Pricing prints to sell - why simple cost based approaches can be so wrong

Рет қаралды 5,677

8 ай бұрын

Are there simple rules for deciding how much to charge for your prints? Why you need to know far more about selling and what people want to buy. Why simple techniques are not really simple and rarely give you meaningful prices.
Are you selling to make a profit or just to recoup some costs? Why online galleries don't tell you what people sell, or how much.
This is one of my articles about the business side of photography:
www.northlight-images.co.uk/business-of-photography/
The story of the 47 foot long print is at
www.northlight-images.co.uk/making-a-14-metre-photographic-print/
There are many business related videos in their own play list on this channel or for a full index of all my videos, see:
www.northlight-images.co.uk/keith-cooper-photography-videos-index/
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Пікірлер: 55

@nelsonclub7722 8 ай бұрын

I don't do formulas - I do what I think my art is worth - last print I sold was £3,500 - believe in what you do

@KeithCooper 8 ай бұрын

Very true...

@timothy790110 8 ай бұрын

I saw a funny poster the other day, it was in a sign writers shop, it said "My prices are based on my talent, not your budget"

@YeahRightMCD 7 ай бұрын

Whachu got?

@nelsonclub7722 7 ай бұрын

@@YeahRightMCD In what respect? - I do use Mf - 40+ yrs in the game. My last print was taken on a 35mm neg though - mic of digi and real if it helps - I even use polaroid when it suits

@YeahRightMCD 7 ай бұрын

@@nelsonclub7722 I like your style!

@ColzoArt 8 ай бұрын

Another helpful video, Keith! Simple formulas don’t work. I’ve started making hand carved prints to sell and if I was to base it simply on materials alone I wouldn’t be actually paying myself a living wage! Digital photographic prints of my paintings at cost still doesn’t pay a living wage either. So charge what I feel it is worth as a finished piece of art

@KeithCooper 8 ай бұрын

Excellent - glad it was of interest.

@tysonator5433 3 ай бұрын

I have sold framed fine art photo prints at different prices in different location. These is mainly because of local market conditions, ie craft fair you can have higher prices as people expect to pay more for hand made local items. A non profit for charity art space I charge less as the customers tend not to be very affluent. So I agree with Keith, it depends....

@KeithCooper 3 ай бұрын

Thanks - yes, it's about understanding your market

@YeahRightMCD 7 ай бұрын

I sure wish this video had more views. Concise, wise, and helpful.

@KeithCooper 7 ай бұрын

Thanks !

@YeahRightMCD 7 ай бұрын

@@KeithCooper You're welcome!

@lohikarhu734 8 ай бұрын

Ha! I once did a seminar about lab automation.. And a couple of people complained that I hadn't told them how; what I had tried to do was to equip them with the right *questions*... Just like you often do on your channel; equip the viewers with the questions, and thought processes! And, as your parting remarks, you need to know your market, above all! Selling a print of a truly unique, really lovely subject should not be a simple question of paper and ink, the price needs to be set for... Well, you said it all. ;-) One customer cares not a bit about a fabulous landscape, but will open the wallet for an abstract macro image of a piece of agate, or a mushroom, or...

@KeithCooper 8 ай бұрын

Thanks. BTW I'd love a peek at the financials for some of the bigger 'online gallery' sites to see how much actually sells as opposed to being listed ;-)

@ugrandolini 8 ай бұрын

Great answer, as usual you are inspiring and offering a vision to find the solution ourselves. Thank you Keith 🙏🏻

@KeithCooper 8 ай бұрын

Thanks - glad it's of interest!

@garygalt4146 3 ай бұрын

Started my apprenticeship 1983. The commercial advertising studio charged £45 per hour contact sheet included. A 10x8 print was £29 over 10 copies £18 100 or more. £12. We process and print in house. So other pro photographers use us and we charged them £12 per 10x8 from there own work. We were always busy.

@KeithCooper 3 ай бұрын

A very different world of photography ;-)

@ddsdss256 8 ай бұрын

Thanks. I leave it to the gallery to determine the price, as they supposedly know their clientele and what they're willing to pay. I don't love the concept of online sales--too much hassle. As you say, there are many variables affecting the actual cost, and paper/ink plus printer maintenance/amortization only account for a fraction of that (assuming you do your own printing and your channel certainly helps in that regard). In the end, it doesn't matter what the "true net cost" is, as you can't charge based on that (unless of course it's commercial work). BtW, I stumbled upon an old Nikon SLR in storage yesterday and there were a couple rolls of Kodak T-Max 100 in the bag. Probably not a good bet bothering trying to shoot those, given their 20+-year age (and lack of refrigeration). I've too abandoned film as I get great results from digital with a lot less fuss (although I still prefer analog music)...

@KeithCooper 8 ай бұрын

Thanks - good galleries can be a superb source of info, since sales are in their best interests too!

@laikiliata 8 ай бұрын

I'm so jealous of my cartoonist friends. They start to count their time when they start to draw and they charge by the hour. As a photographer, I pass so much time wondering around hopping to get some nice pictures (I plan, but I mostly believe in luck). For me, that part is the most awful to quantify, I can't charge people on how unlucky I was that day! So thanks for your video, very much in time to finish the planning of my first Christmas Market ^.^

@KeithCooper 8 ай бұрын

Thanks - glad it was of some interest!

@barnseyb6031 8 ай бұрын

I think the majority of the value of a picture is in the composition itself, not the ink and paper. If the composition creates an emotion in someone, who can put value on that? Great video ❤

@KeithCooper 8 ай бұрын

Thanks Yes - the paper/ink is a means to an end. A big print of a rubbish photo is just a rubbish print ;-)

@uwattie 8 ай бұрын

Yes Keith it is intersting as so many of your videos often are. If the price we arrive at for selling a print should include a photographers % of hishourly rate and a contribution to his photo hardware and his software purchases and subscriptions. An experienced pro who might have a investment in 3 camera systems (APSC, FF and Medium Format) would have a vastly different cost base to a person made redundant who makes a £2k investment In his dream kit of the day and who takes pictures for a 'living' while deciding his next career move. So the 3x costs equasion is as long as anyone's piece of string. So the conclusion must be market rate! But who can nail that particular jelly fish to the studio workbench? I am not convinced that enough prints are ever sold worldwide in any given period for them to amount to any decernable market on which any decisions can be based. All the best and keep up the great work.

@KeithCooper 8 ай бұрын

Thanks - this could be one of those things where the more precise you try to be the less the results can be trusted ;-)

@robertleeimages 8 ай бұрын

I know this is based off my comment about my pricing, none of what i said was in any way to do with it being a business but more only as a hobby to make a little money on the side and that was what the pro's video was about. I outsource my printing opposed to printing at home hence what the x2 or x3 of outlay was about, example it costs me $25aud to have an A3 printed and then to post Australia wide including the cost of tube is $25aud or worldwide $35aud also for a total of $50 low end or $60 high end, so that is my outlay although as i said i don't include travelling, time to capture or editing in that because each one is completely different in that for 1 nightscape i may travel 1.5 hrs each way where as another might only be 5 minutes like the image for my profile photo. So i sell my A3 no matter where it was taken for $110aud postage included whether across Australia or worldwide, that way what i lose posting worldwide being just under x2 i make up if only posting Australia wide being just over the x2. I have sold some A3 in frames and the frames i purchase are $55 but those have only been locally which i have been able to personally deliver, my outlay then is $25 print and $55 frame so i sell those for $180aud. Could i value my work higher? probably, but I'm also not up there with the big guys like Richard Tatti or Alyn Wallace who through using trackers and more advanced editing software and techniques etc produce far better images. I've only sold 8 images this yr with 7 being my profile photo and only sold 6 last yr of various images, but the main thing that is overlooked is i make a little bit of money and I'm happy doing what i do. Anyway after 2am here, so best get some sleep so I'm fresh for a bit of long exposure minimalist photography at the local lake today 😊

@KeithCooper 8 ай бұрын

Thanks very much for your original comments - I really do value people's input and it often sets me off on a theme or general direction for a video. I've long thought that if one person takes the trouble to ask a question, others have thought of doing so, and even more not realised they even had the question to aks ;-)

@robertleeimages 8 ай бұрын

@@KeithCooper i was actually glad it inspired you to make a video on the topic, for me it's a bit of money that helps support the hobby and the satisfaction out of people actually liking my images enough to purchase them

@AZJack 8 ай бұрын

I have always been taught that the market determines your sell price, the cost of producing determines your profit or loss.

@KeithCooper 8 ай бұрын

In broad economic principles that is true, It is however of no actual help in pricing a print ;-)

@AZJack 8 ай бұрын

@@KeithCooper I guess we will agree to disagree.😀

@CalumetVideo 8 ай бұрын

There is a lot here, a lot of it is the market, who is the end buyer? You have to have a print of a subject that appeals to the end user or buyer. There is a large sector to the population that is disinterested in prints. There is another sector that would rather buy some generic print from a big box store. I have found that art gallery websites are of little success for me. I have done better working the art galleries and festivals. People don’t mind dropping cash for a nice framed print.

@KeithCooper 8 ай бұрын

Yes - finding the market comes before pricing ;-)

@philindeblanc 8 ай бұрын

Also not considering the number of prints you do to get the right final output. Also if printing for others, you need to consider the cost of rerunning the print, sometimes 2-3 times.

@KeithCooper 8 ай бұрын

Yes - the list of 'costs' can grow very quickly if you want it to...

@IPfreelyFun 27 күн бұрын

Great video Keith. Do you adjust your price if selling a print with the understanding it's a one off print?

@KeithCooper 27 күн бұрын

Thanks - Depends on the client - If it's a commissioned work, the price may well include the photography and other work. If somebody wants a limited edition of one, then yes that affects the price

@IPfreelyFun 27 күн бұрын

@@KeithCooper Cheers, really appreciate the reply!

@stephendouglas4545 8 ай бұрын

Keith. Great advice. I am working out the details of getting a large format printer to print my own work but maybe sell just enough prints to pay for my ink and paper. I do have a market for that but my latest question has to do with the learning curve of becoming as good at printing as I am at photography. A pro photographer, that I am interacting with regarding print advice, suggests that printing is very technical and not for the faint of heart. I get more of my advice from you than I do from him so I'd like to ask you the follow-up-question, if that is alright? So the question is: In your experience, would you say that learning to be a 'good' printer is at a similar level, technically, that it takes to become a good photographer? (assuming you knew nothing about photography when you began the journey and that you knew nothing about printing once you became a good photographer, if that makes sense?)

@KeithCooper 8 ай бұрын

Thanks - just make sure any large format printer is used enough - they really dislike being left unused... Printmaking can potentially be split in two parts - one is learning to print a perfect test image [like the ones I show in my reviews] - that is a bit technical, but once mastered it means that its about whether the image is good enough to print - sharpening, tonal levels. I don't agree that printing is that difficult - I could teach someone to make great prints of good images even if they knew nothing about photography ;-) Now - techy stuff scares some photographers... but that is an entirely different matter all together :-) :-)

@AffinityPhoto 8 ай бұрын

@@KeithCooper For me, it comes down to how many hours you have in the day. Do you want to become a print expert at the expense of furthering your photography and editing techniques and opportunities? Do you want to take on the risks and costs from failed prints? Printer repairs and maintenance? I used to build my workstation piece by piece but I realized that I could buy a premade and push the warranty and repairs onto a professional company (mac studio). Just because we can do these things doesn't mean it's efficient. However, it you love printing then go for it. There's something to be said by owning the entire chain.