Kathryn Edin and Maria Kefalas: Why Poor Women Put Motherhood before Marriage

"Why Poor Women Put Motherhood before Marriage" by Kathryn Edin and Maria Kefalas, Associate Professor of Sociology, University of Pennsylvania; Maria Kefalas, Assistant Professor of Sociology at Saint Joseph's University in Philadelphia. Talk sponsored by the National Poverty Center.

[@qwallace70129]

Im here after Kevin Samuels spoke about the book. Who else?

[@abundant_one]

Same

[@richardgrant8527]

Me too...

[@stephiel38]

Yes...here bc of him. God rest his soul.

[@kacithegreat]

Same

[@Skull-Nation23]

Same

[@KeplerAuguste]

I appreciate Kevin Samuels for sharing Kathryns book with his viewers . It's so sad how many women and men are falling into this problem . This is issue has gotten even worse going into the year 2023. Thank you for keeping this presentation footage up @Ford School of Public Policy . Rest in power to Kevin Samuels . Much strength to those still working to keep the information and solutions available .

[@girlietambiraimapere4388]

Heard about this book from the late Kevin Samuels....great talk

[@Que772]

Its interesting how she says poor women put children before marriage. I grew up in poverty and I will boldly say, its a lack of knowledge. Everyone is looking for love and guidance. Toxic parents, which usually comes from poverty, aren't teaching healthy lessons in life or pushing marriage. People are having sex without putting any thought into the consequences trying to fulfill the emptiness they feel. Children are born, and its extremely difficult when doing it alone. Once the consequences of not having a husband hit you( extra help), its too late. Thats why I believe that marriage is designed for raising happy healthy children with balance. Those who come from poverty learn lessons the hard way!

[@thepimpjuicex]

RIP KEVIN SAMUELS… he will be greatly missed

[@kanewilliams1653]

What a great talk, heaps of interesting tidbits here. Thanks Kathryn and Maria!

[@josephmak4999]

Kevin Samuels reco'd "Promises I Can Keep" & "Subverted" Gotta look into both

[@Beanie856]

1:10:19 anyone know what she said after the grandmother spoke? The audio cut out.

[@hiqualitychocesp8424]

Does anyone know the actual title for the book she reference @53:30 regarding the service-learning component program requirement? Thanks!

[@annawiegand5650]

What year was this filmed??

[@MysticKenji2]

the first edition of the book apparently came out in 2011, so maybe sometime around then?

[@FrankieSee]

In the q&a they said it was 2005.. which makes sense because the slides had 2004 written on it.

[@jus3278]

I can think of examples of a lot of people I know listening to this and I'm barely 10 minutes in

[@librafever495]

here after KS

[@user-zz8hr1fq3i]

So what's the answer for this question?

[@JFCotman]

Answer @40:00 - 45:00

[@TheRomeerome]

Remove the Welfare state.

[@timagination1295]

When and how did this culture become entrenched! 100yrs ago, there was shame...a woman cannot get pregnant except she is married and when pregnancy happened, marriage almost always followed. That is still the culture in most African and conservative societies...

[@bigblk45]

Can we speak to the type of guys these women are choosing. Drug dealers, guys that have been to jail. "Ripping and running" not the guys in school trying to do the right thing. The boring guys that they want later after they've made something of themselves

[@grantwithers]

Gynocentric culture prevents such talk sir.

[@lorjayy4109]

Idk who you're talking about kind of pseudo self hate if your born in an environment you will share the same mindset every race has the "drug dealer jail" type especially the white community now do they pick wrong yes but if your not tryna change the life then you part of the problem

[@bigblk45]

@@lorjayy4109 I disagree, I'm from the Bronx. I went to school, got a job, joined the airforce and traveled the world. Now I live a good life in Australia. My brother decided to get involved in the drug dealer life and is doing 100 years. Everyone knows right from wrong. You make your choice

[@MAGACOIN]

As Kevin Samuel states “hey big head”. After the mistake the “nerd” or “big head” are now left to pick up the pieces.

[@lorjayy4109]

@@bigblk45 Ok you were able to leave your situation doesn't give u any right to down thoes you used to know nobody ever taught you to forget where you came from if every choice is yours then you choosing to judge is no less feminine and mislead as the woman who pick them your job as an elder is to teach what was taught

[@DavidRichardson28]

Earn 16k bit get 20k from the govt.

[@geejaybee1970]

The "researchers" failed to ask the most important question. WHO PROPOSES MARRIAGE? Men. How many of these women ever received a marriage proposal from the father? Few if any. WHY AREN'T THE FATHERS PROPOSING? Because THE MEN lack financial resources to support a family. It sounds to me like the women responded with rather standard, rehearsed excuses rather than thoughtful answers. What did they expect them to say? Do you really expect a young single mother (many of color) in the inner city to admit to some middle class white lady she doesn't personally know that she never got married because no one ever proposed to her? And that she does not attract stable men who earn a living wage in large part because she is a single mother? Is it possible that these women are really stating that they don't believe marriage is viable for poor people? Did they actually confirm that a marriage at city hall is taboo (I grew up in "the hood". This is a blatant lie. City Hall marriages are not taboo. Neither is a budget Vegas wedding- which is actually considered cool.). The analysis and conclusions seem quite vapid and unexplored. She points out that 50 years ago in the 1950s (which was actually 60 years ago) many of these women would have been married to working class men. She fails to examine the crisis of the working class in the corresponding time period. In the 1950s a man with a 10th grade education could obtain a blue collar job making enough money to support a housewife and kids, buy a house, and get a new car every 2-4 years. Today the jobs available to most blue collar workers don't pay enough to cover the rent on a 2 bedroom apartment. Could the death of living wage blue collar jobs be a factor in the declining marriage rate in such a community? This would be a great topic for a skilled researcher to explore. This group misses the mark by a mile. Juan Williams was the first person to explore the topic and he did a better job at it in his article series 35 years ago. And he was just a newspaper reporter at the Washington Post- not a sociologist. Unfortunately meaningful research on this subject has yet to be done...

[@realpainediaz7473]

Who are the women CHOOSING? The nerd?

[@geejaybee1970]

@@realpainediaz7473 That is nonsensical. Who says women have much choice? Anyways, men do the approaching in dating. They are meeting the men in their environment who approach them.

[@realpainediaz7473]

@@geejaybee1970 No it is valid.

[@johnnyBrwn]

Her study has 5 methodological weaknesses 1.) Selection bias- She surveys pregnant women or women with kids. These low accountability, ego-filled women can simply deflect and say " I love my kids just not boyfriend". She should interview BEFORE pregnancy then 6 years later any who had kids. 2.) Book's conclusion is contradictory - if they love kids so much and they're so meaningful, why place at a disadvantage by producing with such awful men in poverty? 3.) She uses testimony of low SES, traumatized, low educated women and not objective measurements to rest her argument. Did their moms choose proper men? 4.) She never interviews the male to cross reference and determine truth of claims. 5.) Didn't control for the fact that low accountability people KNOW what they did is wrong so they KNOW what to say to deflect from it. She should have included data on other decision making (how did these women spend an entire week before getting pregnant? Test them on books they read? Where do they get information from?)

[@likedacountry]

You should do the study to address the weaknesses!

[@puscifer99]

She has indicated the limitations of the study in her measures and indicated future focuses for studies. If you look at the full research via Google Scholar and Researchgate it outlined it fairly accurately.

[@DavidRichardson28]

They have the kids because they get paid to.

[@icecactus11]

Even in poor countries with no welfare people still shit out kids

[@nancydrew5]

We gonna study poverty, write books and go on speaking engagements. None of this actually solves poverty, but we're definitely gonna study it.🙄 Gotta love these PHD Windbags

[@stephiel38]

You have to study and research an issue before you recommend policy and advocate change. You cannot shoot first and ask questions later.

[@negritoux]

Obviously I can tell you don’t have a PhD or even know how to solve a single problem 😅😅

[@jus3278]

Studying issues is actually important so that we not only understand why they occur, but also so we don't make the same mistakes going forward. Imagine living in a world where things weren't properly researched? Lol...And trust me I get at times the ivory towers can be elitist and exclusive, this is important work that has now caught the attention of one of the biggest KZbin platforms

[@OffCode]

Some of the most unaccountable,male blaming roach crap I've heard this week

[@nancydrew5]

How is it unaccountably blaming the males who approach women saying they want her to have his baby?

[@funkykat9890]

@@nancydrew5 Who gets the ultimate say in the whole ordeal though? Oh yeah it’s the women who choose to spread their legs. 🤡

[@fry292]

​@@nancydrew5 Of course, it's not always the case that the male approaches a woman and says "Hey have my baby" and the woman is kind enough to go "OK THEN!", that's not how becoming a parent *always* works no matter which parent you are.