Thank you for having this conversation. I think ya’ll handled this issue really well.
@sorrowinchrist3387 Жыл бұрын
Hi Troy this is dangerous precedent this is what the NAR actually claim too and look just what a mess it has become. I see you are charismatic cause of the statement you just made and if so then you stand with Copland and the NAR and all that ties in it. I just hear too much of what you just said a total replica from pastor of this movement and this is very dangerous and why people love the teachings of Copland and Bill johnson to NT wright.
@debbier2709 Жыл бұрын
Bill Johnson knows exactly what Copeland teaches. He was invited and spoke at Copeland’s annual Southwest Believers Convention.
@laurens8623 Жыл бұрын
Perhaps God set it up so as this could be revealed. Maybe Bethel did get a dream
@carolblair28457 ай бұрын
I love Kenneth Copeland, and I’m beyond disappointed with internet preachers constantly bashing him, calling him names, and even making fun of him ! And he doesn’t answer back to any of it❤ maybe you ought to consult with the Holy Spirit before you decide to vilify someone who just might be your brother in Christ!!!!!
@bobpaul45727 ай бұрын
@@carolblair2845 Maybe You Should Examine Copeland's Psudo Teaching in light of Expositional, Verse By Verse, Chapter By Chapter, Book by Book Exegetical Teaching of The Innerent, Inspired, Infallible Word of God! Their is a Christian Classic work by the Early Church Father Iranaius titled "Against Heresy"! He Refuted All of the First and Second Century Gnostic, Mystic, Esoteric, NeoPagan, New Age/Occultic Blatent Heritical teaching from these False ProFits and Teachers! Jesus and the Apostles devoted about Two Thirds of the New Testament Calling Out False PROFITS and Teachers! They Exhorted Believers to Mark Them and Avoid Them!! Copeland, Hagin, Duplantis, Hinn, Osteen and Thousands of other HyperCharismatic, WOF ( Word of Fake!) HyperGrace, NAR, Signs and Wonders, Freemason, Kabalah, Occultic New Age, Metaphysical, Scam Artists are Ravonous Wolves! They Have Perverted The Word Of God and are Much Closer to Witches and Sorcerers that Christians! Manifestations of the Holy Spirit?......more like Demonic Manifestations of the Hindu Kundulini False/Unholy Spirit! The Copeland was the first WOF teacher to Openly Embrace the False/Unholy Spirit outpouring from Toronto! Spent whole services in Unholy Laughter, rolling around with the Other False Prophet Rodney Howard Browne! Oh....Hagin Joined In with that! Gloria Knows her husband is a Scam Artists, so she just sat their smiling, as the offering $$$$ kept rolling in!! Please see Channels from Biblically Taught Bible Scholars (Many who have Escaped this HyperCharismatic, Heritical Movement!) that Biblically, Scripturally REFUTE these Heritical Teachings!!!! How about Justin Peters, Chris Roseborgh, Daniel Kozar, Daniel Long, Alicia Childers, Melissa Dougherty, Doreen Virtue, Pastor Joe Schmelle to name Just a Few!!!!! Read the Multiple Thousands of Heartfelt Testimonies of people who were Really Involved with this Occultic movement! She the Horror Show that they lived, as a Result of the False Teaching of these Ravonous Wolves! Sure Copeland Never responds to criticism. That is because He Cannot! He Knows Nothing About the Bible In Context! He said that he Received his Great Revelation Knowledge with he walked along a river bank, and A voice CHANNELD this knowledge (Gnosticism) to him word by word?? 😈 😈 He, Hagin, and the whole line of Word Of FAKE False Teachers Plagerised the writings of Kenyon, Phineous Quinbey, Ellen G White, Mary Baker Eddy and the Most Demonic of False Prophets......New Age Helania Blavatsky, Alice Bailey, David Spangler, Benjamin Kream and Many Other New Age Occultists!! 😈 😈 Oh....how about the Copeland, Duplantis, Hinn, Johnson, Bickle (the Pervert) Joyner, CheAhn and a Boatload of other False ProFits and False Teachers Getting Into Bed with Pontiface Maximus Himself, the Very Seat of the AntiChrist.....The Roman Catholic Pope!!!???? 😈 😈 This Satanic Pope just Recently said that he Can't Wait to Baptize an ET.....right out of the UFO!!! 😈 This Demonic Pope Also said that The Next MESSIAH will come as an Alien 👽.....Right Out of a UFO!!!!???? Who will that be......how about ol' 666, The AntiChrist!!! 😈 Why are people like Copeland, Hinn, Paula White, Duplantis, Johnson, Browne, Todd White and Thousands of other HyperCharismatic Word of Fake HyperGrace NAR New Age Occultics on Board with all of the Satanic Blasphemy......because They are Satanic 😈, and they Steal and Defraud the Poorest and Most Vulnerable people in Society!! Thank God the Word says: Be not Decieved, God is Not Mocked, whatever a person Sows, surly they will Reap!!! Gotta stop now.....just Talking about the False ProFits and False Teachers makes me feel Dirty, and in Need of a Shower!!
@paulmerritt24844 ай бұрын
@@carolblair2845 Amen. To get drawn in because of his looks and character and the way the media has painted him has made him teh most popular pastor to bash. It is like the way people hated Trump almost. Mass deception. I too at first was put off about him and thought he must be fake and so I thought the miracle healings and people getting saved were fake. When people bash a pastor with good fruits it hurts the church in general.
@lilones5 Жыл бұрын
If you have to warn someone who is a new believer NOT to go to a church, why would you think it's ok for a mature believer to go there? There's obviously issues that need to be cleaned up before it's wise for anyone to listen to them.
@harveyhintergardt5015 Жыл бұрын
excellent point I agree
@sarahwohltmann1866 Жыл бұрын
They are trying to extend grace, I suppose. A mature believer would hopefully have discernment that would commonly be more lacking in a baby Christian, discernment that could help one to "eat the meat and spit out the bones", so to speak.
@lilones5 Жыл бұрын
@@sarahwohltmann1866 but even a mature Christian is not supposed to knowingly support things that aren't right. Going there, knowing what we know, just to grab one little nugget of truth, while the less mature see you going there.... Just doesn't sit well
@tsizzleowned Жыл бұрын
That's exactly what I was thinking as well. If you have to warn anyone about teachings at a church, then something is wrong with that. That says to me the Holy Spirit is not there because there are teachings there that don't line up with scripture. Also, it seems to create this idea that sometimes the Holy Spirit is there and sometimes it's not.
@micahfisher61254 ай бұрын
Yes! That's what I was thinking while they were making that point. Why support a dangerous ministry? Why risk belief in false teaching? Why have your tithe go towards something that is dangerous?
@Bluesboybiggie Жыл бұрын
I've been in ministry for 40+ years and in the early days I was a follower of Copeland. I would get up every Sunday morning and turn on the "Believer's Voice of Victory" with my notepad and order his cassette tapes, and also supported his ministry monthly (and I'm still not wealthy :) ). One Sunday morning he had the audience get up and stretch before he continued his message (because his intro could be 2 hours) and suddenly his eyes started blazing like fire, he stepped up toward the crowd and yelled, "Well, Lord God! I didn't dismiss the thing!" Maybe they had a plane to catch, maybe they had another appointment, maybe they had heard enough but were kind enough to wait for a break. Whatever the case there was no excuse for embarrassing those people in front of a stadium full of people. I then started examining his teaching and looking more closely at his scriptural references. That "equal with God" teaching isn't new. Phillipians 2:5,6 - Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: (And this is where he would stop, saying that this is also how we should think also). But if you take out the verse numbers you see he stopped mid sentence. The following verses say, "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross." THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF WHAT COPELAND WAS SAYING. It is a call to obedient humility.
@justmorenoise Жыл бұрын
I know many faithful Christ followers who followed Copeland and the whole word of faith movement. I ask them now many are very old and some have gone to be with the Lord. But i question them and show them things and ask for feedback. what is said to me, over and over, is that it was different back then. He used to be good. It was a different time. I’ve never heard him teach that? That must be new. Maybe he has dementia. See these people are to old. Why don’t they retire. Another big one is - I didn’t hear it that way. I don’t think he means it the way you heard. Surely now. In my day we didn’t misunderstand so much. And in my day the preaching was more clear and they covered what they didn’t mean. So what I have maybe observed is that it changed somewhat.. not sure but I’m open to believing gradually over time the teaching has become mixed and people are weak and let success ruin them.
@duncescotus2342 Жыл бұрын
1. Fellowship in the Gospel, Passover, outer court, 30 fold, little children, sins forgiven for his name's sake 2. Fellowship in the Spirit, Pentecost, middle court (holy place), 60 fold (6 number of man times 10 number of the law), young men who have overcome the evil one because the word abides in the them 3. Fellowship of his sufferings, Tabernacles, holy of holies, 100 fold, no longer I who live but Christ in me, fathers "who have known him who is from the beginning"
@annairwin8147 Жыл бұрын
Copeland is VERY dangerous and if you know Jesus, he is not a follower
@duncescotus2342 Жыл бұрын
@@annairwin8147 I know Jesus, and I suspect many people. My paranoia is very spiritual, wouldn't you agree? If you don't, I'm sure you're going to hell.
@WontonDisciple Жыл бұрын
Hey guys. I grew up a charismatic and still am one to this day. I attend a traditionally charismatic church. I use to follow very closely Todd White, who adopts many of the teachings and practices of Bethel and the like. I so appreciate your heart to have grace for these men. It absolutely inspires me. I hope I can have half as much grace for you guys as I write this comment. I have to speak up as a former follower, though, that your pursuit of grace may have you missing some important details that need addressed. When we were learning kenotic Christology back in the day, there was absolutely no indication that Bill interpreted the incarnation the way he says he does today. I would joyfully and zealously pursue this idea that Jesus set aside His entire divinity and was ONLY a man in right relationship with God. I had countless discussions with other followers of Todd White and many lovers of Bethel just celebrating the idea that Jesus wasn’t actually God while on the earth. When Bill started expressing a more orthodox approach to the incarnation, it was extremely confusing to me at the time. We never once thought this was even a consideration. Jesus was not God whatsoever while on the earth, to us at least. And when listening to the Rediscovering Bethel series for the first time, as an optimistic follower of Bethel as I might clarify, I felt as though Bill was constantly contradicting himself, speaking out of both sides of his mouth as some would say. Eventually I came to leave these circles and started testing Bill and the like against the Word and found I was not following correct doctrine. While I love the pursuit of miracles, their views on it so obstructs the call to bring the gospel to the nations. I went to several countries and not once shared the gospel. Why? Because I was taught by Bethel and Todd White that I could DO the gospel. I prayed relentlessly for miracles and healing over others, telling others that Jesus loved them without even a step towards sharing the gospel, because I thought I already shared it by my deeds. I believed my works were the power unto salvation because that’s what I was taught for years. These guys aren’t just sloppy with wording proper theology, but they’re also incredibly sloppy when it comes to attempting to either repent or clear the air of misunderstanding. They have been incredibly reckless with shepherding the flock and, though they may still be Christians, their theology and their practices are so bad that absolutely NO ONE should be going to their services. Please consider my words, viewers. Do not consider them as proper spiritual guides whatsoever. They do get a good amount right, but what they get wrong is so detrimental and so sneaky that we need them to clearly repent before considering them as qualified teachers again. Distinct difference, I’m not saying they aren’t Christian. They are not qualified to lead anyone. Please please at least consider what I am saying. You hardly have an inkling of an idea of how these men and women’s teachings utterly wrecked my walk and my life. For them to invite Kenneth to teach destroys my heart, and I grieve for them and for their church. It speaks volumes, and I’m absolutely terrified they’ve learned close to nothing the past few years. I want to be fair, the same as you guys at Remnant. There’s so much more I could share, but I’ll relent for the sake of not confounding my own message.
@adamriddiough4440 Жыл бұрын
I really hope people read your comment. I appreciate you sharing your perspective. I think they might be a little too gracious towards Bethel, I say this in light of the recent Mike Winger video concerning Bethel
@lilstardust777 Жыл бұрын
Perhaps it was you that was confused all along and are projecting that onto others? This sounds like just an opinion and attempt to sway others when you don't point out specific doctrine you are referring to.
@WontonDisciple Жыл бұрын
@@lilstardust777 it was a matter of deceived deceiving others. Yes, I was confused, though I can still hold others accountable to the Word, even my own deceivers.
@lilstardust777 Жыл бұрын
@@WontonDisciple I can see that you're sincere, but again you aren't showing what he said that goes against the Word. He is allowed to grow and learn over years like the rest of us. Leaders are still students in the Word. The Word makes it clear to me although there are many layers to revelatory insight that Yeshua was fully God and fully man. He had to do everything as a man to show us the WAY. The OT prophecies about the coming Messiah refer to Him as as Everlasting Father. Christ was slain before the foundation of the world. Have u seen the Hebrew meaning of the names given in the first genealogy? "Man appointed mortal sorrow. The blessed God shall come down teaching and giving peace to the who suffer." Pray for understanding and deeper insight. Don't assume a teacher is bad because you may not have studied to show yourself approved and may be confused.
@WontonDisciple Жыл бұрын
@@lilstardust777 leaders are to be above reproach. There's a standard they are under that we aren't. I'm not referring to minor mistakes here. These are the kinds of teaching and leading errors that leave people disillusioned with their faith and create a culture that allows for too many things. I'm not saying disfellowship them or call them apostate. I'm simply desiring them to step down from leadership for the time being until these things can be cleaned up. And people should avoid listening to it until that happens. I was once a part of this culture, it is invasive, it is powerful, and it is designed to be spread to other churches. And it's not a good one. It allows for too much, and much new age was experimented with as a result
@alanalynn2023 Жыл бұрын
The oldest trickin the Book." You can be like God."
@Vikcam-fk3fp7 ай бұрын
I DO remember someone else saying this, yes!! Hmmm.
@paulmerritt24844 ай бұрын
We can walk in his power. We are not him and he also tells us he can not heal anyone as only God can. He is not saying what you think he is saying. These are words taken out of context. As usual with gossip and public shaming's that are unbiblical unless we are pharisees calling the Holy Spirt fake.
@waynewes94663 ай бұрын
Genesis 3:22 ESV - 22 Then the Lord God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever -
@INeedJesus4sure2 ай бұрын
Literally in the Book ;)
@timfinch7857 Жыл бұрын
As a pretty old guy who has been saved for almost 45 yrs and also weaned in the charismatic movement, I appreciate you guys bringing up KC and these kind of topics. I've seen so much abuse with spiritual gifts and false teachings that I almost don't even give them the time of day anymore. It blows my mind that KC still has a following. I threw away all of his tapes and books decades ago.
@dhvfdj1 Жыл бұрын
I used to follow him to and I would say that some of his stuff is benefited me. However there's a lot of stuff you have to weed through and vet out. His teachings a lot of wrong presumptions that's stem from the Word of Faith camp. It could be dangerous because it hardens the mind to develop an unhealthy level of cognitive dissonance.
@pblonrongracie Жыл бұрын
I had lots of word of faith books. I got rid of them all
@paulmerritt24844 ай бұрын
Some will be offended by the word of God. Some are willing to believe only so much. I used to be that one. I was 50 and all alone at home praying my heart out for my marriage and God put the Holy Spirit into me and I was "slain" or humbled to the floor. I was changed completely. My heart was replaced and I saw what forgiveness really was. It is in the heart and we have to be able to love the person like Jesus loves them! We can with the anointing. We need to humble ourselves and ask the Lord to help us obey Christs commandments and make us into who he made us to be. I had no idea we could walk in the anointing and that people would also fall under it just for being near me. I have had entire stores laughing like it was a Rodney Brown meeting. I had never seen a Rodney Brown meeting at the time. I had not been exposed to any of these teachers. I never saw these healings and miracles in my churches over almost 50 years but it was like something changed. I thought I must be the only one as I knew no one who had this happen to them, My anxiety was cured. My PTSD was cured. My marriage was uplifted and my wife and I became like honeymooners. This all happened in one day 3 years ago! The miracles have not stopped since. I think many misunderstand hat is being taught in what they call "word of faith" and it is the reason they gave it a name instead of calling it teaching from the Bible. I did not read my Bible enough. I started 3 years ago and have read it going on the 6th time already this year alone. I can not get enough of Gods word and there was so much to catch up on. I do see mistakes or errors in most ministries I did not see before. People who are used in these gifts can have a hard time grasping what they are supposed to do with them. I learned the gift only works when God calls us to act. It works when the gospel is being taught and the Lord is being worshipped and people believe. Look at what happened to the guy from teh Jesus revolution. He was rejected by the church over what the Lord was doing and he was rejected by society for being a Christian. The devil used people he trusted to discourage him. I see how the devil uses pastors to discourage people getting into ministry sometimes. Pastors I never expected could be used like that. At the same time we need to be careful never to exaggerate and humans can do it without thinking sometimes. We have to be truthful and we have to have our hearts right with the Lord. I have seen some get excited and prophecies about others but they did not see they were speaking curses saying they got a vision the person was going to get sick or get divorced and when we speak those things we can disturb people or tempt them to worry.
@truthseeker73able Жыл бұрын
In regards to Bethel how much blasphemy from the pulpet is too much? To allow someone to come into the church and tell people they are equal with God??!! That's a different gospel....it's putting damning beliefs into people's minds. To advise anyone to go to that church....is to throw there soul to the devil!!
@CaliforniaForever Жыл бұрын
This is such an ignorant comment. Have you ever been to Bethel?
@truthseeker73able Жыл бұрын
@@CaliforniaForever so do you agree that you're just like Jesus? Not subordinate to God? Because that is blasphemous....we were warned about being deceived by false teachers. Any church that would allow someone like that to speak from there pulpet needs to be avoided.
@sneaksyranger Жыл бұрын
Copeland is obvious, sure. However, you are rather gentle on Johnson. Johnson has stated that anyone who doesn't believe in guaranteed healing has a false gospel, so while you are gracious in considering Bethel folks as brothers, he has no such consideration.
@theouterplanet Жыл бұрын
And they said if you are a young Christian, maybe you shouldn’t go to Bethel. Well heck. A good church will be right for a new convert or a seasoned pro. Makes no sense. Reminds me of Dr Brown trying to sugar coat Sid Roth, etc.
@eugenenunn4900 Жыл бұрын
@@theouterplanet I agree brother.
@ciarankeating1120 Жыл бұрын
Yep, I’ve seen that statement.
@judahdawkins9635 Жыл бұрын
Johnson himself doesn’t say healing is guaranteed. However, he does say that those who attempt to witness without His power (a key component of His prescribed methods [charismata] for the breaking in of His Kingdom Come). Not having His power “on us” makes us not functionally witnesses in the way Jesus Himself clearly lays out at the end of Luke 24 and beginning of Acts 1.
@sneaksyranger Жыл бұрын
@@judahdawkins9635 Fair enough. The exact quote was "I refuse to develop a theology that allows for sickness.", and the belief that God would cause or allow sickness is a false gospel, per Johnson. The point stands, though, in that Johnson will write off large portions of the church as damned (he referenced the passage in Galatians 1 that does so), which is fine for Remnant Radio, it would seem.
@RealRadNek Жыл бұрын
@16:30, just wondering, if you cannot recommend a new Christian to go to a church like Bethel that is off on certain issues, why would you want to recommend a more mature Christian to go there, or for any Christian to go there if there is any chance they might be deceived? Just wondering.
@shelley6690 Жыл бұрын
Come on guys! You try to defend the indefensible- of course Bethel knew what KC says. And yet they still had him on their platform.
@Lilly2Gbtg Жыл бұрын
@Nick Penner They keep unrepentantly making mistakes though. 😟
@shelley6690 Жыл бұрын
@Nick Penner sadly Nick I don’t think there will be any repenting, but I hope I’m wrong
@freelove5459 Жыл бұрын
I literally on got to 5:44 and already disagree with you. ALLOWING A KNOWN HERATIC AND FLASE TEACHER ON YOUR STAGE TO PREACH TO YOUR FLOCK IS ABSOLUTELY GUILTY BY ASSOCIATION! Are you serious? Bill Johnson just subjected his entire congregation to whatever nonsense KC said. Not ok.
@doomerquiet1909 Жыл бұрын
@@freelove5459 in much agreement here
@sheRoyals Жыл бұрын
I have been struggling for years to understand Bill Johnson’s comments about Jesus as a man. His full love fest for Kenneth Copeland makes it very clear for me, they are birds of the same feather. I haven’t wanted to face it because I love many that are associated with Bethel & sister churches, but we just have to speak up in areas of diminishing Christ.
@huwlangford2738 Жыл бұрын
When I saw this I felt really really really concerned. A man that stood up and blew Covid away and just carries on without any questions is concerning. I don't understand the relationship. I decided recently to go back to basics as I Had become a tad lazy in my faith. I found this channel as well as Mike Winger and it has had a positive effect. Thank you
@paulmerritt24844 ай бұрын
You don't think God can heal covid?
@JiovanniCintron Жыл бұрын
Hi 👋 remnant radio I just wanna say that I’m 15 and have been listening to you guys and other prominent Christian KZbinrs for 1-2 years and I wanna say that there are probably many kids who listen to you , and that are grounded in doctrine and all the other things!
@dsjackson4949 Жыл бұрын
Decisions like this in ministry are usually motivated by THE LOVE OF MONEY 💰.
@arnoldhorvath2122 Жыл бұрын
Kenneth Copeland ,should have spoken from the holy writ ,the passion translation, which Bethel strongly endorses. Are you sure bethel's leaders are brothers.? Gentlemen, you can do better.
@Henriette-van-der-Ende Жыл бұрын
Yep. It was prophesied in 2012 to Bill Johnson that there will be a connection with Kenneth Copeland. Not surprised. Bethel teaches WOF an Prosperity for a long time now. A lot of people choose to look away. Although there are many casualties and people loosing there faith because of these teachings. Some people don't want to see.
@andrewbradice8916 Жыл бұрын
heresy.
@rachaelmcclelland8682 Жыл бұрын
Interesting the 2012 “prophesy”… wonder if Bill Johnson remembered that & forced it to happen when presented with opportunity to have KC this year… erroneously thinking he had to?? RR…Thank you guys for parsing out truth & lies so well with a gracious spirit
@laurens8623 Жыл бұрын
It doesn't mean that prophesy was incorrect. God knows and look what a great interview these guys got to do because of that.
@TinkerBell-bt6vu Жыл бұрын
Was it a "prophesy" to begin with? A lot of these so called "prophesies" look a lot like pagan fortunetelling or pagan "psychic" practices (which is not only forbidden but an abomination in God's eyes). When we think of prophesy we must look to God's Word to understand what it is. ALL prophesy points people to the Lord in some way. This can be done through calls to repentance (like a lot of the OT prophets did...they called people and nations to repentance and also toward the one true God!). Or they point people toward God, like the hundreds of prophesies about the coming Messiah! And there are others that are so specific that when they are fulfilled, there is no way it could have been prophesied so specifically unless it was God! (Eg) the prophesy about the city of Tyre!) And this will help both Christians and non-Christians see God's omniscience and omnipotence. And then there are prophesies which are pastoral - which give hope to those in the future to keep holding onto their faith through the most difficult times. A lot of these are found in the book of Revelation. There will be some very difficult times (the most difficult), especially for Christians, and God has foretold what will happen, so that Christians can know for certain, that God is in control, and that He is real, and that He is faithful and will keep His promises, so if Christians keep their faith through the darkest times (even unto death), that God will be with them! THAT is the purpose and the means of Biblical Prophesy! Not a prediction or fortune telling that "oh Kenneth copeland will be in cahoots with so and so in the future." That just seems more like a prediction. And most likely comes from an educated guess of someone seeing KC and Bethel church being so close in their styles that they will prob end up collaborating in the future at some point.
@CAMCAM136 Жыл бұрын
This is seriously shocking 🤯 as a Christian my mind is blown! How has this even passed as truth??
@danielbarker1450 Жыл бұрын
I just checked and yes, the book The Physics of Heaven is still available at Bethel's online bookstore. And yes, Bill Johnson was one of the contributors to the book. This utterly blows my mind as this book is WAY out in left field, encouraging believers to investigate New Age teachings and take back the truths therein for God's Kingdom along with more fatuous nonsense about quasi-quantum physics, new paradigms of communication (vibrations, sound, energy, light), etc. My journey to finding salvation in Jesus Christ took me first through the world of New Age teachings, Eastern Religions, the Occult, etc. Thankfully I quickly discerned that was not where I would find the answers I was looking for, and was wonderfully led to the Truth. That a church would put forward this kind of extremely dangerous (and in many ways perfectly bizarre) teachings reveals that something is very, very wrong there.
@aaronadams8166 Жыл бұрын
Thanks, I thought I was going crazy for a minute and I somehow dreamed that up
@ryanehlis4266 ай бұрын
I have that book, it’s a good book.
@danielbarker14506 ай бұрын
@@ryanehlis426 A good book? Not if walking in the Truth of the Gospel is vitally important to you.
@ryanehlis4266 ай бұрын
@@danielbarker1450 the book is about walking in the supernatural with God. The spirit realm is where God lives and moves, angels and the Holy Spirit. One time I was sleeping at a hotel and had an experience where a man of God came to me and lay hands on me and prayed for me and gave me a word, but it was in the spirit I knew he lived in the city I was visiting, I did not know him personally. In the new age it would be called Astro projection, in the Lord it was a prophet ministering to me in the spirit, his spirit came to me in my hotel, that’s a powerful kingdom gift. Lots of the new age practices are just a demonic counterfeit of Gods true spiritual gifts.
@nldj3445 ай бұрын
Vibrations, sound, energy….its all Jesus. Jesus SPOKE everything into existence did he not?? Doesn’t the word say the rocks cry out?? Everything in this world has a frequency which is from the lord bc he spoke into being….doesn’t anyone understand it’s ALL JESUS, Satan just took it and twisted so our brains tend to think about new age when we should be thinking Jesus centered
@Henriette-van-der-Ende Жыл бұрын
Bethel still has books like Physics of Heaven, Enneagram, Passion 'Translation', in their online shop. 23-2-2023
@dandugo202010 ай бұрын
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the passion translation.
@kevink99389 ай бұрын
@@dandugo2020 you’re close but no. EVERYthing about TPT is wrong
@dandugo20209 ай бұрын
@@kevink9938 without relying on Michael winger name a bible verse and tell me why linguistically that it is wrong in the TPT.
@suzanneyoung62738 ай бұрын
@@kevink9938I have the Passion Translation in Psalms and Proverbs. The Holy Spirit asks me to read from it at times.
@alexandralove34068 ай бұрын
@@suzanneyoung6273listen to Mike winger’s examinations of it. It’s not a translation.
@evanmatthew95128 ай бұрын
This is just as relevant today as it was a year ago when ya'll released this. Maybe even more relevant. I watched a friend pray after their child had died to come back to life like Lazarus did. Bethel leads people down that path. The path that says we can pray away anything and manifest anything if we pray hard enough. I believe in miracles, it's a miracle I am still alive but the emotional drama that Bethel cultivates is crazy. I could go on but I end with this. Father forgive me where I fail you, forgive me where I get it wrong, forgive these teachers who teach wrong. Purify me and them so that we become more like you every second of every day.
@marisamartin36648 ай бұрын
It is entirely Biblical to pray for your dead child, in both Testaments- look it up. Anyone attacking someone who did that, is probably envious of their bold faith and is also cowardly.
@heidibrown9977 ай бұрын
I believe I understand what you are saying, how false teaching and has had a detrimental effect on you. But if my child dies I would pray for the child to come alive now. I would be like the Shunamite woman. Years ago I was under teaching that said all the work of Holy Spirit working miracles has ceased. KC has taught falsely God's Word and it's now time for him to repent. God help this man and others like him to repent.
@stevenpusateri5634 Жыл бұрын
Remember WE ALL. see in part and know in part. God is Glorified
@lmorter7867 Жыл бұрын
I didn't realize how far off course from the truth that Copeland is. When he said our spirit died on the cross I had to do a double take. Our flesh is crucified with Christ not our spirit. If he doesn't even understand that simple truth I can see how he has gotten so deep into the weeds of lies and deception.
@LauralovesJesus1 Жыл бұрын
So many comments, so I don’t know if anyone has said this, but isn’t KC using the same lie that the serpent told Eve in the garden? KC is saying that you ARE Jesus, and Satan lied to Eve that she will become like God?
@lilstardust777 Жыл бұрын
Christ in us is the hope of glory. We are not THE Christ, we are His body. So many folks have opinions and using human reasoning instead of eating the word!! You're in danger of being deceived!!
@kevink99389 ай бұрын
the apple doesn’t fall far from eve’s hand before being gobbled up by kenny copeland 😢
@chriscross5188 Жыл бұрын
5:33 "they do a good job by training for the prophetic" ??? Please please please watch Mike Winger's video on The physics of Heaven from the 30th of January!
@Philagape Жыл бұрын
The Physics of Heaven is far more than a "concern"; it's another religion. It is not biblical Christianity. And no matter whether it's still in their bookstore, it has Bill Johnson's and Kris Vallotton's names on it. They believe the abominations of that book. Books like that make doctrinal statements worthless. One of the things that book claims is that faith is a force that God used to create, and therefore we can use the same force to speak things into existence just like God did. That's one of the heresies you called out Copeland for. It's consistent with the religion of the serpent: "you will be like God." It's consistent with Copeland's deification of man. You can add this to his list: "You're all God. You don't have a God living in you; you are one! ... When I read in the Bible where God tells Moses, 'I AM,' I say, 'Yah, I am too!'" So it's not just guilt by association; they're in the same doctrinal camp. And even if it were merely association, that in itself is something to be guilty of. The Bible commands us to avoid false teachers (Romans 16:17, 2 John 10); therefore it's not just guilt BY association, it's guilt OF association. And we're not talking a podcast interview or appearing at the same conference; Bill Johnson heartily, glowingly welcomed an arch-heretic into his pulpit. That is implicit affirmation of Copeland's heresies. Until he openly repudiates them, he's responsible for exposing his flock to them, just as if he had preached them himself.
@pymyriad2 ай бұрын
September 2015 KC You said you see some truth… Jesus made the Way for us to partake of His Divine Nature and yes we are subordinate to Jesus
@matthewthomas3580 Жыл бұрын
While on the topic of Copeland, would love to hear yalls thoughts on Jesse Duplantis recent Christmas Eve sermon where he in my opinion completely butchered Isaiah 9:6 which is so clearly referring to our beloved Savior. It reminds me a lot of Copelands I Am Too message
@thewestwoodhome Жыл бұрын
I think y’all missed the mark on this one sorry 😞
@mariaschinella8973 Жыл бұрын
How so?
@anthonymontoya8029 Жыл бұрын
Stop Compromising the Word , that's all you guys do . Repent!!!! . Read 3 John 1: 10
@palabraviva5840 Жыл бұрын
Good job guys!!! Glad someone is calling him out and not with a mean spirit…. I recall Todd White calling him one of his spiritual fathers, which is really worrying… I wonder if he still thinks that or even knows what KC believes and teaches
@TheDeliveranceDelusion10 ай бұрын
Joshua Lewis said, “They are taking ownership of areas of error.” Perhaps when it is inconsequential to do so. Last night I had an hour-long conversation with a couple that lost their daughter to Bethel Sozo over a decade ago when she experienced false recovered memories during a session. A few years ago, I had a similar conversation with a couple from Australia. They lost their daughter the same way to Bethel Sozo. I lost a family member there also. Last month, I interviewed a man that has spoken to hundreds with similar experiences. Who cares about grave-soaking and whether they have corrected it? These families want their children back but reluctant to complain publicly. Most of these false recovered memories result in accusations of sexual abuse. Many will assume anyone that goes public guilty, and it will probably push their lost children farther away. It’s a lose lose therefore remains hidden. When is Bill Johnson going to “correct” this ongoing nightmare? I have documented proof he is aware of this problem. We are talking hundreds of families torn apart. How many is enough?
@TheDeliveranceDelusion8 ай бұрын
So very sorry to hear that.@@user-fe4pm7tm4n
@ciarankeating1120 Жыл бұрын
Why did you guys not address the false teaching of the prosperity gospel? How could you not completely caution someone from going to the church to the extent of saying don’t go? I don’t understand that. In addition, when Bill discusses Jesus being man dependent on God. He makes the equation that we can be exactly like him as people filled with the same spirit dependent on God. I’ve heard this argument in the same way that we will do greater things than Jesus as we can be like him being filled with the same spirit. Is this not wrong?
@markdromswy3931 Жыл бұрын
RR and others - as long as you have an orthodox statement of faith - anything else you say or do will be excused.
@brigittedrew5478 Жыл бұрын
@Always Thinking maybe they should practice now saying 'but Lord, Lord I did this and that in your name.' and we all know where it goes from there...
@simeoncharles5807 Жыл бұрын
I understand the effort to love brothers and sisters in Christ with whom we disagree. It’s something we need to do more. But to call someone a brother who regularly supports heresy (in word service, denying it but not changing anything), how do you justify this? Based solely on his introduction before Copeland spoke, Bill Johnson clearly knows who Kenneth Copeland is and what he teaches. He has want to work with him for over a decade, at least. The fact that you would still recommend that some people attend Bethel, despite their disregard for scriptural teaching regarding tongues, prophecy, and more (for example, their support of Todd Bentley as, in Bill Johnson’s words, “something greater than Moses,” using a wizard’s staff to “end racism”) is very concerning. I’m not going to stop watching you guys, you’re doing good work; but I think y’all really missed the mark with this one.
@Samy-sx6kn Жыл бұрын
Yes they missed the mark. Promoting New Age is not a minor problem. And “you understood me wrong “ is not true repentance. And the songs of bethel are not almost all orthodox. They are promoting word of faith, speaking things in existence like god etc. Watch Mike winger if you want to know what’s up with bethel.
@NSaint68 Жыл бұрын
So I guess anyone under the charismatic banner gets a pass?
@Iffmeister Жыл бұрын
They called Copeland a heretic. That's not a pass
@matthewthomas3580 Жыл бұрын
Thank you Guys. You really showed such Grace referring to Copeland. Great discussion. Some things that he has said over the years are really concerning such as when he said when he looks at the places in the Bible where it says I Am, He just says I Am too. He is basically there calling himself a God which is very disturbing.
@7matt5 Жыл бұрын
What do you think Christian means?
@lilstardust777 Жыл бұрын
Be ye imitators of God as dearly beloved children. These are the one who walk in the spirit and do the greater works. We are not God, but He lives in us. We don't do things in our strength but by His spirit. KC does not teach false doctrine. Beware of slanderers. The pharisees of today will and are persecuting the true remnant.
@susanelisd5584 Жыл бұрын
You keep excusing Bethel because they explain their 'mistakes'. How many pastors have the same track record of constantly having to provide clarification? Sheep need food properly prepared, not food that regularly chokes them.
@geekwithabible4477 Жыл бұрын
Have they ever discussed Joyce Meyer? I’m curious if they would put her more on the Bethel side or the Copeland side of concerns.
@Wesley.Grapes Жыл бұрын
This is just my opinion, but I am surprised by your take on Bethel. I do appreciate people reserving judgment and being slow to judge, especially to other belivers. However, I had a true conversion and the power of Christ lifted me from the grave and misery of sin. I believe in the true a pure experience, and power that is in the ministry of the Holy Spirit. But as soon as I became a Christian, I was thrust into the world of the charasmatic. I was part of an organization who's guest speakers were these people and their beliefs. I was fully immersed in this for a number of years. And now, after witnessing countless people turn against Christ and the faith from this camp, and I myself went through a turmoul with this, I can no longer even entertain the thought that these movements are "brothers". I absolutely believe true Christians reside in these churches but their teachings ultimately undermine the essence of faith..and to me that is the key to all of it. They distort faith, which actually leaves you desperate. Their teaching on faith are so very skewed and backward to the faith the Bible portrays. Also, they teach you to heavily rely in the way you feel, and this is just a tragic error that shipwrecks so many people. Additionally, how many times must an organization be called out for near heresy and continue in such a way? You guys say that there is some agreement there, but of course there is, there has to be in order for the more dangerous teachings to undermine the truth. They do have fantastic music and many of their songs are christ centered, but I challenge myself to forget the songs for a time and focus in the Bible and fellowship with truth. I can say now, that the language and tone of truth seem to me so opposed to what I have years in betgak that I can no longer tolerate their teachings. And as for copeland, what needs to be said. The man is wicked and it isn't even ambiguous, its plain to see. It seems to me that people like Kenneth are no accident, I doubt repentance is even fit for their state. They seem to be a purposeful rebellion to Gid and truth, a truly deep level of deception and evil. Kenneth has been deceiving and stealing money from the poor for a lot of years. Promising and increase in their lives while living in mansion and luxury hotels...
@mosart70258 ай бұрын
Bless you for taking the time to clearly spell out the truth about these men and organizations. Yes I agree that at times Copeland looks totally demonic! (and acts).
@marisamartin36648 ай бұрын
Are you aware Baptists and Menonites, and Methodists and Catholics also turn against God or fall away? This is no proof that they off theologically.
@Elliott05 Жыл бұрын
Bethel church is no different in their doctrine than Copeland. How is there even a question over this?
@katieisk Жыл бұрын
This is exactly my thought. It sounded like they were trying to give Bethel some brownie points in the begining, when Bethel's entire theology isn't even rooted in scripture.
@AllThingsArePossible Жыл бұрын
Their doctrine IS different
@CaliforniaForever Жыл бұрын
What?!?!
@tony.biondi Жыл бұрын
Is it newfound? Isn't this the return visit? Johnson was a guest speaker at Southwest Believers' Convention 2020. Check out 'Breaking Bethel'
@markdromswy3931 Жыл бұрын
Nothing new...birds of a feather, both wolves.
@tony.biondi Жыл бұрын
@@markdromswy3931 yes, and they cannot use the 'sharing a platform' excuse either here or in 2020.
@anthonya2700 Жыл бұрын
I really like this channel and appreciate the videos you guys do, But to suggest that the list of statements you rambled off regarding Bethel are Merely things they need to clean up?? I'm sorry but saying Jesus came as a man. That's a different Jesus That's completely heretical. Christian Terrell cards? Am I hearing this correctly....bro, I don't care what someone puts in their statement of faith I judge the fruit. You guys are wise and should know better
@justmorenoise Жыл бұрын
It’s good you are trying to talk about this stuff. The lack of exposure and the “playing down” “overlooking” this stuff has led to many many people leaving the charismatic movement. Every year for the last 10years I continue to see and hear of more and more families reluctantly leaving their local charismatic ministries (they been in long term) and becoming fully committed to more traditional or liturgical churches. 😢
@justmorenoise Жыл бұрын
And good for them. It’s sad but they are still strong believers and are now committed to a different kind of Christianity then to what we have seen in the charismatic movement. They still have their Bible study they still worship and they still pray for the sick, they arn’t living in sin they are powering in the Lord BUT they have thrown out word of faith stuff, leadership and prophecy gifts kingdom etc. it’s quite a shift culturally. Because many of the Pentecostal or charismatic churches are still growing but huge turn over going on. Not sure what that is or how it is sustainable
@duncescotus2342 Жыл бұрын
Here's the thing though. Are they leaving by the front door (backward) or going forward into the holy of holies? Pray on that one.
@khgblast203 Жыл бұрын
The Copelands have a history of "God explaining Scripture to them personally" First heard it in 1983/4. Immediately knew to stay away from their rubbish.
@CaliforniaForever Жыл бұрын
Been to Bethel a bunch of times. There is nothing heretical in their statement of faith or what happens at services. They would rather err on the side of freedom not control. Who knows what's in their hearts, or anyone else's heart for that matter. Bethel is a blessing. I'm glad they correct their errors.
@dorenerussell85747 ай бұрын
Exactly
@investfluent4143 Жыл бұрын
I wouldn't say that Bethel has a better reputation that Kenneth Copeland. I generally put them in the same category.
@nildameers3772 Жыл бұрын
What category is that? One of prayer, grace , unity and non divisiveness?
@ashleycarpenter9924 Жыл бұрын
Yes, great interview! Let's edify, build up, encourage. Iron sharpens iron. We are to help each other, correct each other and pick our brothers and sisters up. Everything gets so misconstrued and misinterpreted. We are to make disciples of Christ 🙏 in Christ...
@annairwin8147 Жыл бұрын
WE will be like Christ at the judgement…..not before that in our human form…every Christian should know that
@Only1Christ Жыл бұрын
Hope the hosts see this. Did Kris Valloton not also say we are like God? Did he repent or was publically addressed? You use the false prophecies of Copeland, but what about Bethel ending racism with LOTR routine, Bethel endorsing (as Apostles) Todd Bentley? We still say.... Bethel soft balls being thrown. Equal measures brothers, equal weights and measures.
@Iffmeister Жыл бұрын
@@TransHumanisms i think they simply don't know tbh
@BethanyNZ Жыл бұрын
Michael when you said how you love how Bethel teaches prophesy? In one of their ways they teach their students how to prophesy is it to always be positive in their prophecies. Is it called prophecy uno? A lot of their tactics in teaching prophecy- is way to loosey goosey and not biblical. I’m not one for throwing the baby out with the bath water and cancelling complete churches as saying they’re all heretics. But yea, I wouldn’t agree with your statement on praising how they operate in the gifts. They dive into very muddy waters that can be dangerous to try stir up signs and wonders. God can still use Bethel church totally, they preach the gospel- which is awesome!
@josephalbatross5961 Жыл бұрын
Guardrails on public prophesy is wise for young believers first learning. In fact, when RR did their prophecies for 2020 video, they both shared that their churches do something similar to protect the giver and the receiver. When first learning to exercise the Gift of prophecy, it's biblical to steer away from rebuke and to steer toward exhortation.
@josephalbatross5961 Жыл бұрын
I was taught not to prophesy weddings, deaths, or babies haha
@Myrdden71 Жыл бұрын
Copeland claims he is equal with God. Good Lord, what blasphemy! Philippians 2 - "Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped," For Bethel to open their flock to a wolf in sheep's clothing is unconscionable. It's like the church at Ephesus inviting Simon Magus to speak.
@virginiamcguire5892 Жыл бұрын
Kenneth Copeland is one scary dude.
@toddpierson7989 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for touching on the frequency of the errors / need for clarifications, Josh. That's what's concerning to me. Trying to have grace!
@appleyes411 Жыл бұрын
I think my plant just fell over after hearing Kenneth Copeland. I need to pray for it now to survive again.
@simi6152 Жыл бұрын
I 6 it's amazing that you're bringing the people of God together no matter the denomination.
@jeffengstrom8657 Жыл бұрын
You guys criticize the very stuff you promote.
@jtremax Жыл бұрын
Bethels good will never cover the bad…you two act like because a little truth and sincerity is acceptable…set the bar higher boys…your part of the cover up…
@RandomBoxingGuy9 ай бұрын
“You are EXACTLY like Jesus”…🤦♂️ Where does he get this stuff…?!? If you church endorses this(as Bethel does) … PLEASE gather the elders and correct the leaders!
@isaiasherrero7889 Жыл бұрын
I know that they removed the book "physics from heaven" from their bookstore, I just wish they would adress it publicly just in case because I know that a lot of people bought that book.
@rinnswimmer Жыл бұрын
Honestly the thing I hated the most was Kenneth Copeland’s ridiculing, holier-than-thou attitude when he talked about those who have pointed out his teachings as wrong.
@victoriashipman3525 Жыл бұрын
Guilty by association here is actually a biblical concept- 1 cor 5- "But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people. 12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
@Bredvig32 Жыл бұрын
Important fact: Discerning spirits is part of Gift of the Spirits, just like being prophetic, healing the sick etc. Sadly it's not really talked about.
@richardm23 Жыл бұрын
15:00 you would encourage new believers not to watch Bethel and mature believers to watch with extreme caution???? But you you can’t bring yourself to like Paul exhorted us to “mark and avoid (Rom 16:17)?” What would it take for y’all to ask your audience to “mark and avoid?” Better yet do you believe there is even such a thing as false teaching or false teachers?
@alexvolosin3562 Жыл бұрын
If Bill Johnson is a pastor then he must be concerned for the safety of his congregation. Both physically and spiritually. Inviting Copland on stage is equivalent to inviting a wolf into a sheep fold. It seems like Johnson doesn’t think that Copland is a dangerous heretic, which is very problematic and puts a huge question mark on the whole bethel movement.
@matthewellis9889 Жыл бұрын
Wolves often run in packs 🤷♂️
@Mary-1000 Жыл бұрын
It would be interesting to hear some thoughts on Kathryn Krick. She's absolutely part of the NAR movement. I almost got sucked into her "revival" movement but thank God ...literally.... my eyes were opened. I'm very concerned for her followers as they seem to look up to her as Jesus himself.
@oysterhead5150 Жыл бұрын
I've heard of her, she's a little crazy to!
@christineperera23937 ай бұрын
I am watching this today from UK. Josh, I originally hail from Sri Lanka tho living in UK for over 40 years! I am so saddened that their forebears who brought Christianity to our pagan lands (Hindu, Buddhist etc) have today become like this. They need teachers/preachers from the East, Africa and other nations who will call this teaching pure heresy! You must not be afraid of exposing them as the listening public may have no knowledge of Jesus nor the grace of God. Thank God for old time preachers like Spurgeon, Dr Martyn Lloyd-Jones and a few others who are no more on this earth but I am so grateful that on KZbin I can listen to their sermons and grow in my Christian faith. I am 73 yrs old now and can talk to you like I would my sons - so don’t be offended and keep going teaching the Truth.
@rommym7528 Жыл бұрын
Sadly, with Bethel (and mind you I am one who used to support them and KC) they are continually falling into wrong theology and practice. When we continue to fall into wrong unbiblical practices it is clear we are running on fleshly interpretation and intuition instead of being led of the Spirit of God and rightly dividing the word of God. I believe in the power of God and the gifts of the Spirit; but when we continue to gravitate toward kooky ideology and new age ideal that is a real red flag! Prayers for all of them; but will not even consider their teachings or instruction any longer. No, young believers should not go to Bethel or KC ministries.
@christinezaslavsky647 Жыл бұрын
Why do these guys always refer to “believe in the gifts” and not to the Baptism of the Holy Spirit? (Receive the Holy Spirit, being filled with the Holy Spirit)? Hopefully I will find an episode on this. But anyway, I was so glad to hear their clear analysis of this “little gods” idea that I did not EVER hear taught at RHEMA or any other WOF ministry in 5 years living in Tulsa, OK. I feel like the evangelical critics paint ALL word of faith teachers / believers as embracing that crazy idea. It causes me to wonder what else they get wrong about Pentecostal believers. On the subject of the snake lifted up as a symbol of Jesus carrying our sin, I felt that Rountree should have explained it more thoroughly, because even if Copeland has used the wrong terminology, calling sin and judgement “Satan” etc., it is an important type of Calvary, and completely linked to Jesus’ prayers in the Garden. Repeatedly over the years I hear sermons misunderstanding Jesus’ experience described in Gethsemane. I would like to hear a show on this subject by The Remnant.
@sidecar_mama Жыл бұрын
This video gives a naive and inappropriate kind of grace to the Bill Johnson and Bethel, I feel like the whole thing was a fumble. An entity or person acknowledging that the supernatural exists ought to be a neutral observation, not a good one. This video also uses all sorts of false equivalencies to make its point. Inviting Kenneth Copeland to speak at YOUR church because God told you to is not the same thing as sharing a stage with someone you disagree with. One of the pastors grave soaking and then apologizing isn't an oopsie daisy, that's some serious looking the other way about the Bible's teachings on witchcraft. Pastoral disqualification would be discussed at any reasonable church. How could that even happen in the first place? That's a different Jesus and a different Bible, NOT "believing in the gifts." Also, just because an entity has orthodox Christianity in their teachings doesn’t mean essential elements haven’t been omitted or damning things added. Evaluating a pastor/teacher based on their theology is one-dimensional, and the hosts of this channel practice discernment almost exclusively on this dimension. Listen to how many times the hosts reference orthodox Christianity in this video. Michael Rowntree repeatedly says he doesn’t want to call out false teachers - well then let other people or channels do the video. It hurts people to throw a poorly done yellow flag when several red ones are deserved. Learn what subtle undermining from wolves looks like in the church. It’s clumsy and delayed to rely on blatant ill-intent or explicit anti-biblical theology before calling something dangerous. Heresy is not confined to unorthodox words. Deceptive teachers are themselves deceived and lead others into deception-2 Tim 3:13, Matt 15:14. I think questions that reveal holy patterns in the teaching are more helpful to ask: • Does this pastor/teacher/church [entity] display an attitude of reverence, humility, and fear toward God and His written word? • Do they ever encourage and train their congregation to watch for false teachers/teachings? • Is there a pattern of affirming the Bible’s written word OVER observations and discussions that aren’t explicitly in the Bible? • Is the integrity of scripture regularly preserved? • Is God Himself (and His word) regularly given thematic priority, or something else? • Are certain topics in scripture regularly elevated or neglected over other ones? • Is the teaching more frequently man-centric or God-centric? • Is God Himself placed on equal footing with how God affects the individual’s quality of life? • Are people treated as fundamentally damaged apart from Christ, or is it more along the lines of “needing therapy?” (If they do not understand that people are fatally unfixable, they don’t grasp the essence of the gospel.) Sure, they’re broader questions with fewer gotchas-but these kinds of discussions would help train people to spot danger way before crisis points of theology or practice. Any teacher or pastor worth their weight in gold should be nailing most of these, and if several of these signs are missing it encourages maturity to point it out and suggest that the entity may not grasp the essence of walking with God. Noticing danger or ungodliness early on in a conversation is a weak point of this channel. If the entity displays good intent towards people, has orthodox theology, and/or misrepresents God only through omission of perceived unpleasant attributes, the hosts don’t seem to notice… which isn’t sinful, but it certainly is crude and not attuned to subtlety. Look at 1 Timothy-the qualifications for pastors go way beyond orthodox theology. How far do we have to lower our standards for pastors these days to give them a passing grade? Kenneth Copeland promotion plus all the new age garbage Bethel has been peddling for years is damning. There’s no benefit of the doubt for this kind of pattern. Bethel is a hellhole at the core and Bill Johnson is a blind guide leading the blind. Do your homework.
@barryscroggins8450 Жыл бұрын
As a strategy, it's a good play if you are in the goat farming game to not defend your errors but to issue obfuscating confessions whilst still selling the books and earning click income from the videos and not giving the retraction/confession/correction equal exposure in comparison to the original error/mis-speaking/mis-communication. It's a great way to just keep the misinformation machine rolling while throwing enough humble pie around to placate those who would endeavor to find the best while being willfully blind to the general unreliable nature of the institution. Too much poop in the brownie, for sure.
@brigittedrew5478 Жыл бұрын
Well said sir! To be willfully blind in this kind of spiritual warfare is dangerous, to say the least. God help us...
@joelsmith7868 Жыл бұрын
Big difference between "sharing the stage" and giving the pulpit over to someone. While I agree fundamentally with Bethal I have to question direction when Bill Johnson doesn't protect the pulpit.
@righteousradio29 күн бұрын
Can anyone provide a link to the show he talked about at the 12min mark "Physics of Heaven"? Thank you
@victorsturdivant47318 ай бұрын
You have commercialized the Christianity. Congrats. God bless you.
@NickTarterOKC Жыл бұрын
Having a guy preach from your pulpit really feels like an endorsement and I have a major problem with them having Copeland there. I think Bethel does some good things and they do some questionable things. This one was super suspect. I do have respect for Bill Johnson even though I don't agree with him on everything. I wish they would tighten things up at their church and be more careful about what they are allowing in and around them.
@slatermitchell74245 ай бұрын
I struggle with not understanding why these Men of God who have risen to the top haven’t been able to discern the error in the others they associate themselves with, as is being exposed with the Mike Bickle scandal.
@paulmerritt24844 ай бұрын
He is not calling human beings demons. We all know this as Christians that secular people manifest demons in the presence of the Holy Spirit form time to time. He had this happen on a plane and a man started punching his wife. This was a dishonest setup twisting his words to mean something he was not saying. He had the right to say don't ever say that lie again. He was rebuking the devil in that reporter.
@tobiasfoppen2658 Жыл бұрын
Sorry but wouldn't go to Bethel at all for new or older believer alike. Too much confusion and issues.
@guitardweeb Жыл бұрын
Can we all agree that the C19 remix was 🔥 at least? 😆
@S_F_D_ Жыл бұрын
😂 Yes!!!
@Parallelfifthsblog Жыл бұрын
😂😂😂😂😂😂
@LifeOnHoth Жыл бұрын
Oh YES! But still - Burn that thing! 😂😂
@savedbyGrace1234 Жыл бұрын
Lol 😂
@eugenenunn4900 Жыл бұрын
😂😂😂😂
@janszoke3 ай бұрын
I appreciate you doing these discernment videos. I need them. I am currently untangling myself from these false teachings. I no longer follow Bethel’s teachings. A lot of it sounds good and right, but is mixed with wrong doctrine which is dangerous for everyone. Bethel knew what they were getting with Kenneth Copeland-especially Kris Valloton who sings his praises.
@roseroyaltyy Жыл бұрын
Hey guys. My church (Pentecostal) has a lot of older people/pastors who still like Kenneth Copeland. I know they don’t hold heretical views but they don’t seem to realise how bad his teaching is :( it’s weird because I know they love the Lord and they have helped me in my walk
@alexandralove34068 ай бұрын
I’ve heard some older people say they like him too. I think they’re from a generation where you just trust blindly. You trust your doctor without question, the news, and the televangelist. I think they believe that televangelists wouldn’t be on TV if they weren’t telling the truth. So I just think those older folks are listening with a trusting, not a discerning ear.
@roseroyaltyy8 ай бұрын
@@alexandralove3406 Yes you're right I think. Some of them will only listen to Kenneth Copeland and other select WoF teachers. They believe the 'faith message' only and won't listen to anything outside the faith message. Even though they love the Lord, I can see little bits of error come through in the theology.
@sharoncrawford71927 ай бұрын
Teaching that we are God is New Age teaching! The Bible warned us that in the last days there would be many false teachers! I think we are there.❤❤❤❤
@alisiamondragon3013 Жыл бұрын
This is very concerning. I personally grew up hearing only good things about him and some of his teachings of faith, but this has tarnished my opinion of him. I’m feel like Kenneth Hagin, whom Copeland mentioned , if alive today, would rebuke him about this blatant heresy. I pray for him and his ministry that he will repent of this and address it corporately
@fayebradford31977 ай бұрын
A child is not equal to his father. Man is not equal to God. If the believer has Christ living on the inside that is where the equality is in Christ only.
@davidwireback86215 ай бұрын
I used to go to sister church with Bethel. In Vacaville California. The Mission. Bill and Chris and others have come down and spoken many times at our church. I can tell you I never picked up on anything that they taught that I didn't feel like my spirit would disagree with. Kim Walker Smith came down as part of the youth group many years ago. and I could see the anointing on her and I knew that she was going to do great things for the Lord which we are seeing in her ministry. I personally feel it was mistake to bring kind of Copeland to the church at Bethel. I don't know when they brought him up here was it before the obnoxious and outrageous rebukes that Copeland made towards Covid. One thing I know about Bethel and Mike Roundtree does mention it here that they are pursuing the supernatural. They allow room and let me repeat this they allow room for mistakes. So many Christians in other denominations you can't make mistakes.
@nosteen.4988 Жыл бұрын
When Rowntree calls a spade a spade. It's a spade.
@oldmovieman7550 Жыл бұрын
It is absurd to say “new believers should stay clear of these guys” while also saying that nature believers can benefit. No. Bethel is a dangerous false church and the excuses made to explain away their blatant heresy is quite disturbing.
@RandomBoxingGuy9 ай бұрын
Seems like an entire video basically saying, “Bethel has a lot of questionable teachings and practices… but we won’t outright say they’re wrong”… Very concerning to me. If they have that many questionable teachings/practices… and you go so far as to say “I wouldn’t recommend them to a new believer”… Then why endorse them at all. There are a PLETHORA of solid churches (charismatic and non-charismatic) without all these questionable teachings/practices, so why recommend Bethel to ANYBODY??? ESPECIALLY, if they invite/endorse KC… who is known by nearly all to be a fraud and heretic. No Church is perfect, but there are plenty of much more Biblically sound than Bethel.
@lootbird5 ай бұрын
Not equal authority! He didn’t have to answer to him. That’s what free will is. I think you can’t wrap your head around his idea.
@julielindholme95847 ай бұрын
Looking forward to God dealing with the Church all over the world on all levels including platforms on KZbin and the like! God wants the body of Christ unified! Looks like mankind can do absolutely nothing! As hard as it will be to watch and how persecuted we will be cause of those not in the Lord. Here we go!
@shannonpritchard6642 Жыл бұрын
I can’t believe you think they do a good job at teaching the prophetic. They literally tell students to say whatever comes to their mind and not to worry if they get it wrong, it’s not a big deal. This form of practicing the prophetic is demonstrated nowhere in scripture. It’s an extremely big deal if you say something in the name of God, which he has not said.
@laraderksen42976 ай бұрын
They teach students to practice stepping out in the prophetic and to have a growth mindset where mistakes are not the end of the world and we all learn from our mistakes (vs being paralyzed by fear over getting something wrong). They teach that in the new covenant all prophecy needs to be weighed and tested by believers.
@zachindes6 ай бұрын
To echo what people have said, if we need to say “beware” to a new Christian of going to Bethel then I think that’s a problem. Definitely brothers and sisters but it’s concerning
@shyloh19805 ай бұрын
Jesus came to EARTH as a man, inorder for man to look upon God and Not die. Jesus showed man how man is to live after the Holy Spirit came upon Man. Man can speak to the mountains with Authority, like Jesus did.
@davidschefter4160 Жыл бұрын
He always talks about his self. He has shipwrecked many peoples faith.
@dianndier32026 ай бұрын
Even in our own churches sometimes people get carried away on some doctrine that our leadership does not support. It can harm the reputation of the fellowship.
@janice1493 Жыл бұрын
Yes he did and to think that BJ doesn't know what KC believes or is teachings is unbelievable .
@stephenparrish7058 Жыл бұрын
Why are they constantly having to correct people that are leaders at Bethal? The pastor has to be held accountable at some point.
@davidwireback86215 ай бұрын
I must add something about this whole Christian tarot card issue. I've read the statement from Bethel. I know Bill personally believes that the Holy Spirit can have power over new age practices. He actually once stood behind a tent of a fortuneteller and rebuke the spirit of divination. he did this every day until she packed up and left. These tarot cards were not being read or produced by anybody at Bethel. It happened to be that the son of of those who put together these cards went to Bethel and was on staff there. What they did was they would go to new festivals and it was set up shop there with Holy Ghost readings they had cards with scriptures on them. A picture of one side and a scripture on the other side. And they would show these to people and as they did they would pray asking the Holy Spirit to give them a word of knowledge something about them that would bring them to Christ. All Bethel and as I heard from many other Christians going back to my 50 years as a Christian that we confronted TM people with meditating on Jesus instead that eastern religions and new ages are stealing from the church and we need to take back the truth that God will speak to us through meditation and the word. Not accepting new age stuff
@DW-yq4zn Жыл бұрын
If Bethel were taking ownership of errors they would kick Vallotton to the curb.
@ericedwards8902 Жыл бұрын
If someone asks me to go to church with them, and I have to say "It depends on who's asking and who's speaking"...that's not a church i need to go to. I understand that RR doesn't want to cast people out of the kingdom, but why would you accept and eat a brownie with any poop in it? Especially when you know it's one of the ingredients? That makes you either stupid or a lover of sweetened poop!