The Gay History Behind Your Favorite Childhood Books

[@KazRowe]

Empower yourself with access to diverse perspectives and stay informed on breaking news by subscribing through my link ground.news/kazrowe for 40% off unlimited access this month with the Vantage Subscription and be the change you want to see.

[@carmendebeer7777]

😮 23:57 😮 23:57 😅😅

[@kylejohnson423]

Living in the American South, the first gay characters I was exposed to were big gay al from South Park and Will from Will and Grace. I knew I couldn't be gay because I had no interest in feminine things. That's when my dad showed me Mad Max 2.......

[@dylanmcdermott1110]

@@KazRowe Thank you for this vid. I love your channel.

[@tracychristenson177]

I have a blog about nostalgic children's and young adult books, and I'm always interested in the topic of children's literature. There's a book that I would be interested in hearing your opinion about. It's a public domain book from the 1890s, available online through Project Gutenberg, called A Sweet Girl Graduate by L. T. Meade. It's about a young lady from a poor family who is going to a college for young ladies because she has younger sisters to support (they are currently living with her aunt), and she needs an education to get a job as a teacher. During her first year at college, she becomes involved with a wealthy and popular girl in her boarding house whose charisma makes her the center of some unhealthy devotion from fellow classmates and who is kind of a toxic friend at first. This book is basically Dark Academia from over 100 years before that became the popular aesthetic it became in the early 2020s. There are themes about wealth and social class, the conflicts between people who seek out higher education for social reasons vs those who are serious about their studies and future careers (the book emphasizes that this concept was a radically new one for girls of this era), and unhealthy obsessions and personal relationships. The reason why I'd be interested in your opinion is that some of the overly obsessive friendships that the girls develop for each other sound like they could be implied as having romantic elements, which would be scandalous in a Victorian novel, but there's also a lot there about a kind of cult of personality that's been going on at this college. The characters seem somewhat aware and somewhat unaware of the reasons behind some of their own emotions. I'd just be curious to see how the relationships in the story read for you.

[@sarahedwards7497]

Would you please do a video on the dynamic between Timon and pumbaa from The Lion King? My daughter when she was in kindergarten defend it a little girl in her class who had two moms... Stating that Timon and pumbaa we're both Daddy's and they both adopted Simba and he became a king. My kid even stated if it wasn't for Timon and pumbaa showing Simba so much love and acceptance/understanding he would not have grown into the person and he was and needed to be to go home. He would have died in the desert or he would have been depressed and lonely and turned out like his uncle. She is very expressive and I remember it like it was yesterday her teachers were so proud of her. Anyways I really do think you should Explorer the dynamic between Timon and pumbaa because they do have three movies.

[@aeriselove]

I want “no one is born hating, it’s taught to them” on my WALL

[@thomasdevine867]

"Before you are six, or seven, or eight/ to hate all the people your relatives hate./ Oh you must be carefully taught."

[@thedepthsofrepair]

Tell that to the parents of the first-born who want to kill their younger sibling 😅

[@micaelamorrigan2544]

​@@thomasdevine867from South Pacific, right? I was just thinking of this song when she said that

[@thomasdevine867]

@micaelamorrigan2544 Yes. After the Nurse has her breakdown, the Frenchman asks "why?" The song "You must be carefully Taught" is the answer.

[@emilyrln]

@@thomasdevine867it's one of my favorite songs of theirs. The pairing of a sweet, simple melody with such a vital piece of understanding is truly beautiful, and I have a hard time thinking of other songs that have managed a similar feat. I'm sure they exist and would love to hear them, if anyone has recommendations!

[@Coffbeans]

Saw snufkin and moomin on the thumbnail and was instantly fixated lmao

[@piaonomata9220]

IMMEDIATELY clicked on this...I am so stoked, since just a couple of vids back I was begging Kaz to do a bio vid on Tove Jansson. 🥰

[@thistle3]

Same

[@emilygilbeyful]

I mean I watch all of her videos anyway but anyone who knows me knows I'm a moomin person 😂

[@syystomu]

I didn't even notice Snufkin and Moomin, I just saw Tove and clicked so fast

[@icedceilin]

Me fr

[@JC-gb5nv]

Just letting you guys know, there Is a FROG AND TOAD SHOW AND IT HAS A MOST WONDERFUL SOUNDTRACK(and they are so in love and they hold hands)

[@danielcouturier85]

I was the compositing supervisor on that show!!!

[@l0vecrime]

WHATTT

[@espeon871]

@@danielcouturier85FR??? PLS SPILL

[@Kenzalina_]

@@danielcouturier85I can’t tell you how much I loved those books and that show! Thank you for being a part of my son’s childhood. 😊 * Edit forgot to add my son. So it sounded like I was still a child. I feel like I am when I watch it though.

[@cavitycretin]

do you know where you can watch it?

[@SkyeID]

The people who say, "think of the children!" don't really care about the children. They care about their own beliefs and hating everything they don't understand. "Kids need to be protected" indeed. But some of those kids need to be protected from their bigoted parents, who won't let their 4 year old wear dresses because "those are girl's clothes", and won't accept their 13 year old who came out as gay because "he's too young to know". EDIT: I was not expecting this level of 👍 and responses over something I said! But it is a heated topic.

[@danman6431]

What you say is true but this is not to undermine the fact there are a lot of inappropriate lgbtq books in middle school, high schools that have content that is very inappropriate. They would never get away with that if the books were about straight people.

[@ChristopherSadlowski]

​@@danman6431 um, if kids don't know about sex by the time they're in middle school...that's a bigger problem than having books about queer sex and love in the library. You know, one of the points of sex ed is to remove stigma from sex and sexuality. It also helps orient kids to understand what is healthy and what isn't. By the time they're in middle school they should be educated enough to read a book and say to themselves, "this gay relationship seems healthy/unhealthy." Coming across queer sex and love in their lives isn't going to automatically change them. What it does do is give them a chance to put to words how they're already feeling. And by high school? You do know most kids in high school are having sex with each other...right? "Inappropriate" books by that point aren't terribly "inappropriate" when those students are actively doing it and experiencing the real thing.

[@danman6431]

@@ChristopherSadlowski There is a difference between teaching what sex is (My middle school literally did not have sex ed idk what middle school does) and straight up smut/soft core pronography. Its still books that detail sexual actions to kids who are like between the ages of 11-14. For high school it was just straight up smut books in my library. And I am not talking about lovey dovey books it was like real raunchy shit. If it was for seniors I would not care but again a 14-15 could get their hands on some smutty ass books Its still essentially pornographic material for a under 18 being checked out for a under 18 audience. The city library down the road for such books you had to be at least like 16 and have a parent note. You should seriously be investigated if you see no problem with material being distributed for middle schoolers though.

[@forty_two42]

​@danman6431 middle school and high school books dealing with raunchy heterosexual topics exist. So idk what you mean about never getting away with it in straight books. Looking for Alaska has been getting banned by some angry parent every year since like 2007 because of the blow job chapter. Also my public library had Cherry comics which is porn but you had to be 18 to borrow it. That didn't stop me and my buddies from sneaking over and grabbing them and just reading them in the library. You seem like you're willfully ignoring things if you think this is a strictly lgbtqia+ issue in adolescent accessible literature

[@reneedailey1696]

​@danman6431 Gently, you're the only person who needs to be investigated if you're this invested in ignoring reality and hyperfocusing on *consensual sex* as a negative when it's Queer and not straight. Your school not having sex ed has obviously created inaccurate and toxic ideas about sexuality for you, and while understandable, it's not sustainable and in the long run is damaging. I hope you unlearn this stigma.

[@empressmarowynn]

In my toddler classroom the other day I had four boys and one girl in a group. All the boys insisted on putting on princess dresses and prancing around the room, spinning and pretending to be ballerinas. When they went up the stairs of our little playhouse they made sure to daintily pull up the fronts of their dresses just like a princess. Meanwhile the little girl was chilling in the playhouse reading a book. No parents or children walking past had a single thing to say about it. When the boys' parents were told later they thought it was adorable. One dad was even super excited because the mom used to be a ballet teacher so they're hoping their son is developing an interest too. I wish for more parents like these all over the world, raising their kids to be comfortable with themselves no matter what.

[@CorwinFound]

My youngest (now 15) was best friends with a super girlie little girl in playschool. He roped her into playing trucks and she roped him I to playing princesses. One night at my in-laws, who are a bit regressive, a bit stodgy and old fashioned, my kid went into the spare room and came out with a satin lined blanket wrapped around him shiny side out, a jury rigged tiera and announced, with a total pose, "I'm a pretty princess!" I was a wee bit nervous at the in-laws reaction. But my father in-law, a blue collar, super masc guy in trades exclaims, "No Marcus, you _aren't_ a pretty princess.... You are the _prettiest_ princess!" Then the entire family was getting him to twirl and asking about his princess life. Times are changing. Sometimes it seems too slow and a step back for every two forward but if my kid's grandparents, not known for their progressivism, can handle my four year old boy playing princess without batting an eye, then things aren't all bad.

[@strawbeare]

I was afraid this story was going to turn sad, I’m glad those kids have good parents

[@cookeepuff]

Lovely! Thank you for sharing this!

[@Thelastunicornlover]

🥰❤️

[@melaspink2535]

this is so sweet.

[@NouveauArtPunk]

As a children's bookseller and a certified big fat gay, this was made for me. I'm always waxing poetic about the gayness of canonical children's books to my clientele lol

[@abbyd2029]

certified big fat gay is so funny 😭

[@OnionBorn]

Big Gay Al is that you?

[@ScarlettBloodletter]

Snorted out loud at "certified big fat gay" 😂

[@unnotabelle]

Just a note! Hazel Marr doesn't show up in Anne of Green Gables, but in one of its sequel novels, Anne of Windy Poplars. Her statement of love to Anne is especially buck-wild because it's one of the first things she says, having never been mentioned at all before she first appears mid-way through the book. She literally pops in for a couple of chapters to cause some wild drama, and then is never seen or heard from again. Montgomery just really, really wanted a girl to confess her love to Anne I guess.

[@NickNightfall1711]

I haven't read that book in years and forgot all about that but you brought it all back and made me laugh for a solid minute straight with this comment. 😂 Thank you for that. 😂

[@TheDopekitty]

I really need to reread the Anne books. I grew up with those

[@gnostic268]

I read all those books and so did my youngest child but I had forgotten about Hazel. I know there are channels who read the Anne books but Idk if they have read Windy Poplars books. Now I have to go to the used book store and pick up a copy to re-read it for myself.

[@194californiagirl]

I just recently read this book & she does confess her love to Anne & talks about how she isn't interested in her boyfriend & wants to travel abroad. When Anne tells Hazel's boyfriend this & they break up, all of Hazel's love for Anne turns to hatred. Then Hazel & her beau presumably go on to get married. It was a very confusing part of the book. I'm glad that there was some queer representation but being that it was written in the early 1900s the context for queerness would be different from what it is now.

[@BeppyCat]

But we know Diana was the true kindred

[@originofclothing]

I’m a librarian in a middle school, when I first came in 2 years ago the first thing I did was make a section of books with LGBTQ+ representation of all kinds and have books where the storyline isn’t just about the character coming out. I’ve had such a positive reaction and it makes me so happy when kids tell me that they love the section and that they feel seen❤️🏳️‍🌈

[@Ayem427]

You're doing the work we all need done, thank you so much for all you do ♥️

[@1Avatar]

you should be proud

[@draig2614]

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 ❤️🧡💛💚💙💜

[@danman6431]

Thanks for having books about characters more than coming out it such a lame trope I hate reading/watching when there is a gay, bi, lesbian character.

[@ChristopherSadlowski]

Oof, I could have used this when I was a kid in the 80s and 90s. But I'm glad some kids, somewhere, have this right now. It must help make their lives and feelings a little easier to understand, and helps them feel the kind of "normal" straight people get by default.

[@cairosene]

in tears over your cat crying in the background for like 8 minutes. i love her

[@lauraa7042]

I just paused the video bc I thought it was my cat crying 😂

[@Grace-er9ep]

Same. I love her contribution

[@marktaylor9975]

Cat fan here too. Totally glad to see her and her final contentment.

[@1Avatar]

I have one of those and they are SOO cute when they belong to someone else 3am screaming fest is NOT cute.

[@JG-pt3xe]

She wants to give her thoughts on the subject

[@nattmazzoni]

For a group of people that preach that a child learning about gay people will make them sexualized, these adults really were constantly trying to push ME into having interest in heterosexual sex, when I really was never interested in sex at all! (I'm aro ace)

[@CorwinFound]

Yep. My 15 year old recently came out as ace and I've been having to pretty constantly run interference with my family. I don't know what they'd say to him directly but I'm getting all the annoying comments. I've even had my own adult queer friends make those same comments. It's very frustrating. But I'm hoping that over the next 5-10 years when the social pressure will peak with allosexual expectations for him that there will be more acceptance of people in the aro/ace spectrum.

[@wingedhybrid16]

Right there with ya, fellow ace. Too many times I had to correct people as a teenager when they perceived my lack of "boy-crazy" behavior to mean that I was a lesbian. Including my own parents. I had no idea that "no thanks" was even an option until my mid-twenties. Until then, society and those around me, lead me to believe that there was something wrong with me because I wasn't as obsessed with sex as they were. Like, dude, I just want to be left alone and do what I wanna do. I have a hoard to cultivate.

[@chrissyschhhh]

My favorite teacher was my kindergarten teacher, she would read a lot of these books to us. Her girlfriend was also a teacher, and their relationship being normalized to us by her and our parents at a young age was so important.

[@aazhie]

That's wonderful to hear

[@aliadrift]

It's not exactly the same, but when I was in 2nd grade, I had two female teachers. No one ever said this to me, but as a 2nd grader, I just assumed they were married.

[@hungryepicboys8895]

As a str8 little kid doing ballet in Florida I totally related to the bit about adults being uncomfortable about children not falling into gender roles. Knew a lot of conservative dads who did not want me being friends with their sons back then just because I was one of three boys doing dance in that town, even if I also played lots of other sports and was traditionally masc in most ways

[@micaelamorrigan2544]

Makes me think of the movie Billy Elliot

[@neverxnice3577]

That really really really sucks, that's so tough to cope with at that age too, having others push a sexuality on you is awful.

[@gnostic268]

I've become anti-ballet ever since my granddaughters have been taking ballet classes and a local ballet foundation (The Tallchief Foundation formed by the late Maria Tallchief, a former prima ballerina)... decided to promote them (we are Native and they live in Oklahoma) in a photoshoot in Ballet Magazine. The photographers told my eldest granddaughter that she needed to lose 8 pounds. Her younger sister is much shorter and has a smaller frame and shorter legs. My elder granddaughter was 6 years old at the time and a leukemia survivor with long legs and broad shoulders. My son and daughter in-law told the foundation and ballet magazine "no thanks we are not putting our daughter on a restrictive diet at the age of 6 to make you happy." Ballet can be unnecessarily harmful to young dancers, imo.

[@chrissnyder8108]

You and Patrick Swayze have nothing to fear about being masculine enough; male ballet dancers have to have immense strength and control of nearly every muscle of their bodies. They can probably outdo most other men in feats of athleticism, assuming they are still in the peak of their dancing career, which is very hard on their bodies. You'd think after all the ultra-masculine heroes Patrick played in his great movies, there would be less BS about male ballet dancers not being manly enough, but some guys still have fragile egos and have minds stuck in the dark ages.

[@katanaki3059]

So you were cool and attractive to both sexes!

[@essi9781]

I definitely do not hate you for planning a video on Tove Jansson. I'll happily wait for it. Tove is my favourite author and one of my favourite artists. I'm Finnish and I met her a few times during my childhood and teenage years and she really was a true, genuine artist and had an incredible talent of reading people. Her book "Tales from Moominvalley" has a story called 'The Fillyjonk who believed in disasters' which, and I'm not exaggerating, is the most important piece of literature for me. That one story changed my life when I was 15. I still read it once or twice a year.

[@Anarchivist343]

That is amazing that you met her! I have some fillyjonk in me too but the character I relate to the most is the Groke as a long term depressive. I saw that character and felt so seen!

[@piaonomata9220]

Will also wait happily and patiently if I know a deeper-dive paean to Tove Jansson is in the pipeline. She has meant so much to me as well throughout my life. I think I saw little shades of myself in most of her characters at one point or another...I aspire to be Too-ticky, but in all honesty am probably closer to a cross between Little My and Sorry-oo. I COMPLETELY sympathize with relating to "The Fillyjonk Who Believed in DIsasters", though. That one hit me square between the eyes as a kid, as did most of the stories from Tales from Moominvalley. The one about Moomintroll and the dragon he simply could. not. get. to like him--and then he has to stand by and watch while the dragon attaches itself to Snufkin--ACK, that was right on the nose for me. The Invisible Child. The Hemulen who Loved Silence. The little Whomper with the runaway imagination. Sniff and Cedric. I loved that entire book, and the rest of her books...including the non-Moomin ones.

[@lopsupopsu]

Omg sä oot tavannu Toven 😨 jossain muumitapahtumissa? Puhuitteko suomea vai ruotsia?

[@erikdaniels0n]

Exactly. It’s clear Kaz has so much love and respect for her and her work that can’t be done justice in a video like this

[@danielcouturier85]

I had the privilege to work on the Frog and Toad show for apple tv❤it was such an amazing production

[@jamesoniris2647]

There should be a law that everyone Anita Bryant is discussed or mentioned- the clip of her getting a pie in the face and then her crying about it should always be played

[@Ayem427]

Seeing her get pied is always a treat, she's a gargoyle of a person

[@cocoaorange1]

Hitting someone with a pie is cruel.

[@andeverytimewekiss]

@@cocoaorange1i don’t disagree, but i’d also argue that trying to repeal ordinances that prohibit discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation and actively trying to set gay rights back in a way that would do actually harm to real people is more cruel. but yes, it wasn’t very nice when they hit her with a pie.

[@Nic0Dr4ws]

As someone who got pied in middle school for fundraising, it actually doesn’t hurt at all. hope this helps!

[@andeverytimewekiss]

@@cocoaorange1i don’t disagree, but i’d also argue that trying to repeal ordinances that protect against discrimination on the basic of sexual orientation and actively rallying against the advancement of gay rights in a way that did real harm to real people is more cruel. but yes, it wasn’t very nice when they hit her with a pie.

[@crazyratlady3115]

Children 200 years ago were what, working in the mines at six years old, watching their mother give birth to siblings conceived in the one room where the whole family lived and then watching those siblings die of consumption. I think "Sometimes people love each other and want to live together and help each other with stupid boring adult things like ironing and taxes" is a concept that modern children will be absolutely fine with.

[@korecfirk]

Here in Argentina we have María Elena Walsh who wrote so many kids stories, poems and music we all grew up with and lived most of her life with her partner Sara Facio who just recently passed away

[@sorentothesky]

she's literally the good counterpart of a CERTAIN guy with the last name walsh

[@danterbanter]

anyone else find the sound of cicadas kinda soothing? for me, it evokes the same feeling i feel when i hear the mourning doves sing-like suddenly i’m 5 years old again and i’m catching lizards in the hazy summer dusk :)

[@missvioletnightchild2515]

I'm from the south of France where we get them every summer - I no longer live there but it makes me so happy when I go back and hear them ❤

[@annestrasko7581]

What's funny is I thought the cicadas in the video were just the cicadas outside my window, so I didn't even notice because the sounds were coming at me from both sides.

[@shawnpeterson3386]

Mourning doves are a key memory of my childhood. They're nesting around my house. It's so soothing.

[@thedepthsofrepair]

I find it reassuring. It feels timeless and sends a signal to relax. Until some kid starts complaining that it's sooooooo loud and they don't like it and then I become irritated myself because that's a real spoiled brat 🙀

[@lydiasims6412]

the cat, the cicadas, talking about cozy picture books, sorting rock samples at work, i feel so connected to child me who didnt know anything about themselves

[@Ren-kw8cg]

When you explained your experience with covering your actual attraction(s) as "picking out the only boy who was nice to you" as a comphet move, I felt that. 100% did the same thing, too. Except from an Ace lens of "oh shit… I guess I've got to pick my... boy....? Y'all weren't joking about this? Fine. That one."

[@onbearfeet]

Same. But he was also my best friend and a genuinely kind person, so I figured, well, if I have to marry someone, it might as well be someone nice who also likes books. He was extremely not into the idea, but he ALSO didn't really want to date anyone in middle school, so we were each other's beards for a while. We let people think we were "together together" and kept on riding our bikes to the comic shop on Saturdays. In hindsight, I think having an ace girl for a bestie was good for him as a straight boy. When he got to high school, he was almost not weird about girls at all.

[@corndogonasticc]

THAT ONE, FETCH ME THEIR SOUL 👹

[@kestreldomann2787]

23:53 wait a minute... Does that mean Loebel TURNED THE FRIGGING FROGS (and toads) GAY?????

[@Nothingtoseehereanyway]

HAHAH the original turn the friggin frogs gay!

[@communismisfreedom]

If this doesn't get thousands of.likes😢

[@viivi4196]

as a finnish moomin fan, I am SO excited to watch this!

[@piaonomata9220]

As an American who's been a Moomin fan for over 45 years...me too!! 🥰

[@devinq4605]

The bullies knowing it before you do thing is definitely real. Funnily enough in like 5th grade, other kids told me that gay meant happy so i went around coming out as happy, including to a boy I had a massive crush on at the time, although I didn't realize that until last year lol.

[@RobinGoodfell]

I was crushing on Peter Pan while simultaneously wanting to be peterpan, same for Alice in wonderland, and then Tim Burton’s mad hatter, and Merida from brave. It was genuinely confusing. I remember having a conversation with my mother when she picked me up from school somewhere between 2nd and third grade. I was trying to express I didn’t really feel like I fit with the girls or that I fit with the boys. I only had the most basic concept of gender so the words I used were “Tom boy” and “girly girly”. She told me that was okay, and that people can exist in all kinds of ways, and that she wasn’t a tomboy or a girly girl. While she definitely meant that under the umbrella of womanhood, I really appreciated that, and it helped me accept myself in that moment. I didn’t realize until college that I was pansexual and non-binary. I was so very lucky to have parents that always treated me as myself. Not as a gender. So many people aren’t that lucky. While I wish we could trust all parents to raise their children to exist as themselves, I’ve learned from comparing my childhood with others that you just can’t. Adults who do not accept themselves will not accept their children either. It’s so very important that children learn that there IS a place for them in this world. And that they aren’t alone.

[@susannairisastarte5192]

And this isn't new. We didn't have the terminology when I was a little kid in the 70s. But I grew up to realize I am bi, genderqueer, and Grey Ace Demi. ❤ Fantastic video 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️

[@dragonaquarius7745]

Joke's on Anita Bryant, the gays built Miami Beach.

[@marienumber2]

Kaz you literally never have to apologize for your cat

[@chloel4322]

As a student at Hollins University, I feel obligated to mention that Margaret Wise Brown is our most treasured alum. We’re a super small HWC and more than half of us are queer. We put on a production of Goodnight Moon every four years and it’s a huge tradition around here. We also have a Margaret Wise Brown Award for writing. It’s super cool to see her celebrated for her queerness and talent.

[@angelof8th]

I LOVE Tomie dePaola so much. I grew up in a town next to the one he lives in and he used to visit our school sometimes. He was an incredible man

[@idunnobutyay2520]

I love him too, although I sadly never got to meet him. His illustration style is so soothing, and I love the 26 Fairmount Avenue books

[@queenmotherhane4374]

Tomie DePaola grew up half a mile from my house! My daughter and I adored “Strega Nona,” and were delighted to learn that Tomie is a native son. Our library’s children’s section is named after him. He came back to town every few years to give talks (including little art lessons) and sign books. He was a lovely man and is deeply missed.

[@fluffyworm]

38:05 Yes I agree I was so shocked when a religion teacher in my school claimed that being gay is a sin and an illness. I was around 11 and that time and really liked the idea of two female characters from a cartoon being together. That really shocked me because I never thought that there is something "wrong" about liking the person of the same gender.

[@kiasax2]

Being Indigenous has colored the manner of my parenting. Many of the books I used to read to my 2 daughters were oriented to my Native view of the world. Often, I had stories from my culture to simply tell my daughters. However, when I did read books to them the writer and illustrator Paul Goble was a favorite of theirs. Mr. Goble took Tribal stories and adapted them into his books. His illustrations are very beautiful and they kept my daughters enraptured, as they did me as well. If anyone reading this has children who are interested in Native cultures, Paul Goble's books are fascinating and richly illustrated. I have no issue recommending Mr. Goble's books from an Indigenous man's perspective. Frankly, a person's sexuality is their own choice. It has never mattered to me at all. I have had so many gay friends over my life, a few of whom have offered to introduce me to gay sex, which was very complimentary, though I had no interest. They weren't insistent at all and took my lack of interest well. Also, while I'm Indigenous, I'm a Southern gentleman and therefore well mannered. Thus, I was considerate in my refusal of their offers. You seem to always have topics that are fascinating, wado, or thank you in English for doing that. Blessings to you all. 🪶🪶👍🏻🪶🪶

[@TheTaiylorWallace]

Your wrap-up about our queer elders having always secretly held out hands was so inspiring, Kaz. You're an incredible storyteller

[@Tally_y]

Toad and Frog were gay and I truly hope they get mentioned

[@Tally_y]

YES THEY ARE WOOOO

[@merrillsunderland8662]

Viewer, they spend the first two minutes talking about Frog and Toad ❤

[@Tally_y]

@@merrillsunderland8662 yeah, I was commenting on the title as the video started

[@rubydown3329]

You couldn't watch the first 1 minute before commenting, could you 😂

[@Tally_y]

@@rubydown3329 nope!! I was excited lol

[@michaeltonus3888]

"Anti-Sports" is an excellent euphemism for gay. "Well you know what they say about Simon, he's....anti-sports."

[@oliviawolcott8351]

the fact that I grew up in a very conservative environment, one that was sheltered from anything considered queer, and yet I'm trans and gay says a lot. like sheltering us is not going to stop us from being ourselves.

[@SiiriCressey]

I remember reading The Hiding Place (Corrie Ten Boom) when I was about thirteen. There's a part where very young Corrie's mother brings her to funeral preparations for a teenager, where the body is quite visible. Someone uses a line from a poem about dying without the stain of sex-sin. Corrie asks what that means, + the adults get embarrassed + dodge around really answering. Later, she learns + is struck by the oddness of being fine with exposing a young child to death, but considering sex to be an inappropriate subject for them to even know about.

[@archiecraven6086]

I remember this quite well; I think it was a baby who died. When she asked about “sex-sin” her father said nothing and then asked her to pick up a heavy bag. When she told him she couldn’t, he said it was the same way with knowledge - he would have to carry it for her. After seeing the dead baby, she realized how odd it was that a society who was so keen on shielding children from sex made no effort to shield them from death. CTB had an incredible story.

[@Geospasmic]

One of my absolute favorites as a child was Owl At Home, another one by Arnold Lobel. Owl was sentimental to tears about objects, scared of his feet and felt bad for the snow storm being stuck outside. I felt him in my soul.

[@CherieMonique5]

You: If you throw a pebble in a room with 6 gay artists, you’ll hit 7 gay artists. Me: 😆💀.

[@maxinelives]

i love every video i have ever watched of yours but as a queer mother trying to raise her son with the openness and care that i was denied as a child i appreciate this one a little extra and i love you a lot kaz! thank you

[@kestreldomann2787]

God you talking about how you learned you were a lesbian was SO similar to me discovering I was Bi. I know it's not that different from every other queer kid experience but when you were talking about liking staring at Flora WinxClub it brought me back to when I was 7-10 and "just thought Shego was neat" and was a little too obsessed with Lava Girl SharkboyandLavaGirl for someone who had never seen the movie.

[@starparodier91]

Same! The Road to El Dorado was an incredibly confusing movie for me. I remember watching it in theaters and thinking, “am I supposed to find all these characters attractive? Is that allowed?!” 😂

[@micaelamorrigan2544]

​great movie. Loved that one😊

[@micaelamorrigan2544]

I didn't know until i was 20-25. Didn't even realize it was an option. Started exploring on my own through movies and tv shows and realized, yeah, i feel attracted to women. It was a huge revelation for me. I do remember inklings from my childhood that would indicate it but.....

[@TheoRae8289]

I was right in the middle of the Sailor Moon resurgence of the late 90s, and I was borderline feral about the lesbian Outers ahead of their debut and censorship. It ended up being the one thing that also was unanimously liked by all four of us, so mama got us stuff if she found it. My siblings still have our VHS Black Dream Hole.

[@flowerchild2496]

FROG AND TOAD MENTION!!! I used to make my dad read that all the time, he always did the best voices. (Hes still alive, im just not a child anymore)

[@thesamwisegamegee]

14:45 “if I had had media like we have today I’d have hated myself less…” I am so happy for the queer kids who get to grow up with media like the Owl House or the Netflix She-Ra or Steven Universe.

[@kathryn2327]

There is an NPR interview with Maurice Sendak that breaks my heart (I’m pretty sure it was his last public appearance before he died) but I love it so much. Would recommend to anyone it is 100% worth listening to ❤💔

[@Gaycatmom]

That interview means so much to me. I was just about to comment how much it made me cry but also filled me with hope (and is something I reflect back on when I get death anxiety) It was one of the first ever examples I ever heard of a queer couple staying together for their whole lives. He was one of my absolute favorite childhood authors, but hearing that interview as a teenager was just as important to me as Where The Wild Things Are was as a 6 year old.

[@janicebelfiore856]

My son loved Where the Wild Things Are

[@colleen3690]

me looking at the final fantasy part 2 game books with all the costume changes for all the girls and being like " ah yes, very interesting costume design, that is why i like looking at these so much, no other reason"

[@AkiVainio]

Being Finnish, Tove Jansson was always a big part of my life despite being boringly straight.

[@happyrobot4160]

Just want to shout out Craig of The Creek bc it wasn’t mentioned in the modern kid show’s section! A great show with a ton of canon queer characters as well as characters of different cultural backgrounds, if you haven’t seen it I really recommend!

[@minicle426]

Found it forgettable frankly.

[@TheGrinningViking]

Dear gods, the cat is clearly the star - pick that cutie up and give them a snuggle.

[@onbearfeet]

I didn’t read most of these as a kid (I was the weirdo who read Hamlet in third grade), but just seeing Tomie dePaola's name gave me such a warm feeling. He was such a constant presence in the local library that he became a kind of imaginary friend to me, even though I leapfrogged over his actual body of work. Finding out he was under the rainbow flag with me made me love him even more. Also, Mila is merely reminding you of your contractual obligation to include her majestic perfection in every video you make. We viewers need our Mila fix!

[@TheoRae8289]

I read Poe in first, so don't feel too weird. you're not alone by a long shot :D

[@ladyredl3210]

As a young child I was obsessed with Harriet the Spy and learning as an adult that the author was a lesbian made so much sense to me. It made me feel connected again to the story.

[@misspinkpunkykat]

In the George & Martha cartoon in the late 90's/early 2000's, George was voiced by Nathan Lane, an openly gay actor.

[@Lennon9191]

28:55 I love Goodnight Moon; oh my gosh it was my favourite book when I was a child I still have it. My mom used to read it to me and then she let me read it because she kept reading it to me. It’s my favourite book I’ve ever had. I still have it to this day. I think I got it as a gift!!

[@idunnobutyay2520]

I loved that one and The Runaway Bunny

[@Lennon9191]

@@idunnobutyay2520 I’ve never heard the book “The Runaway Bunny?” I’ve never heard that book before.

[@ssteloca]

Okay but those cicadas briefly gave it a “super hot summer anime episode” vibe and I think that’s neat!

[@btothe]

Kaz, thank you so, so much for describing how you recognized you are a lesbian as you came through the haze of compulsorily heterosexuality. I've never heard anyone else describe such a similar journey, thank you so much for that much needed validation, sometimes this feels so lonely. 💜

[@coryrain]

I'm at work crying over Frog and Toad. Man I just love Lobel so much. I've never read Moomin, but I'm looking forward to a video on it. Your passion for it was obvious! ❤

[@lmc689]

I made a joyful noise when you mentioned Kipo (and the age of wonder beasts)! I never hear people talk about it so even though it was only a mention it's nice to see that Kipo isn't totally forgotten.

[@sofiamielcitas4224]

not the queer elders holding our hands all along omg!!! 😭♥️😭♥️😭

[@elucia1202]

I have two kids, both with ASD and one non-verbal, so we're big fans of books that help people feel accepted. And yes, we have many of the books mentioned in this fantastic video.

[@soap-nb6yd]

YESSSS!!!!!!!! saw the title and clicked SO FAST!!! i have a deep deep love for picture books. i even work at a picture book museum! they are so worthwhile. such incredible history and cultural value. i love picture books.

[@jr3wx]

Your cat provided us with such interesting additional commentary on top of yet another of your barn-burner well-researched videos! I was too young at the time to remember for sure now but it's likely that my uncle George, who died when I was little and who my parents waited until I was almost an adult to tell me was gay, gave me my beloved copy of George and Martha.

[@bluelime83]

Being queer and from florida, thank you ❤

[@cafeAmericano]

Being polka dot and from Tucson I also am fond of said video

[@micaelamorrigan2544]

Same😊

[@OhNoBohNo]

Aye 💖

[@FishareFriendsNotFood972]

Bert and Ernie being a couple is the redemption arc for my gay childhood that I did not expect, but am so happy for

[@TheoRae8289]

I swear they were the reason I didn't end up a self-hating phobe, with my environment growing up. (and by extension couples sometimes needing separate beds--thank you "ernie with the cookies" vignette)

[@Raindrop2424]

I have a running list on my phone of authors/books I loved as a kid that I as an adult learnt were gay. And I love every new discovery 💗

[@mumplaysthesims8396]

I love how you describe your experiences as a child, helps us parents try to support our kids abit better

[@nathanstanfield4695]

21:55 Mark Saltzman wasn't actually the creator of Bert and Ernie, though he did write for them for 15 years from 1984 to 1999. Bert and Ernie were created by Jim Henson and Frank Oz, who were also the inspirations and performers for the characters. After this very article came out, Oz said that he disagreed with the interpretation of them as a gay couple because they were meant to be a representation of his friendship with Jim. Though after much debate with the fans, Oz did eventually come to appreciate what a queer reading of the duo means to people and accepted the interpretation as valid despite not being his intent.

[@streamtheshapeshiftingfox3659]

Harriet the Spy is my favorite childhood book, and Harriet herself as a protagonist is the main reason why. Everyone talks about how ‘unlikable’ she is, when I see a realistic child, including the less palatable side of children, who is likely queer and autistic. Her behavior was VERY relatable to me as a little autistic girl, and surprise surprise, I ended up being a lesbian too. She’s blunt. She’s routine-obsessed. She struggles to understand her fellow classmates. I never felt quite so connected as a kid to a book’s main protagonist until I read Harriet the Spy. I’m not surprised the book was so controversial (gasp, children having flaws beyond ‘naive’) but regardless of how many aspects of the book haven’t aged well, I cannot thank Fitzhugh enough, even though she died before I was born, for her contribution to children’s literature.

[@tyleranderson4852]

This is such a great topic! I remember all of the books you mentioned. My experience was one of the “true love waits” era circa late 90s . I knew i liked boys but also felt the pressure to have a girlfriend. (That never worked out) but sex ed was very general and it was countered at home by true love waits mantra. I literally did not know what the word gay meant until i was a freshman in college. It was a slur used in the locker rooms occasionally but not bc someone was gay , just because they did something wrong . When I finally came out to my family they literally said your not gay you like girls. And pointed to photos of proms on the wall as proof enough for them.

[@hayleymar]

Read that Frog & Toad anthology to my 5 year old just a few months ago as her bedtime stories. And our copy of Where The Wild Things Are had to be retired because the toddler loved it too hard lol Children's books are my favorite and there are few things that I love more than reading with my kids. I feel like nowadays it's so much easier to find the "it's okay to be ___" books with very little story to them. I need to find more sources to help me track down the actual *stories*. I feel like that does more work of normalizing things because then you practice seeing their actual perspective and that there is so much more to them than just their sexuality/race/disability/etc.

[@michellesmith4117]

I heard some people think "Love, Z" was about grooming! "Love, Z" is about a robot who tries to find the meaning of the word love. Someone saw the older robots as groomers instead of family. The book is about a family that is not Mom, Dad and 2.5 kids. It's a great book.

[@packman2321]

I really loved this. Far too often people treat kids media as something separate from adult art, or a lesser form. It's really cool to see you digging into childhood media and children as a group out here in the world with all of us. Also, I need to add some of these to my reading list. I am far too underread in the picture book area having just looped the pocket postman infinitely.

[@stevenvaleriojr1177]

Great video. Absolutely love it. Quick note on Bert and Ernie, though. Their main creators, in fact, their sole creators, were Jim Henson and Frank Oz, who were very close friends and originally modeled the relationship on their own, as they did with the relationship between Kermit and Fozzy Bear. HOWEVER, their main WRITER from 1981 through 1990 (the period most Sesame Street afficionados consider the peak period, and also happens to be when I was watching) was a gay man who modeled their relationship on that of he and his partner. Which is huge. I just wanted to make sure the facts were correct.

[@shinyarcs]

your kitty is so cute i'm crying

[@hamcakes]

YES please, a video on queer representation in children's TV shows! That would be wonderful. im also looking forward to the Tove Jansson video too ❤ this one was great! made me emotional to remember some of my memories with these books. thank you kaz~

[@kazy8029]

I haven't read any of these in years so the idea on Frog and Toad as a couple never really came to my mind. This might be because I was so unsure that I was gay well into adulthood or because I was a kid living in nowhere Ohio. I genuinely just thought animals in that universe just didn't have jobs or that they were rich like Bilbo Baggins so just lived together for fun.

[@BlinkiesNoGood]

When my kid was little I had such a hard time finding books for her that had a child with two moms, like she has, without the book being ALL ABOUT having two moms. Heather Has Two Mommies is a great book but I really wanted something where the same-sex parents just got to exist without being called out. The best I could find was a little board book called "Momma, Mommy, and Me," which is just about a day in the life of two moms and their kid. I'm glad there's starting to be more choices. I will say that Marlon Bundo really helped me explain homophobia and anti-LGBTQIA+ legislation to her, though.

[@idunnobutyay2520]

The first time I read Marlon Bundo, it moved me to tears

[@aspen1713]

Idk why as a queer kid I thought of Burt & Ernie more like brothers, but the old theatre seat guys from the Muppets were my gay puppet headcanon 😌

[@MouseofMischief]

Moomin, Frog And Toad, and Strega Nona were my childhood! I immediately clicked when I saw them in the thumbnail!

[@8hypnotyze8]

“New Yorkers don’t come for me” no no no, you were right and you should say it.

[@girlygrimoire]

This is truly my favourite video essay I’ve ever watched, u summarize my feeling about the topics discussed here sooo well and I’m in awe of the finesse and perfection!! Also as a lesbian ur story is extremely relatable, love to u

[@megnutk]

Burst into tears over the anne of green gables tidbit because I never made the connection to why I loved that series so much as a child. oh boy

[@Rahshu]

You didn't mention it, but for me "Wind in the Willows" is such a fantastic queer read whose author also has some...notable quirks. Rat and Mole are so obviously a couple, and I think Mole and Badger are at least romantic friends. The stop-animation from Cosgrove Hall goes even harder with this, I think. I hadn't heard of "Toad and Frog." I"ll have to check that one out. That looks really lovely.

[@LLydarth]

Kenneth Graham was married with a child but is said to have been distant from them and left to live with another man at one point. I'm British and grew up with both almost imagining the stories were in the same universe. I didn't know Frog and Toad was American till now.

[@kobaltkween]

I totally missed Harriet's queerness, but as a Gen X who lived in and near NYC in my childhood, I read her as "adult" and neurotic independent of her tomboy traits. We were the latchkey generation. Now apply that to New York City in the 70s. Most of the Boomers who lived in Manhattan in the late 60s and 70s were already counter the culture that raised them. Generally speaking, Boomers gave us the same free range they had, but after they had broken a lot of social barriers and divorced themselves from the types of community bonds their parents had. They grew up in communities of adults their parents knew that looked after them, but they left that community behind for more individual pursuits. Harriet was a pretty judgemental, intelligent, very independent, emotionally underdeveloped kid with quasi-adult knowledge and way too little parental involvement. Like a whole lot of New York kids of her class and race in that era. They were New Yorkers first, kids a distant second.

[@lilykatmoon4508]

I had heard that Arthur Lobel was gay, but none of the others and I have a MLS for school libraries, lol. Of course, here in Texas, there was very little instruction in queer Children’s or YA literature in school in 2010 when I was in grad school. I came into my queerness only in the last few years. I really appreciate your channel because I learn so much about queer history and can go back and read things I didn’t know about or actively rejected because I knew deep down inside I was queer and was terrified of that for so long. I’m in my early 50s and am on the edge of having been born when homosexuality was being decriminalized but still a taboo subject. I absolutely want to read those Moomin books that I never even heard of until your channel as well as Harriet the Spy which I never read. I’d also love to reread the Frog and Toad books that I loved. I adore amphibians and they had wonderful adventures together.

[@differentboy9697]

I don't know if it was ever mentioned but the universality of the queer experience is amazing. I'm not american yet everything you mentioned about growing up and coming to terms with your sexuality is almos the same as mine. Even the straight crush to push away the bullies and to make you believe you were straight.

[@joannebishop3295]

In college I took a course in children's literature (thinking it was an easy way out of an upper division literature course) and it was one of the best things I ever did. I read all of the classic children's books I had never read like Alice in Wonderland, The Wizard of Oz, Little Women, etc. Read lots of award winning picture and early childhood books. But what I really learned was that good children's literature was good literature and bad literature was bad. A good children's book can bring tears to the eyes or have a profound effect on an adult. I still remember many of the books I read then 50 years ago and have bought some of them as gifts for children many times because I fell in love with them and their message or vibe.

[@emery7331]

I love your cat. Her little meows in the background are very welcome

[@thiadesg]

I buy a lot of books for my nieces and nephews and a couple years ago I bought them "Toi, moi et le rose" ("You, me and pink"). One day I'll expect I'll have to explain to them why I don't have a boyfriend or girlfriend. I hope they will grow up to be open-hearted people.

[@kstefff]

I’m a librarian at a small Ukrainian Catholic school and have all of the classic books you’ve discussed in the collection there. Kids constantly check the books out and even though they are not outwardly queer, it makes my queer heart smile knowing these stories are still being shared even in an environment that sadly doesn’t generally accept queerness in any way. As a queer anthropologist, I think this video was just lovely 💕

[@asililydying]

this channel is an absolute goldmine, kaz - frog and toad were my favorite ! I highly recommend 'Fair Play' by Tove Jansson, it read to me like a sapphic Frog And Toad for young adults. I haven't gotten to Moomin yet ~

[@robynstype]

Wonderful video! I’m a new mom, and I am acutely aware of how books shared and read in childhood can shape a kid’s thoughts, feelings, worldview, and even their aesthetic 😊. Thank you for teaching me more about some of my own favorite authors, and introducing me to some new ones to add to our library!

[@JeraWizard]

Love a good Kaz Rowe upload day ✨✨✨

[@nancykarasik3538]

Love your channel. I was in Helsinki recently and was captivated by the Moomin characters that I saw in a store window!

[@atracaelum]

Love stuff like this. A personal "oh that explains everything" revelation for me was learning that the author of Bunnicula, James Howe, has come out since publishing that series. It's another example of using animal characters to obfuscate some pretty obvious subtext with the characters Harold (the dog) and Chester (the cat), doubled by them already being parodies of Watson and Sherlock respectively. The books are mainly comedic, but they dip into some drama now and then and throughout these two will step up to protect or comfort each other, characters developing into a place of effectively co-parenting the younger animals in the household. It's very cute, is what I'm trying to say!

[@Felicat82]

I LOVE Bunnicula, Chester, and Harold. This never occurred to me as a kid reading the series, but it makes SO MUCH SENSE now that you point it out. You've just added another layer to my appreciation of those wonderful books, thank you.

[@SpencerOrmond]

I really loved this video! I know you said the video was a mess jokingly because of the cat and cicada noises but I feel like it added to the vibes

[@HeyLizardLeigh]

Truly loved this one. The legacy of progressive/queer kid lit in brooklyn and nyc in general is actually one of my fave like under-celebrated histories of the city!!

[@imogenx9145]

I'm grateful that a lot of my parenting of niblings is just asking them "why not?" when heteronomative seeds are sprouting. It allows them to think on it themselves without feeling like I'm pushing them to accept my queerness. Also, I loved Nimona for including a kiss at the end and to later find my nephew throwing his plastic knights a wedding and mushing their helmets together. My niece tells me that her Ace Aunties are so fun to spend time with, and it warms my cold, little child free heart to read them books that value friendship and acceptance.

[@emilyrln]

"Of course I would have made *more* campfires" is one of the sweetest things I've ever read 😭🥰 Imo the best children's media can be enjoyed by anyone.

[@Cat_Woods]

The same people who supposedly want to protect children also continue to keep child marriage legal. Because in reality they see children as existing for their exploitation, not people with needs, rights and preferences of their own.

[@oliviawolcott8351]

people forget "the children" in "think of the children" includes queer kids.

[@alyzzzea1864]

Queer children’s book illustrators its our time 🙌🙌

[@watson483]

I was pretty lucky. I grew up in a pretty liberal family and my mums brother was gay. I was around 9 or 10 and I came home to mum and said ‘what if I like girls as well as boys’ and mum just replied ‘that’s called being bisexual’ and I was just like sweet, here’s a label for me. The aromanticism came later and with much much more angst, and the genderfluidity later than that with much less angst and just like, oh is that a thing? Sweet, my life makes a lot more sense and the dysphoria I felt like 30% of the time wasn’t just me hating my body. I’m 30 now and pretty settled which is very nice.