Mastering Winning Advantages in Chess: Human vs. Engine Perspectives

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Күн бұрын

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@KF1 4 ай бұрын

Great video. This is why I have trouble analyzing with the engine- it only sometimes gives moves that I would actually play. More often it just makes me feel confused. The downside of learning from Stockfish is that it has no grasp of how difficult some plans are for a human to see. I wish there was a Stockfish-Maia hybrid where you could toggle "objectively most accurate" or "most accurate for a human in time pressure". About the homework position, I was immediately drawn to engaging with the knight, but did not like interrupting the battery. I would still play it, though, and keep the dark bishop in reserve in case the black king tried to escape the corner (which would allow bishop takes h6). Bishop g5 is probably objectively stronger, and maintains the battery, but it is much harder to see.

@Dr.CansClinic 4 ай бұрын

Love this comment, including the answer to the hw position!

@ibiwisi 4 ай бұрын

Love your idea of a Stockfish-Maia hybrid! Sign me up!

@michaelf8221 4 ай бұрын

Bg5 and there's no counterattack on our queen or support for the knight, so the only line to calculate is hxg5 hxg5+ Kg8 gxf6 and the threat of Rh8+ seems to directly win.

@mikkelhansen3714 4 ай бұрын

Think there are more nuances. Simplest is obviously Ne4 and there is no counterplay. With Bg5 black will not take the bishop and allow mate but go for say Kg8 which is very much losing for him, but not super clear how. In multiple lines after Bg5 we will still end up playing Ne4 anyways so

@Dr.CansClinic 4 ай бұрын

Thanks for the answer! But do they need to capture the bishop? Meanwhile our poor knight is still on c3.

@eschiedler 4 ай бұрын

homework spoler - no engine Off the top of my head, I recall the homework position but not the solution. Between candidate moves Ne4 and Bg5, I would say Ne4 is the more "human" move. That is because it is relatively easy to see that black's knight cannot move and Ne4 adds another attacking piece for white with no downside. It's easy to see that a pawn storm can follow up as well. It's easy to see that keeping the double bishop battery pointed at the king is excellent. After Ne4, both Ne5? and Nh5? lose immediately to Ng5 threatening Nf7+. That is, black has no counter-attack. If black trades knights, Ne4 Nxe4 Bxe4 Kg8 Qh7+ Kf8 Bg6 Bf6 Bxh6 all seems forced and winning for white. Black's remaining pieces are inactive. Also, Ne4 Kg8 Bxh6 Bf8 Nxf6+ Qxf6 Qh7+ Kf7 Bg5 wins the queen and black is lost. Without calculating further, there might be a resource for black to save the game, but there is definitely no counterattack for black at first glance. In contrast, Bg5 requires caclulating several lines to see if it is an improvement over Ne4. In other words, the sacrifice must be justified and white's knight is still one turn away from joining the attack. Of course black will not take with the h pawn. Bg5 hxg5 hxg5+ Kg8 gxf6 Bxf6 Rh8+ Kxh8 Qh7# Probably black will try something along the lines of Bg5 Kg8 Bxf6 Bxf6 Qh7+ Kf8 Bg6 Ke7 Bxe8 Qxe8 Ne4. This is solid for white but not necessarily better than lines starting from Ne4. It's simpler to simply add another active piece with Ne4 and get the attack started before black can add a defense. edit move typos

@Dr.CansClinic 4 ай бұрын

Love it, thanks as always for your detailed analysis!

@dalente 4 ай бұрын

Love this new edit, with less pauses: makes me so more focused in the video

@Dr.CansClinic 4 ай бұрын

Thanks for the feedback! I will reduce ads from now on 😊

@dalente 4 ай бұрын

@@Dr.CansClinic I’m not even talking about ads (I have KZbin premium) but about the video editing itself! It’s been some months since I saw your videos but the edition is different now, isn’t it?

@Dr.CansClinic 4 ай бұрын

@@dalente Haha, is that so? :) I did not do anything special, although I think there are more edits on this one :)

@dalente 4 ай бұрын

@@Dr.CansClinic I thought it was faster, with less pauses. I Might be wrong though

@Gameborn_ 4 ай бұрын

when I analyze with the engine, and it shows me a detail like the ones you showed, I just smile and move on it is nice to see such ideas, as you can use them to expand your "quiver" of ideas, but that should be about it

@Dr.CansClinic 4 ай бұрын

Really well said!

@mudassirali6837 4 ай бұрын

I initially liked Knight to E4, because its attacks the knight which is the defender of H7 square. Bishop to G5 is venomous and difficult to see and may be winning only if the opponent captures. If they dont capture it can become complicated and as you said, it forces white to win the game twice.

@Dr.CansClinic 4 ай бұрын

I agree! ☺

@brainfellow5140 4 ай бұрын

Re: Homework, my thoughts: Bg5 looks intimidating as it seems the bishop cannot be captured hxg5 as it would open a check on the h-file, and after Kg8, black's knight remains and white has given up a bishop to open the file... white could bring Rh7 threatening Qxg7#, but black can defend with Bf8 and now Nxh7 becomes an issue for white, it seems attack has fizzled... Ne4 seems at first to block the queen-bishop battery but it does restrict black's dark-squared bishop and also introduces ideas of coming to same g5 location (with same possible file-opening as if bishop had gone there in previous paragraph) threatening fork on f7 _and_ adds more pressure to h7... I think given the two options, I would chose the knight move over the bishop move. If black trades off knights, the battery and mate threat is reintroduced on h7...

@Dr.CansClinic 4 ай бұрын

Thank you so much! I agree with your judgement!

@erikfromc 4 ай бұрын

Homework position: I'm not sure if there's much objective difference between Ne4 and Bg5, but Bg5 feels simpler to me for one reason: it doesn't interrupt the connection of white's Bishop and Queen, which means mate in one if black moves his Knight. So if I had to pick between the two moves, that's what I'd choose. However, I also liked g4, starting a pawn storm against the weakened king. Bxh6 also feels right, but far more complicated than the choices you gave.

@Dr.CansClinic 4 ай бұрын

Thanks! Really logical thought process and even g4 is a good candidate! I just want to bring the worst-placed piece to the party, hence Ne4 looks simpler to me!

@erikfromc 4 ай бұрын

@@Dr.CansClinic Good point; the Knight isn't doing anything on c3, so it may as well come join the fun.

@ibiwisi 4 ай бұрын

I love this video! @DrCansClinic, I think you are breaking new ground here. I watch and read a lot of chess content, but I haven't seen anyone before who so boldly "refutes" the idea of accepting engine moves as de facto best. One thought: I often have trouble when I analyze my moves against the Masters database. At my level (around 1550 Lichess Classical), Master moves often are about as useful (or not) for my learning as Stockfish moves. I've started reviewing my games against the Lichess database instead, setting the game collection to show players just one or two tranches above my rating level. I figure, finding moves that have strong winning percentages in that database is a more practical way for me to train myself on moves I might actually make in my games. I'd love to hear others' thoughts on this. @DrCansClinic, thanks for giving us "permission" to feel good about moves that meet the requirements of the position, even if Daddy Stockfish doesn’t approve! 😉

@Dr.CansClinic 4 ай бұрын

Thank you so much for your kind feedback Michael! Really motivating! Your question will probably deserve a future video. I will take a note of that! But my feeling is that what you are doing is right - as long as you also understand the reasons why those moves are played around that level.

@ibiwisi 4 ай бұрын

@Dr.CansClinic Of course, it's all about The WHY Question! 😉

@slixperi 4 ай бұрын

In the second problem, I was actually calculating Qxa2 and Rxb2 for quite some time. Rg8 didn’t even occur to me as a candidate move. I don’t know why. Maybe all of the tactics puzzles just have me defaulting to “forcing moves” or captures or something. But once you pointed out Rg8 it was very obvious…and I absolutely notice the same trends when reviewing my games with a coach. I don’t know how to break that habit or increase my chess “creativity” or w/e you might call it.

@Dr.CansClinic 4 ай бұрын

Very interesting feedback, thanks for sharing it! I think you are right: it is this puzzle bias where you always look for the most forcing options first, starting from checks and captures. ...Rg8 becomes natural once you set your goal properly and orient towards what the position demands from you - without searching for a forced mate. That is the reason I mix tactical and positional puzzles in my courses - that is the way to tackle this bias.

@slixperi 4 ай бұрын

@@Dr.CansClinic I have thoroughly enjoyed Fundamental Chess Calculation skills. I am currently working through The Value of Pawns…but am really struggling with a good deal of the problems. I’ve also been working through 600 Practical Chess Exercises with approximately a 50/60% success rate.

@southernrun9048 4 ай бұрын

Very refreshing video. Makes total sense about the point of playing as humans and not engines. Thanks

@Dr.CansClinic 4 ай бұрын

Really happy to hear your thoughts, thank you!

@exsurgemechprints2671 4 ай бұрын

when I use the engine to analyze why I lost, the recommendations are absurd: the engine line suggests something like "trade off the whole queenside, this way wins a pawn"

@Dr.CansClinic 4 ай бұрын

Thanks for the feedback. We always need careful human judgement to interpret what engines spit.

@anthonyjaglal 4 ай бұрын

Sometimes you just can't understand what the computer is seeing,it's so brain racking, while a human move is much obvious, and easy to see🤔 enjoyed the examples 👍

@Dr.CansClinic 4 ай бұрын

Great point! Thank you so much 🙏

@adnanghaleb2196 4 ай бұрын

Thanks, good video

@Dr.CansClinic 4 ай бұрын

Thank you too!

@Aramalisadventures 3 ай бұрын

In position of 1.Rxg7 capturing Black’s bishop, as a human I would play 1…Qb4 2.c3 Qxb2+ 3.Qxb2 Rxb2 4.Kxb2 Kxg7 This is my human way of playing 😊😅 I think this is more simplified than Rg8 move Greetings from Beirut, Lebanon!

@Dr.CansClinic 3 ай бұрын

Thank you! That also looks very human :) The only issue is that we must then calculate 1...Qb4 2. Qh6, creating a mate threat on h7 :)

@risingmojofilter 4 ай бұрын

I'm saying Bg5. If hxg5, then hxg5+ kg8 gxf6 and the king surely will be mated soon by queen + bishop + rook. If kg8, then Bxh6 with the pin threatening mate. At least that was my first answer. Then I looked at Ne4 a bit more deeply and it seems like a similar result but with fewer lines to calculate. If knight takes, bishop takes and the mate is still threatened. Kg8 is forced and just like in the other line we can go with the same Bxh6 pin. I think both moves are good, but Ne4 is easier to play.

@Dr.CansClinic 4 ай бұрын

Excellent! I agree with your analysis and comparison of these two moves.

@AgentSmith-w8s 4 ай бұрын

I read alot of "Chess engine books" Mainly by mattew Sadler and watch his channel and its great,but winning in a computer way is not the human way....Forcing lines and insane computer sacrifices are nice but A to B chess is best.

@Dr.CansClinic 4 ай бұрын

Thanks for the feedback! Sadler is very good! He makes engine games look fun! ☺️

@AgentSmith-w8s 4 ай бұрын

@@Dr.CansClinic Yeah he's very excited about chess engines...His books are brilliant.

@jonnyjansson7320 4 ай бұрын

A very interesting video! in the homework position, I prefer 1.Bg5 over 1.Ne4. In both cases, the threat of capturing on f6 forces black to play 1..Kg8 due to the mate threat on h7 after the capture. If Black doesn't play this move, black loses a piece straight up. Of course, 1..hxg5 isn´t a move since it activates the rook on h1 after 2.hxg5. After 1.Bxg5 Kg8, I think White should play 2.Bxh6 Bf8 3.h5 with the idea 4.Bxg7 followed 5.h6 and White wins in my opinion. Today, i found the second position very interesting. After realising almost immediately that 1.Rxg7 kxg7 2.Qg5+ is a draw. I looked at 1..Rg8 forcing a rook trade, but I didn't like that the queen's are still on the board giving White's some chances of a perpetual due to Black's damaged pawn structure oround the king. So, I started to look for other options. 1..Rxb2 caught my eye, but I didn't see anything immediate and it seemed to complicated to calculate and I dismissed it almost immediately. But the move 1..Qb4, I think is very interesting because now White cannot play 2.Qh6 threatening mate or 2.Qg5 due to 2.Qe1#. This is, however, not the main idea behind the move; the idea is to trade queens. I calculated two variations: 2.Qe3 Qxb2+ 3.Kd1 Qb1+ 4.Ke2 Rb2 with a devastating attack and 2.c3 Qxb2+ 3.Qxb2 Rxb2 4.Kxb2 Kxg7 and Black has a rook for nothing. The question is, If one is low on time should one invest some of it calculating the 1..Qb4, which leads to, i think, to positions which plays themselves even with an increment of 2 or 5 sec in a blitz game or should one save that time for the simpler 1..Rg8 and used it to avoid falling into a perpetual? It is not so clear to me what is the most practical approach in this case: 1..Rg8 seems simpler in the beginning and slightly more complicated later, but 1..Qb4 is more complicate in the beginning but much simpler later.

@Dr.CansClinic 4 ай бұрын

Thank you so much for your kind feedback and detailed analysis! I wonder why you did not like ...Rg8, as I don't see at all how the white queen can harrass our king after the rook trade on g8. In fact, our rook is about to harass the white king at that moment! Perhaps handwaving? On the contra, I would say ...Qb4 looks more complex than ...Rg8, as you are leaving both the rook on g7 as well as the white queen on the board. Then you must calculate more lines to make sure you survive, at least on the surface. Perhaps White then has a surprising move that both defends against ...Qe1+ as well as regenerating their Qh6 threat? Perhaps the rook on the 7th rank will do sth. crazy? In time trouble, I would surely play ....Rg8, as I know the rooks will be traded off and I will emerge with an extra rook, with a safer king :) But perhaps i am a simple man :)

@battlescard213 4 ай бұрын

Very instructive. Thanks

@Dr.CansClinic 4 ай бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

@No_1_here 4 ай бұрын

Great video keep it up!! Yesterday i played in an important tournament and i sacrificed my queen to hunt the king but i messed up and i lost and when i analysed the game it was full of mistakes and blunders at the king hunt part... Can you please make a video about how to hunt / chase the king???

@Dr.CansClinic 4 ай бұрын

Thanks for the feedback! I already made one on pawn storms, have you seen it? Another one is coming soon on destroying the pawn cover around the enemy king!

@No_1_here 4 ай бұрын

@Dr.CansClinic Oh I will check it out! Thanks 😊

@twentyrothmans7308 4 ай бұрын

Hi Dr Can, I didn't sleep well last night, and that bird behind you looks like he's moving. I don't trust him. Position 2: Rxb2. White feels like he is being hunted, and he is. Position 3: As you say, the King is the most flexible piece here. Homework: I liked Bg5, but Black doesn't have to play hxg5 - unless he's greedy, then hxg5+, but the K can hide on g8, and gxf6 takes his Knight and allows the Queen in. It also doesn't block the Bishop from the Queen.

@Dr.CansClinic 4 ай бұрын

You can trust a raven 😉 I like your answer to the hw position!

@cwgriffin1 4 ай бұрын

Bg5 . I like that I'm not distrupting the w Bishop-Queen diagonal. And even if Black doesn't play hxg5, you have Bxf6 and then mate in 1. I feel I don't have to play like a computer, I just have to win ; ). Thanks again!

@Dr.CansClinic 4 ай бұрын

Thanks for the answer, logical that you don't want to block the battery. But where is the mate after 1...Kg8? Our poor knight on c3 is still on its barn there...