Testing & GRADING New 10.2 Warlock Tier Sets! Demo May Need Some Help...

[@deathwavee2939]

Ofc they undertune us. Then mid patch and/or end patch we somehow manage to climb up. (Demo main)

[@Floodsye]

I mean if they tune the Destro Rift 4-set cleave effect well and make it do some real damage, I could see and wouldn't mind seeing, a shift to Cata play, applying tons of Immolates, and essentially getting infinite procs of Rift which you then spam alongside Rain of Fire. I personally would love to see something like this cause the Inferno playstyle is so stale has pure reliance on both tank positioning and ramp times. At least it'd give a chance for Destro to be better in those "regular" keys that are typically pugged by most players. I get it, Destro's OP in 30 keys...but almost nobody plays those keys yk? Either way, nearly every other spec has gotten massive reworks in these patches now and Warlock is I guess bound to stay feeling like it's from the year 2008. Which sucks cause the class fantasy is so damn cool. That said, I would LOVE to see Aff excel again. It's about damn time.

[@b4nk3r15]

If they build tier sets around a choice node, why not make it do something with either option of the choice node so you can make meaningful decisions.

[@nuneztrevor]

Agreed. I'm already not a huge fan of "you literally *have to* take this talent or your tier doesn't work", but on a choice node it's outright saying "You will not be taking Chaos Incarnate for an entire patch".

[@martinjp6792]

As long as aff is king next patch, i dont give two shits about demo nerfs.

[@colewalraven3052]

Aff set is just a “and seed of corruption” clause from being pretty fun in my eyes. The destro tier is something I really want to like, I’ve wanted to play rift since I saw it in the tree it just looks super cool. Demo obviously big meh but I do kind of like the idea of applying a “dot” that summons a demon on a tick.

[@blackblade99009]

with how little power can be added to darkglare in comparison to the other two specs i would actually like darkglare to be made baseline (a huge change from either wanting it massively redesigned or removed as a whole -i figured it was never going to have either of those things happen-) the demo set also does less given the 33% nerf to one of their talents. hand puts doom up but demon damage has a 33% chance to reduce the active time. when it expires it has a 20% chance to summon the demon. with the damage values being untouched sounds like the best and most thematic way to do the tier set.

[@juno0922]

Kala is bursting chaos bolt and ripping dummy out then trinket operated and bear is dancing next him. I cannot help 😂

[@cameronjohnson4443]

So the demo set feels like they tried to recreate the Mists iteration of Doom but on a lesser scale. In mists doom would tick more often and each time if it crit then it would summon an imp each time to attack the target. We used to be able to snap shoot the dot with the lei shen trinket for some ridiculous shennanigans lol.

[@Shadhun98]

I really gotta see how affli pans out in AoE. Will the 3 raptures do more dmg than seed? Kinda weird if you play doom blossom tho Affli in council fights or 2 target fights is gonna be nuts again

[@Kevinvettu]

Season 1 was ok.. Fell of very quickly into S2.. Now with the changes and these horrible tier bonuses, I might not even bother testing S3. -Which is a first for me in many expansions even as a Mythic raider and M+ high key enjoyer.

[@Floodsye]

Seen a LOT of this floating around. Blizzard got a problem right now with the "fun factor" of the game. They are hellbent on stomping down on fun for some reason and also making most of the content sort of irrelevant to even play. Crazy to me. I'm not a mythic raider/high key enjoyer like you, but I do usually help test the new zone and such. However...Zaralek and even the open world before it in DF...has been entirely irrelevant which is odd, so even that side of testing is kind of pointless. It's just a few questlines and scenery nowadays >.> I don't want like 24 hour borrowed power grinds, but at least make it not pointless, yk?

[@Sknerus89]

Feel you bro, can relate. When Diablo 4 devs ripped the classes across the board and received community backlash, they apologized, gave their reason and started making good changes. In WoW they tend to fuck up, get a lot of feedback, but only pick up bits and pieces of it, never take full picture into the consideration. Who designs a set that forces you into a capstone? When people were yelling at them for forcing us into CDF, that quite frankly, was not that awful, but it's thanks to it's position on talent tree. Well, point is, it is not FUN to lose your favourite thing going, be it a) purple rock b) long awaited QoL change to enable 2 min builds. GWD changes are literally pointless in terms of Aff and Demo, this talent is not important, but for destro a 2 min vs sometimes 1:40, - it's a flat nerf. Who asked? Where do they get feedback from? Some people "hail" the removal of madness - enjoy being a clicker because destro just lost whatever left it had in terms of showing off your skill. Aff still doesn't have either some SL conduits that made agony last longer or some functionality that just makes dots refresh, or whatever. What they did to Demo should be done in a 11.0 alpha, not even beta and definitely not in the PTR for next patch. Portal being the most dead talent in existence (can only talk from BFA perspective onwards) literally killed again, only after 2 seasons of SL. Dunno what devs are smoking, dunno if even there is a Warlock dev hired or just some all rounder make sets for few classes in game.

[@matthewshull9345]

Really hoping Affliction can once be a solid strong m+ class.

[@dirkhudsucker2390]

Wishful thinking. It will still be trash tier next patch as it has always been

[@zacharysawicki4111]

It’s S tier in M+. So idk what y’all are even remotely talking about

[@yakarue]

@@zacharysawicki4111 in what world is aff S tier in M+? Certainly not this world or season. Did you get beat by an Aff lock in one of your 15s? xD

[@zacharysawicki4111]

@@yakarue I’m +3k in aff so no. I’m sorry you can’t get over the learning curve

[@yakarue]

@@zacharysawicki4111 Being 3K means absolutely nothing this season and has no bearing on a spec being S tier. Data exists, my guy.

[@cb9d90]

were can u buy or get the set? on ptr? anyone. is it from a chain of quests or something.. lmk if possible..thanks all

[@slugfest513]

Yea, at this point demo just need a rework Numbers won’t fix this mess they made with the talents

[@Sknerus89]

They could always say sorry and revert the changes and hold until 11.0 alpha.

[@Nagassh]

I wish they just axed the "new" destro talent that's replacing Madness and just put rift there. Tune the mastery end node talent to be the powerful CB amp that the Madness replacement is currently trying to be or just bake it into the baseline spec, let rift be one talent node earlier and easier to access. It doesn't need to be absurdly powerful then, it could mostly be a movement aid / QOL improvement / potential to hang tier bonuses or future talents when they have more time to design them on. Rift was never enjoyable because it was doing crazy damage, it was enjoyable because it let you feel like you were still playing the game when you had to move. Making it an end node puts too much pressure on it being strong when it's better off trying to be accessible and just making the spec feel nice even if the numbers aren't changing much.

[@Xileonn]

My thinking was, why not allow the setbonus that boosts a talent to give you that talent unlocked on the tree. this way you basically get a free talent point and not feel like you are "forced" to take that talent just because the setbonus is all about it, not to mention that you dont want to talent into it in M+ enviroment but you can still have the skill itself. If the reasoning is that this is a way to make you choose different talents in different tiers, then why isn't the Demo setbonus is with doom and not a fake doom, the answer is they are affraid that people will be angry that the "have to" talent into doom similar with rift here so just unlock the skill with the setbonus and all of this headaches would be nonexistent.

[@Sknerus89]

@@Xileonn its a neat idea, I like that. But I have no idea if they would do that, knowing that they haven't done that in past. Same story with other sets, it would just feel bad. Maybe a good time to move forward and start this good practice?

[@رضاعلیپور-ف2ح]

bro as demo lock its feels fucking sad from the moment that i changed into warlocks since SL its been 8/9 nerfs during only 2 ssn to demo soo sad for me

[@TacBlades]

I hate the fact that tier sets force a talent choice, tier sets should had interesting effects but not forcing talent choices.

[@m_rod9562]

The devs should figure out a way to reduce the amount of active dots required to play aff, I think it has far too many in comparison to literally any other DoT spec

[@tylerchapman8856]

I wish agony lasted longer

[@fishandclips475]

Just get rid of siphon life imo

[@tylerchapman8856]

@@fishandclips475 siphon life is such a lame ass spell.. if it did more dmg and last twice as long it might be cool

[@egoralikin4888]

​@@fishandclips475ye. I play aff in wow classic with my friends right now. The wotlk version of siphon life would be perfect for affliction - passive 40% lifesteal could make us even more durable in m+ and free up a gcd

[@gandalfdengra5580]

Agreed, my first thought seeing aff here and I don't even play it.

[@CoffeeTheFreshmaker]

affliction would also just feel bad if you had to cast 3 MR before you could start seeding, but would also feel bad to lose out on the set bonus and it'd might as well not exist on aoe

[@godbadgood]

@kalamazi What affects demensional rift damage? Do the chaos bolts from rift go off our mastery/haste? Or is it just purely intellect? And will crashing chaos possibly have any effect to it

[@ZomgZomg007]

Destruction - Rift is just too far deep for it to be a Tier set, it really limits your options. It needs a serious damage amp. Changes to Madness seems awkward, because now you lose your cast speed, before you always had after a CB cast at least 1 sec to either incin or just move. Now with the cast speed lost, its just horrible, so slow. Demo - Gutted. Tier set is cool, but as mentioned it does pathetic damage. I would say make Doom the thing, but rework the talent, and hand of gul'dan now spreads Doom via tier set, include a 4pc variant where it does splash damage/chance to summon doomguard. Aff - I think the tier set isn't that exciting, however it seems like the only option. Seed of Corruption is mandatory, unless we soul rot/rupturex3 then seed. If they do add Seed, then the Seed variant needs a lot lower than 50%. MR is 50%, Seed is maybe 25% Seems like Aff is the only option for play, with current tuning.

[@ryancook6180]

It feels like they've just given up on doom for demonology. They never want it to be an optimal talent because a lot of player don't like it (probably why this tier set doesn't interact with doom when it seems like it easily could have). But they won't remove it because they're worried some players will miss it.

[@JiuseTV]

“Rarer than my mother” LMAOOOO got me dying

[@Sknerus89]

Have hand of guldan carry doom brand and when it splash, have it be capped at 3 targets. That would be fair. I dunno if your acceptance for destro should have place here, there could be few things done to make it be cool set. Remove grim feast, put rift into the class tree or remove our eye capstone and put rift there. There is no way Im playing with rift into m+, losing out on either what we wanted for so long - 2 min infernal, or what I consider the "trademark" for destro - lots of stuns due to blasphemy procs (not to mention dmg it brings and shard gens) Rift has to change position in talent tree, be it class tree or switch places with something thats not a capstone.\ Aff will get seed into 4p, they just want to toy with us :)

[@thisone6uy]

It was fun while it was lasted.

[@zelha5528]

Never see doomguard? sir you summoned it in this video D:

[@polowy9126]

Even the design of the demo tier set makes no sense for demonology Maybe if once they expired they blew up like they do but also summoned a random demon like portal Then in mass aoe, youre sitting there with like 40 demons but as its stands, its just a tier set that coulda been passed off as an affliction tier set

[@MsWowal]

Hear me out! Destru may not be a top spec next season, BUT last season will make destru broken again. This theory is based on the last seasons of previous expansions. Either the whole class will get talent tree reworks or destru will get broken set bonuses.

[@Kurmo2]

I could see the new set bonus being strong in arena at least. Similar to conflag meta where you just run around spamming instant casts.

[@Sknerus89]

Im like 99% sure there is no 10.3 coming, they ran out of new dungeons for this expansion already, there is more returning dungeons than ever, lol

[@ryancook6180]

For Aff, I think they should nerf the far left column of capstone talents a little. It's overbearing and seen in every ST and AOE build.

[@jamiesontu7944]

I’m destroyed at the fact that the Destro Set bonus isn’t green

[@shkekgigachad5275]

Noobs found a problem where it didn't exist. Peaks and troughs are a non-existent problem. This is called the damage profile. And the damage profile should be influenced by combinations of talents that provide an opportunity to adjust your character to the type of battle. Demo had the ability to deal huge damage in a short period of time with a build through NP + RoT tyrant, and there was also a build comparable in total damage through IH. But due to the fact that during ptr, blizard does not fix the reported bugs that significantly increased the power of this talent, Blizard first nerf IH 2 times, and only then fixed the bugs affecting it, after which this talent became much worse than other alternatives. IH + GWD gave demo the second damage profile - constant stable damage, without ups and downs. And of course when we able to stack all externals + season set and trinkets we able to do ok damage, but when you remove anything from external list, you will see how demo fall to garbage. Without PI demo doestn exist, even with healers PI you need HIGHT ROLL CLASS TRINKET stack, NP demon type, NP stacks, shards/cores refound + on top perfect NP setup and after roll crits on Pitlord and Tyrant, and only than you do more than average damage. So there is a question, why noobs find any problems with peaks and walleys, if in average situation demo absolutely middle dps. 10.2 demo need 100% aura buff to do middle damage. Live with that now noobs.

[@oatfarls]

Wait, they ruined Nether Portal? What about it changed?

[@Xileonn]

Demo 4 piece setbonus is literally just a random dmg procc like a trinket. I used to like setbonuses that gave us more/extra pets from our rotation because they had synergy with our kit. not anymore since they whitelisted Tyrant, extra demons pets and guardians that are not on the whitelist are golirified dots from now on. I dont care if number wise they can buff us to be viable, this interraction stinks for me. Just remove the random Demon procc and make the 4 piece setbonus the kazzak talent where doom brand deals more per active pets. I really hope IH will be better than watered down Nether Portal, that way we are atleast going to have a resemblance of the SL rotation we had (except way less instant bolts).

[@yacidra9165]

blizzard must just give us dimensional rift for free with the tier set and everything will be fine

[@ditysalad]

They removed synergy and nerfed talents in demo. Couldn't have chose one or the other...

[@Sknerus89]

Nope, that would be smart. They are not allowed to think. Only grab hammer and hammer it DOWN HARD! Oh you forgot about 1 thing. To make sure demo is for sure gutted, Priests PI is shorter and gives less haste. Oh yeah, but that PI nerf is for both priests and their targets, because why would it only be for targets, right? KEKW

[@Blaylock2]

I can’t stand any of these sets so disappointing

[@chloeaddams537]

yet again destro forced to play a talent that has had no play what so ever, it could've been removed along with madness and no one would care.

[@chloeaddams537]

AND giving up avatar with 2min infernal..... no movement changes either so no matter how much destro sims high mobility fights will see other specs played zzzzz

[@Sknerus89]

@@chloeaddams537 But people happy for madness gone, because destro was too hard to maintain single buff. Cast time reduction for CB? What?? Yeah thats also gone, enjoy your stronger chaos bolt on the opener and die hard casting CBs xdd

[@chloeaddams537]

not sure what your point was but seems like it just highlights my point of no mobility changes for destro with madness being removed.@@Sknerus89

[@tiagopassarela]

You can see on this video that the devs dont play the game

[@gregtroufas8066]

worst warlock tier sets Period!!!

[@alexg959]

I just don't understand what the devs are doing with demo. I know mathematically it's wildly tough to balance these talent trees and tier sets, but the decisions they're making are just sucking the enjoyment out of the play style. Makes me not want to roll that spec next season

[@MoONSHO7]

reading that afflic tier bonus has made me quit

[@davidw.5984]

You will have enough points to get to rifts in destro m+ build since you will Not CDF. Thx

[@maledictus1883]

na, coz you only have 10 points to spend in the bottom part of the tree and its all spent on grand warlocks and purple inferno

[@Perways]

Seems like you don’t know how the talent tree works… but thx for your advice

[@andrew1916]

very bad t set buff for destro this time. Hope they`ll remake it

[@casedem]

demo is dead again. pack up your bags and come back at the end of xpac when it becomes broken again fellas

[@fist095ct]

Most apes and dolphins have a Better thinking process than this or these so called class devs

[@kylesummers4884]

Hey fam, trying some weak auras for aff lock, and tbh I need some help setting up my ui, RootSwing#1113 thanks for all your content!

[@stonedruid]

Why do they just refuse to make Doom good instead of this clunky trash

[@taftvalue]

first

[@tosdiv2886]

how does it feel

[@taftvalue]

pretty good@@tosdiv2886