Kerbal Space Program 2 - A Shameful Situation As Game In Limbo

[@GuillRickard]

Selling an early access game with no intention of even trying to finish it should 100% be illegal.

[@m1abrams1776]

im pretty sure it is illegal in the EU with the biggest example being squadron 42 which they had to stop selling a year ago because it had no release date

[@moonasha]

well it's certainly against Valve's EA rules.

[@rsdworker]

@@moonasha yeah also other game i think a starship - i couldn't remember name but by different company which put game development on hold but yeahj Valve needs address those issues for example removing early access from companies who abuse them or mislead or cause any issues with customer side if they going sue them i would sue take 2 because they failed to be there for early access because radio silence that's reason Valve needs change the way of working of steam early access for example be strict and open and hosent and make everyone involved

[@drunkenhobo8020]

At that price too. I bought the original for about £11 as I knew it would be a risk. I did not buy the sequel at £50 as I knew it would be a risk.

[@pierrotA]

The problem is that some game stay in early access for years without updates and still end-up good. It's almost impossible to prove that the studio really do not have the intention to continu it, so it would be really hard to apply the law here. Maybe they take a pause on the dev to finish an other game, which would be moraly questionable but not illegal. If course we know it's not the case, but how could you prove it without using illegaly aquired documents ?

[@zahreel3103]

On sale with no devs. Talk about trying to shit on gamers and squeeze them for every cent they're worth. But you know what? It's our fault. Keep buying GTA and NBA2k and all other Take2 games. Throw them money,. make them rich, empower them, so they'll continue to engage in corporate bullshit.

[@monkeydud6437]

Worst part is. It's the SUMMER sale and is ONLY 20% off 🙄 feels like a slap in the face to the players and every dev involved imo

[@nitehawk86]

Yep, the fact that they are willing to ask for money for this means nobody should ever trust this company again.

[@almightyIrie]

I abandoned NBA2K years ago. It's actually a good basketball game, but 2K's lack of interest in the PC community is just too blatant. They never do anything regarding all these cheaters [i recorded unmistakable proof of tons of cheaters back then, reported them including their steam profiles etc --> 0 bans and no anti-cheat to this day] and afaik the current NBA2K is still on last gen when compared to console versions? But do you know what the worst thing is? I never realized Take2 had the rights to KSP2 until they shut down the dev team.. If i had known, i might've been staying away and not getting convinced by ppl like Shadowzone that "For Science! finally made KSP worth it", which made me purchase the game. F 2K, and F those streamers/tubers now acting like they never sold us on KSP2! PS: Mr Ant is not one of those streamers/tubers. I come here and raise my criticism once in a while, so i wanna make clear that he is not included in my little rant.

[@zahreel3103]

@@almightyIrie Not gonna lie, KSP is not a traditional franchise that Take2 normally has an interest in. This marriage between the two companies was doomed from the start. They made the offer to buy the company in 2017 and the offer was accepted. You also have to blame Squad for getting in bed with Take2 and naively believing it was going to end well.

[@zerotheliger]

how about we just rip their code. its take two their servers aint that secure. host it in a country that dont care. and we can finish it. dead serious when i say their server security aint shit. take two doesnt deserve to have this ip anymore. time we start getting more aggressive with corpos.

[@zap117]

ever since the first studio was backstabbed i felt this game was dead

[@CakePrincessCelestia]

I felt it would be DOA ever since it was announced. KSP became so great because of the mods and KSP2 would have only had a chance if it came with a lot of stuff that was in the KSP1 mods, which it didn't.

[@Atlessa]

Which mods do you have in mind?

[@okankyoto]

They tried to hold the IP hostage over T2 and T2 called their bluff.

[@thecommenter9678]

Same, I knew it was going south at that very moment.

[@HisBortness]

Same. The sudden and rather odd change of dev teams in the middle of KSP1's lifetime was a massive red flag.

[@Ahibasabala]

The original Kerbal did so much for me, i'm not a smart man to quote forest gump, but because it was such a fun game, through sheer stubborness i eventually landed on the mun, got back home, landed on Duna (but never maaged to get back), i even built a space station and rendezvoused with it. it really built up my confidence, it's so sad the sequel didn't take the series to bigger and grander things, because if there were ever a game that deserved a good sequel, it was KSP.

[@moonasha]

KSP never needed a sequel, with mods it is almost a perfect game. Mod makers are still improving it today. In fact a lot would say the modded graphics in 1 are better than stock 2.

[@UdumbaraMusic]

Strange coincidence but I've been using Kerbal lately as a means to overcome a sudden drop in self-confidence. Really does give a sense of "I can do it if I put my mind to it" every time you hit a new milestone.

[@Hebdomad7]

Well you now know you can do difficult things if you put your mind to it. If you apply the lessons you learned in Kerbal to Real Life. You will go far in life. Best of luck out there.

[@Ahibasabala]

@@Hebdomad7 thank you, that's very kind

[@Ahibasabala]

@@UdumbaraMusic it really does, thanks for the kinds words

[@azedinelyakoubi7887]

I still remember the first time I saw the trailer for KSP 2. I was so hyped for it, even made a goal to update my PC when it came out. Biggest disappointment ever to see the terrible state the game is in now. Another victim of corporate greed, I guess, and another crushed dream for me

[@netshaman9918]

Same , but when i saw the Alpha state of the game sold and its price i didn't bought it . I believed that it was sold at least in an advanced beta state for the price .

[@elgerifico]

Corporate greed, yes, but the developers are not free of blame either. They've dropped the ball hard on this project and showed a hilarious degree of incompetence.

[@cc9277]

Same here. Devs paid gor t2 bad behavior

[@tomsmith7207]

Take two doesn’t care and only care when you ring their door bell end of day

[@AlexandruCarjan]

The trailer was clearly not a representation of how the game would look, even a blind person could tell that.

[@n3rdg4m3r]

They said they wanted to kill the kraken.... instead the kraken took their jobs.

[@12pentaborane]

I knew the kraken was powerful, didn't know it was trans-dimensional.

[@Hebdomad7]

​@@12pentaborane always has been.

[@raymondgabriel5724]

I for one bow down to our Kraken overlord.

[@pigeonpallz1733]

I'm glad I didn't spend money on this. A rule to live by, never spend more than 10 bucks on early access. Another is, if the current state of an early access game isn't to your liking don't buy in case it never improves. Only spend what you want to lose

[@CromemcoZ2]

I can't agree with the dollar limit. I spent $18 on KSP in early access and it was an incredible bargain for thousands of hours of entertainment. But your second rule is spot-on. When I spent that $18 I was satisfied with what I was getting right then for those dollars. That's always been one of my rules as well. KSP2 never reached that point, sadly. Every time I looked at it there were unacceptable game-breaking bugs that any decent QA team should have caught. The company clearly didn't care.

[@Pondimus_Maximus]

1) Boycott Take Two. 2) If you see Nate Simpson involved in a project, run the other way.

[@Hebdomad7]

I think Nate is getting too much flack for what happened. He knew the major things people wanted and he was passionate and cared about the project a lot. Publisher and higher ups forced recycling old code which horrifically burdened the project which massive amounts of technical debt. The refusal to allow communication between the original dev team was also insane. But yeah... Screw Take 2. They are amongst the industries worst.

[@nt78stonewobble]

@@Hebdomad7 I do think he was in over his head, for being head of the project, that doesn't mean he wouldn't have been good in a different position. Some of it, is his fault and some of it was not his fault and rather the fault of higher ups with overly ambitious plans, unclear goals etc.

[@radosawbrzezinski4161]

​@@Hebdomad7 all projects nate was involved in ended up as fuck ups, i didn't buy ksp2 because i knew what happened to planetary annihilation (other project nate was involved in)

[@Sundablakr]

I bet Nate didn't get shafted like the other studio employees either, bet he got a fat severance paycheck from Take Two and was told to shut up about it.

[@NeptuneTranscripts]

Nate Simpson isn't to blame. He's just the scapegoat. "Well, KSP2 is dead, so let's name the first person we see, whether he had anything to do with it or not." As shadow zone says, Nate was truly involved and wanted to make KSP2 as good as it could be. It's just that some of his decisions to that end -- Early Access, wobbly rockets, etc. were unpopular.

[@nikl.astrophoto]

Something that can't be emphasized enough is that they continue to not just sell the game in steam early access, they also sell it on their store and the humble store. All store pages advertise future features such as multiplayer, with no developer to actually add those features.

[@DM-kv9kj]

Companies all do this as standard practice now whenever they can, like with delaying refunds for ages unnecessarily etc. They accrue interest on other people's money before issuing refunds.

[@deelowe3]

So much good will squandered. All they needed to do was give the original devs agency, but that was to much to ask it seems

[@CaptConfusion71]

It's slimy to leave it on sale if the dev studio is shut down.

[@PostMortalForm]

It sure is, but you’d have to be a brain dead moron to buy it with all those negative reviews.

[@Sundablakr]

Not only did they leave it, they actively promoted it on the summer sale AFTER the studio was closed down.

[@youtubevanced4900]

The KSP2 release was always a cash grab to recoup funds before cancelling.

[@hackedbyBLAGH]

They focused on graphics instead of smooth gameplay. It was a choppy mess. They had the wrong vision for the game from the beginning.

[@okankyoto]

Over promised, under delivered. That even their promo gameplay material had a low framerate was a big red flag.

[@Yonkage-ik5qb]

Which is absolutely ridiculous because the entire POINT of KSP2 was building the game on a better engine so it would have better performance. Right away, I knew this would never work because you can't sell a game that is just a straight upgrade to a earlier game. The market demands a sequel be something "new" and "different". Even remasters commonly add new stuff or radically alter the graphics style to be more modern rather than cleaning up and smoothing over the older game.

[@StressKind]

​@@Yonkage-ik5qbthey promised colonies and interstellar stuff, that would have been really new.

[@grady631]

Old ksp looked like DOOOOOGSSSSHHHIIITTT and was poorly optimized but the game was fun and at the time the only one like it, and it did well, shows that you should add mechanics then looks

[@P_RK_NY8]

I hope someone sues this greedy company. This should be illegal.

[@DUBUND3AD]

Take Two has a pretty ruthless track record unfortunately, money above all /:

[@SOFFtv]

A few people in EU have already reported take2 for consumer malpractice.

[@Immortalcheese]

They've protected themselves by saying the game is still "in development" just doesn't have a studio right now

[@moonasha]

valve should do something at the very least. The early access system was clearly abused. Developers are supposed to only release a game for early access if they have the intention of completing it. In this case, the intention was only there if it made enough money, and it clearly didn't match 2K's unrealistic expectations. Wow, it sure is surprising that nobody bought an extremely buggy half finished game at full price. I really hope valve does something. Everyone who bought this piece of crap deserves a refund

[@skyjogger3256]

Sueing them will do nothing its a multibillion dollar corporation with some extremely high paid lawyers and they probably have the judges paid off. Sure they might spend a bit of money defending the lawsuit but to what end reminder they make 3 billion a year off shark cards so the 20 million dollar of so settlement that would co.e from this is less that 1% of take twos yearly income barley a fucking speed bump.

[@shivan2418]

Whoever runs Take2 has never heard of Goodwill. This is so fucking short sighted.

[@okankyoto]

Apparently they were basically pumping money into a hole considering it was so delayed. They really hired the wrong team composition (few software engineers) and shot themselves in the foot.

[@Bourinos02]

To be fair, the devs were clearly not up to the task. Even when we give them the most benefit of the doubt i.e. they started working on KSP2 when they released it into early access (which isn't such a far stretch when you see what 4 years of development did from the 2019 demo and the "EA" release) in 14 months they didn't manage to make a workable game. Which is to put in perspective to what happened with a single unexperienced dev in KSP1...

[@nt78stonewobble]

@@Bourinos02 Iirc. they changed development company, they kept the project secret and couldn't hire anyone really that knew anything about ksp1, despite wanting to reuse code from it. Then they had to rewrite a lot of the stuff. The goals were unclear and shifting. Covid hit at some point. But... the early access of KSP2 contained a helluva lot more game than the first early access of KSP1, which didn't even have any objects to even fly to.

[@Bourinos02]

@@nt78stonewobble No, I don't buy these excuses that don't make any sense and are coming from someone financially tied to KSP2. It was always supposed to be from scratch, all of that was pre-EA launch where some excuses might be somewhat valid. After EA the lies just appeared in plain sight. No polishing happened because no features were there in the first place. As for the comparison with KSP1, I have no clue why would you bring this to the table. It took a single unexperienced dev to go from literally 0 lines of code to 0.15 the same time it took a fully funded "professional" team to release 1 content patch and 3 fix patches to a game where they copied most of the work from KSP1 and yet couldn't make it work properly. If you compare it to the same development timeline i.e. KSP2 development started at the absolute latest in 2019, it's day and night difference as KSP1 went from nothing to fully featured, fully functional game in the same timeframe.

[@nt78stonewobble]

@@Bourinos02 " No, I don't buy these excuses that don't make any sense and are coming from someone financially tied to KSP2." Well, it might be true or it might not be, the fact is that you don't know. "It was always supposed to be from scratch, all of that was pre-EA launch where some excuses might be somewhat valid. After EA the lies just appeared in plain sight. No polishing happened because no features were there in the first place." That's not consistent with what the shadowzone video mentions. "As for the comparison with KSP1, I have no clue why would you bring this to the table. It took a single unexperienced dev to go from literally 0 lines of code to 0.15 the same time it took a fully funded "professional" team to release 1 content patch and 3 fix patches to a game where they copied most of the work from KSP1 and yet couldn't make it work properly. If you compare it to the same development timeline i.e. KSP2 development started at the absolute latest in 2019, it's day and night difference as KSP1 went from nothing to fully featured, fully functional game in the same timeframe." Because people are simply misrepresenting how long it took to develop ksp1 into an actual game, add features, fix bugs etc. KSP1 initial early access release: "v0.7.3 Released June 24th, 2011 Initial Release Notable Features Downloaded over 5000 times No SAS, although SAS module is implemented and generates torque The only engine, the LV-T30 can only be fed by one FL-T500 attached on its top The AV-R8 Winglet is just a fin and can't be used to control the vehicle It is nearly impossible to achieve orbit Kerbin is the only celestial object, does not rotate, and is a mirror reflection of the example planet from libnoise The sun is a directional light source at infinite distance The render distance is only 1500 km, and Kerbin will "sink" into the sky background, vanishing entirely as that altitude is achieved The original Intercontinental Kraken had not been fixed (Moving far from the KSC will result in shaking and even Rapid Unplanned Disassembly due to floating-point precision loss.)" Fact is, that unlike KSP1, the first publicly available release of KSP2 did include an entire solar system to go to and relatively functional basic gameplay.

[@pHappyfeet]

In my opinion KSP 2 shouldn't have even happened. They should have just supported the first game continuously updating and adding more, like Minecraft.

[@tehice23]

You heared of Kraken, right? That is becouse Ksp1 code is streched af, aint stable and this prevents expansions. Hell, you can't even add inclinations to planets without breaking everything. Its amazing it works so well as it dose. Discutions about necessity of rewriting or sequel is a decade old. Mind that ksp1 didnt start with an end goal in mind, it was just a fun project. Hell, before 1st version rolled out, it was in 2D 😄

[@ryansgametime2146]

Imagine Minecraft 2 💀

[@DocHuckleberry09]

“Shameful” is the best word to describe the situation

[@hantorfolezproductions4402]

Intercept games, formerly known as Uber Entertainment, formerly known as Planetary Annihilation Inc, still have yet to ever finish a product they've sold

[@Merudiana-the-local-demoness]

Okay, but…Planetary Annihilation is a pretty fun RTS. A bit standard, but still fun.

[@hewhosayszonk]

@@Merudiana-the-local-demoness I backed PA from Kickstarter, I really wanted to love it, but although it had a lot of neat ideas, it fell a long way short of TA and Supcom.

[@fatcat2546]

That is a bit harsh on PA. Its been too long for me to clearly remember what was first promised, but it seems to me that that was pretty satisfactorily finished. Just perhaps not as good of execution as fans hoped. It is still a solid game.

[@hewhosayszonk]

@@fatcat2546 I would agree with that, I think it met what they promised, it just didn't reach the lofty heights I hoped for.

[@andrewhofmann5453]

For it to still be on sale @ Steam, that's fraud by definition...

[@xrion236]

High price EA was the first sign of things being off.

[@DasIllu]

Take Two only accomplished that a lot of people will never again throw even a cent in their general direction. When the early excess (sic!) release hit the storefront, the writing was already on the wall. I knew it would fail from the that point on and never gave them my money. Not so much a self fulfilling prophecy, but an IP born out of passion cast into the molds of a billion dollar company that only cares about nickel and diming their customers. It wouldn't have surprised me if Take Two would have charged you for rocket fuel in an in game shop.

[@okankyoto]

Should they have continued to fund the game that was years behind its promised timeline and wasn't making much money on top of this? They gave them a lot longer leash than I thought they would have, and PD wasn't able to deliver more than the most basic stuff after several years.

[@Monarky777]

I have a list of publishers and game studios I don't buy early access from.

[@grit9938]

I'll still buy T2 products. They release some of the best games out there. The only thing they did wrong was give Intercept too much leeway to careen out of control on unobtainable goals.

[@clintonleonard5187]

​@Monarky777 Me too - all of them

[@barral69]

It's 20$ off right now, but IT'S STILL FOR SALE! There has to be something illegal about selling an abandoned/closed EA game....

[@ZlothZloth]

Well, selling it without announcing on the page that it's abandoned.

[@jesusramirezromo2037]

It's fine to sell an abandoned game, But they should disclose it's no longer supported

[@MetallicMedium]

Game company shuts down right after a big money grab... who does that remind you of?

[@Immortalcheese]

Literally every triple-A studio that absorbs a smaller studio. NEVER under any circumstance buy a triple-A game again or ever support a consumed studio. Just don't. It has never ended well

[@Brixxter]

Would have been a pretty terrible money grab if so. They never even got close to breaking even on this mess.

[@braedan51]

I came THIS close to buying KSP2 over the weekend....so glad I didnt!

[@carlbox398]

Lets make a class action lawsuit now and force the game to be made open source so the fans and FIRED devs can finish it!

[@oasntet]

There's zero legal standing to force a company to release the codebase to a closed-source videogame. You'd have a far better chance (still nearly zero) of doing a fundraiser to buy the codebase and IP from T2.

[@jaywerner8415]

You know that's not how the Law Works right? You can sue them by all means go for it, but can't FORCE them to release the source code for their game. I don't even think theirs a Legel President or case where that was a thing.

[@hherpdderp]

Eidos did it with Warzone 2100. After a fan petition though. Not a lawsuit

[@L8ugh1ngm8n1]

Thing is T2 could recover things by doing this. 1). T2 acknowledge the nonsense and remove the roadmap and all the BS surrounding future updates 2). T2 apologies to the community 3). Cut the price of KSP2 to a value that reflects the actual content of the game, Max £10 at best. 4). Release the source code and let the talented community do what it does best. I don't really see what benefit T2 has by holding the source code anyway, from what I've seen and read KSP2's source code is just a patchwork of KSP1 code rather than a desperately needed full update 5). T2 sit back and keep quiet about KSP, if they really want another go at it try again in a few years time and do the job right or sell the IP to someone else and let them do the job right. As it stands right now KSP under T2 is dead, no one will trust anything they say or do with the IP in the future, follow the steps above and there is a chance they could rebuild a bit of the trust that has been lost in the IP.

[@nitehawk86]

Steam Early Access is for suckers. A game like this 10 years ago simply would have never been released after being cancelled. People would be disappointed but not leaving people betrayed. A game with a major publisher going into Early Access is a straight up scam.

[@handle1928]

Proper early access is great for developing but it looks like the goal for early access now is to get paid early and that results in lack of incentive for completing development.

[@atigerclaw]

This video reminded me I needed to go add yet another downvote review to the pile on Steam. No one should be paying $40 or $50 for abandonware.

[@TNM001]

one of those "told you so" that break my heart, but tbf, nobody should be surprised. the only sad part is that the license is now stored away in a drawer for a long time.

[@clintonleonard5187]

A good dev doesn't need the license to just make a spiritual successor. It could basically be a straight clone with different characters. There is no copyright on space sims.

[@newtonianpineapple2817]

Take two is laughing at us.

[@cc9277]

And we will laughing at gta6 when it was release with skydrow beacause after they break the security it will free the fps

[@jerk_store]

Wait until they release GTA VI. TakeTwo will be laughing even more. There's too many sheep out there. You know, the same one's who buy 90 series card from NVIDIA every time there's a new one.

[@wiktorwektor123]

At you, I'm not buying early access games or do preorders for at least a decade.

[@torgrim123]

It's dead Jim.

[@Fred-rv2tu]

Sad McCoy noises.

[@scotthoover1568]

Steam needs to remove this scam from their store ASAP. If they don't, they complicit in scamming their customers.

[@ugib8377]

A lot of people thought KSP2 was going to pull a lot of players away from Space Engineers. Looks like that's not an issue anymore. This is a pretty crummy situation. Especially because they are discounting it on the summer sale. I feel like it's just a ploy to pull in as much revenue that they can, to try to recoup some of the finances that were lost by developing a game that went DOA.

[@11matt555]

They aren't really the same thing though. I mean I like space engineers as well, but it scratches a different itch than KSP.

[@ugib8377]

@@11matt555 I agree. I do know I saw a lot of stuff on the SE forums however, suggesting that KSP2 was going to syphon a ton of people away from SE. When I do play, I play Keen servers for PVP. So I suppose I am moderately happy to not have the player drain everyone thought was coming. Sucks for the engineers behind KSP2 though, and the fans of the first game...

[@ZlothZloth]

A lot of people thought Star Citizen would pull a lot of people away from X:Rebirth, too.

[@tgfkacalvinh0806]

And that's how i lost €50 because i believed in the game and the devs, never gonna do that again😫

[@oasntet]

Request a refund. Keep requesting it; Valve are granting refunds for users well past the 2-hour limit, and they're just going to be more and more flexible on this the longer T2 maintains silence on the matter.

[@spugelo359]

@@oasntet Probably not good idea to request a refund just yet and let the situation cook a bit for better chance of a refund. But worst of all, Valve is probably the one that would foot the cost for that refund.

[@oasntet]

@@spugelo359 I doubt Valve would foot the bill; if Take2 wants to keep selling stuff through Steam, they're going to need to do whatever Valve asks. What's more, Valve probably already has a big pile of Take2's money sitting in an account somewhere on a 90-day float basis for exactly this sort of situation.

[@Sundablakr]

Just get it back, they are violating both Steam's Early Access agreement AND European consumer law. You're perfectly entitled to that money back.

[@tgfkacalvinh0806]

I think i will do what Oasntet said wait it out a little and when it 100% is a lost cause i will try to get that refund. But still a shame was really looking forward to the future of this game

[@thomasscroggs3080]

Note that Double Fine studios did the same thing a few years ago.

[@pktrsho6055]

Another case for not paying for early access or pre-ordering.

[@Schicksal0]

just do a 5 min research about the game before buy. It has so many red flags that I did not bought it even tho KSP 1 is my most played game on steam.

[@bigbangerz5856]

Surprised they haven’t tried to sell rocket motors for Arx 😂

[@support2587]

Ouch.

[@alphatt_1]

lmao

[@ivanputignef2418]

Or pictures of them for thousands of $!

[@EstrellaViajeViajero]

The problem I've heard is that Take Two is trying to sell the game IP as if it were almost finished (for tens of millions of dollars to recoup their losses) - but no studio can afford to pay Take Two's asking price and have enough money left over for the staff and years of development it would take to finish it.

[@hherpdderp]

To bad they can't open source it. That's what eidos did with Warzone 2100. 20 years later and that game is still being updated and runs on everything.

[@anorax001]

FWIW Rocketwerkz - the developers of Icarus - are in the process of developing their own space simulation title and are currently hiring for that project.

[@Asd-1474]

Wait, wasn't icarus a flop? Idk.

[@MiraRK69]

Well, thank you for video, but actual subject, as I predict, is going to be pretty depressive... KSP always was one of the most loved games. =( But this is actually what happens when a "wealthily companies" grab "perspective product" in their hands - they're just massacre it. Capitalism in nutshell.

[@ivanputignef2418]

This was easy for me. "Early access" to me is just a different spelling for "Ignore until release". The whole concept is so widely accepted as common practice that many just exploit it to grab cash because there are little repercussions.

[@DrrZed]

I had a bad feeling way back when KSP1 was acquired by Take 2.

[@baslifico]

There isn't a serious buyer in the world who wouldn't go through a due diligence process, and that process couldn't fail to find all the posts about how this has been handled.

[@Pystro]

Taking an early access game's performance to judge the interest in a full version has it's problems. People are not always buying it depending on what it will eventually be (or is promised to become). I bet a good portion decide on a purchase based on what the game can do at the time. * Maybe the publishers should offer deals like "give us 5 bucks now, get a 20 buck discount once the game is officially released". Or "get early access, which we revoke at the release date, but you get the option to buy the game with a 20 buck discount then, and also you pay half as much as buying the non-ending early access license". That would decouple the "play a crap version of the game you actually want and be part of the development" part from showing commitment to the game (by "voting with your dollar" - just 5 or 10 of them dollars instead of 40). * And compared to KSP1, KSP2 had better graphics and controls, but it lacked in stability (the devs supercharged the Kraken instead of killing it) and in features (it's just hard to compete with a game that had mods made for it for a decade or more.) - at least that's why I've heard and seen. I would have not bought KSP2 (and don't currently have the PC for KSP1), but once it offered 75% of a typical modded KSP1's functionality, then I would probably have skipped right to KSP2.

[@crackerbarrel6965]

Another “early access” game that people pod for that will never make it out of “early access”. Some games on Steam seem to be perpetually in “early access” like many of the titles within the DCS franchise.

[@snickle1980]

Havent felt a game related sense of loss like this since the 2008 release of Spore. Never forgive.

[@TheLobstersoup]

The game industry has become a disgusting pit of monetarisation. If they can earn more money with something else, companies will drop projects in an instance.

[@okankyoto]

T2 had been funding it for years past its originally promised release date... its not even about monetization, its more that they were losing a ton of money and the devs could barely put out a science patch after several years.

[@oasntet]

Yeah, it's not even about earning more money with something else, it was about plugging the giant bleeding financial wound that was KSP2 development. Their main fault was not shutting it down three years earlier; then they'd have had three years to find a dev studio they could actually see eye-to-eye on for the scope of work and funding, or just kill the whole thing before the public got involved.

[@Cruzz999]

Never bought it. Didn't trust Nate's "vision". Saw the shit state of the pre-EA-release event, realized it would need many years to be worth anything. Heard they weren't even going to do a proper career mode, lost more faith in it. Hoped it would get better, but never really believed it would. Glad I didn't waste my money.

[@Youxitube]

Hey @obsidianant for videos like this referencing documents and articles can you please link those sources in the description?

[@makotones]

Aways buy a game for what It IS, not for what u Hope It Will become

[@janedoe4586]

wish squad would never sold out and stayed independent

[@j-ray17]

Why is anyone acting like this is a surprise??? This was evident from day one folks!!

[@FSDraconis]

KSP2 developers were on a contract. Then after they put in all of their assets to deliver on that contract. The company that issued the contract then canceled the contract. Then that company attempted to purchase the developers out from beneath them when they were broke. It was sinister and vile.

[@ivolol]

I feel like KSP2 starting out in early access was the T2 suits cottoning onto the development troubles, and telling the devs "alright launch this in a year, and show us a bright high-sales upward trajectory, or we'll pull the plug". And then the obvious happened. Still couldn't wriggle out of all the development hell that quagmired the development from the start. As much as having smart T2 suits who could spot the trouble in the beginning would've been much better, I still can't really lay a lot of righteous blame at them for cutting such a shambles of a project. At some point it would become a mirror of all the recent Disney media productions - untold millions of dollars thrown at hilariously mediocre end products. Given Shadowzone's revelation that they actually decided to branch off KSP1 code for "speed of development" (insert comically long laughter here), when I was SURE they would be starting clean-slate to get rid of the mountains of tech debt in KSP1, I'm not even optimistic about another team restarting development off the same code base if it got acquired. That would still be a recipe for disaster if they tried to continue it, or I guess leave another gaping time-hole if they decided to wipe it and start fresh (although probably the necessary correct decision). We've already seen that the current KSP2 codebase seemingly cannot stand up to large part-count ships, which is one of the key upgrades people would imagine for a new KSP.

[@FailedSquare]

this is the actual reason i never pre-ordered ksp2. i purchased multiple copies of the original happily. But I just had a feeling about KSP2 when it was announced. Its a real bummer

[@AlexandruCarjan]

They day they first announced KSP 2 I knew it was not going to be what they showed it would. The cinematics looked nothing like the actual game when released, they didn't release it how they announced they would and they didn't do anything from their road map. I am so glad I didn't go with the bandwagon on this game. I knew from the start it would fail

[@ToreDL87]

To the surprise of absolutely nobody.

[@sladehelicoptersgaming3148]

I don’t buy early access since no man’s sky , I really wanted this game glad I waited

[@lethalbydefault]

Not only was it discounted, it was featured on the front page of the Steam Summer Sale. That's pretty ridiculous and unacceptable.

[@youtubevanced4900]

I’m so glad I managed to get a refund from steam. Took me three attempts to get approved but eventually they granted the refund.

[@oasntet]

Yeah, this is only going to get easier in the near future. If T2 doesn't actually have a team working on updates, Valve are going to side with complaining customers more and more, potentially to the point of axing the store page entirely and refunding everybody. Valve aren't angels, but the amount it would cost them to refund everybody is a tiny, tiny drop in the bucket, and they get to punish T2 in the process.

[@matthewgrutzmacher224]

Same. Took a few tries but I got it

[@BernardoPC117]

Can I ask what reasons you used? mine got rejected

[@youtubevanced4900]

@@BernardoPC117 yep. I’ll post my exact request when I get a chance. In about an hour. I kept a copy before posting for this reason.

[@matthewgrutzmacher224]

@@BernardoPC117 they said no a few times so I wrote a lengthy and direct message about how the game was not up to steam standards and they were violating there own policy. I also pointed out that they cannot charge for future features and I just wanted my money as credit so I can get something playable. Last I told them I would respond with a lawyer if they said no again. Be direct but not rude . Hope this helps

[@brandonstouffer]

I would not be surprised if this was the entire plan from the beginning. KSP is such a niche that Take-Two could fund the game a little bit, put it in early access, and the people who would buy it are the die hard fans, which is a majority of the audience of a game of this type. Once they got all the money, there was no more profit to be made. Yes, If multiplayer came out some people could probably get their friends to by a copy, but their projections probably showed this wasn’t the case, or it wasn’t profitable enough. They put up a billboard, collected money, and left before anything of value was built.

[@aggonzalezdc]

I could see a closure ending an early access game. That is part of the early access rollercoaster. But selling a game you know you won't be complete is wrong. Sadly, this is far from the only example, and Steam should step in to stop sales of defunct early access games.

[@GermanEnigma]

"Houston, we have a problem."

[@hobsonster]

One of the most frustrating things in my attempt to play was how rovers simply didn’t work. They couldn’t steer at all.

[@support2587]

Stop selling this pile and give us refunds Steam, we knew going in it was early access but they defrauded people with their promotional videos and promises. My son tried for three hours to play this back at initial release and has been patiently waiting for fixes, three hours but because he's past 2 weeks NO REFUNDS. You where told back then that this thing was unplayable and when nothing improved Steam, you should have stepped in and supported your customers.

[@jaywerner8415]

If you keep trying someone might give you a refund. The 2hour/2weeks thing is only for the Automated system. Keep trying and SOMEONE at Value should manually process the request.

[@matthewgrutzmacher224]

Keep trying. Tell them the game does not meet their own standards and you will be contacting a lawyer. That worked for me.. don’t ask nicely but do t be rude

[@bugz000]

.... and reason #23149 why 2005->2015 was the golden age of gaming, i've not played a single game released after this date

[@charlesm.1638]

So sad, I was looking forward to the many updates.

[@EnDSchultz1]

When the game was billed as having colonies and interstellar travel I was expecting a game with a new technical foundation that overcame the scaling limitations that largely prevented such things in the original. When I saw the Kraken was still alive and well and performance with large vessels was almost unplayable, I knew the game was DOA and could never surpass the original.

[@Secretsofsociety]

Like many failed businesses their budget did not match their aspiration.

[@StatueSounds]

The community should get together and try purchasing the IP of Kerbal. Open source the project and let the community fix it.

[@yahdood6015]

cool. Another space game I won’t get to experience. First odyssey, now this. F in the chat

[@patricklewis7636]

Play KSP1. It's a perfectly fine game that actually WORKS.

[@Canzandridas]

The OG KSP is superior in literally every way. And in those that you might argue it isn't... mods

[@patricklewis7636]

@Canzandridas not being able to use hall effect thrusters or switch away from something burning up in the atmosphere are issues. I've had countless bases ground slammed and stations wobble to death. Let's not go nuts.

[@N3gativeR3FLUX]

@@patricklewis7636 Struts are a way to fix the kraken [wobbling to death]

[@PraetorianAU]

So have any of your learnt your lesson yet? Stop buying early access games and don't even buy it once it's released unless it's got some good reviews.

[@onyxwaltz8140]

And this is why the model where games are released early and without content like cities skylines 2 is so risky. Early access without the label.

[@donchaput8278]

Would probably be faster to start KSP3 than bring in a new crew to dig through KSP2 and fix it. Really sad about this. Had been waiting for a long time and upgraded my PC just for this game.

[@thexlonewolf671]

Take 2 was very insistent on controlling the marketing narrative from the beginning, and it ultimately blew up in their faces. In refusing to accept even a little bad press, they ended up having to deal with a lot more than just a little. I know why they shut down Intercept, the game barely broke even on Steam, and a lot of the delay and ballooning development costs can be attributed to the creative director having pretty much uncontested control over the project, but none of this excuses T2’s absolute radio silence.

[@DeilGrist]

I'm interested in KSP 2, but not willing to keep funding games in early access. Hopefully developers pick it back up again, because the footage in this video is gorgeous.

[@s0lly]

Would you support a KSP like game being developed? Like exposure etc. Assuming it had legs

[@Mars-l9b]

I highly doubt they'll put a new team of developers on this, they already sunk a lot of money on it, so basically they're just trying to milk it as much as they can. I can't imagine anyone wanting to buy into it either considering the development hell it's been in. Nor do I think anyone is willing to buy the IP anymore after this debacle.. it's sad, but I think this really is the end of anything KSP officially.. maybe there might be some sort of fan based initiative to carry the legacy on (like OpenTTD did for TTD).

[@poposterous236]

I admire your optimism. A game that started with the wrong team, had an awful launch, staff cuts and a basic death sentence... 'Limbo' is a generous word. Even if the game picks up development again they'll never reach the heights of the first game (figuratively and literally). The management responsible for KSP2 should stick to mobile games and crypto scams.

[@doctor7836]

These types of situation would be a lot less of an issue if studios would release the source code for a game that they no longer intend to support. This is also necessary for preservation purposes.

[@becksvideoproductions]

I feel conflicted. On one hand I am wondering if the current build is good to play with the features in, in which case I would like to buy it. On the other hand, I don't want to support this kind of practice, but giving them my money....

[@mariusg8824]

My friend has it. It's basically unplayable. Way too many bugs. In a simulation like that even one miscalculation can trash your whole mission, and it regularly does. It also has a lot less features than KSP1, so buying it makes no sense, except it is a lot prettier.

[@Aggravath]

This is why I torrent games, can't steal me if I steal you first!😁

[@ReallyVirtual]

They can't make any comments. If they do, they open themselves up to mis-selling (or misrepresentation in the Uk). That will open the flood gates for people asking for their money back. It's better for them to stay completely quiet. I for one will be seeking money back as the game was sold with interstellar travel, colonies and multiplayer. None of which have been delivered. Instead, we get a game that only has a sub-set of KSP1's functionality. Early Access was designed for indie devs to get them off the ground. It should not be used by multi-billion dollar companies. KSP2 will be my last ever early access game.

[@borisboris8702]

Its rather a sad end for KSP (for now) I'm one of the original backers of KSP all those years ago when Havester always posted that theres every chance that the new edition of KSP could also be its last. But the game went from strength to strength, even if some of us could never get a SSTO spaceplane to work, we wobbled our way around Jool, lithobraked on Duna and wondered if we'd remembered parachutes this time. When KSP2 was announced , all of us went "YEAH!" and stuck it on the steam wishlist...... and then the day arrived.... £45 for an early access game? come on you have to be kidding? Nope..... and then the reviews....... even more wobbly than a wobbly thing going wobble, a frame rate measured in minutes, some nice looking GFX though... but that price..... that price... And it never came down, major features that were promised 'delayed' or 'missing' , a change in developer..... something was wrong in private division and it smelt worse than bob's spacesuit after a 9 month mission. and then the layoff notice.. So for now, us old time KSp'ers hope that the IP is just resting and not dead.... and vaguely hope that someone can buy it from take 2 and make it go vooom again. Lets hope. (because I've still got the money waiting for a decent KSP2 game)

[@sleeming88]

It's so frustrating to see my three favorite PC game titles from the 2010s treated like this by greedy and/or incompetent publishers. First there's Paradox seemingly determined to destroy Cities: Skylines and Prison Architect and now this 😔

[@newtonianpineapple2817]

I think this is intentional. Promise big things, develop enough so most people play more than two hours, then fire the whole studio and cash out.

[@nikolatasev4948]

Early access is not a bad thing - it worked wonders for KSP 1. The difference was that it was fun and playable from the start, even with a total of 5 parts. I fondly remember landing on the Mun - before landing legs were added, before the map view and maneuver nodes. And it was free for a long time. Nobody expected it to print money at the time. It was a passion project, and it showed. Currently KSP 1 is buggy, and it seems KSP2 is pretty unplayable. They missed the idea of Early Access - you need to have a fun, playable game, that builds excitement and that you build upon.

[@SomeRandomGuy121]

Who needed KSP2 when KSP is out already..?! Same experience aswell. KSP filled the hole for most, indefinitely.

[@newtonianpineapple2817]

8:00 I have to disagree. It's over. They took the money and ran.

[@oasntet]

Source? To be clear, there's no money to run away with. It's already been spent, many times over, on the salaries of the developers.

[@Vlamyncksken]

​@@oasntet imagine being this naïve

[@oasntet]

@@Vlamyncksken It's simple math. Seven years of dev salaries vs a couple million dollars in sales. There's no money left. It was in the hole long before EA, but it never managed to climb out of that hole.

[@Vlamyncksken]

@@oasntet Hmm, fair. Though it seems like a blatant theft nonetheless. I was super hyped and followed dev updates religiously pre-release. It's just shameful what's become of it

[@oasntet]

@@Vlamyncksken Well, that part I'd agree with. But we're only sad because the first game did so much with so little, so it seemed like a sequel developed with so many more resources should be amazing. But the reality is that most software projects fail. Videogames are a weird exception with a higher success rate, but KSP is also weird enough to be an exception to that exception.

[@SpartanGIS2]

The fact that this game is still on sale on steam is a surprise. Not sure why steam hasn't pulled it already from purchase.

[@noakespg]

Time for them to make this open source. They already got paid for it - let the community fix what is broken and make it reach its full potential!

[@thecommenter9678]

Not even a shock. I knew this would happen the moment i heard about the bull***t that happened behind the scenes at the start.

[@tommacpherson9456]

This game was amazing and i spent hours trying to fix physics with more and more rockets. Imagine how cool this game would be if this just got opened up and given to the modding community. It doesn't work that way but dreams are free

[@jaywerner8415]

I'm surprised Steam hasn't taken the game down from being SOLD since the whole dev team got sacked. (like it still would have a steam page, but you just can't BUY it) Its truely is a STRANGE world we live in where a Early Access game with NO DEV TEAM, is ON SALE. GABE DO SOMETHING!!!!

[@darwinism8181]

I'm pretty sure they'll at least try to get some people onboard to slap a coat of paint onto it for a 'we're out of Early Access!' sale at some point. At least heavily modded KSP will always be there for me.

[@vanderaj]

After the Odyssey launch debacle, I learned my lesson to never buy early access games. I'm glad FDev stuck with it to fix all the issues with the game, and it's finally in a good spot again, but they harmed their own reputation so much with early access and releasing so before it was really ready. Same deal with KSP 2. At least, now I can add Take 2 to the list of "never buy anything from them ever again" ... even released games. IMHO, it's unethical - at best - to leave it on sale while they are doing whatever they are doing behind the scenes. Once Take Two has worked out what's happening, Steam should force them to refund all existing early-access customers if it's truly going to be dead.

[@RKOzza]

Shocking this. They talked such a big game. Didnt they talk about deep space travel and a universe that keep generating new areas?

[@regentmad1037]

yeah Squad needs to simply create KSP Mk.2 and make it the sequal. but make it an "ADD ON" to the original for a full price. only it's a completely new KSP

[@variellyta817]

Take 2 holds onto the IP, and we all find that GTA 7 releases as Grand Theft Astronaut.

[@Hailfire08]

I feel like they only kicked it out into early access as it was because it was three years late, and then when people didn't immediately think it was the best thing since sliced bread and when improving it was slow, they killed it.

[@NfCTank]

They were asking $90 here for day 1 early access, so i never bought it, felt like a scam at that price given the lack of content compared to ksp1 of $30 back when, so figured id wait until 1.0 at that price.