Keep your feed in tarfif - Givenergy AIO and Gateway Installation - All in one offgrid power

[@gtek8021]

Great presentation Mark very comprehensive explanation.

[@givenergy]

Great video Mark!

[@easyyards3154]

Another great video Mark. Could you expand upon the mysteries of the DNO application for a battery storage installation with an existing solar array that receives the FIT please.

[@electrician247]

So long as the PV is left alone the DNO aspect is all the requires notification. Most battery inverters are beyond 3.6kW so would require a G99 notification process to gain permission to connect. Your installer will be able to guide you through that.

[@easyyards3154]

@@electrician247 thanks for the prompt reply. Have you considered doing an in depth video on G99’s regarding application and notification once installed with a A3-2 form I think. Your videos about applying for MCS and filling in the application for G99 were brilliant, but I still find aspects of the process a mine field. Installers are usually to busy, unlike your good self.

[@electrician247]

@@easyyards3154 A3/2 is a similar form to the application. You would need to be a qualified electrician/installer for the DNO to process one. I will share one in a future video.

[@easyyards3154]

@@electrician247 finally, are you using connect direct yet? Is it easier? Are the outcomes better or worse? I’ve read that installers could receive immediate confirmation, however in likelihood, battery addition would be referred to the DNO, so akin to a normal G99 but contact and progression is handled by the ENA connect direct. Your progression is within the service and you can commission from there as well. On a separate point, would it be wise to oversize an AC coupled inverter in this scenario to take advantage of a higher discharge rate to cover the home load demand? Any positives and/or negatives with this route?

[@electrician247]

@@easyyards3154 we use connect direct yes. No real difference in ultimate outcome but much easier. I would speak to your installer in terms of setup.

[@HoudiSteel]

Very interesting. When you were in the garage next to the AIO (at about 3:30 in the video) there was a very noticeable hum. I'm going to have an AIO and gateway installed inside the house and am concerned that it will be audible to adjoining rooms. Is the hum in the video coming from the AIO please?

[@electrician247]

AIO is silent. Hum probs my audio equipment. It does clunk relays on first start up but otherwise quiet. Worth referring to the PAS if you are putting the AIO indoors. Should really be outdoors or in a garage etc now.

[@HoudiSteel]

@@electrician247 Many thanks - what’s the PAS please? The concern with outdoors is the drop off in performance due to cold weather.

[@Phil-kt6hc]

Hi Mark, Phil from Cardiff here (I know it's a long way). Very impressed with this householder - I'm sure they are very proud of the kit they have accumulated. I'm guessing that if you were planning a system from the start it would be a whole lot more streamlined. Just a thought... would you consider designing a system (at a fee obviously) for an extension we are planning? I'm very impressed with your technical knowhow. It would include all the kit that the customer in this instal has. I am thinking of applying to upgrade to 3 phase as part of the upgrade/ extension.

[@electrician247]

Hi Phil, more than happy to help. We do travel for projects should the need arise. My email is [e-mail] if you want to send an details. It is jut .Co on the end. Confuses everyone, worse decision I ever made lol. Take care Mark

[@th3w4nted]

Great job!

[@wajopek2679]

I see the benefits of a gateway in terms of a one box wiring interface solution but is it absolutely necessary and could an install be done without it? In 35yrs we have had only three 1hr max power outages so it would serve no purpose but another box on the outside of a house that will eventually corrode.

[@electrician247]

Atm it can not be done without a gateway. But that is due to change! However the benefits far outweigh the negatives for me. Especially when the possibility of managing multiple battery systems could well be a possibility with the existing hardware in the gateway. These are absolute beasts and full of features waiting to be unlocked. I should add we have had 3 power cuts in 8 weeks. One lasted for 18 hours. So it's important to understand our experiences are not everyone else's.

[@DanielleJenkin-k7m]

Have you changed the type AC RCDs that they supply? GiveEnergy have said that you can change them to type A

[@electrician247]

No. The PV was on an AC rcd already and upon measuring the DC leakage gave a result of 0mA. Which I found surprising. My own investigations have returned some very small instances of DC blinding. I've had the chat with Giv technical a few times on this already. Sometimes it's worth considering for sure.

[@4D-YT]

Are they LIFEPO4 batteries in these give energy all in ones?

[@electrician247]

Yes

[@johnbow100]

Hi Mark. To keep your feed in tariff do you disconnect the original inverter but leave it in place when you install new givenergy inverter and battery?

[@electrician247]

No the original inverter remains with the dc strings running to it. The ac out from the existing inverter is then sent to the gateway. So the existing install is not interfered with allowing existing arrangements to remain in place in terms of FIT. Thanks

[@johnbow100]

@@electrician247 Thanks for clearing that up for me!

[@andysparks3193]

Hi Mark, in terms of regs, is there an issues fitting a zappi to the back up system on an 'all in one' or Powerwall?

[@electrician247]

Not that I can think of no. Although it would deplete the battery pretty quickly

[@andym1548]

Good video, have you installed any with more than one AIO? We use about 35-40kw a day so one AIO would be a benefit but nothing like enough... GivEnergy say they can do up to eight AIO in paralell but not seen any on KZbin anywhere.

[@electrician247]

Not currently possibly but it’s coming as GE have shared on the marketing… but this has been delayed since late last year now

[@davidsinclair144]

Hi Mark, can you connect two PV systems into the Givenergy Gateway? I have an existing FIT system and will put a new separate SEG system onto my garage. The FIT system will be unchanged and can continue to report generation to my elec company. When monitoring the two PV systems can be treated as one with the CTs controlling output to house, battery, diverter and export to grid. Thanks, David

[@electrician247]

You can but not in the way you maybe hope. The new system goes into the gateway PV input. Older system stays in the existing consumer unit and connects into the gateway along with the house loads aka consumer unit. You can still use a lora meter to see the generation most likely if you wanted in the app. Otherwise it will all work as needed you just won’t see the older FIT system in the app etc. hope that helps.

[@davidsinclair144]

@@electrician247 Thanks Mark, does that mean that the old PV system would be "seen" as (a reduced) house load and only the new PV system would charge a battery or EV connected via the Gateway?

[@MikeGleesonazelectrics]

is there any point having the solic now the AIO is in? Is there not a conflict with export power?

[@electrician247]

No conflict. The AIO takes priority. When export resumes after that the solic kicks in until export stops. That said it will never run as the ashp is keeping tank constantly up to temp anyway. But their for the times it might get a run out in summer.

[@lakeside791]

Hi mark please can you tell me would the Givenergy hybrid gen 3 inverter with solar panels work ok with the Givenergy all in one battery with thanks

[@electrician247]

It does so long as the hybrid doesn’t have batteries attached. Currently that is not allowed as the batteries get into a boot loop charging each other etc. but we have used the hybrid as a string only inverter on a couple of jobs in the hope that becomes a thing in the future (I suspect it will)

[@lakeside791]

@@electrician247 thank you

[@MikeGleesonazelectrics]

very informative and impressive installation.. do you have any experience of Sunsynk systems? if so how do you rate them? Keep up the good work!

[@electrician247]

Not a huge fan tbh. But we have only done a couple of them. Prefer solar edge, givenergy and solax. But we all have our favorites

[@lakeside791]

Hi mark want inverter and panels to make 7 kw roof system approximately would you recommend to go with the givenergy all in one thank you in advance and great video s

[@electrician247]

Depends on roof orientations tbh: if 7kw in one direction probs an 8kW solax string inverter: if split east/west could use a 4kw or 5kw again we tend to use solax as reliable and simple PV inputs to the wider AIO setup. Jinko 435W all blacks are a good start point on panels but again depends on roof size

[@lakeside791]

Thanks a lot mark

[@arobsony]

Looks good!, Just 1 question. You said you re wired the charger straight in to the gateway but I didnt see an RCD or for the charger inside the gateway. its blanked out i think.

[@electrician247]

RCD is in the charger itself as discussed in the video. The kit for the GivEnergy evse is now available though to fill that gap. Thankfully this evse has a proper RCD in it.

[@arobsony]

Ah I missed that bit! So I’m guessing on that install the giv energy app doesn’t report what’s being used by the charger?

[@electrician247]

@@arobsony No, it will see it as normal houseloads only. The charger only became available a few weeks ago so its all new. I have a video on the channel featuring it. Thanks. You can use a Lora to meter the EV consumption if required on a setup like this but not something needed here.

[@davefish8107]

Every video I see the house has a nice attached garage, which sadly most houses don’t have I have a semi detached house with a shared driveway so nowhere to fit anything in

[@electrician247]

There is always somewhere. Just not the loft

[@johnh9449]

If your customer now has a heat pump that heats the hot water there's no point in solar diversion into an immersion heater because the heat pump is three or four times more efficient - so the export tariff makes more sense for any surplus. Also because they have an EV I presume they are using a cheap rate overnight tariff - they could also time the heat pump to heat the hot water at the same time for even more savings.

[@electrician247]

They do and that’s the beauty of choice. They have a robust setup to help with any energy tariff fluctuations in the years ahead. These are very experienced customers who have PV and solar divert for a long long time.

[@AdamDitheridge]

If you had 2 AIO's in parallel, would they kick out 12KW and cover most of a households loads?

[@electrician247]

This is the unknown atm as GivEnery have still not unlocked this feature

[@goodcat1982]

I'm just trying to get my head around the gateway thing. I don't have solar, i just want battery storage to use with cheap off peak energy at night. If i get the Givenergy AIO why do i need the gateway? If the grid can charge the battery why can't the battery power the house if there's a power cut? The battery powers the house once the grid has charged it up so why can't it keep doing so if the grid goes down? Confused.

[@electrician247]

Multiple reasons the main one is safety. Without a gateway or change over switch you will be back feeding voltage into the grid and can put workers at risk who are working on the network. Separately you can not currently install an AIO without a gateway so its essential in this application. It is also free with the system. If you go for a smaller more basic system you can have an AC coupled battery and feed some circuits via a small EPS board but again this must connect through an EPS change over switch to isolate your house from the grid. Much better and easier to use a gateway.

[@goodcat1982]

@@electrician247 Oh ok fair enough. Thanks!

[@SuperDiagnostic]

Not overly tidy work IMHO

[@electrician247]

Good of you to share such insight. Any examples of your work and I will give you an opinion in return… I will wait. That said this is everyday electrical work and I think the guys pulled off a good job in tricky circumstances. If you want to expand on slightly troll like comment for some better context feel free. Start with your real name, qualifications and some examples of your own stuff. Then we can decide if you’re an expert on the internet who hides behind a keyboard or someone we can take more at face value. I will wait…

[@Piccyman1]

It would be nice to find an honest fitter

[@electrician247]

What do you mean?

[@Piccyman1]

@@electrician247 For example, I priced up the Givenergy all in one 13.6kW battery and 10 panels mounting frames, meter and some bits at 7k, vat exempt. I am getting quotes of 14k -20k, also telling us that it doesn't have VAT in it, like we are getting a good price. I used to price up jobs for a builder, I am not stupid. Oh yeah, I live in a bungalow, easy access, so 2 towers will safely get you on the roof at a push.

[@electrician247]

@Piccyman1 wow you really don't understand the process do you. If its so easy setup in business offering the value you suggest to others. Let me help a little for you though. The admin on a proposal and subsequent completion paperwork is around 1 day, the DNO G99 process also involves time, MCS certification, insurance and onsite assessments carry a cost, the vans to move materials, paying labour to install the systems, profit for the business supplying the services, delivery costs, carrying the VAT burden for you as the customer. I can explain that better for you. Installers are paying the VAT on all the materials but then not receiving that back for sometimes 3 months. It is a benefit to you as a customer paid for by tax payers. You should be grateful, I was in receipt of my benefit from tax payers. I quote lots of jobs when prior installers have gone out of business. Taking customer deposits with them. Usually because they have gone to work on margins based on the mindset of someone such as yourself. These systems should not be installed of towers if you have any regard for people's safety. Mobile platforms are not intended for that purpose. Safe, fixed and certified scaffolding is a requirement for anyone with an ounce of care about others safety. So rather than honest fitters. Perhaps look for honest customers... I find loads who recognise, understand and see value. For 10 panels, AIO, gateway, PV inverter, frames, access equipment, regular business costs 14k is very very reasonable. Also 7k on parts? I think you missed some bits off 🤣🤣🤣 but what do I know. Only buy a few systems a week. Have a great day and maybe reflect a bit.

[@Piccyman1]

@electrician247 I don't need help thanks, and i know the G99 is a pain and a ridiculously long doc to fill in, and I do know about qualifications, mine were 25 years ago cost me a lot of time and over £20K in courses. I ran my own successful VAT registered company for 23 years and retired at 55, so stop moaning, stop ripping people off, making excuses and get on with it, yes i missed a few bits off but nothing expensive, as for the towers read what I wrote. I know how you are conning customers by pocketing the VAT but really adding it on, morally you should be passing it down to the customer, but not. Also I am not accusing you personally, just the ones I have delt with so far.

[@electrician247]

@Piccyman1 that is a direct accusation on a public platform. Only 1 person is moaning and that's you. If you can't afford a solar system save up a bit longer. You have no idea. Could I have your address for the legal letter as your comment very much reads as slander/defomation. The G99 is the easy bit you literally have no idea. Yet all the solar installers are on some form of con... Let me spell it out. We don't charge VAT to customers. £0 yet we spend well over £1000 on every project in VAT costs on materials. We then wait to recover that from the quarterly return. For those solely in solar that's a big bill to carry around for 3 months. The beneficiary is the customer who are effectively in taking a benefit payment from the wider tax payer pool. If you are so successful maybe give the tax payer a break don't take the VAT benefit and support a local installer by paying the proper rate to have a decent job. You have let yourself down here.