Why does your old dye based printer make better looking prints than your new pigment ink printer

What's wrong - why might your old dye based printer make better prints than a new pigment ink one? Reasons to get a pigment ink printer and when your old dye one might still make prints which look better.
Knowing the differences between dye based inkjet printers and pigment ink based inkjet printers is vital if you are getting a new printer to improve your print quality
For a more general look at the differences between dye and ink printers see:
• EPSON vs CANON. Does y...
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[@hoggif]

Good point on editing, that you have pointed out several times. When I got a larger printer I immediately noticed that some quick edits I was ok with needed a bit better editing before I was happy enough to make a larger print. I guess that is a matter I tend to neglect a bit ( I hate sitting in front of computer making small tweaks). I think overall that improves my end result quality, even in smaller prints when refining a bit more gets in.

[@KeithCooper]

Thanks - glad it was of interest.

[@iandawkins2182]

Fantastic video and informative as always. At my time of life, I am more worried about being around long enough to see my prints fade than them actually fading. 😉😉

[@KeithCooper]

Yes - my 'lifetime guarantee' with prints continues to look less enticing as we go... ;-)

[@grahamjohn3603]

Great video should be compulsory viewing for people starting out. I have both types of printer 1 for large prints on mainly Matt paper and the other for a3 plus and below on mainly higher gloss ,Sheen papers. If they made larger dye based printers and I could only have one it would be dye based no hesitation.

[@KeithCooper]

thanks - I've suggested a high end dye printer many times when asked. I'm not holding my breath though :-(

[@grahamjohn3603]

They really seem set on pigment for their larger professional type printers maybe their main customers feel the same .

[@OrelRussia]

Why would you choise a dye-ink printer? Because such prints look better or because of a lesser problem with their head clogging?

[@XanderWarriner]

Brilliant video as always Keith. I decided to go with a dye based printer because of the same benefits you mentioned here. I've ordered a Canon G550 mainly due to your videos of the model, can't wait for it to arrive!

[@KeithCooper]

Glad it was of interest!

[@Neil-Aspinall]

Keef thank you for clarifying the dye v pigment debate. As I told you in another thread I must say that I was slightly disappointed when I first saw my Pro 4100 print on glossy paper. I thought something must have been wrong as to my eye the colour looked slightly hazy and certainly not the popping colour I expected? Now that you say that dye based ink these days can be 'archival' to a degree I think I would have opted for a dye based printer as I do a lot of colorful design work along with colour and B&W photography. You live and learn I suppose.................

[@KeithCooper]

Thanks - unfortunately, there are no higher end [larger] dye based printers beyond something like the Epson ET-18100. That and forget great B&W without a custom ink-set from dyes

[@kittyemzcanada]

Your channel is absolutely the best go-to for good advice, information, and easy to understand explanations, that I have found so far. I am currently looking to buy a better Epson eco-tank printer for my greeting cards. 100X 👍 to you sir...😊

[@KeithCooper]

Thanks - much appreciated!

[@jonathanscherer8567]

I'm doing 11 x 17 prints of my photos on premium luster paper using a dye-based ink. I've really liked the results so far. Epson rates their Claria inks to last 98 years, or 200 in ideal conditions in an album. I figure that's long enough for most purpose. I don't think many of us would-be professional photographers can dive right into high-cost pigment-based ink printers right off. I use third-party printers to fulfill larger prints, but for 8 x 10 or 11 x 17 prints, my current Epson does quite well. I've been surprised at how well it does. I use color managed apps on a Windows PC with an ICC profile that keeps things fairly standardized. Prints look very good and close to what I see on the monitor. It's not a purely professional workflow, but again, it's difficult to afford that kind of set up when you're just starting out.

[@KeithCooper]

Sounds pretty reasonable...

[@goranritterfeldt2608]

Thanks, as always very interesting listening to you. But when comparing printers there is one very interesting aspect, and that has to do with how big prints you can make. I am very happy with my fabulous P 5000 but it would be very interesting to see you compare differences wit the even larger printers. Cost and sort of ups and downs comparing them. Take care Göran from Latvia

[@KeithCooper]

Thanks - my larger printer reviews (apart from the P7500) all predate my making videos - they are all on the Northlight Images web site

[@blynn6240]

This was so helpful- I don’t think hours of researching pigment ink printers vs dye told me as much as this video did. My question is more about color accuracy (My colors have not been printing correctly)… I don’t need the glowy effect, and I can axe the glossy… but a uniform flat texture background might be a deal breaker… The only other thing is on dye based ink on matte paper, the print quality isn’t great bc the ink soaks into the paper creating some fuzziness in the lines. Does that still happen with pigment printers as well?

[@KeithCooper]

A problem some find is the type of matt paper people try is not properly coated for inkjet use - there is nothing whatever to do with dyes - purely the wrong paper Some papers are meant for commercial printing inks and will just look awful in any inkjet

[@blynn6240]

@@KeithCooper thank you! I’m sure it was made for inkjet but maybe it just wasn’t the right quality of matte paper. Can you recommend a good one? I appreciate the help- the ones I’ve tried just don’t seem to get the nice crisp lines the glossy does 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@KeithCooper]

What sort of matt paper - for what, and for what printer? All make a difference

[@kavya1638]

most people are using vivid or high settings, that's where they run into quality issues. those were made for speed, not quality. you have to use presentation paper settings as it uses all the channels on the print head (usable on regular doc paper, cardstock, specialty paper). it uses more ink, but that's the point. there are also photo settings to look into. using a wf-7610, no quality issue there except that precision core technology is prone to clogs... that's pretty much it.

[@KeithCooper]

Quite possibly - but I'll admit that I don't actually know what "vivid or high settings" mean? Probably because [personally] I only print photos with profiles ;-)

[@brianlaunchbury4491]

Good and useful video. I wonder if there's scope to come from the opposite direction by picking one or two genres (say landscapes, architecture and machinery) and working from the best paper to the printer type you should use?

[@KeithCooper]

Thanks. I've a few videos looking at paper type choices and they go about as far as I'm comfortable with into making paper suggestions. It is so much a matter of personal taste... My one [personal] definite use-case for dye would be bright colourful product photos for including in a portfolio presentation on the Titanium Gloss [300] - it's difficult to show on the video, but the glow and impression of 3D form is quite noticeable - they almost feel like transparencies on a lightbox in comparison to normal glossy prints.

[@toshtwentythree195]

thank you

[@KeithCooper]

Glad it was of interest!

[@richardrobinson823]

Read the transcript in about 10% of the time watching it would have taken and would be even less if it was formatted in longer sections. Would that be possible? Some videos work because you need to see things being done but print quality, not so much. Still good content of course. Thanks.

[@KeithCooper]

Ah - there you see the reason I vastly prefer my written articles and never watch photography stuff on youtube ;-) The two styles will persist - all my videos are unscripted, beyond a few bullet points on a small whiteboard near the camera

[@DavidBriard]

Don't know if it has to do with pigment or dye based ink, but for small A4 prints, I am little disappointed that I can't get same level of details (sharpness) with my head aligned P900, than with my entry level Canon G650, with same 300 dpi image file and same paper (rag 308).

[@KeithCooper]

Not sure what this could be - the P900 should wipe the floor with a G650

[@DavidBriard]

@@KeithCooper I know... Do you remember what Quality Settings you would use for mat rag paper on P900? Hahnemulhe recommend 4/5 (1440 dpi I think), may be I should give a try to 5/5 (5000 dpi). I don't think color profile may change something about sharpness? but I think the profile of my G650 looks better than the one of P900, better shadows colors and detail, resulting in better microcontrast... May be.

[@KeithCooper]

Yes a deficient profile might do it...

[@OrelRussia]

It is said that prints from even expensive pigment-ink printers look grainier and colors are not as vivid in comparison to prints from good dye-ink printers.

[@user-zr9io1qz8r]

I've purchased and used several printers over the years and I don't recall ever hearing the terms "Dye Based" or "Pigment Based" on any of the labels or in any of the marketing materials for those printers or the inks sold for them. that said, I doubt it would matter much to me as I rarely print photos/graphics. The vast majority of my printing is text documents, often with some small graphics &/or photos within them, forms that use geometric objects & technical drawings. Would either do me fine? I just purchased an Epson EcoTank printer. Can you tell me which type of ink is used in these?

[@KeithCooper]

Either will likely do - it's as much about the specific printer. The Ecotank models have different ink combinations, so there is no generic answer I'm afraid.

[@emmagardner568]

What would you think would be the most affordable and reliable printer for fine art archival A3 prints.

[@KeithCooper]

Not something I could easily answer I'm afraid... All are reliable, so that that one out of the way... Affordable - what does this actually mean for you? Also what do you really mean by archival? How and why is this important, beyond a marketing feature?

[@timh6332]

Keith, I am using a Cannon Prograf 1000 and decided to try IIford smooth pearl. What are your suggestions for what type of paper to tell the printer it is using? Thanks

[@KeithCooper]

Should be in the paper specifications - check what the makers says. This is always the first choice, especially if there is an ICC Profile

[@nickross133]

Hi Keith. I've gotten into doing multi row panos and want to have some large prints made. One place I've looked at say they use latex ink. Any thoughts on this?

[@KeithCooper]

Tends to have smaller gamut than traditional 'aqueous' inkjet printers. It's also associated with sign-making and commercial print such as wallpaper, rather than any 'fine-art' aspects. Typically bigger printers than I can fit in my home to review ;-)

[@GetOffMyyLawn]

Hey Keith! A few years back(over 10?!?), I made an attempt at using the Eboni EB6 carbon inkset in a dedicated Epson 1400. I loved the silky look of the prints, but struggled with clogs and eventually killed the printhead. Do you have any opinions on best current printer/ink combos for dedicated black and white printing (13x19 max)? Thanks for the videos!

[@KeithCooper]

Yes, I tested several monochrome solutions some 15-20 years ago - unfortunately, the ones actually easy to get in the UK all fell by the wayside - mainly for commercial/business related reasons. Suffice to say I've no system to suggest these days - if someone wants to send me a printer and ink I'd happily investigate further, but none of the printers I normally get to test are going to cut it, since they are usually loans and I don't think Epson/Canon would be happy sending them back a printer with a mix of grey inks in it ;-)

[@GetOffMyyLawn]

@@KeithCooper Thanks... I am watching your ET-8550 video now. I have a small non-photo ecotank model, and I love the economy of it. Would I be able to create custom profiles with only the black/gey inks? I have an old SpyderPrint calibrator. Thanks again for the reply.

[@KeithCooper]

Sorry - profiling won't help here no matter what kit you have. It needs a driver level fix for that - QuadtoneRIP is the only software I know of for this, and Epson make it more and more difficult to support new printers I'm afraid

[@islephoto2536]

Hi Keith, I've just picked up on your comment about testing the ET18100 and I've noticed online that there are Pigment ink kits available for this model from third party suppliers, would that be the ultimate solution to a pigment Ink printer under £1000.00

[@KeithCooper]

If you're happy with the inks... Not an approach I'd try on a printer of my own ;-)

[@dalvinderbasi3495]

Keith, I have sent you an email, relating to the experience of purchase an Epson SC 700 printer.

[@KeithCooper]

OK

[@dalvinderbasi3495]

@@KeithCooper Thank you Keith