Huge Dean Guitars Lawsuit News

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KDH

KDH

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 722
@LeviClay
@LeviClay 6 ай бұрын
I said it then, I'll say it again. You can't sit by and watch someone do something for almost 50 YEARS and then take action.
@jetcheneau5811
@jetcheneau5811 6 ай бұрын
Gibson didn't care then because they never saw the V or Explorer as significant enough cash cows to care about copies. Now people want em, so now it's a problem.
@Releasethebats123
@Releasethebats123 6 ай бұрын
@@jetcheneau5811or maybe because they have gone through 3 different CEOs
@-suphur
@-suphur 6 ай бұрын
@@jetcheneau5811 I think that it was just the new CEO at the time, looking for any way to funnel more cash into the company. To the O/Ps point, that is exactly what I was thinking. Too little, too late, imo.
@richardlewis1243
@richardlewis1243 6 ай бұрын
It’s all about billable hours
@adambeachard3249
@adambeachard3249 6 ай бұрын
Gibson has been under new ownership since 2019, who waited 50 years? Seems like they took action pretty quickly considering it would have been hard to do before they actually owed the company.
@VashStarwind
@VashStarwind 6 ай бұрын
You gotta admit that the Dean headstock goes perfect with a flying V
@Stefan-
@Stefan- 6 ай бұрын
Indeed it does, i play Dean V´s almost exclusively since many years now and i have been saying just that its a perfect match with a V at both ends.
@garywagstaff7142
@garywagstaff7142 6 ай бұрын
Yes, yes it does. That’s one of the things that has kept me from getting a Dean in the past few years…the new headstock is BORING! I’ve got Vs, Zs, MLS, and a Caddy…all with that great iconic headstock.
@petermontgomery8707
@petermontgomery8707 6 ай бұрын
I can’t agree at all😂😂😂😂.I’ve got a schenker Dean v and I think the headstock looks damned ugly but I’m a schenker fan 🤷‍♂️.That aside though I’m pretty sure the headstock shape does something that means the guitar is far more playable.The neck is fantastic anyway but there’s something about the evenness of the tension in bending strings that means that’s the guitar I reach for first
@YaoEspirito
@YaoEspirito 5 ай бұрын
I feel the exact opposite. Totally ruins the flow. Any designer would tell you: all the flow and energy directed upward, and then a garish headstock pointing the other way?! No!
@violentJJ2112
@violentJJ2112 3 ай бұрын
if it don't have a V headstock is it really even a v at point? totally new and totally different, wicked guitar by Dean... he should have copyrighted that for sure
@alaskacowboy1
@alaskacowboy1 6 ай бұрын
I agree that Gibson should not have won that, given Dean had been making those models for 40 years.
@fabrilax
@fabrilax 6 ай бұрын
Open pandora’s box and give me that ESP LTD EX James Hetfield inspired explorer in olympic white.
@DJKr15py
@DJKr15py 6 ай бұрын
You could probably import an Edwards from Japan
@MercyNoMore
@MercyNoMore 6 ай бұрын
I would be buying it instantly
@GregBourne
@GregBourne 6 ай бұрын
I hope this means guys like Seger can go back to making their V. Wanted one after seeing Pallbear play and holding Brett's. I had to 'settle' for a Dunable Asteroid which still kicks ass but I really wanted a Seger flying V
@johnnyswitchblade13
@johnnyswitchblade13 6 ай бұрын
Dean and Hamer were not making Gibson copies in the late '70s. They were making Explorers and Vs that Gibson declined to make, with binding, inlays, maple caps, etc. The big 3 of "Boutique Guitars" (Hamer/Dean/BC Rich) forced the major mfrs like Gibson and Fender to raise their standards and up their game and we have all benefitted since then.
@Gary-xm6gc
@Gary-xm6gc 6 ай бұрын
But when Gibson made a strat copy, they had no problem ripping off Fender. They are hypocrites.
@randrothify
@randrothify 6 ай бұрын
They also made near exact copies of the Mustang under the Kalamazoo brand. I really like Gibson guitars. Matter of fact, I’m shopping around now for one. However, I don’t much like the way their private equity owners manage them and push their litigious behavior. Some would excuse this behavior as something that every corporation does to protect their intellectual property and brand. Fair enough. But Fender doesn’t act this way. People can say that’s only because Fender lost their suit after it was determined that the abandoned their trademark rights out of neglect. But it’s the same deal with Gibson. They didn’t assert their rights in a timely period and their designs became generic and in use by many for a long time. It’s time to take their medicine and move forward with new designs and innovations. Fender did and came up with some pretty cool stuff like the Meteora and the guitars in their Parallel Universe and Paranormal range along with Tonemaster amps. Gibson came out with the Theodore, $2000 Epiiphones, and $1500 Gibson-branded 7 watt amps that no one bought six decades ago. They are not facing stiff competition because everyone is ripping them off, they are facing tough competition because they lost their focus on providing better value at all price points. Love Gibson guitars and even thought the Falcon amps are pretty good but they need to get back to meeting the market where it is, with QC, and price points that reflect the value that is available. They should get a premium because of the Gibson name but they have to understand that if they want to sit at the high end of the market the will absolutely face competition from others that can undercut their value proposition. PRS understands this and is prospering, Fender, Yamaha, Ibanez, also get it. The only that doesn’t is Gibson.
@jackpijjin4088
@jackpijjin4088 6 ай бұрын
They also made a 1:1 clone of a Gretsch (I believe it even had the G brand on the face) but that's not an issue apparently.
@AndrewAHayes
@AndrewAHayes 6 ай бұрын
Lets not forget that the Gibson Les Paul was a 100% copy of a guitar design brought into Gibson by a designer in the hope of selling them the design, they just blatantly ripped it off, knowing full well he would not be able to afford to defend it. I forget the name of the original designer but it has been documented on KZbin
@burnoutzzz
@burnoutzzz 6 ай бұрын
There was also bc rich bich and jackson rhoads copies from Epiphone in the 80's
@fuckingfuck6405
@fuckingfuck6405 6 ай бұрын
its just business. Not really hypocrisy.
@twenkmcwanzer
@twenkmcwanzer 6 ай бұрын
I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if Gibson have filed a trademark lawsuit for the name 'Chibson'.
@Kylora2112
@Kylora2112 6 ай бұрын
Chibson USA would *immediately* make real products to spite them :) (for $14999.999)
@rkgaustin
@rkgaustin 6 ай бұрын
R.I.P. CGS
@kambion
@kambion 6 ай бұрын
lol
@phunkym8
@phunkym8 6 ай бұрын
now everyone can play authentic with a clean conscience
@TobiasC-mg4zk
@TobiasC-mg4zk 6 ай бұрын
I play only authentic Gibson knockoffs.
@strumminronin
@strumminronin 6 ай бұрын
​@@TobiasC-mg4zk And why not 🎉
@aTortoiseWest
@aTortoiseWest 6 ай бұрын
Hahaha Zero F*cks Given. Go Dean
@walterpruitt6589
@walterpruitt6589 6 ай бұрын
I know right, a great way to speed run nuking your reputation and fan base.
@popeye089
@popeye089 6 ай бұрын
@morbidsoyI’ll never buy a Dean because of them screwing Dimebags family. That’s as scummy as you get
@MrMadtv123
@MrMadtv123 6 ай бұрын
​@morbidsoy that's a very fair statement. I'm a giant dime and Pantera fan but it's not the FIRST reason id buy an ML , an ML is my two favourite guitars smooshed together the Explorer and V , the fact it's heavily associated with Dime is just a little cherry on top , same with an Explorer , I love those too it's just cool that they are synonymous with Hetfield . And there's nothing wrong with that
@popeye089
@popeye089 6 ай бұрын
@@MrMadtv123 I'm not even a Dime fan really, I just hate scummy people.
@whycantihaveanumber00000
@whycantihaveanumber00000 6 ай бұрын
​@morbidsoy I will only support Dean here because they kind of represent other companies AND Gibson needs to be hit with a heavy dose of legal reality
@captaincrash9286
@captaincrash9286 6 ай бұрын
I traded in a cheap Fender for a 'lawsuit' Tokai strat in 1983. The reason I did, was that the cheap Fender was crap, and expensive new ones were little better, and unattainable. If it wasn't for the competition from the far east, Fender et al would still be offering overpriced bad instruments now. Tokai, Ibanez, Arai etc forced the 'Heritage' brands to up their game, to the benefit of players. Gibson, spend your money on Quality Control, not lawyers.
@kenabi
@kenabi 6 ай бұрын
these days, you look at the squiers. they've gotten a surprisingly good line on the QC for the money you spend. fender proper? just seem to keep degrading. an $800 players strat shouldn't be needing a full set up out of the box when a $300 knockoff brand can have better overall quality and maybe needing some fine tuning to be up and gigging. and thats before we get into the issues with the top end lines. heck, even gibson has this same general sort of QC issue, but epiphone is making good strides. someone in each of the big dogs needs a clue by four, or they're gonna get left behind.
@221b-l3t
@221b-l3t 6 ай бұрын
You may not like Gibson and that's fine but the QC issues are long gone. Mine is from before that era anyway and fantastic (98 Ltd Edition 58 Flying V) but go to a guitar store and grab any random LP Standard of the wall and it's likely to be great. They are expensive yes but consider due to inflation a LP at 1959 prices would be 5-10 grand depending if you go by monetary inflation only or purchasing power reduction which was much more dramatic. In 1958 a Les Paul cost 350 bucks. A 3 bedroom house cost 6 grand. So either Gibsons have gotten cheap or housing extraordinarily expensive because by inflation that house should be 100 grand. But it's not, it's 700 grand now. I love my Harley Bentons and Squiers and Epiphone but I do plan on eventually buying more Gibsons and I do try them in the store a lot, since they have bo qualms letting me fondle a 59 custom shop to compare with the G and Epi Standards. They're all excellent, the Epiphone being most disappointing. Dunno, my Korean made Epis are downright fantastic guitars. I stuck proper pickups in them and they're fantatic. The new Epiphones didn't make me fäcery enthusiastic. Because for 30% less you can get a Harley Benton SC550+ and that's just a better guitar. To me it was between the Gibson and the Epi but cost less than the Epiphone. Maybe I had a bad one. It looked and played great but it had high frets and buzz. My 160€ HB Telecaster has flawless frets (TE62DB in Lake Placid Blue, what a guitar!!!)... Player series Fender are good these days. About what you get with a US made one but at a reasonable price. Because Leo designed them to be cheap and easy to mass produce ublike a set-neck Gibson, Martin or the rest of the time. So while the Strat was meant to be a fancy guitar the Tele should be much cheaper. Below one grand for a US made Tele but alas no. Of course I like Flying Vs and they're unaffordable so I will build my own and find them used. Am original 70s V is only twice the cost of a current reissue 70s V haha... unfortunately I neither have 3 nor 6 grand so made in China prefab mahagoni body and neck it'll be. 67 style with a vibrola in candy apple red nitro finish with Tonerider pickups and CTS pots. Should be able to do it for 700 bucks and 100 hours work.
@BrunodeSouzaLino
@BrunodeSouzaLino 6 ай бұрын
The biggest threat to Gibson at that time was the Yamaha SG. That guitar was miles ahead of what Gibson could produce in terms of quality and many Gibson players would switch to them at that time.
@TomJakobW
@TomJakobW 6 ай бұрын
@@BrunodeSouzaLinothe biggest threat to Gibson is their lack of marketing and direction on identity. They don’t have many recognizable and known modern guitar players younger people listen to as ambassadors. No young person really knows Gibson. Fender? Sure. Other brands, too. But Gibson is kind of the boring and weird dad guitar.
@captaincrash9286
@captaincrash9286 6 ай бұрын
@@TomJakobW I very nearly bought one.. a friend of mine did buy one. It was a golden age for guitars!
@Sac_slappper_4rce
@Sac_slappper_4rce 6 ай бұрын
I make drum kits and I'm about to sue every brands that make round drum shells.😵‍💫
@JoeBlack1108
@JoeBlack1108 6 ай бұрын
Ya!! You go get em
@Bristolcentaurus
@Bristolcentaurus 6 ай бұрын
have you got a TM or Copyright?
@BrunodeSouzaLino
@BrunodeSouzaLino 6 ай бұрын
You can't because frame drums are thousands of years old.
@FidelIsaacVargas
@FidelIsaacVargas 3 ай бұрын
he sells drumshells on the sea shore
@Sac_slappper_4rce
@Sac_slappper_4rce 3 ай бұрын
@@FidelIsaacVargas Who.. where? I'll sue I'm too! 😎
@TylerJohnstonGuitar
@TylerJohnstonGuitar 6 ай бұрын
I think this is the first time I’ve heard an Irish person say the letter “R” out loud. Not what I was expecting 😂
@Y33tastic
@Y33tastic 6 ай бұрын
Honestly I had to relisten to him spelling out "m-o-d-e-r-n" because the pronunciation of the "r" completely reset my brain
@jimmyrosendahl5140
@jimmyrosendahl5140 6 ай бұрын
Sounded like: "m-o-d-e-OAR-n" to my upper Midwest American ears. Love it!
@Sticky_Tea
@Sticky_Tea 6 ай бұрын
You can easily pick out the Irish pirates
@adriansmith76
@adriansmith76 6 ай бұрын
Yet he said R-madillo in a regular fashion 😅 don't get me wrong, all in good jest 🤟
@YaoEspirito
@YaoEspirito 5 ай бұрын
😂"orr". I thought he misspoke, but then he said it again!
@alaskacowboy1
@alaskacowboy1 6 ай бұрын
Wait, depending on how the lawsuit goes, does this mean we could get a reproduction Ibanez Destroyer?
@deltazakuro4327
@deltazakuro4327 6 ай бұрын
Id take that and reproductions of the MX/EXP Shapes from ESP
@DasOmen02
@DasOmen02 6 ай бұрын
Duuuuuuuude I'd love an Ibanez destroyer 🤩
@williamdistasio9358
@williamdistasio9358 6 ай бұрын
​@DasOmen02 Hell yeah, brother! Me too! Not to mention that it will be just as quality as a Gibson and play just as well and cost a fraction of the price of Gibsons silly ass pricing. I mean, I have tons of guitars, but if I want to get a Gibson SG like I've always wanted, (I have to admit they play amazingly), I would have to drop a couple of my guitars. Inflation right now is horrible, and so I could never justify just shelling out that kind of cash, but I'm not willing to let go of two or three guitars for one, you know what I mean? So FJB and F Gibson
@flyingrat492
@flyingrat492 6 ай бұрын
@@williamdistasio9358used SGs are the most affordable of all gibsons other than double cut LP specials, I regularly see them at fender player prices, be on the lookout for a deal
@flyingrat492
@flyingrat492 6 ай бұрын
Oh how I dream of a repro destroyer, I would buy one in an instant if it was anywhere cheaper than the epiphone korina explorer
@theelectrodefunhouse4651
@theelectrodefunhouse4651 6 ай бұрын
What’s funny is Gibson has copied Strats in the superstrat era on numerous occasions, used a Jackson headstock on one, made various PRS inspired copies, and Epiphone made a Jackson Rhodes copy and a BC Rich Bich copies when Gibson owned Epiphone.
@oldfriend327
@oldfriend327 6 ай бұрын
I hope Dean wins and wins several times over. Not because I hate Gibson, but because what is fair is fair. Not only did Gibson have how many years decades, there are enough difference with Dean's guitars for them to be exclusively Dean designs and not exact copies of Gibson. I love and adore Gibson for real and forever will love Gibson. All of this litigation is so unfair though. Also, I think that if Dean can win this, we should also reverse Gibson's former lawsuits against ESP and allow ESP to go back to making those single cut Les Paul style "Lawsuit Eclipses" with the four knobs and treble side horn... and most important, an exact replica of James Hetfield's EET F** Explorer style guitar with the huge headstock. I heard Jeff Kiesel of Kiesel/Carvin Guitars that Gibson had allegedly sent him sort of cease-and-desist order for him to stop making his single cut LP styled guitars. He said absolutely not, they had decades to do this. Good for him. Dean was hurt with this and it isn't cool. Personally I think this is about GREED. Gibson had to shut down their Memphis factory yet had the money to acquire Mesa Boogie, Kramer, AND continue with all of this litigation.
@AuntAlnico4
@AuntAlnico4 6 ай бұрын
Yeah, My Gibson guitars hold a special place in my eyes but I will never buy a new Gibson again because what they do to their employees! Gibson could have kept their employees going until they find other jobs and they could have slowly shut that factory down and slowly acquired those other companies 🙄 and mess a boogie is a whole different story but needless to say I won't be buying any of their crap either !
@Kylora2112
@Kylora2112 6 ай бұрын
Kiesel brought out the CT6 (their spin on a Custom 24) and CS6 (their spin on a Les Paul) because PRS won their suit with Gibson over PRS's singlecut model. I *doubt* ESP would be allowed to sell their Les Paul copies (such as the satin purple Hetfield model) in the US because Gibson is *adamant* about their Les Paul trademark. But yeah, it looks like they're going to lose the Flying V and Explorer trademarks because they *haven't*, so we'll probably see ESP start making LTD versions of their Edwards Explorer copies for the US market Soon™ (VERY nice guitars).
@xXAscendingPhoenixXx
@xXAscendingPhoenixXx 6 ай бұрын
@@AuntAlnico4How likely as a percentage would you say Gibson has a chance of losing this lawsuit? I ask because from the pics showed, the models do look very similar, so it will be interesting to see how it all plays out in court. Personally I hope they lose so that ESP would be able to reproduce the OG James hetfield explorers they use to sell
@oldfriend327
@oldfriend327 6 ай бұрын
@@Kylora2112 Hi Kylora, thank you for that response. I did not know any of that about the CS6 and CT6. Funny how you mentioned that satin purple LP one because an individual a couple of months ago listed that same one for sale for $20K on Reverb or eBay and claimed it is the same one that is pictured in the ESP Custom Shop Gallery. I believe him or her, it is identical. You are correct though, that single cut Les Paul type model is not going to be allowed unfortunately.
@Kylora2112
@Kylora2112 6 ай бұрын
@@xXAscendingPhoenixXx Gibson will 95% lose because they took 40 years to defend their trademark, and every brand has their Explorer and V model.
@jettschenker
@jettschenker 6 ай бұрын
When Dean ultimately wins, I'll be waiting for the special "Victory" model of the flying V.
@Stefan-
@Stefan- 6 ай бұрын
V as in Victory, hell yes !!
@animeguitarguy
@animeguitarguy 5 ай бұрын
Haha I'd buy it just to support
@wizardreplica
@wizardreplica 6 ай бұрын
To be honest I think the Moderne would be flattered if someone bothered to make a knockoff
@peejay6930
@peejay6930 6 ай бұрын
Ibanez did😊
@CaptainCraigKWMRZ
@CaptainCraigKWMRZ 6 ай бұрын
Now THAT'S funny! 😂😂
@kenabi
@kenabi 6 ай бұрын
pretty sure the moderne would be happy just having people buying them in a quantity worth mentioning, let alone copying.
@ap5965
@ap5965 6 ай бұрын
I think eastwood does or did them. But that's kinda their thing lol
@_Suzuka_Joe
@_Suzuka_Joe 6 ай бұрын
Mark Agnesi punching in the air right now with his "play authentic" stance.
@DMSProduktions
@DMSProduktions 6 ай бұрын
Old Greasy Agenesi! What a 🤡!
@vyrus24
@vyrus24 6 ай бұрын
i remember that video, and the fear in Agnesi's eyes... "this is not gonna go well at all". At least that was my impression.
@DMSProduktions
@DMSProduktions 6 ай бұрын
@@vyrus24 For GIBSON!
@BrunodeSouzaLino
@BrunodeSouzaLino 6 ай бұрын
When that infamous video came out, you knew that the guy was nuts. Telling studios to remove the tape from the Gibson guitars when Gibson has to pay the studio to have product placement.
@guythatplaysguitar764
@guythatplaysguitar764 6 ай бұрын
Gibson gotta stop suing basically everything
@huohization
@huohization 6 ай бұрын
I mean, look at the side by sides photos. They have a legit case of copying. Which is very rampant in guitar world anyway, I've always wondered why there weren't more lawsuits.
@alaskacowboy1
@alaskacowboy1 6 ай бұрын
@huohization It was, but even the 335 has been a copied body style since it released and even their Les Paul body could be considered a copy of the Merle Travis Bigsby, not to mention the Duo Jet. The point is that they have had so many years to do something about it and didn't until now.
@non_brewed_condiment
@non_brewed_condiment 6 ай бұрын
Gibson gotta stop in general
@ad1170
@ad1170 6 ай бұрын
Unfortunately, companies can be punished in the US for not protecting their trademark. Even for the smallest things. It’s why America is so litigious and major corps have lawyers on payroll. They can’t pick and choose unless there is a legal agreement.
@huohization
@huohization 6 ай бұрын
@@alaskacowboy1 There's a reason all the most popular models are being copied, Telecaster, Stratocaster, Les Paul and so on. No one copies the ones that doesn't sell well by their inventors. Seems little scummy to me, and feels weird that the defense is "Well, we've copied you for so long why are you getting mad now?". I personally will buy the legendary models only from the companies that came up with them. So far I have a LP and a Stratocaster, don't care for the Telecaster personally so I'll be skipping that completely.
@DeathToPerdition
@DeathToPerdition 6 ай бұрын
Gibson should be sued for making $6000 mandolins that look like shit. Like, who's that for? Sure as shit not for regular people
@jettschenker
@jettschenker 6 ай бұрын
LMFAO 🎉
@dboone7670
@dboone7670 6 ай бұрын
The $6000 mandolins are some of their "lower" priced models. I'm sure Gibson would consider them their "working man's mandolin".
@jfnarmour
@jfnarmour 6 ай бұрын
Cry about being poor, harder.
@mettaton5348
@mettaton5348 6 ай бұрын
​@@jfnarmourSo what if he's poor? Atleast the man has common sense!
@damienscanlon5585
@damienscanlon5585 6 ай бұрын
@@jfnarmourimagine being such a A-hole that you think making fun of someone for not having money makes you better than them…
@PistolsPlayground
@PistolsPlayground 6 ай бұрын
I worked in a shop that sold both Gibson, and the USA Dean guitars. The US Dean's smoke Gibson, way better guitar for the money. Better playability, better QC, etc. Hell, I've played import Deans that smoked Gibson's.
@Kylora2112
@Kylora2112 6 ай бұрын
I have 4 Dean Zs (recently sold a 5th), and yeah, their DMT-branded pickups suck, but their models that come with stock Seymour Duncans are awesome. I got 2 of a 4-piece custom run of lefty Z Floyds from XLG back in 2017, and I love the V neck profile their put on there (same as the Select line, though that's a hardtail), and I'd put them up against my 2019 B-2 Tribute Explorer (though not my '85).
@PistolsPlayground
@PistolsPlayground 6 ай бұрын
@@Kylora2112 yup, those DMT pickups blow, but Dean makes a great playing guitar. Gibson has made some good guitars, but I haven't been impressed by much of anything I've seen in the last two decades. I've got a buddy that loves Gibson, but he even admits they've let the brand go to shit. He's got some cool Gibsons that play great, an E-2 with the flame maple top, he also has one of the old (can't remember the model name) Explorer with 24 frets and a Floyd and it's another killer guitar. I don't see how Gibson can charge the prices they do for what they're producing now. Their money would be better spent on building guitars people want, and better QC than lawyers and lawsuits.
@ssg_von
@ssg_von 6 ай бұрын
my dean dave mustaine vtmn is great
@garywagstaff7142
@garywagstaff7142 6 ай бұрын
Yep, and I’m not about to part with any of my Dean’s. A couple Zs, a couple Vs, a very nice ML, and my Cadillac. I had an SG years ago and pretty much hated it. The feel & balance were not for me. I’d love to add another Z or V to the collection. I’m just not enamoured with Gibson. And it’s not about the money, many of my 46 guitars cost more than many/most Gibson’s. Mostly it’s about playability. The rest is down to wanting to support guitar companies and not lifestyle brands.
@BillJones
@BillJones 6 ай бұрын
The thing that most guitar-tubers forget to mention is that Gibson hadn't made any Vs or Explorers for over a decade when Hamer and Dean brought those designs back in the 70s. Gibson has Dean and other boutique brands to thank that anyone even *remembers* the V and the Explorer.
@221b-l3t
@221b-l3t 6 ай бұрын
I wouldn't go that far. If it was the case that Dean, Hamer etc... repopularised the V and X guitars then those would be the popular explorer style guitars but they're not. All the people who popularised them played Gibsons. And it has been continuously made since 1967 58-59 with some leftovers in 60 and 63 then 67 reissue and that pretty much remained in the catalog unchanged, adding neck binding, closed tuners, fixed bridge and hotter pickups in the 70s First of all Albert King, used a 59 Korina for most of his early career before that was lost in a game of cards and went on to custom made 58 Style V's. Hendrix played three, all Gibsons of course but back then there weren't many people making Flying Vs besides the occasional luthier who found an old catalog. Michael and Rudolph Schenker, probably the biggest contributors to the Vs popularity, especially in metal and hard rock played Gibsons until very late in their career, by then it was already legendary. K.K. Downing had and still has his Medallion Flying V, it was cherry and along with a candy apple red vibrola 67 (Gibson calls Camdy Apple Red, Sparkling Burgundy. It's just heritage cherry over a Goldtop or Silvertop). That was his main axe. Now of course he is probably most known for playing Hamers m, but that was early to mid 80s. By then the Flying V was well established. It's the popularity that caused everyone to make their own not the other way around. Randy Rhoads would be an exception being a notable early populariser of the V, he had his custom Karl Sandoval polka dot V and then the Jacksons that of course led to the now popular Randy Rhoads style asymetric V, which most copies are. But that's likely down to Jackson being less litigious than Gibson. Explorers is more debatable, originals basically don't exist. They made 20. And being a V, LP, Tele guy I actually don't know my Explorer history that well. I do think those who used them in the early 80s used Gibsons, Maiden guys used to have them before the Jackson Strats along with Les Pauls, Hetfield of course. I love Vs great guitars. I have two. A Gibson and an Epiphone both 58 style. I love them. Gonna get a not too pricey Randy Rhoads too. And a Harley Benton Explorer, they make a real nice copy of the 58 Korina X. Unfortunately very few make nice symmetric style Vs.
@michaelbrown8619
@michaelbrown8619 Ай бұрын
That’s a damn good point.
@hailmaryrecordings8255
@hailmaryrecordings8255 6 ай бұрын
People pay for that Gibson headstock, and I don’t see that changing anytime soon. As long as there are blues-lawyers/Dentists, Gibson will sell them guitars to hang on the wall.
@huohization
@huohization 6 ай бұрын
You don't have to be neither of those to buy a LP Standard or SG which are both great guitars.
@drdoom8793
@drdoom8793 6 ай бұрын
​@@huohizationno, you just have to have poor taste. Gibson is easily one of the worst makers of G style guitars
@huohization
@huohization 6 ай бұрын
@@drdoom8793 As if taste is a question of good or bad, it's all subjective. Point was, you don't have to be rich to buy them.
@nunyabusiness6691
@nunyabusiness6691 6 ай бұрын
​@@drdoom8793whatever dude. Gibson makes some great stuff but to each his own.
@floridajack7222
@floridajack7222 6 ай бұрын
@@drdoom8793- let me guess - you think the Gem is the “GOAT.” Am i right?
@TealScarab
@TealScarab 6 ай бұрын
That pronunciation of the letter R in “modern”is really messing with me, but it’s fine I’m an American.
@nuggetstew4380
@nuggetstew4380 6 ай бұрын
As an American as well, that caught me off guard lol
@ElegantMule
@ElegantMule 6 ай бұрын
That got me too, most non-rhotic speakers pronounce the letter R with an 'a' vowel sound before it, kinda like a pirate might! But also KDH is a rhotic speaker, at least partially, so it came out of left field.
@novamediapodcasts
@novamediapodcasts 6 ай бұрын
Englishman here, got me too! Turns out I’d never heard an Irishman say the letter R before. Now I know.
@waitin4winter
@waitin4winter 6 ай бұрын
M-O-D-E-OR-N 😂
@methanedirigible
@methanedirigible 6 ай бұрын
Just sounds like an Irish person to me 🤷‍♂️
@TravisBartley-uq8cb
@TravisBartley-uq8cb 6 ай бұрын
I remember once the Gibson Play Authenticate video it pissed me off. I was guitar shopping I was looking at a Epiphone Firebird and bought a new old stock Dean Trans Am.
@strumminronin
@strumminronin 6 ай бұрын
I am still pissed off over that small mindedness so I still haven't bought that Steinberger! Yup, missed out on that half-half "Yin Yang" black and white Steinberger, but heck, I need my money more than they need mine!
@PhilipCockram
@PhilipCockram 6 ай бұрын
Play an Authentic Dean !
@UziMusic
@UziMusic 6 ай бұрын
I reckon body is free game, but headstock is the kicker, if you ripoff for example ibanez or fender headstock, then defs open for a lawsuit, but the strat or RG body outline, take it use it and add your own headstock to it is acceptable
@newgunguy4176
@newgunguy4176 6 ай бұрын
It's always been the headstock shape. Leave it at that. Can you imagine the descendants of Antonio De Torres suing every classical guitar maker in existence????
@Bigboybooya666
@Bigboybooya666 6 ай бұрын
headstock shape makes every guitar unique. dean have always looked different. because of this
@ThePowerman121
@ThePowerman121 6 ай бұрын
I had a Dean Z about 12 or so years ago. I sold it because I needed the money and wasn’t playing anyway. Now that I’m playing again, I wish I had kept it.
@jasonrackawack9369
@jasonrackawack9369 6 ай бұрын
Gibson is also taking legal action against the Alphabet for using the copyrighted"V" shape
@Broxi57
@Broxi57 6 ай бұрын
I'd be interested in a re-released Schenker V
@brianpara1407
@brianpara1407 6 ай бұрын
If you make a desirable product at a fair price, you don’t have to sue your competitors. Compete instead of lawyering up, Gibson. I own many Gibson’s, but I like options and competition. It’s best for the consumer.
@prodajemDomacuRakiju
@prodajemDomacuRakiju 6 ай бұрын
They all compete in producing same 5 shapes for last 70 years. It’s all pretty boring really.
@Mizai
@Mizai 6 ай бұрын
they should make guitar shapes not trademarkable
@DeliRevv
@DeliRevv 6 ай бұрын
Sounds like Dean took a play out of PRS’ playbook. They also got sued by Gib$on over the Singlecut/Tremonti and lost at first but then won on appeal a few years later.
@Stefan-
@Stefan- 6 ай бұрын
As someone that has played Dean V´s almost exclusively for many years and love their take on the V, i really hope that they can continue to make the V.
@oklahormoan
@oklahormoan 6 ай бұрын
This makes me happy. I love the Dean V’s.
@michaelhammond3196
@michaelhammond3196 6 ай бұрын
I am thrilled the ruling was overturned. Gibson coasted for years and then relied on the court system to do what they should have done years ago
@acutemadness
@acutemadness 4 ай бұрын
I wonder if someone would get in trouble for right triangle inlays I never quite liked the esp sawtooth ibanez sharktooth or jackson sharkfins especially the fact that they skip the 24th fret
@leearmitage
@leearmitage 6 ай бұрын
this could be a good discussion for our live stream this weekend
@sole__doubt
@sole__doubt 6 ай бұрын
When you cant beat the competition by competing, sue the pants off them. Typical modern corporation these days.
@garywagstaff7142
@garywagstaff7142 6 ай бұрын
Especially true with lifestyle brands. LOL
@Chuck-Bob
@Chuck-Bob 6 ай бұрын
Lol, dude, a PRS Explorer was the first thing I thought.
@alexdenton6586
@alexdenton6586 6 ай бұрын
I'm always eagerly waiting for your new videos. You bring a fresh and enjoyable perspective on guitar playing, along with some great deals. I still remember the Chinese manufacturer in Shenzhen. I ordered a tube amp from there, a copy of a much more expensive original, and honestly, it's absolutely amazing. I just wish you could make videos a bit more often, but oh well.
@paulketchupwitheverything767
@paulketchupwitheverything767 6 ай бұрын
I've worked a bit in the IP industry (but I'm not a patent attorney). I know that there can be general misunderstandings about what trademarks, patents and registered designs cover, where they are in force and how long they last for. The wording 'Flying V' is clearly a Gibson trademark, which is why the Dean model was (I believe) always named 'Dean V' by the company so as not to infringe. I think it gets harder with body shapes where arguments like 'generic' start to kick in and why so many manufacturers can make Stratocaster and Les Paul shaped bodies without litigation. I wonder if a small variation in design can get around things. Even Gibson have not been consistent with the shapes of their own models. The silhouette of the '58 and '67 Flying Vs are a bit different. Similar, but not identical. Trade names or trade marks can be registered in different trade mark classes. A fee has to be paid to keep them in force. The number of classes varies a bit from place to place. This is why you can have the same word used for different products but still trademarked e.g. 'Lotus' used by both a car manufacturer and a paper tissue maker for different TM classes. Apple was the name of the Beatles' music publishing company and separately a computer manufacturer. Inevitably this led to a law suit as Apple moved into iTunes and Apple Music and the TM usage became less distinct.
@TheGuitologist
@TheGuitologist 6 ай бұрын
I said it years ago, everything points to Dean ultimately winning this case. Gibson lost their right to dispute these alleged trademark infringements by not doing so 35 years ago.
@spicy110
@spicy110 6 ай бұрын
This is why nintendo is so strong on IP, you have to show you are not happy right away, a long silence on a issue is taken as acceptance.
@fordsrestorations970
@fordsrestorations970 6 ай бұрын
When I was out in the world and spotted a Dean Michel angelo Batio I didn't care if it was a Gibson or Dean , I knew I wanted that guitar 17 years ago , upon seeing it I instantly bought it ... some reason I like guitars a little bit vintage , they are settled and have the bugs worked out of them .
@russellzauner
@russellzauner 6 ай бұрын
I want to order a Gibson custom shop explorer with a forked headstock now but I don't think they'd build it
@TruthAndMoreTruth
@TruthAndMoreTruth 6 ай бұрын
Remember when that big company saved itself from demise by suing all of its competitors? Me either. Gibson could just be a better company.
@SlimeyGuitarStrings
@SlimeyGuitarStrings 6 ай бұрын
I saw this coming. Gibson started some of those cases in that corner of Texas where all the the patent trolls start their cases. I think the biggest part of this case was that it set precedent which is a big deal in US law.
@jesselemasters8676
@jesselemasters8676 6 ай бұрын
If this case goes the way it should, ESP and LTD could bring back the old EX shape!
@xijinpingsfavoritehemorrho1328
@xijinpingsfavoritehemorrho1328 6 ай бұрын
This is great news im glad to hear. Also i learned the irish say "or" isntead of "ar" when pronouncing the letter R. Now i want to know if they think americans sound like cartoon pirates when we say it. Maybe im just baked. Amazing news though
@TruthMan1234
@TruthMan1234 6 ай бұрын
Exactly. You can’t trademark a shape . Think if someone tried to trademark a circle , the wheel , disc , etc .
@kirkbolas4985
@kirkbolas4985 6 ай бұрын
One cannot fail to defend their own trademark (aka TM) for over 40 years and then suddenly decide it matters, file a TM Infringement suit and then expect to prevail …at least for more than five minutes. Nothing says, “I don’t give a shit” quite like ignoring a tangible aspect of one’s IP, e.g., a trademarked guitar body shape, for over four decades, especially when multiple manufacturers have utilized that IP unfettered over that time period.
@JimhawthorneNet
@JimhawthorneNet 6 ай бұрын
KDH I really like watching your videos. You have taught me something about the incorrectness of my American slang, which is that "Win" is a singular, and "Wins" is a plural, and I have been using "Wins" incorrectly. Also the word "Do" includes the present and points toward the future, and "Does" includes the present but points toward the past, so apparently I have also been using "Does" incorrectly as well, at least logically speaking. We Americans can sound very "hick" without even realizing it. I've leaned today.
@vuri3798
@vuri3798 6 ай бұрын
And that's not only true for Vs, if I recall correctly during the Dean lawsuit there were talks about Gibson potentially losing their rights to the ES 335 shape in Europe
@embreesmith7613
@embreesmith7613 6 ай бұрын
Thanks Kirlan. 🙂
@TexAgsArmyVet
@TexAgsArmyVet 6 ай бұрын
Not a big fan of PRS but a V with that classic PRS headstock would look pretty cool. On a side note, go check out Fireplant guitars! They rock. 🤘🤘🤘🤘
@peejay6930
@peejay6930 6 ай бұрын
Schecter almost do
@AuntAlnico4
@AuntAlnico4 6 ай бұрын
Yeah it's pretty cool, samick Glen Bennett I think it's what the series was called and it's a V with the prs head stock.
@davidp7833
@davidp7833 6 ай бұрын
I always wanted to try one of those old Dime Slimes. It just looks fun
@3Storms
@3Storms 6 ай бұрын
What it means is that Dean will have to spend more time and money to go through another trial all over again. Yeah I know Dean has been using Gibson designs for decades, but they're still Gibson designs. Companies do have the legal rights to defend them just as both Gibson and Jackson have done in the past against ESP, Ibanez, and others.
@thatoneguy1839
@thatoneguy1839 6 ай бұрын
We need a comeback of the ESP MX-250 desperately, and to be honest? If things go like this, we might just get a chance. A smidgen of a chance, even.
@GluedBarstool
@GluedBarstool 6 ай бұрын
Lmfao not going to happen. The banana headstock is protected.
@cathalstrophic2955
@cathalstrophic2955 6 ай бұрын
Dean Zelinsky was for years but not Armadillo
@AuntAlnico4
@AuntAlnico4 6 ай бұрын
😂 Probably doesn't matter, the brand is DEAN and that's still the name on the headstock.
@JonathanHiller
@JonathanHiller 6 ай бұрын
Dean Zelinsky was still associated with Dean guitars when Armadillo took over, at least for a year or two. I met him a couple of times at the Armadillo booth at NAMM when it was still held in Nashville.
@jamesdavies1179
@jamesdavies1179 6 ай бұрын
Honestly, I really don't understand why Gibson did this. It just came off as petty bullying If you've got your heart set on a Gibson flying V, you're not all of a sudden going to buy a Dean V I think past CEOs knew this, which is why they didn't pursue the case. They'd have been far better, served cracking down on quality control then going after a much smaller company To me it seemed like they were doing it so it was your only option for a USA guitar rather than fixing their quality issues.
@captainashcam
@captainashcam 6 ай бұрын
Great video, thanks for the recap, I’d kinda forgotten about this one. When they lose this case, Gibson should immediately start to use the Dean headstock shape 😄
@GuitarQuackery
@GuitarQuackery 6 ай бұрын
Very interesting development, indeed. I love your investigative reports.
@oldmanshreds
@oldmanshreds 6 ай бұрын
Philip McKnight also gave good commentary on the issue
@SerpentsBane1995
@SerpentsBane1995 6 ай бұрын
Can't wait to hear Trogly's take on this great news! \m/ KDH good sir, do you think this will have any impact on the Satellite Amplification debacle from a few years back? They had legally purchased the design / trademarks for the Coronet model after Gibson fucked up and allowed for them to expire after not producing them for some years. After catching wind of this, Gibson was able to strong-arm the small boutique builder into selling back the trademarks as S.A. had no money to fight it out in court, and thus had to stop production of the guitar, whilst Gibson has since come out with a much-hyped re-issue of the Coronet, with not many people mentioning the aforementioned debacle. Seems like many reviewers were just sweeping it under the rug, since it was a widely covered case only 4 years ago! \m/
@johnmorrison71666
@johnmorrison71666 6 ай бұрын
Awesome and informative report thank you!
@StephenLight-oc3tl
@StephenLight-oc3tl 6 ай бұрын
Why didnt Gibson go after Hammer for thier take on the Explorer and the Les Paul double cutaway?
@AuntAlnico4
@AuntAlnico4 6 ай бұрын
They did in 2017 when Hamer was coming out with modern imports that were better than most usa Gibson so they sued hamer into oblivion, same thing happened with Dean, Gibson seen Deans import was better than their usa guitars so they sued, it's disgusting really and the neither cases should have ever been heard in the modern day, maybe 40 years ago but not today and that's proof Gibson was just playing non competition law suit games and not actually protecting their trademark but using it as a way to sue their competition into oblivion, it worked with Hamer so they figured Dean might fall as quick but they fight and thank the guitar gods they did because they will prevail !
@seanhammer6296
@seanhammer6296 6 ай бұрын
I never did like the Dean headstocks. They just don't look good for tuning, unless you put a locking nut/Floyd Rose on it, or something.
@dvdrtrgn
@dvdrtrgn 6 ай бұрын
It does have a willful disregard for practical engineering.
@alecc130
@alecc130 6 ай бұрын
By allowing evidence of other products which weaken Gibson's trademark claims brands such as Hamer ( JAM industries), ESP, or Jackson (FMIC) could be attached to the case as necessary parties to the defense. That is a worse case scenario for Gibson, as they picked Dean to sue as a small weak company in a court district notorious for siding with larger corporations (surprised the appeal didn't include improper forum). Now they could be facing juggernauts of the industry that will gladly eat their lunch if they can.
@robertbennett2783
@robertbennett2783 6 ай бұрын
Great news! Maybe I'll finally be able to get a Dean V Select Floyd Quilt Top Trans Brazilia
@CrossGuardMania
@CrossGuardMania 6 ай бұрын
hopefully dean guitars can get back on the horse with this news, like the glory days of dean in the 2000s and early 2010s, those were great times for dean imo.
@Kylora2112
@Kylora2112 6 ай бұрын
Agreed. I have 4 Zs, and love them all ♥
@JCDenton95
@JCDenton95 6 ай бұрын
Dean rocks. Gibson can go kick rocks.
@triledink
@triledink 6 ай бұрын
I just really want to be able to buy ''original'' dime guitars, but Im waiting to see what dime guitarz have in store in the future.
@vorpalblades
@vorpalblades 6 ай бұрын
Dean still holds the Stealth and Razorback designs. What would they be able to offer?
@zeusapollo8688
@zeusapollo8688 6 ай бұрын
Diamond guitars?
@AuntAlnico4
@AuntAlnico4 6 ай бұрын
Dean Zelinsky is tasked with making the new a Dime guitars, that's already contracted to him, not Dean guitars in Florida.
@vorpalblades
@vorpalblades 6 ай бұрын
@auntjenifer7774 what will they offer though? They can't use the ML, Stealth or Razorback.
@oddlifestyle
@oddlifestyle 6 ай бұрын
Maybe I’m speaking in ignorance, but it’s crazy that the argument of trademark on the guitars doesn’t include the headstock, I consider apart of the body of the guitar. And as you said, people tend to look at the Headstock or the brand logo when shopping, which is usually located on the headstock. If someone wants a Gibson explorer, they’re getting a Gibson explorer, if someone wants an ESP explorer, they’ll get an ESP explorer, I just feel leaving the headstock out makes it unfair in the guitar market.
@daviddavies3637
@daviddavies3637 6 ай бұрын
You are right about people caring more about the name on the headstock rather than the shape itself. However, I wouldn't call a small change in the name "a stretch." Under Trademark law, anything that's too similar can be challenged by the trademark owner as "passing off" - essentially the worst case of all because the infringer is deliberately trying to confuse the consumer into buying their product rather than that of the trademark's owner. The fact that they used the offending word in conjunction with "Hummingbird" just made it more egregious and certainly put it into the "deliberate attempt to confuse" camp. So, I'm surprised that didn't go any further. But the reason Gibson are likely to lose this is because of their own inaction. The new evidence of other companies copying the designs but not being chased after by Gibson is the nail in coffin. Primarily because Dean can suggest to the court that the reason Gibson are targeting them now is simply because they've become successful enough to take away artists that might have otherwise signed up to Gibson for signature guitars.
@driscollmach1219
@driscollmach1219 6 ай бұрын
This should open the door for ESP to return to making explorers, vs, and Paul’s
@jeffallen3382
@jeffallen3382 6 ай бұрын
I didn't even know that Dean was still in business. LOL
@aaronhiggs
@aaronhiggs 6 ай бұрын
They very much are. Still make some great guitars here in Tampa.
@TheStinkyDinkyBand
@TheStinkyDinkyBand 6 ай бұрын
I love the cursive logo they’ve been using. In fact, it’s the only reason I’d play one now.
@westernfilet
@westernfilet 6 ай бұрын
"Complete vindication" seems to be a stretch by Dean.... but that's on brand or them. lmao
@trevorclarey3336
@trevorclarey3336 6 ай бұрын
This may be a big deal for these companies but I would buy the guitars I wanted to buy regardless of name or shape.
@david.cutipa
@david.cutipa 6 ай бұрын
you know the video is gonna take a huge twist when khd says "... BOT"
@CaptainCraigKWMRZ
@CaptainCraigKWMRZ 6 ай бұрын
...and flips his hair... Again! I'm 62 and almost bald, but, cut it to reasonable.
@9unslin9er
@9unslin9er 6 ай бұрын
I'm pretty salty Dave Mustaine went from Dean to Gibson.
@bobilly
@bobilly 6 ай бұрын
Me too, his Gibsons are...not great looking 🤮
@jacksonmarshallkramer5087
@jacksonmarshallkramer5087 6 ай бұрын
Hamer makes the nicest Explorer. Well, they used too.
@carlcarl6032
@carlcarl6032 6 ай бұрын
What about Hamer's Flying V and Explorer?
@WhiteNoiseStudio86
@WhiteNoiseStudio86 6 ай бұрын
If only this could back track to the esp lawsuit as well so they can start making the exp/mx model! But it’s probably too late and they have found pretty good success with the snakebite James hetfield model.
@tone5959
@tone5959 6 ай бұрын
It's like someone building a rocking chair a little bit different and then The Rocking Chair Company suing them for it
@TheStinkyDinkyBand
@TheStinkyDinkyBand 6 ай бұрын
Is that a band? “The rocking chair”? 😂
@mikesyria1787
@mikesyria1787 6 ай бұрын
How did hammer not get sued for the explorer standard
@theelectrodefunhouse4651
@theelectrodefunhouse4651 6 ай бұрын
That and I feel like Dean was a part of history along with Hamer with making the Explorer and V cool to have and was the first of the smaller companies that wanted to make an off the shelf guitar like something out of Gibsons golden age
@Sabhoh
@Sabhoh 6 ай бұрын
How big exactly are these guitars?
@andreaspedersen3952
@andreaspedersen3952 6 ай бұрын
4:18 Miyako Watanabe!! Love Lovebites! Great guitarist and composer. On top of it a concert level pianist and Star-Wars fan! ..and very pretty! Perfect!
@collectingtengu4905
@collectingtengu4905 6 ай бұрын
Does this mean ESP can make the MX shape again?
@Chumly-sh6xu
@Chumly-sh6xu 6 ай бұрын
If this favors for Dean, we as the consumer can finally possibly see those awesome 90’s ESP explorers return!
@CaptainCraigKWMRZ
@CaptainCraigKWMRZ 6 ай бұрын
Thank you for making this video!
@martynridley3671
@martynridley3671 6 ай бұрын
Ultimately, I think all this fighting bodes well for us as players, especially where the main contenders are concerned. Their elite names are dissolving in a sea of manufacturers who are offering better specs on our favourite guitars and at far more affordable prices. They will have to up their quality and adjust their prices to stay in the game, especially if they want to retain their 'elite' names.
@tonyrapa-tonyrapa
@tonyrapa-tonyrapa 6 ай бұрын
Regardless of the actual trade mark dispute, I strongly believe that most people will look at those shapes and think of Gibson.
@Anonymous-o6t6p
@Anonymous-o6t6p 6 ай бұрын
LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOO
@AuntAlnico4
@AuntAlnico4 6 ай бұрын
😂 why do you youngsters have an infatuation with Goo !?
@Worthlesstrash1986
@Worthlesstrash1986 6 ай бұрын
I'm not in the market for a new fiddle, but this makes me want to pick up a Dean just because lol.
@PedroMelo2-qc5yq
@PedroMelo2-qc5yq 6 ай бұрын
I’m in awe of this video.
@Riverdeepnwide
@Riverdeepnwide 6 ай бұрын
'83 Dean Z here, the only new guitar I ever bought new because it is so freaking good and that compared to the '57s '58s '59s and 60's I had got my hands on back then too. Still overall the best performing instrument of about 25 great ones in the stable. It's just so damned big and pointy though, still trying to not bump into things.
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