The KPZ Gets "Balanced" (Not really) - KPz-70 - War Thunder

[@Evrimomono]

If only Gaijin explained their reasoning behind their changes and improvements rather than going "here's another buff to another random Russian vehicle because"

[@ravenouself4181]

KV-2 got nerfed yet again, AC shell is gone. Like, poof, gone. Just like my hopes and dreams.

[@SHEEPS_123]

Gaijin explanation "t72avturms is suffering to the mbt-70/kpz-70 we must nerf western tanks so that russian pride is restored"

[@jPlanerv2]

@@SHEEPS_123 trurms should be 10.0

[@jellevandervelde704]

​@@jPlanerv2 Pretty on par with the M60AMBT but the turms is more accesable.

[@thebirbestbirb]

​@@jPlanerv2 10.3

[@tigersympathiser2265]

The APFDS and APDS updates this update were completely fucking baffling, the Centurion's 84mm (historically cited as being inefficient against the T-54/55) has been made better in terms of raw penetrative power than the L7 and Ordinance Bk T11, plus they nerfed the Bulldog's turret rotation speed despite several pieces of evidence to the latter all confirming the old speed was correct

[@kimjanek646]

Dude. 20pdr APDS is much worse than L7 APDS against sloped armor...

[@jetnavigator]

Consistently baffling changes lately.

[@tigersympathiser2265]

@@kimjanek646 Yeah but the raw penetrative power is certainly still something to note, even if it's basically getting no spall

[@marcusherold6691]

​@@tigersympathiser2265 early APDS were really insane at flat pen after all

[@thcfck6870]

honestly it should be back at 9.0, no thermals, nerfed ATGM reload and bad shell...

[@BluevesPL]

Same as MBT-70

[@KingdomOfDimensions]

Yeah that is some abysmal pen. Makes me wonder if it might be worth using this missiles instead :p

[@CatsAreAmazing8187]

@@KingdomOfDimensions it is bad but not certainly as bad as your take holy shit

[@BluevesPL]

@@KingdomOfDimensions it has enough pen against anything that's not russian

[@Krelp]

I only use the atgm on my kpz, shoot off Russian era with 20mm to easily kill as the missle is in flight

[@snickersmyknickers5120]

I've seen a change in apds once before in the M60 AOS, from 285mm to 265mm but it's nothing to worry about. But a 61mm nerf to the KPZ, MBT-70 and the XM 803?! (Assuming they both use the same gun), it's probably one of the biggest changes I've ever seen to a vehicle that barely gets used at all.

[@WarThunderGerald]

EXactly - wasn't some issue needing this!!!

[@OzzyTheWild]

The MBT-70 is even worse. It has a 7.5 sec reloard while this one have a 6 sec reload

[@Varkvarkvark]

Pretty sure thats because the kpz has a different autoloader compared to the mbt 70

[@OzzyTheWild]

@@Varkvarkvark yeah I know. I was just talking about in game experience. They are the same br, feels the same way, but one of them, the Kpz 70, have a huge advantage over the other one

[@ArcticWipeout]

XM-803 needs to be 8.7 and the MBT-70/KPZ need to be 9.0 now.

[@OzzyTheWild]

@@ArcticWipeout yeah I completely agree with you. They aren’t capable of fighting at 9.3 anymore

[@EBBEBBEBBE]

Gaijob basically want their prem USSR players having better game experience so they can let them feel it's worth it of purchase

[@exactinmidget92]

i didn't expect another ammo change. i remember back in the day before the first ammo change when Russian 85's had to fight Panthers, Tigers and Perishing's with with only 120 pen.

[@pendraig5446]

The 155mm smoke shell is the best for dealing with pesky guys with ATGM carriers (except for the russian ATGM flower)

[@k_balu-8104]

152

[@M4_Soppi_2]

The only thing I don't understand about this tank are the limited rocket nerf it get The cannon is literally "launcher" but you can only get 6 rockets but in the past it was unlimited

[@chiriematthieu]

I think it s because atgm don t fit autoloader and most amo rack. They are too long. But i agree 6 seems short. It seems a huge design flaw for a tank with such main gun. . .

[@matthewj9444]

This update really hurts because I just got the mbt-70 and I was wondering why I couldn’t pen turms as easily saw the changes and now this is going to make grinding harder at this point don’t even go for the mbt just go straight for the abrams

[@2s38enjoyer]

Same, was not having a good time in the 803

[@destroyerarmor2846]

​@@2s38enjoyer they are both painful in urban maps. In open maps you can snipe with missiles and HEAT

[@ravenouself4181]

The KV-2 also got a nerf - it lost it's AC shell.

[@meerbee2910]

nerfing an already terrible but amazingly fun tank, great

[@jPlanerv2]

WHAAAAT NOOOOOOOOOOO

[@Event_LUNAE_Horizon]

if you play KV-2 with AP, you belong in a gulag

[@jPlanerv2]

I just checked it they gave it SAP round these fucks i cannot

[@kimjanek646]

You mean they changed the AC shell to actual AC shell penetration? It's a huge HE shell without impact fuze, of course the penetration would suck.

[@tommasosacchi6612]

Yup Justin, not the only one that heard the volume change in the “click” sound in the hangar….I was like “wtf? Why is it so loud?!”

[@VerdigrisTrees]

You are right, the hangar SFX is louder. I'm not sure what my sound settings were before the update so idk if they reset it, or what

[@khoanguyenngoc9094]

And the american MBT 70 still has the old reload w the nerfed dart. Just why even ?!

[@casematecardinal]

And the xm803 has no 20mm to deal with light tanks since they neutered the post pen on the round as well

[@Ballistics_Computer]

I thought it was hilarious when I heard TEC defending this change

[@HANGING_SILVER]

Did he actually? Id expect nothing less from a guy that needs 18 minutes to talk about 44 seconds of content.

[@Ballistics_Computer]

@@HANGING_SILVER I'm pretty sure he said something along the lines of these vehicles are good and they'd still be good after this change (regardless of the fact that they now have 7.3 Britain levels of penetration performance)

[@SHEEPS_123]

tec as in TheEuropeanCanadian. theres no way he said that

[@frosty848]

@@SHEEPS_123 Why does this surprise you. the guy's been wrong on many things

[@Ballistics_Computer]

@@SHEEPS_123 Hey, I could be misremembering. It was a few weeks ago that I saw the video, and it might not even have been him. That being said I'm pretty sure it was.

[@icy3-1]

Nice Rooivalk there, Justin. As for the 152mm dart, *look how they massacred my boy*

[@PNolandS]

Would sure help if Gaijin would get around to making it so this could survive on one crew given how bad the armor is, though that's not too say it would balance out this round...because it wouldn't

[@TJ042]

They added a lot of new hangar sounds. It seems in battles that the sound is deeper as well, but I’m not quite sure.

[@288gto7]

I dont ever remember hearing clicking sounds in hangar but after the update i hear it and its very loud

[@SilentButDudley]

At the 9.0-9.7 range tons of German stuff is over tiered… Radkampf, Leo 2k, Tam 2c and this vehicle really should be 9.3-9.0 at most. Other than that stuff the actual Leo 2A4 and other Leo 2 tanks are strong for their BR, it’s just the non Leo 2s are pretty poorly placed.

[@thebirbestbirb]

Look at America is u think that is bad

[@macekeeks3085]

look at France for over tiered shit Germany is fine

[@sharkk127]

Pretty sure the rad, 2k and tam are fine where they are, they don't have armor but they have very good speed and firepower

[@casematecardinal]

Lmao what? Those tanks are great. America doesn't get equivalents till 10.0 and you have to buy most of them because they aren't in the tech tree.

[@2s38enjoyer]

The xm803 dart has been like that for a while. It quickly became my least favorite tank in the game, the dart is awful

[@ronaldmcreagann6343]

It’s hasn’t been this bad till Sky Guardians dropped. It used to be at 355 mm at point blank, and now it has worse pen than the Maus at 7.7.

[@jaco2508]

How come? It can pen anything except from t-72A and T-64A from the front, it has good spalling and mobility with good lineup makes this tank very enjoyable

[@frosty848]

@@jaco2508 both those tanks are what is sees majority of the time.

[@ronaldmcreagann6343]

@@jaco2508 “good” spalling? The 803 and MBT/KPZ-70 have never had good spalling. It’s been notoriously worse than most rounds you’ll commonly see at its br range. It’s only redeeming quality is that it had decent pen at 9.0 and 9.3, but now even that has been taken away.

[@LewisB3217]

@@ronaldmcreagann6343 and yk, soviet tanks lack spalling (remember when the devs turned spalling off for the Soviets and never did anything about it when they were caught?)

[@fire_drake12.arc.24]

the round was already shit for a 9.0/9.3 vehicle (XM-803 at 9.0) and they decided to nerf it. It was barely as good as the shitty M735 the XM-1's are stuck with. They may as well put it at 8.7 or 8.3 now because thats how it performs with its ammunition. Not to mention the US versions have a 7.5 second reload rather than the 6 second reload the KPZ-70 has. I liked the MBT-70/803 always felt 9.3 was too high for them though honestly. There are much better performing vehicles than the MBT-70/Kpz-70/XM-803 at 8.7 and now it just feels like after this super unneccessary nerf to these vehicles, they feel like they belong at 8.7 now. And despite what you might think, i believe in reality if this was put at 8.7 it would not be an issue. it has similar performance to things at 8.7 besides being a bit faster. I has no valuable armor and the 20mm is nice but it rarely gets to have a purpose.

[@destroyerarmor2846]

Outclassed by everything at 9.3

[@chocolat-kun8689]

I was about to research this after the XM. I ll go straight for abrams then.

[@hansiminator69]

Hey Justin, whats your oppinion on the "new" T-72 for the German tech tree? I know I could have asked you on stream, but i'll do it here instad for basically no reason. :)

[@discordmoderator313]

Finally gives Germany a 9.3 tank with some semblance of actual armor

[@SHEEPS_123]

the t72 will now replace the kpz

[@SHEEPS_123]

Gaijin's explanation "thank you for all your feedback comrades but Russia just makes better tanks, take for example our glorious t64 at 9.0 that can take a hit in the turret from any dart in the game, we make western tanks fair and balanced as all things should be"

[@tigersympathiser2265]

Good god why do they keep the T-64 and T-72 under 10.0?

[@ayfr1249]

Dude is unironically complaining about T-64A at 9.0, this has to be one of the biggest skill issues I've ever seen.

[@ayfr1249]

@@tigersympathiser2265 Your name tells me everything I need to know lol. Don't tell me you seriously think T-72A should be at the same BR as 2A4 or Abrams ?

[@collander7766]

@@ayfr1249 I don’t think he’s complaining about the fact that it’s 9.0. I think he is, as he said, complaining that it’s turret is literally impenetrable by *any dart in the game*

[@jasonzhou5783]

@@collander7766 That has been fixed.

[@Rio_SenpaiYT]

3:29 yeah the clicking in the hangar is wayy Louder. Though it is satisfying to hear those clicks when you're navigating your way in the hangar 😂

[@raizencore]

5:34 bri'i'sh Justin makes his triumphant return! 💀💀

[@j.k6943]

But hey they buffed the accuracy (not in the changelog) to just 300% of the average tank gun dispersion from the previous 600%

[@IzPaco]

KPZ-70 is probably one of my favorite tanks to run

[@somerandom6409]

Rather than play the MBT for a video for the first time you decide to play the KPz again...because faster reload...to determine if the nerf did anything significant...ignoring the other two vehicles that are just worse....with the same BRs...

[@casematecardinal]

America can't have nice things

[@ArcticWipeout]

Doesn't seem to effect it too badly in the angled performance department. I mean proof in the video, you did damn well.

[@eicoytube]

my enemies are always hearing me

[@macekeeks3085]

its sad that almost all 7.3s have higher pen

[@fire_drake12.arc.24]

the MBT-70/Kpz-70 never belonged at 9.3. now with this nerf both those and the XM-803 dont belong above 8.7. Its sad to see.

[@pipopoikapelaa5468]

​@@fire_drake12.arc.24no way in ever living hell that they'd belong to 8.7. The ammo Might not be as good anymore but everything else is still great, imagine having to face off against this in a fucking T-54.

[@aidendavis3086]

The missile has a limited range . I just tried to shoot a helicopter at 925 meters and it blew up before it got there.

[@lilcoolcat]

0:00 I have had that bug since the dev server even submitted a bug report on the dev side and it still came to the public server I’d be lying if I told you I wasn’t disappointed in gaijin this patch

[@Combatwombat-sn7ng]

This thing has always been 40mph- even though every source I've ever seen quoted 43mph as the top speed

[@Mathosalpha]

It was corrected due to historic document information. It's now using the same slope mods as other tungsten alloy apfsds.

[@collander7766]

This has nothing to do with the slope tho. The 0° pen is what changed most drastically, aka no slope

[@kimjanek646]

@@collander7766 The slope penetration probably went up. You can only see 60° in the stat card but above that, with the new change, it's probably better.

[@Mathosalpha]

@@collander7766 the previous vertical pen wasn't correct for the length of the core and apfsds type.

[@collander7766]

@@kimjanek646 iirc most darts bounce at like 70° so there’s really no point in calculating the penetration over 60°. You get the general picture with just 0, 30, and 60

[@collander7766]

@@Mathosalpha again that has nothing to do with the slope modifier. And even then, I’m pretty sure that this change is actually rather unhistorical. You see, the XM578E1 152mm APFSDS is actually extremely similar to the M735 105mm APFSDS. This is because they used practically the same dart. In fact, relatively little was changed between them. If you look at their stats, you’ll notice that they have almost the same mass and muzzle velocity.

[@AAthlete34]

At 9.3 with less than 300mm of pen thats obsurd

[@WarThunderGerald]

RIGHT! THINK ABOUT TAM 2IP PEN AND ROUND TYPES!!!! - DM33 8.7! Hell Even just DM23 would be ok! EVERTHING ASBOUT THIS TANK IS WRONG and im sad ive put so much research into it! and have to purchase 3 tanks before it (so many millions SL!) just to get it... AND - For what now? it was the one DAMN slightly interesting or different tank tyope for some new play styles finally... Literally only interesting vehicle around here i could get to... to change things up a bit! HAVE SOME FUN FINALLY! with different weapons WHICH THE RUUSSIANS HAVE ENDLESS MISSILE AND MULTI BARREL / Roound (secondaries + Missiles + Main Cannon!) TANKSIN GAME AND THE LIKE one!! ONE THEY CHose of German tanks and they KILL IT! ! This was THE ONE THING THAT COULD CHANGE IT UP! but now... its been castrated! WHATS THE POINT!?

[@TURMlllNATOR]

Finally another KPZ vid

[@jameshopkins5702]

How could they go and change data on shell velocity and penetration? Not keeping it real. Definitely not digging that.

[@Somplay.]

Main reason i stop playing high tier is heli and drones

[@apgaming6437]

Justin, could you do a video on the type 93? I think the gameplay would be enjoyable. Hope you see this!

[@papasiukas7419]

Lithuania mentioned rahhhh 🇱🇹🇱🇹🇱🇹🦅🦅🦅🔥

[@yusufedhem-ez7vm]

You should try and take out the new 7.3 Chinese tonk for a video maybe?

[@ruansteenkamp4289]

Into: South African space technology at it’s best, where we aim to land on the sun. Joke aside as a South African this is funny as all hell

[@hansiminator69]

I changed my general sound settings on my PC so i thought these hangar button sounds changed because of that lol

[@certaindeath7776]

there are clean hanger mods, which only show your vehicle, nothing else. i prefere them over the vanilla hangars, takes less system ressources, and removes noise

[@sharkk127]

Hey Justin, can you do a video on the m60 ambt, I haven't touched it in forever because of the insane amount of cas

[@SpriGgEx]

watching your video we may have lost flat penn but it seems the gun itself is alot more reliable now?

[@TyresePlays]

They did the same thing to the mbt-70 no one can tell me that there is no bias for Russia tanks

[@BFGiant]

the hanger sound is new

[@tigercat7727]

Heat or apfsds for kpz 70??

[@n1co2017]

why you ask well because this is actually how much pen it had irl. this isn’t some hehe we’re going to randomly nerf this thing. it’s a realistic change.

[@tacticalcamel149]

try the new t-72 for the germany in the next video

[@mitchellbrumwell1268]

I love how only German vehicls get nerfed

[@crazyadam9281]

This nerf didn't effect only the German version of this tank, it effected both US version too.

[@reehanabdullah606]

This means that it has lesser pen than the T95E1 which is already known as a bad tank

[@jPlanerv2]

I skiped mbt70 in US tree when i unlocked it, when i got to the point i could research it i already had event Merk mk1 and mk2 maxed out. It always dies in one shot no matter what and by every gun on its br, reload is bad nothing special , gun stats are below every other nation 105mm or 115mm, speed is ok i guess , i rather have my 8.7 leoa1a1 or 9.0 1a5 no point playing it in german tree but in US if you dont have event merks you are forced to play this big pile of shit

[@proofostrich9061]

L take.

[@pendraig5446]

I will not be surprised if this thing gets into 8.7 or 9.0 since it has worse performance now than it used to be.

[@proofostrich9061]

@@pendraig5446 Yeah I think they just want to open a spot so people feel forced to grind the T-72M1

[@ronaldmcreagann6343]

@@proofostrich9061 he ain’t wrong

[@SHEEPS_123]

use the m3a3 Bradley

[@Sunshrine2]

Ok. The problem with Gaijin's reasoning is that they "wanted to make everything homogenous as all documents use different measures for penetration, armor hardness" and yadayada. That makes perfect sense. What they forgot to mention is that using these penetration formulae one can get basically any result one wants - there are so many variables in the input that I can make this APFSDS penetrate 450 mm of armor or 150 mm of armor at 10 m distance WHILE keeping the "in game stats" the same (weight, velocity).

[@homefront1999]

Never played the German version. But isn't the American version better?

[@daddy_marx6823]

Kpz dart was already bad brooooo

[@sigspearthumb69420]

You killed me on advance to the rhine and I said hi to you in chat hahaha

[@state-college71isthebestau64]

You cut out the part where I (your squad mate on flank and spank) crashed my drone next to you

[@jasonthomasthomas3056]

How do i buy ur decal from warthunder

[@someonesomeone9680]

I was watching a video about kpz😂

[@iiKiboshii-c3z]

KPZ is fine at 9.3, still one of the best there. Very fast, very responsive, great autoloader, great targeting, good ammo options, 20mm, trolly armor. It's better or equal to an XM-1 in most every aspect except lacking the shitty thermals, and that's considered a great 9.3 already.

[@fire_drake12.arc.24]

the XM-1's ammunition is shit at 9.3. Fucking 8.7 ammo on a 9.3 tank that is already missing important features. Then they go and nerf the XM-803, MBT-70, and KPZ-70 which all had ammmunition that was barely ON PAR with the shitty M735 round, then they nerfed it. These tanks should be 8.7 now, 9.0 tops. This penetration they have is absolutely abysmal, and it was already shit before when it was basically M735.

[@destroyerarmor2846]

Play the MBT-70 like an M-18

[@ReaReaTheOne]

War thunder is a horror game 9:31

[@alientitimilk9073]

South African vibranium

[@CarryPotter007]

from a guy that only tests these vehicles, aka offline (cause online matchmaking is fun 🤡), I can say it is pretty dog shit now I was so confused at first (I was like "I don't remember this being so bad"), but then I checked and saw the dog shit pen value and I immediately got flaccid ffs

[@onlyarandomusername]

Lance Reddick, really?

[@Storlans]

nerfed due it could kill T64A.

[@jasonzhou5783]

It literally still can? In fact, it's better at it now, since the 60 degree pen was actually buffed?

[@Storlans]

@@jasonzhou5783 it still does not pen its front hull armor like it did originally when it was introduced.

[@jasonzhou5783]

@@Storlans It does though? The pen at 60 degrees and greater is better than before, T64A ufp is 68 degrees. It's literally better now.

[@Storlans]

@@jasonzhou5783 Sorry you are right i meant the T64B, for some reason i belived the A and the mbt variant where the same battle rating.

[@jasonzhou5783]

@@Storlans The round couldn't pen the T64B UFP before the change anyways, and it still can't, so it didn't really change anything there. Most 105mm apfsds can't either, 105mm DM63, which is iirc the third most powerful 105mm apfsds, is about the minimum for that.

[@pendraig5446]

had a game paired with my lil birb, the round is pretty decent if you know how to flank and shoot at weakspots 😅... for me it is the best thing for a masochist player like myself

[@ravenouself4181]

Bro, any tank can be used for flanking and shooting at weakspots, even the horrible French Tier I ones. That ability is definetly not something that should be used to define a "good tank". If anything - if that's the only viable way to score any kills with it - then it's a bad tank.

[@casematecardinal]

Its trash. But a good player van still make it work. Just like the jumbo and aos

[@fire_drake12.arc.24]

it belongs at 8.7 now, there ae legitimately better thanks in practically every way but speed at 8.7 compared to the MBT/Kpz-70 tanks now. they never shouldve been 9.3 but now with this nerf they really cant be justified being above 8.7. It already had to aim for weakspots before, its round was barely on par with M735 which itself is an absolutely garbage round above 8.7 (fucking XM-1s are stuck with that POS and are missing smoke launchers. They need M774) now its ammo is worse than most light tanks at 8.7. All it has going for it is speed which really doesnt matter if you have to kill something frontally.

[@arthuroldsocks]

Mamma mia...

[@llraijinll5753]

You know who Gaijin can't balance!? Justinplays because he's permanently overpowered!! ❤😊

[@Ardi.Ramadhan]

My favorite-best talisman vehicle just got fked-up. because of bad snail

[@antoniojmols]

How can centurion mk3 with 84 cannon have more pen, then a vickers mk3 with a 105 cannon? Where is the sense of it? I can't see it...

[@jasonzhou5783]

Because you, like everyone else in this comment section, are only looking at flat pen, which at 7.x+ BRs means absolutely fuck all. Vickers round has much better angled pen than cent 3, just like KPZ70 has much better angle pen than the apds rounds everyone else in this comment section is comparing it to. Centurion mk 3 can't pen a T10M through the UFP at point blank while the vickers mk 3 can. Heck, even the conqueror doesn't UFP pen the T-10M as easily as vickers mk 3; T-10M ufp becomes mostly impenetrable to Conq at 700m while vickers can still pen at 1000m. And to the people comparing KpZ 70 to early apds, KpZ 70 still ufp pens T64A at close range. Conqueror, the strongest early apds in game rn, cant. Stop comparing flat pen. Flat pen becomes much less relevant than angled pen past 7.0. Y'all look like morons.

[@rxzxqx6982]

shell size is not the matter tho, probably the vic mk3 has bad quality ammo as vic is supposed to be export vehicle

[@jasonzhou5783]

@@rxzxqx6982 It's L52, the most advanced apds round the brits ever made for the L7, designed 6 years after L28A1 used in the vickers mk1 and cent 10. It's also the same round used by the M60A1 AOS and one of the options for the Strv 103. The reason it's flat pen is worse is because it used a tilt cap for better angled pen, which is more important than flat pen. It's literally better against anything that isn't a T95 or Maus.

[@rxzxqx6982]

@@jasonzhou5783 hmmm, that's make sense

[@LewisB3217]

They love to kill NATO and US tanks 😂

[@Kill-Dozer]

can you loan me some silver lions you seem to have plenty

[@adamsourek3299]

It is sad when you look at Russians 9.3. with soooo better guns, armor...why is USA so bad compare to others....

[@hawkeye6292]

😂😂😂😂 is has less pen than a 84 centurion haha, what a pisstake

[@jasonzhou5783]

84 centurion cant ufp pen a t64A, this still can. 84 centurion can't ufp pen a t-10m, this still can. This has 60% more pen on the 60 degree, which, considering what it faces, matters a lot more than flat pen. Stop comparing flat pen.

[@Lynxium_]

The reason for this is historical accuracy. It's not supposed to be a nerf or a buff, more like a change.

[@Optimusprime56241]

Yeah that excuse would fly if Gaijin didn’t purposely ignore historical accuracy for game balance when it conveniences them, hstvl is supposed to have a round similar in pen to m774, does it get that? No, it’s also supposed to have a 1s reload which it also doesn’t get A lot of French tanks are supposed to have 4s autoloaders but they don’t Gaijin purposely ignores historical accuracy if it means nerfing other nations and buffing Russia

[@LewisB3217]

Makes no sense, it’s a nerf, historical accuracy isn’t used for this game

[@LewisB3217]

@@Optimusprime56241 denied, helps the US too much comrade, play the 2s38 instead

[@ravenouself4181]

@@LewisB3217 even then, the kv-2 is supposed to be able to fire 2-3 shots a minute, per wartime reports. But it's reload is horrible. and now, it's ac shall has been removed.

[@ravenouself4181]

@@Optimusprime56241 The only Soviet tank that gets constant nerfs is the KV-2.

[@texasthib2029]

I guess the turms players are crying their broken tank can still die