoe-lq6bd]

I have a feeling they were being pushed to do the exact same thing with another books since JLI was so successful at the time. It seemed like they were trying to just fill in all the same archetypes as with JLI but it just didn't fit the characters they used.

[@jeremycline9542]

+Chris McWilliams to be fair I do love some of the arcs, like when they faced Starro and also Bluejay is one of my favorite B-listers.

[@jeremycline9542]

+Joe Joe I've read the run twice and the thing is, in JLI, the characterizations are very strong and work well, but in JLE, it's a struggle every damn issue to give characters personality, and I don't understand why they couldn't seem to do it. Perhaps all that's needed is one character like Ted or Guy to act as a catalyst or to bounce other characters off of, and it may be they never had that. I'm writing this as somebody who adores Captain Atom.

[@Novapoid]

This run was fantastic; to this day I tried reading different eras of the Justice League but nothing remotely touches what this creative team did imo (I'm willing to accept suggestions tho!). Characters like Mr Miracle, Blue Beetle & Booster Gold were never this good afterwards. The more famous ones luckily did have their fair share of great stories in their solo books. I remember reading at least 50 issues but never quite finishing the whole thing, is there a good ending point plot-wise? I do recall seeing a similar version of the team during the Death of Superman but by then it already felt different.

[@brianng8350]

I think this is the template MCU modeled after for their empire -character and humor! I know Kevin Feige is a big comic fan, but I wonder if he had read DC or Justice League growing up?

[@kirbymarchbarcena]

@6:43 Batman: okay,then, Mr. Sulu---warp seven! Me: I love that quote!!!

[@collegerebel]

6:37 Batman made an attempt at humor... With a Star Trek reference? That doesn't compute.😐

[@tomkerruish2982]

I still recall an early appearance of Booster Gold when they were fighting the Royal Flush Gang. Near the end, Ten asks Booster, "You wouldn't hit a girl, would you?" Booster replies (in three panels) "Well-" WHAM! "-actually, when I come from, equality of the sexes is taken as a given!"

[@grisflyt]

This is DC to me (as well as Vertigo and related). As somebody who came back to DC for this, I never understood why DC is supposed to be darker than Marvel. The Punisher and Wolverine are pretty dark and brooding characters. Even Peter Parker had a bleak and pessimistic outlook, though in the for of teen angst. Actually more than that. The Connors and six-armed PP story line was pretty grim, if I remember. The death of Gwen Stacy wasn't very cheerful. I don't know what Spider-Man is today in the comics. Back to DC. When I saw The Guardians of the Galaxy, I instantly thought JLI (JLA/JLE). "MCU is doing DC." The Guardians is 1980s DC. It's a 1980s retro movie, like Stranger Things. I haven't read comics since the early 1990s and have no clue what DC, Marvel and the rest are today. For all I know, every DC character today could be like Venom: psychopaths who kill everything that moves. At least, that's what Zack Snyder and Warner are telling us, seemingly with glee. WW was essentially marketed as the notable exception: the DC version of a chick flick, while the rest of the franchise was to remain pitch black. What makes Warner think the moviegoers find dark, grim and dystopian stories appealing? Those things use to be one-offs, like Blade Runner, and not the basis for a franchise dependent on casual/mainstream moviegoers coming out in droves. I'm clearly in the dark when it comes to today's comic books, but DC has so much potential that Warner seems to have no interest in. The GL Corps, Legion of Super-Heroes, as well as Kirby's 4th world could be the basis for epic storytelling. LoSH isn't exactly A level, but as MCU has shown, you can revamp C-level characters and make them work in the movies. Edited stupid typos.

[@unrulysimian3897]

Not Crazy - I agree, the DC reboot in the 80s are my favourite super hero comics to this day. But, there's been a lot of good stuff since then - and you can buy it fairly cheaply in omnibus form. Check out Instock trades.

[@grisflyt]

@J P ​ Unruly Simian I do not doubt that DC, and Marvel, put out some good material. I'm critical of Warner. I could say Hollywood in general. I do not personally care for most of MCE, but they do things generally right. There's an old Hollywood quote or saying. "This is Hollywood. We change everything." This certainly has been true for Warner. MCE has also done changes, but has generally stayed true to the source material. Hopefully Aquaman means a restart and Warner put trust in younger enthusiastic directors. I don't like Zack Snyder, but have no interest in tearing into him. I just find him wrong for the job. Joss Whedon is also wrong. I think of him as a one trick pony. He may have been right in 2012, but not now.

[@XMACHINAv2]

The Warner Bros. DC comic adaptations, particularly the Snyder's films, are not tonally dissimilar to the Post-Crisis DC comics which serve as their inspiration. Assertions to the contrary are never backed up by the content of actual comic books. Marvel comic movie adaptations are a huge departure from the narrative tone of the stories on which they are based. Were the Marvel movies made with a tone consistent with those books, you'd be commenting that Marvel films were "pitch black". The Marvel films have the broad appeal that they do because they are made following a generic formula for making effects-laden, big-budget blockbuster movies. And that approach was only something Marvel stumbled into accidentally thanks largely to Robert Downey's comedic ad-libbing on the set of the original _Iron Man_ film; the film was originally conceived as a Tom Clancy-esque "techo-thriller" -- essentially a spy movie into which Iron Man would be inserted. If you haven't done so already, go read the issue of _Marvel Preview_ (or a reprint of same) which contains the first appearance and origin of Star-Lord. You want to talk about "pitch black"? Go read the "Demon in a Bottle" _Iron Man_ story-arc that introduced Tony Stark's drinking problem -- Kicked off by an incident where business rival Justin Hammer remote-triggered the armor to Repulsor-blast a gaping hole in the chest of a visiting foreign dignitary. People who complain about "grimness" in a super-hero comic film adaptation strike me as people who have never actually read a super-hero genre comic. Comics are violent -- inherently. When people say that "Superman is supposed to be about 'hope'!" I reply that I thought that Superman is supposed to be about punching -- because punching is the predominant method by which he solves problems; I've yet to see him stop the likes of Mongul or Darkseid or Brainiac by _hoping_ them away.

[@grisflyt]

​@@XMACHINAv2 I did not say that Marvel films are pitch black. I said the comics frequently are dark. I'm not a fan of the MCU. I like the first Ant-Man, Guardians and Thor: Ragnarok. Hollywood and "casuals" always get Superman wrong. Snyder may have got it more right, but his messianic take on Superman is both boring and dated. Snyder is a 3rd rate writer. As a director, he's formulaic and uninteresting. It's much harder to explain this. I will use Ghost in the Shell (2017) of a textbook hackwork. The director doesn't know what he's doing except for making pretty pictures. Some of the scenes are almost exact copies of the anime, but the director didn't understand why they were handled the way they were. There is an epidemic of lazy paint-by-numbers filmmaking today. With that said, Snider is just the wrong guy. I haven't seen any of James Wan's work, but he seems to be a great choice. I don't know what freedom Wan had, but I would like to see Warner give young directors freedom to do their thing. I'm more than not a fan of MCU. The Guardians and Ragnarok are two movies where the filmmakers had more freedom. I will never watch The Avengers. Like everybody who knows comics, I agree with everything you say. I have always hated the expressing "comic book movie," used as derogatory. It's true that DC back in the day, just like Timely, made unsophisticated comics. But in the post-Marvel era, comic books have always been ahead of Hollywood. Hollywood is behind most cinemas. Brokeback Mountain was considered radical when it came in 2005. Wong Kar-wai's Happy Together came in 1997 and made little fuss. Heroines have been a staple in Chinese cinema since the 1920s. The Red Heroine was serialized in 13 movies in the 1920-30s, the second longest film series in that era. "Comic book movie" is the creation of Hollywood. It's a failure to not understand the source material. To get back to my point. I don't want to see Warner doing MCU. But I don't want to see retarded Snyder movies either. I definitively do not consider Joss Whedon a director. I have nothing against Joss as a person, but he has nothing to offer. WW, warts and all, would not have been the movie it is without a real director. She's the only reason the movie turned out as good as it did. She has 1000 billion times more talent than Snyder and everybody above her at Warner, combined. Patty Jenkins was the only one of those people who pulled her weight. She's proof enough that we do not live in a meritocracy. I must confess that I have enjoyed seeing Warner fail. Because it's all self-inflicted. If Apple stopped making Macs and iPhones, because they were hedging on analog coming back, and started to mass-produce typewriters and then go bankrupt, I would have enjoyed being a spectator to that too. It's fun watching idiots doing idiotic things at a distance. Like watching the Three Stooges.

[@cha5]

XMACHINAv2 Although I’ve never quite come across a Superman story that tries to make him as Miracleman Olympia lite ala Snyder.

[@makaiev]

Justice league international made me apprecate blue beetle and detest guy gardner... it was awesome!

[@renegade_legend2583]

So when will you do JLA from Grant Morrison, then Mark Waid and more?

[@MGSBigBoss77]

*So when will you do JLA from Grant Morrison, then Mark Waid and more?* ^This! Grant Morrison only went back to the classic 7 Justice League lineup after years of DC avoiding to do so, themselves!

[@FredMaverik]

@@MGSBigBoss77 actually wasn't it mark waid in a midsummer's nightmare? And he also did Year One and followed up Morrison's run, with Tower of Babel being the most famous arc.

[@richardranke7878]

When I met Keith Giffen at a comic book convention I greeted him with the words,"Ambush Bug,"which had been what I liked best that he had written. As for the Justice League he did,I accepted it for a couple years-but did not like the way Guy Gardner was portrayed,and I did not like the almost stupid Captain Marvel. I put up with it for a while,but gave up on it when it just got too stupid.JMHO.

[@cthulhupthagn5771]

I liked when they brought them back as a Brightest Day mini (Justice League Lost)

[@rogertemple7313]

"the best JLA was in the 60's to the early 80's, the later years were okay but they just didn't have the great lineups, I loved the comics where they teamed, JLA,JSA,&LSH(the top three superhero teams), the All Star Squadron was absolutely great.... the JLA was the premiere superhero team for DC comics.... This version of JLA was good with golden age characters,characters that DC acquired from other companies, from other DC worlds putting them in the team, Guy Gardner added the humor,as did Plastic Man.... Most of the teams that were on the DC lineups were forever backups to the Justice League of America and its many,many other names for the team.... the current JLA,as well as other teams in DC today just aren't the same,I know they have to keep up with the times But,I miss the good old days of DC.... Now,as far as Maxwell Lord being a top villain in DC that didn't wear a costume, no way Lex Luthor will always fill that Villainous role.... the DC of today is not great but as I said they have to keep up with the Times.... I'm Sorry but I will forever love the DC of the past(1960's to 1980's), my faves are the New Gods and Kamandi I love apocalypse type settings, But,while you have the DC of Today, Always remember the DC Comics and Characters of the Past they are/were the greatest,THANK'S."-😃.🌐🛂🌐.

[@michaelconnor1542]

Black Canary: walking into the room, "Hi Beetle,...why is Guy lying on the floor?"

[@CoinOpTV]

thx for the retrospective - such a great comic run

[@fad23]

Adam Hughes was the regular artist on Maze Agency before this.

[@jeffeppenbach]

And, he was the regular on Darkhorse's Ghost.

[@pablochelia1037]

You did ana amazing job here. Thats my all time favourite league. For moments, they did Seinfeld before Seinfeld. They did what Marvel is doign right no in the MCU, humazining their characters so you really care about them when their lives are at risk. Keep doing this amazing videos, man.

[@johnpglackin345]

I don't care about inane and banal characters. A lot of humor ruins the characters and their is no sense of drama to the stories.

[@metal87power]

I see how Young Justice picked its stories and perfected them. Esp. "bomb" as a reason for metahuman outspread.

[@CoryTheRaven]

This is the Justice League that I grew up with... The one incident that sticks most in my mind is the annual where they were trying to have their summer BBQ and the Joker shows up. At the end, the Joker wants out of there when Batman comes rolling up in a Batmobile that looks like a Honda coupe or something. Batman sees the Joker, says "not today" and just keeps driving past.

[@Yoshimitsu4prez]

Have you ever addressed why “comic” is mispronounced in this theme song? I have never heard it pronounced that way

[@SonofSethoitae]

It's called an accent

[@Babbleplay]

Describing Booster Gold as a Time Traveling Jock is generous. I'd have said time travelling night security guard. His Athletic career ended in shame, as I recall.

[@Elseworlds]

Just a note for the serious aspect of Giffen's League, much later on, I think around 2010, he got to write a Suicide Squad maxi series, where he killed almost every member of his hilarious Injustice League.

[@RickReasonnz]

Grr... Can never stand Guy Gardner...

[@FlamingoKicker]

When I saw Maxwell Lord being featured in the upcoming Wonder Woman: 1984 movie I forgot that he did exist back then in the '80s (guess the old memory is getting on in years). Does that mean that he doesn't exist currently in DC Continuity? I mean most characters seem to keep getting rebooted and never age somehow. Of course movie continuity and actual comic continuity don't always mess together.

[@briancrocker3377]

I would LOVE a video about Giffen, especially focusing on his humor comics. Ambush Bug and The Heckler are two of my personal favorites of all time - I seriously love both (and both are some of the best humor comics ever made), and even his PUNX with Valiant/Acclaim was seriously underrated and hilariously funny. His ability to skewer comics' absurdity while not burying them was one of his best attributes, and his unique voice is one I treasure. Everyone focuses on Lobo or JLI, but those comics I mentioned above are the ones I hold close to my heart.

[@walterendres4829]

It doesn't get better than: "Hi, you caught me texting on my smartphone while driving my car. Speaking of stupid ideas ..."!

[@KelsaRavenlock]

Collaborations between opposites can create relateable middle grounds in a story. David Lynch mixed with Mark Frost produced Season one of "Twin Peaks".

[@aka.radstatic]

This seem to be what James Gunn is going for.

[@Wally_West]

100%, we have guy gardner and booster gold now

[@ckminty603]

Chris, how could you mention the best team book runs and leave out the Defenders? I’m crying in the key of Steve Gerber. There’s even a JM DeMatteis run, so it should have been on your mind talking about JLI!

[@marioozzie]

Adam Hughes was the regular artist for Comico's Maze Agency series BEFORE he took on the Justice League...

[@cerealkiller1029]

THIS is the only Justice League I ever liked and honestly wished the DCEU used THIS iteration instead of the classic characters, which I never liked. Too boring. Except for Batman.