Why Accuracy Matters in Woodworking - Common Mistakes to Avoid

[@katzmosestools]

Support What we do at the Katz-Moses Tools Store: KMtools.com *Tools Discussed in This Video* *Marking Knife* - shop.kmtools.com/MarkingKnife *Marking Gauge (micro adjust)* shop.kmtools.com/mgbrassma *Marking Gauge* shop.kmtools.com/mrkg *Center Punch* shop.kmtools.com/centerpunch *Blem Squares* lddy.no/120n3 *Blem Rulers* lddy.no/127tj *Double Squares* lddy.no/127tm *Dividers* lddy.no/127tn *Digital Calipers* lddy.no/mpl3 *Bevel Gauge* lddy.no/127tp ---- *Time Stamps* *Intro* 0:00 *Why Accuracy Matters* 0:17 *How I use Tools For Accuracy* 3:49 *Accuracy on the Table Saw* 9:27 *Accuracy on the Drill Press* 13:17 *Accuracy with a Router: 15:20 *Final Thoughts* 16:49

[@jboxner9235]

There is someone using your video without your permission kzbin.info/www/bejne/iojEq6aqmpyUhdU

[@acousticsoundmaker]

Great video. Keep them coming. Chuck

[@Shadoweclipse1386]

Some of these links don't work. I went looking for the marking knife and the center punch, and those two for sure don't work.

[@Fox_Montana]

“Yes i did read it!”, is the answer to your question “Anyone reading this?” On the technical drawing: Pencil Error example”

[@pygar909]

My belief is that accuracy is important, but consistency is more important. If one part is 1/64 off, that will show. If ALL of your parts are 1/64 off, that won't show. When I cut multiple parts, I try and cut them all at the same time with a single machine setup.

[@glittalogik]

This has been one of my key takeaways from Chris Salamone's videos - planning the cutlist in batches of same-size/angle to minimise the opportunities to introduce errors, using already-cut pieces as reference for the next piece instead of assuming that those perfect calcuations have transferred flawlessly to the real world, and where necessary taking multiple passes and test-fits to sneak up on a perfect *fit* instead of aiming directly for what you think is the perfect *measurement*. JKM's advice here is all spot-on for the accuracy half of the equation but like he said himself, the best woodworkers are the ones who can fix their mistakes. Consistency and logical workflows are two of the best ways to do that :)

[@vikassm]

Exactly! Repeatability and Reproduceability are super important for most forms of engineering/manufacturing/quality control/medicine, etc, and woodworking. And metalworking. And cooking. Ok this is getting long 😂

[@alterworks7212]

yeah cause 15 thou means anything in wood lmao

[@vikassm]

@@alterworks7212 Sure. And 640kb is obviously enough for anyone. Why bother with microns when we have inches right? Accuracy, Progress, pffft. All we need is duct tape. And marketing.

[@stephenrichie4646]

Numbers don’t matter. Fit matters. Batch your cuts. Mark directly from mating parts, not indirectly from a measurement.

[@andyjame3350]

Awesome book that gives you step-by-step photos kzbin.infoUgkxTNB_zFBSnTo_O1PqfVUwgi7ityw0JlKt and directions to make every day project. I can see myself making a few of these projects and giving them as housewarming and holiday gifts!

[@sethmariscal3428]

I like how a lot of these suggestions are classic Paul Sellers mantras adjusted for power tool users. Great job JKM!

[@bobd.]

Another advantage to using the marking knife is you cut the wood fibers on the surface so when you make your cut with either a hand or power tool there is much less chance of tear out or splintering.

[@731Woodworks]

Awesome info!

[@katzmosestools]

Thanks Mr Outlaw!

[@jjd-lx5vr]

It’s great to see the KZbin woodworking channels supporting each other. I haven’t seen that anywhere else on this platform.

[@fredastaire6156]

For us simple weekend DIYers this is pure gold!! Thank you Jonathan; I've had the exact problem with compounded errors when making simple drawers for my garage shop. My woodworking game will benefit 10x from just this video alone!! (BTW, love the eStore; I went ahead and picked up a marking gauge and a JKM stop block because I want to be cool like you, good Sir!) Cheers!

[@NickConteSC]

I literally was thinking this morning that the bane of my woodworking existence is inaccurate measuring and cutting, and here you are the same day giving me my solution! You rock!

[@byronhester3956]

So much good information here! I've only recently started using a marking knife and I have found my cuts to be way more accurate. But what you shared with us here is mind-blowing for me! I don't have enough space here to tell you how thankful I am for this well-produced and informative video. Mad love for Mr. Katz-Moses!!

[@plmelvin]

My sentiments exactly!

[@ZacBuilds]

As someone who makes all these mistakes, I feel attacked! 😂

[@katzmosestools]

🤣🤣🤣

[@John.T.]

I swear this entire industry has a vendetta against mechanical pencils lol

[@watnoudan]

YES, we do lol

[@fernard8985]

These are undoubtedly some amazing tips, however i feel like this is addressed to professionals rather weekend woodworkers. Personally, i have contractor level tools and i do my best to make them precise and square them up, but realistically no matter how much time i will spend on precise marking i’m pretty sure most of my cuts will be ~0.5-1mm off due to the imperfections of the tools themselves. If i ever think about making money from woodworking, i will definitely take the advice from this material.

[@jeffhreid]

The pencil cumulative error is absurd. Generally an experienced word worker marks off the corresponding piece rather than adding a bit more on each piece. A marking knife is highly useful but to say you can’t be accurate with a carpenter’s pencil is a bit silly

[@patrickmercante4376]

Jonathan can't even answer simple questions without getting his panties in a bunch. Therefore, I feel compelled not to represent his website. I'm a woodworker that spends a lot of money when I see quality tools. He does provide good videos and has a lot of knowledge, however, he wasn't even man enough to answer my question.

[@TomBuskey]

I never thought I'd be watching the cool Katz-Moses do a self wedgie

[@williamsproat9556]

Regarding setting the saw tooth on the knife line, isn't there still a chance for error due to blade wobble? And is every tooth on the blade absolutely 'set' the same amount?

[@norbertdavis8903]

I found that the most critical tool to eliminate error is my vision. I need glasses for fine work but not general work. When I need to be accurate my glasses are the first thing to reach for.

[@_emanmodnar]

Would be nice with a video showing all the typical and creative ways of finding and marking centers on different objects, distributed marks, symmetrical marks, transferring marks from one piece to another, etc.

[@EpicBenjo]

As a Canadian, we need to have both metric and imperial on our measuring tape, mainly because we live next to the US

[@stevegronsky8904]

Purchased your marking knife after watching this video. No idea why I hadn't gotten one before now.

[@rw7532]

Can marking knives be sharpened and is it something that has to be done on a regular basis?

[@actionjksn]

I make the finest furniture with just a plastic Empire speed square, a carpenter pencil and a 35 foot Stanley FatMax tape measure. It's not a problem for me. All those scratching tools and fancy squares are a bunch of nonsense.

[@katzmosestools]

You're the best and have won woodworking. Congrats!

[@didz2064]

Tolerance stacking - that's what it's call in mechanical engineering

[@Ray_Sellner]

Incremental error. That's what it's called in Quality engineering. ;-)

[@jeffreyhill1011]

On the rare occasion I use a hand saw I found about 20 years ago that, after knife marking my line, to chisel a bevel out the whole way down like you started. It really helps the cut start out good for me as I have roughly 0 points invested in handsawing. EDIT: I have an obsession for marking knives like you do for gauges. To the point where the reason I learned how to forge weld in blacksmithing was to make a "Damascus" pattern welded marking knife. I know have made 8 of them lol.

[@levi35oh]

Ya I don't even cut accurately enough for this to matter to me lol

[@HyperactiveNeuron]

Great video! My college professors would love this. This reminded me of every physics, engineering, chemistry and math lecture about accuracy and precision. I especially appreciated the part about using the same take measure. I would go further than that. You need to do inter-comparisons of your measuring devices and only mix use those that match up and toss out, donate, whatever... Everything that isn't square.

[@ruicunha2439]

10th of an inch.. 8th.. I would start with maybe using metric.. :)) Great video as always tho

[@ruicunha2439]

@Jack W you mean 0.625mm? maybe not so easy I admit, but 0.5mm and even 0.25 are not a prob.. Decimal is just easier than fractional that's not really a discussion I don't think. But we all have preferences and that's ok.. oh yes, a sheet is always 8x6 18mm! love it.. Don't even get me started on stones and dollops..

[@lawrencelunsford6028]

Very well done Jonathan as usual. Your support staff does an awesome job also. I tried to download your free router table plans, had a problem with it, emailed support and had a reply with a new plan link THE SAME DAY! Thank you. Congrats on the new tool venture, I look forward to watching it grow. :)

[@KyKyRyZaKZ]

So basically if you are not so smart to cut on same side of a square. Pay. And it doesn't matter how thick line is as long as it done with same tool against same square. It will be always same. Can go other way round with knifes. As obviously it's 3 finger wood worker... He can't do line always close to square due to uneven of blade = more error and probably will cut himself with it... No offense but it's just pure extreme min max comparison with nonsense pdfs.

[@haqeeqee]

I have a question. How easy is it to fix a line/scratch made with a marking gauge? I’m just a beginner and I know I’m probably overthinking this, but I feel safer using pencils because if I make a mistake with a pencil, I can rub the pencil mark out. But if I make a mistake with a marking gauge, it’d be a lot harder to fix wouldn’t it? I just feel a little scared to mark with a knife. 😖

[@rw7532]

I have the same thoughts. Did you ever get an answer to this somewhere other than this comment section?

[@haqeeqee]

@@rw7532 no unfortunately.

[@SpencleyDesignCo]

AWESOME INFO JONATHAN! I'm so pumped to be able to follow the KMTools journey!

[@MCsCreations]

Fantastic, Jonathan! Thanks a lot for all the tips! 😃 Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

[@Aspire2Cycle]

Just ordered the Marking knife and Gauge from your website! Can't wait to use them.

[@grammesser7362]

Ok, you got me. I just ordered a marking knife, and a few other things from your site. Thanks my dude

[@Nicoya]

Videos like this are always interesting to me, because of the contrast between the almost machinist-like approach to woodworking on one end of the scale, compared to the build-to-fit no-numbers methods of old style hand tool woodworking on the other. I personally lean towards the latter end of the scale, just because all the stuff I do is one-off and it has a nice low-tech appeal to it, but I can definitely appreciate both approaches.

[@kermitfrog6350]

I love my Imperial/Metric tape measures. I use the.metric to measure diagonal square. Much easier and more accurate than the Imperial 16ths...

[@jamestrott2944]

As good as his tips are, I for one am not sure about putting your finger on the top of table saw blade, or on the spindle of the router.Always found it best to run or router a piece of scrap to check for error/ accuracy of setup. Stay safe guys

[@wilhelmtaylor9863]

In my professional engineering mode I use digital calipers. In my wood shop I MUCH prefer dial calipers. If you use them to set a distance (instead of measuring) you will find it vastly easier to set, say, 1.5625" with a dial. You'll dither with digitals and probably never really get it dead on. They never run out of juice, are much easier to read in low light & cost less. Yes, baseline measurements (i.e., 2 distances) require a little arithmetic but I can add and subtract with the best of them and it's not required often. It's also possible to get better than 0.0005" measurements if you can guess how far between the marks the arrow points. I use a 12" Mitutoyo dial caliper in my wood shop and wouldn't trade it for any electronic version.

[@marbleman52]

Wilhelm Taylor...I'm with you; I use my Browne & Sharpe 6" dial calipers all the time. When I need to plane several boards to the same thickness, I always use my calipers to maintain very accurate thicknesses among the boards. I also use the caliper to find depths for various projects. I was a machinist until I retired, so my training in precision naturally followed me when I started woodworking.

[@ronwall9923]

Great illustration Johnathan. Been there done that!!!! Thanks for the awesome content!

[@terrmaso]

I love Taylor Toolworks 👍 My blem 12" combo and 6" double square are in constant use. You are the second person who has referenced using the same measuring device when working. When I did that with my last project, the accuracy was incredible. Most dead on project I have ever created. Love my center punch as well. I always use it when drilling holes. Got tired of my drill bit wandering, especially in softer wood. You are one of the first creators I look at when starting a project and need pointers. You are also the person who helped me see how everything is not "perfect". I had an incredibly hard time with that when I first started and regularly wanted to scrap a project. When you stated that the mistake didn't matter, learning how to fix it did, it changed my outlook and helped me become much less frustrated. Thanks for the great info.

[@joedelislejr.8077]

Wonderful video. I'm curious, though, how often do you check the accuracy of your tools? Not only the table and miter saw, but also your combination squares? Before every project? Once every few months? Randomly?

[@anthonylatino9647]

If the error is consistent, then you will not have an out of square problem, you will have a fit or joining problem. This is why you use only one measuring tape for an entire project. If it is off by 1/8 the entire project - you are ok, but if you are off 1/8 here, 1/32 here or 1/4 there - then you will have an issue - a major one. JKM is right - accuracy is crucial in woodworking, but so is consistency!

[@jamesbarros950]

Me: I'm doing amazing, I can eat only one side of a line and not cross over. I'm becoming a semi-skilled woodworker. Katz-Moses: Here's why the tolerances of a mechanical pencil are crap and your work sucks (but with love)

[@willowspringhill8349]

It’s funny when you talk about accuracy and say ‘point oh five millimeter, .05 mm, which is about .025 inches.’ I don’t think they make a mechanical pencil lead of .05 mm, but if they did, it would be less than .002 inches.

[@epgui]

Why not get a measuring device with both real units as well as imperial? On the one hand I'd rather only work in metric, but so many things from the US are referenced in imperial. I wish you would have explained that.

[@Gbhmagic]

40$ for a marking pen!... ill use exacto.. its just not something I can afford...wait... hey you sell one for 18...happiness rains again..lol im down for the winter as the weather is freezing and my garage is extremely cold.

[@JohnSmith-rl4it]

how accurate must a framing square be as I use it for all my layout? Im looking at one from Lee Valley that says it has an "angular accuracy is ±0.001 radian (1/17°) for the outside edge".

[@BossCrunk]

Cut to fit. You only need tapes and rules when designing the project and making story sticks. Learn to make story sticks even if you don't think you'll ever make that piece again. If you're deep into a complicated piece of furniture, and still measuring stuff to some number, you're solidly on the wrong track. Mark one workpiece directly from another, or pick off the dimension using a gauge of some sort, and/or mark it from your stick. Measuring and cutting everything to a number is what is done in a factory where parts move from one department/one woodworker to another. If you're using canned plans, then only use the overall dimensions of the project and put everything else in on your story stick(s) yourself. This forces you to understand how everything is going to go together and makes all subsequent work so much easier and faster.

[@CyrilViXP]

This inches bullshit looks extremely ridiculous here. This 36.025'' is just 915 mm.

[@researchandbuild1751]

It doesn't matter what tools or how many videos I watch, my accuracy sucks and my projects are always disappointing

[@ABaumstumpf]

Your initial point about the pencil.... you are cutting on the different side of the line...... you can have the exact same error with a marking-knife and the error will be the width of the blade - which is also in the range of 0.5mm. If you cut at the wrong side of the line then the pencil-width is the least of your problems.

[@limestonecowboy9219]

In the Limestone industry we use a carbide tipped scratch all to mark anything..we call it a "hard line". If you just mark in pencil as soon as you wipe your hand or something over it it just wipes it right off.

[@DeZahsterBoon]

Furniture builders aren’t machinists. Use relative measurements, stops, and sneak up when trying to fit one piece into another. This is just stuff for obsessive-compulsives to worry about

[@stephenrees438]

You are a great teacher and a great resource of information for newbs like myself that want to make the leap to the next level of their learning curve. Thank you.

[@Justin-fb7ni]

kept trying to find a video like this for months, and one day youtube decides to suggest it. It's pretty common for this to happen with youtube. there's gotta be a better way to search yt.

[@ThomasKentgaming]

Late comment but I mark a lot of stuff with pencil still but I also will mark a tiny X on the waste side of the cut so I know which side of the pencil line I'm referencing to. It doesn't completely fix the accuracy issue but it sure does help.

[@claptinfan]

Jonathan I have been looking everywhere to figure out what countersink you use. Could you tell me the brand or where you got it? I’m tired of buying cheap ones that break or the stops strip out.

[@dtom3792]

This shouldn't be an issue unless 1 person is marking and another is cutting. If you can't cut on the right side of your line or know to take or keep the line...... well....

[@ericliddon4815]

I love how much I learn from a short amount of time with your videos. Awesome job - I just bought one of your stop blocks and shipped to Canada - was much faster than I expected! Keep up the great work/videos. Glad I can support someone who has thought me so much already.

[@mururoa7024]

Check out the Jessem marking gauge with micro-adjust. It beats the crap out of all other marking gauges.

[@PapaFlammy69]

Let's go baby!

[@kellanaldous7092]

What sort of videos do you create? I've been wondering if there was some sort of channel that teaches math for woodworking. I left school very early and math beyond the basics was never something I was interested in teaching myself, but im clueless about angles and ratios and all the geometry stuff. Frequently working on a project and want to do something but have no idea how to find the solution lol.

[@PapaFlammy69]

@@kellanaldous7092 Math for wood working will play a big role in my channel Flammy's Wood too! :)

[@kellanaldous7092]

@@PapaFlammy69 awesome! Looking forward to it :) 👨‍🏫

[@RichL_WA]

Thank you for that, some great informative content for us beginners 👍🏻

[@alterworks7212]

if you can’t measure wood with a measuring tape you’re a scrub, all my fabrication homies don’t use a marking gauge yet get perfect results

[@johnanthony2545]

Chasing square is an accurate reference lol. Starting of out of square will haunt you through whole project.

[@mahbuburrahman926]

The funny thing is this video was recommended to me by the algorithm after I messed a project up -_- I should've seen this first damn it

[@xjhonshmitx]

Strange. Only seen the knife on KZbin and pencil all over the world at master carpenter shops

[@tylerhunt7714]

What would you recommend for someone who is legally blind and cannot see the cut the marking knife leaves?

[@chadfallon3378]

I learned so much about accurate measurements in this video as a beginner woodworker! Thank you so much Jonathan!

[@mariushegli]

I have nothing to say really, but I appreciate your content, and wish to help with the yt-algorithms.

[@davidtorres5240]

This is amazing information 👏 I'm using every single tip that you shared 🎉

[@zkindinger]

Not to be pedantic but… precision matters in wood working. Accuracy can lead you astray.

[@misterwhite3903]

Rule of thumb, cut to the right of the line. It's what I've been doing for years.

[@messenger8279]

I totally hate those horrible carpenters pencils. Especially when you see someone going over the same line several times.

[@jmoe6402]

Very good video. As a cabinet maker, my accuracy is important.

[@Dextermorga]

I am always buying tools with metric and imperial. Europian in the US

[@spaghettihero]

lol why would you use a Blackwing for marking in woodworking in the first place

[@pattyofurniture100]

The foundation for professional results is accurate marking and measuring tools.

[@blackstars3720]

Lol I wonder how much that festool measuring tape cost him. Their pricing is so over the top smh

[@arkadiuszturek5927]

God bless millimeters, I still don't know how you can live with soooooo weird units

[@ProfessorDIY]

Thank you for the great video but with respect, consistency is much more important than accuracy in my opinion. Thank you.

[@dieselmunkey]

My first thought before he said anything about cutting was "always cut on the same side of the line"

[@letsdostuff7767]

took me a sec to get it when he said "ladies, gents, knock it off." then i had to pause the dang video so i could stop laughing!

[@mitchblackmore5230]

Meanwhile, I'm here watching this as a guy that draws the line on the wrong side of the ruler.

[@justinayers3589]

Thanks for this man. You can make beautiful pieces with quick and dirty measurements, and if you know what you're doing you can get it up to 95% perfect. But the only way to get into 99-100% territory is to go the extra step and be very careful and thoughtful about what you're doing and how it will affect things 5 steps down the line. Understanding cumulative effects really takes your work to a whole new level - it is very easy to not care about 1% off the mark - do that twenty times and you've got a big problem. Excellence lies in accounting for that.

[@islandwills2778]

most of the time you can make small corrections as you go, hell half my projects i dont even know how i am going to do it, just what i want to make and start cutting

[@mattkenney4851]

Hmmm…all I use is pencils for my joinery. Guess it’s not accurate.

[@zbnmth]

combination squares can be adjusted to squareness by filing the nobs on the inside.

[@juanmendoza7487]

Awesome video and info..I need to buy some of these KM hand measuring tools…

[@a32singh]

Nice video, definitely think I'll pick up some of those tools 👍🏽

[@joshdemarco9270]

What is the long thin brass thing with the loop on the end? Is it just a cover for the scratch awl you can see it sitting next to at 6:30?

[@danielpastrana7361]

what was that flat square you had at 7:15? i’ve been looking for one like that for awhile

[@OptimusSatanas]

Thanks for this video. This is one of the areas Ive had some unanswered questions about.

[@nataliehilker]

This is helpful im just getting into woodworking tried my hand at making a sword with my dad

[@scottgozdzialski6478]

I never hear anyone about burning and inch for real accuracy with a tape measure.

[@ponsaravanan]

Extremely valuable tips. Thank you

[@markfarrell1865]

Why don’t you just use stop blocks to cut all pieces that are to be the same length?

[@jaydallas9895]

I never rely on the tape. I am always setting up a jig to make my cuts repeatable

[@wheeliehunter6937]

i don't have a marking knife, but i have a shooting board!

[@davidpalmer5166]

Man......you're a hell of a teacher

[@maxscott3349]

I've done a consistent 30 thou with a tape that looked like that.

[@TimberBiscuitWoodworks]

Great info as always Jonathan! Trying to get better at going for the knife over the pencil myself!